Miscast Mame - Angela Lansbury vs. Lucille Ball
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2014
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It's a knock-down drag-out battle of wits! Jerry Herman has a favorite, do you?
Mame
Music & Lyrics by Jerry Herman
Book by Jerome Lawrence & Robert Edwin Lee
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If you're reading THIS comment below with your favorite casting comparison - that's how I'll know you read this far. 😉 Who knows? Maybe I'll make it into a "Miscast" video someday…
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Rosalind's Mame will always be my favorite. Her poise and comedic background made her the ideal Mame in my mind.
@TigrisTheLynx 100% I've always said after seeing her I knew yes, that is the aunt I'm going to be and I think I do okay. 👍🏾💖
Agreed and I'll go further and state that Rosalind Russell's "Mama Rose" in Gypsy is the standard by which all others are judged, singing voice dubbed or not.
But if Rosalind got the role, would they've dubbed her singing like did in Gypsy?
I agree. Rosalind Russell will always be synonymous with Mame for me.
Agreed.
I’ve only known Rosalind Russell as Mame. She’s amazing! It’s one of mu favorite movies of all time 💖
This is such a better argument than I would make... which is really just "If you get a chance to cast Angela Lansbury... You cast Angela Goddamn Lansbury!"
Always and forever!!! Never Lucy.... I love lucy but I adore Angela 💕👏🙌🏼
And if you don't cast her then she will solve your murder.
@@nalaredneb78 Solve it/be responsible for it, tomayto tomahto
I saw Lucy in Mame when it opened at Radio City Music Hall in 1974, and also had the pleasure of seeing the 80’s revival with Angela Lansbury,. Both ladies brought their own style to the role of Mame and I loved them both!!
THANK YOU!!!!
What our critic here didn’t acknowledge very well is that A) Film and Theater are two completely different mediums and B) In both mediums the “precision of movement” is dictated largely by the director and/or choreographer. Even with the “same” director or choreographer choices change due to the smallness of the camera lens. Interestingly, his gripe about the Lucyisms in Bosom Buddies are timed rather precisely with the musical phrasing. I grew up watching and loving both the Lucille Ball and Russel films. I’m sure I would have also loved Lansbury in the role, but I feel his criticisms of Lucy were somewhat unfair given the very limited scope of clips he showed.
I saw Lucy in Mame at Radio City Hall too. I loved Lucy from "I Love Lucy" show so I loved the movie. Years later I would see Rosilind Russel and she h a s been my favorite since then.
@@TraceyYSmith I have never seen Rosalind Russell in Mame. I’ll need to see if I can find the movie with her version.
@@emmicaandsimica the Rosalind Russel version was done, I think, in the 1950's, before Lucy's version.
"Mame" will always be Rosiland Russell for me. No one ever performed the role better. After the Russell film version, it should have simply been left alone. No remakes. She was marvelous!
Facts 💁🏽♀️
@@antoinetteserrano3082 Just watch the original Technicolor film version with Rosiland Russell. That says it all. Rosiland Russell created a "Mame" that can never be duplicated or forgotten. She was the first to play the part, and although the later actresses to play the role were talented, that part belongs to Rosalind Russell and always has belonged to her. Same thing with the part of Dorothy in "The Wizard of Oz". That part will always belong to Judy Garland, regardless of re-makes. I hate re-makes especially when the first attempt is flawless in all aspects. Sort of like repainting the Mona Lisa and considering it better or equal to the original artist.
Maybe I should’ve said “Agreed 💁🏽♀️” as I full heartedly agree with the facts you presented in your first comment. I have the original version with Rosalind Russell & we’ve watched it multiple times. I introduced it to the hubs & my kids grew up watching it along with other classics.
My grown up daughters LOVE Rosiland!!!!!! We still watch it when we get together...and laugh and cry as hard as when we all watched it when they were wee❤️❤️
@@spiritindasky1311 A film I can watch over and over, never tiring in seeing it again. Rosiland Russell was a wonderful Actress and will always be the quintessential Mame. A film that in no way needs a re-make in my humble opinion. All of her films are very good. Another favorite film of mine with Rosiland Russell is "The Women", directed by George Cukor. From what I have read, "Sister Kenny" was Rosiland Russell's favorite film in which she starred.
April 1973, when "Mame" was being filmed, Angela Lansbury opened the Academy Awards with a spectacular musical number. You can find it on CZcams.
My parents saw Angela Landsbury 1966 opening week 7th row center and she blew the doors off! They never forgot it!
Thanks for your comment ❤
Lucy’s “movement lacking in elegance” was intentional; for comedic effect. She was actually a beautiful dancer. She started she career as a dancer. There are a handful of “I Love Lucy” that showcase it.
She might BEEN a dancer. When they filmed this, she was recovering from severely breaking her leg. She could barely ambulate.
Not to mention her films.
… but in ‘74, that was 20 years ago. Still, the role didn’t call for anyone cast to be Ginger Rogers - by design it was always meant for an older actress. The bigger issue was the bad choreography and that every aspect of it was to compensate for the miscasting of Lucy rather than the advantage of it. Because there was no real advantage to it. She did her best but must have known it was a mistake to get herself onto this sinking ship. I don’t doubt that everyone involved even Lucy regretted the choice from the moment they committed to it. The best thing about the movie is Robert Preston. The movie is so bad we never get a chance to acknowledge how great Preston was in the film. His “Living Loving You” is wonderful
@@rixx46 Preston was GREAT ! He and Bea & Herman's music were the best things about this movie. "The Queen Bee" (as Lucy was known behind her back) did NOT want Preston in that role. She felt he was "too short". She insulted him right up to the start of filming & then tried to 'cozy up ' to him during filming. He had NOTHNG to do with that. He did his job (wonderfully as usual) & then avoided her for the rest of his life (even when he & his wife moved back to Santa Barbara).
Isn’t it just interesting that Angela Lansbury was deemed too “unknown” for film audiences ... the three-time Oscar-nominated actress.
