The Plane That Flew Too High | West Caribbean Flight 708
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
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West Caribbean Airways Flight 708 was a West Caribbean Airways charter flight which crashed in a mountainous region in northwest Venezuela in the early hours of Tuesday, 16 August 2005, killing all 160 passengers and crew on board. The plane, a McDonnell Douglas MD-82, registration HK-4374X, was en route from Tocumen International Airport (PTY) in Panama City, Panama to Martinique Aimé Césaire International Airport (FDF) in Fort-de-France, Martinique, France. While flying at 33,000 ft, the aircraft's speed gradually decreased until it entered an aerodynamic stall. The crew, probably under the mistaken belief that the aircraft had suffered a double engine flame-out, did not take the necessary actions to recover from the stall. The confusion and lack of action resulted in the crash.
Music: When The Lights Came On
Artist: Kai Engel
Listen to the entire music here:
• Kai Engel - When the L...
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Who else is screaming PUSH THE NOSE DOWN !
Me too Sir a bunch of times !
Yeah, what a pair of clowns in the cockpit
it is time that before being accepted to fly passenger airliners, pilots were required to have some qualifications in physics and engineering.
I worked at Heathrow for a number of years and I was amazed at the lack of basic scientific knowledge among pilots.
Perhaps the most extreme case was the day that a pilot who regularly flew 747s and 380s asked me to fit a plug on his new hairdryer.
More pilots every year are using automation without the first clue about how it works. I wonder if some of these guys have ever flown their current model of aircraft fully manually. No wonder that when an incorrect instrument reading is staring them in the face that the don;t even notice.
I think that some of the information given in this video of how the plane was able to achieve mach 0.7 and then stall was not fully accurate.
However keeping the nose up, while assuming (wrongly) that both engines had flamed out was unbelievable.
I have absolutely no flight experience but yes.
Here here
From 33,000 feet, and he didn't take the _"stall"_ warning serious enough to put the nose down and fly the plane. Incredible.
That type of plane has a glide ratio of 18:1. He could have flown, if needed, for about 150 miles without engines. Instead he chose to leave the plane in a stall for the entire 6 mile of altitude he had while he wrestled with a phantom engine problem.
Mind boggling.
Yo no hablo inglis
@@GugilusVugilusMagnus seems appropriate
Almost as mind boggling as Air France 447.
@@daveriley6310 That's a typo. Was supposed to be 18:1 Oops. I stand by the distance, though. And the stupidity of the pilots' response.
@@k.chriscaldwell4141 Accepting for now your 18:1 L/D, at best glide speed with engines inoperative and no wind, he would have had a computed 98 NM or about 112 statute miles of range. 33,000 x 18 = 59,400 divided by 6,076 = 97.76 nautical miles x 1.151 = about 112.5 statute miles. You would need a hell of a tailwind to stretch that to 150 miles, Chris. The highest altitude I've lost complete power was 22,000. About 15 minutes of gliding to get above the nearest suitable airport (OSH) and another 10 minutes of circling before touchdown. Did the last 5 circles with gear down to gauge the altitude loss per circuit.
Plane hits 33,000 ft. Equipment fails.
*Takes a bathroom break*
"I can't accelerate."
*Takes a lunch break*
Plane starts descending.
*Captain: "This Altitude Stalled song is amazing"👍*
"all this descending is making me hungry"
Jay Santos the g forces made him hungry yknow 😎😎😂😂
I hate myself for laughing at your comment - but it was funny 😄
No equipment failed. The equipment worked exactly the way it was supposed to. The Captain simply didn’t know how to react properly. Even if the engines had flamed out, then the nose should have been lowered to increase airspeed. That would have allowed the idling engines to receive enough airflow to increase RPMs.
😂😂
"We are gonna descent to 20,000ft... nwm 19,000ft....scratch that 18000ft. hmm what is that warning sound? Where is my cake?"
Hard to understand why a pilot wouldn't know to push the nose down in a stall. smh
Me too
It's terrible to watch this happening
It's as if this pilot had no idea how aerodynamics work. Incredible.
@covfefe YES. Finally, some intelligent people.
covfefe IKR There seems to be so many of these kind of incidents. It's early on in training that it's taught how to do that. yet so many don't follow the procedure. I've never been in an emergency situation myself, so maybe i am missing something... idk....
Wow. The pilot basically just let the plane drop out of the sky.
Air France approves.
