They Want To BAN Gouging Fire... But Should They? ft.
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Finally. A One Hour Metagame Discussion. Enjoy. Featuring the #1 Ranked OU Player of All Time, Undefeated 5-0 Basedlord CTC
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#pokemon #competitivepokemon #pokemonshowdown - Hry
Very interesting Complex nerf to KingGambit that Smogon is trying out, by banning literally every other pokemon in the tier he wont be able to get boosts from his ability.
LOL
This is insane
😂😂😂😂😂
Reminds me of Yugioh, when Halqifibrax was still legal and they banned everything to avoid banning the card.
Seen this comment on twitter
>Gouging Fire beats Gholdengo with Fire STAB
>Gouging Fire threatened to leave
It's a conspiracy I tell you
CTC sounds like he's speaking the word of God down to us
He sounds like he stole CBBs old warzone mic
Can't forget his crazy lines such as,"What are you guys? Sheep? Use your feeble minds!"
sounds like it and he is speaking Gods truth to us to. Praise be to the BasedLord. Amen 🙏
Take notes council
like?? LIKE? fix that right now son.
OH IRON TREADS MENTIONED HE ALWAYS MENTIONS IRON TREADS
finally, my opinion on the current gen 9 metagame has arrived
Listening to CTC genuinely talk about his metagame thoughts is one of my favs. Always smart as fuck
Hearing CTC use his brain on this channel is always refreshing
@@Yodaminnesotait’s cause ctc knows how Pokémon works on paper but can’t make plays for shit in lives
@@ioncavegrandma9256We simply aren’t worthy of his tournament-level play
I think he generally gives the ladder too much credit and expects opponents to make sheisty plays that the average moron will not think of @@ioncavegrandma9256
@@ioncavegrandma9256this used to be true lol but currently to the agency’s pleasant surprise he is undefeated in SPL this year iirc. Has he beaten the allegations? 🤔
Wouldn’t be a discussion video if CTC didn’t sound like he was calling from prison
Why do you think the cypher is delayed
@@nicholascoates8651is that the actual story or nah
Real agents have already watched the whole thing
"It's been over a year, if Gambit is still making you cry...Digimon" - blunder, 2024
Thanks for the new copypasta
"So I'm saying, you can't just say...
...
...
...
... Val." - what a beautiful quote by CTC. Well put basedlord.
i opened the comments just to find someone else laughing about that cut
TRUE
Raging Goob basically explains every modern Heatah in two words
Kingambit has an army of ghoulds and is paying the OU council for them to stay
The year is 2045, LC is the only competitive scene available over at smogon due to everything else being fucking banned.
Y'all some goobers
But we can't touch Tera Type. God forbid we see Tera types at team preview.
That would be so nice@@crossfire340
@@johnblunt6693 come on, it actually has to be a joke that kingambit wasnt even mentioned when GARG was, literally hardstuck in UUBL because it cannot carve a niche for itself against the ridiculous strengths of OU
@@propanesquid5234 Kingambit was mentioned, are you stupid?
Gouging fire swiping left on all of OU, this is crazy
Finch lost to Gounging Fire thats crazy
He probably was running curse Dondozo, non-bulk up Tusk, and Gliscor and still lost to it. (While not plausible to run all three, there is a good chance that you can lose to breaking swipe Gouging even with all three). Earth power Lando-T is the truth
@@20oxide36curse dozo loses to breaking swipe, it's not a chance it basically walls it, you just set up and flare blitz the switch
I love gf tho my goat mon
Hearing you guys talk about smogon's logic for banning moves reminded me how stupid that is all over again. I'm having to physically restrain myself from typing out an essay about how ass-backwards it is.
Anyways, CTC always makes me laugh when he starts listing out sets with 3 items and 12 moves to beat counterarguments.
>"I hate X"
>Doesn't do anything
>"Why won't X change???"
If you dislike it, you can discuss it in the policy thread(not the OU thread), to actually have a discussion instead of complaining about it in yt comments.
