In this video I review the things I really like about this rifle and one major thing I really don't like. I test Federal Terminal Ascent ammo and some of my handloads.
Morning man. Featherweights can be a booger. I have had a few and altho ALL where made ta shoot. As advised ALL NEEDED BEDDING WORK!! When ya see consistent flyers, THINK BEDDING. Terminal ascent bullets are the ultimate!
I truly don't think there's anything wrong with the rifle. It's a pure, classic-style hunting rifle, through and through. Not designed for benchrest shooting(doesn't have the materials and design for that). This is common with Featherweights(or just about any classic old school hunting rifle actually): first two shots almost touch, then after that the group goes down hill. That's purely the old fashioned pairing of an old school designed featherweight barrel that heats up super fast and a wood stock that begins expanding the moment you start shooting. (it's purely for hiking through the woods with, looking for that venison.) They weren't meant to take more than 1 or 2 shots with..... After that, you weren't suppose to still be sitting at a bench rest shooting, you were suppose to be gutting and dragging something heavy out of the woods. Cheers and best luck to you!
Iam so lucky i have rem from 1970 ,80 ,90 and 1 made 2018 the old rem shoot half inch groups at 100 yards about the same at 200. 06 is my babies. All 4 of them. Small town man god bless you all and this great land.
After seeing nothing but synthetic stocks on rifles lately, that wood is truly a refreshing change from the mundane. Wouldn't mind getting my hands on one chambered in .300 WinMag.
I own 3 of these rifles. 2 30-06 and 1 338 Mag. What I did was epoxy bed them. I would HIGHLY suggest that if it isn’t done. Marine Tex Grey. Many people on CZcams showing how it’s done. I’m sure you’re familiar with floating barrels etc. if it were me I would reinstall base, rings scope to be sure. Process of elimination. Then bed the rifle. THEN work on loads. As you know there is so much involved. Seating depth was huge also. I know you’ve probably heard all this but this is what helped me
A few points, always load from the magazine as it is controlled round feeding and the extractor will break, eventually. When shooting a feather weight you need the sand bag under the fore end tip, whilst at the same time holding the forfend part of the stock with your left hand (assuming your right handed) as in an off hand style. this technique will give you better groups which the M70 is capable of. Try 53gn to 55gn of H4350 with a 150gn bullet. I have 5 feather weights, crash feed and crf and they can all shoot 1/2 inch groups.
ahhh. negative on the extractor breaking. old tang rugers were a push feed with a claw extractor, the claw on the rugers jumps the the case of the shell every time. my ruger is 43 years old, killed over 150 deer. the claw extractor is almost spring steel. shot thousands of rounds through the gun over the years. ive never owned a winchester, almost bought one yesterday. i'm not impressed with firing pin lock time...after watching a few videos on these winchesters i decided not to purchase it...
@kimstocks4485 your correct in regards to the Ruger's as they are a highbred on the Mauser design. FN 98 Mausers had a cut out in the action to allow the extractor to snap over the rim, if need be, but not recommended as a rule. The original Mausers broke extractors hence why it's not a good idea to push your luck. In regards to the Model 70 lock time, get a new spring from Wolf springs and replace it, which I have done on a few occasions. All working perfectly.
@@warpspeednow thx for the tip, so is it possible on these new winchesters to break the claw extractor if they have to jump the rim? having the most reliable fire arm possible is a must where i hunt...my old trusty m77 's plunger spring is getting a little weak and i can't find a replacement...
@kimstocks4485 It possible to break if you continually make the extractor jump the rim but not likely since most rounds, if not all, are fed from the magazine. On the rare occasions where a round is not fed from the magazine, it won't be a problem. I have had no problems at all with my model 70's and in my humble opinion they are a rugged and reliable rifle. I don't get too hung up on accuracy as the first shot is the most important.
Sometimes the scope rings are not installed properly or they could be cheap scope rings that is causing micro-shifting of the scope after every shot. You don’t want them torqued down too tight or too loose. Use a laser boresight, confirm the zero with 1 round, then put the laser bore sight back in. Look and see if it has shifted. If it has, it is definitely not the rifle.
Check the throat on that thing. I’ve had 3 winchesters recently (last 5 years) where lands start at different spots to the extent of a. 1/4” so hard to get accuracy when bullet isn’t hitting all lands square.
Having reloaded for 60+ years and being a collector of rifles I think you need to start with all the basics and keep track of each one. Tom over at Simple living has run into Winchester model 70 problems too and by doing basic elimination you will make it a lot better! I had a feather weight that I let my brother in law borrow and he got the stock very wet from coastal hunting and the outside of the stock looked fine but the barrel bedding was so bad I had to replace the stock to get it to shoot MOA. I first spent days at the range trying all the common problems.
Great review. Very thorough. Just an FYI but I recently got a Bergara Hunter in 06 and it too shot the most terrible groups of almost 3” at 100yds with the 175gr Terminal Ascent. Highly disappointing because the box is over $80 here in Canada with tax. I was thinking of getting a Featherweight but they are behind in production and none in the gun stores in Western Canada anyway. But great review. 😊 This is what shies me away from the Win Featherweight. I was looking at a 270 but I kept hearing and seeing CZcams vids showing the accuracy was inconsistent. So I got a Tikka in 270 n 7 Rem. Both shoot factory ammo very accurately. 1” groups in 3 different factory ammo for 270 n so far 2 brands in the 7 Rem
I bought one of the very last featherweights they chambered in 280 Remington a few years ago. Best is that it was $889 from buds guns haha - PreCovid. Mine is definitely not that picky. It’s around MOA with everything, a little over and a little under sometimes. 140 grain Barnes handloads were best - maybe .06 MOA but Barnes factory shoots (2994 fps) about 1.25, not terrible. I’m in CA so how it shoots with copper is really all that matters. I have shot some lead and it shot Federal Blue Box amazingly well, sub MOA for sure. I unfortunately scratched the barrel hunting last year and ended up putting midnight blue cerakote on it. It still looks great. Send it somewhere like Hill Country Rifles for accurizing. I feel a Winchester 70 is worth working with and spending money on. Most others I’d say dump it. But wood stocked guns with actions that smooth are starting to disappear and/or get very expensive. Now a lot of the guns shoot but look like cheap, synthetic crap to me. Browning X-bolts are my other favorite rifle - I’ve owned a bunch and they’ve all been extremely accurate, sturdy and reliable. I think Browning/Winchester/FN is the best gun company currently along with Weatherby and Tikka/Sako. But all of them are having to cut costs now…
Got my son a black shadow for his 12th birthday gift. After a few years of not being able to get it to group well and doing all sorts of things I discovered the chamber was reamed wrong at the factory. Winchester replaced it with the a top of the line stainless rifle after I gave them an earful and it is a tack driver. Measure your fired brass and make sure it’s to spec otherwise I’d start A check list scope, scope bases rings stock torque bedding etc etc Just worked on a savage for my sons friends father. It had the wrong bases so scope was all out of line the scope turrets would turn when u put the caps on . Put a picrail and tps rings Burris scope and it’s well with in 2moa with cheap ammo
Actually the story about where the current Winchester model 70s are made is interesting. The barrel and reciever are made in FN's plant in Columbia South Carolina but final assembly is done in Portugal. Sources for info on this a segment on the model 70 from the NRA plus Winchester Customer service. I've seen photos on Gun broker with pictures of the side of the box which states Made in USA assembled in Portugal. Now if I was to own a model 70 mine would have to be either the Alaskan or Supergrade I like a standard contour barrel myself.
I have the exact same rifle. I would try a different scope of it. If that fails then I would either return it to Winchester or if not then I would fully bed and float it. Wishing you all the best because I know how frustrating this can be.
My learning curve has just begun. I bought a M70 carbine in ‘06 a month ago with junk glass. Threw it out and put a nice enough Nikon on top and haven’t gotten to the range yet. The featherweight would be the closest in weight to what I have so I’m paying attention. No longer reload so I’m praying that I find a factory load before the money runs low and I’m sleeping in a box. Worked loads for a past M70 in 270 and found that gun liked rounds that weren’t screaming hot. Tamed the loads down about a grain and a half from recommended and it did great. I’m looking forward to the process of finding out this carbine’s personality and dialing it in. Also praying that the recoil isn’t brutal. Thanks for the video, keep ‘em coming.
I watched a video on that exact gun recently. A bore scope showed that the lands were not square which is a sign of sloppy craftsmanship. A bore scope is a good idea. He was having a lot of copper build up in a few rounds because of that. If it were mine I would send it in to browning or have a gunsmith (a good one) look at it. I rebarreled mine with a Douglas medium contour in 6.5 06 and it shoots 1/2” groups all day. Factory rifles have been declining in workmanship where it matters for years. Custom rifles are very expensive but deliver in performance usually. The only other thing you might try is free floating the barrel or bedding it. I’ve seen that work quite often if done properly. Something is shifting your point of impact and that is the likely culprit. Good luck.
