Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast 116: Are Stripes BullSh*t?!
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- čas přidán 20. 12. 2022
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How many stripes do you have? Does it even matter? Getting acknowledged for the time and effort you put in feels good but what does it really mean. Focusing on the reward can often distract you from what it takes to improve, consistent effort.
JT & Joey discuss the pros and cons of this staple of the Jiu-Jitsu grading system and if it actually helps your game.
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As a wrestler, there are a lot of traditions from the martial arts side of BJJ that still throw me off. (Bowing to pictures!). The belt system is actually kinda helpful though. They give you a sense of people’s expertise and devotion to the art, which can be helpful in a few ways:
1) Who can I trust for technical advice?
2) who should I be “pulling my punches” against during live rolls?
3) who should I be throwing my best game at during live rolls?
4) who should I be trying to help during class?
All of this actually helps create an environment more focused on training and development. This is an element that can sometimes be hard to create in a wrestling room where athletes are often tempted to just try and win all the time.
The stripes and belts never motivated me, but I have come to appreciate what they offer.
Well…. I’m proud of those 3 little pieces of tape on my blue belt. Lol
i'd be l'ying if i said i didn't feel the same about every stripe i got.
Happy and proud of me 4 stripes on me white belt! 😅
The first gym I trained at gave stripes to white belts only. I kinda liked that. The gym I've been at since gives no stripes at all. I was a white belt with 3 stripes from my previous school and ended up taking them off after I realized no one else had stripes. I think if the gym is really big with hundreds of students, then it makes sense to give stripes and could even be necessary to help the instructor keep track of progress of all the students. If a student has 4 stripes the instructor can look at them more closely to gauge when they're ready for the next belt. If the school is small, there is no reason for it. in my opinion.
Been 20 years in grappling, and even though the bulk of my years has been spent in nogi, you'd be surprised of how needy most bjjers are in dying need of feedback. I do, from time to time, give constructive feedback.
I give feedback to lower to high-level grapplers. Reading between the lines, most bjjers don't get input and troubleshoot with feedback, it's awful. This reflects one of our social collective issues: people don't encourage others.
Worst, I live in a heavily rural area where bjj black belts barely show up. For years I hunger and thirst to have a black belt teaching us. Hopeless. The last one came in 2019 (God blesses his soul). So I stopped looking for them, and will become that black belt people long for over here.
Maybe that will help lot of jiujiteiros address their belt and technical issues. So as you see, not calling stripes BS, but our issue goes beyond receiving stripes.
great viewpoint you share there. I agree that it's rare to see an open culture when it comes to honest feedback. I would also say that it's more common now than ever, since the art of coaching BJJ is having more light shone on it.
just found this pod. really enjoying the topics i've heard so far!
Exact same as me! Had to sub
This was a great episode. You two are awesome.
I like the belt system, being recognized for progress is great, stripes too. However if there was no belt system I’d still train, I trained for over a year at a no gi gym with no belt system.
I do think perhaps at some point there needs to be 2 separate systems, maybe even 3, 1 for hobbyist, one for competitors, and one for people who want to be instructors. Maybe? Lol
I like stripes for white belts. Makes it easy to find if someone is brand new or has thier sea legs underthem when i go to ppen matts.
Exactly
Great episode guys 👌🏻
thank you!
My school has a system where we have a specific curriculum for each stripe, and testing is one day every six months. At white belt you can test for up to two stripes at a time, then one. This means if you are a two stripe blue belt, you for sure know specific techniques as a minimum. If I see a white belt with two stripes I know for sure they should know a specific group if about 50 techniques, and are likely working on a specific set of about 20-25 more. I personally love this as I know when I am working with someone who out-ranks me, they can for sure help me learn and grow with at least the curriculum I am working on because they have been tested on it multiple times. It seems to have fostered an environment where everyone seems genuinely interested in helping people behind them grow and develop while respecting the knowledge and skill set of those who out rank them.
I just don't understand why any of the progress markers are up for debate. Belts, stripes, if it is a helpful way for you to track your own progress then who cares what anyone else thinks, if not, who cares also.
Well I just started bjj 4 months ago. My instructor gave me my first stripe a couple of weeks ago. I didn't think I deserved it, wasn't expecting it. But it made me happy and proud of myself (unexpectedly). And in truth there is a difference with the new no stripe white belts, not a lot, but sometimes it shows. I think stripes are a good thing, as long as you don't obsess about it....and also helps you stay humble when you get submitted by a lower belt/stripe. I think it's a measure of your progress in your bjj journey, not necessarily a measure of how badass you are.