@@jackwalker7304 But the reason bax was banned was because of its loaded dice set, which uses scale shot. So even if you ban glaive rush bax would probably still be ubers.
And for the annihilape one, primeape has rage fist and isn't broken. How is banning rage fist on annihiape any different from banning dragon dance on gouging fire?
@@jackwalker7304 but rage fist on primeape isn’t broken, so why ban it?
Also I'm letting him state his opinion, just telling him a way to change what he doesn't like
@@jackwalker7304glaive is 120 bp, loaded dice makes scale shot 100 min, 125 max
If it 5 hits it out damages
@jackwalker7304 in addition to 5 hit scale shot being stronger than glaive rush, scale shot sets tend to run Swords Dance to really nuke things instead because it doesn't need DD as much for speed with hail support
Edit: The obvious draw of Glaive is its perfect accuracy, which is a completely valid reason to run it
as entertaining of a guy CTC is when he is joking with you guys during ladder games, its refereshing and very cool to hear him tal seriously and show his expertise, very good video overall
He is the best gen9 player
@@Thunderblunder777 and it absolutely shows in this video with how he explains things
This is the wrong dinosaur to be suspecting in my opinion. There’s a certain yellow tinged neck wandering around thinking it isn’t broken. But we can see you from a mile away!? 🤨
Ikr. Great Neck is broken.
Farigiraf is orange 🚬🚬🚬
This tbh, I started playing sp def hippo because it's one of the few things that can actually switch into it unboosted
yeah only thing i could see hippo needing is 2 pairs of heavy duty boots so he doesnt get hit by spikes spikes plus a dragon pulse on the switch is way to much for our hippo friend to resist also he needs 2 pairs because he has 4 legs@@johnblunt6693
Gold and Gambit stay dodging ban after ban it’s crazy, they ban all these mons but not them.
You're a clown, if you don't want stuff banned just vote. Most bans are based on player votes, even quickbans are based on survey data. Just participate instead of whining.
Suspects are based on survey results, go vote if you don't like it
@@Mingha0 not only do you not even know if I voted or not, but I actually voted no ban the first time lmao. 😂
tusk has more than twice the usage of gholdengo.
@@TomorrowNobodyusage =/= brokenness, I thought this was seen with Lando's constant #1 Usage in old gens showed this
crowning yourself fraudkuna of mons is crazy
Dumb story, I was struggling through Radical Red for a bit. I finally decided to put a gambit on my team and give into the meta and reverse swept the rest of the game. Felt so slimy.
Bruh they banned CTC instead of Gfire lmfao
ctc is the kanye of pokemon
Sometimes I be forgetting how good ctc is at this game, his understanding of the meta is second to none
CTC has proven time and time again that he's an undoubtedly top tier player but the moment he's featured on a live he'll start saying "oopsie daisy" after making the worst plays ever conceived
Been known CTC the goat, these young bloods don’t know the legend of his SPL championship trophies
The sukuna of Pokémon is here
The year is 2025. All pokemon have been banned except for kingambit and gholdengo. every game comes down to guessing your opponents tera to win. Gamefreak just dropped dlc 5 with a mega charizard z that upon switch in gets an omni boost and can learn 5 moves. Finch smiles: he can finally rest. “perfectly balanced, as all things should be.”
Charizard mega is actually a rock psychic type because fire beats the only two mons in the meta. It also learns a 95 base power 100% accuracy rock move that goes through protect
gouging fire should stay
this post made by the "keep landorus-t in ou he needs the work" gang
Lando-T is great in OU aside from gouging. Just an amazing mon.
Alternative: gouging fire should stay
This post was made by the "keep heatran in OU he needs the work" gang
Heatran is great in OU aside from gouging. Just a solid mon.
Alternative: gouging fire should stay
This post was made by the “If we’re gonna have a busted mon in the tier, it should at least look the part” gang
Nice discussion! In my experience the voting playerbase tends to be heavily ban leaning, and it has been regrettable to me to see the council being led in a similar direction. Arch should never have been suspected - we literally saw from SPL early weeks that people learned how to build around rain and it didnt feel overpowered at all and even had valuable defensive attributes outside of rain. Hopefully future tiering actions will be more patient to allow for balancing metagame adaptations.