I have a featherweight m70 from the 80s in 30-06 I've ran a lot of different types of ammo threw it but the 1 it absolutely loves is factory barnes 168 TTSX ammo it shoots sub MOA with it at 100 yards it is my go to hunting riffle. I can't say I have any experience with the newer model 70s but the pre64s and the ones from the 80s I've owned or shot have always been solid shooters once you find what they like
The action screw pressure can be critical on wood stocks. If pillars aren't installed, pressure will vary and groups will bounce around. To me it looks like the action is ok because it will put two close and throw the third. A stable foundation is key.
I had almost this exact same thing with a Remington 700. Plastic trigger guard had cracked. So action screws weren’t set. Would “throw” almost every other shot.
I’ve got a lot of experience with lightweight rifles, Model 70 Featherweight, Model 7 Remington, and Kimber Montana. You can shoot them like you do a bench rest beast; should be holding the forearm or down on the scope. First thing to check are the scope mounts, use a torque driver. Check the action screws, use a torque driver at the correct inch pounds. Then maybe switch scopes. And, then, if all else fails, have it pillar and glass bedded. If nothing helps, I’m sure somebody else will give it a good home.
I have a feather weight in 7mm wsm . Had to use small base dies to get it to group . Also controlling the recoil was a big thing on my gun for good groups . Try griping the forend or putting your hand on top of the scope.
I have an early 90’s M70-30-6 made in USA. I get great results with Win Fail safe 165 grain. Fortunately I stocked up on it b4 discontinued but always get #3 jump. I attribute it to thin barrel, and lightweight. But it’s great when you cover many mikes and hills in a day. Where I have hunted I don’t expect to ever get a 3rd shot. My Springfield m 1903 surplus never jumps.
Well, I had the same sort of issue with a Feather Weight M-70 that I bought in 1981 in 7 x 57, I could not get it to shoot well. I really liked the rifle and I sent it out to a gunsmith, he did a bedding job on it and reworked the trigger a little and It shot very well after that, My load of choice 50 gr of IMR-4350 W-W case and a 140 gr Nosler Partition. I will be coin that having the gun rebeeded would cure the issues.
Had an early 243 Featherweight and it was super picky as well. Only thing that worked was Sierra 70 grain HPBT Matchking's. It went from 3 inch groups to .4's.
I have the sporter with the 24” and mine groups best with 150 gr pro hunter and 150 core-lokt in factory ammo. I’m working on some 180 AB loads for Elk
I own 2 of those rifles. 1 is from the 80s and the other is 2010. Both love 150 grain loads. Check your torque on your action screws. Also, If there is a screw in or just behind the magazine, loosen it to about thumbnail tight. One of my rifles gave me fits until I figured that out. Now it shoots .6-.8 with most factory 150s.
I've been reloading a 175 gr SMK for my Weatherby and 1903A3 Springfield. My powder charge sweet spot is around 49.5 to 50.0 gr of Accurate Arms 4064. Books list the velocity around 2700 to 2750 fps. Could be a very similar powder being used in the Terminal Ascent factory load.
RW, that's a beautiful rifle. It's a shame it doesn't shoot better. Sometimes we all get one that is just a project. I know that I've had a few that should be sent down the road. I just don't feel right sticking someone with a rifle that just won't shoot. I do have a 70 Super Grade that won't group. It's an early return to the claw extractor, Winchester/USRAC. But it has beautiful walnut and I'm hoping to get it right. Someday. Don't give up on that one yet.
My dad had a 30-06 from WWI era and he had all kinds of accuracy issues with various loadings. Finally he tried 220 grain round nose and they were sub MOA. It might be worth a try…
+ Only change one thing at a time. Check all fasteners first. Then rule out defective scope. Then consider micro-bedding receiver. Then take those 178 grainers and mic your freebore distance. Etc, etc
You can't blame the rifle. Factory rifle acceptable groups. Handloads don't help, especially if you really aren't loading to the potential of the loads and techniques. Bedding the actions, and having the right height cheek comb on the butt and good shooting technique too, trigger pull weight., anticipating the shot, squirming as the shot goes off, etc.... is essential.
Oh man I know the feeling! I spent a lot of money hunting for a decent hand load for my featherweight Savage 270 and nothing seemed to be satisfying. It seems obvious now that the pencil thin barrel was the issue. The very thing that made that rifle as light as it was. When I got my Shilen barrel that added about a pound to the rifle, It became my most accurate hunting rifle to date. It was a trade that I would make 100 times! It went from nothing shooting to. anything shooting. Almost anyways...
The barrel is so thin on the featherweight. Im shooting a 7mm rem mag and know that I can only group 2 rounds with it until the barrel completely cools. The 3rd is always 2 inched higher with mine, I guess its what you get when you buy a lightweight hunting rifle.
If everything is correct with the reloads...... It sounds like it may be a barrel issue. I believe there are a couple screws on the bottom of the action. Make sure they are tightened to spec or even play with them a little and see if that improves anything. And make sure the barrel is not touching the stock anywhere. Anyway, it sounds like the barrel or screws on the bottom of action. I'd try that and go from there.... if it doesn't work, send it back to them
Have one since the mid 80s. Took it to a gunsmith for a bent firing pin. The first words out of his mouth when he called me that first night after test firing was, "Can I interest you in a good recoil pad?"
Have a Remington trued action with a PacNor barrel in 30-06 and with respect to bullets, it liked the 168 TSX and TTSX best as well with H4350. I was able to get multiple loads for it but the Barnes was best. My opinion, take that rifle to a good smith, pillar bed the stock, true the action, put a chrome moly replacement barrel on it from the maker of your choice, many have them in stock, get it blued to match the action, keep the old barrel, then start over. I think Douglas and Wilson barrels are least expensive and they will out shoot that factory barrel but if $ not an issue, get a stainless steel barrel from whomever you want. All of my Ruger and Remington blued actions have stainless steel bead blasted barrels. I think they look fine
Yes this is the truth. Old school featherweight barreled and wood rifles didn't shoot sub moa, you were lucky most times if you could get 2" out of them(you would have to spend 3 to 4 thousand dollars(which would be 6-7 thousand dollars or more adjusted for todays inflation) on a custom built target rig, in order to get sub moa. These types of rifles are designed for shot in the woods and then dragging something home....not bench resting for precision.
Ive got some data for BARNES TSX 180s with subpar groups. I cannot get any overlapping groups @100yds so i scrapped it but my relatives love and use the load i developed😁 If you love the Accubond so much you should develop them for your '06 and you wont have any what ifs when you line up your cross hairs on that Buck only confidence👍👍
FN/Browning bought Winchester in 2006 if I remember. They started making the model 70 shortly after and production was in the USA up until about 13 or 14. The receiver will say made in the USA if you have a USA made gun.
Your results mirror my results with a Winchester Model 70 Compact I bought a couple of years ago in 7mm-08. I tried several different factory loads of varying bullet weights, along with handloads using different components, and the rifle shot horribly. I also varied the bullet seating depths, to no avail. Sometimes it would put two rounds within 1/2" from each other, then it would throw the next shot 2-3" away (yes, I realize it has a thin-profile barrel). I tried different torque settings on the action screws, as well as putting a temporary pressure pad under the barrel (sometimes it works, in my experience), but that didn't help either. I finally placed the gun on consignment, but I did tell them of my troubles with the gun; whether they passed the information on to the buyer, I don't know, but I suspect not for the reason I will get to shortly. It's a pity the rifle performed so poorly because it was the prettiest long gun I've ever owned, or likely ever will own. It was replaced with a Weatherby Vanguard, also chambered in 7-08 and, though a bit picky on loads, it lives up to Weatherby's three-shot MOA guarantee. Winchester, and the people who build their rifles, really need to get their act together. You guys (Winchester) can only coast on looks and past glory for so long. There is no excuse to put out inaccurate, inconsistent guns like this today, especially at the prices you are charging. I don't believe I will ever buy another Winchester product again. Anyway, a couple of months after I sold the gun I saw it again on the used gun rack at Scheels. I knew it was the same rifle from the serial number. Apparently, I wasn't the only one to find it was a problem child. Just as an aside, I own a Browning X-bolt Speed in .30-06 and it is a true MOA shooter, and I don't need to jump through hoops to get it to do so.
With the first two shots generally being super accurate(almost touching) it has to be due to the old fashioned pairing of a super thin, lightweight barrel, obviously to keep the weight down for carrying hunting, coupled with traditional wood for the stock. The fact that it happens after two shots seems to clearly show that it is the heat to the barrel and heat transfer to the wood and that seems to go in line with what old timers experienced for decades with traditionally made, wood-stocked, thin/featherweight type barrels. ie; it's a pure hunting rifle and not suited for precision benchrest target work. The way I see guns is the are very specific tools that have strength on one end and give up something on the other end of virtues. I own a Model 70 Supergrade and I never even bother bench resting it for supreme accuracy(I use a custom Howa for that with all the new material trimmings and attributes and cut 1/2 MOA holes at a benchrest with it). But for a cold, crisp, Fall TN morning, hiking up and through the deep wooded ridges, looking and listening for that wonderful 'snort'...there's just something special about feeling that checkered walnut in hand, paired with old fashioned blued steel and a Leupold optic on top, that can't be described...I think that's purely what they were invented for. Cheers and best luck to you.
