The 4070ti is pretty much the same as the 3090 performance wise, but massively more efficient, and it does all the new Nvidia stuff like 'DLSS' 3. I really don't get why you'd buy a used 3090, unless you need the 24GB of VRAM.
@gooro absolutely false, especially if you don't mind playing at high textures instead of ultra 12gb is good enough for gaming, 24gb is too much for gaming. What does hurt the 4k gaming perf is the 192 bit bus on the 4070ti, but IMO it's still fine for 4k gaming if you're OK with 60fps instead of 120fps.
DLSS Quality got so good, that consumers and even reviewers consider them Native res now. So when the card struggles to play 4k at DLSS QUALITY, that's actually worse, because that means the card is struggling at 1440p natively. Companies are banking on you changing your mind about fake frames in the future.
I went with the 3090 since the extra VRAM makes a big difference for Blender and Davinci Resolve, but purely for gaming yeah 4070 Ti makes the most sense
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI???
HI, great video as always! I have been testing the 4070 Ti as well, and in some games like Plague Tale Requiem, with 4K, Ultra, and Ray Tracing shadows on, I noticed that I get very close to the 12gb of VRAM, and the 192 bit bus seems to cause some stutters too - did you notice anything like that? If I remove ray tracing, and turn on DLSS, it is smooth again. This is only at 4K as well
What you see is allocated, does not mean it is used. Only games that sometimes can need more VRAM are flight sims in VR with high end sets (and there even 4090 is not enough).
Allocation =/= use. My 4090 rarely even allocates 12 at 4k max Rt despite being designed to use as much as possible and even if it does it never USES more than 10. On a 4070 ti the use would be even lower, similar to my 3080 USING around 5-7 even in the most demanding Vr games like Alyx at 1.7x res of the quest 2 which is almost as demanding as 8k.
In one of his previous videos Daniel noted that using Ray Tracing actually increases the load on the CPU. I'm just speculating of course, but maybe you're starting to become CPU bottlenecked with all of those settings including RT maxed out, hence the small stutters?
monitor hz and frames? stuttering and tearing can be caused by the monitor or gpu if the frame are over the "limit", you can solve stuttering with a sync tech while tearing just limiting the max fps to the monitor hz -0,1
I chose an rtx 3090 over 4070 ti for my build because I needed a workstation card for my "workstation&gaming pc" - with blender and unreal engine stuff to do, that 24 gb of vram is a must
I do a lot of various stuff and for me the av1 encoding, and the two nvenc all hardware based is too juicy. I also use it for AI stuff and it just has some stuff no card before it has to help with this stuff. If the 4080 would drop to 800, 4070ti to 600 the 4080 would be mine. As it stands ALL of them are far too expensive and I am a 1060 guy trying to upgrade. Not happening until Nvidia pulls their head out of their ass and has realistic pricing again.
If you are a flight simmer and use VR headset. I'd either keep or buy the 3090. I recently returned its bigger brother 4080 and kept my 3090 due to both MSFS and DCS were often out of VRAM in game. When in game with the 3090, VRAM mostly hovers around 18-19gb utilized. I am waiting for the 4080 ti which have more VRAM in it than the 4080 (16gb).
I know this is an older video, but in the current market, a used 3080 Ti is the best value card at high-end prices, at least for 4k gaming. I don't know what it costs in USA in the second-hand market, but here in Finland it's 600€. A 4070 Ti new is 900€. As the 3080 Ti is within 2-4% of the 3090 gaming performance, there is no reason to buy a used 3090 for gaming, as it's much more expensive.
I got a used 3090 with a 3-month guarantee for 72% of the price of the new 4070 Ti. I plan to use it for a few years and I think the VRAM requirements might increase a lot when it finally next-gen games will be released.
3090 easy + 384 bit memory bus + 24 GB ram more then enough any future games as games and 4k/RT get more demanding. 4070ti - cut down 192 memory bus. - 12 GB isn’t going be enough Vram. Consider BOTH current gen consoles are 16 GB. Dev are going be targeting 16 GB Vram that as standard for 2023/24+ and beyond. With UE 5.1 becoming standard. More games for 4k/RT will require more Vram. Not less. True GPUs prices are still insane. And RTX 4xxx and Amd RDNA3 are still way over priced. Both are waste of time Imo. Better buy used RTX 3xxx or amd 6xxxx imo.
The 4070 TI has slightly better peformance at 30% lower power draw. Pretty good for the new upper mid tier card versus the high end from the previous gen.
@@sorinpopa1442 So what .... What does wasted memory bring to the table other than wasting your money for something you aren't going to use anyway? And obviously the narrower memory bus isn't hurting the performance compared to the 3090 ..... The 4070 Ti might get slightly better performance at 4K with a 384 bit bus (your only other choice with 12 GB memory) but at 1440p it's not going to make much of a difference. Plus having the 4080 with 16 GB and a 256 bit bus it wouldn't make much sense to give a lower tier card like the 4070 a 384 bit bus
I just got a 4070ti last week and one thing I have to mention is this card is extremely quiet, cool and efficient, I can't say a bad thing about it but it's price.
@Garrus Vakarian 3080s msrp adjusted for inflation is 800$ so the 4070 ti is providing a pretty average Gen on Gen uplift of 30%. At the same price point but one thing people keep missing is that if you have a 3060ti/above you don’t NEED to upgrade. Of course this card will look like bad value from the perspective of someone who wants to upgrade within a single Gen.
@Garrus Vakarian hardware unboxed had it at a 28% uplift at 1440p and no the average isn’t 50-60%, that’s only the last couple gens which skews your perception. Most people in the com would agree 30% is average across all SKUs Gen on Gen.
Also pay attention to the temps -- 4070ti is 3-8 degrees cooler too. Plus having a warrantee would push me to that if I were looking in that price or performance range
Great video and information! I do some gaming on my PC, mainly editing. But on the rare occasions I do renders on it. My current issue with my 2070 super keeps running out of memory to render using Float32. So as much as I'd want a new GPU (the 4070ti) you answered my question at the end there. I think I'm going to go with the 3090 just for all that VRAM. That way i have the power for gaming, but the memory for rendering when I need it!
Dear Daniel, very much like your channel and your great approach on analyzing and comparing GPUs. Since I am 100 % flight simmer, I would really appreciate if you could include Microsoft Flight Simulator into your standard benchmark list. I know, that there are some challenges because there is no standard in-game-benchmark included, but may be you could use certain landing challenges or discovery flights as a standard testing scenario. The community of flight simmers is continuously growing and the GPU - loading scenario applied by MSFS 2020 is quite unique and demanding, which makes it really interesting for your typical in-depth-comparisons.
Agree. MSFS is such a unique gaming demand that it needs to be examined, more so than some other random console-PC title or whether a 1080 shooter gets 250 or 260 fps.
@@LukewarmEnthusiast yes sure, you are right. I will keep on flying on my 3090 and will wait until any of good options with DLSS 3 will be available and also affordable. May be a kind of 4080 Ti would be a good choice for 1000 dollar in 1. 5 years or so
I have a 4070ti and use flight simulator. It's night and day. You can use the DLSS Frame Generation without turning on DLSS. You can just use TAA. Games runs and looks amazing
Huge difference in power draw between the two cards. As a direct comparison the 4070ti works out better due to the hugely reduced power draw which will save you a lot of money in the long run.
Assuming the 4070ti uses 75Watt less then the 3090, playing 8 hours everyday -> 219kWh/year. Price for currently 1 kWh: 40cents (here in Luxembourg its 25 Cents, but the avarage of Europe is higher) saves you 88 Euros per year. Considering that most people do not play 8 hours a day, but most convenient might be half the hours will divide the price also by 2. Not relevant imho. But marketing got you.
@@erLexo Most people keep their cards for multiple years and use their PC for more than just games. It's drawing closer to 100W so round it up to 50 a year. Thats $200 in 4 years with the added bonus of DLSS 3.0. Still wouldn't buy either card at current prices though.
i think it all goes down on at what price you can get the cards in your region. For me new 3090 was 700$ (VAT included) vs 4070 Ti (850$) (same model ) so 150$ went into other PC parts.
I was looking at a used 3090 and 4070Ti and I went with the 4070Ti. My reason was I play at 1440p and the 4070Ti is slightly better at that resolution for the same price, lower power draw, I got a warranty by buying new, and the 4070Ti has frame generation which is a game changer in the game I play the most. It's a no brainer to go 4070Ti for me. I also sold my old GPU on Jawa ;)
Yeah these are the reasons why. Warranty is 100% great if you aren't reselling. You could maybe justify the 3090 if you did any kind of work with the 24GB VRAM. Also the size, some of the 4000 series gpus are HUGE. You should try r/hardwareswap, Jawa's 9% seller fees suck now :(
It's not slightly better, it's significantly better. I would avoid paying much attention to youtube videos like this. 4070ti is honestly on par with 3090ti.
thanks for ruining the market and supporting nvidia :) your next upgrade to xx70 class card will cost you 1200 dollars and that will be thanks to the customers like you, good job on klling the market bob
DLSS 3.0 implementation in plague tale requiem is amazing, couldn't tell the difference visually while I doubled the framerate and cut the power usage in almost half
I'm using it in Witcher 3 with ray tracing on a 4080 and it looks amazing and over 100fps at 1440p.. again, thats with ultra settings, max ray tracing and hair effects
Yep, just played through it myself on the 4070 Ti at 4K with DLSS Balanced and DLSS 3, never dropped below 100 fps, many times being over 120 even (all this while drawing 200w on average), incredible experience. I hope it spreads as quickly as DLSS did, I want it in every single player game.
Hopefully amd comes out with FSR 3 and frame generation soon. I am banking on it. Will equal the "feature" field a lot. "Despite just launching FidelityFX Super Resolution (FSR) 2.0 in June, AMD just announced FSR 3.0 at its RDNA 3 launch event - along with a new piece of tech AMD is calling Fluid Motion Frames. We don’t have a ton of details yet, but FSR 3.0 looks to go toe-to-toe with Nvidia’s Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS) by generating unique frames all on its own. According to AMD, FSR 3.0 will provide up to twice the frame rate as FSR 2.0, which seems to come exclusively from the Fluid Motion Frames technology. AMD hasn’t shared any details on how this tech works, but the company confirmed that it is using frame generation similar to Nvidia’s recently released DLSS 3." www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-fsr-3-announcement-frame-generation/
DLSS 3 is off to a good start but it still needs some work. It’s probably a couple updates away from being truly great. It’s easy to feel the added input lag and it’s easy to spot visual hiccups caused by frame generation
Im worried about the 24gb vs 12gb vram issue. I just got a 3090, it heats up my room when gaming, but I dont have to worry about running out of vram any time soon.
@@VFXShawn Run an undervolt. My 3090 was heating up my room too lol, now it doesn't get above 75c under load for very demanding games. Less demanding maintains in the 60cs.