@@xbqchm but 737max8 doesn't
Be respectful everyone
Solution,
Don't hire captains or pilots with names like "Omar". Ditto Achmed, Mohammad, Yassar, Abdul etc. Just leave them at home picking dates and olives. They don't belong anywhere near commercial aircraft!!!
@@jorgecallico9177 OK Jorge, and you should never have a more responsible job than a gardner
The "Hey look a little cake" made this so much sadder than it already is to me.
Just made it so human, everybody was happy just before this all started to go wrong no matter who is at fault.
Too much auto-pilot time. They forgot how to fly an aircraft.
Yep.
Well said, sir.
Modern commercial aircraft pilots are glorified button pushers. If a button doesn't solve the problem they don't know what to do. They have forgotten how to fly the plane manually.
Eric Buschfort , too heavy and too high doesn’t work for the best of pilots. Trust me. Time to descend.
Kevin C , you speaking from experience? I think not.
"Investigators believed that he (the captain) was likely fixated on the engine gauges and unaware of the stall."
Unaware of the stall? After the plane's warning system literally says "stall" like 3,000 times?
I forgot what its called but there is a mental condition that when you are so focused on one thing, everything else is just blocked
@@AllecJoshuaIbay Anyone with that mental condition should not be a pilot. And he did have a copilot.
@@robcanad That "mental blockage" can actually happen to anyone. As for why the co pilot did not intervene, i can't recall the answer to that
Even ATC was asking about what was happening in the cockpit! I have never heard of this before. Usually ATC could save lives by speaking up and they don't. This was certainly not the case. Can you imagine hearing "stall, stall, stall" over the radio?
Exactly. How does someone not notice the blaring "stall" warning, the stick shaking, and the word "stall" displayed in big red letters on the display?
'First Officer Munoz attempted to tell the captain that they were in a stall', as if the stick shaker and the repetition of 'stall.....stall....stall' wasn't enough. 100% pilot error.
‘Me talk no ingles’
yeah i was wondering about that too; why would the first officer need to tell the captain that the plane was stalled ? wouldn't the captain already know.
the 21 year old first officer must have been in a panic and trying not to get in the way.
For real
@@GugilusVugilusMagnus que es stall?💀
A 75 HOUR PRIVATE PILOT WOULD KNOW TO DISCONNECT THE AUTOPILOT AND PUSH THE NOSE DOWN TO MAINTAIN AIRSPEED!!!
Rob Z Disconnecting the autopilot was the first thing they did
@@PSNcharlie97 - No, the first thing he did was go peepee. He didn't seem too concerned.
Yeah I took ten hours of flight training and after about three or four hours the instructor taught me what to do if the plane stalls, nose down and fly out, then he proceed to take it up and stall it and make me recover literally like maybe third flight up.
@@TheDjcarter1966- I used to hang around with my buddy at small Airports. He had a friend that had a single engine Cessna and we would sit around and talk and sometimes he would give us rides. He talked about that all the time, like it is common knowledge amongst flyers.
Bro I learned that in the first hour of playing flight simulator
Who else is blown away that everything can go from 100% fine to 100% total hell so quickly, for such tiny things? Makes zero sense.
One bolt of the wrong size in the wrong place will bring you down whenever it decides to fail.
My brother a major airline captain and my husband a very skilled master A&P. Years ago, brother wanted me to get my pilots license. My brother absolutely was born to fly. Currently has major thousands of hours flight time logged. Me???? Chicken to EVER be a licensed commercial or ATP
Pilot!!! Even with all bells, whistles and safey (and back up safety) systems too much can go wrong in the cockpit or with commercial aircraft for my stomach to "stomach". I have been watching alot of these mishap/accident videos lately. Discussed several of them with my aircraft mechanic husband. In his opinion...one MAJOR problem with alot of pilots.
They cannot seem to recognize when cockpit/aircraft/personal events are starting to accumulate in dangerous sequence that have the potential for disaster. They don't recognize it or act to take matters in hand before things get fully out of control. Like this video
and many others it was not just one catastrophic event. But a series of events along with pilot error " human factors" that allowed them to lose control. This crash should not have happened. But the PIC/Captain did not recognize the chain of events and where it was heading (to correct it) long before they reached the point of no return.
And I have heard so many examples of pilots in an emergency situation that fixate on one problem (in this case the "flamed out engines") instead of recognizing the whole or real problem. In this case the STALL.
These videos blow my mind too that
so much is demanded of pilots trying to function and work with all this technology in todays commercial aircraft. And as was stated how quickly a routine flight can end in disaster! Just incredible!!!
Thats why I never became a pilot
nor even like to fly as a passenger.
I will drive or walk...
