re: sharpening: Back in the late 60's, I was in the Air Force stationed on an Army base and no one was sure about what we could do so we all grew mustaches, wore aviator shades and a Buck 110. We sat around for hours trying to bring these Bucks up to hair popping sharpness. An old (maybe in his 30's) lifer said to just keep sharpening/stropping at an angle that feels natural and eventually you would bring the edge to your 'natural' angle and then, without thought, a few swipes on the stone or leather would bring it back to "your angle". HYOH - hone your own hone.
Good advice. If you gave three people the same knife to sharpen I can guarantee all three would come back with different angles & edges regardless. If you're obsessive or just like accuracy, most fixed angle sharpening systems like the Worksharp take the guess work out and make sharpening much easier.
I'm going to throw a curveball..best Steel in the end of world scenario would be LC200N. Nearly impervious to corrosion, high toughness (more than most realize), can be sharpened easily, but still has great edge retention.
Hmm, yeaah, it makes sense. Compared to 14C28N, it's only a minor step down in toughness for a bigger jump in corrosion resistance. If one is looking at off-the-shelf knives, you''re more likely to encounter 14C28N in the wild, but if one could get their coastal TEOTWAKI knife custom made before it hits the fan, LC200N would be a great option.
@@argosytheband Magnacut has better edge retention than LC200N, but the latter has MC beat for toughness and corrosion resistance. (!) Vanax apparently has a slight edge over MC in edge retention and corrosion resistance. Granted, I wouldn't turn my nose up at any of 'em
LOL! Thomas beat me to it! “The Shaman’s right there!”. You had me for a minute when you said “smudging”. I was like, “Is there a Spyderco called the Smudge? Because that looks like a Sage”. Then it hit me! Well done, sir! Thanks for the great video, as always!
A lot of my knives are in 14C28N or NITRO-V. These are mostly folders. My larger fixed-blade knives are primarily 1095, SK5, or 5160, all of which are forms of carbon steel. If the apocalypse happens, I will have a device to sharpen my knives, I carry it in my pocket every day.
Same answer for me. Fixed blade 1095 and 5160. Folding knifes 14C28N, Nitro V. But if tomorrow will be Apocalypse , I will bring my Cold steel 4 Max because of the Triad lock
As far as sharpening instructions it's easy. Form a burr on both sides with roughest stone and then switch to a finer grit making the burr smaller and smaller until you reach your final grit then strop to remove any burr remaining. What you use doesn't matter as long as you get an edge your happy with.
The "apocalypse steel" question and the 420HC steel question actually go together really nicely. People love to hate on 420HC but 420HC actually has traits very similar to the AEB-L/14C28N family in that it is tough, easily sharpenable, and stainless. 420HC is also, crucially, inexpensive, meaning you might be able to afford multiple knives in it that you can stash in multiple places or give to multiple people etc., vs. affording only one knife in say, Magnacut (which is very good, don't get me wrong, just more expensive). For a knife you're actually going to use a lot, you're going to be resharpening it a fair amount no matter the steel, and 420HC makes that quite a bit easier than say S90V or M390, especially if you're resharpening it in the field with improvised tools like rocks, glass, etc. This is also why a lot of kitchen knives are made in what a lot of people consider to be fairly simple steels: you're using them a ton and sharpening them a ton on often rudimentary sharpening systems.
Around 2006 buck was still sending instructions... It was/is the thickness of the blade up off the stone and they did the 25 circles and switch. I was 18 at the time.. Daddy already had me pretty decent . But with that amd JUST DO IT!!! BUST A TIP off and reshape it. Old hickory and mod it.. You HAVE TO be able to grind the steel and aware of where and why you re grinding it at which direction how thick following angles not dropping off tip etc...
I tend to think that 14C28N is the best apocalypse steel. Tough, stainless and reasonably hard, it's also an ingot steel so it can be repurposed with traditional smithing methods. I do have a question though for DCA. Can you reforge a particle steel with traditional smithing? Let's say you want to beat your 3V Trailmaster into a plowshare. If you try what would the result be?
Not great for edge stability as Carbon V on Ka-Bars or as Ballbearing steel is. Not the worst choice, but not very good or great either. The steels I mentioned, are the only that you won't have any chips or rolls,broken tips etc, they are the most bomb proof steels and that's what you want in the Apocalypse (which has already begun)...
@greekveteran2715 no such thing as a "bomb proof steel" Kabars break all the time and under relatively little abuse. Chips and rolls happen to every knife. Best to learn how to handle them. Every tool has its breaking point. All of them. That's why the saying is "2 is one, one is none."
@@nothim7321 I think I mentioned beckers and BK 7 .Also What experience just from CZcams videos is zero experience, since it's all nonsence and marketing. You won't hurt a becker, no mater how hard you try, which is mroe than enough for any use. Try getting some experience in real life,you'll be surprised how true is everything I said.. PS I never had a chip or a roll even with factory edges on any of the knives/steels I mentioned. I guess you know that it's a matter of edge geometry/shape and heat treatment that matters the most on edge stability and edge retention, right? Steel is the last factor.
@greekveteran2715 Roger. I'm a keyboard warrior. My experience isn't in Iraq and Afghanistan. Deserts, Mountains, Forests, Swamps, Snows over my head. Never seen 'em. Never broken nothin'. Not e-tools, never twisted the heads off of bolts, not axes, not knives. You're oh so right. Yeah, I'm the one who needs to get off CZcams.
Regarding the finger choil , I absolutely love it on my Tops Operator 7, the balance when you want to choke up on the knife is so helpful for more bushcraft stuff or even skining . Had the knife for several years now and it's one of my favorite "all around " blades!
I’d love to see you make a list of higher end knives that run on washers. I work in a really dusty and dirty environment and I’m always on the hunt for them. Thanks guys!
Hey, DCA, Thomas, and Seth. I just started to scout carry fixed blades. What are some good knives from $60 to $125 that have scout carry ready sheathes?
It's called a wheel stop. The answer to apocalypse steel is simply magnacut. Tough, great edge retention, and I can strop it back to life with my belt. I also wouldn't be doing dumb shit with it like batoning because I'm always prepared. I also always have a workshop field sharpener in my pack, but also always have my folder in my pocket and both a kukri, silky, and tomahawk in my truck to choose from. Nessmuk Trio or some variation is the best way to go. All that said, AEB-L is a sold, reliable choice.