@@Colt45nTwoZigZagz Thanks, I was looking at replacing the thermal paste and pads but the entire process scares me to no end, I once opened up my Oculus controllers to replace the joysticks and destroyed them, I have zero confidence in my ability to pull off such a risky fix. I have been undervolting but idle temps are still 60 :(
I ended up going with the 3090. That 24GB VRAM is a HUGE under sight for work focused builds + future proofing. I figured the 3090 gives me a better overall PC build. I just got one for $778 USD including taxes & shipping. That's a no brainer to me. I appreciate you making this video, it helped me solidify my choice.
I'm going to get a 3090 this week for about $500 I think it's a steal compared to the 4070ti at $800, everyone's main complaint about the 4070ti is the lack of VRAM saying 12GB is pathetic, but then people say the 3090 is overkill on the VRAM I don't get it (tbf 16GB is probably enough but surely more is better than less)
Even though my budget is around mid range, I am thinking of spending a bit more just for the VRAM and bigger memory bus. The 4070ti is quick but not strong, i've had 12gb in my 3060 for years now and i constantly see it beeing too little.
I recently picked up a 4070ti and for it's price it was the best value choice, in terms of new prices it's much cheaper than a 3080ti or 3090 whilst having similar performance and cheaper to run, it was only a bit more than a 3080 and the 4080 is about 50% more money for around 25% performance. I've had an absolutely great time with this GPU
Still loving it after a couple months? I have a 7700x/4070ti build in the works and I'm super excited. I'm coming from a 8700/gtx1080 build and I primarily use it for sim racing in VR. I can't wait to crank the settings.
@@angryginger791 yeah thats a great combo! The 4070ti is a beast at 1440p but temps stay cool and power draw is efficient. Real big jump in performance from your last build. Enjoy!
yep just got mine for 700$ open box and am about to sell my 3070 strix to a co-worker for 350$ that wants to upgrade from a 2060. SO now its 350$ out of pocket...and i got my 3070 from flipping a 2080ti and its $$$ to buy multiple 5700xts which i then flipped...I kind of laugh at my friend that spent 1600$ out of pocket for a 3080 q2 2021 NGL. Meanwhile i used a 2080ti strix...to fund my 3070strix purchase and my 5900x+x570 tomahawk for effectively FREE. The 2ghz OC 2080ti or pushing 5700xt's to 2ghz....was hot and loud with vram hot spots among them....hell even the ampere FE cards had VRAM heat problems. Still to have something simliar to my 2080ti strix at near half the cost/price....and pair it with the TEMPS/NOISE of operation the 3070 strix brings to the table and it was a HUGE QOL increase on top of having a more modern CPU/RAm/CHIPSET to push better GPU to their potential.
I think you are right about the cache situation, the 4070 Ti has 8 times the L2 cache compared to the 3090 (48 MBs vs 6 MBs) This is a huge jump that is easily explained by Nvidia switching from the half EUV Samsung "8nm" node to the fully EUV TSMC "4N" node. The manufacturing differences are more closer to a two generation jump than one, and TSMC's process can fit a lot more cache on the die than any other. But the 4N node is about 50% more expensive per wafer that 6N node that AMD is using for the RX 7000 series, and AMD is also using a chiplet design, which means more chips per wafer. The node alone explains why the 4000 series is so expensive, and calls into question why the AMD cards are so close in price to the 4000 series if their manufacturing cost is at least 50% lower, if not more. It baffles me that no one is calling out AMD for their unsatisfyingly high prices, while everyone is doing so with Nvidia.
AMD was already using a larger L2 cache with their last generation so their 256 bit bus could compete with the 384 bit bus Nvidia was using at the high end and in most games it does seem to work .... I don't really care about the bus size or "theoretical" throughput, I care about how it performs in games ..... One of the first things you learn as an Electronics Engineer is theory and reality are often two wildly different things
@@longjohn526 Indeed, RDNA 2 was really impressive when it came out. The TSMC 7nm process gave it a nice edge against the "8nm" Samsung node that Ampere was made on, and that "infinity cache" really did bridge the gap with the memory bandwidth. It's basically the same idea behind the X3D CPUs, bringing in more cache so that the memory bandwidth is less of an issue.
That Jawa site looks awesome. I wish people in Canada could buy from it. All we mostly have is overpriced thieves on Kijiji. $400 for a 6yr old gtx 1080 and the seller plays absolutely dumb when you ask if the card was mined with.. "What is gpu mining? My card is absolutely Mint! ..We can meet at a gas station. $400 firm." 🤔
i got a used 3090 for 200$ less than a 4070ti for about the same performance (ignoring dlss 3 of course) and more vram, which I needed for VR. so im pretty happy overall.
You guys call out Nvidia and AMD for their fake frames, but you also consider DLSS Quality as native res. Where is that same energy? The 4070 ti is running cyberpunk smoothly at *1080p Upscaled* ( 1440p ), with all the settings at high. I bet if Nvidia fixes their latency, you will start viewing dlss2 and dlss3 in "like terms" manner. That's how everyone sees Dlss quality now. The 4070 ti is a modern Triple-A *1080p* GPU. If you start calling them for what they are, you will dictate what value these GPU ought to have, and will pressure companies into making better value GPU's again.
Ive been researching this all day today and I came to the same conclusion you have. My buddy is selling his Gigabyte 3090 ti for $700 so I decided to compare it to similar priced products and the 4070ti is what I decided to go with.
The 3090Ti is actually measurably better than the 3090, it performs about 10% better than the 3090 which would make it match or beat the 4070Ti in most/all of these benchmarks. It would put itself over the top, so unless you really wanted a card that draws a smaller amount of power (the 3090Ti draws even more than 3090, the TDP is 450w - yikes!) I would have gotten the 3090Ti especially considering buying from a buddy is $700 flat and the 4070Ti is $800 + tax.
There are multiple RTX 3080 second hand, some with 1 year of warranty, for €600. Would you buy those at this point in time? I can wait for the 4070 but I fear it will cost way more.
Just to edit my post 8 months later. I have come across two new games that require more then 12gb of Vram just to turn on the epic setting in the options for certain graphics settings. I honestly never thought we would get to the point where we would need more then 12gb of vram for a 3440 x 1440 resolution, but we have come to that point. Back when I purchased my cards we were just getting out of the bitcoin mining nightmare, where you couldn't buy any cards anywhere. I'm currently waiting for a pcie 5 generation gpu for my current system. I'm hoping that the 50 series cards are pcie 5 and the 5090 should have 24gb of vram. If I were to have to purchase a gpu right now for some reason, I wouldn't get anything with less then 16gb of vram. I have 3 pcs all with the exact same components. Literally from the power supplies to extra fans in the cases. The only differences are the graphics cards. I have a EVGA rtx3080ti, a RTX3090 founders edition, and a RTX4070ti. The RTX4070TI is definitely what I would recommend buying if you had a choice. When playing games, all 3 systems play all the games I like at max graphics with no issues. The reason I say buy a RTX4070ti is it uses less then half the power that the rtx3090fe uses. At idle, my RTX3090FE uses around 401watts!!!! So your getting basically the same performance, for less power, less heat, less money, and you would be getting a new card vs. A used card. The RTX3090fe does have double the VRAM, but even at 4k I haven't found any games that have used anywhere close to using the 24gb of VRAM is has. Although I've heard the last of us release is so poorly programmed it will use whatever your card will let it. Lol 😅 but I haven't had the chance to test it.
I'm so glad you made such in depth comparison, For me it's a very similar performance, and I've choose the 3090 because of the VRAM that is important for AI. Found a used one for half the price of a new 4070ti. Buy used ones especially now that price is going to spike up a lot
Daniel thanks for the video. I always like your honest comparisons. Please keep up the great work you do. Would you consider testing MSFS 2020 as one of your gaming tests for us Flightsimmers?
I was considering the 4080 until I found a 3090 for 600 locally. Since I'm cheap I bought the 3090 and plan on using that until I can find a used 4000 series card for a decent price.
@@doriangray2347 guess it pays to monitor Facebook marketplace. I have noticed things that used to sell immediately are taking time to sell now. Mostly game consoles and video cards are the main ones.
Finding 3090 at $800 or less, I'll take it any day of the week over the 4070 Ti. That 12GB of VRAM is gonna bottleneck an otherwise decent card. It should've at least has 16GB and I can't believe people would take such a tasteless deal. I'd rather look at AMD's offering from last gen if I just purely went into gaming
just like apes thinking 3070 with its joke 8GB Vram a good card or 3080 with 10GB is good enough. many ppl fell for the garbage 3070 and now that card is struggling because lack of Vram.
The 3090 is more expensive now because there aren't many of them left - I bought a 3090 back when the 4090/80 were released at a decent price since I figured it would suit my needs better (mixed gaming and compute stuff)
Gonna go with the 4070ti on this one. Supports dlss3, lower power usage, lower heat, slightly better performance, and you can pick any model and brand you want cause they’re in stock. The only singular reason anyone should get a budget 3090 is if they actually need the 24GB of VRAM which is a very small number of people.
There is big difference that should be used when comparing these 2 cards and that is amount of memory. For some uses its more important to have 24 Gigs of mem then 12 gigs.
As games get more demanding the 12GB VRAM on the 4070 Ti will become a bottleneck at 4K resolution. For example in the benchmark of Horizon Zero Dawn at 4K the RTX 3090 used more than 12GB VRAM.
@@lifemocker85 12gb is more than enough for 1440p… don’t forget you can’t use other gpus vram usage as a 1:1 comparison. My 3080 never USED more than 6gb in the most demanding Rt games at 1440p but a 6800xt would allocate more than 11 in the same game as modern gpus will allocate/use as much as they can
@@Drip7914 no its not. some games NOW use around 10gb so its bottleneckd sooner than its really otherwise necessary to new it. thats why they gimped 70 serie gpus that you end up losing money
If you want vram and use your computer for anything productivity related the 3090 seems to be a better choice. Fake frames are cool and all but ai and rendering really appreciates the wider memory bus and more vram.
Wow, Daniel, you LISTEN! If I wasn't a subscriber... now I would be. You material were great already, but spending your precious time on creating stuff that responds to the community is a level above that. Thank you!
I'd take the 4070Ti. DLSS 3, lower temps, longer Warranty, lower TDP (yay, wouldn't have to upgrade my power supply). I'm on a 3070 Founders Edition and I play most games at 1440p and a few at 4k on a 48in OLED. Just tune my graphics, not in the market. $800, eh, maybe a used 4070Ti would tempt me sub $750. 😅
man you have a 3070, you don t really need a 4070ti. What should I say with my 1060 and 750ti? I m looking for a 60 with good performance and price but I think it will never come
nvm the fps yields the noise of operation and temps is NIGHT and day NGL....5700xt though competitive at the time/launch....had some of the most terrible END USER experiences ive seen for a would be "flagship" sku/product. The reference 5700XT is like a mandatory UV or else 90c+ vrm and vram. They had mounting issues with the 5700xt strix...and even the 5700xt tuf needed a 2.0 version as well XD.