Lindy Cranwell just don't force yourself.tell your husband and brother that you'd rather do something else.
They had literraly 3 minutes to react
Cake n dead
*"Look, a little cake!"*
.....
*"Captain Ospina asks whether there is any icing."*
Lindsay Daly I was thinking did he mean on the cake orrrr ?
Lindsay Daly people
I noticed that too.
That makes it even more sad for me I don’t know why
I had the same thought: was he asking about the wings or the cake?
Eerily similar to Air France 447.... I cannot believe some commercial pilots don't know what to do in a stall...
AF pilot dont know they're in a stall
@@raphaelvildren7633 - Incorrect, two of three were trying to fly the plane properly. It turns out that co-pilot first officer Pierre-Cédric Bonin had been pulling the stick back all the way down almost to the water. It was only to late during a "climb, climb, climb" command that Bonin said he had been trying exactly that the whole time. With that comment, captain DuBois only then realized that Bonin's inputs - unrecognized by others - had been undermining their efforts. At the point of this realization, they were doomed. Were I in the cabin, I seriously might have killed Bonin for spite before impact could occur. A professional pilot pulling back on the stick in a stall for over 30,000 of descent! Not even telling the other crew. Maybe the others could have done better, but that was flat-out murder.
@@raphaelvildren7633 the fact they didn't REALIZE they were in a stall is a failure in itself. No pilot in the world, commercial or novice can afford to not recognize a stall when it happens!
too many computers now. they rely on them instead of flying the airplane.
@@raphaelvildren7633 1st O Bonin put the plane into the stall. Air speed sensor ices over and no longer works. Auto pilot disengages. Thats it. The plane is flying just fine. But Bonin seems to assume they are about to crash into the ocean and pulls back on the yoke and holds it there. The yokes need to be tied together so that both pilots know what the other is doing.
Was the pilot struggling to keep his crack pipe lit, after so many stall warnings nothing else makes sense
He said nothing
Anyone with 10 hours of flight training already understands the basics of how to respond to a stall.
Here, the conditions indicated stall likelihood. After the stall happens, the instruments indicated a stall, the stick-shaker indicates a stall, the voice-warnings call out "stall... stall..", your pilot tells you that you are in a stall, ... Yet, as a captain, you do nothing but the worst possible thing in a stall - pull back on the controls.
I actually agree i was an airplane pilot if your looking for a stall this is the perfect environment for a stall.
Anyone with ZERO hours of flight training can figure that one out. It staggers me, these are trained cockpit crew.
I know the basics from playing freak flight simulators. What kind of training did this captain have?
@@chadcrawford1502 yeah the point in question here is the 'Stall' itself. why the pilot reacted so poorly to the stall? even a newbie would have reacted better and prevented it!
The pilot says they are going to stall, but they never put the nose down. What the hell?
The pilot went full retard and killed everyone on board. Shame be upon his name.
And then came Boeing max saying hold my beer 🍺 I’ll show you how to go down
I believe that plane was in something called a super stall because of the wing design. Basically during a stall the turbulence from the wings blocks air from hitting the t shape elevator wings in the back making it impossible to push the nose down.
Jimmy Kimmel I’m out
@@elliotchocano9374
He was far from a deep stall
The crash was caused by icing on the cake.
The award for the most underrated comment, goes to you good sir.
Robert Jensen I second Adam Steel’s comment. This is class
😂
Lol lol lol
Ohhhhhhhh. Bad but so good.
Of all of the airplane emergency /crash video creators on YT, kudos to you for being the one who absolutely hits the mark every single time on screen text.
I wish others would take note.
You leave it the perfect amount of screen time for reading and comprehension.
We can take it in and think about it long enough to contemplate, understand and try to wish it away... sometimes to feel the sorrow or dread.
Thanks for making the videos so enjoyable.
It's completely crazy. Stall = shut of automated flight control systems, push the nose over, advance throttles, watch for engine over speed, and accelerate. Then recover, check position/ location, call Center (aviate, navigate, communicate).
The captain seemed more concerned about letting Center know they were falling out of the sky than doing anything about it. I think the captain just froze and panicked. Sadly the FO knew exactly what to do, but the captain would not listen. Once again....pride goes before the fall (sorry).....RIP
Basic Aeronautics !!!! How do these pilots forget it??? if the automated systems are not working right, turn the auto throttles and autopilot off and hand fly the plane!!! Are you trying to tell me that guy, from 33,000 ft all the way to the ground never just put his hands on the controls, hit autopilot disconnect button twice , pushed the nose down to recover... Watching video`s like this, with complete pilot incompetence makes me sick.