Do you think it has changed over the years? As in do you think more players are pro ban than back in the day when we played a lot aka 2015-20 ? Or do you think it’s a byproduct of the metagame? Either way I agree with you there needs to be some patience for the metagame to develop, there has not been a stable period for real development since the World Cup meta last summer
@@Thunderblunder777 yes, the power creep in SV has been drastic and paradox pokemon like iron valiant have completely changed the way the game is played. Sweepers have never been better, and there is a lot of room for a slippery slope of incorrect bans to send the meta game tumbling. I prefer a minimalist tiering approach where possible - given enough time, "broken checks broken" will really just be a state of balance, just centralized (which is arguably good if not excessive). Pokemon like Espathra are incredibly easy bans to make because they simply cheese games and have no defensive value. Gambit and Valiant might also cheese sweeps but they crucially also keep a myriad of threats in check. It's a difficult metagame to balance, and I'm glad I don't have to do it anymore.
CTC speaking pure facts. First of all the Arch ban kinda destroyed the rain meta. And now, if we ban Gouging Fire, we will be left with a stale shitty Gen 9 OU meta. The Industry X IDM suggests that do not ban a single Pokemon.
s/o to The Basedlord & Blunderr
we need to unban miraidon and koraidon to escape stale shitty gen 9 OU frfr /s
some people really are acting like they can't enjoy a metagame because it doesn't have flashy gimmicks, short form content truly has destroyed our attention span.
DNB Gouging Fire. These ripple effects are killing the format on its own.
@watery2211 I can't enjoy this meta because gen 9 is boring as fuck to play
Rain meta was silly and braindead so I'm happy it's dead
Yeah, I also am in the camp of threats balance threats. By removing perceived threats, you create more imbalances, which necessitates more bans, etc., until you end up with a meta that has all of it's teeth pulled, then you even start pulling defensive pokemon like Gliscor and Garganacl because they can't be killed.
There was a point in time where Arcanine-H, who has the same attack and nearly same speed as Gouging Fire, was a threat. Now he's homeless.
Now obviously Gouging Fire has set up, a better secondary typing, etc., but we are still talking about a 115 Atk mon that can't even fully invest in the Banded set (308 attack for the speed boost,) or who runs a 60 base power move in the Breaking Swipe set. There are ways to adapt, Gouging Fire will always be good because he's versatile, has good typing, bulk, and movesets, but people have to realize that when a new set comes out that's effective, the reason why it is effective is because people haven't adapted to it yet. Both of these are new sets.
Bare in mind, also, if Bax was still around we wouldn't even be worried about Gouging Fire right now because the banded Heat Crash set would be less common and we would have another viable weather.
Put CTC on the OU counsel. Doesn't want to just ban everything. Actually thinks through what he wants to ban or not, and not just ban mons because they are strong. He's calling out the counsel for just wanting to ban everything
That probably won’t change much since a ban needs a majority to be decided. CTC would be able to stop a ban unless he could convince the council members otherwise
Blunder and some of his friend group were ou council in oras iirc
I have no idea how ou in 8 was the most stale bread metagame inactive counsel but in gen 9 they do a suspect like every other week
Them just constantly ignoring the nigh unkillable juggernaut that was melmetal that was a demon that was just allowed to exist
Too much action and too little action leads to mid formats
@@owenblount7334the suspect for it featured the highest dnb vote iirc. It was annoying but defo not broken and needed in the meta.
@@dharshannaidoo7956It was just really broken against offense, it was basically guaranteed to get a kill and a half, most balance teams had Corviknight or Zapdos so they were fine
CTC talking shit all year long and then having these well formed opinions with phrases like "that's just my two cents" in tier list videos will never not be funny to me
Love both versions of CTC though
Bruh they legit have fxcking DRAGAPULT listed as a possible issue . ☠️
Bro is a real menace, don't oversleep on him
@@vahahadziev i know hes a menace but is he an uber? I dont think so.