I do wonder how the performance difference would be with the 3090 if it was undervolted which can cut up to 100W from it's peak load, and allow it to run closer to the 2000mhz clock vs what I saw was all below 1900Mhz for it's core. The same can probably be done on the 4070Ti, but considering the 3090 is a founders with no OC out of the box, there is a chunk of performance and power savings left on the table there since when they came out they were overvolting the heck out of them out of the box.
As an average but avid gamer, this is simply a practical issue. On release, a prebuilt computer with a 3090 was at very best $3500. On release, a prebuilt computer with a 4070 Ti is at best $2500. It's simply a better value for gaming and why buy used when you can buy new and get equal to better gaming performance new.
Personally I'd still go with a 3090 if I could get it used. I mod games and you need quite a bit of vram if you want to use texture mods or enb/reshade.
@@liftedcj7on44s Why are you such a ass 🤣 The man was asking a simple question. Also unless you're modding with 8k textures there's no need for more than 12 gb right now lol
@@liftedcj7on44s I mod games as well. Been doing for it 12 years. VRAM is entirely dependent on use case and optimization for said cards. For example, a 24gb card can actual run worse on a 12gb card based on the game. It’s also dependent on future proof and what other games you play. If you’re only planning on using your card for a modded out skyrim, get a 3090. If you’re doing more than that, a 4070ti makes more sense because of future use cases.
@@liftedcj7on44s in terms of what? Future cases? You realize that a 4070ti has software integration that double fps. Thats the future case if you want that. Also, more vram doesnt necessarily mean better performance despite textures. I’ve done testing using my titan rtx and a 4080. Ran it with highly modded skyrim. The titan rtx had lower fps than a 4080 despite vram being maxed out with a 4080. More vram =/= in better performance in all situations.
Hey there.. I replaced my 3090 with a 4070 TI. The biggest reason was the lower power draw, the next reason was to leverage the newer features. At $799 it's actually a good value in today's GPU market. Cheers Rick
lmao. $800 for a 70 series card that comes with only 12GB Vram. still ppl calling it "good" GPU market. Ngreedia has already infiltrated the minds of consumers.
I'm thinking about these cards for a new sim racing pc. I'll be running triple 32" 1440p 165hz monitors. Is the extra vram more important on the cards for the triple screens, or is there something else to look out for on a gpu that will mainly only see racing games? Not sure which direction to go for this, any recommendations? I plan on pairing with a 7800x3d. Thanks!
I decided to buy a second hand 3090 RTX for gaming. I think VRAM will become more important than DLSS3.0 If you undervolt the 3090 than it’s an amazing card that could perform in 4K better than the 4070TI in future games. Also there will be FSR 3 in future …
I need the 24GB of VRAM because I'm sick and tired of having to upgrade due to VRAM limits. I've had a 4GB 580, a 6GB 980Ti, and now an 8GB 3070 over the past 6 years. I've only had the 3070 for 1.5 years and it's already not enough. The consoles have 16GB and Nvidia is still putting 8-12GB in overpriced cards. Done with it. I'll take the used 24GB 3090. (I'd go team red, but I do dabble in VR, raytracing, and some productivity things that they're just not supporting that well right now)
@@Actiatam because ur kinda noob. u don't know what to buy. And RTX 3070 was awful trash garbage GPU. If instead u bought an RX 6700XT (which has 12GB Vram), you'd still be using it right now, just like myself. Way better than junk RTX 3070.
I still find it a bit daring to compare a retail product to a used one, but it looks like even that can't save Ampere at this point. Great video as always.
In this case I think it makes sense. You're comparing performance at a specific price point. All things being equal, I would definitely go with the new 4070Ti over a used 3090. But, if the 3090 could produce 10-15% better performance, it might be a more difficult choice. In this case, as far as I can see, the 4070 and 3090 are pretty much equivalent. 5% differences here or there are close to the margin of error.
The moment you install a new graphics card into your PC and load its drivers into windows, you now have a used graphics card. What actually matters is whether the card is still covered by its manufacturer warranty.
@@rangersmith4652 What actually matters is the remaining duration of the warranty and how hard the product has been stressed. 2 year old mining cards are not equal to your day old card, nor are they equal to 2 year old average gamer cards.
@@ForlebTF Somewhat true. But a used card that works the day you first install it is probably going to keep working until the end of its warranty and well beyond whether it has been lightly used for 30 days or mined on 24/7 for 30 months. A card in either category can fail within warranty, or can fail the day after its warranty expires. Same for a card that's only had one owner. But they usually don't.
@@Synful_ a few weeks ago it was, in germany, and the 3090ti i think you can still get for the same price and also new, but i wouldtake the 4070ti instead
Just wanted to point out that in Horizon zero dawn the 3090 was using a good bit more than 12 gb of vram, not sure if that is limiting the 4070 ti and would explain the performance disadvantage. It is weird though as the 4070 ti was in the low 11 gb range. If that is the case we could see the 12 gb of vram be a limiting factor for future games in 4k.
In future games the graphics will get more demanding too so there is no reason to focus on 4k with these cards. 1440p + high refresh gaming is more recent and will last years with these cards. But 4070Ti is a better option cause its cheaper (if u dont buy used and maybe cryto mined cards which might get broken) and 4070ti is way more efficent compared to the 3090 and delivers a bit more fps in 1440p. 12 GB Vram will be also enough for years in this resolution, thats why I dont get it why people still want 256bit 16gb. If they would have made this, the price would be much higher but for the performance improvement this wouldnt be worth it. This card is energy efficent and will probably last forever undervolted in 1080p with a 360Hz 24' monitor and something like a 13600k or the upcoming X3D cpus.
@@AlienGurke Yeah I only brought this up because Mr Owen didn't point out this possible vram limitation in 4k. However, I still think people paying this much for a graphics card would want to use 4k even if it isn't what the card is "meant for."
FORGET NVIDIA. 1200 for a 4080 for 4k games. what a joke. 800 bucks for a 4070ti with only 12 gb video memory? no thanks. rather have a 6950xt with 16gb and only 4% slower overall than 4070ti than support nvidias greed, PLUS CALLING 4070TI A 4080 12gb, WHAT A JOKE, forget you nvida. I AM DONE , evga left, so did I !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are the most honest gear comparison youtuber out there. Your analysis is always down to earth and about our real gamer experience. Thanks. Keep the good work!
Today the 4070ti is faster. I'm willing to bet you'll be upgrading from the 4070ti sooner than a 3090/ti due to growing VRAM usage in games over the next few years though. Mod heavy games are going to choke on that low VRAM as well.
Great comparison video Daniel! I was in the same boat as all of the others who are considering going used 3090 over a 4070Ti. I too would've picked the 4070Ti but as an SFF enjoyer, it was too great of a hassle to find out which SKU would fit my ZX-1. I picked up a used TUF 3090 from ebay for $700 and I am very happy with it, knowing I also don't have to mess with any of the 12VHPWR shenanigans.
What shenanigans? Only a tiny fraction of people actually had issues, and they were only with the 4090's... That stuff was blown out of proportion by people that couldn't get one.
@@jkell411 I'd have to go out of my way to buy the cable if I didnt want to use Nvidia's adapter, which I will surely consider using in an SFF case. Availability is a nonissue for me as I live next to a Microcenter
The 3090 is the better card for 4K - it will be more needed for future games. So you have to decide between DLSS3 and 12GB more vram. I have choose. The 3090 and I am happy with it.
i feel like you're really underselling Frame Gen. In a single player game, where your base frame rate is over 60, Frame Gen can get you close to or over 100 fps of smoothness, while retaining the overall experience of the game. In Cyberpunk 2077, I basically can't tell the difference between Framegen 120fps and NON-framegen 120fps at a lower setting. If the true framerate is below 60, you definitely can feel it, but visually it's almost impossible to spot the framegen artifacts while you're playing.
This video kind of exemplifies my thoughts on this card. It's basically a cheaper 3090 that doesn't need a 1000 watt psu. I could actually drop this card into my PC right now with a 750w PSU and have a 3090 tier of performance with savings on my power bill. That's not to say it's not overpriced, it really is. But I was already considering getting a RX 6950 xt at only $40 less and consumes like 100+ watts more power and would require a new PSU. The power draw of the 4070 ti is what makes it actually look good to me despite the high price. If the price goes down a little I will consider it even more.
Try aiming for a higher PSU so you don't happen to kill your newer gpu in the future, despite what it's suggested ratings might be. Safe than sorry my friend.
@@Drip7914 Interesting. The VRAM for sure, but wouldn't the 192 bit be a bottleneck issue? Also, I heard 12 gb is also going to be limiting in the future, when even Skyrim VR with mods can take up 18 gb of VRAM.
Did no one notice that 3090 appeared to be much more smooth in motion than the 4070ti ? 4070 Ti often had spikes and bad frames/cut frames for some reason. 3090 was always buttery smooth i wonder why that is
GPU RAM is a big deal. Having enough is really crucial, but I have noticed that the 4070 ti seems to use less than the 3090 here. Could the card be fast enough that it keeps usage lower? EDIT: at 1440p
@@airhogglider You can but you will sacrifice performance .On my old 3080 12gb stable was 1920 0.9v 320w maxpower 1735 0.818 220w and diffrence was 10% in fps.
@@tunghon2230 personally I’d rather buy new than 2nd hand. 3yr warranty , return service and also know the card hasn’t been abused crypto mining. Too many risks buying used.
I believe the 4070 Ti is dropping into a tie with the 3090 in 4K, when they are performing same at 4K. Meaning the 4070 Ti is hindered in the 4K resolution, possibly by the in my opinion very low performance memory bus. The 4070 Ti is simply performing alot worse due to this memory bandwith, I believe. What will come in a year or two when 1440P will be more demanding? NOT ok for a xx70 Ti-class card, and too expensive as well. The 4070 Ti should have been made with better memory bus. So the 3090 does not catch up to 4070 Ti at 4K, instead the 4070 Ti drops to 3090-performance. Just my take on it. What do you think? With best regards.
It pays to have good friends and to be a good friend in return. This makes me feel even better about buying my bro’s seldom used 3090 for $650. I’d rather spend it with someone I know instead of paying Nvidia’s inflated prices.
So I had a 1070 since it's launch in 2016 along with the birth of the modern VR movement. January of 2022, I finally had the funds to make the plunge and buy a 3070. As a 1440 gamer who doesn't play any competitive or PVP type games, I am golden with anything I play at 1440 on my humble 3070. I don't think I will need to upgrade anytime soon, not until at least the 5070 comes out at the end of the year and even then I will most likely wait until it is close to the middle of it's life cycle so I could get it at a discount.
I got a used 3090 strix in great condition for 800€ in germany where 4070 ti's start at 900€ so I think I got a decent deal. especially since it's a strix and a 4070 ti tuf (let alone strix) goes for more like 1000€
Same thing I did in Poland. Used 3090's are 150€ cheaper. It's not decent, it's a no-brainer kind of deal. DLSS 3.0 and higher efficienty aren't worth that much.