420 is still good. The world hasn’t changed, only the steels. I have the Buck 692 (the rubber handled version of the 192) and it still cuts open deer and hogs like it did in the 90’s. Nothing’s changed.
Im glad this choil issue is been talked. It's crazy for me that people think it's better to use the blade to hold the knife instead of the handle. If the sharpen edge is close to the end of the handle you can get your fine work the same way as with the choil (better in fact because you are holding an actual handle). I will always chose more sharpened edge over one more finger to hold the handle. If you have giant hands or is doing heavy work, just get a bigger knife.
I haven't, but I have handled similar size knives and still think a folding knife should have the biggest edge possible and the blade is a worse way to hold it. I can also have a good grip with only three fingers. If someone is having to hold the knife so tightly maybe they need a bigger knife, which is rarely the case in edc uses.@@Herbert_Eder
And if you have a large finger guard? In that case a finger choil can get you closer to the edge. But only for one grip, they just exacerbate the problem with other grips (eg. chest lever grip). There are good reasons to have a finger choil, and good reasons not to. The whole debate is a classic circular internet squabble because there are so many factors involved that there is no definitive answer.
I would say a large finger guard is also a bad design. And yes, there's this other problem with the choil that you mentioned which is that it takes you very far from the edge if you don't use it.
@@victoroe454 There is no right or wrong, it just comes down to personal preference in the end, and everything in the design is a trade-off, but with folding knives there is quite a limitation in the relation of handle and blade length. With the finger choil you can have a handle that is longer than the length of the closed knife. The alternative would be a larger (longer) knife, but if for whatever reason you want a smaller knife, i think that is a good trade-off.
Hey DCA, Seth, Thomas. A regular UK viewer here, with a question about fixed blades! I regularly go for long treks taking a knife for everything from basic bushcraft to bushwacking and cutting up my lunch. I’ve cut myself too times with slip joints and I’d really like a fixed blade. I’d like something that can do the tasks above with aplomb, with a comfortable handle and a blade that is 3” or so in size. I don’t want it to be too offensive or aggressive looking and a decent discrete sheath would be preferred. Budget is up to $400 / £350. Really liking the Buck Alpha Scout Elite and Viper Handy, but wondered if you had any other recommendations. PS: I’m very familiar with and take personal accountability for my compliance with UK knife law.
An offshoot of the knife steel question would be my definition of the word "APOCALYPSE", which, to me means the end of civilization as we know it regarding; rule of law, value of money, ease of finding food, medical, hygiene, tools, clothing, shelter, etc. in which, once I established my shelter location, I would transport as many guns, knives, tools, etc so that I could use these things to barter for the items that I really needed for survival.
I've driven a Vanguard through a refrigerator a dozen times. Like the other thick 420HC knives from Buck, it didn't care and strops easily between sharpenings.
420 or 420HC amongst the other obvious choices (14c, 1095, nitro-v, etc). It's just so dang tough and difficult to corrode. And I have actually sharpened it on a rock lol. There's great reasons Buck and Gerber went with it and still uses it.
Nice AEB-L showcase. Got a JT Wright in AEB-L, and it is such a great slicer.... I live in the desert, so I can't say much about rust... It is by far my sliciest and it stays sharp.
THE best choices are: Custom: Ballbearing steel. Semi custom: Vanadis 4 extra (TRC Mille Cuori) or CPM 3V (Delta heat treatment). Mass produced: Carbon-V (Ka-Bar Becker BK7 etc).
Regarding edge retention vs steel composition, at 74, I've been a knife nerd for many decades & have very good sharpening skills, so in an apocalypse, I would not only have multiple blades at my disposal but many sharpening tools also, so high grade, high hardness, high corrosion resistance would be my choice. I also believe, "A tool for every purpose & a purpose for every tool", would be the theme, so no excessive abuse. In the flavor of "preparedness" my favorite cliché is "Never bring a knife to a gunfight"!!!
Haven't started watching the video yet but I've always been a big supporter of EESE'S 1095 blades they are near indestructible and it's a good steal takes an edge well not the best edge retention in the world but you don't need the best edge retention in the world you need something that's going to hold up and last a long time that holds an edge decently and can take an edge fairly easily without a ton of skill EESE has definitely got my money if you can't afford an EESE a Mora really isn't a bad knife or bad steels for the money definitely trust my life to Mora
I would choose a softer steel for apocalypse. Most of its work would be processing wood so lots of chopping and batoning. So a knife with the least chance of snapping from abuse. My big knife is the Condor Heavy Duty kukri, because I saw Alan Kay win the first series of Alone with it. 1075 carbon steel. It would need constant care and attention, which is another bonus, because I'm sure some people would think this a chore, it actually gives you something to do when, what else is there to do all day in an apocalypse? Self defense and zombie killing is a breeze for the kukri. Tool of choice for the British Gurkhas. The first half of the spine is flat and sharp, the second half is smooth and rounded, perfect to use as a draw knife and goes easier on your baton. Many other details to mention, I just think it's a perfect knife for the end of days. Although I would upgrade to the K-TAC version for the G10 handle and steel pommel.
I wouldn’t use anything but a Wicked Edge sharpener because you will get an incredibly sharp edge at the best angle for the knife and how you use it-especially for kitchen knives. Also you sharpen both sides of the edge simultaneously. The bevel of the edge matters.
for a larger chopper I'd go with the Nata tool by Silky for a tough-as-nails affordably priced chopper. I missed out on the larger (210-240 mm) versions when Daitool had it in stock for only...72$ I think (and free shipping).
Love the clever "sage" advice for ghosthunting. And Thomas' Shaman comment. I immediately thought of the Salt, as a salt circle supposedly keeps a spirit out or traps it inside. Spyderco has a subtle ghost theme?😂
My generic apocalypse blade steel, not knowing what form the apocalypse is taking, MagnaCut. Easy enough to sharpen given I already have the equipment. Very stainless so I'm not losing edge to corrosion and don't need oil, tough enough to take something of a beating. Good enough wear resistance that I'm not constantly sharpening it. Without having to buy a knife for this, I would pick the Demko Freereign that's always in my bag which goes almost everywhere with me already.
