How to Solve an FTO (Bencisco Method)
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- My complementary solution document can be found HERE: docs.google.com/document/d/e/...
TIME STAMPS:
0:29 - Preface
5:11 - The scramble and the first center
8:56 - First two triples
13:42 - Second center
17:01 - Last 2 centers
23:03 - Last bottom triple
29:52 - Last 3 triples
It's finally here! An in-depth introductory video tutorial for solving the Face-Turning Octahedron using "Bencisco", my speed method. Advanced tutorials will come out over the course of the next weeks.
![[FTO] Sub-30 With 3 Solving Methods!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FGmhqWXaMrw/mqdefault.jpg)
Several people have asked about this, and I've realized it is an important detail that I failed to realize I didn't include, so I will say it here. For the last 3 triples, when you are completing the pair formation with the corners and triangles, we do NOT use the top-color triangles (the yellow ones). We are forming the pairs with the three bottom-color triangles (in this case blue, green and purple) as each of them are different. The top-color triangles will solve themselves on their own when this step is done correctly. Sorry about the confusion.
oh yes that was quite confusing... like Extremely xD
This stuff needs more attention! We need some big manufacturers to see the hype and make an FTO that is viable for speedsolving!
We need yuxin to make one
At last, Dian Sheng is producing it now.
Dien shang made a good magnetic one
Well waddaya know, diansheng made one
Took long enough but I have a diansheng and am learning this for it
I know this is an old video but I just wanted to let you know that Diansheng is sending out a new stickerless magnetic FTO to testers at the moment, looks like a sweet puzzle
I'm one of those testers. Been awhile since I've heard from you, hope things are well with you!
I can't believe I almost forgot to say this:
HUGE thanks to Jeremy for letting me borrow his LanLan FTO to make this video!
Wow this was incredibly in depth! It really helped me solve mine after it was sitting unsolved on a shelf for months!
This puzzle is much more complex and confusing than I thought. Which makes it seem even more interesting to me.
Yes! Been looking forward to this since I started learning! I've always got stuck when completing the last bottom triplet stage, so I hope this'll help me break through that barrier!
Thanks for making this Ben, I'm looking forward to watching it! :)
Now that there's a GOOD speed method for this puzzle (or at least the foundation of a good speed method) they should really look into adding this puzzle into the WCA.
Excellent idea, and very clear explanation. Thank you!
I’m very excited about this! If i find useful additions as far as algorithms or general approach, I’d love to contribute my knowledge.
I was struggling with this even while watching the video. Talk about a tough puzzle lol. In the end I still got it though. Thank you!!!
Awesome! I'm glad I could help!
This puzzle is so different and so much fun. Looking forward to modifying my LanLan for better turning
Thanks for this! I kind of wanna learn how to speed solve it now, but I need to get used to the turning
Thank you this helps me a lot I have an upcoming comp that has FTO as an extra event so this really helps me
Cool! Which competition out of curiosity?
Loco Cubing Pm 2022
#MakeFTOOfficial
Woah, really interesting it has a lot of big cube principles.
I do not own this puzzle, yet. But this made me think about it looks really fun. Thanks for the video :)
I memorize the colors by going backwards on the rainbow. (Purple Blue Green |||| Purple Green Yellow)
BENNAYYYYYYYYYYY!
In forming the last three triples, I noticed there's an AUF that breaks them up before CP. Might it be more efficient to make pseudo triples sometimes? This would mean pairing non-yellow corner stickers with any non-yellow triangle, rather than staying restricted to the matching triangle. You would have to make sure not to make a two swap case, but this would give you three L3T cases to choose between. I'm a novice, but I think this might work.
You are very attentive! Many of the top solvers actually use this technique (myself included) which you can read more about in my solution document. I have named it "Offset Pair Formation" or OPF and it will be a topic in a future advanced tutorial video. Very cool to see you thinking about these types of optimizations; you are already ahead of the game!
@@benpuzzles Haha, thanks! When I saw that the series was ongoing, I wondered if this might be one of the mysterious advanced techniques mentioned at the end of the progression expectations video. Thanks for the reply- nice to know I was on to something!
