A Chosen Exile: A History of Racial Passing in American Life
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- čas přidán 17. 02. 2016
- In this Race and Difference Colloquium, Allyson Hobbs, an Assistant Professor in the Department of History at Stanford University, discusses her first book, "A Chosen Exile: A History of Racial Passing in American Life," published by Harvard University Press in October 2014. The book examines the phenomenon of racial passing in the United States from the late eighteenth century to the present. A Chosen Exile won the Frederick Jackson Turner Award for best first book in American History and the Lawrence Levine Award for best book in American cultural history. (February 15, 2016)
The Race and Difference Colloquium Series is sponsored by the James Weldon Johnson Institute for the Study of Race and Difference, which supports research, teaching, and public dialogue that examine race and intersecting dimensions of human difference including but not limited to class, gender, religion, and sexuality.
www.jamesweldonjohnson.emory.edu - Věda a technologie
I can't help but feel some sadness for your Aunt who couldn't return to Chicago's Southside and her family. I'm sure it saddened her more than she could express. I remember riding in the car on Chicago's highway through the city as a child and making eye contact with a child in another car. I waved at him and he waved back. He is Black and I am white. It's such a simple memory but I was so happy he waved back. I don't know why it sticks out in my memories, but I cherish it.
Funny how folk so arrogantly state what they would and wouldn’t do but never lived under those times of LEGAL, immensely difficult and crudely blatant racial oppression.
If we weren’t there, we cannot speak of what we would do based on today’s benefits we experience because they survived.
Be humble and grateful🌸
My mother put her finger in my face and said the exact same thing, when I found out she had 8 great aunts and uncles that passed for white..and I snubbed my ignorant mouth off, that I would’ve never passed, if I had a light/ white complexion. My grandmother could’ve passed, but she never did, but she lived a miserable life and had many mental breakdowns.
Absolutely. Well said.
Shiiid, they'd have had to kill me
Well Said!!!!!!!
@@wtfsamusidk7574😂
I have a great-aunt who did just this when she remarried a white man. She also made her children from a previous marriage with a black men visit her at night and they entered through the backdoor. At the time she lived in the city of Pittsburgh. Its funny because my grandfather her brother who could have done the same never tried to pass. He was adamant that he was a black man.
Now this story is a “book/movie in the making” I’d love to read/watch - my mouth fell open while reading this comment!!! I’d loved to know perspectives from ALL sides, so interesting!!!!
WOW those poor children...the trauma!
My grandmother could've passed as white; but she never tried and married my wonderful grandfather . It's funny; but I have received that heritage and could easily pass as Italian. In Italy aI had been asked if I was. I've never tried to deny what I am, mixed race of part African descent.
Your grandfather's assertion reminds me of the legendary NAACP leader, Walter Francis White the speaker discusses. He was pale, blond and blue-eyed and could've easily passed for white. He and his immediate family. But they chose not to. Francis only passed on temporary missions in the South so he could document the details of lynchings and other atrocities against blacks. He and your grandfather chose the "stony road." That's the stuff of heroism.
My great grand father pulled into the back of the manse, only at night, he was Ashkenazi Jew 1904.
My grand mom and her sister were given only first names. And went to school like that. No surname at all until they married. Dont know how Marquette Michigan and the Catholic church got away with this.
My Great Grandmothers brother passed. She said he left one day and never came back. She watched him walk away while she stood on the porch. She never saw him again.
Your great great uncle
As being a young black woman that has lost both parents, and how they nurtured me and raise me, I cannot imagine denying they were ever mine. 😥😫 Passing sounds depressing..
That's kind of the point of this research...
@A Tangerine passing is depressing. To leave your entire family alone so no one knows. even the ones who can pass with you , you can't trust because they may say something
@A Tangerine iio
But if you have to do based on surviving negotiated between your family andand survival of a society that do not accept original race or gender or sex you will pass you will pass to survive your family's name 💪 you will pass to create the future I'm build a legacy for the family you left behind 🙏 but it's always good to get the blessing of those who you're leaving behind and if you don't this is where the flexibility of well a survival will kick in those were the times I need those times supposed to be repeated we would have to do what we have to do to survive is whether you're weak or strong
Most blacks used to think is was the absolute worst thing in the world.
I now know that - although it still seems to be an awful thing - i know people have to do...what they have to do, for their own lives.
I can only wish them well.
My Aunt and my Uncle, her husband both passed when I was a little girl. From what I remember, they owned a very prosperous club, beautiful jewelry, furs. Something happened and they lost everything. They moved here, Ohio and he ended up dying. She was heartbroken and died also. I have truly miss my Aunt. She always doted on us as she could not have children.
I just watched a 1960 movie called I Passed For White. Another High Yellow 1965. Everyone keeps mentioning Pinky and Imitation of Life. The movies I found today are on CZcams as well.
I to watch the same movie The Other Day on CZcams I never seen it or heard this movie before I already know about Imitation of Life I have a DVD copy I bought a few years back somewhere. The lotto I knew a lot of black people that wear that complexion but I grew up in the 6 late 60s early in the 70s and they were very proud to be black even though a lot of people thought that they were white family they'll almost look Italian of Portuguese but some of the kids have Afrocentric hair but some have straight flowing hair like a white person the father look like he was Portuguese the mother look very light-complected black with kinky hair so the kids were many and they looked in between some could even pass for white others maybe Hispanic and the others just obviously they looked black so sometimes black people have to do this to make a better life for the past they didn't want to sometimes their parents made them do it if they would really fair skin they have a better life. And that was it because of the stigma and that you're a certain person because of the color of your skin you must stay in your place back in the day and even today people don't realize it's still going on so yes people have to do this to survive or just a live a decent life I'm just saying
I watched that too...it was good...