Precisely.
Unfortunately it is politically incorrect to filter out mental retards, so people keep dying.
Look, the AF447 A330 have fell from FL380 to the sea
@@komradenoah8245 The flight crew of AF 447 are another set of incompetent buffoons!!!!!
Your words are my words, bud. Totally agree
@@leonswan6733 They were suffering from spacial desorientation but yeah, they were not buffoons but just incompetent
That one with "Look, a little cake" at 3:12 made me laugh so damn loud
Why do i keep seeing you on aviation videos? I see you on TFS Aviation's channel and Awesome S5 guy's channel
Yes, and its cuz i am a aviation lover
And BTW say hi to my second account
@@stefanorusu2339 hi!
What kind of cake 🎂?
The first thing i said was, "Stall alert? At that speed? Nose down a little." The FIRST thing I SAW was the capt.'s flt hours, something like 5500 hours, and the co-p[ilot's was way less than that...I said, "Oh-Oh, here it comes.
I thought the video title was a little more telling. Almost like... I knew this plane was going to crash.
Doesnt take 5000 hours for proper stall recovery to be second nature.
@@Ryan-sw4xy well apparently it does, because it happened here and in many other cases too. :/
@@ZC.Andrew well I dont have 5000 hours, so apparently I dont know how to recover from a stall.
@@Ryan-sw4xy it takes a minimum of 5,001 hours to learn this. Keep at it!
Imagine being a guy whose entire legacy as a pilot and a human being in general is that when you were faced with a simple challenge and a plane full of lives in your hands, you cosmically blew it.
I always wonder what these people are like in their day to day life. Are they smart people who are good at what they do and just had a perfect storm of errors end it all? Or are they known idiots which get no respect from their coworkers? If you knew the guy are you shocked or are you not surprised. I wish they would do more backstory and interviews with people who knew them.
Ian Rozzano sometimes it's hard to know the whole story - even with black box data & flight recorder. May this man rest in peace. I read somewhere that due to the airline's budget cuts, he'd been forced to take on a second job to provide for his family. That's part of his legacy too.
Still, it does seem like a terrible error on his part. And, besides the captain, even with 1,500 hours the co-pilot should have known to go nose down in a stall. Yet somehow neither one acted. Strange.
RIP to all: passengers & crew
One minute you're being serve with a cake and the next, you're dead. Tragic. Poor souls.
so true.
Tragically moronic.
@@zippymax1 m?
L00000
The captain was a complete idiot. I don't know how he even got a pilot's license, let alone became a captain with an airline.
At least the two pilots last meal was a nice vanilla cake
How tragic. The F/O was only 21 years old and perhaps that was why the Captain ignored his attempt to warn him that they were going to stall. Thank you for another excellent but tragic video. RIP
you know what they say, in a stall, just keep pulling back and blame the engines
he was tryin' to do loopty loops!
Should have been a piece of cake.
The stall warning system was going off, beeping, and saying "Stall! Stall! Stall!" How could the captain have missed that?
What is stall in Spanish?
@@thomassheehan4193 "Entrar en perdida."
I don’t get it either. After about ten seconds of that I wanted to put the nose down on my iPhone just to shut it off.
@@thomassheehan4193 Gort, Klaatu barada nikto....
He didn't
As usual, GREAT JOB. I love the music in your videos. Heartbreaking crash
5 miles up to correct a nose up stall... RIP to all.
Thank you for posting Allec. The videos tell a story more than you think. So sad that this happens.
Nice vid, Allec. Sad what happened... I like how you show the important events in a disaster, and forcefully... :)
Push the nose down to regain speed and stability, you don’t need to be a pilot to figure that out. This has to be one of the most unusual aircraft accidents I’ve ever heard of. Human error again results in the loss of so many lives, not to mention all of that altitude to work with 🤦♂️😢
I'm sure it has to do with the lazy, relaxed discipline. The captain looked at the f/o and said, "Look, a little cake". Dude, you're worried about a fucking cake and not the plane. My eyes would be rubbing all over the instrument panel.
Imagine being too tried to fly and still the airline is pushing you to the limits
Jason Lurf laziness, the king of all killers.
It's a shame there is no way of putting more than one thumbs up per CZcams account for a comment that good.
Night flying is scary, hard to see the ground. Made rough landings in the dark.