The perfect steel for the apocalypse is absolutely CPM-Cruwear. Tough, high edge retention, easy to maintain the edge, and will take a wicked patina from all that zombie blood. Also, if you go with the right manufacturer, its even called Z-Wear. Zombie Apocalypse approved.
Hey DCA, lately I’ve been a big fan of the Wharnified reverse tantoku shaped blades that Thomas is so fond of pointing out. I just got a Kershaw craze, which is an incredibly useful little knife, and I’ve also been liking the Wusthof Asian utility knife in the kitchen; it’s actually become my most used kitchen knife. Are there any general outdoor knives in the 3 to 4 to 5 inch range with this blade shape? Bonus points if it comes in 14 C 28N or S35vn and has a sheath with a clip (because I often wear shorts without a belt). Thanks, and keep up the great work!
Well for large blades 1095. Which is my Ontario 18 inch. But I have a cold steel barong which I love the design of. Wouldn't hurt to have steel upgrade like atleast 1075 ( wink wink nudge nudge cold steel). Belt knives I like a four inch blade so a decent stainless will do (mora garberg). Axes 1060 because that's what my favorite axes come in (council tools sport utility line) my take only one knife would be the bk9 for sure
I have a rather large collection of varying types of steel blades, ranging from 1055 to cmp-154, even several hand forged "damascus" blades, and id carry 3 in an apocalyptic situation, first my cold steel khan(AUS-8), my cold steel recon(sk-5 model) and my heretic knives nephilam(cmp-154), an alternative for the khan would be my crkt m21-02g, but those are my preferences
I think using the Shaman and the Bodacious is an unfair example for finger choils. The reason I prefer finger choils on a lot of knives is because I feel much more in control of the blade the closer I can get my hand to the cutting edge, so if you compare designs like the Spyderco Delica and the Byrd Meadowlark (ignoring material and quality differences) then I will always prefer the choil version instead of the one that "wastes" that same space for no benefit. The Bodacious design is already really optimized for minimizing that distance, but that is not true of most knives (especially ones not made by Spyderco, they have always prioritized ergonomics and utility more than just about anyone). It's often worse on flipper knives because if you don't add a finger choil in front of the flipper tab then you are almost guaranteed to be left with at least a half inch between the grip and the edge because the flipper tab itself is in the way. With other opener types it's at least possible to minimize the gap, but many companies choose to have an oversized sharpening choil (but one still undersized for a finger) or ricasso or something and leave a big no mans land between the grip and edge anyway. Another good example would be the Steel Will Cutjack vs Modus where the alternative to the finger choil is just a large sharpening choil. I would much rather have the ergonomics and versatility of the finger choil than an extra 1/4 inch of cutting edge.
On the KnifeCenter exclusive Gemini I can put my forefinger onto the flipper tab and I've got the edge right at my hand to cut closer to my hand. I LOVE button lock flippers!!!! I'd love a KnifeCenter exclusive Gemini with everything the same, but longer handle, even if it wasted a chance for a longer blade
Yay! Thank you very much for your answer! Getting a question featured here feels like getting voted President! I never considered the balance point of a larger fixed blade, so that totally makes sense.
i would take a TOPS'fied version of Cold Steel Natchez Bowie - make it full tang, 1095 or 3v, add the sawback on top and that would be a good start for an Apocalypse knife.
Hello DCA and team, I have a tough one for you. I recently moved to the beach and I am having issues with the knives I typically carry. Every few days I have to take apart my knives to clean them because no matter what I do, fine pieces of sand find their way into the inner workings of the knife and make my fidgeting horribly unsatisfying. I need your help finding a very corrosion-resistant, sand-proof/easy-to-clean, left-hand-friendly, knife. I am a huge fan of classy and fidgety folders but I am open to anything you feel fits my needs. No particular budget but nothing too crazy. Thank you and keep up the good work.
The discussion around finger choils, as with many other knife features, all comes down to: 1) what you want the knife to do & 2) how you intent to use it. eg. finger choils are very useful when doing close up tip work but are next to useless for chopping. As for the perennial steel choice discussion - as DCA said it doesn't matter up to a point. eg. if you want to maintain a blade in the field, REX121 would be a bad choice. Better off focusing on the knife design and blade grind. Sharp blades all.
My apocalypse knife choice would be the condor ulu in 14C28N. The 1075 is ok, but I would prefer a stainless version. The handle shape and construction lends it to many situations such as lashing it to a stick and boom, you now have a hatchet.
i recall reading or seeing a reason for the choil in hunting/tactical as a way to pull the knife back out quickly from in front of the guard with out cutting oneself
Hello DCA, Thomas & Seth. My favorite style of pocket clip is wire and I find it a little frustrating to find knives that have them. Can that be added as a search filter on the website please? Thank you all!
Great video. I have the WorkSharp Professional Precision Adjust and absolutely love it. Super easy to use and it delivers insanely scary ultra sharp results every time.
You pulled a lot of spydercos to explaining what fingerchoils are good for, but didn't pull any spyderco slipjoint, where the fingerchoil (when in in use) hinders the blade from closing.
V-Sharp is a great cheap way to keep your blades sharp without having to know anything about sharpening, you just have to learn which of the sharpening plates to use for dull knives and which to use for finishing knives. It's really a very easy way to keep great edges on all your knives.
Hey DCA, love your work, research, and commentary. I've been watching for awhile and feel confident picking out a bushcraft or tactical knife. My situation is I have a new to me son-in-law, a good kid. He's into hunting and fishing all the way to skinning and preparing deer and turkey. The aftermath (deer heads, hides, and turkey feathers) he uses for tanning and display art. My question is, what would be a good knife or set of knives to accomplish the tasks of dressing, skinning, and manipulating the deer and turkey materials. As usual price is not an issue for quality but he is a NEW son-in-law. Might pick middle of the road to upgrade later, if he proves time tested. 😊
Regarding the "finger choil" discussion. I purchased a knife awhile back with a finger choil to play with and feel it. Now, every time I see a knife the designer felt it necessary to include a finger choil I can't help but get the gut feeling that it might be a poorly designed knife where they slapped a patch on the design by including a finger choil as a quick solution to compensate for the design error.
For knife steels: humans for hundreds of years got by with bronze, iron, and very basic steels. You could go back in time and give them something like 14c28n and blow their minds. Almost any steel that can get sharpened somewhat easily would be sufficient. Sure, magnacut would be best, but thats assuming you have some diamond plates that can sharpen it.