This is absolutely fascinating. Becuase of the oppression and mistreatment of Blacks in that time, I personally cannot fault anyone for "Passing". Those were different times. That was a harsh and difficult time in society for people of color and I imagine those who were able to pass, saw opportunity. Which one of us wouldnt take the road paved with gold over the road paved with unfairness, discrimination and strife? While this practice would be (IMHO) deplorable and almost unforgivable today, I totally get why it would have been done back in the day. But it had to be a lonely life, leaving behind everything you knew and loved for a better life. How isolated it must have been for them.
It's easier for some blacks that can pass for white
@@docsmithdc your comments are incredibly ignorant
You qoukdnt be stuffing your gut with nothing but potatoes and other foods that grow in the caucus mountains if it werent for the sweat of my ancestors
How DARE you make such stupid comments
You are entitled to NOTHING
@@docsmithdc ..AND WHAT KIND OF "LOOKING" PERSON ARE YOU?..IF YOU ARE ANYONE APPEARING TO BE ANYTHING OTHER THAN "BLACK", THEN I KNOW WHERE YOUR VERY STUPID COMMENT CAME FROM..GO BACK 1 OR 2 CENTURIES AND FIND OUT WHAT YOUR ANCESTORS WERE CALLED?..I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE YOU THAT IT WAS NOT WHAT YOU PURPORT TO BE TODAY..BLACKS ARE NOT LOOKING FOR YOUR APPROVAL AND COULD CARE LESS ABOUT WHAT YOUR OPINION IS OF THEM..YOU CALLING THEM NEGROES JUST SHOWS WHERE YOUR MINDSET IS..AS FOR FIGURING THEM OUT?...YOU NEVER WILL AND THAT IS JUST FINE..BUT THEY HAVE FIGURED YOU OUT AND CAN READ YOU LIKE THE PLAGIARIZED BOOK THAT YOU ARE... FOOL!
@@docsmithdc I think your missing the point. This country has been divided enough on race! it's wrong to judge a person's carector by one's ethisty alone. I don't blame that women for passing either. The tragedy behind this story is not the fact that the African American community was trying to ruin it for her, it's that she couldn't see her dieing father because of racist believes!
@@narutoman1360Actually you make the point yourself-the power of race is so great in America that people see themselves as having no choice but forgoing and sentimentalities that can cause their "passing" to be exposed.
I enjoyed this a lot. I kept thinking of Walter F. White, then you mentioned him. Also, Sally Hemmings in Paris, I know there must be thousands in american history.... We had a VERY light skinned maternal ancestor on my dad's side, who was descended from slaves. I have seen pciture of her and she looks white, but she was descended from Maryland slaves. She married into a German family in Indiana (Norricks). Also my direct ancestors. Her name was Mary Ann Freeman.
"I don't want to pass because I can't stand insincerities and shams. I am just as much Negro as any of the others identified with the race."Fredi Washington. She also said this. (Which is another one of my favorite quotes of hers.) "I have never tried to pass for white and never had any desire, I am proud of my race. In 'Imitation of Life', I was showing how a girl might feel under the circumstances but I am not showing how I felt." -Fredi Washington. Fredi Washington just like so many others like her chose not to pass, so contrary to popular belief not everyone wanted to do such a erroneous thing as that "passing" stunt, because they were proud of who they were and proud of their people. And, they loved themselves and their people not to do such a horrible thing. And, for that I respect and admire the ones such as Fredi Washington and the countless others who chose not to pass for any privileges that Whiteness had to offer.
Layla Roses
Yes my aunt was like that, she never ever wanted to pass
@@pacificocean7361 My grandmother could pass and she didn't want to give up her family. You have to give up a lot to pass back then.
@@shaunacoleman3306
I really appreciate your defense of people's right to be who they choose to be.
There was a book written called, "Passing for Who You Really Are". Also in support of people's right to do what they had to do.
Blacks seem to be the only one's who had a problem with this. They want to make you feel ashamed for doing what was best for you.
Many times mixed people simply could not remain in the black culture because they were persecuted and had no healthy identity there.
But thank you again for your strong defense.
@@shaunacoleman3306 your comment is kinda ridiculous and seems like your just making excuses to justify passing as opposed to condemning why they needed to do it in the first place, if racist whited weren’t so hell bent on ruining anyone’s life who wasn’t white they wouldn’t have to pass for white to live a a good life, I understand why they did it but they shouldn’t have had too
Wow. I grew up with the Bud Billikin Parade through my grandparents. My grandfather owned property in the Hyde Park/Woodlawn area. We moved to Windsor Hills 8n Los Angeles while my Mom went through her residency at LA County hospital. We were NOT light. My grandfather was a follower of Marcus Garvey and a friend of Ida b Wells he also graduated from Tuskegee institute in 1920.
He kept us normal. But we had a lot of light skin people in our family who could pass for white some past four Ashkenazi and some pants for Italians but they always came to visit us in Los Angeles. I miss that era in Chicago before 1965.
