This is Bad…
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- This is upsetting a lot of people...
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Keep it civil in the comments. And to clarify, especially on the -5 part, I don't really have a strong opinion on that. Doesn't really change anything for me. I'm merely reporting the news and the posts/opinions that are circulating the community right now
everyone's subclasses passive traits were nerfed with tiny cooldowns.
"Keep it civil" huh? How about..... uhh.... maybe..... no? Are you blind?? This shit was told to us ALL THE WAY BACK in like March my dude. How power levels would work? Consolidation of the difficulties? Power leader? It was said there would be a deficit in power level in endgame activities. I implore you to look back at the TWABS prior. You being blindsided? That's on you. Let's be real here, are you expecting "ENDGAME" activities to be easy cakewalks?? It's not like every raid became "contest mode" all of a sudden... -5 is easy to deal with. Hell, the 6-man seasonal activities from last year were on a -5 delta. So were most of the 3-mans.
...But hey, what do I know right? [shrugs]
I won't be civil! 😈
I want Micah-10 to adopt me! 😈
went into a strike when servrs finaly became aveilable and enemis wear 1950 and max evectiv power was 1945 like they made strike -5 power under and i came into them with just 1900 power i and my team mates wear dying again and again like wtf.
@@MADOYS i'm having to level up with blueberry and sometimes generic legendary armor
They decided 10% was too many people running raids... they need it closer to 2% of the player base
Guessing the people complaining about the game being too easy still don't think it's hard enough
Bluds do know how much is 20 light dmg loss? Two phases on some bosses are much harder
i guess no lifers got nothing else going for them but being good at D2 raids
@@dhimmir they are only looking on themselvs, I wont really suffer but others will
@@vrothecar only 11% of the community raids.... how is that by any standards acceptable i don't get it honestly
@@dhimmirexactly so why not go play something else check out disneys mickys space adventure my nephew loves it hes 9 I think you will too😂
If they wanted to do more difficulty for raids, they had an easy solution at their fingertips.
CONTEST MODE!
People have been saying for ages ‘Just make it a toggle for those that want added difficulty’.
But Bungie put the carriage before the horse and forced the higher difficulty onto everyone.
Now, I only do dungeons, and even then only solo as I have no friends and I very much don’t enjoy doing things like that with randoms.
Even in FF14, I prefer solo stuff. This sucks for me honestly.
Play with me dude
Time to make friends buddy as you should of a long time ago might be good for you haha 😄
This game is not for you. Bungie doubled down on zero hour legend timer which made it like inaccessible to players who doesn’t have a good build and locked players out of outbreak catalyst. They only want to cater to elites. So stop giving any money to them.
@@Contractor48All of the older players asked for harder content to have a challenge
@@jrodriguez2133 You're a Destiny player you don't have friends. Like dude not everyone wants to play Destiny or he/she/they have/has no time or place to install it
Does Bungie want fewer players doing Dungeons and Raids? Cause this is how you get fewer players doing Dungeons and Raids. Even I, someone who feels pretty comfortable in those environments, will now think twice about joining a raid, especially with newbies who don't know how to do enough damage before a wipe mechanic, like Caretaker or War Priest. Sherpaing will now be soooo much harder as Sherpas will have to pick over players builds just in order to complete the encounter. I really hope these changes are rolled back because they really suck.
Light level being capped inside the Traveler itself is going to be such an ironic joke. 😂
Lmao fr
Well, I already thought PvE was a pain in the ass before, now I have absolutely no reason to go to endgame PvE now. I'll stick it out in the Crucible...it's been getting better every day as of late.
@@jeremyjohnson9585pain? Almost all pve content is super easy
@@Aves_1 sir, he was talking about end game pve, not strikes.
@@jeremyjohnson9585cap it's been getting worse 😂
I swear I heard every streamer/content creator say "the game needs to be substantially harder for the final shape" because of prismatic. Bungie heard the streamers and content creators so blame them.
for real they hear the 0.09% of theyre player base ffs
Its also their own fault for hyping prismatic as something it wasn’t. Its not game breaking, enemys still shoot you and they still hurt. I am having alot of fun but I thought the point was to be the most powerful weapon have ever been
They are just setting the game up for longterm stability and engagement because an easy game without expansions will die fast
at this point content creators are just looking for something to complain about because it gets views.
@@mazinhussein4297 so by that logic, helldivers which is objectively easy compared to destiny 2 nowadays, will die within the next year or so.
It's not going to make End game content harder. It's going to make Boss encounters longer and boring.
This the top will Not be affected but Farming and speedrunning was Hit hard... I don't really Care but it's Just boring
@@tarrabah5775 is the last boss on warlord ruin doable solo? You see i was farming for exotic and was trying to boost the exotic drop rate by completing it solo but I guess no buried bloodline for me.
Yeah man.... that's been a long time problem..... big ass bullet sponges definitely boring as hell unloading limitless ammo into a boss and doing barely any damage...... it is pretty lame for real
They are just setting the game up for longterm stability and engagement because an easy game without expansions will die fast
I mean... it LITERALLY makes the end game content harder, in that enemies will hit harder and won't die as easily. Enemies in a raid should not feel like enemies you find on patrol on Nessus. The fact you can one-bang a bunch of raid bosses (or COULD, idk how they are now) is just ridiculous. Cry all you want, it WAS fuckin' dumb how easy a lot of the raids were. That you could just completely ignore entire mechanics for many fights was stupid and mindless. Making enemies chonkier and harder hitting will hopefully at least make the encounters feel SOMEWHAT closer to how they should have felt all along. Honestly, probably still gonna be pretty easy though.
I have 6000 hours in destiny 2, I’m a d1 vet, I for years didn’t learn a new raid and wouldn’t even run ones that I have 100 clears on due to the very toxic side of the raiding community. Now knowing that they are harder it almost makes me want to permanently stay away from raids. Thanks bungie, I wanted to do salvations edge but fuck that I guess
are u you dumb? raid againts biggest biggest villian in destiny and it should be ease. Not everything is for everyone get good or dont complain and ruin it for the rest of us that enjoy these being hard
So you never ran a Raid but you might’ve. Is your complain about the change or the toxic people. I’m old in the Destiny community and I stay away from Raids because of the toxic people but if you’re was running raid I’m not gonna want to run an easy Raid?!?