Thank you..
first center
tripplets around white green
second center (red)
last 2 center
last white tripplet (29:35 insertion alg)
last yellow tripplet "twisted corner" 32:53
34:45 l3c crrect but wrng
36:02 u perm
If anyone needs help learning the last alg, it’s very similar to A perm!
i love the FTO
Just got my first solve under a minute! Modding my Lanlan was worth it
Wow, if that's true, you're the third person to sub-1 ever! Congrats!
I’m hand scrambling for now and I’m not recording any of my solves so it’s certainly less than official but thanks! I had no idea I’m only the third ever
I wonder if this will one day be considered official by WCA
hey, where did you get your CMYK stickers? I really would love to resticker my lanlan fto with the CMYK color scheme. Thank you!
SCS no longer sells the stickers I showed in the video, but you can get a set from the Cubicle instead; they have an option for custom colors as well.
At the end of the "Last 2 centers" step -- what do you do if you wind up with just one of the faces that has its edges in the wrong order?
Ah! Never mind, I noticed my mistakes. I had the centers swapped entirely, that was what was causing the problem.
question about the FTO, also amazing tutorial i solved it for the first time since i got 3 years ago, but are there any parity errors that can come up, or will the strategy always work? I had this puzzle, gave it to a friend and got it back and then two of the triple pieces on the last layer were rearranged the wrong way and I couldn't figure out it if it was the stickers being moved or a parity. Thank you!
So two triangles on two different are swapped? That can be solved with an algorithm. Sorry I'm not at home so I cannot tell you the alg right now.
The corner permutation algorithms work just like a perms! That makes them so much easier to learn
Hi Ethan
@@Mike_zb sup
Are there any way to do a tutorial about the "2x2" version of the FTO?
Ha, found you
17:02 NUCLEAR RADIATION! That Rubik's Octahedron is RADIOACTIVE!
I was the 20K view lol
Edit: im trying to solve and watch at the same time and it’s impossible to understand
I DID IT
watched many times but still don't know how to deal with last bottom triple. perhaps explaining solved blocks on which face after each step would be better.
This is just too confusing for me. I cant figure out how to do the second core without ruining anything else.
I assume you're referring to the second center. The most important part is to use the completed first center + triples as a reference for the rest of your free moves. The block is in your left hand and all of the moves for the centers should only require your right hand to make the turns. It's very similar to completing 4x4 cube centers with the Yau method, if you're familiar with that.
@@benpuzzles Not at all familiar. But I'll try!
I'm solved FTO with just LBL+keyhole (corners and edges) and then centers with 9moves comms. Anybody doing that with LBL?
17:03
25:23 lbt
the “large trapezoid”and “small trapezoid” have the same surface area 😳
Yeah that's what I was thinking.
1 flip: U hedge U' Y' hedge U'
TYSM, I was completely stuck trying to figure that out!
@@brianriddle8389 same! It took me a while to figure it out from the video.
My thoughts (NOTE: contains criticism, but I try to be respectful. Also, very long comment):
Firstly, this is a good *start* to a speed algorithm, but because of how long it takes to do the last layer orientation, it doesn't seem to be much of an improvement over the beginner's method.
For those reading, most other tutorials (from what I've seen) follow a method where you 1. place in all the edges 2. use edge flipping to permutate all the corners 3. Use an algorithm that's essentially 2 edge flips in order to permutate all the center pieces 4. permutate the corners. They don't all follow that to a T, but they're usually some variation of that. The 3rd step takes a long time, though, and thus makes this algorithm less than ideal. The Bencisco method, however, has more steps, but each step (in theory) takes shorter. I say in theory because you have to memorize several cases in order for it to be an improvement, and in regards to the last layer orientation, we don't seem to have all of those cases yet. This could be a really good improvement over the other method(s), but we need those special case algorithms to make it actually worth it.
Secondly, despite what it says in the video, I DO NOT recommend this to any beginners for FTOs. This is a difficult puzzle to get used to in the first place, and you'll end up moving around pieces for 20 minutes or so before eventually giving up and pulling up this video again to see "what do I do in this particular case?". That or until you mess up and have to start all over. Most of the algorithms aren't intuitive at all here, and it requires way too much memorization to be a good beginner's method.
