Sonic CD Retrospective
Vložit
- čas přidán 12. 10. 2017
- I attempt to figure out my very complicated thoughts regarding Sonic CD! You get to watch the trash fire.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patreon: / kingdomklannad
Twitter: / kingklonoa
Twitch: / thekingklonoa
Last Life: last-life.net/
Script: docs.google.com/document/d/1s...
Unversed Cast (Podcast): / @unversedcast
If you liked the video, consider giving it a like and a favorite. Your next step would be to subscribe to receive updates on my content as it releases! Consider supporting me on Patreon if you have the cash to spare! Thanks so very much for watching!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sources:
Sonic 06: • Sonic The Hedgehog (20...
Mario cut-scenes: • Super Mario ALL INTROS...
The rest of the footage was gathered by me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sonic CD. Analysis. Retrospective. KingK. PC. Review. Critique. - Hry
Hi:
-I wasn't trying to say there was only one past checkpoint, I was trying to say you only get one shot with them and then they become unusable. There are more than one in each zone.
-APPARENTLY there's a restart button in the mobile version of the port, which really annoys me.
-I didn't know the pistons didn't crush you, which actually makes me somewhat re-evaluate my philosophical stance on life and the universe. Seriously though WHY would you suddenly make pistons safe after two games where they aren't? I'm gonna die young from stress I swear to god...
its okay man CD is just an inconsistent mess that we all love
I had trouble focusing: "Sonic's disposition?" Are you implying he's gay? That explain so much why he's more comfortable with tails chasing him than Amy... I mean by now it's obvious they are in couple, they even bicker occasionally while deeply caring for each other. DEEPEST LORE!
In regards to the pistons - they animate and move differently too than other drums in other levels and there are 3 of them in the level. the first two stand out and its very clear there is something underneath. The problem with the design is that you could pass these pistons without even knowing its a mechanic but it doesn't force you to use them (This is a problem that metallic madness does and its a total pacebreaker). understanding how they work also optimises your wacky workbench run you get an easy travel sign to the past and a easy route to the generator and the hologram.
Honestly Sonic CD is just way better than sonic 2. It's lows are far worse than CD's - hill top and sand ocean is boring, metropolis is fustrating, mystic cave's spikes and crushers, sky chase is a pacebreaking autoscroller,. It's got tons of bad design decisions and unfortunate difficulty spikes that make it frustrating to return back to. at least with levels like collision chaos, metallic madness, wacky workbench there are shortcuts and easy routes to find and it encourages replayability and experimentation. Its also a breezy game to play on the go on mobile I have a 30 minute commute on the train and I play it when my 3ds is unavailable.
You complain that Tidal Tempest requires you to go in the water, but Hydrocity does the same thing.
Oh I kinda wish I saw this before making a bunch of comments on these points.
The notion of Sonic having no interest in romance (unlike Mario) is an interesting point. I seriously thank you for considering these important matters in your analysis.
*Sonic 06 disliked this comment*
That's how I prefer him just fits his character imo
Sonic has a boy’s heart bUT IF HE DIDN’T-
ACE SONIC
I don't mind Amy crushing on him but I like his disinterest in romance, he just wants to go fast and smash Eggman robots lol.
The music is pure sex, yes, even the American soundtrack
O.... K?
Huhuehue
Hitting a robot from behind.
thats the oddest way to say 'the music is good' ive ever seen
This gives me some Scott the Woz flashbacks
14:00 So I played sonic cd first time recently. That piston robot generator was actually something I logically figured out. I found it itself but followed the pipes upward in hopes of figuring out a path inside through the tubes and then put 2 and 2 together to risk the piston seeing as it directly connected. Really proud moment tbh and very possible without a guide.
That's awesome! And cool seeing you here, I really like your EVA videos!
Same
Sonic CD is a game I've always liked, but I never realized how much I liked it until recently. I love the freeform nature of the level design, allowing you to play around and experiment for no real reason other than the fun of it. I like the choice between scrutinizing every nook and cranny or just running straight to the end. I love finding new ways to time travel, and the dilemma of whether to explore for an easy way to time travel or doing it ASAP and risking losing your chance. You mentioned the great presentation, but I think you understated just how incredible it is. CD is more visually, auditorily and thematically coherent and creative than any Sonic game ever made, and not only is every element beautifully crafted on its own, but they come together to create something absolutely beautiful. CD isn't a game I've played as much as other Sonic games, but whenever I do pick it up I always have a blast. With that said, FUCK Metallic Madness. Thank god for Mania redeeming that shit level.
I agree with you on nearly everything, but Metallic Madness was a blast. Finding the generators might've been a little dificult in act 1, but I enjoyed it fully nonetheless!
Funny wil e coyote should be commenting on a sonic video
Technically, the super peel out is faster than the spin dash, it makes braking and a little easier, and you could just roll into a ball after one, so I'd take the peel out.
Also if you have a horizontal gap, with the super peel out Sonic may clear the gap but with the spin dash he'll drop down it.
Personally I think the sonic spindash is an straight upgrade because you don’t have to smash that button and be frame perfect to get to the max speed
@MasterEpicGamer I don’t know, if you talk about that spindash where you don’t care about smashing the button and being frame perfect, someone should compare both.