I never played a raid & will never. But not because of toxic people, just because raids aren't for me. Also, finding people who aren't toxic isn't that impossible to find, it's just trial & error (like in real life). Not everything in life is toxic, remember that. I know it's easier said than done & a negative may outpower a positive, but in the end it's worth it. Also, people have been asking for a difficult raid, which bungie listened & they got it.
you can make your own lfg and control who joins and who stays. there's no excuse now with in game lfg too. the so called toxic community is an entirely optional experience. I've met great people on lfg. a friend of mine did pantheon exclusively on lfg. raid changes are one thing but complaining about the community is completely invalid because YOU are in charge of who you play with.
Couldn’t hold in that “I’m a d1 vet” could you lmao
While I think this could’ve been to try and offset power creep, I think that this was not the right way to do it seeming as now we’re just working harder for the same rewards
nothing bungie does is ever the right way to do it
I'm excited for this change I've seen so many players who have no business in a raid cause of Pantheon this makes it so people who actually take the time to research and learn the game and who can craft proper builds can do end game content shine and be rewarded instead of ppl being carried who don't look at any video or research of said raid instead want to be carried through it and taught by others that entitlement needed to stop also slows down lots of these group that charge people to carry them through raids as its become such a problem excellent change and I love how ppl assume this change would happen to Day 1 contest mode raid when I can confirm its not happening for day 1 raid... like its wild people thing bungie would actually add surges for day one raids 😂. Happy with this change, people who can solo raid bosses have a new challenge. I wish em the best I'm sure they will still do their thing just fine 😂 🤙
I'm sure they had prismatic in mind with these changes, but tbh prismatic didn't feel in any way 'broken' to me. Granted it's early days, but at no point during my legendary campaign run did I feel especially powerful with the prismatic kit. I love the flexibility and potential, and I suspect prismatic's brokenness is a bit exaggerated. Too much so to justify the changes to endgame difficulty/boss health.
They are just setting the game up for longterm stability and engagement because an easy game without expansions will die fast
@@mazinhussein4297stop copy-pasting
They need to stop making balancing changes for people who think neomuna not having regular red bars and killing HVTs just for glimmer were great ideas.
All they do is make activities more restrictive and tedious to complete which cause people to spend less time farming those activities especially if the rewards weren't adjusted accordingly.
There's better ways of making stuff challenging and pantheon showed that.
And this isn't taking into account some exotic weapons have a LOW drop rate like the Navigator, imagine having to do 3 hour solo dungeon runs MULTIPLE TIMES just to get that ONE thing you really want, what a turnoff.
Honestly trash change, raiding / carrying bad players becomes even harder, me and my friends could easily carry up to 4 people in a normal raid but now almost everybody has to know what to do. Trash and not enjoyable for trash loot.
Wow it's almost like raids require people to know what to do
@@blahbqlhwwnwnbut now it requires *all* players to kwtd and be f#%king OVERPOWERED compared to normal activities. Playing with randoms is much harder and solo dungeon runs are practically impossible. Shitty decision, considering that raids and dungeons have *already* been hard without a team of friends.
@ArheIy all players should know what to do? It's a raid with mechanics. And it doesn't really take too much to have competitive damage if you are playing older raids . The stuff I get about solo dungeons I agree on but other than that I don't think the change is that outrageous
@@blahbqlhwwnwn the problem with all players having to contribute like the carry players is that now taking new people into raids or running it with randoms is much harder. Before the change, you could get a couple of friends and carry the raid on your own. Now you have to rely on RNG to get you good team of randoms if you don't have a full 6 people fireteam.
@ArheIy again raids are meant to be hard and they should require ppl to know what to do
My three sons and i were planning to try some raids together, but i guess that's out now. We've only ever been able to eek out one or two in the past and were looking into Last Wish.
We struggled hard before this. Now, I'm guessing it will be impossible. Oh well.
in fairness last wish literally requires at least 5 unless you have special movement tech or are down on your timing to a T
They probably find an extra 2 people to fill the ranks lol, I cant imagine 4 manning with a great team, let alone some newer players who havent raided much @@cldus7442
Nobody asked for this. Nobody wanted it. This harms new and old players.
Old Raids Are so super easy though. The bosses just fall over. This change might actually make it better. I ran a few yesterday and it’s more than fine
@@saintbenny8287You aren't everyone. Quit trying to argue against options for everyone. You could still choose to play it on harder difficulty. Not everyone is obsessed with struggling nor does everyone have time to.
@Asgaardiangatekeeper all the current raids don't really have a difficulty setting and if you don't have time to play u can't then expect the game to be easier for you completely ignoring those who play the game more
Actually they're good changes. The game didn't need to be that easy, especially now that prismatic is out and we're more OP
@@AsgaardiangatekeeperPlease read my into the whole matter. They adjusted enemy damage output in raids a little. They also rescaled enemy health. It’s mostly about damage that we take in older raids and dungeons because those are barely able to kill anyone.
And yeah, I kinda do want to at least have my build matter in high end content. Especially in those that don’t have a master mode.
So wait, let me get this straight...... not only did they nerf Well of Radiance's healing to the point of absurdity; not only did they remove certain damage increasing mods such as Major Spec and, more importantly Boss Spec; not only did they then give many raid and dungeon bosses health bumps, with some like Caretaker, Simmumah, and others already having aggregious health pools before their buff; NOT ONLY did they hit everyone with a global 35% damage nerf in raids and dungeons; but on top of all that it was never mentioned in any patch notes? Um..... that just killed my entire raid team's current prospects, who are all casuals and have struggled enough already in VoG and Crota.
They gave us boss and major spec intrinsically, imo it feels fair considering how we have power crept to the point that we nuke everything
@@blahbqlhwwnwn so what? what's bad about that man? its old content in WoW i could run old content and still do Mythics let people have fun ffs .... why do games have to be tedious theyre games not real life
Git gud thing. Things like raids should be hard and gatekept. Social anxiety and cant work with others? Get fucked and stay outta the raid. Its not for you.
Unskilled and have no one willing to teach you? Get fucked. Raidings not for you. Work on those social skills first.
No good loadouts? Get gatekept and get fucked. Come back when youve done your research.
Sad that you see people with things you'll never have? Aw. Poor baby. Get fucked and gatekept. Come back when you're worthy of the items and raid.
