Manton - Master Gun Maker
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- čas přidán 22. 10. 2020
- Joseph Manton is considered the king of English gun makers. His many inventions and quality of work, changed the way sporting guns were made forever. Manton guns are still sought after, and can fetch huge sums of money on the open market.
I am a builder of flintlock weapons, particularly from about 1740-1820. Currently working on a reproduction of a German Jaeger (Hunter) rifle from about 1745. Really enjoy this article about Manton, who really had a lot to do with improvements and fineness. Thanks for preparing and showing it.
You're welcome, thank you
He Dear...
Can you talk to me in your free time? I have some necessary questions as I am going through the stage of building a rifle for my 75-year-old grandfather He is a fan of musket rifles, but unfortunately, this type of rifle is not found in our country, so I decided to make it myself.
And I brought English walnut, wood treatment materials, iron oxidation materials, glaze materials, and everything And I followed several clips on CZcams of the makers of musket rifles (gunsmith vid ) I faced only one problem, is closing the back of the barrel, so I searched the Internet for ways to close the barrel. I found the breech plug method, but I searched more about closing the barrel with a breech plug. Unfortunately, I found many forums warning against this method, and some say 200 shots max And this thing made me feel bad about designing the rifle for my grandfather, so I stopped working
To sum up all of my words - is closing the barrel with a (breech plug) safe and reliable? I am very afraid, please help me, I am very hesitant and I apologize for the long wait and thank you in advance
@@user-bs4lj2to5e Thank you for your question . I have to say that I am not in any way, a gunsmith so can't really advise. I am a producer and have no knowledge of safe working pressures for firarms. I think if you contacted a gun maker they would be able to help.
I wasn't sure if the video was going to feel too long to watch. Well, it felt like it was only a few minutes long and left me wanting to learn more about this master craftsman and engineer. Well done.
There's a gunsmith in Pr. George, BC, that makes guns of Manton's quality. I had the honour of being taught a lot while I roomed with him one winter. He spoke highly of Manton even in the 70's. His gunlocks were the best one could find and imitations of them are still being made. One of the rifles I have always wanted would be an American long rifle with a Manton lock.
Great documentary, thanks for posting
Lovley and Charming, thank you for sharing this with us..
As a horologist and machinist, I found the small section where he created a clock interesting. That same clock in the video was another English clockmaker's creation, the H1, by John Harrison. Another man who desperately tried to help his own country of England, and for nearly 40 years was screwed over and never awarded his recognition for solving the longitude calculation problem. England has a thing for shitting on and impoverishing brilliant people
I think you are right. But it seems to be the M O for governments worldwide . Thank you for your comment.
A well made and informative documentary covering the history of firearms technology and demonstrated by experts.
outstanding video, much appreciated,
Great video, thanks.
Outstanding video
Well done!
That was a series of very interesting innovations and you were able to find an interesting character to hang the story on.
I wonder what problems he thought of but could not find a way round.
Fascinating! I'd never heard of this before. Smart Chap!
Fascinating!!
Best Documentary I've seen in a very long time thank you most interesting 😁😁👍👍
That's a mighty quick flintlock.
I own several and some are fairly quick if loaded properly.
I see several things that are slightly different than most flintlocks made today.
Used to go shooting in 1980s never realised or heard of this father of the gunworld what a remarkable passionate guy and yet to die as he did a pauper. Terrible.
It is far too common that innovators suffer for their visions.
At 6:19 Mr. Winks calls a screwdriver a turnscrew in the gunsmithing business. Gotta love it! I noticed that his turnscrew has a very long angle ground on it which, functions similar to the hollow ground screwdrivers I custom make for specific screws.
in french "tournevis" is the litteral translation of turnscrew
The profiles of such turnscews / adapted screwdrivers would require a higher grade of steel than regular shaped screwdrivers, would they not?
Or have I picked up on a different profile?
As a Manton I approve of this 👍🏻
My father and I make flintlock rifles and smoothbores. while growing up, He made a bench copy of one. it includes a smooth barrel and a rifled barrel. He even made the box. the only parts purchased were the barrels. he made the lock 100% from scratch. I'll inherit it as well.