@@JonVon_you guys are lucky... I'm just about to buy one of them, but unfortunately the used 3090's in the Netherlands are only ~€50 less than a new 4070ti :( Makes it really difficult but I can't justify not buying a new item :(
@@xntumrfo9ivrnwf maybe you can buy the cheapest 4070 ti, there's very little performance difference between oc and non oc version, also for example between the msi and the strix there isn't even 2% performance difference also
Don't forget about the used market, folks. I've just bought a used 3090 with an EK waterblock for 700€. It is still under warranty for 6 months. This is a rare deal but getting one for 800-900€ is totally realistic these days.
Thanks for another banger video Daniel. I was wondering if you could do a test with these higher end gpus on competitive games? Such as valorant, csgo, fortnite etc on competitive graphics settings like low. I understand these are cpu bound, but as higher refresh rate monitors become more common, I'm curious on the actual impact on a better gpu. Thanks!
There's no way I'd ever buy a used GPU over a new one when the new one is performing slightly better overall, at the same price. The 3090 would have to be in really good condition with low usage AND be significantly cheaper than the 4070 ti before I'd ever consider buying a used GPU. Maybe if the 3090 was $400 I'd risk buying a used GPU. Great video, thank you for presenting your findings. Have a good one man.
@@austintow4074 How do I trust a seller that I don't t know? People's moral compasses are so fucked nowadays I don't know how they walk straight. Glad yours worked out for you.
Got a 3090 today "used" as in no box, but still had the plastic covering on it. $600. Plus i upgraded from my 3080 so i can resell it so maybe $200 out of pocket for the 3090 at the end of the day hah.But yeah maybe i lucked out. The power draw is cool on the 4070 though, plus DLSS 3. But the fps gain is minimal (atleast compared to a 3090).
I've been building PC's since 1995 and have almost always bought used GPUs and have NEVER had one not work or fail. I realize mining is a wrench in that, and I would probably avoid 3090's and 3080/10GB's unless I knew the previous owner.
I'd say the 3090 is a bit more future proof with its 24gigs of vram comparing it to the 4070ti. However, the 4070ti takes the crown on power usage and clocks.
Having a 3090 Tuf and an rtx 4070ti ventus x3, I can tell you right now, the 4070ti is the card to get. Oh yeah, and dlss 3.5 is only available on 4000 series too. You gotta take into consideration that the cores are running near 150% of the speed of the 3090 when you look at the 4070ti.
If you want to play at 1440p, get the 4070Ti. Get the 3090 if you're playing at 4K as the 192-bit bus of the 4070Ti will gimp that card in the future. Plus the extra VRAM on the 3090 will make it last far longer.
@@dragontales1999 no high budget Ray tracing title coming out will not support both. Who has to play native with heavy RT? Show me where? DLSS looks better than native in a ton of titles. Most games "native" is TAA, which has much worse ghosting issues than quality DLSS and runs way worse. DLSS 2.5.1 in quality mode is superior to any other option and is more performant.
I really would love you to push these cards in the ultimate test .. VR,. as in VRChat. you want some pixel burning numbers, that's the one you need to use. render 2, 4k images at the same time with an HP reverb G2 to get real numbers
Can you add star citizen for your testing? Not bc it’s the best game but bc it’s gpu utilization and other hardware utilization is crazy high. I’d love to know how these new cards perform with such a demanding title
Mate, I took week ago my new one 3090 almost 35% cheaper than 4070 Ti. There is no point of buying 4070 Ti in current price. Guys even if you do have the option to buy a used 3090, it will still be a more profitable purchase when you look at around $600 versus $800.
You still need to search around a little bit with a used 3090 and probably haggle with the seller. This plus you are buying a potential mining card with a low chance to claim any warranty and finally the 3090 having issues with putting the vram on the back of the card. All of this together kinda makes the 4070ti a lot more appealing than the 3090
@@sentryion3106 Nope. I said I bought new one in this price, cuz I was lucky, but you didn't read. And in that price other auctions with used models are with warranty up to even 1.5 years without any risk. Just you need to know where to buy. PS: The 3090 has normal 2x8 pin power plugs, not like that dangerous new connector in the 4070 Ti. It's not allowed even to little bend it, and the whole card is even more huge than the previous generation. Ridiculous.
in our region we can get 2nd hand 3080 ti for around 565USD, but even then I would say it's debatable whether you would get it over a brand new 4070 ti / 7900 xt.
3090's are ~$900 CAD here in Canada now. The cheapest 4070ti is ~$1150 (tax included), and it outperforms (outbenches) the 3090ti by about 15-20% at 50% power usage (maxed at 314w, avg around 250w). These are the results I got benching my Zotac 4070ti vs my Asus Strix 3090ti Hybrid, which I paid $1600 new for back when I got it. When it's all said and done, the 4070ti is priced just fine Buy the cheapest model & flash the Strix vbios onto it, simple
I see the Zotac 4070ti start at $1180 here in Canada and that's without tax. There's no such thing as a tax included price for Canada as a whole since it varies widely by province. Plus Zotac is the cheapest for a reason, they are widely known to cheap out on PCB components
U know a 3080 and 3090 hardly had any performance differences 5% ish so last gen people bought 4070ti -(%5-10) performance for 700 and that too two years ago so this argument of urs is so deeply flawed and stupid I don't have words to describe it and also being on 5nm node gives power effecincy as a default u don't have to pay extra for that, which stupid people like u have started quoting as a kind of plus point. Enjoy ur $900 two year old $700 product. Congratulations for getting fooled 🤡 by nvidia into thinking a 3090 was as good as a 4090 last gen
Modern Warfare (1&2) highly favors gpu cache (like the new bigger L2 on the nvidia 4000 and the big AMD cache) It even favors cpu cache too (that's why ryzen 5000 (non X3D) often can have really high fps (but also big drops when its full) on those two games
12 GBs of VRAM is not enough for 4k. If you plan to run 4k on either of these cards, then to save yourself headache and performance in the future as we get more and more VRAM usage go with the 3090. Frame generation if you're into that kind of thing would be the only reason I'd choose a 4070 Ti. Hogwarts Legacy will tap out that 4070 on VRAM, CoD was pulling 10 gigs at 4k. I would never spend that much money on a card that is almost hitting it's hard VRAM limit the day I bought it by a game that's a year old.
@Mor MacFey That's a fair point, but because it performs well at 4k I could absolutely see people buying it for that. Especially with DLSS and frame generation.
@@ImaITman I'm using a 3070 at 3840x2160p and it works fine. Don't need to run max settings on everything besides the difference between ultra and like 2 tiers below that is hardly noticeable anyway. This idea that you need to have to have the absolute best GPU so you can run everything at max settings is silly. I can get a 60+FPS experience at 2160p in every game I play with just a 3070. The 4070Ti is fine.
cool, they peforme overall on par, once is slightly more forward looking, and the other you have to buy used. Yeah, if the new is just as good, why buy used? derp derp
Buying used isn’t a big deal as long as you aren’t an idiot. I’ve had mine since before the 4070ti was out anyway so it didn’t matter in my case. Plus it felt good to put money in a persons pocket before the holidays rather than hand nvidia some cash.
It depends on what you're playing. I tried it on MSFS and DLSS 3 is definitely worth it (in that case). I wouldn’t use it on first person shooters, though.
3090 owner here that has had like 7 of them, for the vast majority of users just get the 4070ti. Now the scenario where the 3090 would be better would be Minecraft with texture packs and complex shaders. at 4k i've seen 41gb system ram usage and 21gb VRAM usage.
Yeah minecraft and emulators with custom texture packs are where you want the higher VRAM and higher system RAM (need 64GB System RAM at least for stuff like that).
Sell your GPU on Jawa!
bit.ly/jawagpu3
9% fee
nice man i was waiting for your 4070 ti vs 3090 review :=)
@@nanonxpc9677 Compared to eBay? How much that will be?
Could you do a memory bus comparison? I see so many people suggesting that 192 bit bus is what is limiting the 4070ti. This would be nice to debunk
@@Chris-vl7pd derbauer has already done that
The 4070ti is pretty much the same as the 3090 performance wise, but massively more efficient, and it does all the new Nvidia stuff like 'DLSS' 3. I really don't get why you'd buy a used 3090, unless you need the 24GB of VRAM.
for 4k you need more than 12 gb vram for sure
yeah I know exactly what I was thinking. it draws 100 watts less on average for the same or better performance.
@gooro absolutely false, especially if you don't mind playing at high textures instead of ultra
12gb is good enough for gaming, 24gb is too much for gaming.
What does hurt the 4k gaming perf is the 192 bit bus on the 4070ti, but IMO it's still fine for 4k gaming if you're OK with 60fps instead of 120fps.
DLSS Quality got so good, that consumers and even reviewers consider them Native res now.
So when the card struggles to play 4k at DLSS QUALITY, that's actually worse, because that means the card is struggling at 1440p natively. Companies are banking on you changing your mind about fake frames in the future.
Interesting…according to Nvidia, the 4070ti can manage 3 times the performance of the 3090ti
I went with the 3090 since the extra VRAM makes a big difference for Blender and Davinci Resolve, but purely for gaming yeah 4070 Ti makes the most sense
I prefer it for gaming too: 24 Gb is huge for vr and future.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI???
@@Samdevay 40 series
@@Samdevay whats your budget?
@@Prod.M00N 2300 USD
HI, great video as always! I have been testing the 4070 Ti as well, and in some games like Plague Tale Requiem, with 4K, Ultra, and Ray Tracing shadows on, I noticed that I get very close to the 12gb of VRAM, and the 192 bit bus seems to cause some stutters too - did you notice anything like that? If I remove ray tracing, and turn on DLSS, it is smooth again. This is only at 4K as well
What you see is allocated, does not mean it is used. Only games that sometimes can need more VRAM are flight sims in VR with high end sets (and there even 4090 is not enough).
Allocation =/= use. My 4090 rarely even allocates 12 at 4k max Rt despite being designed to use as much as possible and even if it does it never USES more than 10. On a 4070 ti the use would be even lower, similar to my 3080 USING around 5-7 even in the most demanding Vr games like Alyx at 1.7x res of the quest 2 which is almost as demanding as 8k.
Damn. For someone who notices those small stutters. That'd make the game unplayable for me.
In one of his previous videos Daniel noted that using Ray Tracing actually increases the load on the CPU. I'm just speculating of course, but maybe you're starting to become CPU bottlenecked with all of those settings including RT maxed out, hence the small stutters?
monitor hz and frames? stuttering and tearing can be caused by the monitor or gpu if the frame are over the "limit", you can solve stuttering with a sync tech while tearing just limiting the max fps to the monitor hz -0,1
I chose an rtx 3090 over 4070 ti for my build because I needed a workstation card for my "workstation&gaming pc" - with blender and unreal engine stuff to do, that 24 gb of vram is a must
but but its slower than the 4070ti. Honestly I applaud you for looking at a GPU objectively. :)
I do a lot of various stuff and for me the av1 encoding, and the two nvenc all hardware based is too juicy. I also use it for AI stuff and it just has some stuff no card before it has to help with this stuff. If the 4080 would drop to 800, 4070ti to 600 the 4080 would be mine. As it stands ALL of them are far too expensive and I am a 1060 guy trying to upgrade. Not happening until Nvidia pulls their head out of their ass and has realistic pricing again.
