People often forget how incredibly fast technology was changing in the late 1800s. A rifle, ship, or cannon that was state-of-the-art when it was designed would be obsolete within 15 years.
True, it's wild to see it. This is how CSA forts were taken over by the Union during the civil war, the southern troops took over forts with "old" smoothbore cannons that were 20 years old and were easily outgunned by attacking Union forces with new rifled barrel artillery, so they could shoot at the CSA fort while being way out of range of the souths guns.
There’s nothing incredible about it, firearms was still at its infancy back then, there were still a lot of room for improvement. Firearm ammunition technology practically hasn’t changed singe the late 19th century, and just like the smart phones, “people forget how incredibly fast was changing in the 2000s”, a phone that was state of the art when it was designed would be obsolete within a year if not months, new things were constantly added! Looking at phones in 2020, there is hardly any differences in terms of functionality between generations as compared to the smart phones generations that just came out in the first few years.
@@thebotrchap Not yet, please share the video link here! by the way: the next film will be the mad minute with the Wänzl rifle dedicated to you and Britishmuzzleloader.
Props to cap and ball for making the 100% original style cartridge for the chassepot instead of making the newer repro style (wich is way easier and needed less material)
I can't be the only one who gets excited when there's a new cap and ball video, time to grab a beer and snacks and settle in! I'm amazed by how much more deadly the chassepot was!
the "yataghan" bayonet in chassepot rifle was inspired from forward curved yatağan blades used by Ottoman janissaries and in Franco-Prussian war, Prussians not only had superior training and leadership, but also breech loading Krupp cannons which were more accurate with a higher rate of fire compared to muzzle loading artillery of French.
@@SonsOfLorgar Yeah, that was a great result of it. When first introduced, it was the best in the world for its quick-firing abilities, but it lost that position quite quickly as higher-caliber weapons with similar characteristics appeared that could support offensives better. Still, the French give it immense importance: they even put it in a position of honor in their prime military museum.
Merci pour ce comparatif entre les deux fusils qui servirent durant la guerre Franco Prussienne en 1870. Bravo pour vos cartouches de chassepot , elles ne sont pas faciles a fabriquer et ne partent pas a tous les coups . merci encore et bravo pour vos demos. Laurent guioullier
Köszönjük ezt a videót. Jelenleg egy dokumentumfilmet írok az osztrák-porosz háborúról. Írtam egy részt a Dreyse kontra osztrák muskétáról. A videójának köszönhetően van róla egy képem. Csak így tovább!
You do a very good job mixing the history with the shooting in such interesting and competent way, sir! I really appreciate your work and wait always for the upcoming content. Thank you! Wish you only tens on range!!
This video was entertaining and informative.... thank you !! Both this rifles are giants in their time and the expose you give on them both honors them well.
@@capandball In one of your older video (Tactics and rifles of the battle of Königgrätz - Lorenz and Dreyse rifles in action), you also showed how paper cantridges were made. Did soldiers in those days have to make every single cartridge manually like you, or were these cantridges mass produced on machines? Thank you in advance for your reply.
A new video game on Steam is Grand Tactician American Civil War the developers added the ability to import the Dreyse. A division of Dreyse armed against a unit armed with just muzzle loaders is game over man.
My hot take on the Franco Prussian War was that, ignoring tactics, strategy and leadership, the French had the better infantry rifle hands down, but the Prussians had the better artillery hands down, and artillery trumped rifle fire. In a skirmish I would have preferred to be French, in a full on field engagement I would have preferred to be Prussian.
Well that might be correct but the diference was not that much in practice and in the end strategy and tactics win over a small advantage in small arms.
The context is very important to understand the conflict. France entered in war being politically divided while German coalition was federated behind Prussia. Together they outnumbered the French forces and aleady had the opportunity to "train to war" against Denmark in 1864 and Austria in 1866, before facing the French in 1870. In France Napoleon III lacked leadership and had many opponents (liberals, republicans, royalists, etc), even among his generals. This resulted in many coordination issues, distrusts and treasons from each sides. Plus, because of Napoleon's diplomatic policy, France had no reliable allies in Europe a that time.
@@francoisthailande2440 France outnumberd the Germans by half a million actually! The Germans deployed 1.4 Million troops vs over almost 2 Million on the french side. The germans however mobilized way faster and where far better in concentrating their forces. The Germans did have another Million in reserve and mobelization though they would never be deployed. While France was far from undivided it was still a singular Nation. The Germans had only lose Alliances with each ohter. Hell 5 Days before the declaration of war it was very much still a debate if the southern german nations would even honor the treatys with the Prussians. Bavaria only joined because they feared the fate of Hannover if the refused and Prussia wins. So no Germany was far from being united at the beginning or even after.
@@hannesromhild8532 No, France never outnumbered the Germans on battlefields. You are confusing, the figures from Wikipedia you are quoting are a global count of soldiers deployed during the whole conflict, which has an other signification. When the conflict stardted, because of a slower mobilization processus, French troops were clearly outnumbered. Some 265 000 soldiers fromed the Armée du Rhin face to almost 500 000 Prussian soldiers + 300 000 soldiers from the other German nations. (according Georges Soria, "La grande histoire de la commune"). Von Moltke, in "Geschichte des deutsch-französischen Krieges von 1870-71" overestimated the French forces around 640 000 soldiers, which was a mistaken count since he didn't deducted troops based in Algeria and reservists. France had 8 army corps composed of 23 infantry divisions and 6 cavalery divisions. The German troops were composed of 16 army corps with 32 infantry divisions and 8 cavalry divisions. When mobilization process was over, France disposed of 900 000 soldiers against 1.2 million of Prussian + German soldiers. (according Guy Sallat "Second Empire, de Solférino à Bazeilles"). During the battle of Sedan, naval troops (initially not intended to fought in first line) had already been deployed to balance the losses and prisoners captured after the surrending of Bazaine in Metz. Then after the defeat, the new government of Défense nationale was in the needy of men to continute war and had to mobilize all the human resources available. Lots of volunteers joined the troops, including from other countries. All of them tryed to keep up the fight from a scattered way, with failing coordination and some lacks of weapons or munitions. This explained why the final count of deployed troops is much higher for France than German coalition.
