Colorado Mid-Air 17 Sept 2022
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- čas přidán 22. 09. 2022
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This accident gives me chills. About 25 years ago, I was about a half-second from having an almost identical accident. I was flying an Air Force T-41 (a fuel-injected C-172) east of Colorado Springs at 8500 feet. My student was doing slow flight, and we crossed paths with some sort of low-wing aircraft (I seem to remember it was a Bonanza, but I'm not sure after all this time). The other aircraft was hidden from my view by the post to the left of the windscreen. It went across in front of us within 50 feet, co-altitude, and we were so close we felt its wake.
To say I was shaken at the time would be an understatement. I didn't tell my wife about it for months. I can honestly say that even now, with 36 years and over 15,000 hours as a pilot, this was the most frightening thing that has ever happened to me in an airplane.
Finally, before anyone rushes to conclusions about this accident or my incident, let me say this. As a long-time pilot instructor, I was clearing. And yet, we were a fraction of a second from being debris on the plains of Colorado,. It can happen. You can never clear too much. Use your eyes, your radio, your ADS-B--anything you can. I don't want to watch a video about you, okay?
As a 30 year experience CFII/MEI and instructing out of Rocky Mountain Metro since 2006. It is simply too crowded there with flight training. There are 3 fixed wing flight schools at BJC plus flight schools at Boulder, Longmont, and Erie. Throw in multiple flying club's and independent instructors and it's pretty common to see 30, 40 to 50 airplanes out there in the northwest quadrant of the Denver metro area. I won't take students into that practice area. I take them to the north/northeast side of the Bravo we're it's less crowded and be able to spend more time training than avoiding other traffic. I think some of the younger CFI's think they are saving their students money by staying close to home base but in reality end up waisting too much time avoiding traffic to teach a maneuver. I would suggest the flight school's should meet up and figure out a designated practice area for each school so that they are not competing for the same piece of airspace.
Rick, it's been a few years now but was glad to see your name and read your thoughts here. I think you're spot on. You pegged me and my faulty line of thinking while I instructed there. My heart sank when I saw this news pop up, knowing too well the congestion there from my time teaching at RMFS. Not to mention a young CFI and student in their low 20s...hits close. Hope all is well Rick, I have very fond memories!
I could not agree more. During my primary training, I could not count the number of times my CFI and I had to take evasive maneuvers to avoid other aircraft. Part of the problem is students and CFIs booking two-hour blocks. With pre-flight, taxi, runup, etc., that doesn't leave much time for getting out of the practice area, doing maneuvers, and returning in time for taxing, tie-down, de-briefing, and filling out logbooks. Students and CFIs should book three-hour blocks and spread to the north and northeast for maneuvers. The added bonus would be more time flying rather than time spent holding short in the BJC conga line.
Making a deal with Denver Approach to provide traffic advisories in the practice areas would make a big difference too. SCT provides such services for aircraft in the busiest airspace in the world, and it makes a huge difference.
@Richard Rickert: I love it when people identify problems and present viable solutions to them at the same time, as you have done in this case. I hope that aviators at locations outside of the greater Denver/Boulder area and all across the nation where similar congestion exists in training areas take your suggestion seriously.
It was absolutely tragic what happened. I knew the instructor in the 172 not very well but enough to know he had a dedication to his students to make their learning experience unique. He had a great energy about him I wish I could have known him longer. Having flown N2117Y I can confirm there was ADSB-IN via built-in stratus.
My heart goes out to all of you. It shakes me when I see a plane I know has crashed in a fatal accident, I can't imagine how much more difficult it must be to know the people involved.
If you do not mind a question, do you know if 17Y was set up receive ADS-B in from the FAA of mode c? I think its called ADS-R, and I believe the ADS-B out equipment on the plane has to have a settings box checked to request that data from the FAA towers. The Sonex seemed to only be mode S (no position), so it would not have been visible on the ADS-B in equipment unless the FAA was broadcasting its position.
I am a jump pilot in fairly busy airspace, I cannot tell you how many times my foreflight traffic data has helped me spot airplanes. Absolutely worth the money
Thank you for giving us such a thorough report. My son is a flight instructor out of Rocky Mountain Airport and the flight instructor in this crash was his dear friend. As a mom, I struggle every day knowing the danger but all I can do is pray.
I am a relatively low time CFI-I. 1,300 hours. Flying since 1989. Earlier this summer I did a nice trip in a C-172N from KIPL to L00. Going in early morning was no problem. The return in the mid afternoon was very different. A lot of traffic to the North east of Big Bear inbound to the L.A. basin, and Palm Springs. Skirting Edwards AFB Restricted airspace, I saw obviously potentially conflicting traffic, a C-180 on a brisk descent to Rosamond. Picked it up on Stratus/ForeFlight. C-172 has ADS-B out but to see the ADS-B in I use ForeFlight. Adjusted course & saw him but missed by about 300’ plus lateral separation. I can bet he never saw me. I stayed low until after traffic passed. Same flight… near Joshua Tree, I descended to avoid high speed traffic inbound towards Palm Springs. 15 years ago I would probably not have noticed either. I used to be skeptical about ADS-B. That flight sold me on that regulatory change. So … watch out at edges of all airspace…. Watch out near all airway intersections, VFR CHECKPOINTS and VORs… In addition to traffic patterns….