@@generalawareness101 Just look for an used A4000 16 GB for ~$500.
The pascal generation is especially terrible for AI/ML
If you are a flight simmer and use VR headset. I'd either keep or buy the 3090. I recently returned its bigger brother 4080 and kept my 3090 due to both MSFS and DCS were often out of VRAM in game. When in game with the 3090, VRAM mostly hovers around 18-19gb utilized. I am waiting for the 4080 ti which have more VRAM in it than the 4080 (16gb).
With such low sales volume I doubt they'll make a 4080 ti since no one is buying the 4080.
Third party airports need at least 16GB VRAM. I pushed up to 20GB at a third party add on airport (WSSS Changi)
I know this is an older video, but in the current market, a used 3080 Ti is the best value card at high-end prices, at least for 4k gaming. I don't know what it costs in USA in the second-hand market, but here in Finland it's 600€. A 4070 Ti new is 900€. As the 3080 Ti is within 2-4% of the 3090 gaming performance, there is no reason to buy a used 3090 for gaming, as it's much more expensive.
I got a used 3090 with a 3-month guarantee for 72% of the price of the new 4070 Ti. I plan to use it for a few years and I think the VRAM requirements might increase a lot when it finally next-gen games will be released.
im planning to do the same.
Where u buy it?
Tambei peguei uma 3090 da Galax e é simplesmente monstra!!!
@rildooliveira2573 exactly bro I totally agree
I got a 3090 for £680 with 24 month warranty, whereas the 4070ti would have cost about £800
Very difficult too choose, since I'm pretty sure that the 12 GB will become a problem.
no lmao
Even considering a 3090 over a 4070ti is a joke
@@jackflackatari Considering a 3090 or a 4070ti is a joke. Unless you can get one cheap on the second hand market.
@@nossy232323
There is no cheap in latest technology PC.
Buy a console if you want cheap.
@@jackflackatari I don't need to. I have a 7950X3d + RTX 4090.
3090 easy
+ 384 bit memory bus
+ 24 GB ram more then enough any future games as games and 4k/RT get more demanding.
4070ti
- cut down 192 memory bus.
- 12 GB isn’t going be enough Vram. Consider BOTH current gen consoles are 16 GB.
Dev are going be targeting 16 GB Vram that as standard for 2023/24+ and beyond.
With UE 5.1 becoming standard. More games for 4k/RT will require more Vram. Not less.
True GPUs prices are still insane. And RTX 4xxx and Amd RDNA3 are still way over priced. Both are waste of time Imo. Better buy used RTX 3xxx or amd 6xxxx imo.
The 4070 TI has slightly better peformance at 30% lower power draw. Pretty good for the new upper mid tier card versus the high end from the previous gen.
Yea. Having it be less of a power draw with similar pricing makes it still the cheaper card over time.
half the vram and memory bandwith , bus.
Pretty bad since its soon vram bottleneckd
Bad for the price.
@@sorinpopa1442 So what .... What does wasted memory bring to the table other than wasting your money for something you aren't going to use anyway? And obviously the narrower memory bus isn't hurting the performance compared to the 3090 ..... The 4070 Ti might get slightly better performance at 4K with a 384 bit bus (your only other choice with 12 GB memory) but at 1440p it's not going to make much of a difference. Plus having the 4080 with 16 GB and a 256 bit bus it wouldn't make much sense to give a lower tier card like the 4070 a 384 bit bus
I also bought a 3090 for great prize, before this 4070ti was released and I'm pretty happy overall. Using a high end card with high vram
and having "high end" power consumption. You will be happy till first ivoice for energy. :)
@@user-glg20 stop exaggerating
Best choice . In 2023 , 12 GB VRAM is a comedy show
Sorry But unlike europe most people in the US don't pay an arm and a leg for power@@user-glg20
@@user-glg20 Nobody really cares about power consumption.
I just got a 4070ti last week and one thing I have to mention is this card is extremely quiet, cool and efficient, I can't say a bad thing about it but it's price.
What AIB model is it?
@Peter Smulders one of the cheapest ones, I got it for 700$ (Msi Ventus x3
@Garrus Vakarian 3080s msrp adjusted for inflation is 800$ so the 4070 ti is providing a pretty average Gen on Gen uplift of 30%. At the same price point but one thing people keep missing is that if you have a 3060ti/above you don’t NEED to upgrade. Of course this card will look like bad value from the perspective of someone who wants to upgrade within a single Gen.
@Garrus Vakarian hardware unboxed had it at a 28% uplift at 1440p and no the average isn’t 50-60%, that’s only the last couple gens which skews your perception. Most people in the com would agree 30% is average across all SKUs Gen on Gen.
@Garrus Vakarian Yh I’m talking about 1440p which is the 4070 tis target res
Also pay attention to the temps -- 4070ti is 3-8 degrees cooler too. Plus having a warrantee would push me to that if I were looking in that price or performance range
@Jonas Jonaitis much more performance for much higher prices*
You shouldn’t really be comparing temps, as that is down to the cooler on the gpu, not the gpu itself.
@@notbrokebrolt6281 also power draw + power efficiency, which was more my point
Great video and information! I do some gaming on my PC, mainly editing. But on the rare occasions I do renders on it. My current issue with my 2070 super keeps running out of memory to render using Float32. So as much as I'd want a new GPU (the 4070ti) you answered my question at the end there. I think I'm going to go with the 3090 just for all that VRAM. That way i have the power for gaming, but the memory for rendering when I need it!
I am in the same boat as you, which one have you opted for?
Holy cow. I just noticed this video is only 7 minutes old.
Dear Daniel, very much like your channel and your great approach on analyzing and comparing GPUs. Since I am 100 % flight simmer, I would really appreciate if you could include Microsoft Flight Simulator into your standard benchmark list. I know, that there are some challenges because there is no standard in-game-benchmark included, but may be you could use certain landing challenges or discovery flights as a standard testing scenario. The community of flight simmers is continuously growing and the GPU - loading scenario applied by MSFS 2020 is quite unique and demanding, which makes it really interesting for your typical in-depth-comparisons.
🙋♀️ I second the motion. Need to see flight simulator included in the standard benchmark package.
@@Isoquant Yes! MFS is a great game, I too would love to see it in the benchmarks.
Agree. MSFS is such a unique gaming demand that it needs to be examined, more so than some other random console-PC title or whether a 1080 shooter gets 250 or 260 fps.
@@LukewarmEnthusiast yes sure, you are right. I will keep on flying on my 3090 and will wait until any of good options with DLSS 3 will be available and also affordable. May be a kind of 4080 Ti would be a good choice for 1000 dollar in 1. 5 years or so
I have a 4070ti and use flight simulator. It's night and day. You can use the DLSS Frame Generation without turning on DLSS. You can just use TAA. Games runs and looks amazing
Huge difference in power draw between the two cards. As a direct comparison the 4070ti works out better due to the hugely reduced power draw which will save you a lot of money in the long run.
Assuming the 4070ti uses 75Watt less then the 3090, playing 8 hours everyday -> 219kWh/year. Price for currently 1 kWh: 40cents (here in Luxembourg its 25 Cents, but the avarage of Europe is higher) saves you 88 Euros per year. Considering that most people do not play 8 hours a day, but most convenient might be half the hours will divide the price also by 2. Not relevant imho. But marketing got you.
@@erLexo Most people keep their cards for multiple years and use their PC for more than just games. It's drawing closer to 100W so round it up to 50 a year. Thats $200 in 4 years with the added bonus of DLSS 3.0. Still wouldn't buy either card at current prices though.
The only time this would matter is if you're dirt poor or your PC is hooked up to a battery.
lol who cares about power draw
@@hircine92h People who live in tents and igloos... Duh...
i think it all goes down on at what price you can get the cards in your region. For me new 3090 was 700$ (VAT included) vs 4070 Ti (850$) (same model ) so 150$ went into other PC parts.
I would guess.. the 3090 use significantly more power. which also mean noise and potential shorter longevity
@@hotdog9262 depends on which model you buy
Exactly. In nz a new 4070 ti is around $1600 nzd. I bought a used 3090 for 900. Plus i do professional work so 24gb vram is great.
@@Unmighty1 nice choice same here
I was looking at a used 3090 and 4070Ti and I went with the 4070Ti. My reason was I play at 1440p and the 4070Ti is slightly better at that resolution for the same price, lower power draw, I got a warranty by buying new, and the 4070Ti has frame generation which is a game changer in the game I play the most. It's a no brainer to go 4070Ti for me. I also sold my old GPU on Jawa ;)
Yeah these are the reasons why. Warranty is 100% great if you aren't reselling. You could maybe justify the 3090 if you did any kind of work with the 24GB VRAM. Also the size, some of the 4000 series gpus are HUGE. You should try r/hardwareswap, Jawa's 9% seller fees suck now :(
Same I went for 4070Ti. I get lower temperature, less watts, and frame generation than 3090. Also on newer architecture.
It's not slightly better, it's significantly better.
I would avoid paying much attention to youtube videos like this. 4070ti is honestly on par with 3090ti.
thanks for ruining the market and supporting nvidia :) your next upgrade to xx70 class card will cost you 1200 dollars and that will be thanks to the customers like you, good job on klling the market bob
I you may regret it when you see the last of us drain 13gb of vram at 1440p
DLSS 3.0 implementation in plague tale requiem is amazing, couldn't tell the difference visually while I doubled the framerate and cut the power usage in almost half
I'm using it in Witcher 3 with ray tracing on a 4080 and it looks amazing and over 100fps at 1440p.. again, thats with ultra settings, max ray tracing and hair effects
Yep, just played through it myself on the 4070 Ti at 4K with DLSS Balanced and DLSS 3, never dropped below 100 fps, many times being over 120 even (all this while drawing 200w on average), incredible experience. I hope it spreads as quickly as DLSS did, I want it in every single player game.
Hopefully amd comes out with FSR 3 and frame generation soon. I am banking on it. Will equal the "feature" field a lot.
"Despite just launching FidelityFX Super Resolution (FSR) 2.0 in June, AMD just announced FSR 3.0 at its RDNA 3 launch event - along with a new piece of tech AMD is calling Fluid Motion Frames. We don’t have a ton of details yet, but FSR 3.0 looks to go toe-to-toe with Nvidia’s Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS) by generating unique frames all on its own.
According to AMD, FSR 3.0 will provide up to twice the frame rate as FSR 2.0, which seems to come exclusively from the Fluid Motion Frames technology. AMD hasn’t shared any details on how this tech works, but the company confirmed that it is using frame generation similar to Nvidia’s recently released DLSS 3."
www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-fsr-3-announcement-frame-generation/
DLSS 3 is off to a good start but it still needs some work. It’s probably a couple updates away from being truly great. It’s easy to feel the added input lag and it’s easy to spot visual hiccups caused by frame generation
@@FrostyBud777 lets hope we get the lower power draw that DLSS 3 has as well.