@@user-nf2es5xv5w you seem to have gotten the peelout and the spindash confused. If you mess up the spindash in CD it flat out won’t work, you get the peelout wrong and you’ll just go at the spindash’s max speed.
Sonic CD is my favorite classic game tbh. I enjoy games with a slower pace
Boy it’s my favorite because of the time travel concept and the ost
Sonic cd is my favorite game it’s different like smb2 is. Sonic cd isn’t really a game that I would consider as different as smb2. Sonic cd exploration is my favorite part of it, the special stages are great like all classic sonic games and mania there’s a special stage that’s harder than the final special stage.
This is my favourite too.
BlazingTRS yep
Carlos Lee it’s still about exploration
This is probably the Sonic game I played through the most. I love the animations, soundtrack (the fact that there are 2 of them is a bonus), different variations of the levels due to the time travel, 2 options to get the good ending, good use of speed and exploration, good length and it even has a hint of strategy finding the best places to time travel. Too bad a lot of fans think it's overrated.
+Spiriten XIII I love it despite its messy level design
It's ok man, the Sonic fanbase is wrong about almost everything.
It's actually overrated
It's my favorite Sonic game! Well it was, until Mania came along...
I consider sonic 2 overrated
Great work, as always! Despite coming out a year later, I've always thought of this as more of an "alternate sequel" to Sonic 1 than a follow-up on Sonic 2, due to its development. Yuji Naka teamed up with STI to make Sonic 2, while Naoto Oshima stayed in Japan to helm Sonic CD.
Let's see... on this episode, you're going to get hordes of comments "correcting" you regarding the Super Peel-Out, and how it was differentiated better in the Sega CD version. But of all the mobile ports, I think Sonic CD definitely benefits most from it. The Sega CD version was the only old-school Sonic game that really could chug framerate-wise (since they were building on Naka's engine, but without the man himself), and the wonky level design means that reaction time to avoid cheap enemy placements comes into play a lot more.
One reason the soundtrack options are so limiting is probably because of how last-minute the whole thing was. The US soundtrack was only confirmed to be in the port at ALL a few weeks ahead of release, if memory serves.
I love your videos! especially the dkc ones
Somebody got early access to this video :D (your comment timestamp is a bunch of hours older than the video)
Yes I was about to say it is pretty clear Sonic CD is following after Sonic 1 not Sonic 2.
Wow, I just heard Vinesauce talk about you earlier this day.
Hey Josh Loved Your Retro Season! When are you Gonna Do more?
The exploration in this game is actually the most rewarding out of any Sonic game for me. Give me good futures, aka alternate designs of zones with often very beautiful music (metallic madness good future especially) over super sonic any day. I love how it feels to get to act 3 of a level and it not being the bad future hellscape it usually is. It really feels like you're saving the planet one zone at a time.
If there's one thing I could change about CD, it would be to remove the present. Start in the bad future, travel directly to the past, destroy the robot generator, hop into the future to see it get better.
As the game is, there's just too much effort required to see everything. Start in the present, go to the bad future to see what it looks like and hear the music, then back to the present, then to the past, find the robot generator, return to the present again and finally forward to the good future. Five leaps in each stage to explore everywhere. In practice, nobody is going to actually do that, there is no incentive to travel to the future, good or bad. It ends up being purely an act 3 thing. This is if you even care about getting the "good ending" because it changes pretty much nothing.
Starting in the bad future instead would let you see exactly what it is you're trying to avert. Simply seeing the robotic dystopia at the beginning of every act would be incentive to go back and set things right. Making it a single step to get to the past from there, with no future signs in the way, is not unreasonable and getting back to the future is equally easy, so it would feel more like you've accomplished something without needing to directly reward you.
Good video, but I feel I should point out most of the pistons in Wacky Workbench do NOT crush you. They mostly drop you down to a lower level like the one that takes you to the robot generator. It's consistent.
Icy Wind Yeah he was wrong about that, it's still a stupid mechanic though because there's no indication it won't kill you so why would you try it? Maybe they could have started the level with you having to use one to demonstrate the mechanic.
I I know you, you're from GameFAQs!
duckwantbreads they have something under them like rings so it's easy to tell you have to do something with them
Wait, they don't? Lol I just assumed they did.
That piston has something that makes it different: it’s the one that is in the upper place and it’s alone
"The Japanese opening is the be-" boiiiiiii those are some fighting words.
He's right tho
13:00 They are there to aid in time travel. There is a Past marker near the top right, IIRC, and to the left of it near by is the Roboticizer to destroy to make the Good Future.
I always thought Metal Sonic was Sonic from the future where Robotnik wins. The whole game is about time travel, and if you fail to change the past in each level or collect all the time stones, Robotnik uses their power to reset everything. Further evidenced in the Japanese soundtrack for Metallic Madness Bad Future. "You can't do anything, so don't even try." "Don't do what Sonic does." "Sonic, dead or alive, is mine." This horrified me as a child.
A lot of those "random" pathways are ideal for the time traveling mechanics. They're paths that make it easy for maintaining top-speed.
I think you're underselling Sonic 1 and 2's stories. There's tons of underlying, more implicit great storytelling and theming going on than you give it credit for.
Ruby of Blue Theming? Yeah.