I'm not a pilot, but I know enough about airplanes to know when you're in a stall your immediate task is to bring it out of the stall. Point the nose down, and the airflow over the wings with be established again.
it stalled like the Venezuelan economy
Mad Wax noice
Bro that actually made me chuckle lol
It also crashed like the Venezuelan economy.
Go figure, an American plane
@@ajones35 Sadly, not even the best American engineering can make something Latino....errr..... I mean fool proof. You think you made it so that not even fools can mess it up, and nature goes and makes a better fool.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call flying into "the coffin corner."
That's what I said. Benzino got sent to the coffin corner, you may not get my reference though lol
"We're going to continue our descent." Yes. Yes you are. RIP
You didn’t mention that West Carribean had been going through financial problems and the crew hadn’t been paid in months and as a result Captain Ospina was forced to take a second job moonlighting in a bar as a bartender in order to make ends meet for his family
To get a sense of what I’m getting at you might want to read the Wikipedia article about the crash and watch the Mayday episode
@covfefe the Captain was being pushed to the limit. He was working double time trying to support his family
Ahhh, makes sense, I work two jobs and crash my car everyday cuz of my fatigue but I keep working (extreme sarcasm)
@@CurbsideBills I'm a truck driver and ljust pulled an overnight run from Phoenix, AZ to El Paso, TX and I haven't slept since Wednesday night. We do push ourselves too hard sometimes. It's not the first time and it won't be the last.
@covfefe Fatigue, as in long-term insufficient sleep, can disorient even the best trained among us. Combined with night activity and a lack of experience or training, it can make you believe what you can't see and disregard what is in front of your eyes.
I like many fellow commentator's points but I disagree with some statements regarding the simplicity of managing this undesired aircraft state (high altitude stall) Anyone want some insight from an actual pilot who actually flies these aircraft?
The biggest factor that caused this terrible accident was an industry weakness in high altitude stall training, awareness, and recovery procedures, in addition to pilot error.
Flying up in the flight levels above 18,000ft gets pretty dicey when you learn how differently the aircraft flies in such thin air. For example, at 30,000 feet we may be flying over the ground at 540mph, but the planes wing only "flies" through an indicated airspeed of about 300mph. There simply isn't much density to help the plane fly so when something goes wrong and passes the tipping point it becomes very dicey if you're not careful.
At high altitudes, with a heavy jet, and a nice slick wing with high wing loading... the margin for error in airspeed between a stall and "ripping the wings off" is often less than 100kts..and the safe window to fly at is usually less than 30-50kts. Also, the faster the aircraft, the higher the impact of load factor (vertical G force of the wing supporting the plane). That's part of the reason they couldn't stop the descent because the wing wasn't able to fly based on it's angle of attack to the relative airflow. Another factor I was wondering about was whether or not the control columns were actually pushed forward and it did nothing. Some aircraft (T tail) can enter a deep stall, which when falling like this plane did, the wing is actually disrupting the airflow of air that goes to the elevator, reducing and even eliminating its effectiveness. This can be unrecoverable in some aircraft.
Exactly, and the one thing that you mistakenly left out to those who do not know is that along with the thinner air, combined with the load, limits the ceiling. Also the faster the more lift to a point. I know this from engineering. What I don't get is why they had the nose up, and I agree about the possibility of ripping the wings off as well in a stall. One difference now is the flight simulators that we have that did not exist not so long ago. Also there was one that crashed out here on the west coast a few years ago, and the jack nut failed in the elevators. It crashed when taken out of autopilot and the pilots did not check to see the status of the plane before taking it out of autopilot.
Assuming you're right and nose down input did nothing, would banking/yawing left or right not also cause the nose to drop? It seems the Captain made no attempts to recover the stall and appeared to completely space out.
The intro have me all the information I needed for the outcome, FO with just over 1300 hours flight time and CA just over 5k. Blind leading the blind here.
Yes it seems as if a standard nose high recovery would do the trick. Unload and roll. I'm no pilot though.
Wait, some think that a part 25, US made aircraft that while within the cg envelope can be certified with non recoverable stalling characteristics? Now I was a test pilot a long time ago, but that is news to me. Though this video didn’t share any FDR data, I bet that this was all pilot error. I mean wow, way before the stall, what kind of bargain basement training and experience standard to have to accept to have a guy that will just watch 50 knots disappear before the stall? Another thinks that 100 knots between over speed and stall isn’t very much? Hmmm. Interesting.
Thank you sir.
As always, well done Allec!
Thanks so much for your videos! What an awesome channel. Keep it up
Andrew Lindquist leopard gecko?
