The biggest problem facing the Batman Miniature Game
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- čas přidán 14. 12. 2023
- I've covered the Batman Miniature Game by Knight Models since basically day 1 of the channel and have been playing it for longer than that. I enjoy it and I wish it was more popular than it is and that its player base was larger. The game isn't without problems though and that's what I'd like to discuss in this video.
If you would like to learn more about the Batman Miniature Game then check out these sites:
knightmodels.com/
www.batman-miniaturegame.com/
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I think the 2 most frustrating parts of the experiment was the app just not existing for me and how deep the stat cards were buried on their site...
Very good video. Definitely sums up well the issues with the Batman game.
Might be a cliche to compare but look at Marvel Crisis Protocol. Their starter box comes with two crews (that can be mixed if you want), all the bits and bobs you need, along with scenery.
If I had to recommend a game to someone who isn't into miniature games in general, I'd have to go with MCP, cause everything is in a nice, pretty box. All erratas and manuals are on a nice, fairly easy to use website.
Which makes it easier for anyone interested to find what they need to know and get into the game.
Unlike KM, who seem to hide their documents in places no-one dares tread. Or like with their building instructions they advertise on the boxes but don't seem to exist at all.
I'm a recent addition to the BMG player family (since November/23) and this video smacks! Sadly, it seems to me the company is too small for such a big IP and it simply cannot provide what the players demand.
I wholeheartedly agree on the stat cards being done by the community instead of the company is bonkers crazy. However, I'm not mad at having to print the stat cards because they always become obsolete within time. However, they should release updated stat (and other types) packs - since not everyone wants (oir have easy access) to print them out. The app is also nice, although miles behind stuff like the Malifaux app. Likewise, a token pack is seriously needed when people don't want the models in the core boxes (like me).
The company seems to spread its focus on too many games for its size (BMG, Harry Potter and now ASOIAF...) and the marketing is quite weak. Haven't heard of this game before a friend of mine (who's also a FLGS owner) told me about it when his distributor was having a sale.
All things said, the game is very fun and it is worth a shot!
coming at this in June 2024 tempted to get into it currently knights models have discounted bundles with 350 rep crews, but that wasn’t even obvious at first
The bundles are good deals if you’re willing to do the extra work to get what you need to play the game and the potential headache of dealing with missing parts.
Top shelf man. I enjoy discussion videos like this. And while I personally don't have real interest in the Batman tabletop game I can agree that as a tabletop gamer with a slew of different games on my shelf, the list of needs to play the Batman game is insane. I would want to approach Knight Models and put your challenge to THEM if they would be willing to participate. If they did, it might provide them with the level of understanding to at least develop all the needed physical portions of their tabletop game in a proper starter box. Terrain and bobbles aside. If you can't play the game FROM the starter box, don't call it a starter box. Thanks for the video Flik :)
It's devestating how good this game is and how seemingly incompetantly it's being handled by Knights Model.
I know I'm late to the party here, but this was an absolutely fantastic video Flik. It's interesting to consider the parallels with other miniature games that have some of the same design choices (app-reliant), drawbacks (hard to find stock), or problems (unclear or expensive entry points), but it seems that the Batman Miniature Game combines all of the common problems into one big mess. Given the plethora of choice in the miniature gaming space these days, the kind of state that Knight Models have got the game into is such a killer; people have so many other options to switch over to, so they're not likely to stick around if there's no sign of the situation improving.
I enjoy watching the game on your channel, but I'd never start playing it for a) lack of time, b) lack of opponents, and c) lack of money. I already have enough miniature games that I know I can play more easily to fill the limited hobby time I have, so with the all the problems with the Batman game, why would I swap it in for one of those games? Knight Models don't exactly make a compelling case for me to do so.
Excellent video. Really learnt a lot from it. Would enjoy more of these type of videos too.
Great video.
I jumped in with 2nd edition... drifted away due to lack of players and then jumped back in with 3rd edition (Yellow Joker Funland boxset)
The biggest issue(s) i see is that there is not a player-base in my area and the other issue is the fact that you pointed out. With the recent changes to the rules and the need to constantly update cards.. it becomes problematic.
I have a large box filled with the cards , even going so far as to buy the custom cards for characters that were forgotten.... these are all becoming useless as the new updates are changing them.
I enjoy the game but must say that after Batman Who Grins came out, I got tired of being beaten up.
I agree that having a starter set that provides terrain is a big plus.
The 'living rules' system is good, but then relying on cards for objectives becomes problematic with the updates.
I've actually been looking into getting the game and making batreps for it, and I definitely noticed this issue you're bringing up. I don't really know how to begin, aside from just getting some models and the rulebook, but the directions for acquiring a collection and everything else related to setup are more than a bit vague. It makes me sad, since I adore the Batman universe and rogues gallery, so it'd be really fun to play as a crew of Batman villains and make content from it.