Story? Hah.
No, really. It's more implicit and underlying but it is there. The basics of plot structure, but also deeper themes is present. And themes are a big part of a story. The groundwork comes from the manual's backstories, then the games themselves subtly expand on it.
In Sonic 1, Sonic is of course established as a hero representing fundamental freedom and environmentalism, while Eggman represents the opposite; oppression and pollution. But there's also another theme of the danger of greed. Throughout the game, Sonic navigates ancient, abandoned areas. When you read up on the Chaos Emeralds in the manual, you're able to put two and two together and conclude the ancient civilization misused the Chaos Emeralds and destroyed themselves, and Eggman is repeating history. The plot itself is very basic, but does have a present rising of tension. At the end of Labyrinth Zone, Sonic chases Eggman out of the trap-filled watery depths, and in Scrap Brain Act 3, Eggman scores a blow to Sonic before he has a chance to fight him, sending him down into more watery labyrinths, acting as an insult to Sonic, and to the player, since they're now forced to navigate the dreaded water sections because of Eggman. This puts Sonic and the player closer together in how they feel. And as a result, the final boss and defeating Eggman is all the more satisfying. At the end, Sonic uses the Emeralds to restore life, rather than use them for his own gain, ending on a message of using the power you have to help others.
Sonic 2 presents the same themes, with another civilization that misused the Emeralds, but with a more detailed plot. Sonic allows Tails to join the fight, even if it may be dangerous. When we arrive at Chemical Plant and Oil Ocean it's established that pollution can still happen even if your motives are pure, as the facilities were not built by Eggman. So it makes the whole theme a lot less black and white. When they get to Casino Night Zone, Sonic and Tails' names start appearing on signs, showing they're having a real impact on the Island with their heroic deeds. This especially serves to boost Tails' confidence since up till now he was a frail kid who was picked on, and this is a key part of his development in this game. When all seven Emeralds are collected, Sonic's wish upon the Emeralds is to become more powerful, to become a badass Super Saiyan. This is something of a dramatic irony or juxtaposition because Sonic is using the Emeralds to extend his own power, unlike how he used them in Sonic 1. What Sonic wishes for further solidifies his character in that he wishes for more power to do good, and also his fun-loving attitude in that he wishes to be badass like the Super Saiyans from Dragon Ball. This is the beginning of an arc he goes through in Sonic 3&K with a theme about power-drunkenness, but that's for another time. By Sky Chase, Sonic and Tails' bond have grown such that Sonic now trusts Tails to pilot his plane, showing off his amazing intelligence and mechanical skills. The music in this sections serves to present a 'calm before the storm' vibe. But the tension is then ramped up and drama is thrown into the mix as the Tornado is shot down and Sonic is forced to jump onto Wing Fortress. At this point, Tails could very well be dead. For both Sonic and the player, this gives them another reason to beat Eggman, to avenge Tails. At the end of Wing Fortress, Tails returns in an epic fashion, showing that not only had he survived, but managed to augment the Tornado with rocket boosters. This moment is pivotal because it shows he survived while also showing what he's truly capable of. Tails gets Sonic up to Eggman's escaping rocket and Sonic jumps on without Tails, showing that he doesn't want to endanger him like before again, so he's going alone. This is subtly powerful since the decision to let Tails join the fight might have been irresponsible, so it shows Sonic has learned from this. The fact that there are no rings during the Silver Sonic or Death Egg Robot boss fights adds to the drama. Up till now, Sonic has been using his Super form to make a joke out of Eggman. But now not only does he not have access to his Super form, but Tails isn't there to help either. So it makes Sonic all the more badass when he STILL manages to win, and escape the Death Egg. And because of how hard those fights were, it doesn't come off as Sonic being a mary sue, since you AND Sonic had to use your mind and work hard for those victories; again, bringing Sonic and the player closer together. It ends with Tails making sure Sonic is okay as he comes back down, again reaffirming their friendship. The ending cutscene really highlights how decisive Tails have become since the journey started.
So yes, Sonic 1 and 2 do have great stories, it's just more implicit, underlying, and not spelled out for you. If you think I'm reading too much into the games, whatever. As they say, the death of the author is the birth of the reader. It's up to the reader to deride what a work means to them. And this is what I got out of Sonic 1 and 2.
Let me quote a different CZcamsr for a moment here.
If you rely on an external media to tell your story, that's bad storytelling.
(Might not be the exact quote.)
And that totally applies here. If it wasn't for the manual, no-one but the devs would even know the islands' names. In-game, there is literally no story provided. Yeah, you destroy lots of robots, and that fat guy seems important, and there are Chaos Emeralds... and that's it.
Not exactly revolutionary, I'd say.
@@RubyofBlue It might sound mean initially but I actually mean this in a genuinely nice way, I've never seen anyone go so in depth with what looks on the surface level a very barebones story. Wether what you describe is truly the intended story or not I don't care, I find your take on it interesting and cool to read regardless. Very nice stuff here man.
@@RubyofBlue this post was legitimately more interesting and entertaining to read than any of the opinions in this entire video were to hear. if you write a blog i'd read it.
oh boy oh boy! i was waiting for the sonic 3&K one, im excited ^^
You might call me crazy but. Sonic CD is actually my favorite in the series.