August 2005 was a tragic month for aviation. First, Air France 358 in Toronto (thank God, there was no casualties), but later, Tuninter 1153, Helios Airways 522, and this one. Very, very sad. RIP to them all
Excellent recreations my man. Very informative, thank you.
4:38 “PUSH NOSE DOWN” should replace “STALL” as the aural warning in jetliners. Too many pilots have brain-lock in a stalled aircraft.
Not the issue.
@@prophetsnake --That's exactly the issue..
Meh, use it as a backup option
@@alexbob7799 -a backup to what? -to a warning that doesn’t get the pilot’s attention?
@@GeoCalifornian no shit a backup to warning a pilot should learn "hey your plane is stalling".
because the problem was he was too focused on something that didn't actually happen, so the "stall" warning was filtered out from his brain
How the hell did a 21 year old get a co pilot job, much less acquire 1500 flight hours of piloting?!!
Was thinking the same thing! Damn
He's the Doogie Howser of the skies.
Frankly, I don't think an age of 21 serves as a restriction. But yeah, 1500 hours is not enough, I think 4000 hours would suffice, correct me if I am wrong
I agree. Many WWII pilots were 21 or 22 years of age and were still expected to handle large multi-engine aircraft under combat conditions. But, unlike this copilot, they had undergone an extreme weeding out process and were as well trained as unlimited wartime budgets allowed.
Easy Jet in UK had a 18 year old co pilot IIRC with a 26 year old Captain.
"Look, a little mountain"
You have a very excellent channel. Informative, accurate and educational. We thank you for your effort. Please keep up the good work. We subscribe.
Just got over my fear of flying and now I discover this channel !
Man, back in 2005 flew on one of these MD80's and I'll tell you, it was like cruising in an old Model T Ford, banging, creaking......went to the back to go to the can, which is RIGHT next to where the engines are mounted....heard some clank a clank like a ball bearing was doing a song and dance routine in the motor..THAT freaked me out, and also, there was a banging under my feet when I sat down...think it was the landing gear....I HATE flying...next time, I'm gonna have a bottle of red eye and take enough adovan to knock out a horse.....yikes!!
Im a 13 year old kid and I’m working my ass off in school to become a pilot one day. And I do the same exact thing, always watch this videos to learn, the reason is just in case this happens to me at any time of my life, I know what to do to get the plane on the ground and make sure everybody on my plane gets to see their family and friends
Im 11 with a desire of build my own airplanes, after discovering what is a black box, my focus is in avionics, i watch to learn, to see what and why the aviation mistaked and killed people's lifes, and do not repeat EVER again
Good! Building a airplane takes a lot of work and effort. I’m glad that your dream job is to do that stuff in the future. 🙂
@@itz_richard2725 yeah man! let's wait for it...
They should have put a candle on his Farewell Cake.
czcams.com/video/1jaZWEyu0eo/video.html
Before climbing in the pilots seat, he had just finished sweeping up the airport.
Yay. Thanks Allec.
I have seen many videos by you and The Flight Channel. You own them.
Never seen a First officer of a MD-80 that young, and probably never will.
Like a lot of these comments I cant understand why so many pilots ignore the stick shaker. It means put the nose down. From that height he should have been able to recover.
Good video man. Rip to the deceased. I was flying around the same time of the incident and its just one of those things that make you question your own life.
Captain: any icing? First officer: no. Captain: I mean for my little cake!?
Bruh, honestly I've never heard a captain say "oh look, a little cake" XD
Captain Picard did.
My first thought was when they were introducing the flight crew and said how much experience they have combined, I immediately knew this can't be good.
Less than 7000 hours flight time between them is almost like blind leading the blind.
The best Aviation Disaster Channel by a non NTSB person. A man that knows the stresses of cabin crew in such events.
Although this is a horrible incident in itself, the included cockpit warnings, the dialogue, showing the altitude as it crashed makes it all very real, enough to really pull at your heart strings. Of all the content on this channel, this one is a masterpiece.
When taking flying lessons the first thing I learned when entering a stall is push the freaking nose down!!
Additionally, I reach for the throttles and add any power I can.
Just so senseless. 🤷♂️
"Stall!! Stall! Stall! Stall! Stall! Stall! Stall!"
Ugh!!! 😤
Its like a aeroplane without any captain.
I’ve got over 10k hours in the MD-80. Fact is you’re in a lot of trouble long before the stall warning goes off if you get too slow in that airplane at high altitude. You can easily get behind the power curve and won’t be able to accelerate unless you aggressively add power and lower the nose long before the stall warning. The autopilot wasn’t the issue as much as their negligence of not closely monitoring speed.