It's not a matter of being unknown, but the issues were "who is a bankable star to get a movie financed?" and "who will bring in box office?" I remember the posters at the time. They didn't even say "Lucille Ball." It was, in big, equal letters: LUCY MAME. If everyone who had seen "I Love Lucy" or "The Lucy Show" bought a ticket, damn Lucille's voice, broken leg, and the critics... this will make a fortune, so the studio accountants thought. It's the oldest story.
In the 90’s Patti Lupone got dumped from her Broadway contract for Sunset Blvd and the show opened late because the producers decided Glen Close should open Broadway after her LA run closed because she had a bigger name - than Patti Frickin Lupone. 🤷🏼♀️
I saw Angela Lansbury do Mame on Broadway,,,,GREAT!
Not only interesting it is hard to believe! Angela Lansbury had been around and well known for years.
Well, the thing is that Angela Landsbury was primarily an actress. When you thought of her you didn't think of ONE character - you thought of all of the parts that she played. There was no one focus that the public could fix on. But Lucile Ball was "Lucy!" everyone knew her with that one name. She was literally a part of every household, part of American pop culture - you heard the name you knew exactly who you'd see, what she was like and what to expect. Which in the end is probably a big part of the problem with casting "Lucy!!" as "Mame".
You can't blame everything on Lucy's acting or singing. There has to be discussion of directing and editing and who adapted the script from the musical to the movie.
I saw Angela in 67 sixth row center. Magic
@@lindakahler4799
I wish I could have seen it too. What a great memory for you!
Agree that Lucy’s abysmal singing and mediocre acting weren’t the only reasons it flopped. Almost every other aspect of the film paled in comparison to the Rosalind Russell version.
Lucy was superior to Russell! Russell was awful
Angela is hands-down TOO CUTE FOR THIS PLANET 😍🌎 what did humanity ever do to deserve her? 😚💋
I’m surprised Bedknobs and Broomsticks didn’t prove Angela could carry a musical!
Good point.
Lucille is a fantastic comedienne, but Angela is a great singer, an amazing actress, and a lovely lady. I love both ladies, but Angela wins here. :)
Wrong. If you thought it was all about the singing voice then you missed the entire complexity of the story and the characters in Mame.
@@zobma1 Not all about the singing voice, but if you can cast a well-known actress who CAN sing as opposed to one who can't, why not?
Lucy was queen of comedy in our household in the 60s. I only saw her *_I Love Lucy_* episodes when they went into reruns along with her other sitcoms. Every episode we watched cracked me and my Mom up.
Having said that it was 1974 and I was in the Navy stationed in Alexandria Virginia as a Radioman. My girlfriend lived in PA.
She asked me if I wanted to go to New York to see Mame starring Lucille Ball at Radio City Music Hall with her mom and a number of other people.
Of course I jumped all over that invite seeing how Lucy was my favorite comedienne, with Carol Burnett being a close second.
Now this is where I was either misinformed or I completely 'misheard' what I was about to see. All the way on the bus trip from PA to NY City, to Radio City right up until the lights went down in the hall, I actually thought I was getting ready to see a live play starring Lucille Ball. I was very excited and about to see Lucy in person!
Now I'm waiting for the actors to come out then all of a sudden Mame the movie comes on. 'What?!' Talk about being disappointed.
Anyway looking back on it the film was pretty good to me. The audience was laughing and applauding and everyone seemed to be enjoying it. I've watched it on TV a few times and still like it.
Though Mame didn't do well at the box office and wasn't a hit with the critics it does not define Lucy's career.
For my money she was and always will be one of entertainments funniest comics ever (as well as the *_"All Time"_* funniest female comic).
When she passed I shed a few tears.
Lmao nobody told u it was a movie
@@Patrick3183 Nah. Like I mentioned in essence if someone said it was a play I don't remember hearing it. And if they had said it was a movie it's not like I wasn't going. But at least I would have been prepared to see a film. I do recall thinking though why did we come all the way to New York to see a movie.
@@thewordkeeper To see a film at RCMH was a very special experience, a privilege I've enjoyed many times as a kid. I had seen 'Mame' at a local theater and though I was eight, I remember it well. At the time I took the film-going experience at the Music Hall for granted, not knowing that we unfortunately wouldn't have it for long. Wish those days would come back!
@@kennethwayne6857 Yes it was a memorable experience to say the least. The only other theater that I've been in that big was the Fox Theater in downtown Detroit when (besides movies) I used to go to the Motown Revues in the mid 60s.
You come off as a smugly effete blowhard.
The big difference between the two is one was live and one was a movie. With live shows the actors hit the stage running and keep up the momentum while movies are done in bits and starts. They often do multiple takes and a committee picks their choice for the final cut.
The best Mame was Rosalind Russell...and she was 51-years-old when she played the role.
Lucille Ball added a level of humanity and reality to the movie that Roseland Russell could never match.
I disagree. I've seen both movies several times, and Russell overacts. Lucy grounds the character and brings a strong authenticity to the role which was lacking from the movie and the stage musical.
RoverBoy1899 m
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVENT SEEN THE FILM!
Agree, take the music out , Rosalind was the best Mame.
An important item you're missing in your observation regarding these two actresses and the video clips you're comparing. Lucy was doing a movie on a movie set. Angela is doing broadway in a theatre. Even the clip you show with Angela and Bea is on a theatre stage. The process to create a movie film and to create a broadway musical are completely different and require different markings, sets, set ups and most importantly different acting by the actors involved.
I agree here. I know this is going to be an extremely unpopular opinion, but I absolutely adore Lucy as Mame. She portrays a big character that is unapologetically her self. The other actresses simply do not do justice to the big character, but then again, it’s understandable that Lucy was in a big movie, not on the small stage.
Thanks for confirming my thought that the film version of "Mame" was not only an obscene waste of film, but also an insult to the viewer. My eyes and ears are still bleeding decades after watching Lucille Ball in that horrific train-wreck of a movie musical. Lucille Ball was a smoked-out, arthritic, old-hag-voice who couldn't hold an on-key note for longer than 2 seconds. Be careful, this megabomb is still radioactive! Hollywood owes Angela Lansbury an apology.