One of the main selling points of Magnacut is that it sharpens up much easier than other super steels so a diamond stone (which would be necessary for say Rex 121 or CPM S110V) isn't necessary for Magnacut.
Hey DCA. love your vids... I like the Microtech MSI the blade shape mostly... not cost or the size.... what would be a smaller more budget alternative? A small edc fixie or folder ...
Dca, over the years, my knife skills have brought to the point where smaller blades are better. However, my hands ride the cusp between large and Xl gloves. Could you recommend a fixed blade knife with a 3.5-4.5 in blade but has enough handle for larger hands? If possible, something that is equally at home on the homestead as it is bushcraft camp.
Please do an episode on knives with finger choils that aren't Spyderco or Esee. I love finger choils on knives and find myself carrying them more than anything else, and I'd like a finger choil knife in every lock type, blade shape, and any other diffentiating knife types.
Hello DCA. I am relatively new into folding knives and recently discovered Rockstead. Their knives (and price) blew my mind! It made me wonder whether such knives are meant to be used at all or are only to admire. Is it possible to EDC such knives and be able to maintain their incredible polish and sharpness? If yes, how would you recommend doing it? Love your KniFAQ series! Thanks a lot.
Maybe they take cues from what led to Bodacious and visit the idea on Manix 2. Another mystery, why some Manix two you can disassemble and add aftermarket extras and some you can't?
FOBOS knives includes good sharpening information with their knives. They give general angle guidelines to achieve higher slicing capabilities, or have a less "slicey" but tougher/damage resistant edge.
Hey DCA, I have a Buck 192 that I have used for years to field dress game. I know and like the shape of the blade and the thickness of the grip but I could be easily convinced to try something more modern as a replacement. Cost does matter as knives get left behind occasionally, so around a hundred bucks…?
With experience it's a feeling. I proved to a friend that I could sharpen a knife better with a soft Arkansas Washita stone better than he could with his Lansky system
Spyderco is one of the few that does a finger choil right. It's not part of the cutting area. Done the typical way, choils are great for rope, fabric, etc. to slide into and get stuck in.
Definitely going with MagnaCut for my apocalypse steel. It pretty much covers all the bases. Great edge retention with a good heat treat, still tough enough to handle hard use, and damn near impossible to rust in most environments. I find it surprisingly easy to sharpen as well considering. It strops back beautifully too. I'm usually not big on the "popular" steels, but Larrin hit that one out of the park.
I enjoy a modern so called super steel as mutch as the next men, and they are great, but we have to remember, over the ages, people managed to survive and prosper with softer materials, like copper, bronze and iron. So, in my opinion, a good set of skills and knowledge will certainly come in handy, regardless of your knife steel.
Gotta say, the finger choil is what ultimately pushed me away from spyderco. I just don't see the need at all in 90% of knives, and I think that there are designs that would be far far better without the choil.
Hey DCA and Thomas, Love the show. Question I love the Spyderco Endura but I don't love the saber height grinds on my model, is there any advantage to saber grinds or saber height grinds for that matter over a full flat grind? My thoughts are possibly on the endura a toigher edge but I don't know.
Question: What would be a good sheath system for fixed blade knives while one is horseback riding? I would probably think the best one is a Kydex Dangler, but depending on the knife (especially if i am carrying a big fixed blade) this might not be enough. Thoughts?
re: sharpening: Back in the late 60's, I was in the Air Force stationed on an Army base and no one was sure about what we could do so we all grew mustaches, wore aviator shades and a Buck 110. We sat around for hours trying to bring these Bucks up to hair popping sharpness. An old (maybe in his 30's) lifer said to just keep sharpening/stropping at an angle that feels natural and eventually you would bring the edge to your 'natural' angle and then, without thought, a few swipes on the stone or leather would bring it back to "your angle". HYOH - hone your own hone.
Good advice. If you gave three people the same knife to sharpen I can guarantee all three would come back with different angles & edges regardless. If you're obsessive or just like accuracy, most fixed angle sharpening systems like the Worksharp take the guess work out and make sharpening much easier.
I love the Buck 110. To this day it's still great, classic!
Someone has to smart off and say it: “The knife steel you have on you when the apocalypse starts.”
i farted.
😂
bottle caps
@@Cy1onRaidernatural fire starter😂
Dumbest title ever lmao
I'm going to throw a curveball..best Steel in the end of world scenario would be LC200N. Nearly impervious to corrosion, high toughness (more than most realize), can be sharpened easily, but still has great edge retention.
I can dig it -DCA
Hmm, yeaah, it makes sense. Compared to 14C28N, it's only a minor step down in toughness for a bigger jump in corrosion resistance. If one is looking at off-the-shelf knives, you''re more likely to encounter 14C28N in the wild, but if one could get their coastal TEOTWAKI knife custom made before it hits the fan, LC200N would be a great option.
I was gonna say LC200N, Vanax, or Magnacut. The top 3 of anti-corrosion. Magnacut will also give you extra toughness.
@@argosytheband Magnacut has better edge retention than LC200N, but the latter has MC beat for toughness and corrosion resistance. (!) Vanax apparently has a slight edge over MC in edge retention and corrosion resistance. Granted, I wouldn't turn my nose up at any of 'em
@@CSGraves You're right, I forgot how high the toughness rating is on LC200N. Great steel.
LOL! Thomas beat me to it! “The Shaman’s right there!”. You had me for a minute when you said “smudging”. I was like, “Is there a Spyderco called the Smudge? Because that looks like a Sage”. Then it hit me! Well done, sir! Thanks for the great video, as always!
14C28N
AEB-L
Magnacut
S35VN
These are my choices. Stainless. Good toughness. Reasonably resharpenable
Can you sharpen magna ut with regular stones?
@@brunorojas3992
I think you can strop it back for a long time and keep a useable edge that way.
I love, love those four alloys!!!! Nice. Comment
I'd add Nitro V, but a solid list.
@@matthewmarek1467nitro v is basically 14c28n
A lot of my knives are in 14C28N or NITRO-V. These are mostly folders. My larger fixed-blade knives are primarily 1095, SK5, or 5160, all of which are forms of carbon steel. If the apocalypse happens, I will have a device to sharpen my knives, I carry it in my pocket every day.
