MOST Rust Converters Are A JOKE! Let Me Show You. (Eastwood, KBS, Corroseal, Ospho & More)
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2024
- Most Rust Converters Are A JOKE! Today we are testing rust converters. We are testing Rust Kutter, Rust Eater, Ospho, VHT, Eastwood, KBS, Corroseal, Loctite, Rustoleum. Each product will be testing on light surface rust as well as heavier rust to see how well each product functions as a rust converter.
We will be testing each rust converter for bond strength, chip resistance, and flexibility. The results that I got from this testing were rather disappointing. The bond strength of most of these "primers" was terrible. The best results came from the products that had high concentrations of phosphoric acid.
Products used in this video:
Rust Kutter: amzn.to/3deOHjH
Rust Eater: amzn.to/2ZQhMi8
Ospho: amzn.to/3xQ4peB
VHT: amzn.to/3xUhEKZ
Corroseal: amzn.to/3rvJL28
Loctite: amzn.to/3Dnq6DC
Rustoleum: amzn.to/3okblgB
KBS: amzn.to/2ZXs1S0
My Amazon Store: www.amazon.com/shop/repairgeek
Help support the channel, buy using my Amazon links
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases and your cost is exactly the same.
I source all of my service data from the same place that professional shops do. You can as well: www.pntrac.com/t/SENKSUZKRktD...
Questions? Shoot me an email at repairgeek365@gmail.com
00:00 Intro
1:04 How my testing was preformed
2:24 Types of tests I will be running
3:55 Aerosol Rust Converters
7:12 Brush on Rust Converters
9:16 Phosphoric Acid Rust Converters
11:32 Heavy Rust testing
13:58 Final Thoughts
Disclaimer:
The information, demonstration and any content contained in this video is for informational purposes only. The user Repair Geek makes no warranty, express or implied, regarding the effectiveness or safety of the contents of this video. In no way should the contents of the video, including the tools used, be repeated or tried by anyone. Viewers should only seek the help of a trained professional located at a licensed auto repair shop for any fix, modification, alteration, or any change to their vehicle. Repair Geek shall not be liable for any injury, damage, or loss to any person or property that may result from use of the tools, equipment, or any content contained in this video. In addition, there is no way to guarantee that the video is not altered or modified or is not in the final form submitted by Repair Geek and therefore, Repair Geek does not warrant that the video is unaltered or not modified. The links on this video to products are for informational purposes only and in no way are an endorsement of the safety or effectiveness of the particular product. Viewers understand that anything contained in this video or linked to or from this video is the sole responsibility of the viewer and in no way provides an express or implied warranty as to the safety or effectiveness of any linked tool, product, or video. Therefore, viewer agrees to release, waive, and discharge Repair Geek or anyone affiliated with Repair Geek, from any and all liability, claims, demands, actions, and causes of action whatsoever arising out of or related to any loss, damage, or injury, including death, that may be sustained by the viewer, or to any property belonging to viewer, regardless of whether the loss is linked to the use of the contents of this video, or otherwise and regardless of whether such liability arises in tort, contract, strict liability, or otherwise, to the fullest extent allowed by law. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Products used in this video:
Rust Kutter: amzn.to/3deOHjH
Rust Eater: amzn.to/2ZQhMi8
Ospho: amzn.to/3xQ4peB
VHT: amzn.to/3xUhEKZ
Corroseal: amzn.to/3rvJL28
Loctite: amzn.to/3Dnq6DC
Rustoleum: amzn.to/3okblgB
KBS: amzn.to/2ZXs1S0
My Amazon Store: www.amazon.com/shop/repairgeek
Help support the channel, buy using my Amazon links
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases and your cost is exactly the same.
Use benjamin moore rust arrestor
i've been using krud cutter form walmart in the gallon, brush on. got it based on word of mouth reviews. wonder how it would do. i skimmed this video. also i once sand blasted and brushed the krud cutter on over all teeny tiny pin holes that the glass bead could not reach.
Dude adhesion test? Regardless of what you use, even paint, primer or whatever. The surface has to be prepped. The thing is rust converters chemicaly changes the rust. The prime goal is to stop rusting. Not some adhesion or chip test due to impacts. Most everything would fail.
The Rustoelum Rust Reformer paint no longer has tannic acid. Now it is more like an "etching primer" with zinc and an acid to activate the zinc. Acetone 67-64-1 25-50 GHS02-GHS07 H225-319-332-336
Propane 74-98-6 10-25 GHS04 H280
n-Butyl Acetate 123-86-4 10-25 GHS02-GHS07 H226-336
n-Butane 106-97-8 2.5-10 GHS04 H280
Hydrous Magnesium Silicate 14807-96-6 2.5-10 Not Available Not Available
Xylenes (o-, m-, p- Isomers) 1330-20-7 2.5-10 GHS02-GHS07 H226-315-319-332
Dimethyl Carbonate 616-38-6 2.5-10 GHS02-GHS06 H225-331
Hydrotreated Light Distillate 64742-47-8 1.0-2.5 GHS08 H304
Carbon Black 1333-86-4 0.1-1.0 Not Available Not Available
Ethylbenzene 100-41-4 0.1-1.0 GHS02-GHS07-
GHS08 H225-304-332-351-373
Naphtha (Petroleum), Heavy Aromatic 64742-94-5 0.1-1.0 GHS07-GHS08 H304-332
Solvent Naphtha, Light Aromatic 64742-95-6 0.1-1.0 GHS07-GHS08 H304-332
Zinc Phosphate 7779-90-0 0.1-1.0 Not Available Not Available
Sulfonic Acids, petroleum, calcium salts, overbased 68783-96-0 0.1-1.0 GHS06 H330
Zinc Oxide 1314-13-2 0.1-1.0 Not Available Not Available
Methyl Ethyl Ketoxime 96-29-7 0.1-1.0 GHS05-GHS06-
GHS07-GHS08
H302-312-315-317-318-331-336
-350-370-373
1,2,4,5-Tetramethylbenzene
@@cdoublejj
Brush? You can spray it on like windex.