LOL! I can't like this enough!
As Kate Hepburn said "I'm an actor who does comedy. Lucy is a comedienne." Lucy was also a producer and an astute businesswoman, not to mention person most responsible for elevating the television from a novelty to a must have. She's a show-business legend in the same exclusive circle as Hepburn. But she was not a singer or a dancer, as I assume she was well aware based on her many fruitless attempts to be cast in a show at the Tropicana. You watch these performances and you just hear Desi in the background chortling "oh oh Looooo-ceee!"
However, you do wonder how "Bosom Buddies" would have played had she done it with Viv. Their "Friendship" is a comedy classic.
The 41st Tony awards was the first time Bea and Angela were on the stage together since "Mame".
I don't care what people say... I loved Lucy in Mame. One of my favorite classic movies.
I actually had no problem with Lucy's comedic actions. She is the queen of comedy, doing what she does best. She failed the role for 2 reasons, neither of which she could possibly overcome:
1) Mame Dennis would have been in her 40s for most of the story. Her brother dies shortly before the story begins, leaving her a boy of 8 to care for. That would likely put her in her early 40s at the oldest. Rosalind Russell was 51 when the 1958 film was made. Angela Lansbury was 49 in 1974. Lucille Ball was 63, old enough to play Mame's mother and Patrick's grandmother. She was not a feisty middle aged woman, but someone at the twilight of her long career ready to retire. No wealthy oil tycoon was going to beat her door down in the Depression.
2) Angela Lansbury has a beatiful voice. Her "We need a Little Christmas" is a holiday classic. She has won 5 Tonies, mostly for musicals. Meanwhile, as you mentioned, Lucy was a chainsmoker. She croaked the notes and made Bea Arthur sound like Barbara Streisand. Lansbury's Mame soundtrack still sells well; no one has ever asked for Ball's soundtrack to anything without a laughtrack.
How did you determine that no one would ask for Ball's soundtrack? Stats please...or are you just spewing your own personal bias?
Let's also understand that Lucy had an injured leg from a skiing accident which meant her choreography had to be toned down.
Tour Creole poor pet. Frankly she shouldn’t have auditioned if she couldn’t dance. That’s how acting in a musical works. Not that I dislike Lucille ball, but I mean if you can’t do it don’t audition.
We’re forgetting a major studio wanted Lucy! If you’re an actor of Lucy’s stature are you easily going to turn down the star role in a multi million dollar film? Yes Lucy had influence but she didn’t produce the film, pay every dollar and distribute it on her own.... if she was that unsuitable why did Warner Bros sign her up and not fire her on the first rushes?
"made Bea Arthur sound like Barbara Streisand"
This deserves some type of Nobel prize.
Lucille was a comedy Goddess. There’s no doubt there. But Miss Angela needs a theatre named after her on Broadway! She is a musical Goddess!🥰
I saw the version of Mame with Lucy first and I thought it was good. However, when I saw Rosalind Russell in "Auntie Mame", I think she was superb, to me she was Mame. I would have liked to see Angela in Mame. They could have made it a made for tv movie in the early 80s which were really popular. All three women did a good job as Mame, though in my humble opinion, Rosalind is my favorite.
Lucy was made for tv. Angela was
Made for the theatre , I think Angela was a better crossover than Lucy was. But they were both stars on their own.
That's the thing that a lot of people miss. Lucy is arguably the most famous sitcom Mom of all time, and Mame is absolutely not a mother and that's the point. Lady Iris, My Best Girl, Auntie Mame. NOT Mother. She was too well-known as a sitcom Mom and that was a huge hindrance.
Only Roslin Russell as mame for me .
flossy gallaway most definitely Flossy 🤩
Only Rosalind Russell!
They have chemistry-BEA -and Angela!!
If you want to see SPECIFIC AND SUBLIME reaction-see when Lion gets a medal in Wizard of OZ! Agree???!!!! 3levels -3 levels of glee/appreciation!!!
some folks loved Lucy as Mame, but Russell did it far better
Kirk Barkley with out a doubt
Exactly I remember seeing that movie and fell in love with it and every time it comes on I watch it is one of my favorite movies it's one of those good times I can save my grandmother and I had a great bond from watching all these old movies and that in particular I love me some Roslin Russell
Thank you!
Rosalind was excellent as Mame
Lucy made Mame real instead of an exaggerated charicature. The movie holds up way better than most of it's contemporaries.
... I had the OBC recording of *MAME* on 7.5 IPS 4-Track 7" Stereo Reel-To-Reel Tape, and the sound quality was *BREATHTAKING* at the time ... and would still be considered so today. Angela Lansbury's voice was the perfect combination of exquisitely subtle character vocalizations, and gutsy, all-out, gloriously lyrical singing. Heard through full size headphones, she danced so effortlessly through my imagination that I could envision her every move, and expression onstage. From her, I learned the universal difference between Talent and Skill.
... and unfortunately the score had to be hacked to bits to fit the musical numbers from the show on to an LP that is limited to 46 minutes max. I got to see Ms. Lansbury in the 1970s revival and she was breathtaking on stage, as an actress, singer and dancer. Few people know she is a bona fide accomplished acting-singing-dancing "triple threat", and was one before the term came to be used for performers who really could do it all. (I also got to see her twice, in Buffalo and Toronto, in the tour of Gypsy she did a few years later after she played that role in London. And she was absolutely stunning in that too.) But as for "Mame", the brilliance of the sound of the uncut orchestrations emanating from the pit of The Buffalo Theatre ("Shea's Buffalo") for me as a teenage (& developing) musician were breathtaking, from the downbeat of the Overture to the last note of the Exit Music. The production numbers of what the orchestra itself gets to cut loose on that were cut to fit on the Original Broadway Cast recording "It's Today" and "We Need A Little Christmas", and "That's How Young I Feel" are stunning (as are others), adding brilliance to that score that is no less spine-chilling than the title song itself, (assuming you've got a pit of full of between 25-30 musicians of the required calibur to play it so well and precise). Like many of the stars in the shows back then defined the roles for all time, the musicians that backed them up set a standard of all around musicianship and depth that today is seldom matched even on Broadway, (not to mention just about any other "road" city). As a professional musician now for 40 years+ I've gotten to go back and play in Shea's with tours of shows I've been on. The first time, when I was about 30, I was thrilled to be back in my hometown playing in the pit of that art deco vaudeville / movie palace that was a major inspiration for me to become a musician, arranger and bandleader in the first place. All I can say is that it must have been glorious for someone like Ms. Lansbury to be accompanied every night by a large theater orchestra of that caliber for every performance, 8 shows a week.