I always enjoy listening to meta discussion / tier list with Blunder & CTC, should start the podcast soon
A 1 hour agency special on the funny dino lion? Satisfactory
Can’t wait to see all the 1100 ELO meta correspondents in the comments give their input
They’re already here complaining about gambit and ghold
You're definitely underestimate blundino's viewers. Im 1200 😎
I'm 1300 and haven't played since the first week of dlc2 but that doesn't mean I won't spout out my nonsense for everyone to hear 🔥
When comments from meta correspondents actually end up mattering after it narrowly avoids that ban.
Remember walking wake?
Still can't get over the Sleep Ban. That shit was actually ass 💀
I would much prefer a para ban or even just a twave ban that shit is awful to play against
@@owenblount7334Nah that would just enable HO even more
Someone actually misses sleep lmaoo
@@martinwilches6583 lmao they banned sleep? Lool whats next burn and para too?
Holy shit by the end of this we are gonna play 6v6 no status no rng moves 100accuracy only moves stall games
@@Wonderlvndho is always a hard play style by definition cause it usually isn’t planning to survive opposing threats. Balance teams usually thrive in HO metas, and stall suffers making it a prefered meta for most players
Agency 1 hour special? We're blessed fr.
Now here's my 2 cents: From my experience, no Body Press/Bulk Up mon beats the breaking swipe Gouging Fire set. Proposition (lemme cook) let's start running Tera Fairy Heartran to wall Gouging Douche
U can use prima
Why is no one using the bread dog, is a better question.
"We are one ban away from a great metagame" ONE MORE ROLL
Insane they banned the right 3rd of the screen, nerfing the ability to read the posts.
Seriously why tf are we not even considering gambit. You cannot convince me that Ogrepon is more centralizing and oppressive than gambit come on Finch
Watched an hour long vid in 6 mins. Truly one of the Agency moves of all time.
Agent Dialga in the cut
Another Pokémon that I see less than gambit getting banned, this gen is wild
I'm convinced that people who whine about gambit and ghold all the time don't actually play. Like they're strong but they haven't been the most broken things for months
More metagame discussion and tier lists please. Goated content.
Everyone's favorite Triple Threat is SO BACK
Lets go gamers!
Yea ban gouging fire so my 4x unaware pokemon team can thrive
One random stored power abuser:
@@fanderp5954Time for Take Heart/Acid Armor Manaphy
@@fanderp5954I mean what is there now? Hatt I guess
These 3 are like shaq Charles and Ernie
I would kill for more of these discussion movies featuring the trio
They don't know about Heatproof Iron Defense Calm Mind Stored Power Bronzong.
Suspects tests are done horribly. Arguably have been for the last 3 gens. Instead of getting reqs to vote on a mon, we should be getting reqs on a ladder WITHOUT the mon in question, that way through playing we can see and support our stance on if the meta without a specific mon is healthy or if the mon should stay.
Why should they? Don't suspect tests happen to tell whether or not a pokemon is broken? How could you tell whether or not a pokemon is broken without them?
combine them shits, have 2 ladders and have ppl get reqs for both
@@watery2211We already know what the meta looks like now, and it would be worth having some idea of what post-ban meta will look like so voters can decide whether ban is actually a good idea.
@@ryanli5803 again the problem is that you can't find out if a pokemon is broken if that pokemon isn't in the meta. The point of a suspect is to ban the broken pokemon, if another broken pokemon emerges afterwards, just ban them as well.
how did ctc's mic get even worse lmaooo
Can’t stand Ogerpon. They keep giving these gen 9 mons perfect coverage. It’s so frustrating
Keep gouging fire, dashbun completely walls that set. Bring on the dashbun meta!
Edit: and I agree, the bans just lead to a new threat coming to the forefront. They just love it when stall and bulky teams run the meta which is boring as fuck.