@@francoisthailande2440 So in short the germans mobilized way faster and where far better at concentrating their forces. I think we both mean the same thing. Overall (over the entire lengh of the war) the French did outnumber the Germans in deployed troops. On the frontline though france never managed to field theese troops. Also Germany could very well mobilize further troops while france was already at their limit.
you know, modern militaries are still chasing caseless ammunition, they just need to go back to 1860s rifles! XD It's insane these rifles are in such good shape
I always found it odd that the Chassepot used Rubber around the firing pin to create a tight seal, but given the fact that blackpowder of this time, while potent, did not burn as potent nor as slowly as todays modern gunpowder, though it still needed to be changed after prlonged use, I wonder how many rounds in a single testing the seal can handle before needing replacement
I enjoyed that immensely, thanks for posting. Whenever I visit The Royal Armourey in Leeds( UK). I always head to the display of the Dreyse, and the Chassepot. I find them very interesting. I have also read books on The Battle of Königgrätz and the war of 1870/71.
I have a Chassepot and I can agree with you that the cartridges aren't easy to make, one thing that makes it a little easier is to use jumbo straws instead of paper witch is getting hard to find as plastics are replaced by paper straws nowadays. I have not made a perfect cartridge yet but that is mostly because I lack a perfect bullet-mold and powder(backordered). Nice comparison video and great work!
I'm working on my first cartridges now. I have both plastic and paper jumbo straws (12mm diameter) to experiment with and just yesterday got a new Lee mold for a 45-70 405 grain hollow base boolit. I still need to get a mandrel to form the paper cap for the bottom of the cartridge, and also need to make a proper diameter base to support the paper tube while compacting the powder. I'm interested to know your methods and experience.
I have only made one cartridge and that was with the jumbo straw, bullets that came with the rifle and homemade blackpowder(less effective than store bought). With the jumbo straws i used superglue to cap it with paper at the back, the bullet was pressed in after softening the straw with a lighter and then I filled the straw up from the back before capping it.
Currently bundled up with a wool blanket and my 1868 dated Chassepot made by P. Webley & Son - how else would I enjoy the comfiest firearms channel on CZcams?
Another stupefying and informative video by capanball. I plea and hope to see a similar video about the rifles of the 1877-78 Russo-Turkish War, the Martini-Henry, Snider-Enfield, Berdan II and the Krenka.
Geoffrey Wawro, although mistaken in some points, proves a remarkable pattern in 1870-71: the french took robust but too packed and somehow weak positions with ill coordination between units, then caused tremendous casualties with their Chassepots at impressive ranges against fast advancing german company and platoon columns they deployed into skirmisher lines under 300 metres (a better range for the Dreyse); but the french were blasted away by technically superior and better handled Krupp artillery and by aggressive flanking and encirclement, possible only with superior prussian training and doctrine. That is, after an initial murderous fusilade that included the famous mitrailleuse, the french dedicated themselves to miss opportunities and flee.
Stop callin yourself "my favorite gun yt channel" it forces me to choose between you, Ian McCollum and Joerg Sprave 😭😭😭 (Jokes aside, Thank you for the awesome guns and the quality of your content, you're awesome)
@@billosby9997 It's very different, it's all about homemade, wooden, rubber bands, or airguns! Or sometimes just testing knifes... As long as it's unregulated he's got it covered 😁
Really enjoyed this video. I have a Chassepot and some day will find a Dreyse. You Chassepot cartridges look great it would be nice to see a video on how you construct them.
Needle rifles are too cool, I've been waiting for this! Much has been said for and against the reliability of both rifles (rubber seal for the MLE 66, needle for the Dreyse) and I have a feeling that perhaps Prussian soldiers didn't take as much care of the needles on their rifles as you do with yours, weapon maintenance aside a soldier has many duties and much to tend to. Effective range is always a matter of dispute, regardless of the gun, and we all know by now how seemingly perfect black powder weapons have their good days and bad days. But "Snipers at War: An Equipment and Operations History" by John Walter, page 88, mentions rowing bands of irregulars, many of them hunters, armed with Rolling Block's, Sharp's, Spencer's, Chassepot's, literally taking potshots at Prussian columns, all over central france, blending in with the landscape and avoiding pitched battle, Kentucky-rifle style. The effect that these raids had on the much dismayed Prussians were such that.. well, war crimes. In reading a free excerpt from a book about early snipers, the name of the book eludes me (it may have been the same book), all the famous black powder snipers, Hinsan and the like, were mentioned. I read a story from the Franco-Prussian war about a French sniper situated in a barn on top of a hill, reportedly getting in lethal potshots on Prussian columns. Though it was unclear exactly how far the distance was, it was apparently such that the Prussians, try as they might, were unable to retaliate with their Dreyse's. Columns being easier targets than one soldier hiding in a barn, I'd wager the distance was maybe 400-500 meters, just outside the Dreyse's effective range. In any case, again, the demoralizing effect was such that the Prussians simply blew the barn, and the "ambitious frenchman" (as the book put it) to pieces with artillery 😬
Great to see a new video! Love your channel my friend. That Dryse has quite a bit of kick no? They are both beautiful weapons. I love 19th century firearms but that Chassepot is something I’d love to own one day
oh shit this video is already legendary dreyse and chassepot a topic everyone knows and loves i remember searching and watching every vid about dreyse and chassepot i could find :D thanks for sharing!
hmm.... I wonder if Pedersoli would make one of these :) Maybe not, I think many would shy away from these when having to make the cartridges, and to be honest I can't blame them.