We knew Daniel Wilmoth, as we was on our MSU Denver collegiate aerobatics team. I personally did not know, but as a team, we will all keep his memories close to our hearts. May you rest in peace Dan and everyone else involved ❤️
I suggest that when using Foreflight to monitor ADS-B traffic it is best to turn off the VFR Sectional overlay in Maps>Layers in order to declutter the display and make the traffic much more visible. You will still see urban area outlines as well as major roads, rail and waterways for general situational awareness. The VFR sectional was originally a paper map so ALL of the information had to be there ALL of the time and it makes for a very cluttered and busy display in electronic form. I'm not claiming this to be a solution but it does help some.
That's a great suggestion pi regardless of the EFB you use. I established this same procedure once I am above 3,000 AGL. On my EFB (iFlyGPS), I use the "vectors" mode which only shows navaids, waypoints, obstacles and airports.
I'm just a lowly Private Pilot and an A&P IA. I've logged roughly 2300 hours in the last forty years. It seems that since the pandemic there has been a rash of midair collisions and countless incidents.. I don't know if people were flying less (GA) and have let there proficiency wane somewhat. I just feel that during this time people have not flown enough to remain proficient. Speaking for myself, I know my flying skills has dwelled somewhat during the last couple of years. Please everyone, stay current, stay healthy and fly safe.
Gene I would agree with you...Ive got same certificatesI was instructed by my Dad a WW2 pilot and SEL with 6K+ till he failed medical. The Old school CFI were Hard Airman with great advice not passed on today...Like Pick a Point ( know your TO/Landing terrain ), ALWAYS Low point drain your fuel, on and on. I was instructed stall spin in a turn and level. Today thats not important in training.
@@daveboon5992 Common sense seems to not be your forte. The "Jab" has nothing to do with piloting fitness, although if you had Covid and weren't fully recovered it could affect a person.
@@daveboon5992 what?
@@brucemiller8109 WW2 pilots were bad ass amazing, no doubt about it.
@@daveboon5992 its always the brain dead idiots bringing in politics when they have nothing informative to say
I received my primary training out of Rocky Mountain Metro and spent most of my training in that practice area. It is very congested, not just because of the Denver class B, but because of the mountains to the west and Metro's class D to the south. It can be borderline chaotic on Saturday and Sunday mornings. See-and-avoid is insufficient in this area. ADS-B-in is a must. My sincere condolences to the families and friends of these pilots.
Another local KBJC pilot here. I too went to school with Dan and spoke with him on many occasions. Great guy and a skilled pilot, and he will be sorely missed. Having flight trained out of that airport and flown most of my hours in that area, I too can vouch for the congestion in the area. I don’t utilize Foreflight but may do so in the future for traffic warnings alone. I’ve had instances of closer than I’d like calls in that airspace. It’s my number one concern flying there.
As a student pilot, I am very aware of the possibility of a mid-air collision. See and avoid is the rule, but this year in Central Texas there has been an incredible amount of haze that obscures vision up to 3,500 ft MSL where we practice.
A solution is Stratux ADSB-in with an inexpensive Android tablet (or phone) running the free version of Avare. All for less than $500. The other issue is the sheer number of homebuilt RV's we have in our area, and since most are outside of the DFW Class B and Mode-C/ADSB-out circle, they are not equipped. In fact, my first instructor flying out of KSEP did not have ADSB in or out. He reinforced scan and scan technique very often. With a good mix of PA-28's and high-wing Cessna's in the area, I can see problems arising in the pattern.
Thanks for the update, and I always enjoy your review of the most recent incidents. It keeps us aware of all the easy ways there are for us to do ourselves in up there.
Folks like you, DG and Scott Purdue serve to remind us that we train for a reason. As a side note, FlyWire discussed a recent incident at 50F that, uhmmm, got my attention. The P-210 that went down there had a fellow I know as PIC. In fact, we were supposed to start some tailwheel training in his Champ right after he got back from that trip. Real hairy-chested man stuff - hand-propping a taildragger and flying off a grass field. I don't see that happening now, unfortunately.
The White Lily is one of the best commentators on accidents. Appreciate the detail and commentary from someone understands the subject matter without hyperbole. Thanks.
Forgot to mention, both my wife and I watch and love your reports, Thank You for all your hard work.
My experience , in the Tampa/ Orlando airspace, is that unless its a big jet, in level flight, I identify significant traffic with ADSB, much earlier than I can see them out the cockpit. Which to me means, I'm keeping an eye on my ADSB screens a bit more often than when I look out of the rear mirror when I'm driving. In our airspace I find myself altering course often. I often fly under 3000 ft AGL. Seldom do I see other aircraft altering course because of my direction of flight, although it does happen on occasion , and most likely we are both altering course. Our area is a very busy traffic area between Orlando and Tampa International class B's, Lakeland and Bartow class D's and all the other non towered airports with their attendant aviation schools. Theoretically most of these aircraft should have ADSB in and out due to the multiple class B veils and class D airports. I think most pilots are not used to keeping an eye on ADSB traffic, especially , where it is most crowded, below 3000 ft AGL. In my opinion we need to be minding both ADSB and looking out the window in our "Bug smashers", especially in high traffic areas. I use a combination of 2 screen Dynon in, Garmin 345 out, panel mounted Garmin 796, with an independent GDL 39 in, independent from the Dynon ADSB in. At KLAL we have Amazon flying in very frequently , 2 large aviation schools, and a myriad, of small ones, Publix , NOAA, Draken, and a multiplicity of private jets and bug smashers competing for attention just in the general vicinity. I really admire Tampa Traffic control and our own Class D controllers. Cheers.