Very interesting you should write a book on that life
Excellent work here
I have a white friend who found out that one of her grandmothers was black.
My friend and her mom did not know until grandma explained this when she was terminally ill.
She did it because she wanted a better life.
This same thing - the death bed confession, happened to my friend.
That would only make her a quarter
@@isabellavalencia8026 only means what exactly?
Exactfuckenactly what it says...she is only a quarter not half not full but simply a quarter.
@@isabellavalencia8026 what is said by racist, one drop of black blood makes you a n word, surely you’ve heard that, but many in my mothers family passed for white to have better lives living as white folks. It was real difference, the schools their kids attended had every convenience and opportunities, they had access to places negroes could not even think to have. They were able to get good jobs to afford homes, and it sometimes forced them to cut off the black side of family.
It was a deadly secret and when they did visit the, they had to go to the side door or the back to keep the neighbors from noticing anything unusual because there were a lot of nosy housewives that would start talk. They kept the music they loved playing but not loud enough to hear outside of the house. I saw pictures of some of these cousins, beautiful, fair skinned, some even facial features of white peoples, but their hair was always beautiful and thick and if not fine enough it could give them away. There was always an element of fear of being found out.
As an adoptee who's identity was stolen from me for 37 years (and I am still filling in the pieces). I wonder why this can't be looked at more holistically. I had no idea what I was for 37 years in the south. I was adopted out of Texas and grew up in north florida. So in my mind there was very little chance I was just one thing. What I ended up finding out is that my history was from somewhere very unexpected to me. In my heart I understand but sometimes don't agree with the ways and customs of the south. In reality I come from people who have always been in the north. And there is alot of northern things in me but they all mean I am one thing. I know back when passing occured it was due to the need to escape slavery or to have a better financial chance at life. Why right now though do we ignore that these folks that passed were almost always a good deal european as well as African. In modern times why can't we embrace all aspects of who we are. It seems to me like those who have passed are both and have a right to both communities.
I grew up in a family that, unbeknownst to me until I was much older, was “passing”. What is sad, is because of this... I am unable to really trace my background back very far. There was so much information that was just swept under the rug and buried forever.
Annalisa James how did you find out?
Secrets don't remain hidden. Someone asks why a relative looks nothing like the rest of the family, only to realize you have asked a question that is way off limits. Old family pictures and courthouse records begin to pull back old layers of secrecy.
You must not feel critical of the choice your family made. Because people who make that choice are not black, they are mixed. In most cases they were rejected by the black culture. And when they found a refuge, another means of existence for themselves; it was mostly the black culture who wanted to shame and expose them for having denied them.
The very word "passing" was concocted to shame and expose mixed people for in turn rejecting the black culture. The fact is bi-racial people are not black. And it is there choice to go in a direction that makes them whole and healthy. This is a God given right regardless of what color or race you are. No one has the right to point fingers and accuse or shame someone for making a life for themselves.
I discovered a book that puts this subject in a more positive light. It's called "Passing for Who You Really Are".
Even in today's society it's black voices who are still trying to perpetrate this "shame game" upon bi-racial people of yesterday and stigmatize "us" into thinking we have no right to exist outside of their boundaries; as if we need their permission to exist in this world. Well we do not and everytime I run into this old "shame game" propoganda I do my best to crush it.
@@darnabedwell2115 you are sadly mistaken..the black community was the ONLY community that accepted mixed relatives..we have been raising mixed offspring since slavery. On the other hand yhe need to pass waa to gain acceptance in the white community because if the secret was known by them mixed people would be ostracized if not killed..the black community would not kill you for the secret but on the other hand white society wanted nothing to do with their offspring or to be involved with secret mixed people...get your facts correct.
@@yamomma6479
To say you should be credited for raising and accepting mixed people since slavery is taking too much credit.
How can you take credit for what God did? As a mixed person I understand the dynamics between mixed people and the black culture. You can't school me on that.
Many mixed people have gone to bats for injustice against the black culture. So don't flatter yourself to think we should be indebted to you for "raising us".
What is sad is the way people can boast and make claims about the past. A time that they did not exist in. So stop trying to claim God's glory.
It taught me that everything is not what it seems. I’ve always lived and circulated around all types of people and I find that people are people, no matter what race.
People like you have experienced spiritual exile from the pain and suffering feel by darker complexioned sisters and brothers . You assume that racial discrimination doesn't exist based on your experiences without realizing that your life is to isolated and limited to suggest such .
You Never delved into the deeper water of the groups or the social construct. Or you would rather stay disconnected and shallow.
Passing is similar to Homosexuality in the sense that the particular individual can pretend to be someone else .
The problem that I have with someone that Pass for someone else surrounds their silence or their refusal to covertly contribute to their biological family .
American descendants of slavery are blessed to have a rich history of over coming the odds . And the complexion of the people that help those in need beat the odds have varied in hue .Yet , there is the one point that can not be ignored surrounding the failure of some to put the sexual experience between white women that over the plantation and the black man into context . .
Sex for a slave was meaningless , unless a child is born to the slave that was taped repeatedly by her master . The Masters child then is reared by blacksto be the seed that could potentially help someone in need .