Thanks for sharing these rifles and their history. Just a suggestion: your shooting segments might be more interesting to watch if you used some sight and see type targets such as those made by Birchwood Casey.
Maybe also some more hunting guns (percussion double rifles, cape guns, etc.) or some special military guns like the Doppelstutzen M 1768.🤔 Especially the last gun is an absolute gem.👍🏼
Wonderful video, my friend. Thank you for your works. I would ask, is this not a re-upload from a few months ago? I could have sworn i watched this one once before
Dear Jay, yes it is. This film was originall produced for the Glory and Defeat series of the Real Time History channel as it is written in the description.
The muzzle and sight design on the Dreyse Rifle is very obviously inspired by an older French weapon - the Model 1777 Musket - which was copied by many European countries and the American Colonies. The Prussians to my knowledge never transitioned to the "muzzle loading" Rifle-Musket with the Minie style bullets like other countries, so they jumped between generations.
Lovely accent, brother. I could not for the life of me say you were hungarian if you hadnt revealed it. Now it got me thinking, what wouldve been my guess? Hmm.. Maybe romanian but thats too close to you lol. Perhaps something northern like finnish or norwegian. Anyway, I love clear speech with little/no mistakes, yet heavily pronounced accent :))
Cool video with cool info. As always. One of the best firearms channels on CZcams. More subs would be well deserved. Maybe we get to see the Werndl rifle again one of these days. Could you make a video about the LeMat revolver (maybe even about the repro)? Bet that would be cool.
The best part about the Dreyse rifle is it predates the Minié ball by almost 10 years, meaning that anyone who starts off a conversation about modern rifles with the Miniéball is dead wrong. the french always make the best of the last generation of technology.
Balle Minié is from 1855 maybe google what you're saying idiot. The French are always the first to innovate, and invented in first light machine gun, semi auto, smokeless powder, tanks, planes, cars, drones, Minitel (internet),
The French are great at inventing groundbreaking technologies… then failing to meaningfully refine most of these technologies. Look at the tanks, rifles, and planes of the French during ww2 and you can really see this effect in play.
@@ommsterlitz1805 yes and the Dreyse is from the 1830's and the dutch had a light machine-gun first. i dont know anything about there planes, and the FT light tanks where fantastic but again lived far past there service date and ended up as the worst light tanks around. couldnt tell you about french cars or civilian innovations but i'm sure the french where just so far ahead of everyone else. as for smokeless they had the worst smokeless powder rifle using an utterly outdated magazine system. again the best of the kropachek rifles, and the worst of the smokeless rifles.
@@ommsterlitz1805 also the rcs 1917 and the 1916 fedorov came out so close together that with the loss of all the research data due to the Russian civil war i don't think there is ever going to be conclusive answers as to who made the first semi-auto
the difference between these rifle is like a M1 garand compared to a M14. The difference between the dreyser and a musket. is like a the lebel and a M16
I have wanted this video forever. Take my patreon money. Also where did you get needles? I have always wanted to try to use a needlefire shotgun to hunt. A unique challenge. So many of those guns are art.
Great comparison there and lots of good history too! 👏👍 What was the cute little tool in the foreground, when you were firing the Dreyse rifle gelatine test?
It's amazing to see 2 rifles, which are the transition between muzzle-loaders and breech-holders. And can you tell about the Gras Fusile 1874 Rifle? I would love to hear about its superiority compare to the Chassepot. Thanks @capandball
Hey Capandball, w Wouldn't what would be your take about using nitrocellulose lacquer coated "flash paper to make the paper cartridge, except on the paper parches bullet, which would be waxed? hat make the cartridges stiffer, waterproof and cleaner?
I've noticed that from 3:24 you didn't wear ear protection (or maybe you wore a separate pair of plugs), but if you haven't worn them, how loud can a gunshot be? Is it frightening loud, painful, or does it numb your ears just after one shot?
Seen a needle rifle in action is quite fascinating misfires was supposed to been the downfall of the rifle but you stated you had none that's quite interesting
@@tewdogs4475 Oh having the right cartridges would make a massive difference. It's just in the fog of war, attempting to handle non-brass cartridges can lead to additional issues. Sort of like how in the muzzle loading eras, many battlefield rifles would have multiple rounds loaded into them. Because the soldier didn't realize they messed up the first loading and continued the procedure.
@@SlavicCelery multiple rounds won't happen as it won't allow a unfired round to be super imposed.....i suppose a jam would have to be cleared but that could be done laying down or behind cover....i have not seen these issues with mine
@@tewdogs4475 I am referring to a common battlefield find from the civil war. It's not uncommon. Basically they put the ball first on a round and then it's all downhill from there. I wasn't saying that would ever happen with the two rifles in the video specifically. What I'm saying is that soldiers when under stress make their own mistakes outside of design norms. A range will never fully capture that frantic energy of combat. It doesn't make it wrong, but the issues could be soldier related and not design related.