Hang On!! A gun can cost £50,000, but a 200yr old Manton original is valued at £10,000? Something wrong with this picture. Surely a 200yr old gun by a master Craftsman would cost at least £100,000.
I take your point, but something is only worth what someone is willing to pay
You are quite right, you will not find a Manton for as little as £10,000.
So Nice guns
This year's (2021) Grand American Trap Shoot will be held in July at Sparta Illinois the firing line at the facility is 3 1/2 miles long.
Should be loud and I hope, good clean fun.
The trees starting to be useful for shade out there? Haven't been since the first 3 miserable years, still baffles me they'd move it to BFE in the hottest week of august...
@@brunsy1990 That is to see how well you can hold your concentration.
Manton was the Rembrant of gunmakers.
I'm inclined to agree
Very good video on the old master of firearms of the past. This was a sad story about how Manton died! Penniless and broken by the government of his country with whom he had given so much! Typical government!
Amazing man , by today's standards a " deplorable " in America for his unwillingness to grovel to the King's Military. A true son of liberty , giving safety and enjoyment to his customers and I imagine many a Coachman , traveling through dark whet nights guarding their passengers. Very good history I knew nothing about.
My older cousin owned many Damascus 12 Gauge double shot guns. Beautiful weapons.
As an avid muzzleloader shooter there is noticable lock time on a flintlock weapon a percussion gun is lower but still there it isn't till the self contained metallic cartage that it pretty much goes away unless you have bad ammo then you can still get a click bang of the firing pin hitting the primer and the cartage detonation
I agree with you. I have been shooting muzzleloading pistols, rifles, and smoothbore guns since the age of 12. Cap lock and flintlock. The Flintlock is my favorite. I am now 75. I have a custom-made flintlock that is a 68 gauge Fowler as my favorite gun. I use it to hunt dove, grouse Bob WHites, and other small game birds. This Fowler is a very beautiful gun that will now go to my oldest son after I pass! What do you shoot? And do you have a favorite firearm?
It nocks a fiver off the value of the gun when he shoots it, but the value of the pleasure of shooting it is immeasurable.
Well I never!?!! I always wondered where the phrase "Flash in the pan" came from! We learn something new every day !
he was a marvellous gunsmith used to talk to Arthur Harvey Weston S Mare who was very knowledgeable on guns .
Great video... thank you.... of great interest to me down here in New Zealand... I do get some very old guns turn up for work on them. A lot of gun smiths won't work on them; after all, many of the really old ones had non standard threads etc, and were hand made "one offs". You can' buy a mainspring for a flintlock made 200 years ago, and broken springs are not that unusual in such old guns... their spring steel did tend to get brittle with age. Many will not tackle the forging of springs, but the principles are fairly simple, it just need care and a feel for the material. Many of the low priced 'trade guns' had pretty spotty quality of steel in the locks, and need new ones made. I enjoy such work and being retired now, my time is perhaps less expensive that if I ran a commercial business.
Seeing the quality of Manton's work, and indeed that of his apprentices and those that they in turned trained, is an inspiration. Most cannot pay the price of the many hours put into such work, of which most of us would be hard put to match or even closely approach..... but we do our best... :)
Thank you for your comment and for sharing your experience.
A gun making workshop in London?
That a modern paradox.
It is not difficult to own a shotgun or hunting rifle in the UK, despite what you believe.
New gun £50K. Original Manton, still serviceable £10K. I know what I'd have.
Maxim was the one who made money.
I bet an apprenticeship under Manton was hard work
I think all apprenticeships were tough in those days. Thank you for your comment
Bloke in red has eaten quite a few pigeons.
Am I the first to make comment? What an HONOR! “Ach du lieber, mein schatz”!! OUTSTANDING EDUCATIONAL VIDEO!!! Wish there would have been many more CLOSE UP SHOTS of Manton’s guns (or “replicas”!) & designs!!! As a retired technical illustrator, wish I could have seen some of his drawings. How did he make his drawings? How many men did he employ to help him make his guns? I enjoy pistols the most, & would have loved to have seen many of his pistols. Are any of his guns in replica made today (Pedersoli?), maybe sold by Dixie Gun Works in U.S.A.? At 81, how I’d love to afford to buy a replica pistol in a large caliber, rifled or smoothbor, before I die!!! “Gesundheit” und pass da “tea & trumpets” poleaze!