Answered the very first 911 call placed for this. Watched your channel for years, never expected to be so familiar with a video. Thanks for the great analysis.
When this was reported on local news, I said I wanted to wait for Juan's analysis and report. Clear and thorough as expected. So sad that there seemed to be no obvious errors by either pilot in this case.
I live southwest of Niwot. During the weekends the airspace above Niwot and Gunbarrell is very congested. Great plane watching but I’ve seen aircraft get way too close to each other many times. Absolutely tragic 😢. Thanks for the update Juan.
one of the benefits of all the high tech money that hs flooded that area I guess. . if only boulder county was still all ag and little oil and little tech. if my bro ever finishes that long ez the skies there will be even more crowded. at the rate hrs going your safe.
@@wishicouldspel Long EZ's are so awesome! Saw several over the years at Oshkosh, then a local here bought/built one. It was so cool to see/hear that plane flying overhead. Always reminded me of a Klingon ship 😀
I fly out of KBJC all the time and the training areas just north of the airport up there are just absolutely crazy, especially on weekends. This is sad to see.
Minor correction to what you said: Just because you can see a track in adsbexchange, it doesn't mean the plane had ADS-B OUT. The Sonex didn't have it because the source of the track is given as MLAT, which is triangulation of Mode C or older Mode S (without positional data) by private operated ground stations. There is another track in the system (can be retrieved via the "replay" function of the area at the accident time) as an anonymous plane that follows parallel to the Sonex MLAT position and that one is given as an FAA supplied unknown plane detected by primary radar. If the 172 had ADS-B IN (like with an iPad plus Stratus), it would have seen the Sonex but the accuracy of its position would have been very coarse. Since the accident happened in the Mode-C / ADS-B OUT veil, the Sonex should have had ADS-B OUT on, but it didn't.
I’m not a big fan of all the FAA regulations but I’d love it if they forced all aircraft to have adsb out.
@@Pepesilvia267 - Those of us in pure gliders (with only batteries for electrical systems) can not equip ADS-B Out. The electrical demands of a transponder signal that has to be detectable by ground stations from 100 miles away are just too great.
However, that's not to say gliders shouldn't have anticollision systems. The glider community developed a technology called FLARM, which uses a low-power radio to transmit our position and flight path data to each other, and this low power signal often carries for upwards of 20 miles depending on conditions. Its quite reliable within about 5 miles' distance, which at typical closure rates of gliders and light GA aircraft (~200 mph in a head-on situation) still gives ~30 seconds of time to see and hear the visual and audible alarms and maneuver to avoid the traffic. FLARM systems in the US can also receive and decode Mode C and Mode S; so while folks with ADS-B In won't see a FLARM-equipped glider, the glider will definitely see the ADS-B traffic and can avoid it.
Bottom-line: There are reasonable solutions that can be fit for purpose of the different types of aircraft in the airspace; there's no need for a knee-jerk regulatory action to force a single piece of equipment onto every aircraft regardless of its appropriateness or the effects it'll have.
@@noelwade that’s cool that gliders have a system. I still stand by the opinion that it should be an FAA requirement for powered flight. Id love to know where gliders and ultra lights since I’ve had a few scares. But I think the majority of accidents are between powered craft so I think a rule focused on specific types vs a blanket rule would make sense like you said.
@@Pepesilvia267 Most airspace what you might actually encounter close traffic, they do require ADSB. We need to stop trying to substitute tech for proper flight awareness. And, we need to stop offering up expensive requirements every time someone does something stupid.
@@freeintx8285 I encounter tons of traffic in my areas and all those are untowered airports that are class D airspace. A lot of these crashes I’ve seen are not in Class B or C.
N2117Y was the aircraft i did my first solo in at 16 years old back in July 2016 at F45 in West Palm Beach, Florida. This was really sad, I really loved that bird. Rest in peace to those who died
I'm not a pilot. I'm always ready to learn something, and Juan's lessons never disappoint. This video's lesson was the concentration of GA traffic at the perimeters of Bravo layers. And a little about ADS-B and its limitations. Thanks.
I knew the pilot of the Xenos. He was a great guy and will be missed.
I did too and I've known him for almost 23 years. He had a lot of hours in his M20.
Simply the best EXPLAINER available on You Tube or possibly anywhere. Another excellent job Juan. You are the best.
Thanks Juan. You are providing a priceless service to GA pilots everywhere. Keep up the good work.
There, by the grace of God, go us.
Once again, great video Juan. I live and fly in this area, it can get extremely busy! Over the past several years flight training has greatly increased. "See and be seen" not good enough!
Many thanks!
Thank for the excellent explanation Juan. Your dedicated service is much appreciated. Take care.
Thanks very much for bringing that Midair Collision Risk report to my attention. I'm in one of those big cities with lots of aircraft activities. Where the colored blobs are on the maps are exactly where you'd expect them, but its still very helpful to have that visualized to help to be mindful of where those more congested areas are. I'll forward a copy to the bald eagle who recently decided to not maintain good vertical separation with me heading into the pattern!