Is no one going to mention the insane power draw of the 3090 over the 4070 ti? It's quite a significant improvement in power efficiency.
Im worried about the 24gb vs 12gb vram issue. I just got a 3090, it heats up my room when gaming, but I dont have to worry about running out of vram any time soon.
@@VFXShawn Run an undervolt. My 3090 was heating up my room too lol, now it doesn't get above 75c under load for very demanding games. Less demanding maintains in the 60cs.
@@Colt45nTwoZigZagz Thanks, I was looking at replacing the thermal paste and pads but the entire process scares me to no end, I once opened up my Oculus controllers to replace the joysticks and destroyed them, I have zero confidence in my ability to pull off such a risky fix. I have been undervolting but idle temps are still 60 :(
I both an new 3090 asus tuf oc for 800$ upgrading from aorus 1080ti.
and I'm extremely satisfied .
I ended up going with the 3090. That 24GB VRAM is a HUGE under sight for work focused builds + future proofing. I figured the 3090 gives me a better overall PC build. I just got one for $778 USD including taxes & shipping. That's a no brainer to me.
I appreciate you making this video, it helped me solidify my choice.
I had similar situation ppl dumping their crypto GPU's bought a used RTX 3090 bought it for $650 which is a steal in my book.
I'm going to get a 3090 this week for about $500 I think it's a steal compared to the 4070ti at $800, everyone's main complaint about the 4070ti is the lack of VRAM saying 12GB is pathetic, but then people say the 3090 is overkill on the VRAM I don't get it (tbf 16GB is probably enough but surely more is better than less)
Even though my budget is around mid range, I am thinking of spending a bit more just for the VRAM and bigger memory bus. The 4070ti is quick but not strong, i've had 12gb in my 3060 for years now and i constantly see it beeing too little.
I recently picked up a 4070ti and for it's price it was the best value choice, in terms of new prices it's much cheaper than a 3080ti or 3090 whilst having similar performance and cheaper to run, it was only a bit more than a 3080 and the 4080 is about 50% more money for around 25% performance. I've had an absolutely great time with this GPU
I agree! I don't regret my purchase, the 4070ti has been treating me well at 1440p! I love the power efficiency and the card stays cool and quiet
Still loving it after a couple months? I have a 7700x/4070ti build in the works and I'm super excited. I'm coming from a 8700/gtx1080 build and I primarily use it for sim racing in VR. I can't wait to crank the settings.
@@angryginger791 yeah thats a great combo! The 4070ti is a beast at 1440p but temps stay cool and power draw is efficient. Real big jump in performance from your last build. Enjoy!
yep just got mine for 700$ open box and am about to sell my 3070 strix to a co-worker for 350$ that wants to upgrade from a 2060. SO now its 350$ out of pocket...and i got my 3070 from flipping a 2080ti and its $$$ to buy multiple 5700xts which i then flipped...I kind of laugh at my friend that spent 1600$ out of pocket for a 3080 q2 2021 NGL. Meanwhile i used a 2080ti strix...to fund my 3070strix purchase and my 5900x+x570 tomahawk for effectively FREE. The 2ghz OC 2080ti or pushing 5700xt's to 2ghz....was hot and loud with vram hot spots among them....hell even the ampere FE cards had VRAM heat problems. Still to have something simliar to my 2080ti strix at near half the cost/price....and pair it with the TEMPS/NOISE of operation the 3070 strix brings to the table and it was a HUGE QOL increase on top of having a more modern CPU/RAm/CHIPSET to push better GPU to their potential.
I think you are right about the cache situation, the 4070 Ti has 8 times the L2 cache compared to the 3090 (48 MBs vs 6 MBs) This is a huge jump that is easily explained by Nvidia switching from the half EUV Samsung "8nm" node to the fully EUV TSMC "4N" node. The manufacturing differences are more closer to a two generation jump than one, and TSMC's process can fit a lot more cache on the die than any other. But the 4N node is about 50% more expensive per wafer that 6N node that AMD is using for the RX 7000 series, and AMD is also using a chiplet design, which means more chips per wafer. The node alone explains why the 4000 series is so expensive, and calls into question why the AMD cards are so close in price to the 4000 series if their manufacturing cost is at least 50% lower, if not more. It baffles me that no one is calling out AMD for their unsatisfyingly high prices, while everyone is doing so with Nvidia.
AMD was already using a larger L2 cache with their last generation so their 256 bit bus could compete with the 384 bit bus Nvidia was using at the high end and in most games it does seem to work .... I don't really care about the bus size or "theoretical" throughput, I care about how it performs in games ..... One of the first things you learn as an Electronics Engineer is theory and reality are often two wildly different things
@@longjohn526 Indeed, RDNA 2 was really impressive when it came out. The TSMC 7nm process gave it a nice edge against the "8nm" Samsung node that Ampere was made on, and that "infinity cache" really did bridge the gap with the memory bandwidth. It's basically the same idea behind the X3D CPUs, bringing in more cache so that the memory bandwidth is less of an issue.
ah yes the cache
i believe they imitate amds move on 6x50 series (its why they all beat nv offerings)
@@cpt.tombstone amd rdna 2 have infinity cache?
That Jawa site looks awesome. I wish people in Canada could buy from it. All we mostly have is overpriced thieves on Kijiji. $400 for a 6yr old gtx 1080 and the seller plays absolutely dumb when you ask if the card was mined with..
"What is gpu mining? My card is absolutely Mint! ..We can meet at a gas station. $400 firm." 🤔
So, over two years later my RXT 3090 Founders Edition still rocks! I love it!
sell it on 900$ and buy an rtx 4070 ti
Brand new + same perf
@@nanezferrer3565 I prefer 24Gb and big bus for vr and less planned obsolescence.
It’s easy
3090 is better on 4K
4070Ti is better on 2K
I’d buy RTX 3090 for 4K Gaming
i got a used 3090 for 200$ less than a 4070ti for about the same performance (ignoring dlss 3 of course) and more vram, which I needed for VR. so im pretty happy overall.
You got a 3090 for 600$?
@@TwistRemiss yeah
I'm only scared by used/repaired/mining market with no warranty.
@@gimmy2294 Used card still has warranty except u remove or do something with card.
@@KimKim-xp4fg I have different infos about warranty on second market.
You guys call out Nvidia and AMD for their fake frames, but you also consider DLSS Quality as native res. Where is that same energy?
The 4070 ti is running cyberpunk smoothly at *1080p Upscaled* ( 1440p ), with all the settings at high. I bet if Nvidia fixes their latency, you will start viewing dlss2 and dlss3 in "like terms" manner. That's how everyone sees Dlss quality now. The 4070 ti is a modern Triple-A *1080p* GPU.
If you start calling them for what they are, you will dictate what value these GPU ought to have, and will pressure companies into making better value GPU's again.
Ive been researching this all day today and I came to the same conclusion you have.
My buddy is selling his Gigabyte 3090 ti for $700 so I decided to compare it to similar priced products and the 4070ti is what I decided to go with.
The 3090Ti is actually measurably better than the 3090, it performs about 10% better than the 3090 which would make it match or beat the 4070Ti in most/all of these benchmarks. It would put itself over the top, so unless you really wanted a card that draws a smaller amount of power (the 3090Ti draws even more than 3090, the TDP is 450w - yikes!) I would have gotten the 3090Ti especially considering buying from a buddy is $700 flat and the 4070Ti is $800 + tax.
@@josephusedtobefredbarnes yeah hard agree
There are multiple RTX 3080 second hand, some with 1 year of warranty, for €600. Would you buy those at this point in time? I can wait for the 4070 but I fear it will cost way more.
Just to edit my post 8 months later. I have come across two new games that require more then 12gb of Vram just to turn on the epic setting in the options for certain graphics settings. I honestly never thought we would get to the point where we would need more then 12gb of vram for a 3440 x 1440 resolution, but we have come to that point. Back when I purchased my cards we were just getting out of the bitcoin mining nightmare, where you couldn't buy any cards anywhere. I'm currently waiting for a pcie 5 generation gpu for my current system. I'm hoping that the 50 series cards are pcie 5 and the 5090 should have 24gb of vram. If I were to have to purchase a gpu right now for some reason, I wouldn't get anything with less then 16gb of vram.
I have 3 pcs all with the exact same components. Literally from the power supplies to extra fans in the cases. The only differences are the graphics cards.
I have a EVGA rtx3080ti, a RTX3090 founders edition, and a RTX4070ti.
The RTX4070TI is definitely what I would recommend buying if you had a choice.
When playing games, all 3 systems play all the games I like at max graphics with no issues.
The reason I say buy a RTX4070ti is it uses less then half the power that the rtx3090fe uses.
At idle, my RTX3090FE uses around 401watts!!!!
So your getting basically the same performance, for less power, less heat, less money, and you would be getting a new card vs. A used card.
The RTX3090fe does have double the VRAM, but even at 4k I haven't found any games that have used anywhere close to using the 24gb of VRAM is has.
Although I've heard the last of us release is so poorly programmed it will use whatever your card will let it. Lol 😅 but I haven't had the chance to test it.
Check your computer for a cryptominer that's just not normal bro. Longevity Wise, the 3090 makes more sense.
I'm so glad you made such in depth comparison,
For me it's a very similar performance, and I've choose the 3090 because of the VRAM that is important for AI. Found a used one for half the price of a new 4070ti.
Buy used ones especially now that price is going to spike up a lot
Very power hungry in comparison though, cooling and noise also play a factor for me.
Daniel thanks for the video. I always like your honest comparisons. Please keep up the great work you do. Would you consider testing MSFS 2020 as one of your gaming tests for us Flightsimmers?
Came here to say the same thing. Just found the channel and would love to see his thoughts/comparisons in MSFS with 30 vs 40 series.
I was considering the 4080 until I found a 3090 for 600 locally. Since I'm cheap I bought the 3090 and plan on using that until I can find a used 4000 series card for a decent price.
that's a great deal
@@doriangray2347 guess it pays to monitor Facebook marketplace. I have noticed things that used to sell immediately are taking time to sell now. Mostly game consoles and video cards are the main ones.
@@avengence ah! that is a good idea. it looks really ghetto, but i guess it worked.
Finding 3090 at $800 or less, I'll take it any day of the week over the 4070 Ti. That 12GB of VRAM is gonna bottleneck an otherwise decent card. It should've at least has 16GB and I can't believe people would take such a tasteless deal. I'd rather look at AMD's offering from last gen if I just purely went into gaming
just like apes thinking 3070 with its joke 8GB Vram a good card or 3080 with 10GB is good enough. many ppl fell for the garbage 3070 and now that card is struggling because lack of Vram.
Wow, just got a 3090 for 550. Times are changing.
With the possibility of using the 40 series silicon and its Frame Generation, without a doubt a superior option.
