DC-DC BOOST CONVERTER: EFFICIENCY & UNDERVOLTAGE PROTECTION!
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- čas přidán 24. 03. 2023
- #diy #power
This video was made to show how to set the under voltage threshold of a DC-DC constant current boost converter. Also in this video, we showed how to measure the efficiency of the 1500W boost converter using some cheap digital power monitors.
Relevant videos:
1800W, 10-60V to 12-96V Constant Current DC to DC Boost Converter, for Ebike, and Battery Charger.
• 1800W, 10-60V to 12-96...
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I noticed the same voltage drops in my power monitor (that looks exactly like the one you show at about timestamp 5:40 ) which, for mine, is rated for 200 Amps. Even around 70A when charging super capacitor banks, the wires became hot causing false readings. The fix was simply to replace the monitor wires with much thicker wires. They don't fit so nicely, but it cured the problem...which could become very significant at 200A!
You are absolutely right.
Using thicker gauge wires helps with ohmic losses, but thicker guage power cables are always a pain to work with.
Great video!!
Very well explained and easy to understand.
Thanks a lot for making these videos. I learned a lot from watching your videos.
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Thanks a lot for the wonderful feedback!
We appreciate it.
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Great stuff. Thank you 👍👍👍
Thanks a lot!
I appreciate the wonderful feedback.👍👍👍
The Innovati0n Lab💥
After the last comment, I hooked my adjustable bench supply and tried out the UVP adjust pot. I couldn't get a very precise value as there seems to be a good bit of play (hysteresis) in this control function. Also, If I got near enough to the setpoint (while the LED was still off), I noticed that if I wait a few seconds, without turning the pot, that the LED would slowly start turning on...same with turning off...I guess it takes a bit of trial and error to get an 'exact' shut-off value.
THANKS FOR ILLUSTRATING THIS FUNCTION...I never found any details on using UVP!
Hi friend!
I am glad you found this video useful 👍😎.
You are right about the built-in hysteresis in the UVP control loop. This is not something I have not tried to measure. Also, there could be some slow response because the voltage sense inputs to the comparator could be slightly more capacitive (all assumptions....I honestly don't know).
I guess the best thing to do might be to shoot for narrow voltage window/range instead of targeting a precise voltage for your UVP setpoint.
I hope this helps.
👍😎
The Innovati0n Lab
*I have watched this video twice now. You have some great information here and i really appreciate you sharing it . I have a question. How do we know what size boost converter do we need for our project. What determines if the converter is suitable. My input and output voltage falls within the range. What else is important to know if it works?*
Thanks a lot for watching our videos and for the wonderful feedback. We greatly appreciate it.
However, to your question, this converter has a wide range of applications that you can use them for. It depends on the power needs of your design.
May I know what you are using the converter for?
Very informative video. Thanks. I was able to hook up a boost converter from a source battery (42 volts) to a 48 volt inverter successfully. Quick question for you: are you using PLA for your support and casings? If so, don't you fear it might somehow melt if the temperature increases?
Thanks a lot for such wonderful feedback!
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Yes, I use PLA to print the card mounts. You are right to have those concerns, and that also tells me that you are analyzing everything - I like that!
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A couple things to consider;
The thermal interface/coupling between the card stand and the heatsink is really minimal, and the heat transfer should not be that significant - given that PLA is a poor thermal conductor.
Secondly, the melting point of the PLA that I use is around 215 Deg. Celsius, so, if the heatsink gets this hot, the converter should already be dead...lol.
My point is that the heatsink should never get hot enough to be able to melt the PLA. The key is to always make sure that the fan is running....and to add more external fans if need be.
Wonderful question!
We need more analytical minds like you in here. Please share our videos with your project groups/friends.
Success wishes on your projects, friend!
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Thank you for the video, can you please upload the STL File for the holder?
Thanks a lot for watching our videos and for all your support.👍👍
I need the cleanup design and then figure out the best way to share the 3D model files.
Also, I am working on setting up an online store where you can buy such printed jigs for DIY project testing. Stay tuned, my friend.