Edit: this is what happens when you forget to do basic stuff like grammar
Game & Kris what ?
??????????
What series???
Dead Meme 94 The Sonic series you Knucklehead!
It's my favorite Sonic game in general.
14:47 In my second play through of sonic cd in an attempt to get the good ending, I actually did have one instance where traveling to the bad future, intentionally, actually helped me out. In one of the tidel tempest levels, i had gotten to a point in the present where I had passed all the past signs and couldn't go back anymore. After spending over ten minutes minutes trying to figure out how to get back in the present and giving up, I went to the bad future and and the level layout changed enough for me to get back to where I needed to be and travel to the past twice. I already knew where the generator was long before enduring all that crap though
The time-travel gimmick made it the Sonic game with the best replay-value, by far.
True. And you also have the option to get the time stones if you don't care about exploring
Yeah, and I (Unpopular opinion) like a lot better how you enter in the Special stages in Sonic 1/CD compared to Sonic 2
I've always felt similar about CD. I never played it until Gems Collection came out, did one playthrough, and never touched it again until the 2011 port. Did half a playthrough, and put it down. Honestly, it wasn't until just recently that I did another playthough and actually found fun in the game. I had to set aside my notions of what I want a Sonic game to be like, and enjoy exploring. Playing it through the way I play 2 or 3 made me feel dissatisfied, but taking my time to find the generators, holograms, and time stones made it a lot more fun. It's not my kind of Sonic game, but I can appreciate it a lot more now. And the animations are way too dope.
Highly looking forward to your Sonic 3 video. That one is by and far my favorite Sonic game, with Adventure 2 being me second favorite. Can't wait for it man. Good luck!
OH BOY MY LIFE IS COMPLETE
You talk sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo mmmmmuuuuuuuuuccccccchhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You say the Taxman port is the definitive edition, but also criticize some elements of the game that are ironically not an issue in the original.
First off, one of the easy bosses you mentioned as only being basic jumping from platform to platform is very different in the original. Sonic inherits more momentum from the upward velocity of the platforms, which makes the jumps more floaty. Though you criticize the bosses as being too easy, I think they test a much broader skillset than the Sonic 2 bosses by each having a unique gimmick that tests a different quirk of Sonic's physics, generally related momentum.
The taxman port's gameplay actually differs quite a lot from the original, especially in regards to momentum. Certain speed tricks like leaping over the first platform and badnik in Metallic Madness Zone 1 by peeling out and jumping off the ramp are no longer possible, because Sonic just overall seems to build up and maintain less momentum in the air. This affects the moment to moment gameplay a ton. Although you do mention the most egregious flaw in the whole port; the Japanese cutscenes lose their bumpin' lyrics.
I think you do sum up your view of the game really well with the peel-out, because it is exactly as you describe in the video... in the taxman port. In the original, the spindash functioned differently and had a notorious delay to it that made the decision between using it or the peel-out much more interesting. So while the bugfixes and general polish are really nice aspects to the port, I think it goes to show that you might not want to discount the original versions of these games out-of-hand.
The only other issue I felt you failed to address is when you say that there is no real incentive to go fast, but didn't mention the time attack mode where you can unlock bonuses by scoring certain times. Otherwise, great analysis. You're consistently one of the best video essayists out there imo, and I love this retrospective a lot so far.
Do you know of a better port? I would like to play it, but don't have a Sega CD.
Sprocket Sunflower Just get the Taxman port on steam, the problems he mentions are trivial compared to the massive improvements to Sonic's overhaul feel in the taxman port
Ive never played sonic cd but the soundtrack alone makes it worthy of existence
When I first played CD I was kinda shocked, because of how underwhelming it felt compared to the other 3 games. Especially considering how much praise the game got years ago. The level design felt like a clusterfuck, the music (USA) sounded meh and the collision detection ruined the game for me. It was disappointing and I felt the game was super overhyped.
But when I played that Taxman port of the game, I had a newfound appreciation for the game with how much better it performed under Whitehead's engine. I began to enjoy the more heavy exploration aspects of the game, the collision problems were fixed, I got exposure to the _godly_ Japanese OST and I enjoyed how the game is just oozing with style. (Those Toei cutscenes are the greatest thing created by man and aesthetics are top notch fam).
I'm glad I was able to have a better experience with this game, because I would have completely overlooked it's qualities and strengths without the port. It's definitely up there in my Top 5 Sonic Games.
EWOODJ Honestly, same
99,9 % owner of the game has never gone to Good Future Stardust Speedway.
EWOODJ Maybe awesome jp ost?
People said that because it wasn't widely available
"an enhanced port of sonic 2"
No, just no.
Sonic CD was supposed to be sonic 2 in the first place.
Sonic2 and CD had two different developers at the same time.
One took an interesting route to add a flying fox, super sonic as an actual thing, and have it be on the Genesis.
While the other attempted to stay as close to its roots as possible, as it's the team that was supposed to make sonic 2 but split in half.
This team however added in a peelout move for sonic, gave him the spindash, added a new damsel in distress hedgehog instead of his old sexy blonde girlfriend he had in the instructions booklet for sonic 1, and also gave him a rival which to be honest, was the high point of CD.