I fly out of Boulder, to the southwest of where this happened, and can say that the practice area there can often get very busy, nobody is controlled by ATC; it's reporting only, assuming that is, they both were on the practice area frequency. If you don't have ADS-B in avoiding traffic can be very difficult when it's busy.
Great analysis. I was at the Longmont airport when the call came in about this tragic accident. I’m a 5000+ hour pilot and this scenario still scares the crap out of me. I too am a big advocate for having some sort of ADSB in capability displayed on the iPad with audio linked to the headset. It has helped me in numerous situations. I have been sending your video to several friends who are just getting started in aviation as a life-critical lesson. Thanks for your thoughtful, well told analysis.
Years ago when I was a newer pilot, I was on downwind at the San Carlos CA airport (SQL) witch is a training airport for ATC Controllers. I was flying a Cessna 172, all of the sudden another aircraft filled my windscreen, all I could see was the bottom of his aircraft as he was making a left turn into the pattern ahead of me. Not a word was heard from the tower before or after the incident, the other aircraft was no further than 50-100ft from me (I could hear his engine). My heart was still beating fast after I landed. With a high wing aircraft, no way I could have seen this aircraft coming, I did lift my wing several times in the pattern and listened to ATC, they didn't say anything and the aircraft must have been high, turning and descending into the pattern. Pretty scary, this happened in the 80's and I still think about the fact that I am lucky to still be here.
Similar experience but at PAO. They run using an extended traffic pattern (downwind almost to NUQ) with 6-7 a/c in the pattern. Tower was overwhelmed
@@wayne530 I've flown into PAO, "number 8 for landing."
San Carlos is a stone's throw from class B, and PAO is on the other side. Just flying into there scares me.
@@wayne530 And here I am, contemplating a move to Palo Alto next year...and continuing my training. 😂. I've been out there twice and have "geeked out" at both PAO & SQL. One day soon, I might get to announce as "Bayflight". 😊
@@ronbo422 PAO is great, but in terms of primary training, you’ll get better value and efficiency of time spent at other airports IMHO (CCR, LVK). When PAO is busy you might only get 3-4 touch and go landings in one hour of flight time whereas I’ve done close to 10 per hour out of CCR’s 19L.
On many of these accident videos or on aviation forums, the “see and avoid, keep your head on a swivel” is touted as the best way to save your bacon and the other person’s. To me this is very ineffective as evidenced by the prevalence of so many mid-air collisions. With ADSB-in I see the traffic on ForeFlight and make my best attempts to “see” the traffic with my eyeballs to no avail. ForeFlight in conjunction with ADSB in has allowed me to “avoid” many potential mid-airs without the ability to see with my eyeballs outside the cockpit. Eyeballs are old technology and are not to be relied upon. Anyone who thinks “eyeballs” are the best way to avoid mid-airs should seriously reconsider that position. I think all aircraft should have ADSB out and in. If you can afford to have an airplane you can afford the ADSB traffic option.
I agree. Trying to see other small GA aircraft during the day is like looking for mosquitos in the trees. When I see one on the ADS-B-in, I start searching out my window. It's not uncommon that I'll pass within a mile of another airplane without being able to spot it, despite my best attempts. See-and-avoid is woefully inadequate in 2022.
I've flown in 172s out of Rocky Mountain before. I've been involved in 1 near mid-air collision during CAVU environment. At 2000 AGL or below, small aircraft get lost in the visual clutter of Longs Peak and surrounding mountainous area to the immediate west. This looks like an almost head-on collision. The 172 crew were possibly conversing and the Sonex pilot just didn't see them in time. Closure rate would have been less than 200 KTS.
Why even linger near the foothills? Just the winds off the mountains is enough, easily hit 30-40MPH. I took a girl on a date/glider ride in Boulder. Yikes!
@@marcosmota1094 I take it that was the last date too?😉
@@57Jimmy Nah, just no click. Decades later, she passed away of natural causes. At least, I gave her a good memory.
Announcing where you are and the fact you are practicing maneuvers can help alert other pilots in the area. Turning your landing light on can help others see you. Always make clearing turns before executing any practice maneuver, and if you have a high wing like the Cessna 172, lift that wing to take a look to the side and behind before turning in that direction for the clearing. Every little bit helps.
👍
This right here. I see no evidence of clearing turns on the ADSB tracks.
Your explanations are concise with enough extras for the layperson, and your suspected reasons always very insightful.
Thank you Capt. Browne
ADSB has saved my bacon on several occasions near Houston's Class B. Like you said, I have mine tied in via Foreflight into my headset. Works amazingly. I'm a firm believer in the technology and hope others will get on board. Thanks Juan for posting. Sad as always to hear of a mid-air. RIP
It was my first purchase after my headset as a student. I can't imagine flying without it. If you can afford flight lessons, you can afford ads-b in.
Amen to that! I used to fly IWS to VCT regularly, before ADSB and It was giving me gray hair at 26y/o😅
Gotta keep SWEEPING OUT!
Lovely gauntlet squeezing between the deltas of SGR and HouExec just beyond the bravos of IAH and HOU. Just a few months back Juan covered the mac of that Martinaire and the paraglide.
I can't believe its not required, I think flight school aircraft should be required to have a very simple Traffic alert system. Should just be an ADSb receiver with red yellow green lights and maybe a "clock" to show direction and an up down arrow.