I think you hit a lot of great points, I’ve only been playing for the past 5 months and it’s definitely been a challenge getting into the game. I really enjoy playing it but it took finding the discord surfing Reddit and going to a tournament to ask questions and get clarification. My biggest complaint is the models, I love the sculpts I think they have great character and awesome designs but the quality control is abysmal, missing pieces, horrible flashing and mold lines, mold slip and bubbles and just poorly placed channels have really pushed me to not purchase other crews just to not deal with cleaning them. I do hope the game finds some more players I’d love to see a larger community and I really appreciate your videos it’s a great source for enjoying such a small game!
Hi I've just got the game in my local store. The fact that the minis are not easily available is a factor. Some of local distributors in Canada where reluctant to stock the game because the company is known for not being consistent with restocking. As some pointed out the accessibility and marketing is not equal to mcp or shatter point. The app is great but the fact that character card are made by fans are a downside. I had to modify them to fit
I'm slightly biased but this was a good video and I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said.
I'm glad that you showed this. I'm considering getting in to it, and I have to admit I have no idea what I need to play, or how I would design a team for what I would need.
Game died post V2 as there was a huge fracturing of the supporter base across the UK, USA and Aus. Then it moved onto discord and that killed off its visibility on the biggest social media platform FB. Knight models hasn’t helped themselves along the way with staff playing favourites amongst “top fans” etc giving them exclusive products or insights and then creating this toxic king fan dichotomy and it really killed off the meta scene when players had insider knowledge on upcoming traits, releases and models etc. glad I got out when I did because holy shit there’s so much dysfunctional. I was in since early 1st edition and I have seen how far knight models has come in terms of everything. They still have a long way way to go but honestly the fractured and toxic supporter base is something to behold
Well said.
Thanks for this! I was considering getting into it, but now I'm reconsidering... I may still collect the miniatures though.
Great video, well thought out and reasoned. I get a lot of enjoyment from your battle reports, BMG included, but have not wanted to buy into the game myself for all the reasons your experiment identified. Not being able to play out of the box with a "Starter Set" is just the tip of the iceberg of problems with this game, but it's a massive initial barrier that defies reasonable explanation.
As a fellow Australian, The Combat Company seems to be the only reliable stockist in this country for this dead game. Cool models at least.
A very well thought out critique. My issue now is just finding others to play with. I don't know where or how to find them. But yes, the company has not managed its launch of the app, moving away from cards, etc... with any success. If you want to get rid of paper, then your app has to be top notch and do everything you need it to do. I understand not wanting to be beholden to cards as it allows them to tweak and update the game, which is important for the style of play that it has.
And that is where I want to give this game huge kudos. It's asymmetric playstyle with objective decks that are meaningful, allows for those who want to play to grind their opponent into the dust are (depending) as viable as those who want to do hijinks with their groups. Sure, some gangs are not as viable as others, but I love the ability to play in a way that makes sense for the gangs, not just a constant slaughterfest.
Great video. I also play about 25-30 miniature game systems, and while BMG is in my top 5, it's still far and away the worst game when it comes to accessibility.
It is a tremendously fun game, but it has so many flaws that I would not recommend a stranger attempt to play unless they know an experienced player and are willing to work harder getting what they need to play.
@theebonstar now I'm curious what you like about this game so much.
Excellent video. I’ve collected the game since 1st edition, never really got to play. I thought 3rd edition was a wonderful upgrade. But like you it now seems squandered because it is so hard to get everything you need to play. I absolutely HATE not having star cards. I know that may be old school, but I don’t like apps even ones that actually work. I had a similar complaint with Infinity. I used to frequent the Discord but stopped, do I don’t even know what’s going on with the game. I shouldn’t have to follow a Discord to learn how to play the game. I’m also unclear on why a 30 card deck was needed.
Allegedly playtesters say on Discord that tournament players were cycling and scoring way too fast on 20 card decks which is why they went to 30.
When I was looking at skirmish games, the Batman Miniatures Game came up and the models looked nice until I watched unboxings. Then for similar issues listed here by your three friends, I just couldn't be bothered to go any further. I picked up Marvel Crisis Protocol and haven't looked back.
I got friends trying to get me into this game and my first reaction was to look for the previous starter box that looked so much better and had terrain. And since I knew all cards would be outdated anyway I don't care about the rest of the content.
Thanks for the video. This sums up pretty much my experience with the game.
I am curious if the issues are due to regional/cultural elements of the company itself, though I thought Corvus Belle was a Spain based company and have not had as many WTF moments.
But you mentioned BattleTech and since Catalyst Game Labs has taken the reigns, absolute facepalm on their end and they are a U.S. based company.