The Chassepot was clearly superior to the older Dreyse but it's not a decisive difference. so as long as its reliable and not a muzzle loader. The Chassepot superiority and only matters in cases of ranges above 200m-300m. My readings of the Franco-Prussian war suggest the Prussian Victory came from several factors: 1 Prussian Breech loading Krupp Artillery with timed air burst fuses was vastly superior to French Bronze muzzle loaders with 3 setting fuses. 2 France had a much bigger standing Army by a factor of 2 or 3 but Prussian conscript Army could be mobilized in about 2-3 weeks and then became 2 times bigger. The conscripts were actually very good. 3 Traditional Prussian "Bewegungskrieg" or "movement warfare" that evolved into blitzkrieg emphasized fast movements intended to surround an enemy and autonomy of decision making of officers (leading to rapid decentralized decision making). Officer had been Junkers who had much autonomy. 4 Probably better moral.
Where does this guy get this ammo for all these older guns like his steyr m.95. I have one myself and I have n I clue where to look even for bullet molds
In one of your older video (Tactics and rifles of the battle of Königgrätz - Lorenz and Dreyse rifles in action), you also showed how paper cantridges were made. Did soldiers in those days have to make every single cartridge manually like you, or were these cantridges mass produced on machines? Thank you in advance for your reply.
no, soldiers were not making their own cartridges, they were mass-produced at large artillery arsenals and distributed to the troops on campaign, before and also during actions. This really since the permanent army system came into force, in France e.g. from the 1670s. It is only very occasionally that troops had to make cartridges themselves, for example in sieges when they ran out of ammo, but had still some powder and balls, or in rading expeditions.
Muy buen video siempre me intereso esos fusiles de cerrojo y cartuchos de papel con el fulminante en la base de la bala. Por eso los percutores debian ser agujas finas para atravesar el cartucho y percutar el fulminante. Lastima no mostraste muy bien los cartuchos. Te sugiero un video sobre el fusil frances de avancarga MINIE II. Saludos desde Uruguay.
People often forget how incredibly fast technology was changing in the late 1800s. A rifle, ship, or cannon that was state-of-the-art when it was designed would be obsolete within 15 years.
True, it's wild to see it. This is how CSA forts were taken over by the Union during the civil war, the southern troops took over forts with "old" smoothbore cannons that were 20 years old and were easily outgunned by attacking Union forces with new rifled barrel artillery, so they could shoot at the CSA fort while being way out of range of the souths guns.
still true happening that fast.
There’s nothing incredible about it, firearms was still at its infancy back then, there were still a lot of room for improvement. Firearm ammunition technology practically hasn’t changed singe the late 19th century, and just like the smart phones, “people forget how incredibly fast was changing in the 2000s”, a phone that was state of the art when it was designed would be obsolete within a year if not months, new things were constantly added! Looking at phones in 2020, there is hardly any differences in terms of functionality between generations as compared to the smart phones generations that just came out in the first few years.
@@argylewarrior1not when it comes to small arms. They basically plateaued during 60s
Contrast that with sluggish evolution in the 16th-18th.
Nice looking Chassepot cartridges 😉
In my experience the upgraded Beck bolt face on a Dreyse produces a gas seal just as good as the Chassepot.
The only way to do it: czcams.com/video/iahThVlF7QI/video.html :) Making them is a pain in the... :)
@@capandball Have you seen my new "express" reloading method?
@@thebotrchap Not yet, please share the video link here! by the way: the next film will be the mad minute with the Wänzl rifle dedicated to you and Britishmuzzleloader.
@@capandball You have to follow the breadcrumbs here: czcams.com/video/aSx1O8y0ZQY/video.html
Props to cap and ball for making the 100% original style cartridge for the chassepot instead of making the newer repro style (wich is way easier and needed less material)
Hi 👋
I can't be the only one who gets excited when there's a new cap and ball video, time to grab a beer and snacks and settle in! I'm amazed by how much more deadly the chassepot was!
France: "We have the Chassepot and the Mitrailleuse, the Boche stand no chance!"
North German Confederation + Southern Allies: "We have Krupp!!"
Funny how that played 0 role in their victory
@@me67galaxylifeWhich of the two played 0 role in the victory?
I didn't realize it until you said it but yea, this is my favorite gun channel on CZcams
:)
the "yataghan" bayonet in chassepot rifle was inspired from forward curved yatağan blades used by Ottoman janissaries and in Franco-Prussian war, Prussians not only had superior training and leadership, but also breech loading Krupp cannons which were more accurate with a higher rate of fire compared to muzzle loading artillery of French.
Which is why the French developed their fast firing 75mm field gun as quickly as possible after that crushing defeat.
The first victim of every war is TRUTH. Also in 1870/71.
@@SonsOfLorgar Yeah, that was a great result of it. When first introduced, it was the best in the world for its quick-firing abilities, but it lost that position quite quickly as higher-caliber weapons with similar characteristics appeared that could support offensives better. Still, the French give it immense importance: they even put it in a position of honor in their prime military museum.
I was just looking for the "prussian artillery"-myth.
@@FantadiRienzo myth? Prussian artillery was pretty advanced and the general concept of a breech loading gun hasn't changed too much since then.
I so wish I could own a Chassepot. Absolutely love French rifles and its firearms history
keep looking...its what happened to me.....