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is both lugs touching the action well. I loaded for a Sporterized Springfield for years and had good luck with IMR 4895. Match loads made in the 40s used this powder.
I have the same rifle in 308. I’d change the scope and make sure all screws are tight. Mine was pre Covid and accuracy was not great but it was consistently around 2 inches .However after around 100 rounds accuracy became much better usually sub MOA.
I love Mine in 7X57, BUT I am having to do things like TORQUE Action screws and. adjust the factory 2-point bedding with a Dremel to make it shoot MOA. There is like a bedding shelf, out in front of the recoil lug, like a glob of ooze. I ground that down some so it is free floated ALL THE WAY TO THE LUG and would not alter POI due to heat at that area which may be chamber. Before it was 2 and 2.5, would group 2 and throw a flyer. Now it's more like 1.08, 1.03. So it's tightening up. Better with Norma Brass instead of PPU too. It is great as Minute of DEER at reasonable Max Point Blank ranges, not 1000 yard "sniper-wanna-be" ranges. 70 Featherweights are "particularly picky people" I will agree. I love the look and feel of the rifle and will always keep it even if it goes to "Minute of Rock Throwing. :)
That is a beautiful rifle. I don't think I'd be able to take it hunting. Luckily my beater .30-06 Savage 111 topped with a Vortex 3-9x Crossfire II shoots better than I can with any 180 grain bullet I've put in it so far. The synthetic stock can be flexed quite a bit if you try but it doesn't contact the barrel in any shooting position I use and is ugly enough that I had no qualms about doing a rattle can camo job on it. I feel no guilt laying this rifle on the moss when I stop for a coffee break in the woods.
Are action screws tight? Is the barrel floated correctly? Mine barrel was touching so i had a gunsmith sand it to floating again. Mine is a constant 1- 1.5 inch gun. 6.5 mememoor
Bed the action. Also are you adjusting bullet seating depth to get the bullet jump to the rifling that this gun might like the most? I have several newer MOD 70's and they all shoot great. My 30-06 MOD 70 Classic shot best with H4350 and Sierra 165&180 bullets, did best with near full loads. I have one 270 sporter that shot better after bedding the action. My model 70's in 243 and 270 all shoot well with Federal Fusion ammo. Good luck.
Watch some Simple Living with Tom Rivers videos. He is excellent at figuring accuracy problems out. He usually will run a bore scope down the barrel and sometimes that tells the story.
I'm a Winchester model 70 owner myself, All Weather SS, I got lucky it can shoot toe to toe with some factory rifles designed for competition. The Winchester model 70 either has match grade accuracy or they are picky as hell and are poor shooters. It's usually a barrel problem. Watch Tom River's channel. He does a good job of going through the rifle and diagnosing the problem. I think it's a crown or throat problem causing excessive copper fouling. I'd get it bedded properly. Take it to a gunsmith. I know another guy who had a similar issue. He had the gunsmith run a chamber reamer through the chamber and had said barrel re crowned. The issue is that they are using dull tooling from the factory. Of course, factories are trying to fill in back orders from the recent shortage. They are pumping rifles out as quickly as possible, sometimes using sub-par tooling due to supply chain issues. Also, fitting the rifle with a new barrel is an option. A Winchester model 70 with a Lija or Hart barrel would be the cats ass.
I have the same gun.Great looking gun I to had trouble finding a load that’s groups good. So far my best 165gr hornady interlock with 51.7 gr of varget.
Every model 70 I have had to test bullets and powder. Some took awhile a while but after finding the right combination, they all shoot 1/2 inch groups.
I have the exactly same setup, but mine do pretty well with cheap ammo I bought in the Walmart. Ive tried federal 150gr power shock, and Winchester 168gr power point, they both shoot .60 moa which is better than my reload…. So I don’t know.😅
Two things to look at, one leading to the other. 1. Make sure the magazine box liner is not bound between the action and bottom metal. This is common. There needs to be 10-20 thou. clearance here. If it is tight, you are binding the action and killing accuracy. 2. IF the box was bound, once you file the box liner for clearance, the factory bedding will no longer be inlet deep enough. You will need to tear it out and re-bed the rifle. No, you should not have to do this to a new rifle, but it is what it is. Once you do these, I bet you will be very happy with the rifle's accuracy after.
The Win 70 is a true classic rifle and I really like them. I would start by doing a proper glass bedding to see how it would shoot. I have never seen any rifle shoot the Swift Scirocco bullet well.
Featherweights have always been little picky but thats extreme! I would of sent it back to winchester have them look at it. A buddy of mine had a extreme weather that did the same in 25 06. He sent it back and had the issues resolved. It had to do with the chamber. His barrel was replaced
Very strange indeed, you seem to have the skills, I don't question that. The rifle is made by FN, assembled in Portugal and imported to the US through the Browning subsidiary, also owned by FN. They are famous for high quality components. Might I suggest investigating the optics platform, bases, and always check rings for alignment, lap if neccesary. Many new rings are not machined well, 2 piece bases add to alignment issues also. Also check the action screws. That rifle should do a Lot better than that. FN has great barrels.
did they replace the vital-shok? my 7mm rem mag loves the vital-shoks, but i believe they are now discontinued. i thought i heard somewhere, that this bullet replaced them.
@@zzz7zzz9 no they still make vshoks but there not that popular anymore. There is still a cpl runs a year w vshoks loaded in . The terminal accent are awesome though. I only hunt w those now. There slayers
I assume you've checked all the normal stuff; barrel actually free floated, action screws properly torqued, scope properly torqued, inspected the crown? Was there any barrel break in done?
I had one of these rifles, though it was much older... probably mid 80s..... same problems. Also, it kicked like a mule! So bad infact, that it broke a very very nice nikon scope. That is what ultimately lead to me deciding to sell it.... still regret that. That was the last gun i sold..... 19 yrs ago. I wont sell another. Once they are mine, they will be mine until my daughter inherits them.
Have you considered getting a gun smith to look it over? Something has to be off, that is horrible. I had a Weatherby vanguard in 308 that did not shoot any factory ammo worth a darn. I would get groups similar to what you have on that 30-06. Almost wondering if they royally screwed the machining on that barrel.
My 308 Win featherweight short action (bought 1984) likes Rem Green box 150 grain PSP very well, first two shots are within an inch but as the barrel heats up the rounds walk to the right. Some of your groups look like that is happening, two shots close and one to the right. You just have to do a two shot group. If you try to zero with three shots you will go nuts. The gun hunts great. It's not a good range gun due to barrel getting hot and of course the recoil.
I would check your action screws and barrel channel first. Then try another scope. Then try some standard cup and core bullets, if you cant get it to shoot 180 or 165 grain Hornady Interlocks, or Sierra Game Kings, you have a sick rifle. And as the other gentleman noted, feed it from the magazine. The extractor is beveled to snap over the cartridge in a pinch, but eventually it will break if that continues. I have two newer Model 70's, one from 2019 in .270, and the other from 2021 in .30-06. They are both accurate, the one in .30-06 is phenomenally accurate. I generally load it with 180 grain Hornady, Interlock, Spire point, flat base bullets. With Ramshot Hunter powder, Remington 9 1/2 Mag. Primers, i get sub one inch groups, and just a tick below 2,800 fps. Its my go to, and yes its old and boring, but it just flat works. Ive loaded that same 180 Hornady in various. 300 Magnum's for friends and family for 25 years, numerous deer 🦌 and elk taken, has worked splendidly.
My exact same experience. Max charge if Ramshot hunter under a 180 gr Sierra pro hunter with a winchester magnum primer. 2770 ft/sec and sub MOA from my featherweight and my extreme weather 30-06
Consider 2 shots from the terminal ascent almost touched. The flyer is due to something being very different between the shots. In my experience paper is cheap and ammo is expensive. I use Redfield Sight-in targets but only the centers. Line your crosshairs up on each of the heavy bars. Same amount of orange showing on all 4 crosshairs. That way you are pointing at the same place exactly. I had a model 70 featherweight chambered in .308 Winchester many years ago. Got rid of it when I observed my wife hunting with it and saw all the flashes of light coming from the shiny floor plate and barrel. It was very accurate with my handloads of blc2 and 165 Nosler Partitions. It took trimming all my cases to the same length for equal neck tension and finding the correct overall length. Invest in a case gauge. You can get a lot of very important information by dropping each resized and then loaded round into the case gauge. Currently have a Model 70 SSM chambered in 30-06. It loves Federal 165 gr Trophy Bonded ammunition. A close second is Federal Fusion 165 gr.
