Well, I knew the general rule-of-thumb that Chu-ko-nu don't add much to the castle so you shouldn't garrison them, but hell, I didn't know they are THAT useless. It's quite fine though, because if there are rams incoming I unload the Chucks immediately, knowing they're ram slayers. Nice video, it's cool to know the game a little bit better.
From the time I was a little kid to now I have been playing age of empires. I DIDNT KNOW THAT BOMBARD CANNONS COULD FIRE MORE THAN 1 CANNON BALL!!! Thank you Zak for enlightening us with this wonderful piece of information :D
Crenellations are modifications on top of the wall, it is the protection wall for archers and advanced ones also have extended crenellations with arrowslits down, so that you can shoot down while being protected as well.
Thank you ZeroEmpires SO MUCH for this. I've been wondering about how Towers (both arrow AND cannon styles), as well as Castles (including with the Teuton tech), work in regards to garrisoned units and how many projectiles. Today I found your video and some charts on Reddit that answer all my questions. Thank you again, and please keep up the good work.
Thanks Zak, had been waiting for someone to do this for a while. Indeed this has been one of the more unknown areas of AOE, until now that is. It is really amazing how much complex yet balanced this game is considering its age(pun?). I remember the time when they nerfed the bombard towers to do pierce attack against rams instead of melee damage.
the double cannons are so cool! its this really cool thing where you are like: theoretically this should work aswell now. and then : OMG IT DOES love the consequence in design there
Really interesting stuff. I didn't expect that this topic is that that complex. :o Off topic (I don't if you noticed it under your last quick tips video since I posted it lately): I would really enjoy a video about how to micro onagers for the quick tips series. :)
With the tech that allows infantry to fire as well, how does that work with allied units in your towers vs your units in theirs? Also, with said technology, wouldn't it make sense to load the towers with trash units?
So essentially the game simply tries to increase the DPS of the castle by an amount equal to the DPS of the units garrisoned inside and then rounds the number of projectiles down.
+zhadez10 The reload speed of a castle is 2 and it IS factored in, else the units would add a lot less arrow. Zak seems to have overlooked this. For the building attack value in the formula, you do need to divide building attack by reload speed of the building or it will be wrong.
I called it too - this is why Janissaries are able to proportionally contribute more to the 120 attack that the slower-reloading Bombard Tower has, because if it were the same case as the Castle (if it indeed had a reload rate of 1), there would certainly be not enough additional attack to get an additional cannonball.
Nice video! But I have some questions. Does the same formula holds for towers and towncenters, but with a different building attack value? Is Yasama a fixed addition to the number of arrows? And does boiling oil works like : if attacked unit = ram, do damage + x?
+Roel Christoffers The formula is the same for TC's and Towers yes, like you say. I could make a part 2 to explain these questions as they raise some good points. I believe Yasama is fixed addition but I am unsure how boiling oil works.
+XyntXII Unique techs for FE. Yasama makes towers fire more arrows and is unique to the japanese. Boiling oil makes castles do more damage to rams and is unique to the persians.
Single jannisary is enough to add an arrow to unresearched castle. I think the building damage is also divided by its reload time. Castles have fire every 2 seconds so they have attack value of 5.5
TL;DW The amount of extra arrows is a function of the DPS of the ranged/piercing unit. The best unit to garrison is the villager since it does more damage than if it were outside the castle fighting. Other units do more damage if they are fighting outside the castle or tower.
What is the maximum amount of arrows a castle could shoot, if you'd set the attack value of the garrisoned units extremely high in the scenario editor?
With Crenelations do Castles and Towers take into account infantry attack when performing the equation, or do they use a single, default value for all infantry?