Im genuinely tired of "accessibility" freaks in games. This shit should be difficult as fuck and mysterious. And it SHOULD NOT be for everyone.
This is just fucking WoW all over again with LFG raid finder shit lmao. Turned every activity in that game into pussy boring shit eventually turning it mostly solo for 99% of the game. Destiny makes a fine move doing the opposite and you cry?
Holy fuck.
Well was broken. Damage buff plus Literal Invicibilty is not a long term gameplay loop
@@tremendoshd2356 I would agree if we had some hide behind cover mechanics like in GTA 5 or some way to avoid damage like in Helldivers 2 but in a fashion of a classic MMO but with no reliable source of heal/aggro/tanking, well was really the only option and that's why everyone uses it. Don't tell me you can dodge I have already 80 mobility on my warlock (silly right?) and I can dodge until the point in difficulty until anything oneshots you and there's just too many projectiles to dodge anything. And don't get me started at Golgoroth where you have to stand in the puddle not moving and getting harrassed by the ennemy.
This explains why I was all of a sudden getting slapped in the Warlord’s dungeon when I tried to solo it yesterday! Nobody asked for this.
nobody but the try hard elites lol
Yeah, but isn't it also level 2000 kinda like legend lost sectors? if you thought those were easy a few days ago, go try one today, i dare you
Nobody except the elitists
@@JabroneyDirtoh joy I get to sit for 7 minutes a run shooting from out of range since they already kill me way too fast at 100 resilience.
@Northy-wawa which is why the game is trash.
This is what happens when you keep asking for stuff to be harder all the time they make things harder and now for the people who have jobs, kids and school, they won’t be able to experience these parts of the game at all really because to have an optimal build for stuff like this it would require upwards to 7 to 12 hours of grinding straight time that a lot of people don’t have, don’t blame the devs here they did what almost everyone who’s high level in this game asked them for make it more difficult and now normal people with lives have to suffer on the game because certain people can’t put a controller down this is really trash and I can’t even be annoyed with the devs because they simply just listened, here’s an Idea if this game doesn’t pose enough of a change anymore maybe you should take off the stuff that makes it easier for you or maybe play another game to challenge you because now the bar is so high casuals can’t enjoy anything above a strike in difficulty
"-5 power, but given surges to offset the power" Then why make the change if you're just gonna offset it with an option? 😐. They keep finding stupid ways to make you stay longer in game.
Probably to incentivize players to not abandon the other classes completely over prismatic? Half asking, half food for thought. I haven’t gotten prismatic yet to know if it is that legit
@@kjmont12prismatic will probably get buffed on surges as well for example solor abiltys get buffed by surge but the rest don't
because the surges forces you to use different weapons. its the same reason they created champions. people were using the exact same weapons with nearly zero variety. pre champions i would have never used a sidearm but now...
@@innocence3156 the surges are just annoying you'll probably have one weapon for every surge and just use those for the surge its not hard just dumb
@@ncrranger8449 i never said it was hard. i ignored surges all last season because solar was vastly more powerful than anything else for a hunter. im just giving an assumption based on prior knowledge.
Damn I already felt too stupid to complete a raid now I gotta worry about not doing enough damage, well fuck me I guess!! Bungie trying to ensure I never do a raid at this point.
This makes me sad tbh, as someone who's done a ton of raids all lfg, it's an amazing experience that just got ruined for all the people who wanted to give it a try. I feel so bad for you dude, wish you could be out here raiding with the rest of us
@@plaguedoctor5145the biggest issue is that the ones crying the hardest about how easy the game is, they have maxed put armor stats. They have multiple meta weapons and they have spent the most time out of everyone playing.
@@notchs0son exactly, and even then I have alot of the godrolls too and it _still_ sucks, now everyone needs godrolls and perfect communication
@@plaguedoctor5145 even with god rolls some of the best and top notch weapons like zaoulis bane. I’ve seen that weapon used by a bunch of people soloing content yea sure it’s not required but it seems to make thing easier.
@@notchs0son yeah, you can do it without godrolls etc, but by god is it annoyingly harder
blame saltygreppo. he complained stuff like this into exsistance
Shitty CZcamsrs want the rest of us to work their job on top of having a real fuckin job. So they bitch and whine, and destiny implements their bullshit ideas and wonders why player counts keep steadily dropping off.
Nha only 5% is his fault
@@IlPinguonautanot really he is responsible for it all cause I see no other high level raider complaining as much as him
@@beastman979 right? hes the number 1 thorn in most players sides. 90% of the nerfs came from him in one way or another as far as i'm aware
Im thoroughly enjoying watching his worlds first attempt where he is running hammer super for a panic button. He literally cant handle the difficulty hes asking for, he uses a crutch to justify it. The dude is straight up kidding himself, like why do so many destiny streamers have such ego
So That's why i went from an easy 3 phase on Warlords Ruin first BOSS with My Pyrogales to a 5 phase... And the bastard already hurted, now he deletes My health bar
One big reason I find this to very disrespectful to the player base as a whole is Destiny is a rated teen game. So teens should be able to play everything in the game & I personally don’t know any teens who play D2. I believe this is a big part of why destinys player count in on the low end compared to other games. Most of Destinys players base are adults and it feels like Bungie pushes away a big variety of age groups
Facts!
I'm a teen and I really try my best lol, it feels really awkward teaming up with other people because they're quite a bit older.
And yet its still in the top 10 of concurrent players on Steam every month just in march, april, and may alone player count increased by 21%, 52%, and 20% respectedly. April was when Onslaught was released, so that would be normal. May was when the expansions were available to everyone for free. but a 20% jump is still a significant number to a game avg almost 48,000 people on 1 day
Me an my entire raid teen are teenagers
It's even more awkward being female
Lightfall already felt horrible because redbars took 2 mags to kill.
So bungie thought "ok nerf redbars and other minor enemies but make endgame content 30% more difficult, we are geniuses!"
Actual morons.
ur complaining about red bars?
@@blahbqlhwwnwn not just me, a huge chunk of the community was unhappy when lightfall launched due to increased open world difficulty on neomuna
@@smiIingmanif ur struggling with patrols, I don't think you need to worry about raiding bud
@@blahbqlhwwnwn youre intentionally disregarding my point to start a different argument so im gonna assume youre below the age of 20 and not worth ny time. Have a good day.