Based
Can’t even blame Pokémon anymore the council has lost their mind
Post Elo
@@Mingha0bro you replying to every comment you in yo feelings 😭 got finches meat all the way down your esophagus
@@vey4339 based
I don't enjoy what sucker punch adds to the game, despite this being an upgrade I'd find kingambit more tolerable if sucker punch didn't require the opponent to attack and we were all expected to use something like fire paldean tauros to deal with it
Imo sucker punch should be +2 priority but fail if used in succession
These are the words of a man that has lost all 8
I just keep clicking sucker and keep winning, simple really
Gouges D Flames shouldn’t be banned, he’s too heat!
as someone who never plays ou its craxy seeing them ban p much everything that isnt gambit
they do this every gen. the ou council manages to make a stale metagame, band mons that arent real problems, and then claim the game is fine when its 80 turn switch-fests.
Opinion discarded. Watch the vid or play some actual competitive. It was suspected and survived and now there are way more checks to it with all the dlc drops. Why would they try to ban it again?
Opinion discarded
- clown carried by sucker punch 50/50s
Never plays ou opinion is ass
one hour discussion vid with ctc and joey it's good stuff
OU councel try not to suspect test a pokemon for one day challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]
they actually succeeded but You're a clown, if you don't want stuff banned just vote. Most bans are based on player votes, even quickbans are based on survey data. Just participate instead of whining.
Such an original L comment.
@@kekmandu6118 which is why I specified suspect test and not ban.
@@kekmandu6118lol thats what we call selection bias
@@kekmandu6118lool "suceeded" at destroying the game yeah
would you and CTGoat ever make a podcast where you guys routinely go over developments in the metagame?
Is it finally the time for Landorus-I to make his appearance again on OU. I'd like to see some mons get unbanned, hinder Tera in some way and then give Lando-I a chance on OU.
I mean AAA can handle it, it might be possible
@osinthaworld tbf every other AAA team has a pokemon with earth eater. And EVERY team has corviknight.
Every day that goes by in this meta, the more I start to think that we made a mistake trying to preserve Tera.
Ay YO love a classic agency triad appearance
28:54 is funny as fuck, 'I know a guy' type shit lmaoooo
So what kind of fucking metagame does smogon want at this point
god forbid they ban another setup sweeper..... poor ou players will be limited to only roaring moon gholdengo iron valiant volcarona raging bolt kingambit iron boulder darkrai hatterene zamazenta ogerpon dragonite great tusk
It’s hard to take smogon even remotely seriously anymore imo
@@nobodyatall9044 nah we need to ban sleep oara freeze and any semblence of variety because its "uncompetetive"
These bans are super pus
There's gonna be no pokemon left and their probably gonna ban paralysis and freeze status next. Some drone players are gonna b!tch about people not liking everything banned and just say "go get reps on the suspect test" as if that changes the point. How about not having a suspect test every 3 freaking weeks?
Post elo
OU is in Desperate need of tapu fini
i wish dlc 2 just bought back Tapu Fini and ignored the other 3 tapus lol
Any calcified vertebrae in the comments?
I honestly agree with suspecting or even banning some of this mons, perhaps even all of them
Unless you ban tera. Then you only have to ban Gholdengo
CTC has started talking like a refined man now, what happened to him? 😂
I’m getting reqs and voting to stop any bans going forward. It’s getting silly
That milotic stall team might go down as one of blunders favorite teams oat
The cycle of banning:"Lose a ladder game"-> "Never heard of this person" ->"This person isn't good at mons" -> "Someone worse than me beat me" -> "This should be banned so I can stop losing to bad players" Caring about the meta is clearly just a pretense at this point, otherwise gholdengo would have been banned a long time ago. The larger the showdown playerbase, the more good players who aren't into tournaments will be online, and the more "randoms" will beat council members. Sure power creep is real, but that's only half the story.
You know that suspect tests aren't done just by the council right? The community votes whether or not something gets banned or not. Unless you are arguing every single person who voted to ban are only doing so because they lost, you are dumb
The discrimination against dragon types will not be tolerated here at the agency. I humbly ask whoever is in charge of making the suspect list to leave dragons alone.🗣️🗣️🔥🔥
>Ogerpon is broken as shit, unhealthy for the meta
>Kingambit? Perfectly balanced, rewards good play
- some clown, 2024
Yeah. That clown is you.
the council fucking loves Gambit
CTC UNDEFEATED IN SPL GOAT!!!!