Nice where this lead! comparing martial arts with sports. How we seperate them but at the same time can find connections to another.
Getting the best out of each and developing myself with it to be a better human, physically and mentally 🙏
That is why I fell into JiuJitsu❤️ in the first place!
What keeps me motivated is actually the connection with the person in front of me. You get to know somebodys real mentality the time you roll with them. On the mat ends every bullshitting
Like the old martial artistists always said:
Let me get to know you, let's fight 😅
Well said!
I just received my second stripe as a white belt.
As a white belt I understand stripes dont really mean much for the belt rank (at least as a white belt), but on a personal level it does add some accomplishment.
How long have you been training Philip?
I got excited and proud about my brown belt stripes! You should be proud of them.
Enjoy the stripes bro. Whatever you do. When you get your blue belt. Just keep going.
@@yourenotwrong3511 At that time it was about 8 months I believe. I am a blue belt now and I was pretty proud of those 4 stripes while I held them.
So, the coloured belt system was first really implemented in Europe. Kanō Jigorō gave out the first ever black belts in 1886, though these were traditional style Japanese obi - the modern belts were implemented with the modern gi in 1907. Black belts at this point were seen as the first step and many East Asian martial arts have a system of only white and black because everything before black is like going to uni to learn medicine and black is like going to a hospital to be a doctor. At white you're just learning a curriculum which is how many traditional styles see black belt which is also why they give out black belts to quickly in Korea and Japan.
Kanō originally only had white belts for mudansha (those without rank) but implemented a brown belt 1913 for the last 3 kyu (of 6) and then later even a light blue belt for 6th kyu (i.e. fresh in the door). The panoply of coloured belts we know today started in 1926 in London under Gunji Koizumi and was then taken to Paris by 1935 under Mikinosuke Kawaishi as a way to keep the drip feed of rewards going for Westerners who weren't accustomed to spending so many years training without external indicators of achievement.
Although BJJ as most of us know went a different route, because the Gracies opened their first school before these belt systems were implemented in Europe and originally used white, light blue, and dark blue (for student, advanced student, and instructor) before adopting a more standard belt system in 1967, but in many ways purple for us symbolises what black means in most martial arts which is that you're learned the "curriculum". You know and can execute the positions, transitions, submissions, and essential techniques. You know all the terms and phrases and know how to compete.
After like 1.5 years i got my 3rd whitebelt stripe and it felt great.
Life is hard. Joints hurt, it's nice to get a kudos every now and again
Took me a year to get that 3rd stripe. But id rather stay pure white forever than pay for the stripes.
I got my first stripe on my white belt yesterday. I'm not going to lie, I really enjoyed getting a stripe. It felt good to have a measured mark on my journey so far in BJJ. At my gym, stripes for white belt are time based (20 classes) and stripes for upper belts are technical based. No one pays fees for stripes or belts. I find the stripes most helpful though when I'm looking around my class to know who is brand new and who is someone who has got some experience. I tend to ask questions and look for feedback from those who have more stripes. Of course I go to higher belts but if I'm on the mat and I have a quick question and see a 4 stripe white belt next to me. I'll ask him. I've read the comments and I wouldn't mind the approach of only white belts having stripes. I think that the first year of BJJ has so many evolutions of a practitioner it makes sense to break it up into sub sections (stripes). After white belt though, gains in skill and knowledge are longer frames of time so stripes don't make too much sense.
If stripes are based on some kind of objective progress, that's cool. I have stripes, I know they're for my personal growth, I never think I'm above someone with no stripes or less stripes, they could still beat me on the mats and that's totally fine. They really are just progress markers to help keep focus, and if you have a cool gym, you'll know what you should work on to get to that next colored belt.
My first dojo was very traditional, bowed to all above you as a sign of respect, didn't fix your gi facing them, and so on. There was stripes, for white and yellow, but not green, brown and black (judo). I liked the system we had only because it helped me to know the steps to the next level. By the time I made green (kinda in between BJJ blue and purple in my opinion) I KNEW what was required for me to take the next step to brown -a lot of hard work and experience. I could go through the routines of how to do the next belt rank requirements, but didn't have the experience maturity that time brings. The "4 year to black" road seems lacking in experience to me, but the 15 year to black in BJJ seems a little excessive ( again, ONLY my opinion). Being a white belt in BJJ, i have a ton of experience from my prior art (sport?), but there are HUGE differences I need to learn. DO I surprise a lot of people in our rolls, especially with stand up throws? Yes (and its honestly a little satisfying), but I am a learner, so I don't mind the starting over as a newb. In short, I could care less if I am given stripes, its all about the learning for me. Great podcast, thanks!