US player here. Funny enough a friend who was very familiar with minis, a friend that was into minis at a intermediate level (me), and a friend who has never been into minis looked into playing this game all together and very excited to play it, but it was a game that many stores didn't stock and we ended up playing MCP. We were all disappointed to miss out on this one. But unfortunately the game isn't available everywhere.
All I can state is scream:"Shreek!" as long as you can hold your breathing in that screaming beheaded skull psykoisks style.
I would like to get in too but the starter box is a real turn-off for me. I have no interest in the film style characters and you can't find any of the other starter boxes here in the United States. I'm waiting for the next starter box (and maybe the next edition) and hoping it's not tied to a movie cast.
I love this game and bought into lots of factions, but playing this game is nearly impossible atm. All the new objective cards needed to play the game can only be downloaded from the website, there is no way to buy them in physical form or to use card decks from the app. The app also causes lots of problems. All the crew lists I created in the app suddenly disappeard without a warning a few days ago. This is so frustrating.
This was a great video. You can tell Flik loves the game and wants it to do well. Most of what he says is what has kept me from trying to get a group together for the game. Really enjoyed this style of video.
As someone who has just very recently gotten into this specific game, (and lives down under) the lack of community combined with the complete lack of support for purchasing these models by KM, it's really hard to justify the amount of money I have spent on this game (outside of just painting nice models).
KM has a complete lack of interest in getting the game out there and selling it to people. Practically forcing the dying community it has to support it, while they sit back, make a model evey couple of months and rake in the cash from it. Not to mention the numerous times the models themselves are flawed.
I've seen and experienced many cases of the resin they use clumping, making tumor like lumps on models. E.g. Mr Freeze Crew polar bears, their feet are notorious for this, or 90% of the regular characters arm/shoulder sockets completely filling in when they need to be hollow for the arms to slot in. Other examples being completely ludicrous resin gates, some of which are on faces forcing you to mutilate the model. Or awful mould lines and slips which are impossible to clean neatly. On top of that the numerous times models would come already broken and had to be fixed on top of built. I bought a Killer Moth model about 2 months ago, which was missing 70% of its pieces, forcing me to contact customer support, which was compliant and really helpful. Sending me a replacement.
However, this of course did not come without drawbacks. The only way you can do this is by contacting one person via the customer service email. When this company has so many issues, they really should hire more people to help the customers rectify their mistakes. The replacement was sent at some point without a notification or email, I only found out because I emailed and asked. The package was not tracked, so I would not know when it arrived. And when it did, it was in a brown paper sleeve, which had been crumpled into oblivion.
The box itself was also crushed flat, thankfully not too much of Killer Moth was broken, only one of his antennae was half missing, and his hand snapped off. But of course, if you've built the model, you'd know that he is a case of having the resin gate attatched to his face, ruining it.
This is all on top of, in my country, how it is nearly impossible to buy into it because it is not stocked anywhere. Only 2 companies I know of have stock that actually gets replenished. Everywhere else is a single purchase, as they dont restock. And when you do manage to find stock, it is comparable to and worse than Games Workshop prices in terms of models. This is on top of how KM refuses to sell straight from their webstore to Australian customers as "shipping is too expensive". Additionally, not including the absolute ridiculous price to acquire proper scenery for this game. I managed to get probably the last box of the gotham cardboard terrain in the country, as I have not seen any available since. And buying any sort of MDF terrain that fits the aesthetic is expensive beyond reason.
Forgive my ramblings, but after reading you might understand my frustration with this company and game after being completely roped into it by how much I liked the concept and the gameplay.
Thats an interesting take. I fully agree, the game is really hard to get into - i love that game and played it a lot (and still do but there are always other systems so thats nit bmgs fault). The Thing that i cant really back up are the complaints about the starterset. A lot of games i play rely on an app so i guess im a little desensitized in that regard, same goes for stat cards and objectives (that being said - the objective cards NEED to be up to date or not in there at all). As for lack of scenery - i was very happy the ditched the terrain. Cardboard terrain from previous starters was nice, no doubt about it… but in my opinion it just inflates the price. If you like the game you most likely go out and buy some mdf terrain for a really nice table - at least thats the way in my gaming group…
That being said, knight models is a really sad case. I love their minis, i love their gameplay, and i‘d be fine with an companion app… if it worked properly. I‘d buy most of the models… if it weren‘t such a risk of getting a model without faults, or missing parts. I‘d write it on wishlists if i didn‘t know that estimated deliverytime could be well over two month after the promised shipping date.
I kinda coped with that because i played that game for a long time, i still love to play BMG… but man, getting into the game now… it sound terrible to be honest.
Sad…
in Australia and can relate the app is non exsistant
I used to play Batman Miniatures Game. But i enjoyed the DCU game. Its hard to keep up when you have no idea what cards are the right addition. Where do i find updated cards for BMG and DCU.