I remember when I first saw the musical [on Broadway the first time], I thought how uninspired it was compared to the movie with Rosalind Russell. Even without the singing, the opening scene with Miss Russell - making her entrance and coming down the stairs - out musicals a musical. Lansbury is an inspired actress, with one of the most incredible careers of any actor who's ever lived. Theater, film, television - and she's now starring in a play in Los Angeles. But I still prefer watching Rosalind Russell in the part. Poor Lucy was really out of her element. An inspiring lady in business and comedy television performance, but not really an actress - and certainly not a singer.
I just love them both,simple.
Two different actresses, two different styles. I love both of them.
Angela. Rosalind. Lucy.... Love them all! They each bring their fabulous style and sparkle! Comparison seems fruitless!!
The thing is, Angela was in many great and good movies, "Gaslight," "The Harvey Girls," and many others, including TV guest spots.
I have to admit. My introduction to Mame Dennis Burnside was the Lucy movie. I had the LP and loved it. Put it on cassette and remember listening to it on my Walkman and singing the songs while I cut the grass. My aunt made me aware of "Auntie Mame." I read the play. Read the novel. Devoured the movie.
Saw, "Lucy Mame" again after all this and, to this DAY, I can't imagine how I loved Lucy's version so much except that the material is so strong that, even in that glacial version, Mame shone through.
I completely agree. At age 10, the movie ignited my love for the story of Mame. It was years later that I realized what it could have been, but I still credit it for introducing me to the story. The movie delighted me at that age. That being said, I still don't see Angela as the perfect Mame. Roz is the only Auntie Mame!
Marc Allen Auntie Mame rocked so much better though,with Rosalind Russell
I was also a kid when I first saw the Lucy version. I was a huge Robert Preston film, and loved the dance numbers. Seeing it again as an adult I realized how bad Lucy was as a singer, and how difficult it looked for her to move. Her performance is sad.
... Same for me except I was well aware of the song Mame as it was a big hit and my mother loved to gather us around the piano for sing-a-longs. I knew it came from a Broadway musical but that was all I knew. The movie came out and bombed so it made it to TV in less then 2yrs (unusual for the time). I also went crazy over it but didn't record any of it. The library had the bc album so I listened to it often.
In 1981 I bought my first VCR because we didn't have cable out in the country so I would take it to friends/relatives houses who had cable and record what I could.
One night I recorded Auntie Mame and it changed everything.
There is only ONE Auntie Mame and that is Rosalind Russell.
Truly sad that Ms. Lansbury wasnt allowed to make a classic out of this musical on screen. Same thing with Julie Andrews and "My Fair Lady"
Criminal about Julie Andrews.
But on the bright side, we got Mary Poppins out of the deal
Lucy is miscast, and CANNOT SING. Disaster all around.
@@dominicsanimatedreviews5966 Audrey Hepburn was my favorite actress, but horribly miscast in My Fair Lady, and again as Lucy in Mame, could not sing. Marni Nixon had to dub her, and did not fit.
@@dominicsanimatedreviews5966 Julie came out way ahead by missing out on My Fair Lady. Mary Poppins was a much better film, as everyone was perfectly cast and could sing. Audrey nearly ruined My Fair Lady. And Julie won the Oscar, and Hepburn was not even nominated. One call that Hollywood got right.
RIP Angela, Lucille and Bea 🙏
The only thing I remember about this was how soft focus Lucille Ball appeared.
She positively 'glowed' in the role. :)
The soft focus was so pronounced critics laughed that the camera lens must have been coated in Vaseline for Lucy’s closeups.
@@johnsax1445 The one I heard was that Lucy was filmed through a brick. :)
Even Mae West, who was thinking of making another film questioned the focus. It was done to hide her age. Unfortunately it was too late for her to do the film.
It was like airbrushing. They wanted to hide her aging face
I love this story in every incarnation. Both Ball and Lansbury did a wonderful job, even if they were slightly different. If you wanna attack a miscasting, try tackling the awful blunder made in casting Barbra Streisand as Dolly Levi over Carol Channing!!! Dont get me wrong, nobody's a bigger fan of Streisand then me, but that movie was definitely a head scratcher in her amazing career!!!
Babs was just too young for Dolly Levi.
Bosom Buddies: 10:00 I didn't think this was so bad honestly. Lucy is listening, thinking and deciding on a counter punch as the song progresses....and Lucy DID make a career and broke out into comedy via RADIO with her PHYSICAL reactions--how many people could have done that???
The issue was the director.
And frankly, I’m glad for Lucy’s performance. I liked it as a child, and I still like it. It’s Lucy, for God’s sake!
Am I the only one who loves the movie with Lucille Ball in it?
Yes, except maybe her family, and perhaps not all of them.
Lucy shines in this movie something dull lansbury could never do on film . Lucy is beautiful sexy and touching . sorry but ibdont find any of those qualities in lansbury. Yes she can act but she has nothing on Lucy's fire
@@hugoaniro8166 Lucy was too old. They had to hide the wrinkles in her face. She couldn't sing. Unless sounding like a foghorn is singing. She couldn't dance anymore. She couldn't act. Angela Lansbury is not dull. She is a great actress with many awards for her acting, both on stage and on television. She can sing, dance, and act. But poor Lucy. Poor sad Lucy. When I saw the movie I was aghast at how terrible Lucy was in it. Lucy gave a one note performance all the way through it. And that one note was flat.