Racing against a robotic clone that's extremely identical yet complex to the point where it seems the clone is stronger better and faster, which makes for an awesome boss fight, yet is fucking awesome-r to actually compete against in the game. (even if it IS just a race)
Edit: forgot to mention that the peelout IS FASTER than the spindash, there's a reason it exists rather than to just give sonic another move to make him look cool.
sam buckaroo yeah the super peel out and the super spin out, are faster and more easy to use because you don’t need to squash a button like the spin dash.
Yes, just yes.
Sonic CD originally started out to be an enhanced port of Sonic 2 for the SEGA CD with CD-quality music, extra levels, etc. The problem is that STI and SOJ didn't communicate very well so Sonic CD took an entirely different path and eventually became its own game. Where Sonic 2 was rebuilt, Sonic CD was basically built off of Sonic 1. The coding for Sonic 2 wasn't shared and that's why Sonic CD's spin dash feels like a prototype and the peel out was the better of the two. It's also the reason why the sprites for Sonic are pretty much the same as well. This game is a prime example of what happens when all of SEGA doesn't communicate or share ideas.
I just use the peelout and then roll if I want to spindash.
Ethan ##*#*##* I do the same but in sonic mania
@@Sydney_Angelyt Agreed
I always thought the Peach letter promising cake was sent by Bowser. He already captured her, right?
Liam the letter was sent before.. It was a scheduled event. She will bake a cake
Bowser wanted to kiss Mario's nose all along
Doesn't bowser tell mario to leave when he enters the castle tho? Doubt bowser would want to kill mario if he wasn't trying to rescue peach
How the heck it happens so quick then? Mario didnt last too long to reach there so how??
What a birthday gift,nice vid man
happy birthday yo
KingK Yo, my birthday was on the tenth, so I'll just consider it a late birthday gift xD
I absolute love the Japanese soundtrack, was so taken aback when I first played the game
Found this channel recently, and have really enjoyed it. Keep uploading!
This is my first video of yours and I just wanted to say you have such a chill calming voice. Thanks for the upload :)
A KingK video on Friday the 13th? I find that more of a positive thing rather than a bad thing. Time to dig in.
You say "almost" psychedelic in regards to the art style...my friend, it is STRAIGHT UP psychedelic. This is perhaps Sonic at his most colorful and cybernetic. Very trippy in a very real sense.
This is actually my second favourite classic Sonic title after S3K, I think largely because of the visual aesthetic and the soundtrack (both versions). Plus the opening animation blew my mind as a kid.
if you liked the music that much, look up the genre of music "new jack swing", it was around in the early 90's and was a big inspiration for the music of this game
Objectively, not the best game. Subjectively, I have that "my first Sonic game" love for it. For the longest time it was the only mainline Sonic game you could get on the PC and my parents thought consoles were the devil. Not only did I pour over the game, finding all the secrets, beating all the bonus stages, getting all the good futures, you could pop the disc into a CD player and listen to the soundtrack. A lot of kids in school wondered why I had a PC game in my Discman.
Great video as always, KingK!
After S3&K and Mania, this is my favorite 2D Classic Sonic game. I love it
Definetly enjoyed the video. I was waiting for this one. Can't wait for S3&K!
Very good job with the video my friend. Been checking out your stuff since the sonic mania vid and i gotta say, you earned my sub.
Side note though I think everyone hates wacky workbench because of the fact that the only way to beat the stage (that i know of) is to stay close to the ground however since the ground flings you up and you gotta get back down, it just wastes a bunch of your time. (Also gg on finding the angel statue i found out about it like 7 years after my first playthrough)
There's something oddly satisfying about seeing your name in the Patreon supporters list.
Great vid K. I'm loving watching this series progress.
just found your channel today and I really enjoy the videos!!!
Great review, and I think you captured my feelings perfectly. I’ve revisited this game several times because of how highly some people regard it but it never clicks. People always praise the exploration but I don’t understand that aspect of it for all the reasons you said
I'm surprised you didn't mention how there are rings stuck inside the walls - I always thought it was because in the future/past level variants there would be no wall there, but I'm sure I remember testing that and the rings were always just stuck inside there.
You could sometimes time travel into a wall so they put rings there to help you find yourself out.
Great thoughts. I grew up with to PC port, and defended it a lot as the game nobody else played. The remake was weird seeing so many people start having opinions on it, but I'm very happy how many systems got a port of it and how very definitive it is.
Also, best song is US bad future Metal Sonic fight, and then of course, Sonic Boom. :D
I really think it's the visual aesthetic and music that make me love this game more than the others. For me its always just a feel good play through. The levels from the 1-3&k and Mania are all much more well designed and I could see that from initial run of the game. It kept nagging at me. Something like an internal conflict between game play/level design and visuals/music. So many times while I played I would think "Sonic 2 did this better.....but I'm enjoying this more". For some reason I was excepting more negative thoughts from you for this one so this was an interesting surprise. Great stuff as always! Can't wait for the next one!
Sonic 2 and Sonic CD were created simultaneously, so they're both direct sequels to Sonic 1. The goal of Sonic 2 is to get to the end of the levels and beat the bosses. The goal of Sonic CD, as shown in the opening animation, is to save Little Planet from Eggman. This can be done through a traditional playthough by collecting time stones, or by an exploration playthrough by destroying robot generators.