Everyone on Earth have a chance to help someone else no matter the difficulty .Sex between a black and white was as if is today an opportunity for a difference maker to be born . If the child was to be reared to ignore his responsibility to help others this would make their union is waste of time . If the child took advantage of passing for white just so that he or her could make their own life better is no help to the cause .
Never deny your truth. When you do you end up robbing your soul.
This has to be done every so often. The new generations tend to forget those things of the past. Because of recent conflicts like in Serbia's ethnic cleansing, people do not understand the racial tribalism that occurs in great society at a time of cultural shifting.
Such an eloquent interesting speaker. I had a neighbor whose mum could pass for white and she herself was light skinned. But she remained in the black community. It’s sad as it’s no ones fault unless families are broken over it.
Once and for all this is nothing but an age old "shame game" propoganda. Bi-racial people are not black. If they were why were they mostly rejected by the black culture even today.
As a bi-racial person my thoughts to the black culture is that you have absolutely no right to dictate to bi-racial people how to live their lives.
Who are you? Bi-racial people are not obligated to live under the social constraints of your boundaries. Who do you think you are?
People have a God given right to the pursuit of happiness. If that makes you feel left out then tough that's your problem.
But I will not allow you to continue to perpetrate your "shame game" so-called "passing" ideology upon bi-racial and mixed people beyond the ignorance of yesterday.
I am duty-bound to crush this evil arrogance that leads you to believe that you have the right to "shame" people for being who they are because it does not fit your agenda. Bi-racial people are not black. Get over it. These are the very reason they left your camp.
@@darnabedwell2115 OK we hear you loud and clear . YOU ARE NOT BLACK
@@veraaddoyobo8482
If that was all you got out of reading my comments then it was a waste of your time to read it.
I don't have anything against being black but black folks don't accept me (particularly family) and I'm fine with that. I guess they have their reasons. So I no longer burden them with that obligation.
I have two black brothers whom I adore but they don't even speak to me. Nevertheless I will continue to love and adore them.
@@darnabedwell2115, God bless you, now I see what all your outbursts were about.
I have several family members who have passed for white, including my grandfather. This has always been an interesting topic to me.
Fascinating. Thank you for researching this topic, and for allowing this talk to be posted.
With ancestry in Louisiana, many of my family members have passed out of a desperate necessity. I am ashamed and probably unfairly critical of them. However, I went to a primarily non-black schools living in a white Jewish/Asian neighborhood in liberal/progressive San Francisco.
I sometimes resent being mistaken for non-black. Still, I am guilty of using tokenism where it serves me.
Bochanable I applaud your honesty.. I’m quite annoyed by people who pretend to be either or (flip flop) as it suits them because I thinks it’s inherently disingenuous. Now, after your comment-I just feel sorry for them.
Jamon’e M My parents celebrate the best of our French Creole heritage while freeing themselves from the bigotry and discrimination of Louisiana, unfortunately considered one of the least educated and financially poor states. What would you have done for your family?....my cousins and I are proud to be first generation San Franciscans/Californians while embracing our French Creole culture.
Lot of secrets in Louisiana, light white ones.
Thank you for the outstanding and truly educational presentation.Very informative and some parts are jaw dropping.I particularly had my socks nocked off about the black woman who passed as a white man traveling with her husband portrayed as her slave.wow
I am here bawling for Miss Bea 😭😭
This is one of my favorite topics that I have discussed in my music appreciation eLearning courses.
"Racial ambiguity in American songwriting" as well as "Ethnomusicology and The Great Migration".
You are very inspiring...keep up the great work...and see you at the top!!!
Thank you for this reminder.
Passing came in different situations to fit a more popular narrative for a betterment of life and privileges.
Passing is still happening and in different ways. I think about a guy I knew who snapped at me that he *”WASN’T JUST BLACK!”* during a discussion about black men. I guess I outed him 🤷🏾♂️ But those who get *OFFENDED and UPSET* when they’re thought of as *”JUST BLACK”* (Taye Diggs feelings about his son comes to mind) I’ve often wondered how upset they are when people think that they’re *”JUST WHITE”!*
justifiably so , when you are more informed
Mixed raced people passing as White, is no different than them passing as Black. They are both and not one race.
Mixed race people of black descent are NOT "just black." For example, Taye Diggs' son has a loving white mother and she can't be erased from his DNA. Most people with a loving relationship to BOTH parents acknowledge BOTH parents, just as he wanted to. So even if you couldn't see that man's other ethnicity, he knows of it and rightly demanded that it be acknowledged, too. An empathetic person would have followed up with a question about his full ethnic makeup and an acknowledgement of it. I hope if you ever encounter a mixed-race person who is upset with people who think they are "just white," you will be more understanding.
My mixed-race grandchildren tend to identify as Black although they are racially ambiguous. I encourage them to embrace all of their heritage as they even descend from the Mayflower and Vikings.
We mixed race people are the ones who decides how we identify not white or black people!! We are not in 40s-60s anymore! Most of this generation grow up with our non black parents and have loving homes. The one drop rule is racist and was outlawed years ago. So why can’t people let it go?
My 5th great-grandmother passed as White. Her mother was German/Dutch. Her paternal grandfather was a first-generation Dutchman, and paternal grandmother was half Black, half Mohican Indian. And a sixth great-grandmother was a full-blooded Monacan Indian (showed up in Aunt's DNA test on Ancestry).