Welp, mind blown. I know a lot of the like quirks of AoK but I had no idea this was how towers and castles worked (though I did hear somewhere about BBTs being able to fire multiple cannonballs under certain circumstances). I always heard the the archer/arbalest line contributed really well and thought gunpowder units like the Conquistador didn't do so well. Clearly I need to spend more time garrisoning units in my castles. It's embarrassing to admit, but after all my years of playing I thought the ungarrisoned castle fired four arrows. I didn't realize it was 1+4 xD
so villagers and other infantry (for teutons) is 2,5so i took (2,5 x 20) / 11 = 4,545... so 4 extra arrows thenbut you used 9 axmen (2,5 x 9) / 11 = 2,045... so 2 extra arrows then... but when i look at castle in video it fires 8 arrows so 4 extra arrows 2 more then what i counted to...? someone explain where i went wrong plz! o_O
it would nice if the first outpost delete will also add thumb ring that lower the reaload speed , also show the diffarnce between faster fire archers then non fire archers with the same other upgrades :) thanks for the video!
i need to say that i had a bias against putting archers in castles and towers because i thought they would do less damage, but it is actually really good. only thing one loses is the attack boni, so i guess plummed archers and mangudai should sometimes stay out.
Couldn't you reduce the Attack Damage of the bombard tower itself to theoretically get far more cannon shots? How does the formula hold against lowering the Bombard Tower's damage to 1 or 0.
Just FYI - Damage / Attack Speed = Damage Per Second. The Castle has a Reload Time of 2, so we're putting twice the weight into the Castle's DPS with the DPS / Castle Damage. So basically, every 1 DPS of a unit is worth half as much as a Castle's DPS. So if one unit had 44 DPS, it would add 4 missiles, even though the Castle's DPS is only 5.5 and if you were to use the Castle's DPS that would actually be 8 Arrows. Thus, even if a unit has twice the DPS of the Castle, at 11 DPS, it only adds 1 Arrow.
I would argue that it doesn't depend on damage. Its attack time relative to the one of the castle. Any unit will do same amount of damage as the castle but increase the number of projectiles. AKA if the unit has same attack speed as a castle and you add 5 units Castle will have 10 arrows. If the unit attack speed is slower you will have: no of units (5) reduced for amount of attack speed of the unit compared to castle(lets say 20% slower)= 9 arrows 5 arrows from the castle and 4 arrows from units(5-20% of 5 is 5-1=4) if faster: 5 arrows from the castle and 6 arrows from units(5+20% of 5 is 5+1=6) 11 arrows When units get upgraded attack speed, they contribute more so they get more arrows from same amount of units. Units that don't get upgraded lose even more speed relative to upgraded castle so they contribute even less because attack speed difference grows. Thus reduced attack aka number of arrows. I don't think damage has anything to do with it its all about the difference between Castle attack speed and Units attack speed.
Zak, I think you've made a mistake here - You also need to divide the building attack value by it's reload speed. For the elite janissary example, a single elite janissary DOES add an extra arrow to a castle, because the castle reload speed is 2. (22/3.45)/(11/2) = 1.16, so a bit more than one extra missile. Without that, you also couldn't get bombard towers to fire more than one cannonball - It has 120 attack, yet even 10 elite janissaries only have an attack value around 64, but the slow speed of the bombard tower makes it possible On a side note, the game seems to round down even if the units should be just enough to add an extra arrow. For example, Chu Ko Nus have an attack value of 1 (3 atk/3 reload speed). Yet if you garrison 11 chu ko nus, it only gives 1 extra arrow instead of the 11 * (3/3) / (11/2) = 11 * 1/11 *2 = 2 it's supposed to do. You get the extra arrow if you add one extra chu ko nu.
This sounds right because 2,5/ 11=0,227 meaning 9 throwing axeman could not add 4 arrows like in the video. They shuold only add two 0,227x9=2,043 but if 11 is devided with two they add 4 arrows like in the video
This simply equalizes DPS of units and castle so the additional damage is even. For whatever reason the developers didn't have the units fire from the base and instead just buff the castle damage technically.
Just another small question.. I was told that, while it would fire additional arrows (or cannon balls in the last example) and it would keep the units more protected, the castle/tower with units garrisoned inside will actually do less damage than if the units were outside and both them and the castle would fire a the same target. I guess this is true?
+daddyleon Isn't this depending on the target? A few stronger arrows do more damage against high pierce defense units. On the other hand they will loose damage by overkilling their targets.
Can You change the max amount of units Garrisond in a Bombard Tower? And if you can, does it then add up to a higher max of Cannonballs or does it stay the same?