Very informative experiment. However, due to low input voltage at high power consumption we therefore draw more current that results in I2R losses (heat) hence the drop in effeciency the higger you go. Best system is higg voltage at low current and constant power. Perhaps next experiment should be where you adjust current and leta see how effeciency compares
Hi friend,
Thanks a lot for the wonderful observation and great feedback. I do appreciate the interaction.
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You are absolutely correct about the effect of I2R losses due to cable resistivity and wire ampacity. However, this should really be minimal in my setup, given that I used 10AWG cables and wire runs are fairly short. Also, as I explained in the video, these boost converters have an input current limit of 30-40A, and the losses on the cables as a result of heat dissipation should be very small.
Yes, thank you for the video. I’ll have to give your example a try for the UVP.
Also- are you selling any of those holder’s ? 😁
Thanks a lot for all your support and inspiration!👍👍
I will be able to sell such items in the near future. Stay tuned, my friend.
Thanks again for all the amazing support.
@@theinnovati0nlab782 thanks, I look forward to this ! I have a ebike that I experiment with, so the “holder” that you made, appears a lot more mount worthy than those standard metal posts 😁
Just order one switching transistor and solder it parallel with the main switching transistor and efficency will go up👍
I hear you.
I wish it was that simple.
Have you been able to do this? How effective was it?
Please share results with us if you don't mind.
👍😎
The Innovati0n Lab💥
www.theinnovati0nlab.com
Thank you for the video
Can it limits the output current? I want to use this to power microinverter at night using 12v battery
Thanks for watching the video and for the wonderful feedback.
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Yes, there is about a 30A output current limit.
At 12V, you should plan for about a delivered power on 300W give or take.
I hope this helps.
👍😎
The Innovati0n Lab.
Greeting! Very educational videos!!! Well done Professor! Which converter would you recommend to make a power supply with DC input and output~ 4-6V and ~8-12A adjustable ! That it can work without interruption and overheating for a long time!
Hahaha!
Thanks for the wonderful feedback. I am glad that you are finding our content informative.
It sounds like you will need a buck converter. Since your output voltage need is quite low, I imagine that you probably have an input power source that is greater that 12VDC?
If that is the case, you can check out these Amazon Buck converters. They are rated for a maximum output current of 30A. See the link below.
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ACEIRMC 3pcs 20A 300W CC CV Step Down Module Adjustable DC 6-40V to 1.2-36V Voltage Regulator Buck Converter Constant Current Power Supply Module a.co/d/ecBoSnh
@@theinnovati0nlab782 I'll adjust the input voltage to what I need to get the output 5V ~8-12A ?
@marox3G
You can only adjust the output voltage.
The converters will take any input voltage within the manufacturer specified range and regulate it to the voltage you set it to.
I have made some buck converter videos, and they should explain some of these concepts to you.
See below.
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This is the perfect example for what you are looking to do.
czcams.com/video/Wabe5f6sUgo/video.html
At about timestamp 7:29 I noticed that you were turning the UVP pot a bit fast when the LED came on. If you turn back a bit until the UVP LED just "barely" starts to turn on wouldn't you get a more precise 20.0v trigger setting?
THANKS MUCH!
Great observation, friend!
However, I honestly didn't see the need for precision with the UVP set point. For something like that, I would usually give myself some good safety headroom. For example, if the critical UVP is 20.0V, I will set the converter UVP 20.5V of if 21V - depending on the amount of flexibility I have with my design.
thanks for this video maybe i will try this step up dc dc boost converter constant current 30ampere that i can buy on the Onlines shopping store i will try this to my Ebike" because my Ebike has a 60 volts 20ah 5 battery that connected on series. 🤔 so my plan is to buy this step up converter and i will make my 5 battery's in to parallel to make a total of 100ah in to 24volts.. for high efficiency " maybe 🤔
Nice! What about GaN DC DC Converter that could achieve much better efficiency (95+%) ?
Thanks a lot for the wonderful feedback.