Many people who had passed ended up going insane. The trauma of leaving your family, the constant fear of being discovered, the guilt, all so you could have a better life. And they were likely treated differently by their black friends/family before they left, it's just got to be too much for the mind to handle for a lifetime.
Whether very dark or very light, Black Folk are going to catch it
@Mina #9 You don't speak for *all* of us, some of them may have enjoyed it. Family's not important to everyone. Some of those passers could've been uppity sellouts and didn't care about abandoning their family & peers for a better life. Many passers went on to even marry & have kids with a white person, just to wash the black out of their family. Some of them may have had a preference for white people. Black people on average had a different mindset 60+ years ago. There was no black pride sentiment until the Civil Rights Era.
@@Galidorquest
Please explain "No Black Pride sentiment until the Civil Rights Era."
@@destressfrlyf843 The 60's was the end of segregation, the start of the Black Panther/black power afro-movement, the hippie era, etc... Black people don't have much to be proud of besides mostly overcoming racial injustices and anything to do with sports & entertainment. Being black was the worst thing to be prior to the 70's.
@@Galidorquest
¿What do you say about the Niagara Movement and the Harlem Renaissance?
J. Edgar Hoover.
Clark Gable too. I just find it funny every time they play "Gone with the Wind" on TV
@@JerzCe73 Mulengeon.
@@sableindian I have never heard of this word. Thank you for the information. The history is truly interesting.
@@JerzCe73 p
J.Edgar Hoover is a so called white good ole boy, not wasn't, will not give it that.
This is just wonderful. Great job.
I think that people need to stop bullying her. She is a person with feelings and not every feeling has to be expressed. She is just helping to educate people. I bet the ones with the rude comments have kids as bullys.
Or are blacks in hiding
This so-called education this woman is pushing is nothing more than "shame game" propoganda. And it needs to be crushed. It was hurtful and harmful back then. But to continue to perpetrate this arrogance is evil.
TO THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS VIDEO:
Who are you to think that you have the right to continue to afflict people with your "shame game" passing doctrine?
Bi-racial and mixed people are not black. We are not obligated to live under the constrictions of your boundaries. Who do you think you are?
God gave everyone a right to the pursuit of happiness. So you can back off with this crap! My life is mine to live and I don't have to please you! Who do you think you are?
You are pushing an arrogant evil. And I am duty-bound to crush it whenever it flairs its ugly head in my lifetime.
@@darnabedwell2115 lol. What is this about again? My comment was a year ago
@@heathernelson8560
Dear Heather I must apologize to you as my comments did seem to be directed to you when in fact they were directed to the Originator of this video. Please read it again from that perspective.
But my reply to you was to educate you on the evil of the "shame game" propoganda behind this video.
I realize your comments were old but I still wanted you to have the exposure of a different perspective called TRUTH.
Didn't mean to alarm you dear. 🌹
@@darnabedwell2115 no problem. I understand. thank you for clarifying!
Those persons at that time in history did what they personally wanted and somtimes needed to do.
I can't shame them because I was not in their shoes nor the circumstances.
interesting this lecture was meant for me to find it. I've always wondered about this situation. Reminds me of the Millie L. McGhee story of J. E. Hoover passing for white. Thank you for sharing.
Mel Blanc, Sandra Day O'Connor, John Holmes, etc., etc.
@@uncletony6210 Early life
Blanc was born on May 30, 1908 in San Francisco, California, to Eva (née Katz), a Lithuanian Jewish immigrant,[8] and Frederick Blank (born in New York to German Jewish parents)[citation needed], the younger of two children. He grew up in the Western Addition neighborhood in San Francisco,[9] and later in Portland, Oregon, where he attended Lincoln High School.[10] Growing up, he had a fondness for voices and dialect, which he began voicing at the age of 10. He claimed that he changed the spelling of his name when he was 16, from "Blank" to "Blanc", because a teacher told him that he would amount to nothing and be like his name, a "blank".
Loss that outweighed it's rewards. Easy to intellectualize but impossible to know unless you lived it. When Mamie shows up at the work place in Imitation of Life, she could have impacted more than a job, she might have risked her daughter's or her grandchildren's very lives, something most mother's outside Hollywood, would not have been naive or selfish enough to chance. I lived the hatred and fear for one's life that existed in the South. The daily degredation, insults and the poverty that accompanied them, was the true measure of loss. It was a no brainer that if you could have a better life by not being your less dominant race you would grab the chance. The only downside was living the lie that you could never share because it was a line you crossed and those you lied to would hate you if they knew and this was the true punishment, not the folks you loved and left behind but the hatred you know is present in those you come to love.These are the true dynamics often missed in the rhetoric of racial pride or the loss of it; that particular idiom of the line forged in America and absent in Europe; that a single drop of blood should define your life, your destiny as it framed your identity, that you must be hated no matter on what side of the line you chose to live.
Mariam Jensen oh please- the person is a fraud. A self loathing, unappreciative, disrespectful, scapegoating, cop out, selfish parasitic loaf. All you are is because what your family has given to you. That being your very life- how dare a person judge and dismiss their entire family based on race? May God judge
Mariam Jensen Well said 😊
Imitation of Life is deep. My mother forced me to watch it at 13 years old.
We always have a choice. It's whether you are guided by what you know to be right or by what the consequences are you may suffer.