I actually like the movie. yes it is flawed but Robert Preston is amazing.
genehenrylindgren: Agreed. Robert Preston was great (wish he was in HELLO, DOLLY! instead of Matthau) and of course Beatrice Arthur. Jane Connell replaced Madeline Kahn who Lucille Ball had replaced. Sadly all the Broadway pros-and Preston had a good movie career-showed how poor Lucille Ball was. And nothing can change that. Being great as Lucy Ricardo gets no points here.
He and Lucy were perfect in the movie 🙂👍
Gives me goosebumps every.single.time...
I very much like the movie. But I have never seen the musical performed on stage for comparison.
@@johnpickford4222 ... That was criminal to replace Kahn (who actually studied vocal music and had a great range) and leave Lucy and her sub bass delivery.
Ever since I first saw the movie musical as a kid back in the 80s, I've always thought that Lucy was grossly miscast as Mame. Honestly, I much prefer the non-musical version performed by Rosalind Russell. However, being a fan of Angela Lansbury, I probably would've preferred the musical version had she been cast instead of Lucy. I would argue that, at least in this case, it has just as much to do with person as it does performance. Lucy's gravelly voice alone was a major tune-out for me- I kept watching in hopes that it would eventually improve, but it didn't. Angela Lansbury's voice, on the other hand, has a certain magic to it- like a warm hug that lets you know that everything will be alright. The best way I can explain it is that Lucy was doing a Dinner Theatre impersonation of Mame, whereas Rosalind/Angela WAS Mame.
I love mame since I was a kid at radio city in 1974
I don't see a problem with Lucy's reactions in Bosom Buddies. Angela and Bea were not performing the show, just one song. I doubt they considered themselves to be "in character." But I would definitely vote for Angela's Mame over Lucy's. The part needed a strong singer. Watching Lucy sing was just not pleasant
I think it should be added here that Lucille Ball pushed to be cast in the role even after people said she was too old for the character and did not really have a good enough singing voice.
Although I do agree that Ball was a total miscast, I can find things about the film I enjoy - like Bea Arthur. I have to confess that Bea is what has really kept me watching it all these years. Aside from Balls stagnant performance, I can't dismiss the brilliant performances of the other actors. Jane Connell is one of the finest character actresses I've ever seen, and she turns a hysterical performance as Agnes Gooch. Personally, I like the musical arrangments contained in the film. Though they don't stack up to the polish and musicianship heard on the original Broadway album, still, I can still procure a decent euphoric rise from the film version. It's hard for me to make such a harsh critique of Lucille Ball, because I have been a devoted fan for many years, but I have to call it where I see it.
This is so good.
I just watch Rosalind Russell in Auntie Mame and pretend there's music in it and consider that to be the movie musical of Mame.
Lansbury was simply amazing in Mame, I agree with you on every single point
Except how he pronounces Russell’s first name. LOL
Angela was so great as Mame in the film. She looked so young and vibrant!!
I love this video. Thank you!
In the comparison, it's not just Lucy's movements, the titled character required a strong singing voice. Angela sang her heart out, Lucy could barely mouth the lyrics.
Ok, well......herein lies the difference between performances!
Oddly, Mame, with Lucille Ball, will always be one of my favorite movies.
Nothing odd about it....
Just shows your eye for quality and real talent. The gift kind.
RevengeE I love Lucy as Mame and she can kick her legs higher than I’ll ever be able to!
Mine too I loved the show its one of my favourite
Nothing odd about that. It's a "feel good" movie. We can all use that sometimes.
Same
For the opening song comparison, I preferred the slower jazzy tempo of the Lucy version. For Bossom Buddy, I liked both versions. Each actress brought something different which I can appreciate.
I love the movie with Lucy. She did a wonderful job to me. Both ladies are wonderful entertainers . But Rosiland Russell is Auntie Mame !!
It's interesting neither one of these ladies became successful at playing leading ladies on the big screen although they were both gifted and became legends on the small screen or the stage when they became middle aged
The main reason why it was insane to cast Lucy as Mame was that she couldn't sing. Lucy was a fantastic comedienne, but she was not a singer. How could anyone possibly think that she could carry a musical? Angela was great in this role, she's also a better actress.
bewild ..you don't need to sing you need to be able to put a song across and to act it. Which is exactly what Lucille did ….in a very genuine compassionate way Yes it was more comedy than straight acting but then playing opposite Bea Arthur what did anyone expect ?
Halcyondaze121 but if your gonna sing at the very least don’t cast a chain smoker. Not that I dislike Lucille ball, I just think that even songs Meant more for personality driven characters should still be *sung* with some degree of competence.
And yet Lucille and Robert Preston pulled it off beautifully.
My favourite choice for that pick me up Movie.
@@Halcyondaze121
hear hear....
@@theghostinthemirror8158
Its not so much the tone of one's voice like Lucy's smoked out one. It's far nicer to hear a person who can hold a tune.
Lucy sany in tune.
I have heard trained singers with more ftont than a rat with a gold tooth was what my professional musician father would refer to them as.
They can not sing in tune cause they do not have an ear....
Singing in key is everything.
I'd rather hear an actor or actress put a song accross in tune than with a flat or sharp, finger nails on the blackboard, big loud voice..any day.
I will start off by defending Lucy in the film: the clip of "Making Merry" shows an incredible lack of direction - as well as knowledge of how to film a musical. I think Lucy was simply improvising which is why it comes off so lackluster - OR perhaps she fought the director's choices to the point that he just gave up on her and let her do her own "schtick" (Lucy was known for being dictatorial - she made Joan Crawford cry when Joan was a guest on her show). However, all I can say as far as "Mame" being a total BOMB is this: back in 1974, my friends and I were driving by the Cineramadome Theater where "Mame" was playing - and so the theater was completely decorated to look like a cloche (1920s hat). One of my friends had just seen the film - and as soon as he saw the theater he stuck his head out of the window and yelled "THAT MOVIE IS THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SH*T I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!!" - then he sat back in the car.