The only product I've used in Canada is a rust converter made by Rust Check. It's a phosphoric acid formula with the consistency of water that can be brushed or sprayed. It does convert iron oxide (rust) to ferric phosphate. Once converted the actual ferric phosphate does not rust...it's chemically impossible. Re-rusting occurs when the product fails to convert all the rust and rust is left behind. Re-rusting also occurs when barriers are breached allowing moisture and oxygen to reach the virgin metal under the ferric phosphate, so it's the virgin metal rusting this time. When a rust converter is applied to rust, the converter must remain wet for a period of time to allow the formula to soak into the rust all the way to the bare virgin metal. Applying a rust converter just as a film on top of rust has little or no value. Start by removing as much visible rust as humanly possible or reasonable by grinding, wire wheels, sanding or your preferred method. Apply the first coat of rust converter as an indicator tool. When it converts and turns the remaining rust black and it's now more visible, now it's time to sand, grind and remove as much of the black converted ferric phosphate as possible. For auto body panel repair, use a Dremel tool with a precision grinding bit to attack as many remaining black specs that you can, like the dentist does a root canal with his drills. Now you should have shinny metal with very minor black specks remaining. Now apply 2 coats of rust converter, again keeping it wet to penetrate into the pits of the metal. Allow the final coat of rust converter to dry for a minimum of 24 hours before applying a quality rust inhibiting alkyd paint with 2 coats. It's tedious work and you may need to be OCD to endure it. I have autobody and frame repairs/conversions that are in excess of 12 years old, with no signs of failure. Auto rust IS automotive cancer and must be treated the same way. Surgically cut out everything possible and treat what you may have missed with chemotherapy (rust converter).
@@jjm2948 For a frame, after the final painting process, let it cure for 30 days if possible and then apply an undercoating such as fluid film, a linseed oil and wax emulsion or other type of fluid coating. Fluid film with flexible spray extensions on the sprayer seem to be the only reasonable means of treating inside the frames and tight areas. You can only do so much with a rusted frame without separating it from the body.
Would you recommend to shoot rustcheck rust converter inside the frame and then apply a oil coating? Trying to slow the cancer from my Toyota sequoia lol
@@alexe02535 Internal frame areas are a real challenge and solutions are limited.
Power washing to remove as much rust and debris from inside the frame is the most reasonable solution. After fully dry, application of a rust converter, followed by an oil, or wax coating should provide the best protection.
@@chrisgraham2904 thanks I bought a sewer jetter I'm gonna remove all the crap inside. I think it will workout well
Excellent break down, I’m about to do this job on my 4th gen 4runner and will be going pretty hard on it and would love to just have to do this the one time. Are you able to recommend any rust converters that will convert rust to ferric phosphate? And any recommendations for rust inhibiting alkyd paint? Thank you so much in advance!
Thank you for this. My father and I have my late grandfather's older car, with not a lot of mileage on the tires, but a lot of years under its belt. A leak developed in the trunk weather stripping, water caused some rust to form under the spare tire. Your video has taken me to Rust Kutter, and it's doing for me what your testing showed you. Subscribed as a thanks and a very heartfelt thank you.
Problem with all this- either you are testing a true rust converter which makes iron oxide into black iron phosphate, OR you are testing a coating MIXED with a rust converter so that when it dries it's (ideally) a rust-free coating. The chip test has no bearing in testing a true rust converter, same with the bending test. Your own words were that it was "To test how flexible each COATING was." Well either you are testing coatings or you are testing true rust converters which are not coatings at all but just what they say they are, rust converters. Most of the inferior "rust converters" are in fact an acrylic type coatings mixed with a mild phosphoric acid blend. They do convert rust but are just an acrylic coating in the end which can never be any better than acrylic paint in protection. Even if you put epoxy over them, its only as good as the acrylic paint underneath and nobody recommends acrylic paint to protect steel. As you said, if the primer fails, the paint on top fails. ANY product that turns rust black is likely phosphoric acid even if its just mild, but good for you for checking the MDS info to see if there actually was any in there. However, as I said, anything that can be peeled off is not a true converter. Thanks for putting me onto Rust Kutter. I learned more from your video than I expected.
i started work at a bodyshop when i started there was a green liquid that didn't seem to turn the rust black as like iron phosphate it literally converted it back to an iron powder which was of course unuseable but when scuffed away left the metal completely free of rust there was no label on the chemical just a standard spray bottle and reused washer fluid jug full of it when you use it the smell ran u out of the room worse than the smell of rotten egg/sulfur but kinda similar have you any Idea of what this product was?
@@stuffhappensdownsouth9899 Possibly Ospho -by Skyco which is orthophospheric acid and is green and a rust converter. But it does not smell much. Another option might be muriatic acid that turns greenish if any iron gets into it and dissolves rust. It also has a rotten egg smell that makes you run from the room, but the trouble is that it likely re-rusts even more later on unless you apply a paste of baking soda and water 50-50 to the metal for about 10 minutes before rinsing. These are just speculations.
Whats the best paint for too coating black phosphate?
So what should I use
@@MrAhhsum All products with Phosphoric acid are good!
Its This video that is a joke, for all the reasons this original commenter said.
They all convert thin amounts of rust, and then seal in the remaining rust to stop the reaction.
All of the problems and issues the host is having, is because he’s not using them for their intended purpose
I was directed to your page on rust conversion and top coating/ sealing the floor of my classic. Your very in depth. Your testing is much appreciated.
Seems I missed a bunch of your videos somehow, time to catchup... Such an underrated channel! Nice job. That was a lot of work, and rust converters aren't cheap! Thanks for the amount of effort you put into your videos. I always leave learning something new.
Thank's for the great video. Fortunately I already use the Rust Kutter brand. I'd like to share a tip with everyone. I work on tons of snow and salt equipment and whenever I try to do a wiring repair job the copper strands are black with corrosion no matter how far you strip the insulation back. Like everyone I generally sand or scrape it off as best as I can. One day I thought I'd try the Rust Kutter. It works great. Turns it back to shiny copper again. I pour some into a bottle cap and swish the bare wire end around in it for a few minuets. when done I rinse it off with water then spray with CRC battery cleaner to neutralize the acid and rinse again. Sounds time consuming but makes a great repair. Might also work on other non ferrous metals, maybe you could do some testing. ???
Good video. Im building a 29 Ford Tudor that spent decades in the woods and has ZERO paint left. This is a huge help. Thanks for putting this together.