Amazing video, but I just wanted to add more to this one. I remember playing Mongol Campaign (Vs Persians and Russians) where I found garrisoning the Mongol Unique unit inside the Castle actually makes the castle do massive amount of additional damage to the Rams (that are sent by Russian player) Although this could be fixed in later updates, and I'm not sure. So the general question is does the units garrisoned adds attack bonus to the castle (or tower for that matter).
I kinda answered my questions by myself with your video but I think they are not quite covered yet. The first is whether the accuracy of the unit contributes in any way with the formula. I would say no because of the behaviour of mangudai vs. the genuese crossbowmen. But would be interesting. The second is why the amount of fired arrows goes up with upgrades when the damage of the castle increases as well. The answer that is not quite covered yet is that due to the attack speed part the attack increase of the units is stronger than that of the castle and therefore the overall arrows fired increases. The third one is REALLY interesting (I think) and I never really had the nerve to try it out myself. How high is the damage increase of garrisoned units really? I always had the feeling that the reload time of a castle starts when the last arrow of a volley is shot. The castle is not shooting them all at once (like the bombard tower) but one after another. I always wondered if it is really worth it to put units in the castle at some point.
Honestly I'm not sure why people are so surprised by this functionality or that it took so long to come up with this equation. Essentially all that's happening here is calculating the damage per second of the garrisoned units and comparing it against the damage per second of the castle to determine the number of missiles. The only reason this looks complicated on paper is because "Attack Value" is deceptively disguised as what would normally be Damage Per Second in other games, because AoE2 doesn't tie the attack speed to a real life unit of measurement such as the second.
i do not think, that it is a nerf to the damage of the castle to get fletching and co, even if you garrison villagers, infantry or gunpowder. less arrows with more damage (and the same total amount) will most of the time do more damage due to the way armor works. ofc you lose more damage to overkill though. but i think that is the smaller effect. also you get range and buff the 5 original arrows.
What is that icon in the bottom right at 8:45 of the military units. I mean in the box with patrol, stand ground, garrison, etc. I've never seen that icon.
+Matthew McNeany Oh....! Thanks :3 So they just stand there then? And depending on the stand-ground/guard/etc. they do what they do if they didn't encounter anyone - right?
2 Questions. 1, which unit type would result in most extra arrows? Mangudai? It would have been cool if you would have revealed top 3 strongest units in garrison, and mostly Normal units as unique units is to hard to live by. What of arbalests? I have noticed that units in buildings would result in some extra arrows but I've never ever thought that what type of units would matter. 2. Could you make each guide in one playlist/group? I must scroll so much when I navigate your channel.
The most extra arrows is 20, many units can achieve this if loaded into the castle, it all depends on your current upgrades. Arbalest wouldnt do too badly at all! There should be a playlist with all tutorial kind of videos, try search for "Zero To Hero ZeroEmpires" in CZcams search
+ZeroEmpires - Age of Empires 2 Thanks for your reply man, I really appreciate it and your videos. I'm a bit tired today so I'll just watch this video again to get a hold on it. :) Keep up with the good work! :)
There should be a mod that damages the castle for fired shots when Throwing Axemen are garrisoned. Whilst desperately trying to throw their axes out of the window, they utterly fail, yielding all the axes land in walls, columns and chandeliers.
+AngryBear360 The inca bonus is definitely better than supremacy, if only because its cheaper, and useful more early on. Supremacy is better overall, but only available at the end of the game.
Helps quite a bit against paladins since those are one of the few units that require two shots to take down. They have to keep doing more moving than fighting to avoid instant death, so it's pretty beneficial at keeping them away and getting a few easy kills.
It would have been better, more realistic, and much more intuitive, if each archer unit would just attack directly with its own attack and attack speed (and range) from the castle. But I guess this old mechanic won't be changed now. The Chu Ko Nu thing seems like a bug.
hey Zero. I know this is an old post... my question is: did the developers consciously create such formulae (which would imply that you are merely identifying what has been hidden from you) or do such things unknowingly (to the developers, that is) result from the combinations of various other algorithms/formulae (in which case your statistical analysis is actually more like a discovery)?