Thank you for posting this!
Update: 10/02/21
According to article in ‘PARADE’ in 2012, a psychologist study showed that children need to know (1) that things don’t always work out (2) and you need to know about your ‘Family History’.
My comments: Find out how your parents and others were treated by who they thought were their parents, grandparents, uncles/aunts, cousins, great uncles/aunts? Who were their enemies and what happened: who got after them, tried to harm them or who tried to kill them or who killed them? Their dates, places of birth, death, marriages? Their children 👶? Did they go to school: where, when and how? Why didn’t they go to school or further their education? When did they leave home and why? Workplaces?
A group member’s comments below: A foundation (family history) is so important ... even if just stories about a parent’s life experiences.
Agreed, we need to raise children to be resilient. The other part psychologists are saying, it is important that parents allow children to solve their own problems. Too often parents step in to fix, but we will not be here forever to solve their problems.
As a child, my mom made sure that I watched and understood both Immitation of Life and Pinkey. Every now and then, they still are shown on tv, but it’s always late at night. I’m sure they’ll show during “Afro History Month.”
Ebony magazine had an article about “passing,” and another about a Caucasian man who chemically changed his skin color and lived as Black in the Deep South.
speerrituall1
How to Make an American Quilt is a bit more current dealing with it.
What did you gain from watching these films growing up? What did it lead you to believe about mixed race people? And the place of blacks within American society?
speerrituall1
ally mcallister it taught me not to be so self loathing as to deny my identity for any reason. Plus more private things...
The name of them book is called, "Black like me" by John Griffith
I have read every comment posted here. As an Octroon who has chosen not to pass from the time I was a small child who was proud to be “colored “, “Negro”, and Black long before James Brown made it popular to be Black and proud I can tell all o’ y’all that unless you have lived it you will never understand it. When I was a teenager my younger brothers and sisters and I were taken from my mother and stepfather and placed into foster care. I had only known poverty and the ghetto until then but from that point I got to see how educated working Black folks who were raised on farms lived, I got to see how educated Black folks who were raised in the city lived, and I got to see how educated working white folks lived. And you know what I found out? It doesn’t matter how light you are or how dark you are there are white folks who just ain’t gonna like you just coz you Black and there are white folks who truly don’t judge ppl by the color of their skin! They wait until they get to know you for the person you are. You know what else I found out? The are Hispanic folks and Black folks like that too! Those are the people that I befriend and associate with. Life is much too short and this world is way too small to live it any other way. Now don’t get me wrong in the privacy of my home and among my intimate family members I sometimes join in the “bashing” conversation if I have had a bad time of it that day or met a particularly ignorant person but I do try to live a peaceful accepting life. Nobody ever said it would be easy but we should all at least try. I’m done and out. To all of you reading this I pray that you will be Blessed as you continue on your life’s path.
Poor J. Edgar Hoover. The worse consequence of passing.
What happened?
Awesome presentation/lecture. That 1934 version of Imitation of Life always make me cry.
The "trope" of the tragic mulatto has been around in literature for quite some time, but what people fail to realize is that these types of stories are based in reality. My great-grandma passed and her husband left her after finding out (this happened in the Deep South in the 1960s and the divorce record literally lists the reason for the divorce as "indignities"...which is basically its own separate category for publicly humiliating a spouse somehow and from state law at the time, as there were classifications for adultery, etc.). Her only daughter (my maternal grandmother) passed, but ended up marrying my grandfather, who was also passing at the time. Crazy! But again, these are/were peoples' REAL LIVES. I can't imagine everything my grandma (and others) gave up, especially knowing the breakdown of the family that happened after she spent all that time living as a white woman to have it all fall apart...my heart breaks for her, and I admire her strength, resilience, and endurance; the difficulty of the choices she had to make is unfathomable and seems so, so lonely.
This video brings to mind the book " Ways of white folks " , written by Langston Hughes . One short story of the book is entitled Passing and tells the story of the mullato dilemma .
I am 60 plus years .My Grandmother told me all about this. A President from Marion Ohio Passed for Caucasian.
It is amazing but not surprising the lengths persons went through to get the goods, services, and social status opportunities allowed from societies that used biological anomalies and a concept called "race" as a way to deny qualified persons their right to a better life.
My great grandmother's brother passed for White. A guy that married into the Family passed as well in the 60's and 70's. He was a policeman
Very fascinating but all too real
I don’t know what is worse: feeling like an outsider within you own race or passing for white.
Some people who are very light make it difficult because they don't want to be Black, and it shows in their attitude.
My mother who's give or take 3/4 black and 1/4 white but you would never know she had a single drop of black in her. I'm proud to say she acknowledged the fact that she was mixed but always referred to herself as a black woman. The fact that we live in Massachusetts which is about a liberal a state as you can find prob didn't deter her from hiding the fact she was mixed. My pops is 100% African American but is naturally light skinned even though my paternal grandparents are dark skin. I inherited the light skin gene but u can clearly tell I'm not white or have very little. I can understand the reason why people would pass themselves off as white but I dont think I could ever do that. I have to much pride and love for myself and the fact that I'm majority African American which is easy to say now I suppose but the fact that people hid their truth and or hated themselves to the point or having the need to pass themselves is just heartbreaking. The psychological aspects of slavery and discrimination along with fact that we've been taught to believe that whiteness and light skin is the model has had such a negative effect on African Americans psychologically, emotionally, etc is something that will be with us for generations.