Hi. Thank you for your kind words. Indeed, there is so much more that could have been included and believe me, the detail you mention was filmed. However, with a set time allowed, in order to fit in with a broadcast time slot, it is always a compromise on what to include.
I would appreciate it if you spread the word on this programme. All the best
He also took command of quite a few pies.
What a good thing they did telling this story.
Thank you
very interesting
It is truly astonishing that I didn't hear about this man until this documentary many hail the likes of John Moses Browning or Samuel Colt as some of the greatest minds in firearms design but none of their work would of got off the ground if it wasn't for the dedicated and highly skilled gunsmiths who could turn their crude designs into beautiful working representations of that idea and whos' masters were inspired by their masters and so forth back to this under rated gentleman. Modern guns are made in the 1000s , masterpieces are crafted, almost each and every one unique to the person who commissioned it.
who knew alan partridge knew so much about guns.
The clue is in the name.
At around 15:10 you describe “white hot metal shards igniting the powder”. So why use a flint? Did the frizzens wear out and need replacing? Can anyone clarify this please
And at 23:30 a misfire requires a new flint.
@@patrickbarrett5650 Not always.. a blunt flint can be sharpened (a bit!)by tapping the top face.. Flint is very hard and naturally produces a sharp edge. The flint edge is hard enough to strip off a shard of steel from the frizzen. The friction involved heats the shard to the point it burns. Frizzens did wear out and were either replaced or a new piece of steel was let into the face. Some frizzens were made from iron and then case hardened to produce a layer of steel on the surface. These need to be be re-case hardened at intervals.
In the 18th and 19th C there were very few materials about that were harder than steel. Flint was one of the few naturally occuring hard materials that was cheap and easily obtained at the time. Many of the Napolionic forts on the south coast of England were faced with flint as a form of armour plating.
@@felixthecat265 Thank you for replying, you have really cleared that up for me. I have come across flint walls but I never realised those properties were involved. Thank you for taking the time.
it's like killing something with a Rembrandt.
24:15 Brilliant.
What amazes me is that they get the dogs to use earplugs!
He sued the government what an American thing to do, too bad it was in a country that did not understand justice for all at the time.
Too bad Manton did not move to America out of offense.
Hail to the king baby
This Documentary was part of series including a ship builder a castle maker and horse breeder from what I remember do anyone know where to see the others. I have been looking for years this is the first one I found
Hi Amy. You are right, it was part of a series. I was only contracted to produce this one. It was a ten part series which I think was called , "The Masters". Like you, I have not been able to find the others. Thank you for your comment though.
Thank you for quick response. I loved the series and saw a few times on cable maybe history or A&E in the states about 10-15 years ago on Saturday mornings. This one was a favorite.
Can you still legally buy a/o own a black powder gun in GB today?
Yes you can. There are many clubs that enjoy muzzle loading and black powder guns.
👌🏼
Holland was apprentice to Manton?
So I was under the impression that it was the Americans who developed the rifles cannon if not then they prefected the weapons with the iron parrot gun as bronze cannons rifling wore out quickly
It was Manton that worked out the advantage of rifling a barrel and invented the machine to do it. Many other smiths took the idea and did indeed improve on it.
Holland was never an apprentice of Manton please correct.
1:34. I'll take one in 7.62, regulated by Bisley with the rear aperture sights please.
I think you mean "regulated by Fultons of Bisley" Bisley is a rifle range and the home of the (original!) NRA.
My ancestor
Very cool.
Old Britian: "My gun is far superior than your rabble roust of a walking cane!"
Modern Britian: "Oi mate yew got a loicense for that knoife?"
Enough with them negative vibes!
Britain.
In Britain you're allowed a gun so long as you wear a top hat.
@@jpaulc441 Jolly Good
@@hunterbidensschooldumpster9031 Always wit da Negative Waves Moriarty!
I go with quality workmanship first then cost comes secondary.