It’s hard to know for sure, but I assume that they would have coded some kind of algorithm into the game for calculating the arrows fired from a building. However, since the source code is inaccessible we can only try to figure these out formula by testing and building our own conclusions
The bombard tower firing an extra cannonball blowed my mind, is useless as fuck, but WOW... I'm... WOOOW
it can 1 hit paladins instead of 2 hit. but over 2 per tower is useless, unless youre fighting elephants
Imagine if the Castle with Throwing Axeman and Mamelukes fired Arrows, Axes and Scimitars at the same time. GG EVERYTHING. I resign. TOO OP.
+A. Anderson and a single treb ruined all the dreams :(
+A. Anderson and some janissaries, and scorpions, and mangonels, and bombard cannons, TOO STRONK
What if you converted them with Teutons and garrisoned them?
It Certainly works perfectly and I have tried it before, infact it's so powerful idea that the Turk player was forced to invest on Heresy soon after.
imagine teutonic knight combined with huskarls... Where is your God now?
14:10 Fell backwards out of my chair
Well, I knew the general rule-of-thumb that Chu-ko-nu don't add much to the castle so you shouldn't garrison them, but hell, I didn't know they are THAT useless. It's quite fine though, because if there are rams incoming I unload the Chucks immediately, knowing they're ram slayers.
Nice video, it's cool to know the game a little bit better.
From the time I was a little kid to now I have been playing age of empires. I DIDNT KNOW THAT BOMBARD CANNONS COULD FIRE MORE THAN 1 CANNON BALL!!! Thank you Zak for enlightening us with this wonderful piece of information :D
only if you are teutons you can have that bonus
Chu-Ko-Nu so ripped off by this :(
+Caleb's CZcams Account I know right!
Crenellations are modifications on top of the wall, it is the protection wall for archers and advanced ones also have extended crenellations with arrowslits down, so that you can shoot down while being protected as well.
Thank you ZeroEmpires SO MUCH for this. I've been wondering about how Towers (both arrow AND cannon styles), as well as Castles (including with the Teuton tech), work in regards to garrisoned units and how many projectiles.
Today I found your video and some charts on Reddit that answer all my questions. Thank you again, and please keep up the good work.
The Elite Janisarry in the Teuton Bombard Tower is sweet... Now if those towers fired in the manner of Portuguese, with their cannon ballistics... 😀
Thanks Zak, had been waiting for someone to do this for a while. Indeed this has been one of the more unknown areas of AOE, until now that is. It is really amazing how much complex yet balanced this game is considering its age(pun?). I remember the time when they nerfed the bombard towers to do pierce attack against rams instead of melee damage.
I think an additional animation is required in the game when Crenellations is researched - castle's firing swords. The Forgotten team could do it.
This was really really interesting and well explained. Thanks Zero !
I think even the pro's like the viper can learn something from this video!
+Le' Derp well actually that is the definition of a professional.
@@davo9407
Is the 'profession' part in the word professional not a dead giveaway?
Super cool video! And those burst fire bombard towers are just awesome!
what about a list ranking the best units to garrison?
Excellent insight!! I now know what to do because I'm mostly a defensive player and always wondered how to increase my castle and tower attack
the double cannons are so cool!
its this really cool thing where you are like: theoretically this should work aswell now.
and then : OMG IT DOES
love the consequence in design there
"...surprisingly complex for its age"? I'd rather say modern games are dumbed down, back in the days games were complex and challenging...
No, it *is* complex for its age. Age of Empires came out less than half a decade after Doom; programming advanced PC games was still in its infancy.
This has been a mystery to me since the year 2000. Wow. Thanks bro.
Really nice explanation ! thanks!
I am glad I subbed your channel. I never knew this about the game, and I have been playing it since it came out (and I was a little boy).
Really interesting stuff. I didn't expect that this topic is that that complex. :o
Off topic (I don't if you noticed it under your last quick tips video since I posted it lately): I would really enjoy a video about how to micro onagers for the quick tips series. :)
With the tech that allows infantry to fire as well, how does that work with allied units in your towers vs your units in theirs? Also, with said technology, wouldn't it make sense to load the towers with trash units?