I was yearning for this :) thanks, KingK
Great job! I've never really known my own opinion on this game, and I think this video sums up my own thoughts very nicely, as well as being a great critical review
contrary to popular belief none of the pistons in wacky workbench will crush you, they all lead to secret paths.
Great video! Keep 'em coming!
Thanks for FINALLY bringing light to my biggest gripe with Sonic CD, the copy and paste level design and the times where the springs are pasted just for no reason. It makes it feel like there's no thought or love put into it, its just there just because. Metallic Madness is probably the least threatening and fun of the Scrap Brain Family which I guessed why they brought of back in Sonic Mania. Speaking of which, your description of Quartz Quadrant level layout is my biggest problem with Sonic Mania, when it locks you into a path you're on, it locks you so hard a lot that you can't ever get back on a better path. I wish more Sonic games took on Quartz Quadrant's level philosophy, 2D and 3D.
I agree with your methodology for playing Sonic CD. It's just really damn relaxing and fun. It's my favourite for all the reasons you listed: the music, the environments and the general style. I don't like video games that place a whole lot of challenge. Sonic CD strikes an excellent balance. I adore it despite it being extremely flawed (but flawed in what I see as fixable ways).
The analogy to the super peel out was perfect. This game is all over the place, much to love and much to roll your eyes at
I'd love to see Adventure-style remake of Sonic CD. The level structure, artistic design of the setting, environments and different timelines have a lot of unfulfilled potential. It would be a great chance to introduce more open levels and making speed (or rather gaining speed) a focused game-mechanic for exploration in a 3D-Sonic-game.
14:30 I'm so glad you touched on this because I also felt the stage design most of the time didn't really allow for time traveling, or, worse yet, something will break your momentum *right* as you're about to time jump, which causes you to lose it altogether. Metallic Madness is the absolute worst for this
I honestly cannot bring myself to like this game simply because of the level design, but this was an exceptional review. Reviewers nowadays need to be more like you; critical, but also rewarding where necessary. You've gained a subscriber and I look forward to watching your Sonic 3 video!
This is actually near the top of my classic Sonic list. To not write an essay, I'll summarize like this.
I enjoy playing through Sonic 2, but always avoid the Chaos Emeralds since the special stages suck, Super Sonic breaks the game and getting him locks you into the worst ending. By comparison, I ALWAYS go for the Time Stones in CD because I love the way it encourages you to explore for 50 rings and then book it to the end through these unique levels.
Get hit? Go searching for a time travel post which resets the level's rings and try to collect 50 again. I love the way that unlike almost every other Classic Sonic game, both getting to and completing a Special Stage feels like a skill check instead of memorization or, in 3 and Knuckles' case, luck of the draw.
And it helps that its the perfect length, has cool visuals, probably my favorite Classic Sonic boss ever in Metal Sonic, and, as you said, a fantastic soundtrack.
But regardless of us disagreeing, it was interesting to hear your take. And I'm sure I'll disagree on 3 and Knuckles to an extent so to each their own.
Yeaaah, you pretty much called out my main issue with CD. The level design starts bumping you about and is too tall to play into it's supplementary time travel gimmick where you need to maintain constant speed. Hunting for those nooks and crannies built for time travel is fine, but then it feels like they KNEW the game's at odds with itself and had to throw you a bone. Not to mention finding said speed-spaces could be tough. Irritating but not wholly offensive.
Soundtrack is fire though.
8:41 the fast forward shot of quartz quadrant is so smooth.
Sonic CD is my favorite Sonic game. Its just so weird and interesting.
Great Retrospective, Sonic CD is my favourite Sonic game and in my top5 favourite game. Despite the level design flaws, I still got immense in CD world, the graphics, exploration and most of all the music especially the JP/Euro soundtrack. I have yet to play S3&K to see if I like better than CD or even Sonic 2.
"Why wouldn't I just ... Spindash?" In CD, the Spindash doesn't maintain momentum as well as the Peel-Out does.
But the peel doesn't give you defense
@@BitchChill you can press down to start rolling tho
@@LonelySpaceDetective Weeb
Well worth the wait!!!
This a fantastic analysis. I revisit Sonic CD more than any other classic Sonic game, and yet, I've never really been able to articulate why I enjoy it despite its many flaws
1:45, oh wow, you're actuallly the first reviewer I've seen actually say they prefer the Japanese opening and that the removal of the vocals was detrimental.
Quality content takes time! Worth the wait!!
14:00 actually none of the pistons in wacky workbench crush you
Bringing up the more vertical stages is interesting, considering this is apparently Taxman's favorite Sonic and it feels like that may have been a factor when considering the stages he selected for Mania.
Great stuff as always! I try for years to like Sonic CD, but even enjoying the soundtrack and the visual design of the levels (the crazy industrial designs of Robotnik lairs is something I love in the classic Sonics, and CD nails it), I stop playing after just completing the first stage. I don't know, maybe I don't like the crazy level design which stops Sonic from running constantly even if the game encourages speed to time travel, but your review kinda made me want to try again, if accept and embrace the crazyness and random stuff is what this game is about after all, maybe I should try that and forget the more classic design of the others Sonic games, I guess...