I own an original one, complete with its scaring bayonet, and it is really a fine weapon! Though I never fired it...
Merci pour ce comparatif entre les deux fusils qui servirent durant la guerre Franco Prussienne en 1870. Bravo pour vos cartouches de chassepot , elles ne sont pas faciles a fabriquer et ne partent pas a tous les coups . merci encore et bravo pour vos demos. Laurent guioullier
Köszönjük ezt a videót. Jelenleg egy dokumentumfilmet írok az osztrák-porosz háborúról. Írtam egy részt a Dreyse kontra osztrák muskétáról. A videójának köszönhetően van róla egy képem. Csak így tovább!
i really like how you mix in operation footage with your narration. it keeps the video moving fluidly and interesting. great content!
I appreciate the time and effort you put into these demonstrations. Thank you again
You do a very good job mixing the history with the shooting in such interesting and competent way, sir! I really appreciate your work and wait always for the upcoming content. Thank you!
Wish you only tens on range!!
This video was entertaining and informative.... thank you !! Both this rifles are giants in their time and the expose you give on them both honors them well.
Many thanks!
@@capandball In one of your older video (Tactics and rifles of the battle of Königgrätz - Lorenz and Dreyse rifles in action), you also showed how paper cantridges were made. Did soldiers in those days have to make every single cartridge manually like you, or were these cantridges mass produced on machines?
Thank you in advance for your reply.
Thank you for keeping History alive.
HOW HAVE I NOT SEEN THIS CHANNEL BEFORE??
A new video game on Steam is Grand Tactician American Civil War the developers added the ability to import the Dreyse. A division of Dreyse armed against a unit armed with just muzzle loaders is game over man.
Great video as usual! The difference in gas sealing between the two rifles is very visible in the slow-motion shots.
My hot take on the Franco Prussian War was that, ignoring tactics, strategy and leadership, the French had the better infantry rifle hands down, but the Prussians had the better artillery hands down, and artillery trumped rifle fire.
In a skirmish I would have preferred to be French, in a full on field engagement I would have preferred to be Prussian.
Well that might be correct but the diference was not that much in practice and in the end strategy and tactics win over a small advantage in small arms.
The context is very important to understand the conflict. France entered in war being politically divided while German coalition was federated behind Prussia. Together they outnumbered the French forces and aleady had the opportunity to "train to war" against Denmark in 1864 and Austria in 1866, before facing the French in 1870.
In France Napoleon III lacked leadership and had many opponents (liberals, republicans, royalists, etc), even among his generals. This resulted in many coordination issues, distrusts and treasons from each sides. Plus, because of Napoleon's diplomatic policy, France had no reliable allies in Europe a that time.
@@francoisthailande2440 France outnumberd the Germans by half a million actually! The Germans deployed 1.4 Million troops vs over almost 2 Million on the french side. The germans however mobilized way faster and where far better in concentrating their forces. The Germans did have another Million in reserve and mobelization though they would never be deployed.
While France was far from undivided it was still a singular Nation. The Germans had only lose Alliances with each ohter. Hell 5 Days before the declaration of war it was very much still a debate if the southern german nations would even honor the treatys with the Prussians. Bavaria only joined because they feared the fate of Hannover if the refused and Prussia wins. So no Germany was far from being united at the beginning or even after.
@@hannesromhild8532 No, France never outnumbered the Germans on battlefields. You are confusing, the figures from Wikipedia you are quoting are a global count of soldiers deployed during the whole conflict, which has an other signification.
When the conflict stardted, because of a slower mobilization processus, French troops were clearly outnumbered. Some 265 000 soldiers fromed the Armée du Rhin face to almost 500 000 Prussian soldiers + 300 000 soldiers from the other German nations. (according Georges Soria, "La grande histoire de la commune").
Von Moltke, in "Geschichte des deutsch-französischen Krieges von 1870-71" overestimated the French forces around 640 000 soldiers, which was a mistaken count since he didn't deducted troops based in Algeria and reservists.
France had 8 army corps composed of 23 infantry divisions and 6 cavalery divisions. The German troops were composed of 16 army corps with 32 infantry divisions and 8 cavalry divisions.
When mobilization process was over, France disposed of 900 000 soldiers against 1.2 million of Prussian + German soldiers. (according
Guy Sallat "Second Empire, de Solférino à Bazeilles").
During the battle of Sedan, naval troops (initially not intended to fought in first line) had already been deployed to balance the losses and prisoners captured after the surrending of Bazaine in Metz. Then after the defeat, the new government of Défense nationale was in the needy of men to continute war and had to mobilize all the human resources available. Lots of volunteers joined the troops, including from other countries. All of them tryed to keep up the fight from a scattered way, with failing coordination and some lacks of weapons or munitions. This explained why the final count of deployed troops is much higher for France than German coalition.
@@francoisthailande2440 So in short the germans mobilized way faster and where far better at concentrating their forces. I think we both mean the same thing. Overall (over the entire lengh of the war) the French did outnumber the Germans in deployed troops. On the frontline though france never managed to field theese troops. Also Germany could very well mobilize further troops while france was already at their limit.