Despite the best of intentions, our host gets a number of factual points wrong. He is also under the impression that a star of a musical - stage OR screen - is single-handedly responsible for her performance. As it happens both Lansbury (stage) and
Ball (screen) had the same director (Gene Saks) and choreographer (Onna White).
Saks was a terrific director on stage while his screen work (mostly Neil Simon adaptations) was extremely earthbound filmed stage plays. And his TV movie of
BYE BYE BIRDIE makes MAME look like SINGIN' IN THE RAIN. In point of fact,
the movie of MAME was produced by Robert Fryer - who did the stage version. It
suffers terribly from poor artistic choices on many levels along with a seldom-stated
fact: By the 1970s MAME had become terribly dated. It's sentiment and satire was
something from the '20s and '30s that the novel and play managed to emulate when
the play was done in '56. And the '66 musical -extremely formalistic in writing and
production -was a kind of "last hurrah" for this kind of show. Yes, it was flashy and
Lansbury was terrific -but there's a GOOD reason Lansbury turned down the chance
to do a TV version during her MURDER, SHE WROTE run: she KNEW the show
was Passed It. It's been said Ball had her eye on playing Mame since Rosalind
Russell did it. Well, she got her chance -and reportedly helped finance the film
which had been siting on Warner Bros. shelf for at least 6-7 years. In point of
fact, NO ONE was clamoring to see MAME on the screen. The Rosalind Russell
movie was definitive.
***** Finally, someone who knows of which he speaks!
What Fenton said. And, if I may add one thing, film and stage are two different mediums and to compare them is like comparing a watercolor painting with oil. It just doesn't work.
The 1995 TV version of "Bye Bye Birdie" is so much better than the version with Dick Van Dyke and Ann Margaret, and that's a fact. The director of the earlier version was so obsessed with Ann Margaret he made it all about her. She used to sit on his lap. Gross.
I can agree with most of your observations and I'm glad someone else has also pointed out that the actor is directed as to how the part is played even if they are a star . They can get away with a certain amount but it is the director who has the final say if they have any gumption …It's true Lucille did finance a large percent of Mame and that is probably to her detriment as in doing so she probably had more of a say than perhaps was good for the character. One point I do take issue with is personally I don't think Rosalind Russell was definitive I think she overpowered the part and upstaged all the other actors ..She would have made a brilliant Norma Desmond as she had that almost manic way of acting .She was somewhat manic as Rose Hovic in Gypsy .. And really one cannot compare Aunty Mame the stage show with Mame the Musical they are as far apart as Pygmalion is to My Fair Lady or Romeo and Juliet to West Side Story or even The Taming of the Shrew to Kiss me Kate . They are based on the same play but that's where the similarity ends .
@@Halcyondaze121 Rosalind Russell received an Oscar nomination for Mame not Lucy. Russell won the Golden Globe for Mame not Lucy. Lucy's Mame can go stick it.
I think the Bosom Buddies comparison was particularly cutting because there’s a common denominator in both performances, Bea Arthur. In both versions you can identify three stages of Bea Arthur’s performance - insult-masking-as-compliment - professing friendship - padding on the back and exit. Each progresses into the next. They match Angela’s performance very well.
Angela Lansbury's freaking EYELASHES were on tempo. Amazing.
I think a revival of the musical should be staged for television like they do on PBS's Great Performances. There are so many current performers who would make such a production absolutely brilliant.
I love them all, but murder she wrote will never get too old to enjoy. Mrs. Lansbury is a phenomenon.
I have to watch reruns of it every night before I go to bed! For some reason, I didn't watch the show when it was actually on so all these reruns were new to me. I adore Angela!
God this is painful to watch! As a person who grew up with RR's Auntie Mame, this is a very special character to me. I was watching Johnny Carson when Ball announced that she had been cast. I thought "Huh?" "What???" I did not go to see the film and I'm glad I didn't as I'd have been scarred for life. Sorry that your Auntie Angela missed out on the roll; we missed out too.
Fantastic analysis and you show a strong command and understanding of acting as a craft. Bravo at handling a delicate and often nuanced, complicated topic about a show and film with so many opinions with grace and wisdom.
9:56, I've never seen the film version, but as soon as I saw Lucy's reaction to Bea's insults, I instantly thought "that's just what she'd do on 'I Love Lucy'," -- that kind of acting only really works when you have a close-up camera holding on her face for a studio-audience's laugh(track), it sticks out like a sore-thumb in a film. And then you verified it for me. xD
As a person who has worked in both film and on stage, the entirety of the differences often are due to the directors. In movies, it's the director's vision being filmed. On stage, it's often more a collaborative process (if the director lets you!). I know that Lucy had so many shots of her either with diffused lenses or gauze, that the entire film seems 'distant.' I also know that she had 'acted' so much for film, she knew what worked, but she needed a good director- I don't think she got it, because she was 'LUCY' if you know what I mean. While I can appreciate Lansbury, her voice is just too ugly for Mame, but was perfect for Mrs. Lovett in Sweeney. And then there's Roz Russell. Well, who can top that?!? Maybe the could remake the movie, but who is there now who could even BEGIN to come close to that iconic character, after these three women essayed it?
To me, it should Never been a musical! Rosalind Russell is THE AUNTIE MAME in my book!!
"Between forty and death!" A line that will haunt any actress who says it. I'm very impressed that someone as young as this youtuber has such a perceptive grasp of acting and the movie-making process and what constitutes diagnostically a good versus a bad musical theatrical performance. You should do something like, 'Lost Horizon' (the 1973 movie musical) and why it was such a flop.
Wow Jaymes...we must be the same age....so I'm thinking "who could not see that Ball/Mame was a flop???"
But...in all honesty, ...i always enjoyed LOST HORIZON....and many people thought it killed the film musical...it was notoriously despised...
I just bought it on LOST on dvd.
(PS...i also loved ...wait for it..
