It was good, and sadly subsumed into the chauvinist garbage that taints the whole video once he gets to it. He's describing a real feeling then drops its anchor in a mendacious punching-down blame-vomit.
Nierdrum, in his drawings and paintings, always gives me a sense of the stillborn, the unborn - a world that has not yet blossomed into the sunlit experience of human joy, human sorrow, human feeling and psychological insight. It is a penumbral middle world that is wonderfully rendered, but which for me holds little appeal or significance. He is stuck somewhere prior to actual manifestation in this world, and while he is true to his experience, I do not consider that expression either elevated or spiritual. And as for the young people who emulate him by portraying that same somber world of obscure symbols and shadow, well... don't get me started!
Cameras did not exist back then so more consideration was placed on accuracy as opposed to expression. We associate art today primarily with expression but we forget the importance of accurate recording back in the day. The way he drew was a sign of the times. They might have considered your expressionistic drawing amateurish or child like as opposed to the technical difficulty of image making. Both serves a purpose. It is east to argue image making is bad if you consider it for expression, and vice versa that your style is bad for accuracy. I think you are going a bit far to compare yourself to him though in terms of proficiency. with the greatest respect it is technically lacking and otherwise, though I'm sure you'd differ.
Very nice explanation of your personal taste in drawings. I don't happen to share your reactions to Nerdrum's work. I especially don't see much photographic in the first example you gave because of the obvious process of selection going on (the eye sockets appear empty, for example). While I agree his work is about atmosphere in a way that drawings by the Old Masters are not, I wouldn't attach the word "pretension" to it, so much as see him bringing a sort of post-modern Romanticism to the lessons he takes from the Old Masters. I do take my hat off to you though, as it takes A LOT of balls to claim a fairly run-of-the mill level drawing of your own is "more interesting" than the Nerdrum you show. Not that I dislike your work at all, I actually think it's nice. In your marks and the rhythms they create I see a strong influence of 1950s and 60s illustration how-to books (Nerdrum is not the only artist in this video who's "aping something from the past"). I promise this isn't a diss of your work, it carries an aesthetic I happen to like quite a bit, actually. It's useful for getting the job done while also being lively and pleasing, aesthetically. In terms of visual marks, they're ultimately in the tradition of Van Gogh, which is never a bad thing (though of course your end goals are clearly different from Van Gogh's). As someone who's been teaching drawing for going on 30 years now, I respectfully and sincerely recommend you make some genuine attempts to copy Nerdrum drawings, starting with the one we see at 6:09 but of course not ending there. Make a months-long project of it. I think by striving in this way, you'll see past your personal aesthetic biases and find that it's helpful and instructive to be in communication with Nerdrum's undeniably superior grasp of anatomy. And you may gain a better appreciation of the atmosphere that he conjures, seemingly effortlessly, when you inevitibly find yourself unable to reproduce it. His aesthetic will probably never be your cup of tea, but if nothing else you can open your mind a bit and gain some respect for someone who happens to work very differently from you. Plus, you may learn some things you can bring to your own work that take them a step past the 50s illustration how-to.
@@Paul-talk its not about reading books - it is all there in the image you made your point, but you should be able accept criticism - and your emoticon as a response is arrogant and condecending . . .
So… the purely joyful mark-making or “here-and-now” physical aspect of the drawings is sacrificed in Nerdrum to his desire to create some kind of “effect.” I get that in the examples you give. Truthfulness sacrificed to an agenda-even though Nerdrum is still leaps and bounds better than classical realism. It would be interesting to hear your assessment of Pietro Annigoni’s drawings. To me, not as calculating as Nerdrum.
I always thought it was bizarre that Jacob Collins wrote the foreward to the new edition of Drawing Lessons From the Great Masters by Robert Beverly Hale. I mean, did he even look at the drawings?
Okay maybe I take issue with the gender stuff. Your point seems to be that desperately posing as traditional is foolish because we are all in the present and we have always been in the present. the gender binary is one of those traditional constructs that we don't have to uphold anymore. We can live beyond it. the binary is exactly what odd neerdrum does probably. in other words, the gender binary isnt eternal, its deeply ideological and culturally dependent. what is eternal is the body and being
"the link to the past is just being alive now" I'm not sure if that's a quote or just you but i definitely took a note of it.
It was good, and sadly subsumed into the chauvinist garbage that taints the whole video once he gets to it. He's describing a real feeling then drops its anchor in a mendacious punching-down blame-vomit.
Nierdrum, in his drawings and paintings, always gives me a sense of the stillborn, the unborn - a world that has not yet blossomed into the sunlit experience of human joy, human sorrow, human feeling and psychological insight. It is a penumbral middle world that is wonderfully rendered, but which for me holds little appeal or significance. He is stuck somewhere prior to actual manifestation in this world, and while he is true to his experience, I do not consider that expression either elevated or spiritual. And as for the young people who emulate him by portraying that same somber world of obscure symbols and shadow, well... don't get me started!
Love it!