Really well done tests! Have a couple cargo trailers that have a lot of surface rust on the frames and was trying to figure out the best way to tackle it. I think now I’ll scuff the majority off, get a bunch of the rust cutter on it and finish it off with some good primer and undercoat
I've had good experiences with rustoleum rust converter, went on clear, turned rust black, and as long as all thick rust was removed as is wire brush it thoroughly but not needed to be to bare metal, just down to surface rust only, it lasted and worked great, my project car on hold sat in my driveway for 4 years now and isint rusting where I used it, and I spent maybe 30 hours over 2 weeks wirebrushing the WHOLE underbody and wheelwells and using that as a primer layer, then a black primer onto after, then rubbercoated it all, and no rust coming back with Canadian winters too so from +35c to -45c temp ranges, salt from my asshat brother burying it when shoveling the sidewalk while I was living on my own for a bit, its held through
I've been using Naval Jelly since the 70's and have had outstanding results with zero failure. The longest I have tracked it has been just over 20 years with no return of rust from under paint. It's messy as it has to be rinsed and smells terrible so needs to be used in ventilated area, but the results have been excellent. Just used it last week for an RV project that had rust inside the sleeper floor structure that I was able to remove and treat.
Well if you understood that your old ass tech was just phos suspended in gelatin... then you'd understand why the PHOS is the key...
I never understood those products that require you to throw water at the metal right after you cleaned it off rust
@@Gunnl its actually fairly common, and if done right, is fine. the issues creep in when you clean it and then leave it bare metal afterwards. treat -> clean -> protective coat.
When I was a younger man, 43 years ago, I worked in a shipping yard in Florida. One of my jobs was to treat rust on the deep sea ships that came into Port. I used naval jelly on them. It always worked perfectly.
A much needed video. Nothing like upending established market products. Good job!
For a long time I used Loctite Rust Neutralizer thinking what a godsend it was. It bonded existing rust and I could then paint over it. No! This product is a combination of tannic acid and acrylic. The tannic acid is the rust remover and chemically converts the rust into a neutral state, but the acrylic is a useless base coating that should never be under any other type of paint. Tannic acid chemically converts the reddish iron oxides into bluish-black ferric tannate, a more stable material but it can also corrode metal and is not the best rust remover/ converter/ neutralizer. The reason some of your tested products did not work, is due to tannic acid being used.
Some beginner DIYers (as I was once) don't want to spend the time understanding chemistry. They want a quick one step does it all solution. For them, let them continue using Tannic Acid products as it is safer than the stronger stuff like phosphoric acid, muriatic acid, etc.
Phosphoric Acid etches the rust off the metal better than Tannic Acid. This is what is in the Rust Kutter you recommended. It can be dangerous to apply, fumes in lungs and eyes, back splash, spatter, all dangers that need protection with goggles, neoprene or thick nitrile gloves, working in open spaces, skin protection, etc.
Why not use straight phosphoric acid?
1 part 99% phosphoric acid added to 4 parts water is a 25% solution.
1 part 85% Phosphoric acid added slowly to 4 parts water is close enough to a 20% solution.
You typically need a 20 - 30% diluted PA for rust removal.
Remember to add PA (acid) to water, not water to acid in decrease danger of splashback and spatter.
On Amazon, here is 1 quart 85% PA at $13, search for:
Duda Energy 1 Quart / 950ml 85% Food Grade Phosphoric Acid Rust Remover Clean Etch Metal
Is phosphoric acid harmful to humans?
Phosphoric Acid can affect you when breathed in. Phosphoric Acid is a CORROSIVE CHEMICAL and contact can irritate and burn the eyes. Breathing Phosphoric Acid can irritate the nose, throat and lungs causing coughing and wheezing. Use protection!
Why do they put phosphoric acid (PA) in Coke?
Acids provide a tartness and tangy taste that helps to balance the sweetness of sugar present in the beverage; they are key factors in the taste of the beverage. Phosphoric acid is added to cola drinks to impart tartness, reduce growth of bacteria and fungi, and improve shelf-life. When you drink sodas, the PA damages your bones and gives you osteoporosis. Apart from the harmful effects of the sugar, salt, caffeine, and dyes in sodas. Do not drink sodas.
What happens to teeth in phosphoric acid?
Soda also contains phosphoric acid, which is highly corrosive to the teeth. To get an idea of just how erosive it is: phosphoric acid is also used in fertilizer and metal polish. Even small amounts can erode your teeth's enamel.
fyi - Don't say 'literally' and 'actually' in your speech. They are overused and a bad habit. Everyone has a few 😊
Rust encapsulaters and rust converters are very different but the terms in marketing are used interchangeably. Encapsulaters cover the rust and keep it from getting worse by sealing it over; usually epoxy based. Converters are almost always acid based and must be top coated once converted and neutralized.
Top coated with what ?
How do you neutralized it?
@@briizcustoms9543 neutralized with a base like baking soda and water and top coated with paint.
Which is better an encapsulate r or a converter?
can you convert then encapsulate instead of sealing with paint?
couple years late commenting, but that is what the POR15 system entsils, it comes with a cleaner, a rust converter, and then the epoxy coating
Well I'm glad I stumbled across your video - it is one of the best I've seen in a long, long time showing objective testing and clear, concise explanations and was very well edited - a credit to you young sir - thankyou for your efforts.
With the phosphoric acid, you are also meant to rinse them with water after your done etching or soaking the items, to neutralize/remove any remaining acid.
Really awesome, thorough testing. Great video, appreciated the explanations along the way and knew you were talking from some level of knowledge when you brought up the MSDS for the products, as someone who worked for a chemical org previously. Interested in scanning your channel for an undercoating procedure and recommendation now so I know exactly what to buy.
THE RUST MUST TURN BLACK IMMEDIATLY.
AND DRY SOME FAST
before apply it you muyts sand it, cause if you have a big pile of rust it will convert only on top of it and rust it will bust agian.
All products are good if they turn balck and dry fast.
These "tests" are just nonsense cause they have different conditions of surface.
i USE CHEAP PRODUCTS ANTHEU WORK WELL.
One advantage of the Ospho is since it is very thin it will wick in between sheetmetal pinch welds and crimped panels
That's an excellent reason/way to use what OSPHO I have on hand, even though I am going to use the top performing one for all accessible areas, in projects I do.
Thank you!
Thanks for that suggestion. I have a pickup truck that has many spot/pinch welded brackets on the underside of the cargo box. The road salt and water has gotten in between these overlaps and started rusting the sheet metal. I am looking for something that I can spray on that will wick in between these overlaps and stop/convert the rust.