So essentially the game simply tries to increase the DPS of the castle by an amount equal to the DPS of the units garrisoned inside and then rounds the number of projectiles down.
+dragatus Except the reload speed of the castle doesn't seem to be calculated anywhere... unless it's actually exactly 1
+zhadez10 The reload speed of a castle is 2 and it IS factored in, else the units would add a lot less arrow. Zak seems to have overlooked this. For the building attack value in the formula, you do need to divide building attack by reload speed of the building or it will be wrong.
I called it too - this is why Janissaries are able to proportionally contribute more to the 120 attack that the slower-reloading Bombard Tower has, because if it were the same case as the Castle (if it indeed had a reload rate of 1), there would certainly be not enough additional attack to get an additional cannonball.
Always nice to learn something new
Fantastic an very precise video!
omg this is so thoroughly illustrated
Nice video! But I have some questions. Does the same formula holds for towers and towncenters, but with a different building attack value? Is Yasama a fixed addition to the number of arrows? And does boiling oil works like : if attacked unit = ram, do damage + x?
+Roel Christoffers that is probably something to ask #Spiritofthelaw :D
+Roel Christoffers The formula is the same for TC's and Towers yes, like you say. I could make a part 2 to explain these questions as they raise some good points. I believe Yasama is fixed addition but I am unsure how boiling oil works.
+Roel Christoffers never heard of these techs.
+XyntXII Unique techs for FE. Yasama makes towers fire more arrows and is unique to the japanese. Boiling oil makes castles do more damage to rams and is unique to the persians.
ah... could have guessed that it was from forgotten empires. well, who cares about that then? but thank you for the context makes more sense now.
Single jannisary is enough to add an arrow to unresearched castle. I think the building damage is also divided by its reload time. Castles have fire every 2 seconds so they have attack value of 5.5
This did not only helped understand castle arrow #s but helped understand Fortress number of lasers from SW: GB
TL;DW The amount of extra arrows is a function of the DPS of the ranged/piercing unit. The best unit to garrison is the villager since it does more damage than if it were outside the castle fighting. Other units do more damage if they are fighting outside the castle or tower.
What is the maximum amount of arrows a castle could shoot, if you'd set the attack value of the garrisoned units extremely high in the scenario editor?
Hello! What would be the most efficcient common unit to put inside a castle, then?
Thanks!
Oh the logic in this game!
you are the best! thank you for this video!
With Crenelations do Castles and Towers take into account infantry attack when performing the equation, or do they use a single, default value for all infantry?
Welp, mind blown. I know a lot of the like quirks of AoK but I had no idea this was how towers and castles worked (though I did hear somewhere about BBTs being able to fire multiple cannonballs under certain circumstances). I always heard the the archer/arbalest line contributed really well and thought gunpowder units like the Conquistador didn't do so well. Clearly I need to spend more time garrisoning units in my castles.
It's embarrassing to admit, but after all my years of playing I thought the ungarrisoned castle fired four arrows. I didn't realize it was 1+4 xD
I love how garrison arrows on the castle all fire out of the same window. How do they manage to all fire out of the window at the same time?
where's that music a t the end from? I could swear I heard it before.
6:45 There seems to be an error here. The Building Attack should be divided by the Building Reload Speed, shouldn't it? I could be wrong.
but there is only 17 conquistadors in the castle but 20 mangudais wouldnt that affect outcome?
When you say "building attack", is that the raw attack value, or the DPS (attack / reload rate?
I'm not getting the bombard tower after upgrading everything why?! Please tell me
so villagers and other infantry (for teutons) is 2,5so i took (2,5 x 20) / 11 = 4,545... so 4 extra arrows thenbut you used 9 axmen (2,5 x 9) / 11 = 2,045... so 2 extra arrows then... but when i look at castle in video it fires 8 arrows so 4 extra arrows 2 more then what i counted to...? someone explain where i went wrong plz! o_O
it would nice if the first outpost delete will also add thumb ring that lower the reaload speed , also show the diffarnce between faster fire archers then non fire archers with the same other upgrades :) thanks for the video!
Can you explain how monks work in Aoe2? And how the "new" (FE) spanish inquisition tech is influenzing them?