Just came here from the latest Real Time History episode on the Franco-Prussian War. Always nice to have some synchronicity on the 'tube
you know, modern militaries are still chasing caseless ammunition, they just need to go back to 1860s rifles! XD
It's insane these rifles are in such good shape
I always found it odd that the Chassepot used Rubber around the firing pin to create a tight seal, but given the fact that blackpowder of this time, while potent, did not burn as potent nor as slowly as todays modern gunpowder, though it still needed to be changed after prlonged use, I wonder how many rounds in a single testing the seal can handle before needing replacement
I enjoyed that immensely, thanks for posting. Whenever I visit The Royal Armourey in Leeds( UK). I always head to the display of the Dreyse, and the Chassepot. I find them very interesting. I have also read books on The Battle of Königgrätz and the war of 1870/71.
I have a Chassepot and I can agree with you that the cartridges aren't easy to make, one thing that makes it a little easier is to use jumbo straws instead of paper witch is getting hard to find as plastics are replaced by paper straws nowadays. I have not made a perfect cartridge yet but that is mostly because I lack a perfect bullet-mold and powder(backordered).
Nice comparison video and great work!
I'm working on my first cartridges now. I have both plastic and paper jumbo straws (12mm diameter) to experiment with and just yesterday got a new Lee mold for a 45-70 405 grain hollow base boolit. I still need to get a mandrel to form the paper cap for the bottom of the cartridge, and also need to make a proper diameter base to support the paper tube while compacting the powder. I'm interested to know your methods and experience.
I have only made one cartridge and that was with the jumbo straw, bullets that came with the rifle and homemade blackpowder(less effective than store bought).
With the jumbo straws i used superglue to cap it with paper at the back, the bullet was pressed in after softening the straw with a lighter and then I filled the straw up from the back before capping it.
Currently bundled up with a wool blanket and my 1868 dated Chassepot made by P. Webley & Son - how else would I enjoy the comfiest firearms channel on CZcams?
Another stupefying and informative video by capanball. I plea and hope to see a similar video about the rifles of the 1877-78 Russo-Turkish War, the Martini-Henry, Snider-Enfield, Berdan II and the Krenka.
Breach-loading artillery also increases your chances of victory.
Definitely.
I have never seen a needle fire rifle. They look old-school and modern at the same time.
Exactly
This segment you did for Real Time History is how I found your channel!
Geoffrey Wawro, although mistaken in some points, proves a remarkable pattern in 1870-71: the french took robust but too packed and somehow weak positions with ill coordination between units, then caused tremendous casualties with their Chassepots at impressive ranges against fast advancing german company and platoon columns they deployed into skirmisher lines under 300 metres (a better range for the Dreyse); but the french were blasted away by technically superior and better handled Krupp artillery and by aggressive flanking and encirclement, possible only with superior prussian training and doctrine.
That is, after an initial murderous fusilade that included the famous mitrailleuse, the french dedicated themselves to miss opportunities and flee.
Stop callin yourself "my favorite gun yt channel" it forces me to choose between you, Ian McCollum and Joerg Sprave 😭😭😭
(Jokes aside, Thank you for the awesome guns and the quality of your content, you're awesome)
I'm not familiar with Joerg Sprave. I'll look him up.
@@billosby9997 It's very different, it's all about homemade, wooden, rubber bands, or airguns! Or sometimes just testing knifes... As long as it's unregulated he's got it covered 😁
Really enjoyed this video. I have a Chassepot and some day will find a Dreyse. You Chassepot cartridges look great it would be nice to see a video on how you construct them.
Needle rifles are too cool, I've been waiting for this!
Much has been said for and against the reliability of both rifles (rubber seal for the MLE 66, needle for the Dreyse) and I have a feeling that perhaps Prussian soldiers didn't take as much care of the needles on their rifles as you do with yours, weapon maintenance aside a soldier has many duties and much to tend to.
Effective range is always a matter of dispute, regardless of the gun, and we all know by now how seemingly perfect black powder weapons have their good days and bad days.
But "Snipers at War: An Equipment and Operations History" by John Walter, page 88, mentions rowing bands of irregulars, many of them hunters, armed with Rolling Block's, Sharp's, Spencer's, Chassepot's, literally taking potshots at Prussian columns, all over central france, blending in with the landscape and avoiding pitched battle, Kentucky-rifle style.
The effect that these raids had on the much dismayed Prussians were such that.. well, war crimes.
In reading a free excerpt from a book about early snipers, the name of the book eludes me (it may have been the same book), all the famous black powder snipers, Hinsan and the like, were mentioned.
I read a story from the Franco-Prussian war about a French sniper situated in a barn on top of a hill, reportedly getting in lethal potshots on Prussian columns.
Though it was unclear exactly how far the distance was, it was apparently such that the Prussians, try as they might, were unable to retaliate with their Dreyse's.
Columns being easier targets than one soldier hiding in a barn, I'd wager the distance was maybe 400-500 meters, just outside the Dreyse's effective range.
In any case, again, the demoralizing effect was such that the Prussians simply blew the barn, and the "ambitious frenchman" (as the book put it) to pieces with artillery 😬
Great to see a new video! Love your channel my friend. That Dryse has quite a bit of kick no? They are both beautiful weapons. I love 19th century firearms but that Chassepot is something I’d love to own one day
oh shit this video is already legendary
dreyse and chassepot a topic everyone knows and loves
i remember searching and watching every vid about dreyse and chassepot i could find :D
thanks for sharing!
Obscure but important weapon in the history of firearms.
Well done, wonderful overview of the two different rifles.
hmm.... I wonder if Pedersoli would make one of these :) Maybe not, I think many would shy away from these when having to make the cartridges, and to be honest I can't blame them.
Thanks for sharing these rifles and their history. Just a suggestion: your shooting segments might be more interesting to watch if you used some sight and see type targets such as those made by Birchwood Casey.