In my opinion, CD has a LOT right with it, but it has a few drawbacks. I like it better than Sonic 1, but the level design is still pretty frustrating compared to 2 and 3&K. I guess CD was kind of Sonic 1's vision realized. Sonic 1 was more focused on tight platforming than Sonic 2 and 3&K.
Good job buddy, I been waiting for the Sonic 3 and Knuckles review though since you started these because that's my fav Sonic game of all time. I was even disappointed with Sonic Mania because it wasn't more like Sonic 3 and Knuckles (which I probably have hundreds and hundreds of hours in from when I was a kid, I also wish there was a proper PC port of those 2 games smashed together but I don't know if we'll ever get that).
Idea: The Present variants of each level is more focused on speed, but when you go past a time travel signpost (that act as checkpoints) and jump in to the nasteeh twinklies like entering Special Stages in Sonic 2 or Bonus Stages in Sonic Mania, Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Doing this will send you to the past (all signposts in the present are past signposts that are replaced by Future signposts in the past), which has a more non-linear design, and simply do the same while in the past to travel back to the present. Good/Bad Futures would be reserved for 3rd acts.
I think this could benefit the game very much, meaning those who want to explore can go to the past and destroy the generator of the act (which would automatically send you back to the present) while those who just want to play it like a normal Sonic game can speed through and ignore the past entirely to get the Time Stones from the Special Stages [which now automatically makes a Good Future for the level you were in when you beat the Special Stage, instead of re-writing time once you get all 7 {Only need to get 1 Stone per stage, not both acts, if you get the Time Stone in the 1st act, the ring will not appear in the 2nd}]), which makes it possible to get some Time Stones and some Robot Generators and still get the good ending, instead of needing to either get all the generators or all the stones (or both if you're insane).
Also, the part about only needing 1 Time Stone per stage to get the Good Future in said stage also gives you 2 chances to get a Good Future in the level you're in, per level.
Oh, and maybe keep the piss-easy bosses we already have and save them for the Good Futures and make the bosses harder in the Bad Futures. Maybe replace the bumpers on the EGG-HVC-001 with spikes or something and be forced to attack behind it when it jumps, instead of just jumping bumpers a bunch of times until they retract and you hit the robot 3 times.
Maybe make the Bad Future version of Quartz Quadrant's boss retract the room Eggman controls everything from rise over time and force you to knock it down every once in a while, perhaps make there more to focus on instead of just slow down when a bomb is a bout to drop and keep running.
Give the Metallic Madness boss more windmill fans and thus more hitpoints and things to worry about being hit by, with the fans spinning exponentially faster the less there are, making it harder to just take a hit in exchange for knocking the first one off and it being a cakewalk from then on.
This rewards either destroying the generators or collecting the Time Stones with easier bosses.
Amazing Video!!!
Love ur videos really great work always love sonic memories to the best times of my gaming years growing up Sega 4 ever
Okay this is just sort of a mesh together of how I feel about CD so there isn't really any cohesion. Idk, just read it and you'll see what I mean.
Sonic CD is one of my favorite 2D platformers (second only to Megaman X) and I honestly don't know why. The JP soundtrack is definitely a contributor though. I think what makes it so great is the music, stage aesthetics, atmosphere, and special stages that are actually fun to play. Sure the level design isn't for everyone, but I think its fun to play around with the physics. My favorite zone in the game is actually Collision Chaos because of that (and the awesome present soundtrack of course). I also love CD because, it plays much differently than any other 2D sonic game. I think that if you're a fan of more traditional platformers like Mario and you want to start playing Sonic, i'd honestly recommend CD as your first.
Hey, Mario is never really stated to be involved with the princess. That's part of the reason people get tired of him saving her constantly. Plus, he saved Daisy and Pauline.
Sonic CD is what I consider the heralding of the Dreamcast era, since many of the tropes of the Sonic Adventure titles began in this game most notably a reduced focus on speed and the treasure hunting focus. That said this game was clever enough to bypass the trap that Sonic games most consistently fall into - making the other playstyle optional. Would fans complain as much if Big the Cat's story was optional? If the Werehog was optional? If the Mach Speed segments of Sonic 06 were optional? Modern Sonic Team could totally learn from the example this game sets. Don't wanna explore? Don't have to, go for the time stones instead.
You should do retrospectives on some Mario titles. Really enjoy these videos, effort doesn't go unnoticed. Great job!
Nice vid. you got a sub
Btw the super peelout is faster than the spindash and if you screw up going to the past you can find another past sign in the level. You don't have to restart the level.
Wacky Workbench's OSTs from both soundtracks tho. Really good.
I feel like the general philosophy of the game is trying to encourage you to time travel but also the level design makes you lose your speed at every turn. You question the amount of random bumpers and enemies but I've always felt they were explicitly placed to cause you to lose your momentum and in turn lose that time travel ability.
In this way it makes the levels feel more actively antagonistic towards Sonic since everything was created by Eggman. I know there's a few times where you can just wait and store up the momentum but it's always been more fun to me to know the level design and avoid the springs and random blocks that will try to stop Sonic and just boost into the past. A few annoying robot generators aside it's more cool for me to break them cause it feels like I'm actively taking part in restoring the world and it feels like that's more central to my goal than fighting Eggman. The big expansive levels make it feel more like hunt for a needle in a haystack than trying to boost to the end, which I think is a cool change.