I got a newer model 70 in 300 win mag my rifle hated everything only shot 168 ttsx good so i rebarreld it with a custom hart barrel and trud action now shoots everything good
My model 70 in 30-06 is just as picky. Mine was made in the 70s so it is a very different gun then yours. I did notice an improvement in groups when holding on to the forend to keep it from jumping up. Maybe its just me but you could try a few different shooting techniques. Some guns like to be held tight and some don't.
Have you checked the scope mounts and scopes I would start there. Then I would go to a gunsmith that knows how to work on Mauser style actions. Have the barrel changed and and action blue printed. I had a model 70 in 375 H&H that had this problem as well. Sent it out got a Timney trigger, Schlien barrel, Pilar and glass bedded and blue printed. Now it is a sub Moa gun.
The new model 70s just always seem to lack the tack driving abilities I crave in a bolt gun. I bought my first weatherby vanguard few years ago. And that's all I'll buy now. There un matched for price vs features and all quality metals.
Remington arms did my 700 270 for free it touch 3 at a 100 yds. And my win feather light mod. 70 shot great out of the box, and got better when it is fowled 👍
Relieve the barrel first. Then bed the action. If that doesn't work then go to full barrel bed. Light weights always group two, then toss for some reason. Sounds easy to fix.
I currently have 4 Model 70s of Portugal manufacture, 3 Super Grades and an Alaskan. Two in 308 and two in 3006. All theses rifles shoot at an inch or better if I do my part. I did have a Model 70 in 308 that I could not get to shoot that was made in the US shortly before manufacturing left the US. I had a gunsmith render an opinion and he thought the bore was slightly overbore, needless to say I no longer have the rifle. However,the other Model 70s will be with me until I die…. I would try and rebed that rifle before I got rid of it, unless it is still under warranty and then I would send it back to Winchester . The feather weight barrels are so light that they heat up very fast, I would only shoot two rounds at a time and let the barrel cool for 10 minutes……. Also, you might try FLAT BASED Bullets, they stabilize in a shorter distance, I now use mostly flat based bullets for that reason. One last suggestion would be to put your left hand on the scope and hold the rifle as steady as possible when shooting for a group. I tried this at someone’s recommendation and my group sizes decreased……. There is lots of rifle jump before the bullet escapes the barrel, especially on light weights….. I ENJOY YOU VIDEOS, Thank you…….
I have a 1990's genuine Winchester made in New Haven version of that rifle in .308. I bought it via a private sale, the owner's son had it and couldn't get it to shoot to his satisfaction, (the dad was up front about this). The price was right, so even if I would have rebarreled it, I wouldn't be in too deep. On examination, the first thing I changed was what Winchester called, ''bedding''' . It was at the recoil lug and had the rigidity of a pencil eraser. I dug that crap out and used Accura-glass in the lug recess, under the receiver and chamber area of the barrel. It wasn't as bad as your brother's gun, but unsatisfactory to me. I full length bedded it with Accura-glass and it did no better. 1.5-2'' 3 shot groups off the bench with handloads. Finally I put a slight pressure point under the barrel about 1.5'' from the tip of the stock and began getting good groups, some as small as .5'' for 3 shots, (the light barrel does tend to heat up quickly enlarging groups to 2+'' after 3). This was the most difficult rifle to get shooting I think I ever had dealt with. Funny thing is, I also had a 1980's push feed Featherweight in 7mm Mauser that shot good right out of the box, same outward stock design. I wonder if the owners of Remington model 7's and the old Ruger M-77 Mountain rifles have the same difficulties...
I have the same same rifle 1987 Era I shoot remington 165 corelokts factory ammo it really likes those I've tried federal and other brands I think it just doesn't like hotter rounds
I would suggest changing your powder to 4350 or 4831 in the IMR line or perhaps so Norma 204 or MRP. 4064 is a bit too fast for a 165/168 grain bullet.
I’d take it to a gunsmith. Remember that you can not reload your way out of a bad barrel. Maybe some crown issues or a whole list of other things to check. If the smith decides it the barrel I’d look for a match grade replacement. And a threaded muzzle for a brake would help with the bouncing around. Suppressor would be a wonderful addition if money is not a problem. A brake isn’t that expensive or hard to get if you can stand the noise. I think it’s a beautiful rifle and hope it is an easy fix. Good luck and happy hunting 👍
I agree on taking the rifle to a gunsmith. I bought a Model 70 Extreme Weather 308 brand new in the Fall of 2020. I had similar issues with grouping and trying different factory ammo and handloads. I assumed a bedding problem and eventually took it to a gunsmith. Before bedding it (Bell & Carlson stock with aluminum rail) he inspected the barrel with a light and camera. The barrel is defective from the factory. Bad bore job with lots of scarring on the rifling. I’m wondering if there was a bad batch of barrels put out around the same time. It seems likely..
Why do I have a suspicion that that rifle has not gone through a good barrel break-in routine. My recommendation is start there. Get the copper out of that barrel a few times. Winchester makes that rifle with a 22" barrel. That Federal ammo is tested with a 24" barrel so the velocity difference is somewhat expected. That rifle being so consistently inconsistent tells me it needs tuning on some level more than it needs finding the right load. Bedding, scope mounts, scope canted, excessive copper fowling. It's a beautiful rifle that comes with a bonus mystery to solve. I think that mystery needs to be solved before load development comes into play.
I agree. Any rifle shooting patterns like that (can’t call them “groups”) has a fundamental problem. A thorough cleaning followed by a bore scope would be my first step. Have to wonder if there is damage at the muzzle crown, really rough throat, or machining marks inside the barrel.
i had one in 280 bought around the year 2000. Kicked like a mule and baseball size groups at best. Such a shame as they are nice looking. Currently, im looking at another but do i take another chance?. Im not sure, I dont think in this day and age of cnc machining and computerization that i should have to spend another $500 to get it to shoot.
My Super grade maple 30-06 hates factory Federal, Remington and Winchester ammo. It likes Hornady Whitetail 180 and loves Hornady Precision Hunter. It also does well with Nosler BT 180, but not as good at the Precision Hunter.
If it were me…. I’d try 1) insure scope is solid. 2) torque scope mounts to spec. 3) torque action screws within torque range for you stock. In your case it appears to be wood. So less then 40 ft lbs. so try 35 (shoot measure accuracy) and then 40,,, Note be carful. To much torque can crack the wood…4) consider a synthetic aluminum bedded stock allowing greater torque …5) take it to a gun smith or call/return to manufacturer.
This is the second rifle I've seen from Winchester on CZcams that was what I would kindly call "out of spec" within the past month. Please, send this back to Winchester with the target. This is absolutely unacceptable. I wouldn't waste any more time or ammo on this gun.
I know this is an old video, but I have the exact rifle in .308, shoots better than yours but still picky. While inspecting it with a bore scope, I noticed the lands were crooked at the freebore. Called the “new” Winchester customer service and they were not much help, they said warranty was only 5 years and months of waiting if I sent it in to inspect it. Also I was told that the barrel threading on these new Winchesters is different than the past versions, so putting a new barrel is not as easy as I thought.
Beautiful rifle. Hopefully you find a load that it likes. Both of my Winchester model 70 extreme weather rifles shoot great but they are chambered in 264 Win Mag and 270 Winchester.
Morning man.
Featherweights can be a booger. I have had a few and altho ALL where made ta shoot. As advised ALL NEEDED BEDDING WORK!! When ya see consistent flyers, THINK BEDDING.
Terminal ascent bullets are the ultimate!
I truly don't think there's anything wrong with the rifle. It's a pure, classic-style hunting rifle, through and through. Not designed for benchrest shooting(doesn't have the materials and design for that). This is common with Featherweights(or just about any classic old school hunting rifle actually): first two shots almost touch, then after that the group goes down hill. That's purely the old fashioned pairing of an old school designed featherweight barrel that heats up super fast and a wood stock that begins expanding the moment you start shooting. (it's purely for hiking through the woods with, looking for that venison.) They weren't meant to take more than 1 or 2 shots with..... After that, you weren't suppose to still be sitting at a bench rest shooting, you were suppose to be gutting and dragging something heavy out of the woods. Cheers and best luck to you!
Thanks for commenting! Good news is... it likes at least one bullet
Iam so lucky i have rem from 1970 ,80 ,90 and 1 made 2018 the old rem shoot half inch groups at 100 yards about the same at 200. 06 is my babies. All 4 of them. Small town man god bless you all and this great land.
After seeing nothing but synthetic stocks on rifles lately, that wood is truly a refreshing change from the mundane. Wouldn't mind getting my hands on one chambered in .300 WinMag.
I own 3 of these rifles. 2 30-06 and 1 338 Mag. What I did was epoxy bed them. I would HIGHLY suggest that if it isn’t done. Marine Tex Grey. Many people on CZcams showing how it’s done. I’m sure you’re familiar with floating barrels etc. if it were me I would reinstall base, rings scope to be sure. Process of elimination.