Will you consider presenting other iconic European rifles such as the Martini, Beaumont, Vetterli, Berdan?
Maybe also some more hunting guns (percussion double rifles, cape guns, etc.) or some special military guns like the Doppelstutzen M 1768.🤔
Especially the last gun is an absolute gem.👍🏼
Love this channel . Love the Hunglish language. Love those "old man caps " .
This channel has class.
Thanks from Sweden .
Good stuff, this was something I didn't know anything about and it was very interesting. Well done, as always.
Another great video. Its like the Franco-Prussian war all over again.
Wonderful video, my friend. Thank you for your works. I would ask, is this not a re-upload from a few months ago? I could have sworn i watched this one once before
Dear Jay, yes it is. This film was originall produced for the Glory and Defeat series of the Real Time History channel as it is written in the description.
@@capandballAhh, i remember it now. Right on man! Thank you for answering my question so quickly. Best luck in your future works. Cheers!
Excellente explication de la différence des deux fusils et qu'il ne suffit pas d'avoir de meilleures armes pour gagner! Thank you!
I can see you are well educated and know exactly what are you talking about, I like that:))
Thank you for teaching how to pronounce Chassepot.
Finally! A French rifle 🇲🇫🇲🇫
Hi Ian
Yet another awesome video of two iconic firearms! Thank you very much!
Can you do a tutorial on how to make the Chassepot cartridges?
Thank you for the history lesson
Hi from Ireland 🇮🇪, great show thanks
The muzzle and sight design on the Dreyse Rifle is very obviously inspired by an older French weapon - the Model 1777 Musket - which was copied by many European countries and the American Colonies. The Prussians to my knowledge never transitioned to the "muzzle loading" Rifle-Musket with the Minie style bullets like other countries, so they jumped between generations.
Marvelous weather you're enjoying in Hungary. Here in Transylvania it's negative eleven and it snowed :)
:) I had a few summer clips in the drawer.
10:36 my god ! Now i understand the prussians fear and why they used there artillery at maximum and avoided to face the Chassepot !
That really had some energy!
Btw the civil war stuff is a bit late for my interests.
Do you sell shirts, I searched the site but foumd nothing.
What a fantastic youtube channel my friend, so accurate, your impresions. Many thanks.
That's an excellent video. You'll have to take those hunting if the accuracy is there.
You should get in contact with Garand Thumb and have these shot at the ballistics gelatin dummy.
Hi...Gewehr 88 presentation will?
Thanks.
Lovely accent, brother. I could not for the life of me say you were hungarian if you hadnt revealed it. Now it got me thinking, what wouldve been my guess? Hmm.. Maybe romanian but thats too close to you lol. Perhaps something northern like finnish or norwegian. Anyway, I love clear speech with little/no mistakes, yet heavily pronounced accent :))
Cool video with cool info. As always. One of the best firearms channels on CZcams. More subs would be well deserved.
Maybe we get to see the Werndl rifle again one of these days.
Could you make a video about the LeMat revolver (maybe even about the repro)? Bet that would be cool.
The best part about the Dreyse rifle is it predates the Minié ball by almost 10 years, meaning that anyone who starts off a conversation about modern rifles with the Miniéball is dead wrong. the french always make the best of the last generation of technology.
"Always"? You forget groundbreaking guns like the RSC1917 or the FAMAS
Balle Minié is from 1855 maybe google what you're saying idiot. The French are always the first to innovate, and invented in first light machine gun, semi auto, smokeless powder, tanks, planes, cars, drones, Minitel (internet),
The French are great at inventing groundbreaking technologies… then failing to meaningfully refine most of these technologies. Look at the tanks, rifles, and planes of the French during ww2 and you can really see this effect in play.
@@ommsterlitz1805 yes and the Dreyse is from the 1830's and the dutch had a light machine-gun first. i dont know anything about there planes, and the FT light tanks where fantastic but again lived far past there service date and ended up as the worst light tanks around. couldnt tell you about french cars or civilian innovations but i'm sure the french where just so far ahead of everyone else. as for smokeless they had the worst smokeless powder rifle using an utterly outdated magazine system. again the best of the kropachek rifles, and the worst of the smokeless rifles.
@@ommsterlitz1805 also the rcs 1917 and the 1916 fedorov came out so close together that with the loss of all the research data due to the Russian civil war i don't think there is ever going to be conclusive answers as to who made the first semi-auto
Greeting in US，I have one chassepot 1874 Gras rifle which use 11x59R metallic ammo. That’s good.
so mayn new videos in such a short time :D what a pleassure
This episode was already broadcasted on The Real Time history channel I believe.
the difference between these rifle is like a M1 garand compared to a M14. The difference between the dreyser and a musket. is like a the lebel and a M16
A good glass of Wine . A great evening..... Thanks for your videos.
Impressive as always.
Fantastic video, I'd love to see an in depth video on the making of the chassepot cartridges!
This is the method I followed. An Excellent presentation from Bloke on the Range: czcams.com/video/iahThVlF7QI/video.html
Un deleite ver éste tipo de armas y más aún en funcionamiento verdaderos fierros. Saludos desde Argentina 👍👍🥂
I want that Hungarian model so badly.
Not that I have the funds, but what do these cost?
Any repros?
No repro unfortunately, but there are many Chassepots in good woring order at cca 1000 EUR. The Dreyse is a more expensive choice.
Thanks for sharing
I like how the Chassepot rifle is a lot better looking than the bulky Dreyse.