@@blahbqlhwwnwnhe didn’t say he struggled he’s saying bullet sponges aren’t fun
Surges are not enough to make up for it. 💀
It's a 10 percent damage. Nerf with surge without it's 35
I'm excited for this change I've seen so many players who have no business in a raid cause of Pantheon this makes it so people who actually take the time to research and learn the game and who can craft proper builds can do end game content shine and be rewarded instead of ppl being carried who don't look at any video or research of said raid instead want to be carried through it and taught by others that entitlement needed to stop also slows down lots of these group that charge people to carry them through raids as its become such a problem excellent change and I love how ppl assume this change would happen to Day 1 contest mode raid when I can confirm its not happening for day 1 raid... like its wild people thing bungie would actually add surges for day one raids 😂. Happy with this change, people who can solo raid bosses have a new challenge. I wish em the best I'm sure they will still do their thing just fine 😂 🤙
@@jrodriguez2133 you fucking bot stop posting the same shit everywhere we get it you got dorito hands
@@jrodriguez2133you stench with entitlement is repulsing
@@jrodriguez2133 that's called gate keeping my friend. patheon was a try hard game mode so yeah understandable, but now raids that where easier before are now as hard as a master raid?? NAH that is just bad, it makes it so other players wont touch it, like if people ask me to redo a raid ill be like "hell no."
It’s annoying when bungie stealth changes that DRASTICALLY change the game and their response is “oops sorry, deal with it 😊”
Simple solution. Add difficulty settings to raids like how we have with nightfalls.
Each difficulty tier has increased red border drop chances, and chances to drop materials and exotics on higher difficulties.
My biggest issue with this whole thing is the fact bungie stealth added in these changes.
I'm 3 weeks into Destiny 2. I was disinclined to do raids even before Final Shape, but would probably have given it a shot. Now I won't even bother. Sounds like a massive exercise in frustration
it is brother, i tried and it's an utter shit fest, I've raided in WoW and other games and D2 raids are just fucking annoying and completely not worth doing, you spend 4 hrs doing a raid to get a whole lot of nothing
I'm excited for this change I've seen so many players who have no business in a raid cause of Pantheon this makes it so people who actually take the time to research and learn the game and who can craft proper builds can do end game content shine and be rewarded instead of ppl being carried who don't look at any video or research of said raid instead want to be carried through it and taught by others that entitlement needed to stop also slows down lots of these group that charge people to carry them through raids as its become such a problem excellent change and I love how ppl assume this change would happen to Day 1 contest mode raid when I can confirm its not happening for day 1 raid... like its wild people thing bungie would actually add surges for day one raids 😂. Happy with this change, people who can solo raid bosses have a new challenge. I wish em the best I'm sure they will still do their thing just fine 😂 🤙
3 weeks in to destiny is not enough experience to do a raid tbh
@@jrodriguez2133 whatever, bot
@@jrodriguez2133Continuously shitting on new players who want to learn how to do higher level content only stains the reputation of the community, which isn't even that great to begin with. You're not helping anything by being an elitist prick.
Pantheon was received to well I guess. It had to have been a test for what people thought about this but they didn't test it properly and with no warning on the changes as well.
Pantheon was cool because it was new but making old raid bosses as tanky as new bosses is stupid
@@zylo8000 oh yeah I'm right there with ya man
@@zylo8000pantheon was fun as an optional challenge with great rewards etc. Now imagine pantheon without anything that made it interesting and just being bullet sponges :(
Streamer: **Stares at the camera with a confident grin**
bungie: "And I took that personally."
As a solo player, this is yet another kick in the jaw to a long list of kicks to the balls that bungie has thrown me
This combined with pathfinder forcing me to play certain activities with certain weapons a enough to make me quit after 5years.
Well no more solo dungeons for me then damn 💀
as a solo player i have always felt like bungie hates my guts
Saved me 20 bucks this year
As someone who just started attempting solo dungeons (was working on farming the first encounter of Warlord's Ruin in particular), this news makes me so disappointed.
I'm excited for this change I've seen so many players who have no business in a raid cause of Pantheon this makes it so people who actually take the time to research and learn the game and who can craft proper builds can do end game content shine and be rewarded instead of ppl being carried who don't look at any video or research of said raid instead want to be carried through it and taught by others that entitlement needed to stop also slows down lots of these group that charge people to carry them through raids as its become such a problem excellent change and I love how ppl assume this change would happen to Day 1 contest mode raid when I can confirm its not happening for day 1 raid... like its wild people thing bungie would actually add surges for day one raids 😂. Happy with this change, people who can solo raid bosses have a new challenge. I wish em the best I'm sure they will still do their thing just fine 😂 🤙
@notbateman4298 saved me an entitled 😌 teammate we all win, we get new fun challenging dungeons and you get enjoy those lovely adventures they added 😂
Normal mode raids do not need boundaries and restrictions. There are master raids for those looking for a challenge, and they offer their better rewards for accepting that challenge. Let normal raids be what makes sense, an accessible way for raids to be learnt, and a way of letting more people be able to at least get a completion for the purposes of experiencing the game fully. And with the newest raid being a direct part of the story, you'd think that one would be more accessible too.
This is just going to make the Destiny 2 Raiding LFG community more toxic because more time = more mistakes. Good Job Bungie.
It's like the game wants us to play with a clan/fireteam and wants us solo players to just f-off
its a multi player game wdym
@@blahbqlhwwnwn alot of content can be done solo tho
@gman-1368 yeah but raids are advertised as 6 player and dungeons are advertised as 3 player experiences I don't get ur point
@@blahbqlhwwnwn dungeons are made to be soloed.
@@blahbqlhwwnwn dungeons can be soloed at times even raids if your on crack
Anyone else have a bunch of guns that had double perks and now with the launch of final shape they lost a set of perks
Wym? Is this happening? I haven’t noticed
looks like it’s a bug in dim
@@ApolloX_Games DIM allowed to select hidden perks on weapons. This feature was disabled shortly after.
Making this an optional thing instead of pretty much mandatory would have been nice
Fantastic, well explained video. I was worried that high level players like you and Aegis would be in favor of the increased challenge without considering how it affects new players. In my opinion, when you have a kind, knowledgeable, patient group of players, raiding is the best content the game has to offer. We need fewer barriers to entry, not more.