I do think it tries too hard to blend this new philosophy into old Sonic and perhaps would be better if it wasn't Sonic in the first place but I don't think it really feels super out there especially since it's clearly inspired by Back to the Future. And I think it's interesting that they built effectively four levels for every act considering they're so big.
Also those half pipes you were questioning were probably there to generate the necessary amount of speed to time travel while still moving forward.
Am I the only one who loves speed running the later levels IN CLASS?
What’s the magic here KingK?
How do you make me want to play a game i have never even thought about playing before?
I've said this a few times before, but my biggest problem with Sonic CD is that there is literally no reason to go to the future, ever, except for the third acts where you're either in the good or bad futures. All you need to do is go to the past, destroy the one generator, get the time stone. No reason to do anything else, because as you pointed out, the levels are kind of meandering. It perhaps speaks to Sonic's core gameplay here being simplistic - there's no reward for exploration of these messy and expansive levels except for... uhh... getting more rings?
Transition idea from tidle tempest to quartz quadrant(your swimming out of the water on your way to a cave you jump out of the waters in a shiny cave filled with shiny quartz and mechanical conveyor belts you step on a conveyor belt that takes you to the [quartz quadrant] outside of the cave of a land with
Beautiful hills and shiny pinkish purple quartz
The super peel-out anecdote was perfect tbh
My favorite boss fight from any Sonic game is that Metal Sonic boss fight from this game. I love the idea as well.
I fucking love sonic cd, it was the first game I ever played. This was an awesome video and I love hearing people talking about this game. I actually have a video about the history and my thoughts of this in the works, but now I feel obligated to wait some time
I don't get why people say this isn't "fast" like Sonic 2: almost every level can be beaten in under a minute if you choose not to explore. I beat this game in under an hour last week after about 10 years of not playing it.
Fast meaning you can fly through the levels at high speed IF you choose to. Get off deez boy
I agree with a lot of your criticisms, especially the fact the level exploration is useless unless you want to destroy the robot generators. One thing though, Super peel out is much faster than the spin dash. It gives you the fast shoes boost until your momentum is broken.
Basically, it's extremely charming.
because of the opening cutscene, the plathera of great music (and the fact the ost has 2 versions, the US is underrated tbh), the presentation, the implications of the storyline (the concept of Eggman creating a bad future and how it looks like if you were to lose, using the time stones to potentially erase your existence, the good future you can create,... It's great stuff tbh)
3 years, and he still hasn't backed away from his mic. 3 delicious years of bass-boosted kingk
That anology about the peelout though. It makes so sense.
This is very nice. Thank you.
Honestly it can be a nightmare to play. And watch. You feel the time travel coming, and then BAM wall or Future sign purposefully placed in your path. It's cruel.
I may be a bit late but... those half-pipes in Collision Chaos are made to gain momentum and travel to the past/future.
I really dig Sonic CD's wacky design, it's the classic Sonic game I come back to the most just because I find new things almost everytime. Best Sonic game IMO. But opinions are like asses, everyone's got one
I'm happy now if you're playing PC you can mod in Knuckles who plays mostly perfectly, and readd the JP OP and ED lyrics. I love CD to death.
Relaxing... That's exactly what I think about this game. It's like if you want to play classic Sonic on super easy mode for a break. It also helps that the time mechanic makes there feel like there's more variety than there actually is.
This video perfectly encapsulates why I don't really care for this game. For a game that prides itself on being about exploration, they really don't give you any incentive to explore the levels. They may have more nooks and crannies compared to Sonic 1, 2 and 3K, but they never do anything interesting with them. There's nothing to do in these levels after you destroy the robot generators other than run around aimlessly and collect rings. In the mainline Genesis games it was fun to explore because you actually felt rewarded for it and the base levels were fun enough to play regardless of exploration not being as much of a focus.
Sonic Mania is bassically Sonic CD with good level design.
Micah Buzan spoilers
yes
Mania has the verticality of CD with the spacious design of 3K, with hints of Sonic 2-esc speedier moments. It's the perfect 2D Sonic in terms of just level design imo.
Bullshit CD has great level design. Truly sad people cant see the genius of the game despite some major flaws in its concept and design.
I actually was disappointed with the Stardust Speedway in mania (including the boss). Generally mania has the best versions of a level they revisit, but here I found one of my favorite Sonic CD levels became one of my least favorite Mania zones. (The sky chase recap being the worst, though, especially because I feel cheated out of more of the excellent mirage saloon)
+TheSuperSaiyanNamekianGod
I disagree. If anything, it's the other way around. The level design does not work well with Sonic CD's concept and design. Example? Huge bottomless pit in the GOOD future of Metallic Madness.
I sugest you to play The Sonic 3 Complete hack is problaby The absolutely best version of The game
this
Plus you can officially play it on the steam version
Good video, however one thing to note is that the Sega CD version had horrendous collision detection with the stages themselves. This was especially apparent in the Stardust Speedway stages.
Awesome video man, I love this series. I kinda feel the same way about this game, not amazing but not offensive either