If you’re carrying carbon steel you should have some EZ Smith Wicked Wax to treat / protect the steel.
Same answer for me. Fixed blade 1095 and 5160.
Folding knifes 14C28N, Nitro V. But if tomorrow will be Apocalypse , I will bring my Cold steel 4 Max because of the Triad lock
As far as sharpening instructions it's easy. Form a burr on both sides with roughest stone and then switch to a finer grit making the burr smaller and smaller until you reach your final grit then strop to remove any burr remaining. What you use doesn't matter as long as you get an edge your happy with.
The "apocalypse steel" question and the 420HC steel question actually go together really nicely. People love to hate on 420HC but 420HC actually has traits very similar to the AEB-L/14C28N family in that it is tough, easily sharpenable, and stainless. 420HC is also, crucially, inexpensive, meaning you might be able to afford multiple knives in it that you can stash in multiple places or give to multiple people etc., vs. affording only one knife in say, Magnacut (which is very good, don't get me wrong, just more expensive). For a knife you're actually going to use a lot, you're going to be resharpening it a fair amount no matter the steel, and 420HC makes that quite a bit easier than say S90V or M390, especially if you're resharpening it in the field with improvised tools like rocks, glass, etc. This is also why a lot of kitchen knives are made in what a lot of people consider to be fairly simple steels: you're using them a ton and sharpening them a ton on often rudimentary sharpening systems.
That's why Gerber and Buck still use it.
😊9⁰9 provides 9😮😅😮😊😮😊in 😮😅😮😅😢😊6😮a 9😅0😮8😮
😮😮😅😅😅😊😊😊😊 4:28 😮😊😊😅😊😊😊😅😅😅😊😅😊😮😊😊 5:03 😊😊😊😅😊😅 4:37 😊😅
😊
@@Andow44 Go away, ya weirdo.
Ha! The 'burning Sage' joke is great DCA ❤😂
I can't afford to burn a Sage. Would burning a Dragonfly or Manbug suffice?
@@realbroggo maybe best to drop further to the Byrd or Tenacious tier ;)
@realbroggo Just buy the new Rex121 version in "Burnt Orange" and you're good to go.
Those doodoo clones where it advertises a business on the blade
That choil question is fantastic and thought provoking.
I think quality questions like this should be saved and presented to designers at blade show.
I have a 5" in 3V, a 9" in 80crv, and another 5" in 1095. I have endless folders also. Each pack out has its purpose.
I've got blades in 154CM, m390, 8670, 1075-1095, 14c28n, d2 and a few others I love them all
I love my Spyderco Lil Native! Knife center exclusive in Cruwear! Great EDC
Around 2006 buck was still sending instructions...
It was/is the thickness of the blade up off the stone and they did the 25 circles and switch.
I was 18 at the time.. Daddy already had me pretty decent .
But with that amd JUST DO IT!!!
BUST A TIP off and reshape it.
Old hickory and mod it..
You HAVE TO be able to grind the steel and aware of where and why you re grinding it at which direction how thick following angles not dropping off tip etc...
I tend to think that 14C28N is the best apocalypse steel. Tough, stainless and reasonably hard, it's also an ingot steel so it can be repurposed with traditional smithing methods. I do have a question though for DCA. Can you reforge a particle steel with traditional smithing? Let's say you want to beat your 3V Trailmaster into a plowshare. If you try what would the result be?
No difference, particle metal refers to its original formulation, not its forging technique, they aren't cast... heat it and beat it still works.
Not great for edge stability as Carbon V on Ka-Bars or as Ballbearing steel is. Not the worst choice, but not very good or great either. The steels I mentioned, are the only that you won't have any chips or rolls,broken tips etc, they are the most bomb proof steels and that's what you want in the Apocalypse (which has already begun)...
@greekveteran2715 no such thing as a "bomb proof steel" Kabars break all the time and under relatively little abuse. Chips and rolls happen to every knife. Best to learn how to handle them. Every tool has its breaking point. All of them. That's why the saying is "2 is one, one is none."
@@nothim7321 I think I mentioned beckers and BK 7 .Also What experience just from CZcams videos is zero experience, since it's all nonsence and marketing. You won't hurt a becker, no mater how hard you try, which is mroe than enough for any use. Try getting some experience in real life,you'll be surprised how true is everything I said.. PS I never had a chip or a roll even with factory edges on any of the knives/steels I mentioned. I guess you know that it's a matter of edge geometry/shape and heat treatment that matters the most on edge stability and edge retention, right? Steel is the last factor.
@greekveteran2715 Roger. I'm a keyboard warrior. My experience isn't in Iraq and Afghanistan. Deserts, Mountains, Forests, Swamps, Snows over my head. Never seen 'em. Never broken nothin'. Not e-tools, never twisted the heads off of bolts, not axes, not knives. You're oh so right. Yeah, I'm the one who needs to get off CZcams.
Regarding the finger choil , I absolutely love it on my Tops Operator 7, the balance when you want to choke up on the knife is so helpful for more bushcraft stuff or even skining . Had the knife for several years now and it's one of my favorite "all around " blades!
Stropping on cardboard works in a pinch too! Surprising results
I’d love to see you make a list of higher end knives that run on washers. I work in a really dusty and dirty environment and I’m always on the hunt for them. Thanks guys!
A2 is my ideal balance of edge retention, toughness and ease of sharpening. Corrosion resistance isn’t an issue with ‘users’.
Thomas is the best. Few words but always profound.
Hey, DCA, Thomas, and Seth. I just started to scout carry fixed blades. What are some good knives from $60 to $125 that have scout carry ready sheathes?
Off Grid knives 6 inch chef/camp knife...in 14c28n, 6 inch blade...love this knife
It's called a wheel stop. The answer to apocalypse steel is simply magnacut. Tough, great edge retention, and I can strop it back to life with my belt. I also wouldn't be doing dumb shit with it like batoning because I'm always prepared. I also always have a workshop field sharpener in my pack, but also always have my folder in my pocket and both a kukri, silky, and tomahawk in my truck to choose from. Nessmuk Trio or some variation is the best way to go. All that said, AEB-L is a sold, reliable choice.
420 is still good. The world hasn’t changed, only the steels.
I have the Buck 692 (the rubber handled version of the 192) and it still cuts open deer and hogs like it did in the 90’s. Nothing’s changed.