...."xanadu")
This is wonderful. I'd love to hear your take on all the Roses in various productions and films of Gypsy.
;)
Chris Moore Oh, Lord. Please don't do that. It would be longer than GONE WITH THE WIND.
Listen to Mr Mash's podcast "Jim and Tomic's Musical Theatre Happy Hour". Episode 23 is all about Gypsy and they do a Battle of the Roses.
My opinion on Gypsy.
The great Madame Roses.
1. Ethel Merman A legendary performance.
2. Angela Lansbury. A brilliant performance. I was overwhelmed by it.
3. Tyne Daly. Not a great singer, but her acting was superb. A terrific performance.
4. Bette Midler. I loved her performance. She was great.
5. Patti LuPone. She ruled the stage in the role of Madame Rose. Brilliant.
Other Madame Roses.
1. Bernadette Peters. I love Bernadette in almost everything that she has done. Her Annie Get Your Gun was brilliant. And she tried her best in Gypsy. For that I give her credit. But her Madame Rose didn't impress me. She was wrong for the role.
2. Rosalind Russell. No. Also wrong for the role. She played Madame Rose as a jolly old elf and her pathos was just anger. Didn't impress me.
Oh God, when only Rosalind Russell and Natalie Wood, Karl Malden and Paul Wallace will do...
Bette Midler is great but a whole other planet or animal so to speak?
Lucy too old? Hello Dolly with Streisand? ALSO WRONGGGGG!
Streisand didn't to do it. She brought her nest project forward and wanted to do ...wait for it YENTL. She was under contract for a handful of movies so...
neither could Mame
Streisand was not under contract for Hello Dolly. She did it of her own free will. Dolly was the #1 plum movie musical for a female at that time and Streisand was huge, It seemed like a great match. Barbra signed to do Dolly before the film of Funny Girl was even completed. Streisand's Dolly is not that bad. Yes, the whole film is overblown and huge but it is splashy and fun, if you don't mid some old fashioned fluff. Besides Streisand knocks the vocals out of the park. Her interpretations of the songs are worth the price of admission. Too bad the supporting players in the Dolly film were so bland and unremarkable. I give Barbra an A+ for effort even if she was miscast.
@@brucer6213 Whenever I hear "It Only Takes a Moment" I think that Michael Crawford and Marianne McAndrew did a beautiful job interpreting those poignant lyrics.
If she wasn't too old, why did she demand to be shot in soft focus?
I just found your wonderful Mame film. Musical Theatre Mash - what a treat. Thank you. I just saw a fabulous production of Mame in the UK at the Hope Mill Theatre in Manchester. It’s a very small but special venue. Worth visiting. Tracie Bennett stars as Mame and does a phenomenal job.
All other technicalities aside, I still love the Bosom Buddies scene with Ball and Arther, though I think Arther outshined ball in the scene. To this day, I think it's the best scene in the movie...
I saw the musical Mame in the70s by a All male cast, in San Francisco!! My younger Brother was in it and it was the best stage musical presentation I have seen, as of yet !! No one can touch the movie version ! Rosalind Russell was the BEST ! PERIOD !!
Uh uh, Lucy was great in it. I loved her performance.
Lucy was dreadful as Mame. I disliked her wooden performance and her poor singing.
I was ten when I saw the Roz Russell movie in 1958 and loved it, even though she needed to be about 15 years younger. Everyone needs an Auntie Mame in his or her life. By 1960, I was sneaking my mom's book late at night and reading it as a peek at the mysterious world of the grown ups. In about 1967-69, mom took me to see Angela Lansbury in the stage musical in Los Angeles, probably at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion. While I can say I'm glad I got to see Angela in person, this production left me completely cold, like watching a museum piece from another era. I've always thought the songs were weak. And no one will ever be Vera Charles except Coral Browne, period. So, I avoided the Lucille Ball version like the plague when it came out in 1974, not surprised that it bombed. I adored Lucy Ricardo and treasure my memories of her and Ricky; I admire the tough, working-class girls she played earlier on screen, but Mame she is not. So, imagine my surprise to finally watch this video and see so many admirers of Lucy's Mame among the commenters. These clips are the only glimpses I've ever seen of her performance. Now that mom has been gone a bit more than eight years, I treasure my first memories of Auntie Mame all the more. I still love the book and the first non-musical movie.
I saw Lucy in the movie and she was terrible in the role.
This is a terrific specific analysis. Bravo!
Lucille Ball would have made a wonderful Miss Gooch.
Yes, pregnant at 63 years of age would have added comedic value. Mel Brooks could have directed.
You're so adorable! I really respect how unbiased you are towards the things you review no matter how bad they are haha :).
Loved your last line "It's not who you are, it's what you do..." Extremely enlightening for me to hear; when, as an actor, it's so easy for my own personality (ego) to over shadow the power of the playwright's words or the character's life. Thank you!
Amazing video! Subscribed
I enjoyed Lucy in Mame. guess I was the only one.
Not the only one. Not by a long shot.
You must be straight
I loved Lucille Ball. However, the script watered down sharp lines from Mame on Broadway and Auntie Mame. Also, EVERY musical number had an "encore" which was misguided. Gene Sak's fault. Also, Lucy's vocals should have have been dubbed. Gypsy had dubbed vocals for Roz and they were great.
Thank you for this informative and entertaining video. Please do more of these comparisons! (i.e.: The Norma Desmonds, Sweeney Todds, Evitas, Margo Channings etc...)
In the earlier days of musical films, it was de rigueur that every element of the material be given top draw treatment, This is a musical and the most important element is the score. So, needless to say, Lucy's gravely baritone voice would never have been heard by the public, She would have been dubbed, of course. And that, I believe, would have made the difference between the film's failure and its success.
She was, in fact, dubbed in her previous movie musical appearances.
Lansbury was amazing as Mame and in everything she has done!!
I personally think that both did an excellent job. Angela had a wonderful singing voice which was meant for Broadway, but Lucy had the comedic affect that (almost) everyone loved.
I don't know how I missed this. Wonderful.