It's especially bizarre to me that this change is coming now when it feels like they've recently been taking steps to make raids more accessible to new players. The addition of in-game LFG was massive and they said they included Succession and Forbearance in the Brave arsenal to incentivize non-Raiders to get in there. Raising the lowest difficulty now completely counters those efforts.
I actually liked the base version of raids having basically no combat difficulty because this was offset by the fact that some people really struggle with and drag out the mechanics. I've done some Sherpa-ing before and most people get mechanics quickly but some take time.
Let's use Crota's End as an example. I've had LFG experiences that finished the raid in 34 minutes. These people will obviously not have a significantly harder time in the raid at -5 and it barely affects them. I have also had LFG experiences that took 2 hours to clear Abyss alone. These people do not need it to be made harder on them. I am very against changes that will drag new, low skill players down but are not significant enough to impact veteran players much.
I'm all for players needing to get better to be able to do certain content (Nightfalls, Solo Dungeons, etc). I just feel Dungeons and Raids especially have additional pressure, inherently being more social with a larger group of players and some players are kind of dicks. A lot of newer or infrequent raiders struggle with social anxiety in these situations, game difficulty aside. As a result, there being a no combat difficulty way of playing just for learning and practice was helpful.
My main idea, and this is spitballing off the top of my head, is to maybe have three difficulty options:
Normal: you are easily able to outlevel, how raids were pre-TFS.
Legend: somewhere around -10. Make a 20ish% chance on every armor drop to be artifice and same thing with weapons being adept.
Master: stays how it is or make it even more rewarding.
This would offer a clear path of progression to be able to learn the mechanics at your leisure and then up the combat difficulty as you're ready for the increase.
These suggestions are just me wanting to create a safe, low pressure environment for new players to learn how things work before having to put it to the test. I got called bad on Reddit for suggesting it and these suggestions are less about me and more about wanting more players to get into raiding.
Thank you for bringing attention to this. It's an incredibly important topic.
Doing this with the launch of Prismatic is so just ????
Like, why would we play Prismatic when you need one of 2 elements for optimal DPS/Add clear. Older raids being easier was just fine, if you want to make raids more difficult either tweak add density or adjust boss HP a little bit. Kneecaping power fantasy of being a super powerful godslayer by having 2 explosive be enough to send you flying then making the boss take 6 phases doesn't feel like the solution. If it were just Salvation's Edge I think I'd get it, but this is eh.
I haven't bought The Final Shape and this change is making me glad I didn't. It was already annoying having to grind my power up every season/year to get back to the power I was at to even do Dungeons/Raids, but making us weaker and telling us Use surges to(not even fully) compensate for loss in power is just limiting our options or mandating another cheap way to just us to keep logging in week after week.
This is bullshit, and they know it, which is why they didn't tell us they were doing it.
I've played through everything, it really isn't that bad, everyone will forget about it in a couple of months
Also, I do get power is tough. However, based on your description of how you interact with Game I assume you are not soloing dungeons. This is grwta then because your power will be scaled up to the highest person in your team. So not really a concern with grinding power too much. They've also made it so the power grind happens annually not seasonally. I wouldn't worry too much!
FFXIV does endgame right with multiple levels of challenge.
Standard raid is fairly easy, accessible to almost all, and can be done with randoms
Extreme raids are the harder versions, new mechanics, extra phases, really need a team that work well
Ultimate raids are the hardest and definitely need a well practiced team that will slowly work to master it.
Destiny could learn from this approach, give people the challenge they want
Yep it will get boring when it now takes you twice as long as it normally would for no reason other than Bungie felt they needed to make their babies harder. There is a balance to difficult, fun, and worth your time.
I'm excited for this change I've seen so many players who have no business in a raid cause of Pantheon this makes it so people who actually take the time to research and learn the game and who can craft proper builds can do end game content shine and be rewarded instead of ppl being carried who don't look at any video or research of said raid instead want to be carried through it and taught by others that entitlement needed to stop also slows down lots of these group that charge people to carry them through raids as its become such a problem excellent change and I love how ppl assume this change would happen to Day 1 contest mode raid when I can confirm its not happening for day 1 raid... like its wild people thing bungie would actually add surges for day one raids 😂. Happy with this change, people who can solo raid bosses have a new challenge. I wish em the best I'm sure they will still do their thing just fine 😂 🤙
@@jrodriguez2133 I hope it goes the way you’re thinking. I have a business degree in finance and my prediction is that player participation will drop off tremendously and Sony will step in then turn the game into everyone gets a trophy. The casual player base out numbers sweaty players by a huge number and those numbers convert to sales. I would rather have a happy medium.
And we still get the same shitty loot for double the effort
5:35 Warpriest. He had his health ridiculously buffed. Was running Kings Fall and he could not die.
Me who was planning to try to raid and grind Spire this weekend:
Damn... i remember doing it solo, tough shesh for sure!
@@mo6ujlhoe4y4ejlo3 Yeah I've already done it solo but now I was gonna do it for the challenges so I can try to get Hierarchy Of Needs
I'm excited for this change I've seen so many players who have no business in a raid cause of Pantheon this makes it so people who actually take the time to research and learn the game and who can craft proper builds can do end game content shine and be rewarded instead of ppl being carried who don't look at any video or research of said raid instead want to be carried through it and taught by others that entitlement needed to stop also slows down lots of these group that charge people to carry them through raids as its become such a problem excellent change and I love how ppl assume this change would happen to Day 1 contest mode raid when I can confirm its not happening for day 1 raid... like its wild people thing bungie would actually add surges for day one raids 😂. Happy with this change, people who can solo raid bosses have a new challenge. I wish em the best I'm sure they will still do their thing just fine 😂 🤙
@@jrodriguez2133 I enjoy the difficulty but I just wanna get my runs done quickly without having to optimize everything, I enjoy just playing around and swapping during encounters and whatnot. Now it feels like I'm throwing if I'm not using the surges cause everything else does so much less damage
the only thing stopping you is you. So what now youre just suddenly trash? Lmao im sure you'll be fine if youve done it before. Have some faith in yourself
Never touched a raid, and inly just started doing dungeons last season and was starting to enjoy the more challenging content. But this just ruins my urge to do them now. Which sucks.
How? Just because its a bit harder now?
i have done all d1 raids but 0 d2 raids
Exactly where I’m at
Well why not?