Really saved the best for last, the most serious question was hilarious, and the blooper reel at the end. Chefs kiss
Im glad this choil issue is been talked. It's crazy for me that people think it's better to use the blade to hold the knife instead of the handle. If the sharpen edge is close to the end of the handle you can get your fine work the same way as with the choil (better in fact because you are holding an actual handle). I will always chose more sharpened edge over one more finger to hold the handle. If you have giant hands or is doing heavy work, just get a bigger knife.
In general, maybe. But did you ever handle a Mini Banter? Or a Native 5? Both are great, but would not work for me without the choil.
I haven't, but I have handled similar size knives and still think a folding knife should have the biggest edge possible and the blade is a worse way to hold it. I can also have a good grip with only three fingers. If someone is having to hold the knife so tightly maybe they need a bigger knife, which is rarely the case in edc uses.@@Herbert_Eder
And if you have a large finger guard? In that case a finger choil can get you closer to the edge. But only for one grip, they just exacerbate the problem with other grips (eg. chest lever grip). There are good reasons to have a finger choil, and good reasons not to.
The whole debate is a classic circular internet squabble because there are so many factors involved that there is no definitive answer.
I would say a large finger guard is also a bad design. And yes, there's this other problem with the choil that you mentioned which is that it takes you very far from the edge if you don't use it.
@@victoroe454 There is no right or wrong, it just comes down to personal preference in the end, and everything in the design is a trade-off, but with folding knives there is quite a limitation in the relation of handle and blade length. With the finger choil you can have a handle that is longer than the length of the closed knife. The alternative would be a larger (longer) knife, but if for whatever reason you want a smaller knife, i think that is a good trade-off.
Hey DCA, Seth, Thomas. A regular UK viewer here, with a question about fixed blades! I regularly go for long treks taking a knife for everything from basic bushcraft to bushwacking and cutting up my lunch. I’ve cut myself too times with slip joints and I’d really like a fixed blade. I’d like something that can do the tasks above with aplomb, with a comfortable handle and a blade that is 3” or so in size. I don’t want it to be too offensive or aggressive looking and a decent discrete sheath would be preferred. Budget is up to $400 / £350. Really liking the Buck Alpha Scout Elite and Viper Handy, but wondered if you had any other recommendations. PS: I’m very familiar with and take personal accountability for my compliance with UK knife law.
An offshoot of the knife steel question would be my definition of the word "APOCALYPSE", which, to me means the end of civilization as we know it regarding; rule of law, value of money, ease of finding food, medical, hygiene, tools, clothing, shelter, etc. in which, once I established my shelter location, I would transport as many guns, knives, tools, etc so that I could use these things to barter for the items that I really needed for survival.
CPM M4
CPM 3V
S35VN
1075 carbon steel
These are my choices, for apocalypse steels, not sure what knives I’d like to see them on, so many choices 😂
I've driven a Vanguard through a refrigerator a dozen times. Like the other thick 420HC knives from Buck, it didn't care and strops easily between sharpenings.
420 or 420HC amongst the other obvious choices (14c, 1095, nitro-v, etc). It's just so dang tough and difficult to corrode. And I have actually sharpened it on a rock lol. There's great reasons Buck and Gerber went with it and still uses it.
agree, buck, gerber, chevy
I agree, 420HC is underrated. Super tough with good corrosion resistance and holds a better working edge than 1095, 52100 or 80CrV2.
Cold steel bushman with a walking staff tapered on one end to fit the knife hollow handle maybe useful
That Buck 192 feels SO GREAT in the hand.
Nice AEB-L showcase. Got a JT Wright in AEB-L, and it is such a great slicer.... I live in the desert, so I can't say much about rust... It is by far my sliciest and it stays sharp.
THE best choices are: Custom: Ballbearing steel. Semi custom: Vanadis 4 extra (TRC Mille Cuori) or CPM 3V (Delta heat treatment). Mass produced: Carbon-V (Ka-Bar Becker BK7 etc).
Regarding edge retention vs steel composition, at 74, I've been a knife nerd for many decades & have very good sharpening skills, so in an apocalypse, I would not only have multiple blades at my disposal but many sharpening tools also, so high grade, high hardness, high corrosion resistance would be my choice. I also believe, "A tool for every purpose & a purpose for every tool", would be the theme, so no excessive abuse. In the flavor of "preparedness" my favorite cliché is "Never bring a knife to a gunfight"!!!
Haven't started watching the video yet but I've always been a big supporter of EESE'S 1095 blades they are near indestructible and it's a good steal takes an edge well not the best edge retention in the world but you don't need the best edge retention in the world you need something that's going to hold up and last a long time that holds an edge decently and can take an edge fairly easily without a ton of skill EESE has definitely got my money if you can't afford an EESE a Mora really isn't a bad knife or bad steels for the money definitely trust my life to Mora
I would choose a softer steel for apocalypse. Most of its work would be processing wood so lots of chopping and batoning. So a knife with the least chance of snapping from abuse. My big knife is the Condor Heavy Duty kukri, because I saw Alan Kay win the first series of Alone with it. 1075 carbon steel. It would need constant care and attention, which is another bonus, because I'm sure some people would think this a chore, it actually gives you something to do when, what else is there to do all day in an apocalypse?
Self defense and zombie killing is a breeze for the kukri. Tool of choice for the British Gurkhas.
The first half of the spine is flat and sharp, the second half is smooth and rounded, perfect to use as a draw knife and goes easier on your baton.
Many other details to mention, I just think it's a perfect knife for the end of days. Although I would upgrade to the K-TAC version for the G10 handle and steel pommel.
I wouldn’t use anything but a Wicked Edge sharpener because you will get an incredibly sharp edge at the best angle for the knife and how you use it-especially for kitchen knives. Also you sharpen both sides of the edge simultaneously. The bevel of the edge matters.
for a larger chopper I'd go with the Nata tool by Silky for a tough-as-nails affordably priced chopper. I missed out on the larger (210-240 mm) versions when Daitool had it in stock for only...72$ I think (and free shipping).