Allec, your videos are wonderful. I always look forward to the next installment.
The only drawback is that the captions are almost impossible to read. Would you consider changing the color from white to a color that is easier to read?
In any case, keep up the excellent work. 👏🏼😁
"Accident"-sheer incompetence.
How the hell do you define accident then
I've been waiting for this for a long time!
Hi Gumball!
Hi! @@linuslimpan0
@@linuslimpan0 How you doing?
Hi! I’m great, How are you?
Me too!
>Plane stalling
>Tell ATC we’re descenting
>Should we do sth to recover from stall
>No no just tell we’re continuing our descent if we go past the infromed FL
>But how ’bout the stall
>Not stalling just descenting at -5000ft/min
Aviate, navigate, communicate. In this order. Seems like these pilots forgot about the first one.
And it sounded like ATC possibly heard their stall warning.
OMG you mean when you hear the stall warning three dozen times in a row the aircraft is stalled, who knew.
It hurts to know that I'm better prepared to handle a situation like that then a professionally trained pilot, and I've never flown any airplane. Such an easily avoidable accident. I sincerely hope nothing this stupid takes out a plane and it's occupants ever again.
Tomoe Yamagawa oh yah? You would know how to do a stall maneuver in that situation while thinking the engines failed on you... okay....
Zyran Push the nose down, at the very least.
Zyran Hey. Fuck you !
NOSE DOWN!!!! incompetent pilots to say the least. and why is a 21 y/o an FO on this plane...get real!! definitely not enough experience, unless he got it in his sleep.
I like my pilots like my whiskey. Aged.
Ernest Van Stangl, Agreed. I also like a little gray hair and a few wrinkles.
You know, the kind yo get on an Experienced pilot.
That kid shouldnt have been the copilot. The captain was drunk and high.
I read that the f/o identified the stall aswell
The pilot ignores a stall warning from his FO and instruments for 6 miles and kills everyone...this guy blames the FO what a fuckin joke
The captain really said “haha md-82 yoke goes brrrrrr” and lifted the nose
A descent rate of 12,000 FPM? The poor passengers must have been practically floating in their seat belts.
It has been a common situation in the last 15 years or so that pilots don't know how to fly airplanes, I have only flown GA aircraft such as Cessna 150"s and 172's and in training we practice stalls and spins to learn how to recover as well as engine out situations . Why do these so called pilots not know when you get a stall warning , and even light aircraft have these in the form of a buzzer , in fact your buzzer always gives a couple of tweets when you land, but at altitude the stall buzzer means push the nose down and increase power to regain control . I am starting to believe as in this case planes would be safer without pilots who don't know how to fly them anyway , these so called pilots told the auto pilot to climb to a altitude that they were too heavy to maintain not the systems fault as it doesn't know the planes weight that's the crews job, also in other videos I have seen the de-ice was turned on in fact the original crash report blamed icing on the engine inlets to be a factor but this was later discounted, it was said at this weight with the de icing turned on the maximum altitude would be 31.000 feet , understand this de icing uses bleed air from the compressor section of the jet engines thus leaving less air for the combustion section to provide thrust , the pilots should know this. The fact that innocent people die because these these would be pilots cant fly a air plane unless the automated systems do it for them bothers me a lot.
I am also going to call out the great big elephant standing in the middle of the room, namely the whole concept of "low cost" carriers. There is no such thing as cheap aviation, everything costs: aircraft maintenance and repair, fuel, on going training of top notch mechanics and pilots and air traffic controllers and so on. Videos like this show over and over again that when flight crews bear the costs through over work and low pay and poor working conditions, they often "get passed on" to the passenger/consumers in horrific ways..
proofbox, I sadly agree. I fly hang gliders only and even we understand the basics of flight theory enough to see how incredibly shameful of a crash this was. There is no excuse for stalling a perfectly airworthy vehicle in this manner.
Add to all that the coming major shortage in experienced pilots. They’re retiring faster than they’re being replaced. A really scary thought.
@@gomphrena-beautifulflower-8043 There is an easy way to fix that. Pay for their schooling and training, and pay them enough to live on. Provided they have the basic skills to fly safely. Just think of Buzz, he had a pilots license before a drivers license. How many amateurs fly these days? they are the ones that we need to be training, not those that are willing to work for the lowest cost.
Flame out on two engines, that is a good clue right there not putting enough air through the engines. Jets are simple, and the blades are easy to understand, and on down the line.
Don’t you learn basic aerodynamics on the first day of training? Wtf.