@@nicholashartzler2205 most decent ones do now. All aircrafts at my school had ADSB in/out even the aircrafts that weren’t IFR. But the temptations to make it cheaper per flight hour makes some schools have basic equipment
Thanks Mr Browne 👍👍✈️✈️
Good idea on setting up the audio. ADSB was intended to enhance safety, it does require both parties to have it switched on and being familiar with how it works. Sadly sometimes the ducks don't line up. If I was flying, avoiding the high risk airspace would be a priority. The problem being one cannot always do that if you need to go somewhere. Getting killed while doing what you love sucks.
Thanks for all you do Juan....But just for the record 9 A.M. is always in the MORNING, always has been, always will be!
Stay safe, Juan and keep keeping a sharp eye out for fires.
I've been flying in this area almost 3x a week, for the last 3 years. I'm more surprised this doesn't happen everyday in this area. I went south the day this happened, too many students up North.
Good tips for using Foreflight & ADSB. I hadn't connected it to my BT headset but now I will. Thanks.
Niwot resident here, you nailed to pronunciation.
I saw once the remains of two aircraft mid air Collition, both aircraft did land. One was a turbo commander 690 the other a Piper Navajo. One was taking off while the Turbo Commander was crossing the piper path while turning and being a High wing had a blind spot. They were extremely lucky.
JUAN BROWNE should be awarded at least an HONORARY DOCTORATE from the HARVARD equivalent in AVIATION SAFETY. The dissemination of practical and technical knowledge is of immeasurable value.
Hi Juan, my wife was on flight AA6489 from SFO-LHR 22 September. Sounds like you may have been as well!!
Really enjoy your channel. You obviously know your stuff!!
Great information. I spent my teen years living in Niwot. Very close to home. The 172 definitely would have the sun in its eyes if traveling east was the last heading.. Longmont is the physical location of the Denver ARTCC.
Nothing replaces eyes outside the cockpit.
damn right. Too many electronic gadgets in play these days
Great coverage of see and avoid, ADS-B in/out and TCAS. As a lapsed but engaged pilot I’ve really taken to the idea of having both ADS-B In and Out when I get back in the air. As a Nevada City resident I’ve been using FlightAware and ForeFlight for years to watch and identify aircraft overhead and I keep noticing, recently, older big radial aircraft having more of a tendency not to be using even ADS-B out (since they don’t show up in my apps). I know that it’s not technically required in the Class E above me, but given that the odds are good that these old radial engine planes are being flown by older pilots I can’t help but think that there’s just a little bit of stubbornness involved in not adopting ADS-B out at all times. It’s not like these pilots are on a budget or anything.
REF Window Cleaning - I was always taught 2 things - 1) Only use specially formulated aircraft PLEXIGLASS cleaning solution on Plexiglass windows or WATER. Period. 2) *Always* wipe parallel to the airflow. Doesn't matter what kind of window, always go with the airflow. 3) Always use low-lint towels. Don't use paper towels, don't use just a standard shop rag. They need to be soft, and low lint. Otherwise, you can scratch the windscreen. It needs to be taught to *every* pilot and *every* line tech, because too often, it isn't and you can see it in these airplanes.
From a local Coloradian your video lines up with what we have seen in the local media. Your video covers all the relevant information available at this time.
Flown to BJC a couple times, beautiful area, very tragic. Godspeed to the families.
Juan, the Sonex did NOT have ADS-B out. ADS-B Exchange was tracking it using MLAT and also from the FAA’s TIS-B feed. My understanding is that the Sonex was illegal there. It had a Mode S transponder though.
Thanks Juan. RIP. I try to keep my iPAD connected via Bluetooth to my headset to get traffic alerts in my ear if I haven't happened to catch it visually.
Thank you for the update
😁😁👍👍Thanks and I love your videos blancolirio !
I clicked on this because I saw a Sectional Chart. Last time saw one of those when I was a CFI. Years ago, after type ratings on the DC-9, B737 and B756.
I fly a pretty zippy (250 kts indicated below 16,000) turboprop airplane from the Phoenix area over to Santa Barbara in VFR quite often. The boss likes to go fast in order to get there and back out ASAP. I don't know about you guys, but I don't think I'd do it VFR without ADS-B out and in. Dodging all the traffic in Southern California is like playing that old game of Space Invaders... The one good thing about flying the airplane at 250 kts down low is that no one is going to hit us from the sides or rear; we only have to watch out (mostly) ahead of us. And watch, we do!
Juan… maybe you can go into your mouse settings and turn on the feature so when you press the “control” (cntrl) button on your keyboard… it displays circles around the pointer. I use it when sharing my computer screen so others can easily follow my mouse pointer. That would really help,your audience out. Thanks.
I second this! We can barely see his mouse.
Amazing. As long as I have been flying, it has never occurred to me that the area immediately around the perimeter of class C (or other controlled airspace) is ripe for collisions. One of my most common flights takes me just to the outside of Atlanta’s Class C. I have seen plenty of other planes and honestly the closest one has come to me in that area was a regional jet descending into Atlanta under approach control guidance. My TCAS in my piper alerted and his obviously did too just as approach control gave immediate directions for the jet to divert west 20 degrees. I will pay even closer attention for traffic in those areas. Thanks for your excellent analysis and extra safety tips such as this Juan!