Love the clever "sage" advice for ghosthunting. And Thomas' Shaman comment. I immediately thought of the Salt, as a salt circle supposedly keeps a spirit out or traps it inside. Spyderco has a subtle ghost theme?😂
My generic apocalypse blade steel, not knowing what form the apocalypse is taking, MagnaCut. Easy enough to sharpen given I already have the equipment. Very stainless so I'm not losing edge to corrosion and don't need oil, tough enough to take something of a beating. Good enough wear resistance that I'm not constantly sharpening it. Without having to buy a knife for this, I would pick the Demko Freereign that's always in my bag which goes almost everywhere with me already.
Congrats on the new collab with Begg, Cronos. You deserved it. 👏👏👏
The perfect steel for the apocalypse is absolutely CPM-Cruwear. Tough, high edge retention, easy to maintain the edge, and will take a wicked patina from all that zombie blood. Also, if you go with the right manufacturer, its even called Z-Wear.
Zombie Apocalypse approved.
Hey DCA, lately I’ve been a big fan of the Wharnified reverse tantoku shaped blades that Thomas is so fond of pointing out. I just got a Kershaw craze, which is an incredibly useful little knife, and I’ve also been liking the Wusthof Asian utility knife in the kitchen; it’s actually become my most used kitchen knife. Are there any general outdoor knives in the 3 to 4 to 5 inch range with this blade shape? Bonus points if it comes in 14 C 28N or S35vn and has a sheath with a clip (because I often wear shorts without a belt).
Thanks, and keep up the great work!
Always love the show. Thanks for all the info and comedy.
Well for large blades 1095. Which is my Ontario 18 inch. But I have a cold steel barong which I love the design of. Wouldn't hurt to have steel upgrade like atleast 1075 ( wink wink nudge nudge cold steel). Belt knives I like a four inch blade so a decent stainless will do (mora garberg). Axes 1060 because that's what my favorite axes come in (council tools sport utility line) my take only one knife would be the bk9 for sure
Why choose 1095 over something like 80crv2, 52100, or especially aebl/14c?
I have a rather large collection of varying types of steel blades, ranging from 1055 to cmp-154, even several hand forged "damascus" blades, and id carry 3 in an apocalyptic situation, first my cold steel khan(AUS-8), my cold steel recon(sk-5 model) and my heretic knives nephilam(cmp-154), an alternative for the khan would be my crkt m21-02g, but those are my preferences
If I could only have 1, probably my Demko Freereign in Magnacut
1095 steel is good for uses as its easy to sharpen and fairly tough most big survival knives already come in it.
I think using the Shaman and the Bodacious is an unfair example for finger choils. The reason I prefer finger choils on a lot of knives is because I feel much more in control of the blade the closer I can get my hand to the cutting edge, so if you compare designs like the Spyderco Delica and the Byrd Meadowlark (ignoring material and quality differences) then I will always prefer the choil version instead of the one that "wastes" that same space for no benefit.
The Bodacious design is already really optimized for minimizing that distance, but that is not true of most knives (especially ones not made by Spyderco, they have always prioritized ergonomics and utility more than just about anyone).
It's often worse on flipper knives because if you don't add a finger choil in front of the flipper tab then you are almost guaranteed to be left with at least a half inch between the grip and the edge because the flipper tab itself is in the way. With other opener types it's at least possible to minimize the gap, but many companies choose to have an oversized sharpening choil (but one still undersized for a finger) or ricasso or something and leave a big no mans land between the grip and edge anyway.
Another good example would be the Steel Will Cutjack vs Modus where the alternative to the finger choil is just a large sharpening choil. I would much rather have the ergonomics and versatility of the finger choil than an extra 1/4 inch of cutting edge.
On the KnifeCenter exclusive Gemini I can put my forefinger onto the flipper tab and I've got the edge right at my hand to cut closer to my hand. I LOVE button lock flippers!!!! I'd love a KnifeCenter exclusive Gemini with everything the same, but longer handle, even if it wasted a chance for a longer blade
I usually hate the look of Begg knives, but that one's pretty good.
Yay! Thank you very much for your answer! Getting a question featured here feels like getting voted President!
I never considered the balance point of a larger fixed blade, so that totally makes sense.
With the olympics ongoing, which knife would you choose to represent each sport?
i would take a TOPS'fied version of Cold Steel Natchez Bowie - make it full tang, 1095 or 3v, add the sawback on top and that would be a good start for an Apocalypse knife.
Hello DCA and team, I have a tough one for you. I recently moved to the beach and I am having issues with the knives I typically carry. Every few days I have to take apart my knives to clean them because no matter what I do, fine pieces of sand find their way into the inner workings of the knife and make my fidgeting horribly unsatisfying. I need your help finding a very corrosion-resistant, sand-proof/easy-to-clean, left-hand-friendly, knife. I am a huge fan of classy and fidgety folders but I am open to anything you feel fits my needs. No particular budget but nothing too crazy. Thank you and keep up the good work.
The discussion around finger choils, as with many other knife features, all comes down to: 1) what you want the knife to do & 2) how you intent to use it. eg. finger choils are very useful when doing close up tip work but are next to useless for chopping. As for the perennial steel choice discussion - as DCA said it doesn't matter up to a point. eg. if you want to maintain a blade in the field, REX121 would be a bad choice. Better off focusing on the knife design and blade grind. Sharp blades all.
My apocalypse knife choice would be the condor ulu in 14C28N. The 1075 is ok, but I would prefer a stainless version. The handle shape and construction lends it to many situations such as lashing it to a stick and boom, you now have a hatchet.
i recall reading or seeing a reason for the choil in hunting/tactical as a way to pull the knife back out quickly from in front of the guard with out cutting oneself
Hello DCA, Thomas & Seth. My favorite style of pocket clip is wire and I find it a little frustrating to find knives that have them. Can that be added as a search filter on the website please? Thank you all!
Great video. I have the WorkSharp Professional Precision Adjust and absolutely love it. Super easy to use and it delivers insanely scary ultra sharp results every time.
Yes yes and Yes😉 I really enjoy your videos. Thanks for all the info!
You pulled a lot of spydercos to explaining what fingerchoils are good for, but didn't pull any spyderco slipjoint, where the fingerchoil (when in in use) hinders the blade from closing.
A fair point! -DCA
V-Sharp is a great cheap way to keep your blades sharp without having to know anything about sharpening, you just have to learn which of the sharpening plates to use for dull knives and which to use for finishing knives. It's really a very easy way to keep great edges on all your knives.
I think my newly acquired WTG Ares in K329 is the ultimate apocalypse knife. Anything WTG is lol. That and Zombie Tools.