The 3090 is more expensive now because there aren't many of them left - I bought a 3090 back when the 4090/80 were released at a decent price since I figured it would suit my needs better (mixed gaming and compute stuff)
in europe (poland) 3090 is sometimes $300 cheaper so then its no brainer
wrong choise :((
@@kimotv8644 Yeah, but in Europe electricity is a lot more expensive so you're paying more for it in the long run.
Gonna go with the 4070ti on this one. Supports dlss3, lower power usage, lower heat, slightly better performance, and you can pick any model and brand you want cause they’re in stock. The only singular reason anyone should get a budget 3090 is if they actually need the 24GB of VRAM which is a very small number of people.
"a budget 3090" hahaha, no such thing
lol, you want hyper car performance in an economy car
@@augustoalvarez6766 lmao yeah what i meant was if you find one the same price as a 4070ti as the premise in this video
I can't wait for next gen 5070ti price at $999 and 6070ti at $1299. This is begining how pc gaming market will slowly die. Fuk Nvidia!
Still overpriced shit, with gimped memory bus.
There is big difference that should be used when comparing these 2 cards and that is amount of memory. For some uses its more important to have 24 Gigs of mem then 12 gigs.
in our country you can find a zotac rtx 3090 for 500 dollars USED and a used rtx 4070 ti for 750 dollars
For donkeys who can't understand, they keep 30 series price high to make 40 series reasonably priced
As games get more demanding the 12GB VRAM on the 4070 Ti will become a bottleneck at 4K resolution. For example in the benchmark of Horizon Zero Dawn at 4K the RTX 3090 used more than 12GB VRAM.
Allocation is not the same as actual usage
Also I think 4070ti is intended by Nvidia to be a 1440p card (granted price suggests otherwise)
Its struggling even with 1440p soon
@@lifemocker85 12gb is more than enough for 1440p… don’t forget you can’t use other gpus vram usage as a 1:1 comparison. My 3080 never USED more than 6gb in the most demanding Rt games at 1440p but a 6800xt would allocate more than 11 in the same game as modern gpus will allocate/use as much as they can
@@Drip7914 no its not. some games NOW use around 10gb so its bottleneckd sooner than its really otherwise necessary to new it. thats why they gimped 70 serie gpus that you end up losing money
If you want vram and use your computer for anything productivity related the 3090 seems to be a better choice. Fake frames are cool and all but ai and rendering really appreciates the wider memory bus and more vram.
Wow, Daniel, you LISTEN! If I wasn't a subscriber... now I would be. You material were great already, but spending your precious time on creating stuff that responds to the community is a level above that. Thank you!
4070 ti at what price? 799$? No thanks. And i hope it will rot on shelves.
I'd take the 4070Ti. DLSS 3, lower temps, longer Warranty, lower TDP (yay, wouldn't have to upgrade my power supply). I'm on a 3070 Founders Edition and I play most games at 1440p and a few at 4k on a 48in OLED. Just tune my graphics, not in the market. $800, eh, maybe a used 4070Ti would tempt me sub $750. 😅
gaming take the 4070ti, heavy workload then go for the 3090.
Also better driver support cus ngreedia neglectd older cards
@@arthurmorgan6353 Oh, that's a good point on drivers.
12 gb is a gimmick
man you have a 3070, you don t really need a 4070ti.
What should I say with my 1060 and 750ti?
I m looking for a 60 with good performance and price but I think it will never come
I went with a 4070ti but I was replacing a RX 5700Xt so it was a huge performance gain for me.
I'm upgrading from an RX570 4gb to the asus tuf 4070 ti OC, I'm about to be walking into a whole new world hahaha
thinking about doing the same switch
nvm the fps yields the noise of operation and temps is NIGHT and day NGL....5700xt though competitive at the time/launch....had some of the most terrible END USER experiences ive seen for a would be "flagship" sku/product. The reference 5700XT is like a mandatory UV or else 90c+ vrm and vram. They had mounting issues with the 5700xt strix...and even the 5700xt tuf needed a 2.0 version as well XD.
I do wonder how the performance difference would be with the 3090 if it was undervolted which can cut up to 100W from it's peak load, and allow it to run closer to the 2000mhz clock vs what I saw was all below 1900Mhz for it's core. The same can probably be done on the 4070Ti, but considering the 3090 is a founders with no OC out of the box, there is a chunk of performance and power savings left on the table there since when they came out they were overvolting the heck out of them out of the box.
I saw a video where a guy undervolted a 3090. It reduced power by 90w, but only lost 1 or 2 frames per second
As an average but avid gamer, this is simply a practical issue. On release, a prebuilt computer with a 3090 was at very best $3500. On release, a prebuilt computer with a 4070 Ti is at best $2500. It's simply a better value for gaming and why buy used when you can buy new and get equal to better gaming performance new.
Personally I'd still go with a 3090 if I could get it used. I mod games and you need quite a bit of vram if you want to use texture mods or enb/reshade.
@@liftedcj7on44s Why are you such a ass 🤣 The man was asking a simple question. Also unless you're modding with 8k textures there's no need for more than 12 gb right now lol
@@liftedcj7on44s He just asked a question lol. Why you so mad 😭
@@liftedcj7on44s I mod games as well. Been doing for it 12 years. VRAM is entirely dependent on use case and optimization for said cards. For example, a 24gb card can actual run worse on a 12gb card based on the game. It’s also dependent on future proof and what other games you play. If you’re only planning on using your card for a modded out skyrim, get a 3090. If you’re doing more than that, a 4070ti makes more sense because of future use cases.
@@kleneichler8882 Nothing that I am not aware of.
@@liftedcj7on44s in terms of what? Future cases? You realize that a 4070ti has software integration that double fps. Thats the future case if you want that.
Also, more vram doesnt necessarily mean better performance despite textures. I’ve done testing using my titan rtx and a 4080. Ran it with highly modded skyrim. The titan rtx had lower fps than a 4080 despite vram being maxed out with a 4080. More vram =/= in better performance in all situations.
Hey there.. I replaced my 3090 with a 4070 TI. The biggest reason was the lower power draw, the next reason was to leverage the newer features. At $799 it's actually a good value in today's GPU market.
Cheers
Rick
Biggest mistake if you want to play modern games.
i wouldve chosen 7900XT for almost same price... coz i dont care about the 100w more energy usage. Also 8gb more vram
@@lethanhtung4972 not really? if he's at 1440p he's fine
lmao. $800 for a 70 series card that comes with only 12GB Vram.
still ppl calling it "good" GPU market. Ngreedia has already infiltrated the minds of consumers.
Play all the modern games great at 1440p for me. @@lethanhtung4972
I'm thinking about these cards for a new sim racing pc. I'll be running triple 32" 1440p 165hz monitors. Is the extra vram more important on the cards for the triple screens, or is there something else to look out for on a gpu that will mainly only see racing games? Not sure which direction to go for this, any recommendations? I plan on pairing with a 7800x3d. Thanks!
I decided to buy a second hand 3090 RTX for gaming. I think VRAM will become more important than DLSS3.0
If you undervolt the 3090 than it’s an amazing card that could perform in 4K better than the 4070TI in future games. Also there will be FSR 3 in future …
I need the 24GB of VRAM because I'm sick and tired of having to upgrade due to VRAM limits. I've had a 4GB 580, a 6GB 980Ti, and now an 8GB 3070 over the past 6 years. I've only had the 3070 for 1.5 years and it's already not enough. The consoles have 16GB and Nvidia is still putting 8-12GB in overpriced cards. Done with it. I'll take the used 24GB 3090. (I'd go team red, but I do dabble in VR, raytracing, and some productivity things that they're just not supporting that well right now)
@@Actiatam because ur kinda noob. u don't know what to buy. And RTX 3070 was awful trash garbage GPU.
If instead u bought an RX 6700XT (which has 12GB Vram), you'd still be using it right now, just like myself. Way better than junk RTX 3070.
I went for the 3090 for 4k gaming and VR gaming. No issues at all.
I would go for the 3090 at 800-900$ becuase of the VRAM over the 4070ti
Well, I have a 3090 TI. I'm pretty sure the 4070 TI falls behind that, seeing as how it is pretty neck and neck with the 3090.
I still find it a bit daring to compare a retail product to a used one, but it looks like even that can't save Ampere at this point. Great video as always.
In this case I think it makes sense. You're comparing performance at a specific price point. All things being equal, I would definitely go with the new 4070Ti over a used 3090. But, if the 3090 could produce 10-15% better performance, it might be a more difficult choice. In this case, as far as I can see, the 4070 and 3090 are pretty much equivalent. 5% differences here or there are close to the margin of error.
The moment you install a new graphics card into your PC and load its drivers into windows, you now have a used graphics card. What actually matters is whether the card is still covered by its manufacturer warranty.
@@rangersmith4652 What actually matters is the remaining duration of the warranty and how hard the product has been stressed. 2 year old mining cards are not equal to your day old card, nor are they equal to 2 year old average gamer cards.
@@ForlebTF Somewhat true. But a used card that works the day you first install it is probably going to keep working until the end of its warranty and well beyond whether it has been lightly used for 30 days or mined on 24/7 for 30 months. A card in either category can fail within warranty, or can fail the day after its warranty expires. Same for a card that's only had one owner. But they usually don't.
@@rangersmith4652 sometimes warranties are not transferable to a secondary buyer.
Makes more sense to buy a new gen 4070Ti than a used 3090. I think that's the path I'd take.
why used? price for a new 3090 or 4070ti are same?
@robertkrlin7488 there is no new 3090
@@Synful_ a few weeks ago it was, in germany, and the 3090ti i think you can still get for the same price and also new, but i wouldtake the 4070ti instead
Just wanted to point out that in Horizon zero dawn the 3090 was using a good bit more than 12 gb of vram, not sure if that is limiting the 4070 ti and would explain the performance disadvantage. It is weird though as the 4070 ti was in the low 11 gb range. If that is the case we could see the 12 gb of vram be a limiting factor for future games in 4k.
In future games the graphics will get more demanding too so there is no reason to focus on 4k with these cards. 1440p + high refresh gaming is more recent and will last years with these cards. But 4070Ti is a better option cause its cheaper (if u dont buy used and maybe cryto mined cards which might get broken) and 4070ti is way more efficent compared to the 3090 and delivers a bit more fps in 1440p. 12 GB Vram will be also enough for years in this resolution, thats why I dont get it why people still want 256bit 16gb. If they would have made this, the price would be much higher but for the performance improvement this wouldnt be worth it. This card is energy efficent and will probably last forever undervolted in 1080p with a 360Hz 24' monitor and something like a 13600k or the upcoming X3D cpus.
@@AlienGurke Yeah I only brought this up because Mr Owen didn't point out this possible vram limitation in 4k. However, I still think people paying this much for a graphics card would want to use 4k even if it isn't what the card is "meant for."
anyway change textures from ultra to high is not a great loss and will solve vram problems
@@loryt690 For sure there is no reason to suffer just to have games at ultra. Most of the time the difference isn't too noticeable.