A few additional and important observations.. this Xenos does have an electrical system (there are CZcams videos showing it flying with nav lights on, etc). However, the story may be a little more tragic... The Xenos was equipped with ADSB-out, but it stopped working properly between July 14 and July 21, according to FlightAware data. From July 21 onward, positional data was recorded by MLAT (that's where multiple ground stations hear an aircraft's MODE-C broadcast, they compare the signal's delay to figure out its position (triangulation). Whether the Xenos' Mode-C position (based on radar) was transmitted over the FAA's TIS-B feeds is anyone's guess. I think it depends on whether the ground station created a "hockey puck" around the Skyhawk - most likely not because the Skyhawk probably wasn't reporting that it had "single-frequency ADSB-in". In any event, the Xenos was operating illegally and the pilot probably didn't know it was broken. As for the Skyhawk, I didn't see any equipment in Juan's still-photos that would display ADS-B targets-- everything in that radio stack was state-of-the-art in 2001 .. and the yoke-mounted Garmin is almost as old.
Speaking of midair collisions, an aircraft in Massachusetts flew through a skydiving drop zone that was active and a skydiver hit the horizontal stabilizer of the aircraft. The impact broke the skydiver’s ankle but it knocked part of the horizontal stabilizer off and the aircraft crashed killing everyone on board. Don’t fly through active drop zones!
Good thing the skydiver didn't take the stabilizer into the ear
Yes. That accident occurred on 21 November 1993 at Northampton, Massachusetts.
When my son Spencer updated his panel he included ADSB in, his Garmin shouts at him through his headphones 'TRAFFIC"
Great presentation as always. Any research about plane color and Midair collisions?
Thanks Juan. Sad- this is becoming far too common. I totally agree with you about “see and avoid”. It’s impossible to get it 100% right, (and even more so with high performance aircraft.) It was one of the scariest things I did flying heavy jets into non-controlled airspace. Part of my briefing to my FO was always “The biggest threat we face is the guy with no radio, radio turned off, or not listening to his radio, and that was BEFORE ADSB was available for GA aircraft.
I've been conducting quite a few flight reviews and aircraft rental checkouts this year in SoCal. I'm observing far too many newly rated pilots and even some relatively experienced private level pilots not properly checking and clearing the airspace before they turn. Not 'lifting a wing' for example in the high wing aircraft and not verbally calling out "its clear left, or its clear right" before starting a turn. I explain to them you wouldn't change lanes in a car without looking, so why would you change direction/heading in a aircraft without properly scanning the airspace. Without sounding like a old man here, im seeing a lot of balls being dropped in the flight training industry nowadays (and that's on the instructors) the safety culture in the aggregate is getting watered-down, leading to some piss poor fundamentals.
I've had me a couple close calls flying SoCal area and you're totally correct.
Clear your turns! It's hard to see up there!
I think what we are seeing in the aviation world is a lot of low-time CFIs that don’t want to be instructing basically being a passenger in the airplane because they are riding out their 1,500 hours. I was a little bit of an older student when I started in my late 30s and I had to fire 3 CFIs from private through multi-com because they didn’t want to be there. When you have instructors like this, students are barely learning enough to (maybe) pass a checkride, but they aren’t qualified to do much more than some laps in the pattern.
@007Mugs I agree with you. My old instructors really covered things in detail in the old days. I never heard later anything that my instructors had forgot to tell me during hanger flying.
For my Commercial rating my flight instructor was a physicist, and he had worked out the calculations for turning back to the runway after an engine out in a 152. He did it then showed me starting at 400 feet AGL. Power goes off, nose go almost fully down, stall horn is SCREAMING, shallow turn, you’re looking at the ground, and yes we just leveled the wings over the runway to flare. I would never do that in a real emergency because we needed every foot of altitude, and we were ready for it. In a real emergency you’d have to account for the element of surprise and time to decide to turn back. I don’t recommend ever doing it, and It’s too dangerous to practice.
@@VLove-CFII you are very fortunate to have flown with intelligent, caring instructors. High quality aviation educators and talent to teach can still be found out there, but times are changing...
@@bittnerbs good for you for firing the bad ones! It's critically important in those first 100 hours or so, that time-tested fundamentals are taught, knowledge is gained and proper airmanship is ingrained.
The audio warning is exactly what I've been trying to get to reliably operate with Foreflight. Note Bluetooth connections with the iPad to headset isn't always connecting 100%, or other issues such as volume isn't high enough. It is unconscionable that any ADS-B In does not automatically have an audio warning. Kudos to Foreflight for providing an alternate solution.
such a great explanation thank u
I'll never be a pilot, but find this channel ad Juan's work on it to be interesting and informative. He's caused me to venture down no small number of internet rabbit holes...the crash videos are a disturbing reminder of how complicated this entire process is. Anyway, thank you Juan, this type of video must be taxing on you.
You appear to be a young person who is interested in aviation. Why don’t you learn to fly? It’ll be a rewarding pastime or career if you choose.
These case studies are also instrumental I'm making aviation more safe.
Yup, Rick, same here - no interest in doing anything but fly as a paying passenger on scheduled airline services, but I find both Juan and Dan Gryder's videos to be compelling viewing.
@@ibnewton8951 thanks, but I turn 65 later this year...