Awesome job reviewing these. It's a crap shoot out there without good testing. THANK YOU for your work on this!
This is so cool. Thank you for doing all the heavy lifting to educate the rest of us!
Thanks for trying them on a "naturally" rusted surface. I was questioning if your solution was preventing adhesion.
I began using OSPHO when starting out as a deckhand on offshore tugs. It was an industrial/marine product only back then and was hard to find someone who would sell it retail. I used it then, and still do as a way to stabilize rusted steel (not thin sheet stuff) after chipping, grinding rusty and scaly steel that had been subjected to wear and saltwater-where you can't or would not blast it. It was excellent then and still is for those HD uses. I use it as a pre-primer before epoxy or other top quality primer..
Indeed, Ospho needs prep as in sanding, wire brushing, needle scaling etc before applying. Industrially its used as a dip tank solution before priming new metal to treat any invisible surface corrosion on the new metal and some may be surprised how even a shiny new sheet of steel will have black patches of iron phosphate appear on it afterwards where it has been invisibly already started corroding. Pretreating rust with a water/vinegar brine soaked shop towel for a few hours followed by a thorough rinse with water to remove the rust and a fast drying process is also a good first step. Steel ships, automobiles, trucks, bridges, etc started lasting longer after Ospho was introduced.
Best!
Exactly, thank you. Ospho isn't a rust stripper, its a rust converter, converting iron oxide into iron phosphate so getting shiny metal was never the goal. Ospho works very well.
@@nicholasagnew2792 Ospho when used in a Dip Tank will boil off the rust very effectively and since it has such a thin viscosity penetrates between pinch welded pieces nicely. You'll see the rust and corrosion float to the surface of the tank and form a layer of black scum as its working.
Steel will come out with a mat grey finish that will have good adhesion with your primer which is why many industries use it in dip tanks/bathes for metal prep during manufacturing.
Best!
I read through some of the other comments now on this video and I think the Ospho process is misunderstood.
Take a painted/coated panel that has rust on it...
Step one is to grind the entire surface down to bare metal, using a wire wheel to grind the rusted areas of all scale and brown surface rust. The rust needs to be wire wheels until virtually no more brown dust comes up from doing so. Then at that point, it's time to apply the Ospho. I always apply it with a brush, working it really well into the metal and I do the entire panel, even if there's no rust in spots. Then it needs to fully dry, minimum of 24 hours.
Step 2 is to make sure it's completely dry and then I start with P80 grit sand paper on a DA and make sure to remove all surface scale created by the Ospho. You do not leave that scale in place! That scale is the converted rust contaminants that cannot stay with the panel. Once it's all sanded down and no more scale, it's ready to be wiped clean with a good wax and grease remover.
Step 3 is to coat the panel with a good primer and paint as normal from there.
Hope this helps someone out there in CZcams - land 👍
Excellent testing and excellent work! Your results can be trusted IMO! Thank you!!
Through personal experience I've found that despite what rust converter products claim, you can't just convert existing rust into iron phosphate or the like and them paint over it and be done. Unless it's very light surface or flash rust, you still have to get rid of the existing rust first, or as much of it as is possible, and only then apply a converter, preferably with a high phosphoric acid and possibly zinc content, and then you still have to apply paint or primer and paint over that.
There is no all-in-one rust remover, converter and encapsulator product for most real world rust situations. I've stopped believing the marketing hype and now use these products for what they do best, converting whatever remaining rust exists AFTER I've gotten rid of as much rust as I can via other means, be they chemical, mechanical or electrical. They're kind of a middle step in the rust removal and treatment process, and used this way can be quite effective.
Rust converters aren't snake oil. They're just marketed as such.
Agreed. They're great for pitted metal after you've sanded/ground down most of the rust
@@zubirhusein I forgot to mention that they both treat and neutralize what little rust remains if you've done a thorough job of removing it, as well as etch the bare metal, so whatever you apply afterwards can do its job properly.
I just did this with my car's entire rear end, using mostly POR-15 with a little spray can paint for the diff, very thoroughly, and hopefully it'll take.
The instructions actually tell u to remove any loose rust. So it's basically telling u to chip all the rust off and it'll convert any surface rust that's left. None of these products will convert and work on bubble rust there simply not made to. Either way u want to remove as much rust as u can before u do anything anyways.
@@timothykappel198 It's not just loose rust that needs to be removed to properly treat rusted metal, but as much of the tougher embedded, encapsulated and pitted rust as possible, or any fracture in the treatment will allow air and moisture in to allow that rust to grow and undermine the treatment. Conversion only works on the very topmost layer if rust and not on anything underneath. You have to do it right or the rust will come back and potentially be even worse.
Whats the best top coating for black phosphate?
If you use a rust converter (we use Enrust) you must allow it to cure for twenty four hours and then coat it with a good primer and top coat. If you don't do that it won't work well. and no coating is perfect. In my applications -marine preservation of metal hulls a good paint job will last 3 (if done in a so-so fashion) to 9 months or so (if done nearly perfectly) and nothing will protect you from chipping or impact.. The acid based products are really only useful for eliminating running rust especially on painted surfaces. I hasten to add that no coating is designed to be bent.
Thank you for the product comparison tests.
Making me rethink how I will handle my rust on 1952 ford panel truck.
Nice job.
Great video! Just wanted to add that I used Dupont (then) Extend on some car rust-thru spots ~40 years ago with fabulous results. Zero rust since then, and the car has never been garaged, always out in the weather.
Yes, the BEST one! Following bottle instructions exactly gives SUPER results. I pour the amount I will use into a plastic cup and brush it on. It turns from tan to black where there's rust, then primer and paint. I've had trouble finding it here in Washington State. Was hoping it would be tested here.
The most thorough product review I have seen in a while. Thanks for doing this and showing what we often deal with - crap products saturating a market making it almost impossible to buy something that actually works well :)
Now from experience, the rustoleum “rust reformer” is a black primer that works surprisingly well. Not a permanent a solution but will buy your chassis a few more years.
Much appreciate the fact that you do go the xtra mile in your testing. Marketing almost always seems to win until real world applications are put into motion.
Have you done a video on rust encapsulators? Eastwood comes to mind first. Also there are some AG paints that have so pretty high self praise.
That's literally the next video. POR15, chassis saver, etc. Same type of testing.