I actually wanted to get into BMG last year with a friend and we did play on tts due to the limitations that were above until we kind found our way into having everything in person. I primarily found an issue with how combat works in the game and the complexity it seemed to have. We read the rule book at the time up and down and it seemed like combat was in 3 different locations and without an index that kind of put a sour taste in my mouth about the game and shorty stopped after the same attempt game. I did get into malifaux recently and while playing it I am slowly wising that BMG was like it. I would try BMG again if they came out with a 4e but I don't know if I could play it now unless they updated the rule book to be more comprehensible.
great game journalism Flik. I hope to see your take on some other game too.
also wow that box with the carnival terrain and the amazing models? WoW! that was so much more candy to draw people in than the new one based on a dull movie asthetic rather than a comic one!
As a person who owns over 40 game systems... TBMG is a game I have flirted with but never jumped into. The minis look great and hobby difficulty doesn't factor for me.
I don't like the factions in the box. So I looked at getting a Scarecrow crew and it was just a nightmare.
I game every week with friends and at club. 2nd ed was played but I have never seen it again.
I'd like to say, an app is not an inherent issue. It's free, up to date rules. Knight just fumble everything about the game. A shoddy app, a lackluster starter set, models that while looks great are not assembly friendly. They top it off with horrendous customer service
Ha thats why i felt the shop was of and i couldn't understand what's going on
Do you mind sharing where your friend in Australia found the starter box? I can't find it anywhere here in Canada and I'm visiting Australia this year so might be able to pick it up
I'm not sure where he was specifically based and it's a big place so I wouldn't count on finding them. I'm not mentioning it just because they are my channel sponsor but because they are closer to Canada than Australia is, but Noble Knight Games has at least one copy of The Batman starter for sale for $130.
@FliksTabletopGaming i don't think they have the yellow starter box with Jim and Joker, and with the terrain. Trust me, I looked everywhere in NA. That is why i was considering looking for it in Australia since I am going there anyway
@@rhaeggosplayground2077 Ah right yeah that one is the oldest starter set for third edition and isn't produced anymore so rare old stock is the only option.
@@FliksTabletopGaming yes, that is why I was surprised your Australian friend in the video found one.
It's almost impossible being a fan of the game in Australia. Expensive stock, constantly missing out on sales direct from KM because they don't post to Australia and no one to play with. Imagine the pain also being a fan of the DC Universe game by the same company, a game even deader than BMG which at least has a resemblance of a pulse.
Bizarrely, I bought an old supergirl and guy gardner box from a store in Australia and supergirl was missing her arms. I reached out to KM and they to their credit they posted me a replacement model...go figure they actually can post down under.
im lucky the app works but i cant for the life of me find where it explains what all the markers for factions do. like i ma really trying to find the rules for jokers teeth markers and such
Those are used for certain objective cards of his.
The path to getting a game of Batman going is a struggle, but do you know anything about the DC Miniatures game? It’s so bizarre to see a company that has such a lucrative license just leave their games to rot on the vine.
Their DC Universe game is relatively easy to get into. I’ve played it a few times on the channel! I don’t do it often because it doesn’t really have a player or fan base sadly.
All you need is 4-6 minis and the pdf of their stat cards and hardback rulebook that they sell. Much simpler than Batman.
Is there any word on a new starter release to allow easy affordable entry?
Nope there hasn’t been any Batman news for a bit. They’ve been focusing on a Game of Thrones miniature game that uses a cut and paste version of this game’s rules.
Was going to get into it but thanks for the reality check. Bring on a fourth edition with everything in the box, rules, tokens, cards, scenery basics….
woah i been out of the game since just before the covid crisis. I have the 2 card decks and they are already out of date?
They are, yes.
@@FliksTabletopGaming ah joys
this video has been amazingly enlightening and its also amazing to see how close the issues are to the fallout wasteland warfare game
Yeah I’m not really happy with the armour shake up in Wasteland Warfare either sadly.
Wow what a lazy company lol the community made the stat cards.. I have a few models but I only got them for Painting. I’ll mainly stay with GW, MCP or ASOFAI by CMON.
So what I’m hearing is we should expect you to pick up Fallout Wasteland Warfare again
Biggest problem. Stock. Well for me anyways.
: L D
The third edition killed the game. It was a complete disaster on just about every level, from accessibility to presentation to player investment. Knight got greedy and thought that they could get away with selling everyone everything all over again. Even Game$ Work$hop doesn't do that, they incrementally update lines so that players can buy the new stuff in waves. This game had an active, niche community through the second edition, and was readily available in larger shops as well as online. Now? No one wants to stock this stuff.
Still an amazing game,all games have issues
I prefer DC Universe.
I would say that worst problem first and foremost is you can’t buy these things anywhere in America