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My understanding is that GaN driven devices, even though more compact - with higher efficiencies, are usually more expensive. 😊
Are there any affordable GaN converters that you can recommend?
Please let us know.
Thanks again!
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OK, which way did you turn the pot to lower the threshold for low voltage cutoff? I would guess turning CCW would lower threshold (lower voltage). Right?
czcams.com/video/WDWJ77WWkXc/video.htmlsi=zAHTp26jp7KjhG-o
Can i use this boost converter to power may amplifier board ZK HT21..Which require input power supply is a 12v to 36v
I am always careful with making recommendations since I don't know the exact specs or power requirements of your amplifier. However, you should be able to do that as long as your amplifier is not very sensitive to the nature of the drive input power. I have actually used one of my boost converters to do exactly what you intend to do, and it worked really well without any issues. However, please take the time to review the input power specs of your amplifier in terms of input voltage ranges, ripple noise,.. and so on.
Also, make sure that you adjust the output current setting to the maximum setting. This way, your converter output will not fluctuate or 'Brown out' when your amplifier demands high power from in (current surges).
Success wishes on your projects.
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*@theinnovati0nlab782 So i purchased one of the boost converters and i have a question. Do you think it would be okay to mount it upside down so the fan can have the best air circulation ? for my project i wont need to change the voltage much so im ok with not having quick access to the circuit board. Thanks for any input!*
Absolutely!!
I have done the same thing myself - for the wall power supply that I built a while ago. Although for mine, I needed to be a ble to use it to charge different batteries and voltage levels, so I extended out the voltage and current adjustment potentiometers.
Check out the video below. It was from a while ago.
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DIY Wall Power Supply/Universal Battery Charger.
czcams.com/video/OYzvwmOy3gw/video.htmlsi=ZhVGj1uBbz6wV-ya
@@theinnovati0nlab782 Great, Thanks ill check out the video . right now . I appreciate your response!
hey man, i got the same thing a few days ago and it is being powered by a 24v 25a 600w psu. i connected an amp meter that tops at 30 amps after the converter and it's redlining past that which it shouldn't as every description of every store selling it says that it has output 0a up to 20a. the potentiometer for the current doesn't seem to do anything. could you offer you opinion if it is busted or not, to change it or if i do anything wrong? and another, i noticed that by supplying 24v it doesn't go lower that 24v when i turning the voltage potentiometer down (several stores and people over the internet refer to it as buck-booster). could you possibly know if it stays at the voltage supplied by the psu without going lower? (otherwise i can only guess that it could be a side effect if the whole unit is busted)
@Gene669,
Thanks a lot for the detailed feedback.
Before addressing some of the questions you have, I would like to correct the online notion that these converters are Buck-boost topologies, the are not. These are simply Boost Converters, which means that you can only adjust your output to go higher than the applied input voltage. Hence, this is why your output voltage is not lowering below the applied 24V.
Lastly, concerning the current adjustment, you have to apply an actual load to the output of the converter - that is significant enough for the converter to recognize.
If you are using this configuration for battery charging, the current adjustment only happens after you have set the converter output to the battery charging voltage.
Example:
If you are using the 24V system to charge a 24V lead acid battery, your charging current will fall to zero very quickly, and the current adjustment will not work. This happens because you need 28V as the charging voltage to a 24V lead-acid battery. Now, having a potential difference between the charger and the battery causes current to flow in the circuit......and now you should be able to adjust the current Adj. Pot.
It could also end up being the the current ADJ. potentiometer is bad - especially if you have tried everything and still couldn't get the current adj to work.
@@theinnovati0nlab782 thanks a lot for the reply man. i'll apply load to check it.
Have you observed the fan kicking in?
Yes, I have.
The fan always works in all the units I have used. You have to have enough load on the system to cause it to turn - as the converter warms up. The fan is controlled by a small temperature sensor attached to the heatsink.
So more load = heat = temperature rise ===> fan turns on.