Nice. Perfect timing.
Great review! I have an old rusty jeep as my beach mobile and I hate seeing her deteriorate but don't have the $$ to send her to the "salon". So I was looking for a product I could use myself and still have sufficient results. My idea is to use the Rust Cutter first and then VHT before painting.
Thanks for the efforts put in to the testing. I've used muratic acid to clean and coat over the clean metal with Ospho then prine and top coat with enamel.
Awesome review…..thank you so much, I just about ready to clean a panel farm fence with light surface rust and you made this job so much easier…👍👍👍
Excellent video. Testing methods look very logical and well thought out. I will be using this product on truck parts (frame, differential, etc.). However, some of these parts still have some painted areas that stick pretty well to the metal. After this product cures, I will coat these surfaces with Blaster Surface Shield. Question:
1) What happens if the Rust Kutter product gets on the painted portions of these parts? Is that a problem?
Thanks, Don
Thanks to you I don't need to do these tests myself. I totally trust your results.
I used VHT Rust Converter on my Tacoma frame which had visible surface rust along every weld on the frame. After all the visible rust turned black, I went over it with a flat black Rustoleum. 3 years later, and they all look perfect. No separation or blistering at all. Now, on other bare metal surfaces like the suspension parts that had no coating from the manufacturer, I did have to repeat this process roughly every year.
What is VHT
@Scott Ballin sorry, I didn't finish the thought completely. It's VHT Rust Converter. It is a spray on converter, and works well. There are other good converts too. VhT is just the brand.
Rust Mort is similar.. Works awesome.
Fing tacomas have shit frames. Every gen just dissolves if you live anywhere near salt. Did you ever try CRC rust converter?
Yes. We actually use ospho in some of our aircraft parts. You do need to remove access rust, apply it, and leave it to cure for 24 hours and then remove the access scale or powdery substance on top. Then after that you can prep amd paint over top. An acid brush is good to use to apply it. But it being thin helps it seep into the pores and through the metal. You just have to make sure you wait for it to cure and then the removal of the surface "film" it creates is important. Usually use and solvent to remove that.
I watched this video a week or so ago and remembered I have had a pot of Loctite rust converter in the garage for 30 years, I'm in the UK. A few days ago I swapped the stock shocks on my Subaru Forester XT, for a Peddar's lowering kit. The original shocks have only got 60,000 miles on them, not even half way through their life if my 2.0 Xn is a yardstick. There was a fair amount of rust in places after steam cleaning them, 2nd degree surface rust mostly. An application of the Loctite has totally transformed them, the rusted areas are neutralized and the coating that's been left? I have attacked them again with the pressure washer and the layer remains totally intact. When wire brushed even the worst areas have no live rust remaining. Perhaps a formulation that old has a chemical make up that is outlawed now?
Result, nice set of 2.5 SG9 shocks appearing on E Bay soon :). Thanks for the vid, I wouldn't have remembered it was there otherwise.
I have used opho in the past.I have metal prep before painting (automotive).We live on the pacific coast.The ship yard Marine industry uses ospho here on rust on steel vessels.
FINALLY a test on an actual axle! Yesss! Everybody takes some rusted part, or a bolt and just dumps it into a tub. Wish I can dump my whole suspension into a tub too. Awesome vid. Subscribed!
Thank you for a very thorough evaluation of these products. I only have experience with one of them (Corroseal) so your video was really helpful. Here's my Corroseal saga; hopefully it will help others too.
About 3 years ago I started making original light fixtures as a side gig / hobby, many out of rusted scrap steel. Any parts requiring new steel were rusted intentionally by using a vinegar / peroxide mix, so that they matched the others. I was looking for a rustic black finish, like old wrought iron. I therefore removed all loose rust, and after much research, decided on Corroseal as a rust converter/primer, topped with 4 coats of Rust-Oleum 2x matte black paint. All were applied according to manufacturer recommendations with regard to time, temperature, etc.
I did notice early on that the Corroseal seemed to chip fairly easily, as I had to recoat a couple of tiny spots where I accidentally tapped it with a tool etc while working on the fixtures. I should have thought more about that when it happened, but the product had such a good reputation etc that I figured I would be okay.
Around the same time I made a fixture using similar techniques, but wanted the final finish to be rusty. I therefore removed all the loose surface rust and simply used 4 coats of the Rust-Oleum 2x matte clear coat. In other words, the same paint as the black, except in clear.
Life has been kind of tough over the last two years, so I didn't really push to sell those completed fixtures. It turns out that was fortunate.
About a month ago I sold my house and moved. When I did, I took a moment to admire my fixtures, which had been carefully sitting in boxes, in a fully air conditioned occupied house. To my dismay, EVERY single surface on which Corroseal had been used was covered in tiny dots of powdery rust breaking through the finish. They were not related to any previous chips or other damage, but were everywhere.
I then looked at a test sample of steel which I had used for activating rust. After determining the best method for making them rust, I had prepped them and coated them in the exact same manner as the black fixtures. All pieces of the sample steel were rusted just as the fixtures were.
After that I examined the intentionally rust-finish fixture, the one which only had 4 coats of Rust-Oleum clear coat on it. No breakthrough rust was visible, but since the underlying surface itself was rust, I wanted to make sure. I rubbed it all over with a piece of white paper towel, then examined the towel for any trace of color. There was absolutely none. In spite of being covered in rust to start with, the Rust-Oleum clear coat alone had done its job, and the fixture looked exactly as it did when I finished it.
To put it mildly, I am extremely disappointed in Corroseal. I now face the tedious task of disassembling every fixture I made using this crap, stripping them down to bare metal, and completely refinishing them.
For me, Corroseal utterly failed in every way, and I will never use it again.
Corroseal is crap. I prepped a bunch of rusty spots on some wrought iron chairs, applied Corroseal per the instructions and made sure all the reactions produced the correct color, then hit them with Rust-Oleum Stops Rust enamel spray paint. Within a year the finish on the rusty spots was just gone altogether, flaky rust everywhere. I've had way, way better results with just Rust-Oleum primer and paint. I'm currently letting the chairs sit out in the elements to let all the Corroseal thoroughly fail so I can start the project over again.
Great video! 👍 About 4 months late for me though lol 😢. I went with KBS, based on reviews and lack of availability on VHT product.