Then bed the rifle. THEN work on loads. As you know there is so much involved. Seating depth was huge also. I know you’ve probably heard all this but this is what helped me
A few points, always load from the magazine as it is controlled round feeding and the extractor will break, eventually. When shooting a feather weight you need the sand bag under the fore end tip, whilst at the same time holding the forfend part of the stock with your left hand (assuming your right handed) as in an off hand style. this technique will give you better groups which the M70 is capable of. Try 53gn to 55gn of H4350 with a 150gn bullet. I have 5 feather weights, crash feed and crf and they can all shoot 1/2 inch groups.
ahhh. negative on the extractor breaking. old tang rugers were a push feed with a claw extractor, the claw on the rugers jumps the the case of the shell every time. my ruger is 43 years old, killed over 150 deer. the claw extractor is almost spring steel. shot thousands of rounds through the gun over the years. ive never owned a winchester, almost bought one yesterday. i'm not impressed with firing pin lock time...after watching a few videos on these winchesters i decided not to purchase it...
@kimstocks4485 your correct in regards to the Ruger's as they are a highbred on the Mauser design. FN 98 Mausers had a cut out in the action to allow the extractor to snap over the rim, if need be, but not recommended as a rule. The original Mausers broke extractors hence why it's not a good idea to push your luck. In regards to the Model 70 lock time, get a new spring from Wolf springs and replace it, which I have done on a few occasions. All working perfectly.
@@warpspeednow thx for the tip, so is it possible on these new winchesters to break the claw extractor if they have to jump the rim? having the most reliable fire arm possible is a must where i hunt...my old trusty m77 's plunger spring is getting a little weak and i can't find a replacement...
@kimstocks4485 It possible to break if you continually make the extractor jump the rim but not likely since most rounds, if not all, are fed from the magazine. On the rare occasions where a round is not fed from the magazine, it won't be a problem. I have had no problems at all with my model 70's and in my humble opinion they are a rugged and reliable rifle. I don't get too hung up on accuracy as the first shot is the most important.
I agree on holding the forend...saw another channel where there was a world of difference for the guy "riflechair" maybe.
Don't waste any more ammunition until a gunsmith have checked the gun
Bedding, torque screws
Sometimes the scope rings are not installed properly or they could be cheap scope rings that is causing micro-shifting of the scope after every shot. You don’t want them torqued down too tight or too loose. Use a laser boresight, confirm the zero with 1 round, then put the laser bore sight back in. Look and see if it has shifted. If it has, it is definitely not the rifle.
Look no further than that scope, man
Check the throat on that thing. I’ve had 3 winchesters recently (last 5 years) where lands start at different spots to the extent of a. 1/4” so hard to get accuracy when bullet isn’t hitting all lands square.
Having reloaded for 60+ years and being a collector of rifles I think you need to start with all the basics and keep track of each one. Tom over at Simple living has run into Winchester model 70 problems too and by doing basic elimination you will make it a lot better! I had a feather weight that I let my brother in law borrow and he got the stock very wet from coastal hunting and the outside of the stock looked fine but the barrel bedding was so bad I had to replace the stock to get it to shoot MOA. I first spent days at the range trying all the common problems.
My brother would have replaced the stock. I would have insisted. I have 4" & 35# on him.
Grew up shooting the 06, except in the Remington 700 hunting deer, alot of good memories!!
Love mine every time I go hunting with it. A great gun and caliber
Great review. Very thorough. Just an FYI but I recently got a Bergara Hunter in 06 and it too shot the most terrible groups of almost 3” at 100yds with the 175gr Terminal Ascent. Highly disappointing because the box is over $80 here in Canada with tax.
I was thinking of getting a Featherweight but they are behind in production and none in the gun stores in Western Canada anyway. But great review. 😊
This is what shies me away from the Win Featherweight. I was looking at a 270 but I kept hearing and seeing CZcams vids showing the accuracy was inconsistent. So I got a Tikka in 270 n 7 Rem. Both shoot factory ammo very accurately. 1” groups in 3 different factory ammo for 270 n so far 2 brands in the 7 Rem
I bought one of the very last featherweights they chambered in 280 Remington a few years ago. Best is that it was $889 from buds guns haha - PreCovid. Mine is definitely not that picky. It’s around MOA with everything, a little over and a little under sometimes. 140 grain Barnes handloads were best - maybe .06 MOA but Barnes factory shoots (2994 fps) about 1.25, not terrible. I’m in CA so how it shoots with copper is really all that matters. I have shot some lead and it shot Federal Blue Box amazingly well, sub MOA for sure. I unfortunately scratched the barrel hunting last year and ended up putting midnight blue cerakote on it. It still looks great.
Send it somewhere like Hill Country Rifles for accurizing. I feel a Winchester 70 is worth working with and spending money on. Most others I’d say dump it. But wood stocked guns with actions that smooth are starting to disappear and/or get very expensive. Now a lot of the guns shoot but look like cheap, synthetic crap to me. Browning X-bolts are my other favorite rifle - I’ve owned a bunch and they’ve all been extremely accurate, sturdy and reliable. I think Browning/Winchester/FN is the best gun company currently along with Weatherby and Tikka/Sako. But all of them are having to cut costs now…
Got my son a black shadow for his 12th birthday gift. After a few years of not being able to get it to group well and doing all sorts of things I discovered the chamber was reamed wrong at the factory. Winchester replaced it with the a top of the line stainless rifle after I gave them an earful and it is a tack driver. Measure your fired brass and make sure it’s to spec otherwise I’d start A check list scope, scope bases rings stock torque bedding etc etc
Just worked on a savage for my sons friends father. It had the wrong bases so scope was all out of line the scope turrets would turn when u put the caps on . Put a picrail and tps rings Burris scope and it’s well with in 2moa with cheap ammo
Actually the story about where the current Winchester model 70s are made is interesting. The barrel and reciever are made in FN's plant in Columbia South Carolina but final assembly is done in Portugal. Sources for info on this a segment on the model 70 from the NRA plus Winchester Customer service. I've seen photos on Gun broker with pictures of the side of the box which states Made in USA assembled in Portugal. Now if I was to own a model 70 mine would have to be either the Alaskan or Supergrade I like a standard contour barrel myself.
I have the exact same rifle. I would try a different scope of it. If that fails then I would either return it to Winchester or if not then I would fully bed and float it. Wishing you all the best because I know how frustrating this can be.
My learning curve has just begun. I bought a M70 carbine in ‘06 a month ago with junk glass. Threw it out and put a nice enough Nikon on top and haven’t gotten to the range yet. The featherweight would be the closest in weight to what I have so I’m paying attention. No longer reload so I’m praying that I find a factory load before the money runs low and I’m sleeping in a box. Worked loads for a past M70 in 270 and found that gun liked rounds that weren’t screaming hot. Tamed the loads down about a grain and a half from recommended and it did great. I’m looking forward to the process of finding out this carbine’s personality and dialing it in. Also praying that the recoil isn’t brutal. Thanks for the video, keep ‘em coming.
Good luck
I watched a video on that exact gun recently. A bore scope showed that the lands were not square which is a sign of sloppy craftsmanship. A bore scope is a good idea. He was having a lot of copper build up in a few rounds because of that. If it were mine I would send it in to browning or have a gunsmith (a good one) look at it. I rebarreled mine with a Douglas medium contour in 6.5 06 and it shoots 1/2” groups all day. Factory rifles have been declining in workmanship where it matters for years. Custom rifles are very expensive but deliver in performance usually. The only other thing you might try is free floating the barrel or bedding it. I’ve seen that work quite often if done properly. Something is shifting your point of impact and that is the likely culprit. Good luck.
I have a featherweight m70 from the 80s in 30-06 I've ran a lot of different types of ammo threw it but the 1 it absolutely loves is factory barnes 168 TTSX ammo it shoots sub MOA with it at 100 yards it is my go to hunting riffle. I can't say I have any experience with the newer model 70s but the pre64s and the ones from the 80s I've owned or shot have always been solid shooters once you find what they like
The action screw pressure can be critical on wood stocks. If pillars aren't installed, pressure will vary and groups will bounce around. To me it looks like the action is ok because it will put two close and throw the third. A stable foundation is key.
I had almost this exact same thing with a Remington 700. Plastic trigger guard had cracked. So action screws weren’t set. Would “throw” almost every other shot.
I’ve got a lot of experience with lightweight rifles, Model 70 Featherweight, Model 7 Remington, and Kimber Montana. You can shoot them like you do a bench rest beast; should be holding the forearm or down on the scope. First thing to check are the scope mounts, use a torque driver. Check the action screws, use a torque driver at the correct inch pounds. Then maybe switch scopes. And, then, if all else fails, have it pillar and glass bedded. If nothing helps, I’m sure somebody else will give it a good home.
I have a feather weight in 7mm wsm . Had to use small base dies to get it to group . Also controlling the recoil was a big thing on my gun for good groups . Try griping the forend or putting your hand on top of the scope.
I have an early 90’s M70-30-6 made in USA. I get great results with Win Fail safe 165 grain. Fortunately I stocked up on it b4 discontinued but always get #3 jump. I attribute it to thin barrel, and lightweight. But it’s great when you cover many mikes and hills in a day. Where I have hunted I don’t expect to ever get a 3rd shot.