You can even garrison trebuchets inside the castle. If you set rally for the castle creating the trebuchet, they'll be garrisoned.
so... whats up with the GXbow? why they can help fire 4?
i need to say that i had a bias against putting archers in castles and towers because i thought they would do less damage, but it is actually really good. only thing one loses is the attack boni, so i guess plummed archers and mangudai should sometimes stay out.
How does the targeting work for the extra cannon balls? With and without ballistics?
What about the japanese in the forgottten? They fire more arrows right?
Is there a trigger where you can Garrison more units
Couldn't you reduce the Attack Damage of the bombard tower itself to theoretically get far more cannon shots? How does the formula hold against lowering the Bombard Tower's damage to 1 or 0.
What about Elite Longbowmen
Just FYI - Damage / Attack Speed = Damage Per Second. The Castle has a Reload Time of 2, so we're putting twice the weight into the Castle's DPS with the DPS / Castle Damage.
So basically, every 1 DPS of a unit is worth half as much as a Castle's DPS. So if one unit had 44 DPS, it would add 4 missiles, even though the Castle's DPS is only 5.5 and if you were to use the Castle's DPS that would actually be 8 Arrows. Thus, even if a unit has twice the DPS of the Castle, at 11 DPS, it only adds 1 Arrow.
I would argue that it doesn't depend on damage. Its attack time relative to the one of the castle.
Any unit will do same amount of damage as the castle but increase the number of projectiles.
AKA if the unit has same attack speed as a castle and you add 5 units Castle will have 10 arrows.
If the unit attack speed is slower you will have: no of units (5) reduced for amount of attack speed of the unit compared to castle(lets say 20% slower)= 9 arrows
5 arrows from the castle and 4 arrows from units(5-20% of 5 is 5-1=4)
if faster:
5 arrows from the castle and 6 arrows from units(5+20% of 5 is 5+1=6)
11 arrows
When units get upgraded attack speed, they contribute more so they get more arrows from same amount of units.
Units that don't get upgraded lose even more speed relative to upgraded castle so they contribute even less because attack speed difference grows. Thus reduced attack aka number of arrows.
I don't think damage has anything to do with it its all about the difference between Castle attack speed and Units attack speed.
You didn't mention the Thumb Ring upgrade.
With this the archer-line and unique archer-units should be even more effective.
Zak, I think you've made a mistake here - You also need to divide the building attack value by it's reload speed.
For the elite janissary example, a single elite janissary DOES add an extra arrow to a castle, because the castle reload speed is 2.
(22/3.45)/(11/2) = 1.16, so a bit more than one extra missile.
Without that, you also couldn't get bombard towers to fire more than one cannonball - It has 120 attack, yet even 10 elite janissaries only have an attack value around 64, but the slow speed of the bombard tower makes it possible
On a side note, the game seems to round down even if the units should be just enough to add an extra arrow. For example, Chu Ko Nus have an attack value of 1 (3 atk/3 reload speed). Yet if you garrison 11 chu ko nus, it only gives 1 extra arrow instead of the 11 * (3/3) / (11/2) = 11 * 1/11 *2 = 2 it's supposed to do. You get the extra arrow if you add one extra chu ko nu.
This sounds right because 2,5/ 11=0,227 meaning 9 throwing axeman could not add 4 arrows like in the video. They shuold only add two 0,227x9=2,043 but if 11 is devided with two they add 4 arrows like in the video
This simply equalizes DPS of units and castle so the additional damage is even. For whatever reason the developers didn't have the units fire from the base and instead just buff the castle damage technically.
Just another small question.. I was told that, while it would fire additional arrows (or cannon balls in the last example) and it would keep the units more protected, the castle/tower with units garrisoned inside will actually do less damage than if the units were outside and both them and the castle would fire a the same target.
I guess this is true?
+daddyleon Isn't this depending on the target? A few stronger arrows do more damage against high pierce defense units. On the other hand they will loose damage by overkilling their targets.
+FernestHall Yeah, over kill certainly is a thing to take in mind. I just have no idea :P
So give janissaries + 99999999 damage and how many cannon balls will they shoot?
Wow I knew Teutons could fire three cannonballs out of bombard towers, but never imagined they could fire four out!!!