This guy is 79 old and he is relearning to fly on a gyro, very nice video! Here is the title on CZcams:
My beginner's training on a Magni Orion Gyroplane
Great video. Thanks 🇺🇸
flew out of Santa Monica, So California once in a single small plane i was in right seat watching everything on right pilot had everything on left and forward, talk about busy geez!!! a little scary! so much traffic down there, condolence's to the families
Thank you.
FCC helped television owners pay for analog to digital converters back in the 90s, why they cannot subsidize TCAS.
I fly out of kfnl all the time. I’ve never been denied flight following from Denver approach. They are some of the most helpful controllers to ga traffic I’ve ever come across.
6 hour student. One "near miss" both training airplanes.. both announcing our positions and altitude . Heading opposite directions @ 1000' nobody actually communicating.. After they turned toward us closing the gap i was comfortable with i said... "you're controls. Get us outta here!" Instructor happily took them and put the nose down... i don't think the other plane ever saw us... felt like less than 100' but probably 3-500? I could read the N number just fine. Anyway.. my takeaway was WHY DIDN'T ANYBODY ACTUALLY COMMUNICATE!?
I had a near-miss early in my primary training at Metro. Tower told me I was number three, following a Skyhawk at my 12 o'clock. I spotted a Skyhawk at my 10 o'clock and began turning base to follow it. It turned out that was the number one. I nearly collided with the number two, who had just turned base-to-final. I've learned never to call out "traffic in sight" unless I am certain I have the right aircraft. I'd rather let ATC call my base.
I finally bit the bullet and bought an ADS-B in receiver (Sentry) recently. After one flight with it I quickly realized what a fool I was for waiting so long.
Back in the day, I was a student pilot practicing ground-reference maneuvers in the local practice area. I was at 500 AGL, using Flight Following, and seemingly had the area to myself. Just as I finished my maneuvers I was surprised, to put it mildly, to have a C-130 fly directly under me! Before my heart rate could return to the green, here comes two more! Flight Following never uttered a peap. And no, there were no NOTAMS. The C-130s were presumably hauling paratroopers to the drop zone on Ft Rich, a fairly common occurrence.
You were doing maneuvers as a student at 500’? Wow I’ve never flown that low except takeoff and landing
Yeah that’s pretty low for practicing anything except landing
The pilots had you on radar and were laughing thinking they made ya poop your pants I bet, they probably altered course slightly just to be sure you “noticed” them. haha😂 god bless the USA
I would be so paranoid of other planes around me I don't think I could fly
@@justinborysenko3885 That's my recollection, but it was decades ago. Whatever the recommended altitude was back then... I suppose it could have been 600-800, but no more than that.
Thank you
Thanks for that video,
I can’t believe that would be considered a practice area. I get well north of Longmont to practice. Way too congested in that area.
Check out the source for the sonic on ADSB exchange. It is MLAT, not ADSB, so even if the 172 had ADSB in, is it possible that it would not have shown on their avionics?
Excellent point
Great explanation Juan....
Thanks for this explanation. It's scary to me, from airline to GA OMG so many more rules.
Thanks for the audio alert advise with Foreflight great advice I ll try it. It could be possible the Sonex had no electric system with no transponder (no ADS-b).
Very unlikely. While ads-b is not needed most places below 10,000ft it is needed above or in class C, and in this flight they were within 30nm of a class B airspace which mandates that all planes in that 30nm radio's have ads-b. Called the mode C veil. Reference far 91.225(d)(1,2,3)
Edit: they were outside the mode C veil but operating very close. And also apparently gliders might not need it. So take this with a healthy dose of salt. Today I learned.
Imagine getting that audible warning, then receiving a warning based on your heading., such as "traffic, traffic, at your 4 o'clock"
I fly high-wing birds and I usually try to lift my wing in the direction of an intended turn, hopefully in an attempt to see/discover any other aircraft. Certainly not a 100% panacea and sometimes I forget, but I’ve been fairly consistent when in and when joining a traffic pattern or practice area. Of course also hoping everybody else in a pattern is also using his/her radio. Nonetheless, human fallibility is always in the back of my head. And finally, I’m a huge fan of ADSB in/out. But that doesn’t always guarantee everybody else is sending.
When news came out about this midair collision people at work were asking me as a pilot about it, and I told them, “I have to wait to hear the initial report from Blancolirio Channel.” One of my colleagues is ex-USAF and she is also a fan of your channel. Thanks for the thorough report, we appreciate your diligence.
I am genuinely fearful of crowded non-towered airports. Too many pilots don’t use their radios, can’t tell left from right, and flat out ignore the conventional pattern for my liking. At my old home airport near Corpus Christi, I’ve seen pilots announce their intent to fly right pattern when there are already several aircraft already in the leftward pattern (FAA sanctioned for that airport) apparently ignoring the aircraft and radio traffic around them. I no longer fly that airport, despite their cheap gas! I also try to avoid the VFR areas under the tiers of Class B airspace, which as you point out are incredibly busy with certified aircraft, but also powered para-gliders, ultralights, and even high-flying drones.
I don’t know what the solution to the mid-air collision problem is, but for my part I use ForeFlight with ADS/B-in a LOT, and I believe it works. I can “see and avoid” the green triangles a helluva lot better than I can the tiny specks of approaching aircraft through my windscreen.