Thirdly, this is actually a really difficult to watch video. Benpuzzles, if you're reading this, please don't take what I'm about to say to heart. You come off as pretty egotistical in this video. Almost every sentence you say just sounds so smug and condescending. The way you insist we use a notation you made up instead of the standard notation, the way you act like we're somehow inconveniencing you by you choosing to use the standard FTO color scheme, and the way you say "of course" and "obviously" in such a condescending tone. I must emphasize, this isn't a critique on you, it's a critique on your delivery. When you give a tutorial, you should always remember people are coming to you for help, and you really have to be careful how you talk to your audience. Always remember, you're helping them, not the other way around.
With that said, I do think this algorithm is very promising, and I applaud Benpuzzles for coming up with it. As I said, it does seem to need some more work, but it does look like the start to something promising. :)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I always appreciate other perspectives on this tutorial and how I can improve it. However, there are many statements you make here that are simply lacking in understanding:
“Firstly, this is a good start to a speed algorithm, but because of how long it takes to do the last layer orientation, it doesn't seem to be much of an improvement over the beginner's method.”
This is completely false. The beginner’s method that you refer to, which is also known as the “cage method” has been proven to be less efficient than Bencisco. The average move count is nearly double that of Bencisco, and the fastest solve ever done with the cage method is not even under a minute in solve time. On the other hand, dozens of others have been able to achieve average solves times which are under half a minute with Bencisco. This is twice as fast simply because the method uses less total moves, is more finger friendly to execute, and requires less moments for recognition. Also, the last layer is not a significantly longer step than the others with practice. It does take the most practice, but I do state this in the tutorial at the end of this step, and I have given plenty of examples of certain cases that come up which are difficult to do at first.
“I say in theory because you have to memorize several cases in order for it to be an improvement, and in regards to the last layer orientation, we don't seem to have all of those cases yet. This could be a really good improvement over the other method(s), but we need those special case algorithms to make it actually worth it.”
There is no need for any special case algorithms for this step of my solution. The one algorithm that is used for the majority of it, the flipping algorithm, is only four moves long and is used intuitively to form the triples. This means there is no extra memorization. Yes, the algorithm is used over and over again to eventually reach the pair formation state, but the cage method also uses the same algorithms over and over again to permute the pieces, and does so even less efficiently. There are also fewer pieces to worry about with my approach since we are only dealing with those that reside in the last layer in the first place. L3T will beat the final step of the cage method every single time in terms of movecount, ergonomics, and ease of recognition.
“Most of the algorithms aren't intuitive at all here, and it requires way too much memorization to be a good beginner's method.”
I count only four algorithms actually needed in the entire method: the two flipping algorithms (each four moves long) and the two corner permutation algorithms (each nine moves long). These, along with the actual steps, is not a large amount of information to memorize for someone learning the method the first time. The rest of the steps, especially in the solving of the centers, can be learned simply by doing more solves. I am not saying that this method is easier than the cage method for a beginner to learn; just that the skill cap required is not far greater than it as you suggest.
You also claim there is too much memorization involved but then state that we need special case algorithms for the last step for the method to be an improvement over cage. Wouldn’t this require even more memorization?
“You come off as pretty egotistical in this video. Almost every sentence you say just sounds so smug and condescending. The way you insist we use a notation you made up instead of the standard notation, the way you act like we're somehow inconveniencing you by you choosing to use the standard FTO color scheme, and the way you say "of course" and "obviously" in such a condescending tone.”
I am sorry if I came off as smug or elitist in my delivery, but this has nothing to do with the way I am showing viewers the solution. First of all, there is no standard notation scheme for FTO actually set in stone. Various people in other tutorials refer to moves differently. Your statement that my notation is one that I “made up” suggests it is wildly different than what anyone else would use, which is also not true, as I explain in my solution document. In fact, I based my notation off of already existing notation from most of the online puzzle timers, specifically so that others can follow the scrambles. The only change I made was how the puzzle is held in the hands when following along with the moves. Furthermore, this notation also works better with the method itself, as again, my goal was to make this solution as easy as possible to follow along with. For those who may not know any notation at all before starting, this would be incredibly helpful.
I am not inconveniencing myself by using a color scheme other than my own custom one. I know both color schemes equally well, and had no trouble explaining or showing certain pieces with certain colors and where they have to go throughout the solution. If anything, I was actually conveniencing the viewers of the tutorial, as not everyone would want to completely resticker their puzzle just so that they could learn my method as opposed to others. The reason that I even had to mention that I don’t use the Lanlan scheme normally is 1) due to not using this scheme in my written solution document, and 2) so others are aware of this when seeing my other videos. I do not believe I was being condescending in that part; I am sorry if you took it off that way.