I was taught this day 1 of hang glider training. If we understand this you would think a jet pilot should without question have this lodged as rule one in their head.
Care to demonstrate?
@@lockhack I was taught this the first time I saw a paper airplane fly. When the air around it makes its nose pitch up, it stalls and the nose descends faster than the tail, which makes the plane recover and glide for a little bit more. I was 7 years old.
You don't need training, you just need to have a goddamn brain.
I really think all your videos should be made mandatory viewing for all airline pilots and crew.
Was the little cake ever recovered?
I read that the little cake was slightly damaged in the crash.
Robert Jensen Someone left the cake out in the rain...
It was found inside the pilots ass.
The response of the crew seems totally inadequate, particularly the senior pilot. Panic or total confusion seems to have set in together with refusal to understand the problem as the aircraft dropped like a stone. We learn later in the comments the captain was likely exhausted from over work.
Similar to air France disaster.
Sounds like Espina went to the same flight school as Cedric Bonin.
This.
Rule 1: never go full bonin
The captain's logic: *Oh i'm stalling, better pull that nose up and go backwards, fuq gliding*
I'm not a pilot and even I was yelling "PUSH THE NOSE DOWN!!" What was he thinking?
I’ve never flown a plane, yet I still know you put the nose down in a stall when altitude allows for it. Pilot really let that play drop from 33,000 ft.
Had Midwatch one night. ATC called hotline to evacuate base (Navy fuel farm). Incoming bird w/landing gear absent. Recommend to launch chase plane to confirm before hitting panic button. Landing gear in place & locked. Burned out indicator light on instrument panel. PHEW !!!
Great video as always! What was left out ewas the pilots turned back on the anti-ice which worsed that condition. The engines could not handle that altitiude with the weight and also the anti-ice being tunred back on
Captain thought he was entering the atmosphere.
I am actually a sociopath, when the stall voice kept going I started beatboxing lmaoo I hate myself
We need to make a techno remix of aircraft warning sounds.
same lol
Flight Crew: [while nose-up and bleeding speed] "Our aircraft is stalling but we can't figure out why!"
Daniel Bernoulli: "Am I a fucking joke to you?"
aircraft: "We're going down!"
pilot: "No, no, no... up.... you're going up... UP!" _pulls the stick_
how can he not notice a stall warning ? ive been listening to stall...stall...stall for over 2 minutes LOL
All the time the stall alarm was going off I was yelling "push the f***ing stick forward you f**k!"
A 21-year old co-pilot? Still, like the kid at the controls on that doomed Aeroflot flight, he had more sense than the captain.
Damn! What a terrible accident. The entire cockpit was screaming stall. I don't know what part of stall this captain didn't understand.
Fun Fact: The MD80's cruising speed is approximately 504 MPH (811.1 KPH) which IS nearly 537.8 MPH or 864.3 KPH, which actually IS Mach 0.7 speed. Then, reaching Mach 0.75 is approximately 575.4 MPH or 926.1 KPH.
This is not understandable. If something goes wrong with the plane basic flying comes first. Losing forward velocity too fast? Nose down. Descending despite your nose being above the artificial horizon? You are stalling get the nose down. Nothing else matters if you do not cover the basics. If you suspect there is an engine flameout make sure you are at least in a stable glide before troubleshooting. No amount of troubleshooting will help you if your plane is falling almost straight down and you are not attempting to correct that.Granted I only fly hang gliders but this is beyond basic flight theory.
You're right lockhack. If the airplane is stalled, recovering airflow over the wing is #1. I'd rather fly a 100,000lb glider than a stalled airplane regardless of the number of engines, operating or not. I wonder if there was some toxic CRM going on.
Insane to think they had ALL THAT ALTITUDE to regain control and come out of stall and they just sat there talking
Where in the hell did they get these pilots? They must have graduated for the "Three Stooges" flighting school.
I fly gliders / sailplanes and a continuous element of pre and post solo training is about stalls and spins. Annual checks again contain a high element of stall / spin awareness and the correct recovery techniques. Its incredible how many commercial airline accidents involve a recoverable stall element that is overlooked. Quite sobering given the amount of automation and the fact there are 2 pilots.
Wow that was freakin intense! Wow.
This makes me so angry he just had to push the nose down and apply power!! There was no warning about engine flameout omg stupid pilots are the reason for those lost lives!
Am I the only one who was begging them to push the nose down for most of the video?
“WCA 708, at flight level 310, requesting permission for immediate descent to flight level 000”
The stall warning sound is pretty catchy.