There's diminishing value with guns as with anything. After the 1 to 2 grand point you're waiting money
Where does Holland & Holland stand with firearms starting out from
£ 2,000 - £ 5,000, and up ?
Where shall we leave it then ?
Flawless ? No Englishman has ever pulled that one off.
Interesting user name, same as my grandfather who fought in Malta.
Maybe he died poor but his name will always be remembered. That's worth more than all the money in the world
maybe for a narcissist i would rather be able to feed my family and pay my bills while im alive. . dont really think it matters who remembers your name long after youre dead
@@00jamiejohnson00 well if you reckon he was a narcissist then i must also be one for supporting his beliefs?
Thanks for the compliment👍👍👍👏👏👏!!!!!
just because you can't see the priming go off on a modern gun, doesn't mean there isn't a delay... There is always a delay. Once the sear disengages the firing mechanism, it has to move in order to ignite the priming, then the priming has to ignite, and that heat/pressure has to ignite the main charge. Guns haven't really changed in 600 years, we've just made more convenient ones. The Manton Chambered breech, much like Henry Nock's patent breech, have been studied since their inception, and have never been shown to speed up ignition times over standard side-vents and dished breech faces. The only people who claimed that they did usually were people selling and buying of them. Sometimes an "improvement"...isn't, sometimes, it's just... different. By the time J. Manton was born, the Matchlock ignition was long out of common usage, and flintlocks were common (flintlocks and snaphaunces being around since at least the 1640's), so he didn't really have much to do with that. The Mantons' contribution to firearms design was that they helped to refine flintlock and sidelock percussion technology to it's pinnacle, reducing friction, shortening cock throw, balancing springs, ect. They made fine arms, but they were but one family out of many exceptional craftsmen of the age.
Whether the barrels were heavily filed after proofing, or never sent out for proofing... in the end, they weren't proofed. Serious modifications to the barrels by filing heavily enough to remove those stampings drastically reduces the wall thickness at the point where it is needed most, voiding it's proofing.
Thank you for your very detailed reply. You bring up some very valid points, which I am inclined to agree with in part. Thank you again.
Doing a lot of unsafe things at 21:00 , plus over loading the pan....it's a flash pan, not a fuse pan...
Manton was uncompromising when it came to the quality of his guns, but this same quality led to his uncompromising legal battles and his poverty.
I do hope that these Gentlemen were able to pass their firearms on to family without trouble due to the Draconian Firearms Laws in GB.
No licence required for those old guns. No problem in owning a shotgun in UK. As long as no criminal record.
@@kennethsmith2758 there is if you want to shoot them.
No idea where you get that idea from. You may have to get a black powder licence, but if you are a honest citizen
@@kennethsmith2758 I got that idea from the law. Antique firearms only require no licence if their sole purpose is display or collection, the minute you attempt to fire them they require licencing.
Well if you are talking any weapon firing a single shot bullet or missile you are correct. However you can use them on a approved range and belong to a club. Old shotguns the same but you would require a shotgun certificate with no stipulation for reason to own. If you wanted to load your own black powder you would need exsplosives permit.
I can totally see me dong this.
I wonder how many of Manton's aristocratic customers later played a part in his ruin?
I would guess that it was quite a number of them
@@studio12archive60 They treated Harrison and his Chronometer about the same.
Probably most of them, over 60%
I thought that duelling pistols were a French innovation.
Hi Michael. Thank you for your comment. You bring up an interesting point. I can not say for sure if dueling originated in France. It seems though, that it became popular in several countries at a similar time. I have put below, some relevant information which I hope is helpful.
The use of pistols in duels became popular in Britain, France and America during the mid-eighteenth century. Initially standard holster or travelling pistols were mainly used, but by the end of the century special-purpose duelling pistols were being made by craftsmen in England, France, Germany, Austria and America.
The most famous and innovative manufacturers were London-based companies such as Wogdon & Barton, Durs Egg, Manton, Mortimer, Nock, and Purdey.
Pairs of dueling pistols were often supplied in compartmentalised wooden cases along with a powder flask, rods for cleaning and loading, spare flints, spanners and other tools, and a bullet mould.
Who the hell would wear a 3 piece suit and buttoned up shirt but no tie?