Hey DCA, love your work, research, and commentary. I've been watching for awhile and feel confident picking out a bushcraft or tactical knife. My situation is I have a new to me son-in-law, a good kid. He's into hunting and fishing all the way to skinning and preparing deer and turkey. The aftermath (deer heads, hides, and turkey feathers) he uses for tanning and display art. My question is, what would be a good knife or set of knives to accomplish the tasks of dressing, skinning, and manipulating the deer and turkey materials. As usual price is not an issue for quality but he is a NEW son-in-law. Might pick middle of the road to upgrade later, if he proves time tested. 😊
Regarding the "finger choil" discussion. I purchased a knife awhile back with a finger choil to play with and feel it. Now, every time I see a knife the designer felt it necessary to include a finger choil I can't help but get the gut feeling that it might be a poorly designed knife where they slapped a patch on the design by including a finger choil as a quick solution to compensate for the design error.
CPM 3V for me!...in a survival situation i prefer durability over edge retention....if the blade breaks edge retention won't matter
For knife steels:
humans for hundreds of years got by with bronze, iron, and very basic steels.
You could go back in time and give them something like 14c28n and blow their minds.
Almost any steel that can get sharpened somewhat easily would be sufficient.
Sure, magnacut would be best, but thats assuming you have some diamond plates that can sharpen it.
One of the main selling points of Magnacut is that it sharpens up much easier than other super steels so a diamond stone (which would be necessary for say Rex 121 or CPM S110V) isn't necessary for Magnacut.
I would stick with what I use for work! Cpm cruwear. It's almost stainless, holds a great razor sharp edge, and is very very tough!
Hey DCA. love your vids... I like the Microtech MSI the blade shape mostly... not cost or the size.... what would be a smaller more budget alternative? A small edc fixie or folder ...
As far as finger choils go, the Cold Steel Tuff Lite is unmatched
keep up with your blades stropping is great to keep all knives sharp.
Dca, over the years, my knife skills have brought to the point where smaller blades are better. However, my hands ride the cusp between large and Xl gloves. Could you recommend a fixed blade knife with a 3.5-4.5 in blade but has enough handle for larger hands? If possible, something that is equally at home on the homestead as it is bushcraft camp.
Please do an episode on knives with finger choils that aren't Spyderco or Esee. I love finger choils on knives and find myself carrying them more than anything else, and I'd like a finger choil knife in every lock type, blade shape, and any other diffentiating knife types.
Hello DCA. I am relatively new into folding knives and recently discovered Rockstead. Their knives (and price) blew my mind! It made me wonder whether such knives are meant to be used at all or are only to admire. Is it possible to EDC such knives and be able to maintain their incredible polish and sharpness? If yes, how would you recommend doing it? Love your KniFAQ series! Thanks a lot.
Finger choil's are super useful in the UK where you can't have a locking knife in public.
I would go to a 440c high toughness and easy to sharpen and if its a buck than it will be heat treated to the max. Buck 110 and a buck 119.
Never got the point of the choil on the Manix 2 it has plenty of handle, kinda wish they hadn't done that.
Maybe they take cues from what led to Bodacious and visit the idea on Manix 2. Another mystery, why some Manix two you can disassemble and add aftermarket extras and some you can't?
FOBOS knives includes good sharpening information with their knives. They give general angle guidelines to achieve higher slicing capabilities, or have a less "slicey" but tougher/damage resistant edge.
Hey DCA, I have a Buck 192 that I have used for years to field dress game. I know and like the shape of the blade and the thickness of the grip but I could be easily convinced to try something more modern as a replacement. Cost does matter as knives get left behind occasionally, so around a hundred bucks…?
Some people will take everything to an obsession, knife angles included.
First question: IT DEPENDS! In horticulture it can get you through any test question and it works for most day to day questions in life 😅
I wouldn't want something that would require a diamond stone
With experience it's a feeling. I proved to a friend that I could sharpen a knife better with a soft Arkansas Washita stone better than he could with his Lansky system
The Hogue Ballista would have illustrated both. the finger groove and finger choil.
Once I learned to feel that edge along the sharpener I haven't needed an angle guide
Spyderco is one of the few that does a finger choil right.
It's not part of the cutting area.
Done the typical way, choils are great for rope, fabric, etc. to slide into and get stuck in.
I loved the Monty Python reference. Very subtle.
Definitely going with MagnaCut for my apocalypse steel. It pretty much covers all the bases. Great edge retention with a good heat treat, still tough enough to handle hard use, and damn near impossible to rust in most environments. I find it surprisingly easy to sharpen as well considering. It strops back beautifully too. I'm usually not big on the "popular" steels, but Larrin hit that one out of the park.
I enjoy a modern so called super steel as mutch as the next men, and they are great, but we have to remember, over the ages, people managed to survive and prosper with softer materials, like copper, bronze and iron. So, in my opinion, a good set of skills and knowledge will certainly come in handy, regardless of your knife steel.
I'm always going to carry a sharpener, preferably a diamond one
154. CM is my steel of choice for the apocalypse.
It’s one of my favorites.
Why that over aebl/14c? Much tougher
My favorite steel for the apocalypse is in the form of a Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II, aka, the Warthog.
14c28n & friends for apocalypse steel, followed by Magnacut. I like the Helle Nord better than the Crocodile, though
Gotta say, the finger choil is what ultimately pushed me away from spyderco. I just don't see the need at all in 90% of knives, and I think that there are designs that would be far far better without the choil.
Uber ergonomics and total function, looks be damned knives are stupid unless you are doing hours of work with the knife, hours of cutting I mean
Howdy Knife center, RAAAAGHHH. They are called car stops! I'm taking my KABAR, and homemade seaux made out of a crowbar.
Hey DCA and Thomas,
Love the show.
Question I love the Spyderco Endura but I don't love the saber height grinds on my model, is there any advantage to saber grinds or saber height grinds for that matter over a full flat grind? My thoughts are possibly on the endura a toigher edge but I don't know.
Of course I'm goin' more for the toughness steels, nice to see cheaper Nitro-V folders coming out
Question: What would be a good sheath system for fixed blade knives while one is horseback riding?
I would probably think the best one is a Kydex Dangler, but depending on the knife (especially if i am carrying a big fixed blade) this might not be enough. Thoughts?