EXCELLENT! Thank You. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾🙏🏾
I never saw the 1934 version...
Ms Freddie Washington is the reason I must see it
It’s vastly superior to the remake.
At the insistence of her mother she left one community which accepted her to join another community which accepted her (as white) & ultimately viewed these entities as mutually exclusive as a black person really would not be permitted to live as white, legally. Once she became white she ultimately decided to remain that way to protect her new identity. Also 16:22 I never knew the Ellen Kraft story
Fascinating!!!! Ty!!!
For some reason feeling sad for those soul that had to hide their identity.
Many Hispanic women that have indigenous American ancestry and African come to the states as whites on their ID and application and they Love it...
Extremely eloquent!!!!!!
Thank you.
So much material for the silver screen.
That was CRAZY.what if she needed a blood transfusion and the one to save her was her mother.
Noreen Perez
It always happened that they did need a transfusion. That is how they were found out..,
@@bigvalley4987 Yes life is karma!!
Noreen Perez she would have asked for help...& expected to get as she’s the queen of the world!
Excellent! You might have to remind this generation about their heritage and ethnicity while dating or marrying people in other cultures and the how race impact their children later in life.
Exactly...
What the hell are you talking about?!?!, It's 2020. Get with the new program.
@@RaiRaiBrown So:/
@@RaiRaiBrown and what program might that be?
I'm confused as to how Nella and Elsie passed. To me you can clearly see that they are not white.
Elsie came from an elite family with money. I have no idea why she even wanted to pass. I would like to know more of her story. Why did her father not want to help her? Did it have to do with her trying to pass as white?
@@eugeniaskelley5194 money doesn’t matter if you are black. It’s the status and the better treatment that comes with being white they wanted. No amount of money was enough to give them equal status as a black person
This is was an excellent presentation
So this is the Original 1934 "Imitation of life" film, I've never seen this one but i have seen the 1959 remake with popular stars of that time, Lana Turner Sandra Dee Juanita Moore and Susan Kohner, very sad but good movie, aside from that i thank you for this very informative and enlightening presentation.
People living 500 years from today will say how stupid of this.
Excellent
What happened to Blacks who "passed", who had
Black babies? Where is coverage of this reality?
I would love to see that
That's the chance you take when you "pass" for white. Sometimes the genes of your hidden family show up when it's least expected.
@Rodney Norman I don't remember her ever trying to pass. They just didn't talk about it. I think there is a difference.
Back in the day some of them would choose not to have children on purpose for that reason . Or if the child came out dark they would tell people.they had Italian or Spanish blood in them to explain it
There are still plenty of Blacks passing.
It explains the madness in Amerikkka, understanding this is the job.
I recently read “The Vanishing Half” by Brit Bennett. Heartbreaking. I am Jewish, and have cousins whose surname was deliberately changed from Epstein to Eaton, so they could get into more prestigious colleges.
Epstein is a good name to change
EXCELLENT
I had family members who did this in the early 1940
What's missed in the conversation of passing is how those who appeared white were treated by members of the black/ African American community. While the white social benefits are too often discussed there is a lack of discussion of how a non black appearance opens the door to being a lower class member of the black community and therefore not treated as an equal within that community... in many ways an outsider within the community they are accustomed to~ the community they were raised within.
ally mcallister I am a 70 year old lady now but I remember when I was in school I was too white to be black into black to be white sad to say but that's what went on back then probably still going on today in 2018
Midnight what you say may be possible... it may be possible that there was conflict between the passers and those who could not pass... just as there is conflict between people today... just like the narrative of the speaker~ you to are choosing to focus on the experience of non-passing blacks. As this speaker made this topic about "passing". So I will go back onto the topic at hand. Again, there is no perspective given in this film about the treatment of mixed men & women by blacks during the time period she is speaking of. As a better life could've meant more than finances and racism. It's possible these people were ostracized within their community and mistreated within their community. There's a interview of Ertha Kitt on CZcams you can watch~ where she shares her experience... As if the mistreatment of mixed race people by blacks doesn't happen. And no one with any education discusses it. It's always as if we have done something wrong because of our appearance. Then it's tit for tat~ the dark skinned people face it.., ok, so then why be the one to do it to someone else~ especially fellow member of your community? The victim becomes the villain... To excuse their own behavior. And deny it at the same time.
Judy Vaughn thank you for sharing! As I think too many people think there is a privilege of light skin. Not knowing that for many it's a two sided conflict. Thank you~ Thank you
I know. I know a young woman who I know that is black and her husband is light skinned black(his skin is almost white and his hair color is light brown) because his mother is white. She was saying to me that very thing that light skinned black people have it better than darker skinned blacks. I asked her who had it easier? She or her husband and she had to admit she did. They have 3 children and one is light skinned and looks biracial like his father. they are bothered by this and keep hoping he will "darken" but he is a toddler now so I don't think he will.
I agree like it is a badge of honor and noticed throughout most of these videos. . .Smh.. . in which SADLY still practiced today!
Great presentation...if the USA wasn’t so hell bent on racial and class distinctions, ppl would not have been subjected to “passing.” It’s an atrocity that many ppl have to do that to survive and be treated respectfully, Really, due to what has been going on for ages, there is no “pure” race! Not in America, I wish the country comes to grips with that fact.