Also, the ambient temperature in your place of use can affect the turn-on of the fan as well. If your converter is exposed to better cooling during the winter, then it would take higher loads to turn on.
I hope this makes sense to you.
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The Innovati0n Lab💥
www.theinnovati0nlab.com
Hey how do I adjust the amperage to maximum😊
czcams.com/video/WDWJ77WWkXc/video.htmlsi=qnSoXHPqSPTYNCZG
I wish that the uvp will trigger a full shutdown of the converter rather than outputting a low voltage that could stop running the load due to inadequate voltage😮
I fully agree.
But it will cost more for the designer's to add that function.
The converter wouldn't be this cheap if they were to those.😊
I hope that makes sense.
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The Innovati0n Lab 💥
I agree 😢😢😢😢
Does somebody know the calculation of the efficiency?
If I know Vin(3.7) and Vout(5) and 0.25mA out at the converter.
I'd like to know what would be mA out from the battery ?
So I can work out the loss during the conversion.
Thanks.
Hi friend
I am sure that the content creator that made this video probably knows how to calculate converter efficiency, as you might have seen in the video. However, we are not sure if this question was rather directed to the audience.
Anyways, thanks a lot for watching our videos.
We do appreciate it.
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@@theinnovati0nlab782 Hi. Thanks for replying. I'm not sure it can be calculated because it probably depends on the converter itself.
So it can probably be measured only through testing like the content creator did.
That question was directed to whoever could answer it. Cheers!
@Laurent C
The efficiency can be calculated, but you are missing a crucial parameter. You need to measure the input current from your battery to the converter. Combine that with all the other variables you have already measured, then you can extrapolate/calculate your efficiency.
Another way you can do it will be to reach out to the manufacturer and request test data. Some big manufactures (not amazon or eBay vendors) will provide load/efficiency response plots for their converters. With this, you can extrapolate the expected efficiency at your test load....then, with that information, you can now solve the input current.
Please let me know if you still need help when you have all the right variables.
@@theinnovati0nlab782 Yes, that's what I meant.
I thought all the converters would give the same efficiency at the same amps and Voltages.
So I thought there was a formula that I could use.
But I guess I will only find out when I measure it then.
@Laurent C
Different converters/ switch-mode power supplies (SMPSs) or power inverters have different efficiencies - even at different test loads. Actually, for most converters, the efficiency will be higher as you approach the higher end of the rated power output.
It even gets tricky with converters with a wide input and output voltage ranges.
So, in a nutshell, here are some variables/parameters that could affect the measured efficiency of a converter;
1. Applied Input voltage level
2. Input current limit
3. Output power rating with respect to your test load.
4. The rated converter Quiescent power (power required by the converter to operate all the control electronics)
5. Converter cooling - when your converter gets super hot....you will basically be losing lots of power to heat. This is because at these temperatures, your semiconductor switches....transistors, MOSFETs, are now dissipating lots of power as a result of increased RDS(ON)......
6. The nature of your test load - inductive loads are noisy and tend to generate lots of ripple, which in turn can lead to poor converter perfirmance or efficiency.
There are many more factors.
Efficiency formula:
Basically,
EFFICIENCY(%) =
[(INPUT POWER) / (OUTPUT POWER)] × 100
OR
EFFICIENCY(%) = [(I(in) × V(in))/(I(out) × V(out))]
WHERE;
I(in) and I(out) are your measured input and output currents.
V(in) and V(out) are your measured input and output voltages.
So, you have to plug in all the FOUR variables above into the formula to calculate your converter efficiency at any given load.
Thanks again for the thoughtful interaction, my friend!
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Please let me know if you have any more questions. I try to keep these videos at a surface/beginner level, so I won't bug down the viewers with too many calculations and unnecessary information.
Does the watts in equals watts out
Input power is always greater than the output power because of efficiency losses. Unless the converter has an efficiency of 100%. No converter has that.
You never showed how to adjust the current dial. Counter clock wise to increase current or CCW to increase current?
Hi friend.
Thanks for the feedback.