@@theassassin2514 time vs reward
The fact that they didn’t openly discuss this at least doesn’t sit well with me. Also the added surge mods feels like it should stay in stuff like strikes. Raids shouldn’t have surges in my opinion. Just make the difficulty appropriate without surges and leave the difficult content for master raids. Good video. Hope you’re well. 👍
Wasn’t this known before like weeks ago
@@NokayJay_ idk first I’m hearing of it personally
@NokayJay_ I swear it was aswell. I looked at the final shape twab about power from a month back and it didn't say there. I need to do some more searching since I swear I knew this was coming.
@@fpsempire0599 lmk what you find
As a guy with a few friends (not enough to raid) that has had absolutely HORRENDOUS experiences with Raids, this confirms that I will never play raids, it's simple at least.
Raids are a content I have been wanting to do since D1, I never have back then, tried in D2, but the general community behavior pushed me out, and now this change just goes making it clear that raiding will definitely stay closed for me, becasue the aggressivity of the raider baseline mindset of "Be optimized and one phase the oss or you're out" was already a turn off, and will only grow worse, thanks.
I was doing my first Warlord's Ruin run the day the servers shut down for Final Shape, I was at 1822 and I was doing fine with an LFG team. I tried after Final Shape came out (didn't buy the DLC yet, and I don't think I will) the raid became 1950, like wtf! Can't I even enjoy old content I paid for anymore? On Normal!!?? I loved the game in D1 and I will see it to the end of the 10 year story through ByF and other Lore channels, but this is so fucked up, Bungie literally punishing people who enjoy the game for what it is and don't treat it as a second Job
skill issue. This is kind of a bad sign if you people are out here crying this loud about to be real with you. Your same type murdered WoW endgame content.
@@Sanjiluv I get you, challenge is good, but things are, if I don't buy the DLC, I can't play anything anymore. It's not crying, it's facts
@@kevinfiorello Its definitely crying because there's a ting called light leader now.
It will bring you up to the highest light level on your team. You can still definitely play the game if youre searching for fireteams.
Im poor and bought the expansion. If I can do that like a good 80% of people can for sure. You could solve your own problem even easier.
@@Sanjiluv okay, thanks for the heads-up, last time I tried, which was yesterday, it didn't work and the highest light level dude left, but oh well... If you say it work, I'll try again
@@kevinfiorello If it does not work. Then its an expansion exclusive thing and that's kinda tarded and you were in fact spitting facts instead.
But so far the words on paper say otherwise.
Ive never done a raid before and ive played since forsaken. I just now started getting into hyper build crafting and actually using other classes and subclasses thanks to loudout and light level adjustment changes. Ive been doing more dungeons this year than ever and was about to start doing raids...now I legitimately do not ever wanna do a raid because in the end, boss health and loadout limitations determine how fun a raid will be for me.
Even the campaign is giving us average players a hard time
I just don't understand why we can't just have a difficulty option for the normal difficulty we had before. My buddies and i have been trying to take a couple new light friends through all the raids so they can experience them, it was hard enough trying to keep them alive without running out of tokens and succumbing to darkness, let alone being short 2 real damage dealers while they learn how raids work. This may now be an impossible task for us 😢
the -5 thing need to be explained properly. if your a low ight player it brings up your light level -5 to the highest light level on your fire team
Normal should be intended to learn mechanics with challenge as a complete afterthought. While hard mode/master mode can be the exact opposite.
Yup I’ve not touched a raid since d1 . Look at crota it should of had a d1 mode so as in familiarising yourself with the raid again and then regular mode with the added mechanics
I think it's the main problem of bungie. They do something nobody asked for, not asking fans something like "Hey, what do you guys think about this change that we're doing?" Then they mess up, nobody likes it, but they keep it for a while because they already made it. Same situation was with sunset: they made a core change in the game, fans were mad, but it took them few years to fix it. I guess just because it was expensive. They should change their community policy to something Larian-like
I was wondering why Salvations Edge felt so brutal after contest mode was over. My Nova didnt even kill the ogre in second encounter lmao. No wonder I was getting my $hīt kicked in :(. I've even been getting my friends into raiding, they arent great but I could carry them beforehand. With this change? I'm gonna have to break it to them that they probably cant raid until the get alot further in the game, a game they play _casually_ for _fun_ . Horrific change, Bungo.. you were doing so well...
The struggle for players to do raids has zero to do with how much damage a boss can take. This game has had serious problems onboarding new players for many years and Bungie has not been able to find a way to make everyone happy.
Bc you can’t its literally impossible.
They could start by not time locking everything, adjustable raid difficulties, bringing back stuff from content vault and making them permanent additions. Makes no sense we are at the end of the road no reason to hold back at this point
All I know is if we complain about these issues enough they’ll reverse it and put it back to what it was or modify it so that it’s easier for new lights to go into it and it won’t annoy the veterans either way if the community complains about it enough they’ll do something about it. That’s how it always goes.
OK bungie Minus the server issue on the day 1 you were doing so well and you have to shadow drop this apparently somebody on the dev team wanted to be an asshole and if this is supposed to encourage players it sure doing a fine job a.k.a. not I know not everyone's perfect even bungie but even the dev team should have seen this was a bad idea can we get a start of an expansion without a conservacy or at least one that doesn't majorly affect the game😑
It's like they looked at their raid stats and said, "Huh, only [low percentage] of players are doing raids ... Let's nerf several survival/dps staple supers and increase the boss health + encounter difficulty to even more difficult levels!"
I even called it since the start watch em fuck it up some how idk why i came back to this mess
As a D1/2 vet, I haven’t actually done a raid in years. Maybe KF in D2? I don’t remember. And LW being the last memorable raid.
Doesn’t help when I fear of being judged when I have no real experience with newer raids like Vow or RoN. Even as easy as RoN might be, doesn’t stop the fact that some people just can’t handle being chill and relax. To me, it’s a marathon, not a sprint.
Well looks like I’m not gonna be farming the first part of ghosts of the deep anymore
@@kbutler0615 The HP is also doubled lmfao
I'm a casual D2 player that had been away since the Curse of Osiris expansion. Did plenty of raids (even soloed Crota) in D1. Came back during Season of the Witch...and was just finally getting to the point where I felt comfortable with the changes of the game, earned gear I needed, etc...I was excited to finally get into old raids/dungeons and try to earn some cool looking armor, weapons, and just enjoy the experiences.