I agree, and obama has done much harm to this whole race thing......
Until he came along, things were going well from my perspective, but he stoked things up and sent race relations back decades. He made a career out of it. Swindled blacks to vote for him, and now he lives in Martha's Vineyard as far from the black population as he could possibly get !
He wants nothing to do with blacks.
Prove me wrong.
He only used blacks to get his objectives.
Thank Woodrow Wilson and following Presidents and European leaders, that followed his racist agenda.
Having known a gay woman passing in conservative Tennessee, this presentation is an insight into her world. I am sure one would find challenges that could lead to embitterment if assimilation is difficult.
i wonder if she used Soledad O'Brian's photo on her last slide as a example of modern day passing. I saw the NBC logo in the lower left corner, but the cameraman didn't zoom out so I could confirm.
Remember Pinky was that along the same lines
Judy Vaughn yes
I saw pinky too, that was good
And so was the movie high yellow
There's a story like this that my Grandmother told me about her uncle. Only he didn't have a happy ever after not looking back ending like hers . My great great great uncle was found out and was poisoned with gasoline and killed.
😢
That’s terrible. 😢
Wow
Poor man.😢
Great topic but would have been nice to see what was shown on the screen.
She did show it you must have turned it off before it ended,
This is so interesting...
A well-presented documentation.
Absolutely excellent
A.D. Powell has an awesome common sense book you can buy on Amazon called Passing for what you are" ! Highly recommend it for the intellectual curious!!
If u are predominantly White you are White, one doesn't have to be 100% White to be White just as one doesn't have to be 100% Black to be Black or Chinese or Japanese or Native American!!
Unless you have walked a mile in a mixed person's shoes, you cannot judge them for their choices. Mixing is done by two individuals of different races. That was THEIR choice! Mixed people are caught in the middle.
Understandable Self Preservation......A Better Life, Only in America.
No purity in this country. We are all human beings.
I recently just read a book called passin.
I like that older version of imitation of life better then the later version..
I'm reading the comments and I think it is understandable that if you could pass YOU WOULD. Being black meet hurt and pain even death just for being.
Elsie's dad was absolutely right to not assist her financially when she felt that it was fine to not identify as his black daughter!
Her killing herself was as selfish as her not claiming her heritage.
She obviously felt that she'd rather die white than live black.
I feel for her family, not her!
Passing is a choice, not a necessity.
I concur!
Girl what . It wasn’t a choice especially in those circumstances
@@jadawalker3524 I can understand she wanting to pass to realize her dreams but at the same time she came from a well to do family. One might argue that although her opportunities were limited she had much more opportunities, advantages and privilege than if she was born into a less economically advantaged family.
In this particular case it was a choice. It was a necessity, often, in the past out of sheer survival.
I had relatives that could've passed but they never would do it said they were proud of who they were
Neighbors of mine, when visiting their grandmother in a Boston department store knew better than to refer to her as Nana when visiting her counter. Researching a branch of my own family revealed that my 2nd great-grandparents were recorded as being white in a census in the mid 19th century. My great grandparent went from mulatto in a southern census but became Black when they moved to Boston at the turn of the 20th century.
Great story
brilliant movie
💕 BRILLIANT
Imitation of Life was such an eye opening yet sad movie on the reality of life for Americans because of its history. People are forced to deny themselves.
I never seen this before but I wish the ending could have been that he accepted her and they lived there life. Glad she was able to return home though.
Fascinating topic! I wish she would have talked, not read, her presentation. It would have made it more of a conversation than a presentation. The audience would have been more engaged than they were. These are critiques of presentation, however the substance of her presentation is just excellent.
Marie Nubia-Feliciano that is because she was bullshittin'!
How she articulates her written little lecture is further proof that she, indeed is a fuckin fraud!
Mamuwalde Voudou Practitioner That’s your argument⁉️ Are you serious⁉️ Pathetic‼️ Bye Felicia
The presentation should be memorized like an actor does.
I think she speaks/sounds exactly like Kimberly Guilfoyle (Trump Jr’s girlfriend)
Why is this important now ...we have been knowing this 4ever
It did it definitely had a profound reflection on family and sentiments because some of those that passed weren't able to acknowledge their families that were black they weren't able to go see their families that were black they weren't able to even talk to their families that were black because if they did it would open up a whole new door so passing was a lot complicated than people think it was it was very hard on on both ends as far as social aspects because one you had to abandon your whole entire family you had to make a hard decision to abandon sometimes your children your husband everybody so that you could survive and then on the other end a lot of them embrace their passing embrace their African heritage and they only pass to go to work and took to get food and to survive for the whole family so it it it it is definitely a situation that needs to be talked about and better yet been none people are still passing to this day I still using to highlight a better life for themselves when they know that you know they're pretending or they're using their Whiteside
Omgosh my heart broke when mama hung her head😒
Mama's character endured tremendous suffering in this story. She literally died of a broken heart.
My mom used to make me watch this movie while I was on punishment for being rude/a brat it was horrible I cried everytime 😭😭
The made for tv movie Queen, starring Halle Berry has a retching scene where the protagonist's daughter denies her mother in front of a white suitor
Apparently J. Edgar Hoover ‘passed’.
5:53 The moment we all came here for... (Imitation of Life movie scene clip)