I'm proud of my Lil 3 stripes on my wht belt.
You should be brother. All hard work needs acknowledgement.
Does anyone know the John danaher lore that they referenced regarding him not being a good person
We stripe wherever I’ve trained and I didn’t put much weight into it
Having a tangible tracker of progress is rational to me.
BJJ progress is hard to quantify but belt stripes help. It’s like lifting a heavier PB
Agreed!
Blue belt has such a huge difference(skill) so the stripes help even though rolling will soon give you an idea
I enojoy stripes. I stive on hitting milestones, benchmarks, progress indicators, etc... it keeps me focused and engaged.
My gym doesn’t do stripes and I kinda like it that way. For myself I think I would focus too much on getting a stripe rather than just trying to improve my skills. Also I feel like getting the new belt is even more special that way
The gym I am at do tests for each stripe and each belt.
Throw a couple stripes on your belt and see what happens. Maybe tell someone you found a coach to test you for 19.99 per stripe
for sure, it can work both ways.
Tbh I think the stripes are actually a good thing. At the very least, it's a great way to signify where you are at in your progression of your current belt. Coaches are often coaching 10s of students, and they can't remember all of their progress and where they're at. I think the scaling system of belts and stripes is super helpful, and I actually wish BJJ had a more structured approach to grading. Some gyms do, and I think they're a really good system.
I think BJJ actually does need an official grading system.
Stripes are a communication method for sure.
Been training at one club (or dojo or gym whatever you call it) for a year and a half, loved it when it was promotion day i got sick and couldn't attend. Time passed coach didn't mention it, i just moved on and trained. Life made it so that stuff shifted and i couldn't attend the class because of the time it was held, so i told that to my coach (he was ok with it) and head out to another BJJ club where i could attend.
After 9 months there was a promotion and the coach said everyone that trained 6 months gets a stripe and who trained 24 gets a belt. So since i've switched clubs i ask him about that (and told him how long i was training), and he says that i'd get stripes, i was ok with it. At promotion day i get 2 stripes and to be honest i was expecting 3 or 4, felt more like a demotion than a promotion. Why, well because i never got any feedback in regards of my "journey", i have no idea if what i'm doing is good or bad. Number of taps i get is not something i consider as a reference point. I really feel that "just keep coming to class" is not good advice which i can use. I need something concrete like "your transition needs work" or "you are too passive" or what ever, something i can build upon. And now after two years i get two stripes with no context. I don't wanna sound pretentious but that doesn't seem like a good way to give constructive feedback.
I'm thinking i should ask for context (ask for a private lesson with the coach), for some direction since i was assessed now (for promotion day)...but i don't want to seem like a butt hurt petulant child that is chasing more stripes.
Should i ask for context or am i out of line ? Is it normal to not give any feedback and just to give a stripe/belt to your student ?
Ask your more experienced sparring partners for feedback
Update: So i asked for a private lesson and there i asked about where i should improve, coach reflected back at me and asked me what i wanted to improve...the whole hour we did stuff i knew i wanted to improve but didn't get a single bit of info about my jiu-jitsu.
At the end he said that the next time we should work to improve my standup, and i told him that i know that needs to be improved because we don't practice it, because there is no room and the dojo is crowded, that i can't remember when was the last time i started a sparing from standup (coz of the crowdedness we always start from sitting and even than he tells us to limit 5 pairs per round (rest wait for their turn)). His reply acknowledged the situation and the crowdedness and understands that we all lack at standup. So...he gave me a non-advice.
All in all i've realized that he has no idea about how jiu-jitsu is coz he can't (as i've suspected). He always rolls with students and never watches how his students roll, add to that the info that there are ~34 studends in each class...now way he can assess someone from a once in a two-three weak 3-5min roll. That also explains why he couldn't give me any feedback.
In conclusion i think he gave me stripes because i wasn't his student, coz he saw me like a newcomer with some foreknowledge and treated me as such. In my past dojo everyone got promoted, everyone...so in that regard i'm falling behind...but i accepted this, i have knowledge from both schools/instructors and that has more value than being tied to one dojo, one way of training, one instructor. It would be nice to get a belt promotion, but i think i'll move towns soon and that promotion will be delayed yet again...that is just the way of things in the BJJ world (i've read that people who travel and changed dojos, but keep learning and training are penalized for their life style).