This RUINS the idea of that for me. I'm too filthy of a casual to want to go into a years old raid that has been magically been increased in difficulty. Knowing the power creep and power level made me feel better knowing that we were naturally "stronger" and able to participate in raids/dungeons with less stress. I appreciate that there is a "hard" experience for the people that want it, but that's not me. I don't enjoy getting my nuts crushed when I play the game. Throw Bungie's big well nerf on top of it, and raids/dungeons are going to be miserable for us casuals.
And how is it we've gone INTO the traveler, are fighting the witness, and suddenly old raid/dungeon bosses are stronger? This completely contradicts the entire theory behind us getting stronger. Canon wise, it makes ZERO sense.
Thanks Bungie...glad I paid for an annual pass for a game that actually makes content even LESS accessible for me and countless other casual/new players.
Haven’t we been asking for this? Have we not been complaining raids have been way too easy, hence why pantheon was so well received?
Pantheon was well-received because it was an elective difficulty challenge mode. Changing normal mode is a different story, at least in the opinions of many
Tell me about the community needs to make there minds up
People want normal raids to be accessible, and making it harder makes it inaccessible. If they made this change to master mode raids and dungeons, then not as many people would be complaining. @user-rq8ew1zy2m
I had some friends get into destiny recently and I was going to sherpa some raids to get them integrated into that part of the game. I guess that's just not going to happen now because of these changes that were made to gatekeep raids and dungeons further for what reason?
I was just starting to consistently raid too, now I don't really want to anymore. I REALLY hope they reverse this. 😔
Raid are supposed to be hard, you’re not supposed to do everything
@@thunderchief7256 he didn’t say he wants to do everything he is saying that he was starting to get into raiding but these changes make him not want to do that. These changes are unnecessary -5 power I don’t mind but when they’re giving the bosses cocaine and pumping the health to a couple extra million that’s when it becomes annoying and making it unnecessarily difficult because the longer boss fight is the more likely you’re gonna make a mistake and get sent back like 40 minutes and when that happens, people are just gonna leave the raid and it’s very frustrating
@@joey5598 And this is why you need to be prepared. The change was very sudden, but I wouldn’t say it’s unnecessary
@@thunderchief7256 it’s unnecessary how much health they gave the bosses for dungeons and raids.
@@thunderchief7256 especially dungeons. dungeons are meant to be solo And yet most of them have bosses with more health than raid bosses
As a long time, casual sometimes more…Destiny one player, I returned for the final shape. But hearing this really bums me out. I wish I had not purchased it because I wanted to do raids, but they were already a huge obstacle, but I thought… I’ll give it a shot. I had done some, but it had to be a really patient special group that would be willing to help teach. But now Not a chance really disappointing. Seriously who would want me on their raid team? What if I don’t have the specific things needed? How do you get better if the entry level to the raid is already so challenging that you can’t even get into that level? I want a level where I can go in and learn the raid so I can do the higher level. With this set up that’s never gonna happen.
I used to Raid in D1 in Crota and VOG but it was 80% waiting around, people eating to their microphones and listening to domestic issues and I can just slam my own head in a door for 2 to 6 hours if I want an experience of equal value without having to feel depressed about my fellow human beings.
But I understand how important Raids are to Destiny’s mystique and for hardcore players so this makes me think the devs are like;
“Well, we’re corporate drones living miserably stressful lives and our game is going down in flames so we might as well go full Dark Souls so we can feel like we were hardcore devs” or something like that?
The change is nowhere near a dark souls level. This was the same as the first week of pantheon. The bosses still fell over. Caretaker was an easy two phase with the new mechanics in place. Now they are giving us surges for more damage optimization if we want it and the health is bumbed up to match because tbh, people aren't experiencing the full encounter which is understandable why the devs wouldn't like that
Big reason no one likes to LFG is that people ALWAYS put "KWTD" in lfg post. Watching videos doesn't always correlate to actually doing the raids so how would a new/returning player get into any raids with that standard place on them and people not willing to guide them through.. idky people act oblivious from this
As someone who plays the game more than I realistically should, I see this as an absolute win.
I have 500 hours. I did kings fall once. Social anxiety is horrible and worrying about getting kicked because I didn't have the right build with these changes are even worse now. Unless changed there's a less then 0% chance of me ever doing one in D2 with over 500 hours in game
The end of last season I was really enjoying starting to push myself to try and get those soli dungeon clears. And I was looking forward to getting back to that after FS content, maybe rode the expansion hype to get back into raiding again.
If this is true, and they dont take ot back soon, I will almost certainly go into Destiny hibernation, and I barely came back from the last one.
I am regretting getting the annual pass now.
The salt n greppo crowd got their way. This really sucks.
Raids are extremely difficult by default. Really stupid move by Bungie. Sick of that wannabe-Dark Souls 'get good' nonsense. Nerdy elitism.
Most of the people I have met in this game, are also awful at those games.
@@Asgaardiangatekeeper yeah they're not the same mechanically in most ways, but they're both very difficult compared to other games in their respective genres.
Raids are not worth doing any more they gave the bosses crack boost to the health with -5 power making encounters last fall longer than necessary
These changes is just going to effect the game in a bad way like what has already been said its just going to make it harder for new players go into the endgame content and that goes completely against what bungie wanted to do
Saying the Raids were previously easy is an understatement. You would outright skip/ignore mechanics. Need we be reminded of the meta where Loreley Titan would div rhulk and facetank him to keep him in spot? Stuff like this happens because of undertuning. Only thing this REALLY affects is Master accesibility, which massively Powercrept anyway
Dungeons were already hard for new, solo players.. do they want solos to quit or what?! actually confusing..
Wait, so you mean that dungeons should be easier for solo players? Why? It is an activity meant for a group, not a solo player
@@Strzyborno, doing solo once boosts your exotic drop rate which is already miserable. I have been farming warlord dungeons for months and tried solo past months. The last boss with its damage and the ads made me quit. I thought that I will drop until i get prismatic and uff.
i am not so much upset about the power thingy, but surges are a stain because i love to use a variety of different builds.. but after like what? six months being forced to play solar i am just fed up.