Those random ass burning bulwark sets be pissing me off
Baneful bunker but red
I hope not. Choice band gouging fire in sun is the only thing I enjoy about gen 9 ou whether im destroying stall with the proto attack ev spread or feeling like im using a train with the proto speed ev spread
CTC really said "Nah, I'd win"
Idk if its just me, but all of gen 9, the OU council keeps making bad decisions. I think we only need a ban, if a mon destroys the whole game. I think the OU council is not needed anymore.
You know it is the community that bans the mon in a suspect test right? Don't blame the council, blame the community
Heatah fajita but it’s a team full of suspect mons 🔥🔥
Damn gen 9 is wild with ban imo.
I wonder without tera would most of these bans still happen?🤔
They wouldn’t. Tera is the reason so many are getting banned since you can flip matchups and sweep with a lot of the banned mons. But you aren’t going to ban the gens mechanic
@@davidwaxter66
Except for Dynamax, but to be fair Dmax was just an objectively terrible mechanic in competitive singles, there’s a reason it was voted to be banned in an overwhelming majority
@@yosh9192I’m still sad we didn’t get to try Gigantamax only
@@yosh9192 Yea Dmax was intended for VGC as the pokemon company doesn't care about singles
After the success of breaking swipe gouge I’ve been using dd breaking swipe roaring moon. Very successful set, knock off compliments the defensive/utility side very well
I feel like you don't have enough power with that though, and moon isn't bulky at all
Sometimes i think to myself. Was killing amongus, breloom and such really worth it to keep darkrai around? How much usage does he get, that people like, that justified killing so many mons only real viability just bc one set was bad. "no no no, we don't like making this complicated, so instead of just saying this mon can't run sleep move + sash, we must ban another 5 mons from the tier to be forever useless uber mons".
DARKRAI wasnt even that fucking good, thats the worst part. Bro the council is literally losing its mind
@@C3l3bi1 well, if you hit that hypno on Darkrai you feel like Thanos. But at the same time, if Val hit that hypno, it's the same situation
Blim mentioned 😮💨
THE KINGAMBIT AGENDA PROGRESSES...
i ran dd/dual stab with that burning bulwark. it was pretty good trolling. you burn great tusk trying to check you then you sweep with heat crash. just pray your opponent doesn’t bring heatran 😂
*Syndrome voice* If everyone's broken, no one will be.
Someone tell me why smogon loves to ban stall breakers while keeping their fav mons.
Because 1. stall gets worse when there are less broken pokemon in the tier(as counteractive as that may sound) due to the fact that if the broken mons get banned, balance playstyles get better(balance has a good match up into stall. While HO has a bad match up against stall) as they can't fit checks and counters for the broken stuff, while stall can. The biggest example of this is Archuladon. Archuladon can't beat stall, because they all run clodsire, while it is harder for balance to beat arch, forced to run something like ting-lu.
2. With the less offensive metagame, teams can afford to run wallbreakers or stallbreakers to beat stall. Meaning stall is worse.
3. Overpowered mons aren't distributed evenly, there are a lot more broken offensive mons than defensive mons.
You are welcome Mr. Jordan
@@watery2211 thank you for the in depth analysis :)
if finch wants it banned it'll get banned
Idk how kingambit and gholdengo are still in the tier
If Gambit left, Pult would actually run OU again. But I like how the meta has evolved around it
We might as well not have gotten any new DLC at this point
You guys think fire types just dominate because they Naturally deal with Fairy's and steels?
They’ll ban anything but Kingambit
"Sus testing everything but the actual problems"
Garg is fine lol, someone on the council must have lost to it recently
Dropping a like on this the second it drops because you see the doctor and baselord and know you’re in for an agency special
Jesus can you meat ride any harder in one sentence