Excellent comparison and quite interesting to see the results. Thanks for making the video.. Cheers!
Great video, thanks for sharing your hard work! Going into a bike restoration with some mild rust with a lot more confidence. The acid products seem ideal for detailed parts like threaded bosses that will not be painted but rather greased periodically--correct me if I'm wrong.
Bike parts are small enough to soak. If you're concerned about stripping the finish on plating look at evaporust: czcams.com/video/x3t0YtGRqYU/video.html
So I have a quick question
I live in upper Michigan where they use a lot of salt on the roads , just purchased a 2020 ram truck with no external rust , however there is what looks like a very light surface rust on the underside of the bed and wheel wells .
They have what they call a Midwest protection package up here where they undercoat and seal the underside and inside of wheel wells .
Should I treat the surface before they spray the undercoat or with the undercoating neutralize the surface rust?
I was wondering if I should use the cutter then the VHT where I can reach
Thanks
Thanks for quite a nice test, sir... good on the 'theoretical' test, and a great follow-up on the axle!
The performance depends a lot on which application the rusted part is being used for, for example: a car axle will be exposed to water, dirt, salt, wind, vibrations, and many more hostile agents; you would definitely want the best performance out of it. In my case, I used a version of the rust converter applied with a brush on the steel framing of a garage roof that is exposed to a misty environment, since there is no exposure of the steel with anything else than the misty environment, it works just fine keeping the rust from progressing.
It all depends on the application, I wouldn't expect much out of it if applied on a car axle or any other "hostile" environment exposed part.
Extremely helpful !!! Thanks for your effort !
I have one suggestion for a future test, take the best product here from each of the tests (including the paint on and spray cans) and then subject them to a fluid film/undercoating product to see what happens to them. I'm actually quite curious about how that eastwood stays wet and how it'd react to a lanolin type product.
Eastwood Rust Converter will stay wet for about 30 minutes. It is a water-based product, so it will eventually dry. However, it is important to allow the converter to dry completely before applying any other products, such as a lanolin type product.
Lanolin is a waxy substance that is derived from sheep's wool. It is often used as a lubricant or as a protective coating. If you apply lanolin to a surface that has been treated with Eastwood Rust Converter, the lanolin may interfere with the curing process of the converter. This could lead to the converter not working properly.
It is best to avoid applying lanolin to a surface that has been treated with Eastwood Rust Converter. If you need to use lanolin, you should wait until the converter has completely cured. This will ensure that the lanolin does not interfere with the curing process.
What I worry about with the eastwood product, is that if its acid based, and doesnt dry, any remaining acid in contact with the metal will sit there corroding it. Its why POR15 rust prep advises you to spray, leave for a while, and then rinse off with water, and dry. Because otherwise itll have leftover acid on it and will eat at the steel.
(paused vid at 1:59) Sir, I really appreciate your effort... what a great premise overall for assessing these products! Gotta ask a question before I can watch any more: Did you also 'prep' them per labels prior to 'coating them in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions written on each container'? You did not specify. (No snarkiness intended.. I have to ascertain whether this is an accurate test right away before continuing... I'm sure you understand.) Thanks!
FYI for people in Canada. Rust check rust converter sold at Canadian tire is available in a 236ml bottle not the spray can one. And if you get the bottle one it’s a acid based product like the ones he recommends in the videos
Rust Check Rust Converter, 236-mL
Thanks for the info
Do u have to coat or to paint the surface after using this converter from Canadian tire? If it has acid substances in side its will be not damaged if not covered after using?
@@7r5y9s1 I’m pretty sure it leaves the surface ready for paint
Your video was helpful in my selection. Then I went to Amazon and read some more good reviews about it as well and now I just bought it. Thank you!
Living in southern upstate NY, I'm interested in rust. I've watched your rust videos. Good product tests. I've used Mar-Hyde rust converter and POR-15. I'll check the results in the spring. Keep up the good work.
Por15 has never worked for me. Bonds terribly
Use their degreaser, rust converter or Ospho, and then POR 15...I do mower decks and it lasts the best of anything...assuming prep work was done properly!!!! STICKS LIKE CRAZY!
killing it with the vids man! keep them coming
I've tried MANY of these rust converters. In the end, the only one that I found really good (providing it's maintained in humid environment after it's given on the part as if it dries it stops converting the rust) is called "Fertan" and is a Germany product that is available only in EU (and not everywhere). It's based on tannic acid, so it's not toxic (that thing is used also into wine preparation), it's brown, and it's NOT a primer, but just a converter. You brush it on the part, and within a day all rust is converted. Then you need to wash it away, dry the surface and put a real primer on it. It either transforms the rust into a black dust or removes it completely if the rust is very small.
Hi! What's the exact product's name? I found different products from Fertan like FeDOX, Rost Konverter, Gegen Rost (I assume it's a bigger bottle of Rost Konverter). I am using Wurth Rust Converter and Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 which are also tannic converters, but you don't wash them away, because they dry as a dark layer on top of rust and then you coat them with something.
One I can recommand RUBSON FRAMETO (not afiliated by any kind) : 22 years ago I made for my daughters a Swing balançoire out of thick gaz tubing sitting on my outside stock. They were completely rotted, I just roughtly brushed them, then one FRAMETO coat, then one thick paint coat, that was it. It is still outside my house, and there is NO RUST at all on any tube, even those that where hit and with damage on the paint. Thats a good product, still sold the same after 30 years.
Wow you remind me of the guy from Project Farm. Incredibly detailed and informative. I am just starting to clean up my 85 F 150. For me, because I don't have shop or a lift and I'll be crawling around underneath the truck, I like the Corroseal because it is harmless, easy to work with no fumes and water cleanup. I actually treated the exhaust manifold with it years ago and it's still holding up. I'll probably top coat the corroseal with Surface Shield. That should give me a pretty good protection, right?
I used DURO Extend brush on back in 1985 on the frame, on a motorcycle, where the battery had cracked. Followed the directions and painted over it. When I stripped the bike down, 7 years later, that repair still looked new. Fast forward to today, I found a rust spot along the door seam of my '16 Silverado, where the factory seam sealer had pulled away. I used Permatex Extend brush on, as I assume it bought out DURO, the application is the same. I guess I'll see, down the road.