Everything you said makes sense. I think a lot of it comes back to honesty or truthfulness.
Indeed... but "truthfulnes" is no longer a thing for too many people.
@@Paul-talkthat’s true 😀
Very nice sir good🎉
Cameras did not exist back then so more consideration was placed on accuracy as opposed to expression. We associate art today primarily with expression but we forget the importance of accurate recording back in the day. The way he drew was a sign of the times. They might have considered your expressionistic drawing amateurish or child like as opposed to the technical difficulty of image making. Both serves a purpose. It is east to argue image making is bad if you consider it for expression, and vice versa that your style is bad for accuracy. I think you are going a bit far to compare yourself to him though in terms of proficiency. with the greatest respect it is technically lacking and otherwise, though I'm sure you'd differ.
Very nice explanation of your personal taste in drawings. I don't happen to share your reactions to Nerdrum's work. I especially don't see much photographic in the first example you gave because of the obvious process of selection going on (the eye sockets appear empty, for example). While I agree his work is about atmosphere in a way that drawings by the Old Masters are not, I wouldn't attach the word "pretension" to it, so much as see him bringing a sort of post-modern Romanticism to the lessons he takes from the Old Masters.
I do take my hat off to you though, as it takes A LOT of balls to claim a fairly run-of-the mill level drawing of your own is "more interesting" than the Nerdrum you show. Not that I dislike your work at all, I actually think it's nice. In your marks and the rhythms they create I see a strong influence of 1950s and 60s illustration how-to books (Nerdrum is not the only artist in this video who's "aping something from the past"). I promise this isn't a diss of your work, it carries an aesthetic I happen to like quite a bit, actually. It's useful for getting the job done while also being lively and pleasing, aesthetically. In terms of visual marks, they're ultimately in the tradition of Van Gogh, which is never a bad thing (though of course your end goals are clearly different from Van Gogh's).
As someone who's been teaching drawing for going on 30 years now, I respectfully and sincerely recommend you make some genuine attempts to copy Nerdrum drawings, starting with the one we see at 6:09 but of course not ending there. Make a months-long project of it. I think by striving in this way, you'll see past your personal aesthetic biases and find that it's helpful and instructive to be in communication with Nerdrum's undeniably superior grasp of anatomy. And you may gain a better appreciation of the atmosphere that he conjures, seemingly effortlessly, when you inevitibly find yourself unable to reproduce it. His aesthetic will probably never be your cup of tea, but if nothing else you can open your mind a bit and gain some respect for someone who happens to work very differently from you. Plus, you may learn some things you can bring to your own work that take them a step past the 50s illustration how-to.
😄
@@Paul-talk Yeah, that's pretty much what I'd expect. At least I tried.
Tryed what? ... what if you have no idea what you are talking about?
Have you read my book, or just seen the 3 drawings I show here?
@@Paul-talk its not about reading books - it is all there in the image you made your point, but you should be able accept criticism - and your emoticon as a response is arrogant and condecending . . .
it _is_ about reading MY book. I'll listen to talk about my arrogance and inability to listen to criticism once you've read it. @@urdrawingatelier922
Paul your drawings are a knock out
nice of you to say so... but basicly no one gives a damn. 🙄😞🤨
@@Paul-talk i do ....😁👍🏼🎨🧐😳💯👌🏼😸
@@Paul-talk Maybe .but there is people who will enjoy your work if exposed more like in gallery's etc.
not happening. Galleries not interested. that's how it is... @@TheObSeRvErTheObSeRv
@@Paul-talk Sorry to hear that . anyway keep up the good work you do with your video`s. god bless.
So… the purely joyful mark-making or “here-and-now” physical aspect of the drawings is sacrificed in Nerdrum to his desire to create some kind of “effect.” I get that in the examples you give. Truthfulness sacrificed to an agenda-even though Nerdrum is still leaps and bounds better than classical realism. It would be interesting to hear your assessment of Pietro Annigoni’s drawings. To me, not as calculating as Nerdrum.
I always thought it was bizarre that Jacob Collins wrote the foreward to the new edition of Drawing Lessons From the Great Masters by Robert Beverly Hale. I mean, did he even look at the drawings?
if you can get the DVD set of RBH live lectures you won't regret it .'
Game and money speak.
Obscurity and povery yammer on CZcams.
@Paul-talk Yes, and they all wind up the same in the long run. Reminds me of Ozymandias by what's-his-name.
you hit every nail on every head. his work is fascistic.
Okay maybe I take issue with the gender stuff. Your point seems to be that desperately posing as traditional is foolish because we are all in the present and we have always been in the present. the gender binary is one of those traditional constructs that we don't have to uphold anymore. We can live beyond it. the binary is exactly what odd neerdrum does probably. in other words, the gender binary isnt eternal, its deeply ideological and culturally dependent. what is eternal is the body and being
Fascticic 😮
Bro wut 😅
The 1990s called, they want their "Dare to be stupid" fascism er I mean fashion back.
@@solgato5186 the 1990s called