Do we know if either accident aircraft even tried to request flight following from Denver Approach? I appreciate the end of the video and the recommendations for use of adsb-in and keeping your head outside and on a swivel but call ATC and ask for the flight following service! If they can provide it they will if they can't then you still have the aforementioned methods to keep you safe. 9 times out of 10 ATC will be willing to keep an eye out for you and more times than not, ATC actually would like to talk to you! They want to work with you for the safety of the overall operation not against you. By the way did I mention its FREE!!!!! God Bless America!
How are there so many mid airs this year? 😢
One reason may be that the airlines are currently hiring pilots. This hiring spree may only be temporary, but for now it is cause for many flight schools to be operating at maximum capacity. Flight schools, located in and around populated areas with busy airline airports nearby, are filling the remaining airspace with training airplanes. North of Denver the training flights are all squeezed into the same "Practice Area" airspace that is out of the way of the airline approach and departure traffic. The tall mountains west of Denver also limits the available training airspace. So students from four airports North of the Denver area are all practicing their training maneuvers in the same general area. These flights include steep turns, 'S' turns, turns about a point, right and left 360 degree turns, stalls and stall recovery, climbs, and decent's just to name a few. These erratic (as in not straight and level) practice maneuvers can distract both the student and the instructor from being 100% vigilant of other training flights and air traffic that are all concentrated in the rather limited airspace that again... the flight school designates as "The Practice Area".
Primary training flights are seldom in contact with ATC or on any flight plan when practicing maneuvers.
Straight and level general aviation flight's transiting through these practice areas just adds to the congestion and the risk of a collision. Air Traffic Controllers are often too busy to advise VFR pilots of anything more than "Numerous Targets In The Area".
If the FAA has had any advisory to students, instructors, or GA pilots about this congested area, it has not reached the GA pilot community or been indicated on any charts.
Residents living beneath these practice areas are witness to, and complaining about the constant annoyance of airplane noise generated by these continuous training flights. Some are using flight tracking software to ID the offending planes and have been very vocal with their complaints. They've feared that it was just a matter of time before two planes would merge into the same place, at the same time, at the same altitude, and fall to the ground in their neighborhood. Sadly, on the morning of Sept 17, 2022, this happened immediately east of the town of Nywot, Colorado.
Excellent point on the Class B airspace and being at a greater risk of collisions. I would also say if your altitude is close to the base altitude of the outer Class B Ring you are more vulnerable. Most pilots are pushing that base.
IFR or Communication with position reports between pilots is the key to avoid collisions!!
Well done as always sir! psssst would be curious on your take regarding the 777 "throwing sparks" leaving Newark and had to hold 90 mins to get down to weight before returning. United says it was a "hydraulic pump issue". All safe.
Thanks!
I recall some statistics from over 20 years ago pointing out that about 50% of all mid-air collisions happen when turning on final approach to a runway. And something like 80% occur somewhere in the airport pattern. In an earlier era, we operated on what most called the "Big Sky Theory" --meaning that the aircraft are small, and they're not numerous enough, nor are they flying similar paths and altitudes to get in each other's way. With the steady growth of controlled airspaces, though, traffic is getting squeezed in to smaller and smaller boxes, driving the likelihood of mid-air collisions upward. It might be a good idea if someone studied the ASRS databases for close encounters of aircraft with each other to see what has changed.
Here at SMX not all aircraft have their ADS-B on. Some of the military doing touch and go have ADS-B off.
A few months ago the Shark Week Blimp was flying around without ADS-B.
I host a Flight Aware site. Great videos, I don't miss any.
Those high risk areas in the Denver area seem to be right in line with the VFR Flyway that runs North/South on the west side of downtown. Back when I was a private pilot I headed up through there a handful of times. If I didn’t want to bother with clearance through the Bravo I would use the Flyway (it was about 50-50 if you would get cleared through the bravo or routed west along the mountains). Once whEn I did flight following through the Bravo I had a guy off my left who was faster and as soon as he got ahead of me he made a hard right bank straight at me just southwest of downtown. I didn’t think, just reacted and shoved the yoke forward. Both me and my passenger floated out of our seats but we avoided the collision. I notified ATC, but that guy wasn’t on frequency. Pissed me right off.
The Bakersfield area is pretty terrible as well. Controllers at BFL do their best but the CAU students and instructors are clueless. I had multiple instances of those guys turning into me or them doing some other dumb thing when I was flying pipeline out there.
I was taught vertical only when cleaning windscreens and the reason I was given was horizontal scratches hide the wires that exist in my country
vertical hides the extremely thin trees that exist in my country
100% agree on your closing remarks here. Its all about tools in your toolbox and how you use them to be safe. Foreflight with ADS-B and alerts is a great tool for GA. I hear traffic on the radio as well but as those of you who fly GA know they can often be not very accurate or just not made. As a student pilot there is nothing that scares me more than a mid-air.
Are they expensive. ?????😳😳😳😳😳😳
@@daveboon5992 Everything in aviation is expensive 😂
@@tyjacobs6151 Sorry for that because this equipment ( as in many many vehicles road & air Garmin do reasonable GPS trackers ( I have that tells me all that info from around the world height/speed/direction What the Fxxk do they not have iPhones Twats 😡😡😡😡
@@tyjacobs6151 Obliviously people have a death wish !! Just don’t kill another for your own stupidity 😡😡😡
Agree. I fly IFR 99% of the time for that reason even with CAVU.
Great presentation