@@Omidion dont worry about promotions, in the long run it means nothing. Think about what you want to get out of the sport. Is it fitness, is it self defence or is it competition. In either of those, not having a higher rank means nothing and if anything it will serve you better.
@Shak Thanks, i will try to focus on getting out of if what i need. The need for a promotion, some recognition...is probably coming from my inner need to be recognized about something in my life, to get a "good job" , "pat on the back", but getting that from a stranger seems odd when i look at it. Think i want some laurels to show off to other strangers...ahhh insecurities, how they surface, well better to see and know than to ignore them. Thanks for helping me think about it all.
@@Omidion no problem man, at least you know yourself what the issue is. As long as you're better than you were and you're able to look at yourself and say you're improving thats all that matters in the end. Believe me, no one cares about your progress as much as you will, so having a stripe or belt to signify that really doesn't mean as much as people think. Like in this brilliant podcast, traditional jiu jitsu practitioners only had white and black belts supposedly and that need for promotions and gratification came from our society. We need to have that mentality like those old practitioners had a little. Its great to be recognised, but its even better to know you are improving.
I should be at least a single stripe on my white belt at this point. But I only do no gi. It would be great to know or have some direct feedback.
Guess yu gotta put on that Gi brother...
Belts are for keeping a Gi closed. You don't get stripes on a non existent belt. Lol. Although I do think some sort of method similar to the belt should be brought to the no gi only guys. I understand the other side of the coin.
Rack off with the "no goals." 😂 "If you don't know where you're going, you'll never get there."
I'm struggling with this at the moment. My mind set is clearly lacking. My skills are what they are and a belt is just a cloth you tie around you gi. Every gym has ahierarchy/ pecking order , and everyone knows where everyone falls regardless of tape on a belt or the color. Whatever color of belt or number of pieces of tape, wear the shit with pride and know everything is exactly how it should be.
I'm sure they can be a good sense of progression and quick assessment of another grapplers rough skill level. But I got to say that it's quite freeing to train only nogi in a gym that doesn't grade non gi and just go by whatever skill people have. (though some people do train both, or go to gi class once in a while to get a grade lol)
I train for fun, to improve and to be healthy for the long haul and so belts doesn't matter as much. The newbs are newbs and the most experienced people tach.
ohhhhh i remember having to pay for gradings, it didnt guarantee that you would pass, but you still had to pay for the days event (this wasnt in bjj)
Daaaang shots fired 32:45
JT is like an old time western gun slinger
Did I hear: Danaher is not a good human? Is it because he doesn't spend the bulk of his time to humanitarian causes, and charity work? Mind explaining?
Reliable information from a good source.
@@bulletproofforbjj One of his near relative or his closest student or the like ? Lord O mercy.
@@tededo I will check with our source if they are happy to be named. They are a famous grappler who has trained with John and a Gym owner who almost affiliated under John but then after time spent with him decided it wasn't a good choice.
“Good and great are seldom in the same man.”
- Winston Churchill (a great man that himself was not a good person).
I've always found stripes odd. First, you need/should wash the belt and they fall off. Second, a stripe is just another belt. People talk trash about arts (TKD etc.) having 12 belts "handing" one out every 6 months but jiujitsu just does 16 stripes and one every 6 months or so(if you train regular). Stripes/belts/ don't matter because "the sky keeps secrets but the mat tells no lies". Belts are fine but the stripes just slow class down with everyone trying to figure out where to line up(that's just another aggravating thing though). My first jiujitsu school just sort of lined up however, warmed up, and then got to it. I think belts and stripes matter more to people with some sort of confidence issue, kinda like a guy working a part time job to get a flashy car instead of getting ahead or a guy who puts the big bills on the outside of the money clip. Belts and stripes are fun for the kids though.
Wait some places line up by stripe order on top of color I’ve only ever seen it done by belt color
People who obsess over stripes usually have confidence issues, but I find it equally so that people that disrespect the discipline systems in traditional martial arts have attitude problems, and as grown ups, can't handle themselves in ranked environments.