My Springfield m 1903 surplus never jumps.
Well, I had the same sort of issue with a Feather Weight M-70 that I bought in 1981 in 7 x 57, I could not get it to shoot well. I really liked the rifle and I sent it out to a gunsmith, he did a bedding job on it and reworked the trigger a little and It shot very well after that, My load of choice 50 gr of IMR-4350 W-W case and a 140 gr Nosler Partition. I will be coin that having the gun rebeeded would cure the issues.
I have 2 pre-1964 model 70s. A 30-06 and .270. Both are tack drivers at 200 yards. I would check the forearm barrel fitment.
Had an early 243 Featherweight and it was super picky as well. Only thing that worked was Sierra 70 grain HPBT Matchking's. It went from 3 inch groups to .4's.
I have the sporter with the 24” and mine groups best with 150 gr pro hunter and 150 core-lokt in factory ammo. I’m working on some 180 AB loads for Elk
I own 2 of those rifles. 1 is from the 80s and the other is 2010. Both love 150 grain loads. Check your torque on your action screws. Also, If there is a screw in or just behind the magazine, loosen it to about thumbnail tight. One of my rifles gave me fits until I figured that out. Now it shoots .6-.8 with most factory 150s.
I've been reloading a 175 gr SMK for my Weatherby and 1903A3 Springfield. My powder charge sweet spot is around 49.5 to 50.0 gr of Accurate Arms 4064. Books list the velocity around 2700 to 2750 fps. Could be a very similar powder being used in the Terminal Ascent factory load.
RW, that's a beautiful rifle. It's a shame it doesn't shoot better. Sometimes we all get one that is just a project. I know that I've had a few that should be sent down the road. I just don't feel right sticking someone with a rifle that just won't shoot. I do have a 70 Super Grade that won't group. It's an early return to the claw extractor, Winchester/USRAC. But it has beautiful walnut and I'm hoping to get it right. Someday. Don't give up on that one yet.
A model 70 Winchester control round feed makes my knees week like a 6ft tall Los Vegas show girl.
My dad had a 30-06 from WWI era and he had all kinds of accuracy issues with various loadings. Finally he tried 220 grain round nose and they were sub MOA. It might be worth a try…
+
Only change one thing at a time. Check all fasteners first. Then rule out defective scope. Then consider micro-bedding receiver. Then take those 178 grainers and mic your freebore distance. Etc, etc
You can't blame the rifle. Factory rifle acceptable groups. Handloads don't help, especially if you really aren't loading to the potential of the loads and techniques. Bedding the actions, and having the right height cheek comb on the butt and good shooting technique too, trigger pull weight., anticipating the shot, squirming as the shot goes off, etc.... is essential.
I'm certainly not the best shooter... with that being said every single other rifle I own shoots much better.
Oh man I know the feeling! I spent a lot of money hunting for a decent hand load for my featherweight Savage 270 and nothing seemed to be satisfying. It seems obvious now that the pencil thin barrel was the issue. The very thing that made that rifle as light as it was. When I got my Shilen barrel that added about a pound to the rifle, It became my most accurate hunting rifle to date. It was a trade that I would make 100 times! It went from nothing shooting to. anything shooting. Almost anyways...
The barrel is so thin on the featherweight. Im shooting a 7mm rem mag and know that I can only group 2 rounds with it until the barrel completely cools. The 3rd is always 2 inched higher with mine, I guess its what you get when you buy a lightweight hunting rifle.
If everything is correct with the reloads...... It sounds like it may be a barrel issue. I believe there are a couple screws on the bottom of the action. Make sure they are tightened to spec or even play with them a little and see if that improves anything. And make sure the barrel is not touching the stock anywhere. Anyway, it sounds like the barrel or screws on the bottom of action. I'd try that and go from there.... if it doesn't work, send it back to them
Have one since the mid 80s. Took it to a gunsmith for a bent firing pin. The first words out of his mouth when he called me that first night after test firing was, "Can I interest you in a good recoil pad?"
Have a Remington trued action with a PacNor barrel in 30-06 and with respect to bullets, it liked the 168 TSX and TTSX best as well with H4350. I was able to get multiple loads for it but the Barnes was best.
My opinion, take that rifle to a good smith, pillar bed the stock, true the action, put a chrome moly replacement barrel on it from the maker of your choice, many have them in stock, get it blued to match the action, keep the old barrel, then start over. I think Douglas and Wilson barrels are least expensive and they will out shoot that factory barrel but if $ not an issue, get a stainless steel barrel from whomever you want. All of my Ruger and Remington blued actions have stainless steel bead blasted barrels. I think they look fine
Expectations these days for rifle accuracy is sky high. Growing up in the '60s and '70s a rifle that shot 1.5 to 2.0 inch groups was great.
Yes this is the truth. Old school featherweight barreled and wood rifles didn't shoot sub moa, you were lucky most times if you could get 2" out of them(you would have to spend 3 to 4 thousand dollars(which would be 6-7 thousand dollars or more adjusted for todays inflation) on a custom built target rig, in order to get sub moa. These types of rifles are designed for shot in the woods and then dragging something home....not bench resting for precision.
Ive got some data for BARNES TSX 180s with subpar groups. I cannot get any overlapping groups @100yds so i scrapped it but my relatives love and use the load i developed😁
If you love the Accubond so much you should develop them for your '06 and you wont have any what ifs when you line up your cross hairs on that Buck only confidence👍👍
FN/Browning bought Winchester in 2006 if I remember. They started making the model 70 shortly after and production was in the USA up until about 13 or 14. The receiver will say made in the USA if you have a USA made gun.
Your results mirror my results with a Winchester Model 70 Compact I bought a couple of years ago in 7mm-08. I tried several different factory loads of varying bullet weights, along with handloads using different components, and the rifle shot horribly. I also varied the bullet seating depths, to no avail. Sometimes it would put two rounds within 1/2" from each other, then it would throw the next shot 2-3" away (yes, I realize it has a thin-profile barrel). I tried different torque settings on the action screws, as well as putting a temporary pressure pad under the barrel (sometimes it works, in my experience), but that didn't help either. I finally placed the gun on consignment, but I did tell them of my troubles with the gun; whether they passed the information on to the buyer, I don't know, but I suspect not for the reason I will get to shortly. It's a pity the rifle performed so poorly because it was the prettiest long gun I've ever owned, or likely ever will own. It was replaced with a Weatherby Vanguard, also chambered in 7-08 and, though a bit picky on loads, it lives up to Weatherby's three-shot MOA guarantee.
Winchester, and the people who build their rifles, really need to get their act together. You guys (Winchester) can only coast on looks and past glory for so long. There is no excuse to put out inaccurate, inconsistent guns like this today, especially at the prices you are charging. I don't believe I will ever buy another Winchester product again.
Anyway, a couple of months after I sold the gun I saw it again on the used gun rack at Scheels. I knew it was the same rifle from the serial number. Apparently, I wasn't the only one to find it was a problem child.
Just as an aside, I own a Browning X-bolt Speed in .30-06 and it is a true MOA shooter, and I don't need to jump through hoops to get it to do so.
With the first two shots generally being super accurate(almost touching) it has to be due to the old fashioned pairing of a super thin, lightweight barrel, obviously to keep the weight down for carrying hunting, coupled with traditional wood for the stock. The fact that it happens after two shots seems to clearly show that it is the heat to the barrel and heat transfer to the wood and that seems to go in line with what old timers experienced for decades with traditionally made, wood-stocked, thin/featherweight type barrels. ie; it's a pure hunting rifle and not suited for precision benchrest target work. The way I see guns is the are very specific tools that have strength on one end and give up something on the other end of virtues. I own a Model 70 Supergrade and I never even bother bench resting it for supreme accuracy(I use a custom Howa for that with all the new material trimmings and attributes and cut 1/2 MOA holes at a benchrest with it). But for a cold, crisp, Fall TN morning, hiking up and through the deep wooded ridges, looking and listening for that wonderful 'snort'...there's just something special about feeling that checkered walnut in hand, paired with old fashioned blued steel and a Leupold optic on top, that can't be described...I think that's purely what they were invented for. Cheers and best luck to you.
That's my experience with my featherweight too. Just be satisfied with a tight 2 shot group and go hunting.
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is both lugs touching the action well. I loaded for a Sporterized Springfield for years and had good luck with IMR 4895. Match loads made in the 40s used this powder.
I have the same rifle in 308. I’d change the scope and make sure all screws are tight. Mine was pre Covid and accuracy was not great but it was consistently around 2 inches .However after around 100 rounds accuracy became much better usually sub MOA.
I have had really good luck with the 175 gr LRX in my 300 wsm. My Ruger M 77 likes the top of the powder charge.