"Damascus-forged" is misleading.This is a part of a series of misrepresentations used for shotgun barrels (Since the 1880's) that comes from the following history: Patterns in steels from the Middle East, mostly in swords, came not from "pattern welding" as illustrated, rather from the texture and pattern of steel from "wootz" ingots imported from Southern India. Most quality steels early on came from these cottage industry ingots. The irregular impurities, or alloys, game them a characteristic pattern. Japanese steels have historically had similar patterns, but in that case it is from a long history of layered, or pattern welded processes. They now twist their own history in Western language to pander to on-line commercial interests of modern steel makers. To clarify, the word Damascus should only refer to historical solid steels made from founding, not forge welding.
49.23 Be careful with that talk, don't want too lose your head over there buddy 😂
To the tower with him. LOL
10:18 Didn't know Jeremy Corbyn was a hunter
Us English are eccentric to the point of weird. Wouldn't have it any other way.
For a small wet and gloomy island nation you guys are doing pretty fucking amazing! Shows what grit, innovation and persistance can do. I served in your majesty's army for 10 years. I was an idiot for coming back to SA
Never prime before you load
10:48 no follow through. bad marksman. nice costume tho.
Is this from when the British were allowed to own guns?
LOL. They still can. I have been shooting for forty years. At one time I owned 5 guns in all. The gun control in the UK is a lot tighter than in other countries, but they are still accessible for sporting purposes.
Need to make one with a 10 inch barrel for close quarters battle. CQB.
Steve
42:44 goes on about muskets being inaccurate.....shows Riflemen.....
All quite relative, non rifled muzzle loaders obviously came first and accuracy was a shooters option as many shooters were often builders, inventors and innovators.
If the gun has a "lag" between pan fire and main charge a delay you say, then how do you explain the fact that a flintlock will fire UPSIDE down. And the brits would not except a gun that failed that simple test...........
A lag doesn't mean a failure to fire. It simply means there is a measurable delay as proven by tests done today.
I think you meant 'accept' which is actually the opposite of 'except '
Beautiful craftsmanship. But I'll stick with my Winchester... it's not Pretentious.. it's never occurred to me to put on a tie to go hunting, to English style for this yank
I need to sell walnut to these people, they are paying way too much.
You should drop a line to Purdy or Holland and Holland. They are always on the lookout for new, high quality sources.
Or Longthorne, although apparently they have a direct source in Turkey. If you’ve got burl, good burl at a good price, the European gun makers will buy. Rizzini, AYA, H&H, PuRdy, many others.
Sportsmen, indeed!...
Sports are practiced by athletes. How fit does one have to be to pull a trigger?
@FAXX REN Right; To me, a sportsman is the practitioner of a sport. Competitive spearfishing, for example, is a physically demanding hunting activity, as opposed to hauling your pot-belly into or around some bushes and pulling a trigger.
I love snooker, but I bristle when commentators refer to it as a sport.
@@zootsootful I think many of us don't think much of other people's sports.
For shooting birds, I would make the rules along the lines: Get as close as possible before you press the shutter on your simple camera.
Cheap, isn't it, but the poultry meat is already in the market.
My Dad bought 1 for 250 usd
That is a great investment. I wish I could find one at that price.
everybody in clip looks and speaks like a caricature of an Englishman
LOL
Oh, I am laughing at that remark!
One of them looked and sounded slightly familiar, but the age is wrong by about 40 years.
(?Son in law?)
Yes especially the museum guy that handles the guns with the gloves lol
That is to a screw driver you monster.
can you even own a rifle in England? I thought that you could not.
Yes you can. There are many many people who own rifles for deer stalking, foxing, vermin control, and target shooting. The licensing method is just a bit more robust, but it is not too difficult.
@@studio12archive60 good to know, i have a friend who lives in the UK and he told me it took him over 5 years to just get a matchlock, and he is not allowed to keep it at his house. Is that correct? Let me know who i need to have him call to keep it at his house.
@@Hickamfield It is all down to security. If you want to hold a firearm you want to use, you need a licence and demonstrate to the Police you can store it securely. You can get a licence in six months if you have a reason for having one, and you have a clean record.
more recent conflicts (shows a conflict from 104 years ago...
idk Colt and Browning were my favs.