I do not know you, and therefore don’t know how much experience or time you have put in to cubing, but after a whole year of this tutorial being public, over 4.6k views, and over a hundred others learning to solve the puzzle with no problem, you are the first that has ever stated that they feel this way. There is no need for me to change the tutorial at the moment; however, if another puzzle company produces a new FTO in the future, I do plan to make a brand-new beginner’s tutorial for my method. Your perspective is helpful, and I recognize there are things I can improve with the explanation, but it’s also clear to me that you lack some understanding of the method and its background. To be clear, that isn't your fault though. If you are still trying to learn, I am more than happy to help you out further, and if you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask me or any of the other solvers in the community. I do hope you continue solving the FTO, whether you use my method or someone else’s. :)
@@benpuzzles Okay, I have to get this out of the way: This wasn't a baseless claim. When I first got my FTO, I tried solving it with the Bencisco method. It took me 5 hours. It was agonizing.
I'll admit, a lot of what I said was probably influenced by that terrible experience, and I'm sorry if any of it was hurtful to you. You have to keep in mind, it was literally my first time using the FTO, I wasn't used to the shape or movements of the puzzle. And as I watched this video, I kept messing up, having to rewind over and over, repeatedly trying to figure out not only how far back to rewind, but also just which way your cube was being held at that moment, so I know which faces to turn. It was complete agony, I literally had a headache at the end. And, I hate to say it, but after listening to someone for that long, their voice starts to get annoying.
When I eventually learned the cage method, it only took about an hour or so before I was comfortable enough that I didn't need to look at the tutorial anymore. And, obviously, you can see where my bias towards that method would come from as a result.
I'm sorry for discrediting your work. But hopefully you can see where I was coming from here, it really was a terrible experience for me. And I don't recommend beginners try using this method going in. Because while I'm sure this is an excellent speed solving method, having gone through that experience makes me reluctant to try to learn this method again, even so many months later. Which is a shame, and I don't want other cubers to be demotivated to learn this method like I was (and still am).
@@benpuzzles By the way, while I'm here, would you happen to know how to swap 3 edges around?
I ask cuz I made a big cube simulator, and decided to add FTOs to it. But I need to figure out how to solve the last two edges, so I need an algorithm to swap around their middles.
Thanks!
@@mathmachine4266 That depends on what notation you're using, and whether you're also trying to preserve other piece types. Assuming you only want to affect edges, here's a pure sequence for three of them in a cycle: alpha.twizzle.net/explore/?puzzle=FTO&alg=2R%27+D+2R+2U%27+2R%27+D%27+2R+2U
@@benpuzzles Coolio.
So I finally got around to relearning the Bencisco method. It was...still kinda hard, but much less frustrating now that I have a better handle on the FTO. The white face was easy. The red face...wasn't really that intuitive, but I eventually started getting the hang of it. The third bottom triple was REALLY hard to learn, because at the 29 minute mark, you kept rotating the puzzle around, and it was very difficult to figure out which angle to perform those sets of moves from. But, overall, I still got the hang of it. As for the final face....yeah, I tried. I really tried to understand that part. I just can't figure it out.
I mean, I can figure out how to make one triple. I was able to do it once, I can do it again. But that's it. No more. I can't do the other two. Unless I'm somehow supposed to consider every single possible combination of hedges, sledges, and yellow face rotations, then just choose whichever one solves those two triples without breaking the original, I just can't figure it out. If you could provide some sort of PDF containing all the cases and how to solve them, that'd be great. I get the feeling learning those triples is like learning F2L. Like, once you get a handle on it, it feels like a no brainer, completely intuitive. But before that, it's like "okay, the white sticker is facing up...what do I do here again? I can't rotate it into place...and I can't move it out of the way...what do I do again? Let's just look at that tutorial again...oh, right! I'm supposed to move the edge out of the way!" But, yeah, for now, I'm just gonna use the cage method to solve the last layer.
Also, thanks for sending me that algorithm! Using it, I was able to solve the 6x6. I...*think* I might have figured out a general nxn method? Maybe??? I could send you a link for the simulator, if you're interested.
Woaj
Woaj
Woaj
#MakeFTOOfficial