I've been following your work for decades now along with your decades of rust knowledge. And like you I am also 14 years old
Question, I watched the video twice over for the test description. What was the coating procedure after using the products? What coating product was used? On the phosphoric acid based convertors, did you use the coating on the panels? It looks like the rust kutter panel was uncoated ? No adhesion or bounce tests done? Just wanted to clarify.
I have a heavily corroded E series and thinking about using the Rust Kutter after removing scale, then doing POR 15's coating system with a topcoat of surface shield.
I’m glad rust cutter came in first place. I’ve been using it for the last year with the best results. Thanks for the review
Love the actual experiments! Thank you.
Over 36 years ago I used Sems Rust Seal (not their Rust Mort) which converts and encapsulates (did not require top coating) on a very rusty (I mean rusted through panels in places) '67 Datsun and the rust has never returned. I swear by that stuff. Don't know if it's still out there, but I have a little left and it STILL works.
Ive had good luck with tsc majic tractor paint it holds up pretty well. I done a truck frame of mine 5 yrs ago and still holding strong today.
Great test and great presentation thank you for taking the time and effort and saving me so much leg work I appreciate it
No insult intended, you did good boy. I appreciate your knowledge. And I applaud how you whipped one on us when you did an actual rear axel. Your a clever young man.
Learn grammar
Best explanatory and scientific based explanation of what actually works Thank you for your time making this video
I recently used Loctite’s aerosol product, and I was fairly impressed. I would say it fell somewhere between the Rust Kutter and the VHT. The adhesion was great (I had to use 80 grit paper to get it off), and it definitely converted the rust. I did have to put two coats on the areas with thicker rust. Based on how it smelled and the way it burned when I got it around my eyes and nose, I suspect it is phosphoric acid in a spray can.
Thanks for the info!!
Agree. I used it two years ago on some light rust on the inside quarters of my original 79 Silverado. Delicate work. It worked better than I expected and the rust has not returned at all.
Yes / this is the kind of center he should have been testing. The aerosol Loctite is amazing stuff. It does NOT come off ..
First video I have seen of your channel and I am well impressed -Looking forward to more, so just subscribed!
Thanks for the great video. That was a lot of work that will help a lot of people. I did have one question though which you sort of touched on in the beginning. You mentioned products by PB Blaster and others that are not necessarily rust converters. Do you recommend skipping the rust conversion and going right to a rust inhibitor like the PB Blaster Surface Shield?
Exactly. Rust conversion is only necessary for paint.
Thanks...
Measuring adherence while, at the same time gauging conversion to iron phosphate (or whatever the black stuff is) assumes the phosphate adheres better than regular rust.
The condition of the metal after peeling could actually indicate a superior product. In fact, to peel each one off and examined the actual conversion rather than a surface look would have been beneficial.
Cheap paint (especially fresh) will pass the bend test perfectly - by the way.
Best rust treatment I've found, is Ultra One's "SafestRustRomover". It's not as fast as some other products, and is best applied with recirculation... but it has great results, is less toxic than any of the faster alternatives, and can often be reused, depending on how much area you have to treat. That being said, it's not a converter... but in my experience, those "converters" never penetrate well enough to eliminate the problem.
Thanks for the video. Planning on doing some rust removal and re-coating on a truck I bought and was about to go on the hunt for ospho, but the Rust Kutter seems way easier to use and seems to not have a lot of the downsides/etching on good metal issues that Ospho talks about on their website.
The primer in Corroseal is a latex base. I use it to convert rust and it does that quite well, I wouldn't trust it as a base for automotive use though. I did test it on the outside of my old truck where I had a thin rust layer on fender. It turned the rust to magnetite and 2 Pa winters later it looks the same as the day I did it. No topcoat just the corroseal.
Glad you've had good luck, but be wary of this stuff. I had used Corroseal very diligently on some items I made, and topped it with four coats of rustoleum. After 2 years in an air conditioned house, everything which got that treatment had powdery rust breaking through across the entire surface. I also found that Corroseal's adhesion was extremely poor, and it chipped easily. I posted details of all this separately.
Also a big Fluid Film fan but I‘ve never heard of Rust Cutter. Now I gotta go shopping. Lol
Good job on the testing. Just subscribed after one video!
I used extend treatment on my 1980 Firebird where the battery sits. I sold the car and then came across it several years later with the new owner. I asked to see some of the spots I touched up with it and it still looked great. I am not sure if Loctite changed the formula, it used to be in a brown bottle called Extend Rust Treatment. Seemed to work great for me.
EXCELLENT product. I have a white bottle of DuPont Extend - thick tan color until brushed on rust which turns it black. Primer and paint and good to go. Cannot find it for sale now.
picking up some rust kutter myself, thanks again for a great video man!
Excellent report on rust solutions.
Questions, need to use high zinc engine oil for life in flat lifter engines? Also is unleaded gas effect on original iron head valve seats enough to qualify expensive pressed in valve seats? A wear rate query actually.
Recommended product, (I'm not a seller) Gibbs brand lubricant. Sprayed it on new clean raw steel rims 3 years ago zero rust, other non treated raw sheet metal same car same time is surface rusted. Also good penetrant and lube. A friend said he painted over it after it dried and paint stayed (on a lube?). Expensive but a lot of us use it.
Great video and great channel! Thanks for all this good factual and unbiased informations you give us!
I have had extremely good luck with the Ospho. I have done countless restorations and hotrods with it and they all still look great and have held up against the rigors of time
Have you documented any so we can see your process?
@@Tubetop411just wear safety goggles and wear chemical gloves 🧤 and a respirator 😷 mask as Ospho is an acid so use and store with caution....
@@Tubetop411 yeah I have lots of pictures of builds over the years. No way to post them here though and I do not have a YT channel
@@Tubetop411 I have recently started putting my build pictures into Google shareable build folders so I could probably post those links but they are recent. I don't have anything uploaded yet from years ago but I can tell you that if there were any issues with any past work, they definitely would have reached out to me to fix it.
I read through some of the other comments now on this video and I think the Ospho process is misunderstood.
Take a painted/coated panel that has rust on it...
Step one is to grind the entire surface down to bare metal, using a wire wheel to grind the rusted areas of all scale and brown surface rust. The rust needs to be wire wheels until virtually no more brown dust comes up from doing so. Then at that point, it's time to apply the Ospho. I always apply it with a brush, working it really well into the metal and I do the entire panel, even if there's no rust in spots. Then it needs to fully dry, minimum of 24 hours.