So true at around 6:30. I LOVE destiny and playing almost everything EXCEPT raids. It makes no sense to do for me I don’t like trying to build rapport w online strangers, having random ppl leave because no patience, and banging your head against the wall for hours for RNG. Spare me I’ll go do a dungeon or do my own grind
Part of the raiding experience and difficulty is designed around having social interactions. If you don't like making those interactions raids definetly aren't your thing, despite the nerfs.
So content creators after Root of Nightmares complained about it being too easy. Then they do this and now it’s woah too hard. With the loud discourse after RoN of COURSE Bungie was going to do an over correct like this. I agree, difficulty should be something to select, but we can’t act like “nobody asked for this” when we spent the last expansion cycle talk sh** about how easy it’s been. We challenged them, this was their solution.
I’m just gonna throw this out there
Maybe dungeons and raid’s shouldnt be designed and balanced around new players since it’s supposed to be endgame content? And having them be too accessible has made them kinda boring, like this seems pretty good tbh
true but also those new players will become better players and want to do them so how would they play it unless they devote their entire life to it
sure.. good luck with way less players
I'm sure there's a middle ground in here somewhere yeah?
Your right but they could just make more difficulty levels and it would be fine make a easy mode with less rewards to make them learn the mechanics then after they learn they work there way up to do the actual thing getting actual rewards
@@Crimsondragon-zf5slI'm not sitting around learning a raid for no rewards, I don't know anybody who would either.
Bungies reply: “Too bad. Get Good”. 😂
I played pantheon and was like “hmmm I should start raiding more, maybe learn the mechanics” then they do this and they want to lock my loudout?? Lock my loadout meaning only using whatever surged weapon type which I don’t want to do
So... surges are not going to be necessary to complete the raid. They really only are required in master where everything kicks ur ass. The buff from them is so minor compared to the handicap that as long as you understand how to do good damage with a more meta combo you should be fine despite not using surges. Somehting like a rocket cycle with a fusion or maybe Izzy would do great! It does take some time master. I'm still learning all the time myself, but it is worth it especially if it allows you to use the guns you want!
I’d say if enough people complain to Bungie they will revert it, but I’d rather they make it an option for extra challenge.
Some times i dont understand the d2 community" we want the game to be more challenging."
Bungie changes it to make it harder for the players base.
d2 playerbase: No this makes the game unplayable for the community
SOME destiny 2 players do want more challenge, but they way bungie implements it is the issue. not everyone wants the game to be a difficult piece of slog to play. if they had added a 3rd difficulty option that was harder than normal and master/legend difficulties then it would have been a win/win. but they forced it on EVERYONE
I do want more challenge but this isnt challenge this is a mundane slog that is now uncreative basic level raids and dungeons should be hard because of mechanics and difficulty not because we have to do 20 phases of damage to a boss and surges just make raids purely unfun oh you want to use your very fun strand build you like? No you have to use arc otherwise youll get kicked for throwing and if you don't like arc too bad that isnt a 'fun' challenge at all.
@ThePalebloodMaiden I do agree with the diffculy option
@zephyrgaming865 I remember when they did burns and challenges in d1 raids no one complained. Litteraly the main raid strat for almost the entirety of d2 has been mechanic then well. You have so many options for ad control it's crazy. Now a days if you can't 2 phase a boss in a raid its considered a waste of time.
Like I get why most are upset but you can't just rely on mechanics for difficulty.
Dude warpriest has to be 4 phased now and we were using ghallarhorn, dragons breath, and 4 apex predators with a well and 2 golden guns and golden gun snipers.... he feels way harder than even Oryx.
this is so dumb and aggrivating why the health bump why? like putting us at minus five and force specfic weapons hurts new lights and players that im trying to teach raids to this does nothing but hurt the content even at minus 5 and the health bumps were still gonna fry most of the bosses anyways this changes nothing just makes things take longer and hurts low mans its more aggrivating that they didnt say a word about this anywhere
"Be there or be square"
This guy, who wasn't there:
Wasn’t this in d1 why yall snowflakes complaining about it? Mind you we never had no well incandescent volt shot etc like what’s good with yall people are weird
What killed raids for me was the introduction of champions. That update made me feel like I can’t use what I want to use. I still did some raids at this time but it was mainly VOG. Now I don’t know if I want to even attempt any of the newer raids with this change. I’m also calling it Templar is going to be a nightmare. You need to drop him as fast as you can and with this change the ads are just going to over run most teams
They really need to make a new difficulty for raids that changes up some mechanics so that you don’t have to talk to other people and just be able to complete them without having to Lfg it could be like a harder strike or something. the payoff could be that you would ether not get as good loot as doing it normally or a lower chance at get the raid exotic but at least newer players would get a chance to do more endgame content. (I hope this makes sense there might be some spelling errors)
It’s honestly not that much harder at -5. But increasing the health pools was a fumble.
So difficult content is not supposed to be difficult? -5 isn’t even close to real endgame, am I jaded or something? This isn’t a big deal is it?
depends what access you have..
This is for normal mode
No. Content creators have gotta have something to whine about. Otherwise what else do they have? Their crying and whining about everything is why the game is the way it is and why you have to play the way they do.
3:10 just let him speak
It's the fact it's on normal they could of just made hard mode and put all those in there with better drop rates
Is this why contest mode was -25 light instead of -20? That raid felt like they went over the edge for enemy difficulty
wait so you guys are mad that... endgame content is... endgame level???
on normal mode ?
@@dixon137 yes, its..endgame content.
@@LocalGuardianInk you are just going to end up with way less players in raids and "end game" content
there are suppose to be diffrent levels of end game content cus people play the game differently.. like people without mics
Raids are not worth doing anymore. The loot is mediocre They gave the bosses crack allowing them to have double health With -5 to power making encounters go for far longer than necessary
My friend and I have agreed upon these two points:
-Raids are now more exclusive to the players who spend every single day power grinding and min/maxing.
-Bungie is at war with the casual player.
“Oh no, literally one of the main ENDGAME parts of the game is finally difficult, and requires buildcrafting.” Literal basic strikes are -5 power, this is not bad, and is a good change. Raids are not for new players. This is supposed to be difficult.
The final straw!! No new endgame and everything is difficult as hell for no good reason now. Terrible new loot in expansion and boring lonely biome, this truly is the worst state the game has been in. Everyone needs to stop playing and put a fist up bungos a** to force them to make a much needed change.