Very interesting ! Could you make something like that about conversions ?
What's the cap for #arrows from a castle/tower?
Can You change the max amount of units Garrisond in a Bombard Tower? And if you can, does it then add up to a higher max of Cannonballs or does it stay the same?
+Player4595 yes you can change it, no, it will not... the maximun number of cannonballs is 4 regardless of the units inside...
Thought I saw someone fire four cannon balls in a game. Not sure if I'm mistaken and if it was 3.
Amazing video, but I just wanted to add more to this one.
I remember playing Mongol Campaign (Vs Persians and Russians) where I found garrisoning the Mongol Unique unit inside the Castle actually makes the castle do massive amount of additional damage to the Rams (that are sent by Russian player) Although this could be fixed in later updates, and I'm not sure.
So the general question is does the units garrisoned adds attack bonus to the castle (or tower for that matter).
Does supremacy change the damage output of garrisoned villagers for the Spanish?
+Fiyaaah 6:33 "villagers have a fixed attack value..." is what the man said so i guess it wont change...
Spirit of the Law just did a video on this and he said supremacy and Inca villagers don't fire more arrows when garrisoned.
.
Why no skirmishers? I was most interested in the effect of skirmishers right now
Thanks! :)
I kinda answered my questions by myself with your video but I think they are not quite covered yet.
The first is whether the accuracy of the unit contributes in any way with the formula. I would say no because of the behaviour of mangudai vs. the genuese crossbowmen. But would be interesting.
The second is why the amount of fired arrows goes up with upgrades when the damage of the castle increases as well. The answer that is not quite covered yet is that due to the attack speed part the attack increase of the units is stronger than that of the castle and therefore the overall arrows fired increases.
The third one is REALLY interesting (I think) and I never really had the nerve to try it out myself. How high is the damage increase of garrisoned units really? I always had the feeling that the reload time of a castle starts when the last arrow of a volley is shot. The castle is not shooting them all at once (like the bombard tower) but one after another. I always wondered if it is really worth it to put units in the castle at some point.
Zak, how does thumbring effect mangudai in a castle?
thumbring affects the rate of fire and then you can figure that in to the formula he gave.
What about Arambai and Ethiopian archers? Spanish HC?
the people behind AoE 2 and Heroes of might and magic 3 were WAYYYYYY ahead of their own time, like holy sh*t
What is the maximum amount of arrows from a castle, if you raise the unit damage?
+rsjohan838 The maximum possible is 20 :)
Honestly I'm not sure why people are so surprised by this functionality or that it took so long to come up with this equation. Essentially all that's happening here is calculating the damage per second of the garrisoned units and comparing it against the damage per second of the castle to determine the number of missiles. The only reason this looks complicated on paper is because "Attack Value" is deceptively disguised as what would normally be Damage Per Second in other games, because AoE2 doesn't tie the attack speed to a real life unit of measurement such as the second.
i do not think, that it is a nerf to the damage of the castle to get fletching and co, even if you garrison villagers, infantry or gunpowder.
less arrows with more damage (and the same total amount) will most of the time do more damage due to the way armor works. ofc you lose more damage to overkill though. but i think that is the smaller effect. also you get range and buff the 5 original arrows.
Math teacher Zach!
What about the Britons or the Mayans ? Or like normal crossbow-units ? I kind of missed that :(
+Johnny 3 Tears You know formula. Grab your calculator and you have your own answer.
"If we combine all of our guns we can fire an extra cannon ball."
What is that icon in the bottom right at 8:45 of the military units. I mean in the box with patrol, stand ground, garrison, etc. I've never seen that icon.
+daddyleon It's an option from Forgotten Empires. You can set a flagg anywhere and the unit will go there and attack every enemy unit on its path.
+Corni Check How is that different from patrol, in the top left of that little menu?
+daddyleon they don't walk back to where they started.
+Matthew McNeany Oh....! Thanks :3
So they just stand there then? And depending on the stand-ground/guard/etc. they do what they do if they didn't encounter anyone - right?