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I may have missed that one. However, I believe that going CCW in the direction of the arrow decreases the output current. So, going CW should increase the output current. However, you can easily test this using a simple dummy load like a 12V light bulb or a power resistor. A 10ohm, 25W resistor should work.
Steps:
1. With the test load disconnected, adjust the output voltage to about 14V. I recommend using a 12V battery for this test.
2. Connect your dummy load and then play with the current adjustment.
Note: if your current setting is too low to drive the load, your output voltage will drop. No worries, this is normal. Now, as you increase the output current, your output voltage will also increase.
Warning: This should be a short duration test (less than 2 minutes) because leaving the resistor permanently connected will lead to excessive power/heat dissipation, and this could be hazardous.
Safety
Safety,
Safety, my friend 😎👍
Success wishes with your DIY projects.
How many volts input and output needed to get 10A output
The measured output current depends on a lot of factors. It is difficult to accurately answer this question without knowing the following;
- The input voltage
- Available input power
- Output load, etc.
The performance of a converter is primarily measured in terms of input power vs output power....you can calculate or measure the output current when other conditions/variable are known.
@@theinnovati0nlab782 thank you sir.
I use it for my laptop
From 12 to 19.5v. 7.7a, but the fan spins and stops. There is a little heat. Why does the fan not keep working?
Nice!
There is a small temperature sensor attached to the heatsink that tells the system when to turn on the ON and OFF.
It turns off because your laptop is probably drawing just small power from the converter. But if it doesn't turn ON at all under heavy loads, then there could be a problem, and you can just add an external fan
I hope this helps.
👍😎
The Innovati0n Lab
@@theinnovati0nlab782 The problem is that after an hour of use it starts to spin and stop and this happens again and again
Hey there is a 800w one and the output is 30amp
Awesome!
Good to know.
Can you share a link to it? I would love to check it out.
How hot does it get?
It depends on the load.
Always add an external fan to your converter.
Hello, can i have the 3d file for the case pls?
Please check in the download page of our website for our free downlodable designs.
www.theinnovati0nlab.com
Can you share the 3D model file?
I will, soon enough.
Stay tuned.
Thanks a lot.
Man, when you utilize this board as mppt solar charger you can get advantage of this uvp. Solar panels act like current sources if you put lower voltage you are losing Watts. A typical 12v solar panel has its maximum power point voltage around 17v. I'll bet that if you put the under voltage protection around this number you'll get the maximum power.... Taking care of giving all the current it can give to the battery. In this way the uvp act like a mppt....
Hi friend,
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback. We appreciate it.
Your theory is sound, but in real life, doing that results in oscillations.
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@@theinnovati0nlab782 May be... If the board hasn't a compensation loop designed for that .... Good info in your videos anyway
Agreed, and once again, your theory is sound about the compensation loop response.
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However, there are a lot more variables to consider.
We need more bright minds like you in our CZcams community. Please help our channel grow by sharing our videos.
Success wishes on your projects.
👍👍
It will work in a way, but the mppt curve changes with temperature and how much power it produces, only a microcontroller with the mppt algorithm can track that.
іn 12 out 54,6 curent???????
Hi friend,
Thanks a lot for the question. But I am not exactly sure what you are asking. Care to maybe explain a bit more?
13:36 from 750watt to 590watt?? 150watt loss wtf
Well, welcome to the world of cheap converters.
To be fair, the test is not perfect, and there could be some cable losses on the input power section of the test setup.
But realistically, were you expecting an efficiency of 98% from a cheap $30 converter?
What you saw was an efficiency of about 79%, at the lower end of the rated input voltage range.
A higher efficiency constant current/constant voltage boost converter of the same power rating would cost hundreds of dollars - that is assuming you can even find one.
Now, if you have to pay for a custom design.....you are looking at thousands of dollars!!
We need to learn to be more appreciative of cheap stuff.....we get what we pay for. You can't buy a Toyota and expect it to perform like a Lamborghini.
The Innovati0n Lab💥
@@theinnovati0nlab782 what is the best cheap converter you found