@@af4396 you might be right. I know I got tired of taking 10 minutes out of my class time trying to get lined up by belt (not bad) and stripe (okay then) to bow in and out. I left and found a place where everyone is laid back and we just get to it. The training is better (for me) and I just enjoy the lack of nonsense (my opinion). Military, fire service, and a work place need a ranking system because someone has to make decisions when the "SOP" doesn't apply. If you're an adult rank shouldn't matter as respect should be obvious. If you're a kid then it may help in structure of a class. Before I started bjj in 99 I had came from a very rigid rank and structured karate system. Bjj was a breath of fresh air in the beginning because it was not considered a traditional martial art. As the years have gone by this had changed in many schools. There are now both types of schools and as a old dude I prefer the laid back atmosphere.
The school I go to does a stripe night every 6 months for people who have attended 2 classes a week for the last 6 months. Belt promotions are more random, and black belt promotions get judged by a committee of professors from other schools in the organization.
Change gyms
@@BPchadlite why? 2.5 years to get a blue belt and merit based after that seems pretty legit
Nothing wrong with having a system. Attending classes regularly is probably the key aspect of improvement.
@@davewhite756 after 2.5 years 2 classes per week you get a blue belt no matter Ur skill level?
I'm a white belt. My gym gives you a stripe every 20 classes, but you can't rank up till you pass a test and you can't take that test before 8 months of being a white belt. Not sure how the rank system works after that where I go
Is there anyone here who can explain the Australian GB stripe schedule for white belts?
I don't hink there is one. I trained at a GB school for less than a year and than got all 4 stripes at the firt graduation I attended. I think if your school promotes during class, you will receive the first stripe after 1-3months and that means: " ok you are not on trial anymore" and then every 2-3 months you'd get the next stripe. so, if you are good and attend alot, you could, by GB instruction, get your bluebelt after a minimum of 1 year
not I.
I like the stripes but, my gym is weird for only white belt do 8 stripes, first four are time based, next four are skill based . Every belt after is traditional 4stripes
Is there even enough space for 8?
@@McDojoLifeGermany 4 on each side apparently used be how renzo Gracie did it! That's his lineage, he said prolly going switch to the traditional 4 in near future
Weird
Thats seems quite unique.
I'm a white belt. My gym gives you a stripe every 20 classes, but you can't rank up until you pass a test and you can't take that test until you've been a white belt for 8 months. I'm not sure how the rank system works after white belt where I go
No stripes for me please. Our gym sometimes give white belts one stripe as a motivator. I'd rather have a well used belt than a belt with 4 stripes which my teacher has to approve for and also falls of in the wash
tell me you don't get that little flutter in your heart when coach grabs the tape?
"They're a four stripe and im a one stripe, wawawaa shut the fk up" 😂😂😂
I am cool with earned stripes. Not striped for the number representation of the money/time you have spent. Skill not money.
So this is where my girl heard ''Compact lil' unit'', right? .... right?🥺
gimme a timestamp for reference plz!
It's at Manscaped's add at start, 01:00
Judoman here. Every half belt counts jajajjaja hahaaha
Joey here - strongly agree : )
@@bulletproofforbjj :)
Rack Off! I like a stripe once and while 😅
I agree...Stripes are important and needed...
Love me a stripe!
@@bulletproofforbjj Me too! As a 10th Planet guy now (for almost three years), I miss them.
what’s the deal with John Danaher not being a good person?
John Danaher
For me it’s either do stripes or don’t. I hate when coaches give them for no rhyme or notable reason.
Not having belts in BJJ or other marital arts would be like not having weight classes.
It is funny, rather than having a "traditional" style belt system - white, yellow, orange etc. BJJ has just as many graduations, you just don't get a belt.
Mac from always sunny
hahahah you ain't the first to mention : )
Ha! Thought I was the only one.
Was gonna watch this but the fourth advert before the topic was discussed was too much , bye
Why are men so afraid of body hair?
Im glad my gym doesnt do stripes. It seems childish to me to keep requiring a reward. Its like handing out gold stars
Strip for kids is good, anyone over 13 should not be getting strips. Because I deal with grown-ups, no kids. I am not interested in conditioning people to receive a star on the forehead. Having said that I would give honest compliments as a class grows advanced students will assist the progress of beginners, that is a great form of compliment, if I ask you to teach a particular more to somebody else, I recognize you have improved and making progress. My personal opinion is that promoting and giving in the strip stuff is perpetuating the problem of participation trophies.
Gordons roid use should have been the end of it. It wrecks the integrity of the sport and the art.
Sorry if the rest of us have other commitments or came to it late. Let us have our little fun with our limited abilities/time.