Yes thats it basically :)
@14:11 i see bombard cannon soul leaving bombard tower and entering wall. Woaaah.. posession
You’re great
2 Questions.
1, which unit type would result in most extra arrows? Mangudai? It would have been cool if you would have revealed top 3 strongest units in garrison, and mostly Normal units as unique units is to hard to live by. What of arbalests?
I have noticed that units in buildings would result in some extra arrows but I've never ever thought that what type of units would matter.
2. Could you make each guide in one playlist/group? I must scroll so much when I navigate your channel.
The most extra arrows is 20, many units can achieve this if loaded into the castle, it all depends on your current upgrades. Arbalest wouldnt do too badly at all!
There should be a playlist with all tutorial kind of videos, try search for "Zero To Hero ZeroEmpires" in CZcams search
+ZeroEmpires - Age of Empires 2
Thanks for your reply man, I really appreciate it and your videos. I'm a bit tired today so I'll just watch this video again to get a hold on it. :) Keep up with the good work! :)
+Oskar Karlsson The number of extra arrows/unit is shown right at the beginning of the video
There should be a mod that damages the castle for fired shots when Throwing Axemen are garrisoned. Whilst desperately trying to throw their axes out of the window, they utterly fail, yielding all the axes land in walls, columns and chandeliers.
Three bombard cannons coming out of the bombard tower lol. That's hilarious how they fire more cannonballs.
what about elite Mangudai in a Teutonic bombard?
inside castle teutonic can raise the number of arrows and the castle range are great combo
Please do a video on who has the best/strongest villagers, (spanish/incas)
+AngryBear360 The inca bonus is definitely better than supremacy, if only because its cheaper, and useful more early on. Supremacy is better overall, but only available at the end of the game.
The extra cannonball trick is cool, but one cannonball will kill almost any unit, so it doesn't have much practicality.
Helps quite a bit against paladins since those are one of the few units that require two shots to take down. They have to keep doing more moving than fighting to avoid instant death, so it's pretty beneficial at keeping them away and getting a few easy kills.
@@eliteteutonicknight1 don't forget the war elephants and battle elephants from de rise of rajas expansions
wait. for hand cannoneers you only put in 17, not 20
to make it comparable with conqs, which get 20 arrows with 17 units with 1 damage less than hc
So, speaking of Scenario Editor Madness, mind showing us how to do it ourselves and have them _actually work_?
About gunpowder units, you say reduced but what you mean is it stays the same.
+THERMONUKLEAR KAOS KOMMAND The number of arrows are reduces when the castle attack value goes up.
+ZeroEmpires - Age of Empires 2 Did you mention that in the video?
+THERMONUKLEAR KAOS KOMMAND Yeah, at the part with the scroll on the screen :D
Cool sorry
Zak, have you ever seen any pro games with teuton bombard towers fully garrisoned with janissaries?
+João Guilherme Viana Never seen it in reality, sadly :(
if you can never achieve 4 cannon balls in a real unmodded game, why would they set the upper limit to 4 cannon balls?
+barduk4 I believe is an oversight, no one actually checked and said "fuck it, 4 is a good number"
It would have been better, more realistic, and much more intuitive, if each archer unit would just attack directly with its own attack and attack speed (and range) from the castle. But I guess this old mechanic won't be changed now. The Chu Ko Nu thing seems like a bug.
Bombard Shotgun Tower.
hey Zero.
I know this is an old post...
my question is: did the developers consciously create such formulae (which would imply that you are merely identifying what has been hidden from you) or do such things unknowingly (to the developers, that is) result from the combinations of various other algorithms/formulae (in which case your statistical analysis is actually more like a discovery)?
It’s hard to know for sure, but I assume that they would have coded some kind of algorithm into the game for calculating the arrows fired from a building. However, since the source code is inaccessible we can only try to figure these out formula by testing and building our own conclusions
ZeroEmpires :)
Which civ has best towers?
With the new expansions, likely the Japanese!
ZeroEmpires thx!
you had 17 con units only in 3rd castle!!
where to find the sorce code for aoe where is the original developer of aoe
lets ask him ll at once
i have a question: Turks canon towers with 5 janissaries: any extra canonball?
No, is a teutón bonus tower
Reload Time =/= Reload Speed