I saw Celeste Holm on the stage in 1968 in the Shubert Theater in Chicago as Mame. She was excellent. The production was excellent. When the movie came out with Lucy, I was incredibly disappointed.
Having seen the original cast on Broadway, admitting to be an I Love Lucy fanatic, I was horrified that Angela was not given the movie. The clips that you are showing of her don’t even give one billionth of 1% of the magic of her performance that every single critic and person who saw her perform it will tell you occurred. There aren’t words to describe the amazing vivacity she brought to the show, and those horrible clips that you have do a huge disservice. However, I was hoping that Lucy would be able to step up to the plate because I love the show so well, I love every song. Her singing is ghastly, horrifying in spots, somewhat acceptable if you’re trying to be generous in other spots. Lucy inherently does not have the class or breeding to carry the patrician sophistication of Mame Dennis. It’s just not in her. Lucy tries very hard and she is successful briefly in several scenes and has few very good moments. But the truth is she can’t sing, is too old physically and visually and really does not connect with the basic character so there’s no way for her to project it. That is not her fault. Jack Warner is to blame for this because he lacks the class to know that Lucy didn’t have the goods. By all accounts she tried very very hard, had just recovered from a nasty broken leg and was the hardest working person on the set. She just didn’t have it inside and everyone seem to know it except Jack Warner until I assume it was too late. You are incorrect when you say the movie was a big bomb because it was not. It was a smash at radio city music hall when it opened and did strong business across the country initially. There were some good reviews, but also many devastatingly terrible not just reviews but attacks on Lucy. There seem to be anger towards her and, for the millions who saw Angela Lansbury play the part, it’s completely understandable. It should be noted that a lot of people of later generations are nowhere near as negative about the film and many enjoyed it. I saw it in a theater several times, and the audience always had a good time at least in parts of it and it’s unfair to write it off as a total bomb because it was not it’s just simply not true. Compared to what it could have been, it’s a disaster of epic proportion‘s. There are flaws with the movie that have nothing to do with Lucy, but I think that because everyone involved was forced to work with Lucy when they didn’t want to may have stifled the creative process to make the film a sensation. Part of the problem is casting because if Mame can’t sing, then you have to pick a Patrick who can’t sing which renders they’re tender, loving showstopping duet a big fat blubbery mass not only did they pick a Patrick that can’t sing, but he’s not much of an actor either. Lansberry would’ve been able to make up for the terrible, lead performance of this little boy. I also believe Lansberry would not have had to endure this terrible kid because they would’ve found one with talent to match hers. It’s not fair to Lucy to hang the fact that the little boy in a key role is so totally ineffective and brings the movie down a giant notch. Originally brilliant, cutting-edged sensational comedienne/actressMadeline Kahn was cast in the pivotal role of Agnes Gooch, but Lucy had her fired and made them rehire the woman who did it on Broadway in the same manner that she did on stage. However, comedy had changed a great deal, and instead of providing a lot of laughs, she was annoying, dull, like a lead albatross that could never allow her scenes a chance to gasp for air including - an endless dirge That is supposed to provide laughs that just doesn’t work. Bea Arthur is far from her best, but she was probably having a hard time playing off of Lucy, who did not bring to the scenes what was necessary. Lucy had some very good moments in the film but they were too few and far between and brief. She also looked wonderful in a few of the scenes, but, what is to lead and, ancient in others. The effervescent vivacity that is the essence of Mame character is missing 100%…… This Mame Dennis needed a Geritol infusion 24 seven.
I love musicals, but this is one where I prefer the non-musical movie. Auntie Mame was a treat to watch when I was a kid. I need to watch it again.
Fun, fun. I am so glad that I happened upon this fab channel!
That was actually a brilliant analyses of the why’s & wherefore’s of a good vs a bad performance. Touché…🙏🎭
I have been hearing for years that Cher wants to do a repeat performance of MAME. God! I hope not!
David Garcia agreed please no
They said Lucy was old? Cher is about 3000 years older than Jesus ...no problem with that , but her plastic surgery looks terrifying and her voice sounds like she’s stuck under water
I like your channel. But for the record, I LOVED Lucille Ball as Mame! Mame was not an elegant dancer, so Ball having a little awkwardness was perfect for the role!
Most "All Around" Favorite "Auntie Mame" w/Russell. And then the Herman Music & Lyrics to "Mame" w/Lansbury. Privileged to have risen to Night Mgr @ The Bev Hills Hotel mid-80's & checked-in Jerry Herman. I do not fawn over famous folks. They're ordinary people with extraordinary lives... I once said to Olivia De Havilland, who to my surprise responded, "I like that!" I couldn't, though, help myself, and as I was checking him into the hotel, I looked in his eyes and... he must have seen my eyes were a bit misty... and told him how much joy his music has brought into my life, and that I loved him. That's all. He smiled and, sweetly, said thank you. Will make new video one day about my short, wonderful "happening" with Ball. She was not "the one" to play the Musical Film "Mame." Those lines, so witty, so powerful, yet fell flat. Love Lucy. Still worth watching, of course. Was raised in Japan. Other most-favorite is another Russell film... "A Majority of One." Fine video you created here, and enjoyed it very much. Love, from Reno. Stay well. Don't be an Aryan from Darien!
More! I want more Miscast!
I absolutely loved this analysis of the two Mames. I saw the movie with my Grandmother when it came out, I was 13. I loved the story and the music and costumes. It mirrored my relationship with my Grandmother. But even as a kid I said "Hey Lucy can't sing." My Grandmother had the Broadway album with Angela and I was expecting it to sound like that. Now as an adult, I like the movie for everything EXCEPT Lucy. I believe Angela was robbed, she should have played it. The rest of the cast is wonderful as are the sets and costumes. I watch it in memory of the wonderful times I had with my Grandmother who said "You're My Best Beau" was our song! I'm subscribing!
Lets make it very clear. Mame with Lucille Ball, is one of my favorite musicals of all time. PERIOD. I loved watching it on TV as a kid.
I like how you replay the moments you describe
Awesome job.