Step 2 is to make sure it's completely dry and then I start with P80 grit sand paper on a DA and make sure to remove all surface scale created by the Ospho. You do not leave that scale in place! That scale is the converted rust contaminants that cannot stay with the panel. Once it's all sanded down and no more scale, it's ready to be wiped clean with a good wax and grease remover.
Step 3 is to coat the panel with a good primer and paint as normal from there.
Hope this helps someone out there in CZcams - land 👍
Ok Q...
I bought a vehicle that the exhaust system has been welded together from the manifold to the muffler, if I was to use your best rust converter would it work since it would adhere better because of the heat or not?
Great videos, helpful for the project I’m tackling now. I have a truck where the rust is pretty bad on the undercarriage. I’m planning on wire brushing the large chunks and then use the rust kutter on it to create the barrier. Afterwards I was hoping to use woolmax or surface shield as a protectant. Is this a wise course of action or does the rust converter and lanolin not mix?
I picked up a western Washington 1960s car that had bad surface rust on the entire roof and trunk lid. I brushed some Ospho on it, sanded a little, and painted the sucker. Its been about 8 years and I haven't got a single paint bubble. The thing looks amazing. Ospho isn't a stripper...I've never had the car under a roof either.
Great job! Always wondered if those products worked. They all make claims but few actually work.
Excellent video. Maybe starting with the rust cutter to get as much of the rust off then either vht or regular primer would be a good idea.
Really great content as always - amazing attention to detail - thank you for putting this together for us. Two questions (apologies if these were already addressed - lots to read through below): 1. If the Rust Cutter or VHT is sprayed onto paint, or overspray gets onto rubber components - what happens? I'm guessing it'll eat the paint and maybe not react with the rubber? Obviously if it reacts with rubber and dissolves it - not good. 2. Related to #1 - could the Rust Cutter be painted on for more control? I'm guessing so, but I just want to get your thoughts. Thank you!
What one after application would you say needs the least prep before coating with paint, and painting to prevent rust. Like frame rails, suspension, brake calipers, stuff like that. I dont need it to look good i just want it to last more then a few years.
I’ve gone the phosphoric acid route on a truck restoration. I’m concerned about my epoxy floor in my garage. Any experience with that? I may have to take it outside, but would prefer staying in the shop. It’s a nice floor, but has been good against most chemicals. I haven’t tried this yet.
Great video this will save a lot of people money on crappy products. I wouldve liked to have seen Kurust on this video, I think its tannic acid based (looks like milk, goes purple-ish when drying).
I try to remove rust by mechanical means as much as possible, then use rust converters to get inside of pitting that a wire wheel etc cant get, then re-wire wheel it to take it back to mainly bare steel, but with the tiny spots of pitting converted.
I also swear by POR15 metal prep, its phosphoric + zinc acid based, but doesnt remove heavy rust, just mild surface like this video had.
What would you suggest on undercoatings procedures to make the vehicle last the longest? Best to prime and paint or pb blaster surface shield?
Before using these products it is recomended to remove the rust with a metal brush, then apply the product and then epoxy prime and paint. Anyway thanks for the VHT product review, I ll try it!
Young man, I hope your a engineer because your dedication is admirable
Very Good testing.... saved me a lot of time and told me exactly what I wanted to know!!!
I'll never get the opportunity to use these. I've been spraying fluid film and surface shield on everything.
Awesome job on this. Thanks for the hardwork
Just what I was looking for! I got a used truck that's rusting on the insides of the very bottom of the doors and want to treat it before it get's to the outside. I'll try brushing off the larger flakes, brush on some Rust Cutter, and hit it with a coat or two of spray paint. Hopefully this holds for a while, although I'm sure the real issue is likely coming from moisture sitting inside the bottom of the doors themselves. Maybe I'll pour some trans fluid inside the door afterwards to slow things down even further.
I love this channel! Please keep doing videos like this! They’re also helpful!
It has to make sense on my end. I've shot videos like this that take nearly a year just to recover my costs for product. I'm no project farm who will get guaranteed views with every upload.
@@RepairGeek yeah that makes sense. Will you do an experiment to see if saltaway products remove CRC corrosion inhibitor and other similar products?
is there a product you recommend for applying to rusty exhaust system?? thanks
Klean-Strip Concrete Etch & Metal Prep from the cleaning section of the paint department at Home Depot or Lowes. It's phosphoric acid that will strip rust. Soak rusty metal in it. I use paper towels to keep a surface wet. Don't let it dry. The residue is a pain to remove.
I’m a ospho and corroseal advocate, using one or the other at least once a week on a boat that is always exposed to salt water. I use ospho to “kill” rust to stop it from spreading until I can get into the rust with a needle gun/wire wheel. After it’s prepped and cleaned (denatured alcohol) 2 coats of corroseal 24h apart hasn’t failed me yet. Great video and testing.
Hey Denatured Alcohol will neutralize Ospho
Then you can prime and paint after ?
Did u ever try/test Mar-Hyde Rust Converter? Simple to use, easy water soluble clean up, goes a long way with very little, very durable, do not apply on paint or it peels off. The best part is MUCH easier prep work! A truly great product that I have used for years after switching from other brands you tested. I did find brushing worked better then the spray. Please advise.
I used phosphoric acid after wire wheel/grind/sand the heaviest scale off. Wired wheeled after dried, re-coated, wire wheel again, primed then top coated. So far so good after 2 years in NY State on a '87 ford truck frame.
that is very thorough to wire wheel again after the phosphoric acid treatment.
Thats exactly what I do too. I'm glad someone else uses the same method. My thoughts were bare steel is always best to paint, but sometimes you cant get to rust inside pitting etc. So wire wheel most of the rust off, treat the panel with converters to get into pitting, then rewire wheel to take it back to mainly steel, but with the pitting now converted.
@@ratgreen If you wire-wheel after applying rust converters are you implying the converted rust is easier to wire-wheel off than the original rust itself? If not then, what are you wire-wheeling off after the rust converter has been applied?
@@Marcoosianism I wire wheel it again to try get as much fresh steel exposed as possible, otherwise you have steel that is stained with rust converter. My idea being that etch primer will have better adhesion to fresh steel than good steel covered in rust converter.
Leaving only the tiny rust spots in rust pitting that can't be wire wheeled off, being converted.
@@ratgreen I understand. Thank you!