I love Mine in 7X57, BUT I am having to do things like TORQUE Action screws and. adjust the factory 2-point bedding with a Dremel to make it shoot MOA. There is like a bedding shelf, out in front of the recoil lug, like a glob of ooze. I ground that down some so it is free floated ALL THE WAY TO THE LUG and would not alter POI due to heat at that area which may be chamber. Before it was 2 and 2.5, would group 2 and throw a flyer. Now it's more like 1.08, 1.03. So it's tightening up. Better with Norma Brass instead of PPU too. It is great as Minute of DEER at reasonable Max Point Blank ranges, not 1000 yard "sniper-wanna-be" ranges. 70 Featherweights are "particularly picky people" I will agree. I love the look and feel of the rifle and will always keep it even if it goes to "Minute of Rock Throwing. :)
That is a beautiful rifle. I don't think I'd be able to take it hunting. Luckily my beater .30-06 Savage 111 topped with a Vortex 3-9x Crossfire II shoots better than I can with any 180 grain bullet I've put in it so far. The synthetic stock can be flexed quite a bit if you try but it doesn't contact the barrel in any shooting position I use and is ugly enough that I had no qualms about doing a rattle can camo job on it. I feel no guilt laying this rifle on the moss when I stop for a coffee break in the woods.
I love my Model 70 feather weight in 243 Winchester, I don't load my own ammo and it's very picky about what factory loads it likes.
Are action screws tight? Is the barrel floated correctly?
Mine barrel was touching so i had a gunsmith sand it to floating again. Mine is a constant 1- 1.5 inch gun. 6.5 mememoor
Bed the action. Also are you adjusting bullet seating depth to get the bullet jump to the rifling that this gun might like the most? I have several newer MOD 70's and they all shoot great. My 30-06 MOD 70 Classic shot best with H4350 and Sierra 165&180 bullets, did best with near full loads. I have one 270 sporter that shot better after bedding the action. My model 70's in 243 and 270 all shoot well with Federal Fusion ammo. Good luck.
Watch some Simple Living with Tom Rivers videos. He is excellent at figuring accuracy problems out. He usually will run a bore scope down the barrel and sometimes that tells the story.
I'm a Winchester model 70 owner myself, All Weather SS, I got lucky it can shoot toe to toe with some factory rifles designed for competition. The Winchester model 70 either has match grade accuracy or they are picky as hell and are poor shooters. It's usually a barrel problem. Watch Tom River's channel. He does a good job of going through the rifle and diagnosing the problem. I think it's a crown or throat problem causing excessive copper fouling. I'd get it bedded properly. Take it to a gunsmith. I know another guy who had a similar issue. He had the gunsmith run a chamber reamer through the chamber and had said barrel re crowned. The issue is that they are using dull tooling from the factory. Of course, factories are trying to fill in back orders from the recent shortage. They are pumping rifles out as quickly as possible, sometimes using sub-par tooling due to supply chain issues. Also, fitting the rifle with a new barrel is an option. A Winchester model 70 with a Lija or Hart barrel would be the cats ass.
I have the same gun.Great looking gun I to had trouble finding a load that’s groups good. So far my best 165gr hornady interlock with 51.7 gr of varget.
Every model 70 I have had to test bullets and powder. Some took awhile a while but after finding the right combination, they all shoot 1/2 inch groups.
This gun is a lemon
I have the exactly same setup, but mine do pretty well with cheap ammo I bought in the Walmart. Ive tried federal 150gr power shock, and Winchester 168gr power point, they both shoot .60 moa which is better than my reload…. So I don’t know.😅
Two things to look at, one leading to the other. 1. Make sure the magazine box liner is not bound between the action and bottom metal. This is common. There needs to be 10-20 thou. clearance here. If it is tight, you are binding the action and killing accuracy. 2. IF the box was bound, once you file the box liner for clearance, the factory bedding will no longer be inlet deep enough. You will need to tear it out and re-bed the rifle. No, you should not have to do this to a new rifle, but it is what it is. Once you do these, I bet you will be very happy with the rifle's accuracy after.
The Win 70 is a true classic rifle and I really like them. I would start by doing a proper glass bedding to see how it would shoot. I have never seen any rifle shoot the Swift Scirocco bullet well.
I've tried the Swift bullets in a very accurate 30-06 and a accurate 300 Weatherby. Both guns hate the bullet
Featherweights have always been little picky but thats extreme! I would of sent it back to winchester have them look at it. A buddy of mine had a extreme weather that did the same in 25 06. He sent it back and had the issues resolved. It had to do with the chamber. His barrel was replaced
Very strange indeed, you seem to have the skills, I don't question that. The rifle is made by FN, assembled in Portugal and imported to the US through the Browning subsidiary, also owned by FN. They are famous for high quality components. Might I suggest investigating the optics platform, bases, and always check rings for alignment, lap if neccesary. Many new rings are not machined well, 2 piece bases add to alignment issues also. Also check the action screws. That rifle should do a Lot better than that. FN has great barrels.
The terminal accent are the best factory ammo made today. Love em
did they replace the vital-shok?
my 7mm rem mag loves the vital-shoks, but i believe they are now discontinued. i thought i heard somewhere, that this bullet replaced them.
@@zzz7zzz9 no they still make vshoks but there not that popular anymore. There is still a cpl runs a year w vshoks loaded in . The terminal accent are awesome though. I only hunt w those now. There slayers
I assume you've checked all the normal stuff; barrel actually free floated, action screws properly torqued, scope properly torqued, inspected the crown? Was there any barrel break in done?
I had one of these rifles, though it was much older... probably mid 80s..... same problems. Also, it kicked like a mule! So bad infact, that it broke a very very nice nikon scope. That is what ultimately lead to me deciding to sell it.... still regret that. That was the last gun i sold..... 19 yrs ago. I wont sell another. Once they are mine, they will be mine until my daughter inherits them.
Have you considered getting a gun smith to look it over? Something has to be off, that is horrible. I had a Weatherby vanguard in 308 that did not shoot any factory ammo worth a darn. I would get groups similar to what you have on that 30-06. Almost wondering if they royally screwed the machining on that barrel.
Condolences!
My 308 Win featherweight short action (bought 1984) likes Rem Green box 150 grain PSP very well, first two shots are within an inch but as the barrel heats up the rounds walk to the right. Some of your groups look like that is happening, two shots close and one to the right. You just have to do a two shot group. If you try to zero with three shots you will go nuts. The gun hunts great. It's not a good range gun due to barrel getting hot and of course the recoil.
I would check your action screws and barrel channel first. Then try another scope. Then try some standard cup and core bullets, if you cant get it to shoot 180 or 165 grain Hornady Interlocks, or Sierra Game Kings, you have a sick rifle. And as the other gentleman noted, feed it from the magazine. The extractor is beveled to snap over the cartridge in a pinch, but eventually it will break if that continues. I have two newer Model 70's, one from 2019 in .270, and the other from 2021 in .30-06. They are both accurate, the one in .30-06 is phenomenally accurate. I generally load it with 180 grain Hornady, Interlock, Spire point, flat base bullets. With Ramshot Hunter powder, Remington 9 1/2 Mag. Primers, i get sub one inch groups, and just a tick below 2,800 fps. Its my go to, and yes its old and boring, but it just flat works. Ive loaded that same 180 Hornady in various. 300 Magnum's for friends and family for 25 years, numerous deer 🦌 and elk taken, has worked splendidly.
My exact same experience. Max charge if Ramshot hunter under a 180 gr Sierra pro hunter with a winchester magnum primer. 2770 ft/sec and sub MOA from my featherweight and my extreme weather 30-06
Once you have a load with a good SD and ES, which you did, play with you seating depth. There will be a node close to and far from the lands.
I have three M70’s. All of them sub MOA rifles, but this one sucks lol. I’m not kidding about the seating. It can make a huge difference
Consider 2 shots from the terminal ascent almost touched. The flyer is due to something being very different between the shots. In my experience paper is cheap and ammo is expensive. I use Redfield Sight-in targets but only the centers. Line your crosshairs up on each of the heavy bars. Same amount of orange showing on all 4 crosshairs. That way you are pointing at the same place exactly. I had a model 70 featherweight chambered in .308 Winchester many years ago. Got rid of it when I observed my wife hunting with it and saw all the flashes of light coming from the shiny floor plate and barrel. It was very accurate with my handloads of blc2 and 165 Nosler Partitions. It took trimming all my cases to the same length for equal neck tension and finding the correct overall length. Invest in a case gauge. You can get a lot of very important information by dropping each resized and then loaded round into the case gauge. Currently have a Model 70 SSM chambered in 30-06. It loves Federal 165 gr Trophy Bonded ammunition. A close second is Federal Fusion 165 gr.
Thanks for the suggestion, and thanks for watching!
Have you checked the bedding? My Rem 700 BDL 22-250 had same problem with groups, free floated the barrel now it'll shoot .318 or better.