I look at it he was the master of the flintlock era JMB was the master of the lever gun era and the undisputed master of self loading pistols Colt was the a master of revolvers manufacture
So kinda a flintlock era version of John Moses Browning
//Lars
J
charls manson
Shooting wildlife - people so lucky scientist tilted the human race from that plane..
This is 20 centuries outdated guns
They weren't outdated at the time. lol
Hm ,the master of today stood on theres sholders !!
@@studio12archive60 This is a fairly old film.. I never knew Peter Dyson was ever that young!
fuckin' murderers, no need to kill birds, rabbits now, we have supermarkets for meat, I had a Cogswell and Harrison .410 hammer when I was 12, then I grew up
LOL, Supermarkets. If you eat meat, something has to die. If you eat vegetables, something has to die.
John Moses Browning, and Mikhail Kalashnikov, Samuel Colt, and Eugene Stoner have entered the chat
The guns look pretty but the best gun designer ever nope
He was the master of the flintlock era and sportsman guns the real argument is Kalashnikov VS stoner
@@sqike001ton Kalashnikov was never in the same league as Gene Stoner.. Kalashnikov was built up by the Sovs as he was of peasant stock and was put up as a Soviet hero. He was not the original designer of the AK, which was mostly developed by a team of engineers who were kept well in the background.
If you want the greatest gun designer of the modern age, J M Browning would be my choice based not only on the quality but the range of the firearms he designed from .22s to the .50 cal.
Manton however was the man that set the design for the sporting shotgun. The double barrel format is almost completely down to him..!
Shotguns to kill pigeons? Guns cab be fun but shouldn't be used to kill animals or birds.
Sameul Colt had him beat
lol
@@studio12archive60 no its not funny its true there is very little this man made that is still in use and you dont see much of his work around but colts stuff is every where you use it and dont even know it
@toeff7852 this guy made shit for rich snobs colt made ground breaking guns that are still being made 150 years later but other than guns colt invented the lathe which is used to make almost all guns today every car truck and bus has parts made by a lathe got a lawn mower a fan there's even light polls that were made with a lathe as for Da Vinci Van Gogh you take a gun from this guy then take a gun from colt and shot it round for round and see which one breaks first
@@wb2413 As I said LOL
@@studio12archive60 lol go to any gun shop and see if anyone even knows who he is all he made was guns that never did anything but gather dust sitting in a rich mans closet
John Moses Browning was the best there ever was or ever could be and my 1886 Winchester 45-90 bears testament to that.
LOL
@@studio12archive60 Limey crap.
@@paulchandler9646 Idiot
@@studio12archive60 If it wasn't for us you would be speaking German 1/8 wit.
Apples to onion comparison. JMB was a genius and holds the most firearm patents (128) ever but he was not a custom gun maker, he was a gun designer and designed for mass production as was your 1886. These are high end custom guns... And be careful with the insults, JMB sold everything to FN a Belgian company, he love Europe and in fact died there.
That is what I have believed in for decades. Never ever trust a Politician, and more importantly never under any circumstances trust a Lawyer.
Hey Guys, Come on. Lawyers appeared on the scene in proliferation about a decade or two after the Industrial Revolution in Europe, And some
even made it over to Boston. Nothing has changed in nearly Two century's. Lawyers are a different animal now, so they tend to stick together, much like
Wolves do but in a much more carnivorous manner. There's even Institutions and clubs just for them. Why would they distance themselves from us. I will tell you why. Because they have to be in control. It's in their soul, It's in their DNA, It's how they were brought up and educated. They a going to be the next pain in the
( Nurse, I think I just made a poop. Well we won't bother with that, It's the rest of your crap I have to deal with now).
и что.этот домаскус .дает прочное элостичное свойство стволам.говно это все.стрельни бездымным и пиздец полный домаскусу.фуфло талкаете. а за сказаное отвечаю.
Очень приятно смотреть на дамасские бочки.
Duals were never an honorable thing to do, it was always evil especially for those hypocrites who called themselves Christians while immediately rushing to murder for the slightest insult.