Think I have a Yataghan bayonet that I think fits the Chassepot. I could be wrong, but still... very schweet.
I have wanted this video forever. Take my patreon money.
Also where did you get needles? I have always wanted to try to use a needlefire shotgun to hunt. A unique challenge. So many of those guns are art.
Needles can be made easily. The needle itself can be string of the piano.
@@capandball thanks!!!
Strange thing. 13 Jan 2022. Sunny day ? Isn't it ?
Great comparison there and lots of good history too! 👏👍 What was the cute little tool in the foreground, when you were firing the Dreyse rifle gelatine test?
If the Chassepot/s primer was in the base, why did it need such a long needle, then!?
I wonder if you made a special kind of paper for the chassepot that would burn quicker if it would help with the fouling
No, it is normal wrapping paper. I don't think it completely burns. The residue leaves thru the muzzle.
Could you use non -black powder in the chassepot and avoid getting black fowling in the rifle?
It's amazing to see 2 rifles, which are the transition between muzzle-loaders and breech-holders. And can you tell about the Gras Fusile 1874 Rifle? I would love to hear about its superiority compare to the Chassepot. Thanks @capandball
They ARE breech loaders
@@borkwoof696 I mean, it's the start of the breech-loaders. Those are the end of the muzzle-loaders era
Hey Capandball, w Wouldn't what would be your take about using nitrocellulose lacquer coated "flash paper to make the paper cartridge, except on the paper parches bullet, which would be waxed? hat make the cartridges stiffer, waterproof and cleaner?
I've noticed that from 3:24 you didn't wear ear protection (or maybe you wore a separate pair of plugs), but if you haven't worn them, how loud can a gunshot be? Is it frightening loud, painful, or does it numb your ears just after one shot?
Can someone do a step by step vide on making the ammunition?
Seen a needle rifle in action is quite fascinating misfires was supposed to been the downfall of the rifle but you stated you had none that's quite interesting
Well range vs battlefield could explain that
@@SlavicCelery its all in the reloading.....took me 2 months before i got it right......then all was good
@@tewdogs4475 Oh having the right cartridges would make a massive difference. It's just in the fog of war, attempting to handle non-brass cartridges can lead to additional issues.
Sort of like how in the muzzle loading eras, many battlefield rifles would have multiple rounds loaded into them. Because the soldier didn't realize they messed up the first loading and continued the procedure.
@@SlavicCelery multiple rounds won't happen as it won't allow a unfired round to be super imposed.....i suppose a jam would have to be cleared but that could be done laying down or behind cover....i have not seen these issues with mine
@@tewdogs4475 I am referring to a common battlefield find from the civil war. It's not uncommon. Basically they put the ball first on a round and then it's all downhill from there.
I wasn't saying that would ever happen with the two rifles in the video specifically. What I'm saying is that soldiers when under stress make their own mistakes outside of design norms.
A range will never fully capture that frantic energy of combat. It doesn't make it wrong, but the issues could be soldier related and not design related.
Hello :)
Congrats to 200k sub. ;) and thanks for another cool video :)
The Chassepot was clearly superior to the older Dreyse but it's not a decisive difference. so as long as its reliable and not a muzzle loader. The Chassepot superiority and only matters in cases of ranges above 200m-300m. My readings of the Franco-Prussian war suggest the Prussian Victory came from several factors:
1 Prussian Breech loading Krupp Artillery with timed air burst fuses was vastly superior to French Bronze muzzle loaders with 3 setting fuses.
2 France had a much bigger standing Army by a factor of 2 or 3 but Prussian conscript Army could be mobilized in about 2-3 weeks and then became 2 times bigger. The conscripts were actually very good.
3 Traditional Prussian "Bewegungskrieg" or "movement warfare" that evolved into blitzkrieg emphasized fast movements intended to surround an enemy and autonomy of decision making of officers (leading to rapid decentralized decision making). Officer had been Junkers who had much autonomy.
4 Probably better moral.
love the variety of weapons. please use ear protection.
Where does this guy get this ammo for all these older guns like his steyr m.95. I have one myself and I have n I clue where to look even for bullet molds
Thank you for the knowledge!
In one of your older video (Tactics and rifles of the battle of Königgrätz - Lorenz and Dreyse rifles in action), you also showed how paper cantridges were made. Did soldiers in those days have to make every single cartridge manually like you, or were these cantridges mass produced on machines?
Thank you in advance for your reply.
no, soldiers were not making their own cartridges, they were mass-produced at large artillery arsenals and distributed to the troops on campaign, before and also during actions. This really since the permanent army system came into force, in France e.g. from the 1670s. It is only very occasionally that troops had to make cartridges themselves, for example in sieges when they ran out of ammo, but had still some powder and balls, or in rading expeditions.
I've been waiting for a long time. Finally it happens
I wouldn’t like those pointing at my head while sitting there talking to a camera lol
thank you i really enjoy some good history totally enjoyable
took me awhile to figure out how to load for the chassepot......maybe you could show us????
Great video…. But the earmuffs aren’t much good unless you pull them down 😂
Thanks again
No thank you for the history it's worth every cent
Any chance for a vid on how to make the cartridges?
Muy buen video siempre me intereso esos fusiles de cerrojo y cartuchos de papel con el fulminante en la base de la bala. Por eso los percutores debian ser agujas finas para atravesar el cartucho y percutar el fulminante. Lastima no mostraste muy bien los cartuchos. Te sugiero un video sobre el fusil frances de avancarga MINIE II. Saludos desde Uruguay.