I get 1/2 minute groups at 100 yards with mine but it has a BOSS barrel tuner on it, unadjusted it shot 1 1/2 " groups at 100 yards
I got a newer model 70 in 300 win mag my rifle hated everything only shot 168 ttsx good so i rebarreld it with a custom hart barrel and trud action now shoots everything good
My model 70 in 30-06 is just as picky. Mine was made in the 70s so it is a very different gun then yours. I did notice an improvement in groups when holding on to the forend to keep it from jumping up. Maybe its just me but you could try a few different shooting techniques. Some guns like to be held tight and some don't.
Have you checked the scope mounts and scopes I would start there. Then I would go to a gunsmith that knows how to work on Mauser style actions. Have the barrel changed and and action blue printed. I had a model 70 in 375 H&H that had this problem as well. Sent it out got a Timney trigger, Schlien barrel, Pilar and glass bedded and blue printed. Now it is a sub Moa gun.
The new model 70s just always seem to lack the tack driving abilities I crave in a bolt gun. I bought my first weatherby vanguard few years ago. And that's all I'll buy now. There un matched for price vs features and all quality metals.
Remington arms did my 700 270 for free it touch 3 at a 100 yds. And my win feather light mod. 70 shot great out of the box, and got better when it is fowled 👍
Mine likes 180gr accubond and 180gr berger elite hunter. Both seated as long as the magazine allows. Max charge of RL22
I have a weatherby vanguard in 30/06 only shoots 190 grain interlock bullets to my liking
Relieve the barrel first. Then bed the action. If that doesn't work then go to full barrel bed. Light weights always group two, then toss for some reason. Sounds easy to fix.
I currently have 4 Model 70s of Portugal manufacture, 3 Super Grades and an Alaskan. Two in 308 and two in 3006. All theses rifles shoot at an inch or better if I do my part. I did have a Model 70 in 308 that I could not get to shoot that was made in the US shortly before manufacturing left the US. I had a gunsmith render an opinion and he thought the bore was slightly overbore, needless to say I no longer have the rifle. However,the other Model 70s will be with me until I die….
I would try and rebed that rifle before I got rid of it, unless it is still under warranty and then I would send it back to Winchester . The feather weight barrels are so light that they heat up very fast, I would only shoot two rounds at a time and let the barrel cool for 10 minutes……. Also, you might try FLAT BASED Bullets, they stabilize in a shorter distance, I now use mostly flat based bullets for that reason.
One last suggestion would be to put your left hand on the scope and hold the rifle as steady as possible when shooting for a group. I tried this at someone’s recommendation and my group sizes decreased……. There is lots of rifle jump before the bullet escapes the barrel, especially on light weights…..
I ENJOY YOU VIDEOS, Thank you…….
Older Winchester model 70 in 30-06. I have a load to try. I get sub MOA with this. 168 gr berger hunter classic, 45gr of IMR 3031, COAL 3.220
As others have stated, holding the the forend with your left hand may tighten up those groups a bit.
I have a 1990's genuine Winchester made in New Haven version of that rifle in .308. I bought it via a private sale, the owner's son had it and couldn't get it to shoot to his satisfaction, (the dad was up front about this). The price was right, so even if I would have rebarreled it, I wouldn't be in too deep. On examination, the first thing I changed was what Winchester called, ''bedding''' . It was at the recoil lug and had the rigidity of a pencil eraser. I dug that crap out and used Accura-glass in the lug recess, under the receiver and chamber area of the barrel. It wasn't as bad as your brother's gun, but unsatisfactory to me. I full length bedded it with Accura-glass and it did no better. 1.5-2'' 3 shot groups off the bench with handloads. Finally I put a slight pressure point under the barrel about 1.5'' from the tip of the stock and began getting good groups, some as small as .5'' for 3 shots, (the light barrel does tend to heat up quickly enlarging groups to 2+'' after 3). This was the most difficult rifle to get shooting I think I ever had dealt with. Funny thing is, I also had a 1980's push feed Featherweight in 7mm Mauser that shot good right out of the box, same outward stock design. I wonder if the owners of Remington model 7's and the old Ruger M-77 Mountain rifles have the same difficulties...
Thanks for sharing
I have the same same rifle 1987 Era I shoot remington 165 corelokts factory ammo it really likes those I've tried federal and other brands I think it just doesn't like hotter rounds
I’ve always wanted one in 264 win mag. Every single model out there is out of stock except 7.08 I’ll hit the lottery before I find one
7mm-08 is a great round. But 264 Win mag is a classic cartridge
I would suggest changing your powder to 4350 or 4831 in the IMR line or perhaps so Norma 204 or MRP. 4064 is a bit too fast for a 165/168 grain bullet.
Do you have a bore scope? I'd like to see what the barrel and throat looks like.
I’d take it to a gunsmith. Remember that you can not reload your way out of a bad barrel. Maybe some crown issues or a whole list of other things to check. If the smith decides it the barrel I’d look for a match grade replacement. And a threaded muzzle for a brake would help with the bouncing around. Suppressor would be a wonderful addition if money is not a problem. A brake isn’t that expensive or hard to get if you can stand the noise. I think it’s a beautiful rifle and hope it is an easy fix. Good luck and happy hunting 👍
There is absolutely no need to put a brake on a 3006. If you need a brake on an 06 then maybe take up figure skating, thatd be more your speed
@@whiteyfisk9769 That seems to be bouncing all over the table. A brake couldn’t hurt..... but figure skating might 👍😊
I agree on taking the rifle to a gunsmith.
I bought a Model 70 Extreme Weather 308 brand new in the Fall of 2020.
I had similar issues with grouping and trying different factory ammo and handloads. I assumed a bedding problem and eventually took it to a gunsmith.
Before bedding it (Bell & Carlson stock with aluminum rail) he inspected the barrel with a light and camera.
The barrel is defective from the factory. Bad bore job with lots of scarring on the rifling. I’m wondering if there was a bad batch of barrels put out around the same time. It seems likely..
Probably the same issue unfortunately
@@ReloadingWeatherby I also agree with don’t waste any more ammo..
Mine likes a few, including 175 grain terminal ascent.
Lucky
Why do I have a suspicion that that rifle has not gone through a good barrel break-in routine. My recommendation is start there. Get the copper out of that barrel a few times.
Winchester makes that rifle with a 22" barrel. That Federal ammo is tested with a 24" barrel so the velocity difference is somewhat expected.
That rifle being so consistently inconsistent tells me it needs tuning on some level more than it needs finding the right load. Bedding, scope mounts, scope canted, excessive copper fowling.
It's a beautiful rifle that comes with a bonus mystery to solve. I think that mystery needs to be solved before load development comes into play.
I agree. Any rifle shooting patterns like that (can’t call them “groups”) has a fundamental problem. A thorough cleaning followed by a bore scope would be my first step. Have to wonder if there is damage at the muzzle crown, really rough throat, or machining marks inside the barrel.
i had one in 280 bought around the year 2000. Kicked like a mule and baseball size groups at best. Such a shame as they are nice looking. Currently, im looking at another but do i take another chance?. Im not sure, I dont think in this day and age of cnc machining and computerization that i should have to spend another $500 to get it to shoot.
Make sure stock bolts are torqued, rings and bases, and if thats all good seat closer to lands, 30 to 50 thou jump
My Super grade maple 30-06 hates factory Federal, Remington and Winchester ammo. It likes Hornady Whitetail 180 and loves Hornady Precision Hunter. It also does well with Nosler BT 180, but not as good at the Precision Hunter.
Maybe I need to try Hornady ammo
If it were me…. I’d try 1) insure scope is solid. 2) torque scope mounts to spec. 3) torque action screws within torque range for you stock. In your case it appears to be wood. So less then 40 ft lbs. so try 35 (shoot measure accuracy) and then 40,,, Note be carful. To much torque can crack the wood…4) consider a synthetic aluminum bedded stock allowing greater torque …5) take it to a gun smith or call/return to manufacturer.
This is the second rifle I've seen from Winchester on CZcams that was what I would kindly call "out of spec" within the past month. Please, send this back to Winchester with the target. This is absolutely unacceptable. I wouldn't waste any more time or ammo on this gun.
With monolithic bullets go go down to around the 130 grain.
I know this is an old video, but I have the exact rifle in .308, shoots better than yours but still picky. While inspecting it with a bore scope, I noticed the lands were crooked at the freebore. Called the “new” Winchester customer service and they were not much help, they said warranty was only 5 years and months of waiting if I sent it in to inspect it. Also I was told that the barrel threading on these new Winchesters is different than the past versions, so putting a new barrel is not as easy as I thought.
Darn... I have found one other bullet it likes. But it's still a very picky rifle
I’ve never gotten a featherweight to shoot well unless I held the fore end of the stock.
Maybe I should try that
Beautiful rifle. Hopefully you find a load that it likes. Both of my Winchester model 70 extreme weather rifles shoot great but they are chambered in 264 Win Mag and 270 Winchester.
Good news is it likes 168 TTSX. Would be fun to see it shoot other ammo as well
@@ReloadingWeatherby Those featherweight rifles are really nice. And, you are correct, that action is so smooth.
Try the 180 grain round nose core lokts older guns seem to like those unless something is going on with the gun