FORGET NVIDIA. 1200 for a 4080 for 4k games. what a joke. 800 bucks for a 4070ti with only 12 gb video memory? no thanks. rather have a 6950xt with 16gb and only 4% slower overall than 4070ti than support nvidias greed, PLUS CALLING 4070TI A 4080 12gb, WHAT A JOKE, forget you nvida. I AM DONE , evga left, so did I !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Found a rtx 3090 for $640 like new condition on jawa and recommended it to a friend who was looking to upgrade to a 4070. Mans got quite the deal.
You are the most honest gear comparison youtuber out there. Your analysis is always down to earth and about our real gamer experience. Thanks. Keep the good work!
Today the 4070ti is faster. I'm willing to bet you'll be upgrading from the 4070ti sooner than a 3090/ti due to growing VRAM usage in games over the next few years though. Mod heavy games are going to choke on that low VRAM as well.
no way 4070ti can outperform a 3090ti in heavily modded cyberpunk or skyrim
Great comparison video Daniel! I was in the same boat as all of the others who are considering going used 3090 over a 4070Ti. I too would've picked the 4070Ti but as an SFF enjoyer, it was too great of a hassle to find out which SKU would fit my ZX-1. I picked up a used TUF 3090 from ebay for $700 and I am very happy with it, knowing I also don't have to mess with any of the 12VHPWR shenanigans.
What shenanigans? Only a tiny fraction of people actually had issues, and they were only with the 4090's... That stuff was blown out of proportion by people that couldn't get one.
@@jkell411 I'd have to go out of my way to buy the cable if I didnt want to use Nvidia's adapter, which I will surely consider using in an SFF case. Availability is a nonissue for me as I live next to a Microcenter
$700 for a USED card? you've made that seller very happy that's for sure
@@smush5653 I sure did, and Im a happy customer myself
@@Hochiiiiii for that much, I'd be too. In my local market, a used 3090 is still 900 USD
great video as always!
I'm surprised that there are people who would buy a 3090 in 2023 for gaming unless they need the VRAM for work of course.
There are much cheaper used 3090 in many counteries than 4070Ti's retail
The 3090 is the better card for 4K - it will be more needed for future games.
So you have to decide between DLSS3 and 12GB more vram. I have choose. The 3090 and I am happy with it.
i feel like you're really underselling Frame Gen. In a single player game, where your base frame rate is over 60, Frame Gen can get you close to or over 100 fps of smoothness, while retaining the overall experience of the game. In Cyberpunk 2077, I basically can't tell the difference between Framegen 120fps and NON-framegen 120fps at a lower setting. If the true framerate is below 60, you definitely can feel it, but visually it's almost impossible to spot the framegen artifacts while you're playing.
This video kind of exemplifies my thoughts on this card. It's basically a cheaper 3090 that doesn't need a 1000 watt psu. I could actually drop this card into my PC right now with a 750w PSU and have a 3090 tier of performance with savings on my power bill.
That's not to say it's not overpriced, it really is. But I was already considering getting a RX 6950 xt at only $40 less and consumes like 100+ watts more power and would require a new PSU. The power draw of the 4070 ti is what makes it actually look good to me despite the high price. If the price goes down a little I will consider it even more.
Try aiming for a higher PSU so you don't happen to kill your newer gpu in the future, despite what it's suggested ratings might be. Safe than sorry my friend.
@@vince943 750w is overkill for a 4070Ti.
Between the two, which one is better for VR?
VR loves VRAM, so the 3090
RTX 3090 all the way.
4070 ti for sure. I play vr on my 4090 with max quest 2 res/settings and can confirm 12gb is more than enough
@@Drip7914 Interesting. The VRAM for sure, but wouldn't the 192 bit be a bottleneck issue? Also, I heard 12 gb is also going to be limiting in the future, when even Skyrim VR with mods can take up 18 gb of VRAM.
I am more interested in the watt power. ~350W (3090) vs ~250W (4070 Ti). Wow.
Did no one notice that 3090 appeared to be much more smooth in motion than the 4070ti ? 4070 Ti often had spikes and bad frames/cut frames for some reason. 3090 was always buttery smooth i wonder why that is
could be the frame generation of the 4070ti
GPU RAM is a big deal. Having enough is really crucial, but I have noticed that the 4070 ti seems to use less than the 3090 here. Could the card be fast enough that it keeps usage lower?
EDIT: at 1440p
4070 TI has higher memory cache which is probably what's leading to it needing to use a bit less overall.
60-100W less for the 4070Ti at 1000mhz higher GPU core clock. Very impressive and you have DLSS3.0
Most 3080 ti/3090 can be undervolted/oc to 1900mhz 0.9v with will have same performance/power as 4070 ti at 4k:)
@@ezioauditore1588 can you go lower like 1700/1800 for 200-300W?
@@airhogglider You can but you will sacrifice performance .On my old 3080 12gb stable was 1920 0.9v 320w maxpower
1735 0.818 220w and diffrence was 10% in fps.
@@ezioauditore1588 10% is a lot! Hmmm... Choices.
Pricing also depends on region, currently in Australia (If you can manage to find one) a 3090 is $2300+, 4070ti's start @ $1400.
There are heaps on the second hand market start from $1000.
@@tunghon2230 personally I’d rather buy new than 2nd hand. 3yr warranty , return service and also know the card hasn’t been abused crypto mining. Too many risks buying used.
I believe the 4070 Ti is dropping into a tie with the 3090 in 4K, when they are performing same at 4K. Meaning the 4070 Ti is hindered in the 4K resolution, possibly by the in my opinion very low performance memory bus. The 4070 Ti is simply performing alot worse due to this memory bandwith, I believe. What will come in a year or two when 1440P will be more demanding? NOT ok for a xx70 Ti-class card, and too expensive as well. The 4070 Ti should have been made with better memory bus. So the 3090 does not catch up to 4070 Ti at 4K, instead the 4070 Ti drops to 3090-performance. Just my take on it. What do you think? With best regards.
i think you are on right track ,,,,,,,, in a not so tecnical kind of way ......
It pays to have good friends and to be a good friend in return. This makes me feel even better about buying my bro’s seldom used 3090 for $650. I’d rather spend it with someone I know instead of paying Nvidia’s inflated prices.
for 650 is a huge deal
650 is a great deal my man
So I had a 1070 since it's launch in 2016 along with the birth of the modern VR movement. January of 2022, I finally had the funds to make the plunge and buy a 3070. As a 1440 gamer who doesn't play any competitive or PVP type games, I am golden with anything I play at 1440 on my humble 3070. I don't think I will need to upgrade anytime soon, not until at least the 5070 comes out at the end of the year and even then I will most likely wait until it is close to the middle of it's life cycle so I could get it at a discount.
Still rocking my 1070 and it works great
I got a used 3090 strix in great condition for 800€ in germany where 4070 ti's start at 900€ so I think I got a decent deal. especially since it's a strix and a 4070 ti tuf (let alone strix) goes for more like 1000€
Same thing I did in Poland. Used 3090's are 150€ cheaper. It's not decent, it's a no-brainer kind of deal. DLSS 3.0 and higher efficienty aren't worth that much.
same, i got a 3090 strix for a little les than 800 euros,
@@JonVon_you guys are lucky... I'm just about to buy one of them, but unfortunately the used 3090's in the Netherlands are only ~€50 less than a new 4070ti :( Makes it really difficult but I can't justify not buying a new item :(
@@xntumrfo9ivrnwf maybe you can buy the cheapest 4070 ti, there's very little performance difference between oc and non oc version, also for example between the msi and the strix there isn't even 2% performance difference also
Strix is just an overpriced fan. Lol. Tuff 4070ti is cool and quiet
The 4070 simply wins a LOT less pwr draw and performs better over all plus it's new.
The new GPU wins against the 2 years old card, congratulation.
4070 is vram gimped just like 3070
Don't forget about the used market, folks. I've just bought a used 3090 with an EK waterblock for 700€. It is still under warranty for 6 months. This is a rare deal but getting one for 800-900€ is totally realistic these days.
Thanks for another banger video Daniel. I was wondering if you could do a test with these higher end gpus on competitive games? Such as valorant, csgo, fortnite etc on competitive graphics settings like low. I understand these are cpu bound, but as higher refresh rate monitors become more common, I'm curious on the actual impact on a better gpu. Thanks!
I get 800 fps on low settings with i7-12700k with my rx 6800xt (non overclocked) at 1080p ( I have a 360hz monitor)
There's no way I'd ever buy a used GPU over a new one when the new one is performing slightly better overall, at the same price. The 3090 would have to be in really good condition with low usage AND be significantly cheaper than the 4070 ti before I'd ever consider buying a used GPU. Maybe if the 3090 was $400 I'd risk buying a used GPU. Great video, thank you for presenting your findings. Have a good one man.
I see your point but I bought one and it works great. Key is to make sure you can trust the seller.
@@austintow4074 How do I trust a seller that I don't t know? People's moral compasses are so fucked nowadays I don't know how they walk straight. Glad yours worked out for you.
Got a 3090 today "used" as in no box, but still had the plastic covering on it. $600. Plus i upgraded from my 3080 so i can resell it so maybe $200 out of pocket for the 3090 at the end of the day hah.But yeah maybe i lucked out. The power draw is cool on the 4070 though, plus DLSS 3. But the fps gain is minimal (atleast compared to a 3090).
There's no way I'd spend almost the same money on a card that can do DLSS 3 over a card that can't.
I've been building PC's since 1995 and have almost always bought used GPUs and have NEVER had one not work or fail. I realize mining is a wrench in that, and I would probably avoid 3090's and 3080/10GB's unless I knew the previous owner.
I'd say the 3090 is a bit more future proof with its 24gigs of vram comparing it to the 4070ti. However, the 4070ti takes the crown on power usage and clocks.
Having a 3090 Tuf and an rtx 4070ti ventus x3, I can tell you right now, the 4070ti is the card to get. Oh yeah, and dlss 3.5 is only available on 4000 series too. You gotta take into consideration that the cores are running near 150% of the speed of the 3090 when you look at the 4070ti.
Thanks, still sticking with my undervolted 3090
Maybe when they release a reasonably priced 4080 Ti
What a G. Thanks man
If you want to play at 1440p, get the 4070Ti.
Get the 3090 if you're playing at 4K as the 192-bit bus of the 4070Ti will gimp that card in the future. Plus the extra VRAM on the 3090 will make it last far longer.
DLSS 3 would like a word
BUT MUH DELESSSS
@@BBWahoo and some (not all) games don't even support DLSS, so you'll have to play natively. Also looks worse than native.
@@shebeski REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
@@dragontales1999 no high budget Ray tracing title coming out will not support both.
Who has to play native with heavy RT? Show me where?
DLSS looks better than native in a ton of titles. Most games "native" is TAA, which has much worse ghosting issues than quality DLSS and runs way worse.
DLSS 2.5.1 in quality mode is superior to any other option and is more performant.
I really would love you to push these cards in the ultimate test .. VR,. as in VRChat. you want some pixel burning numbers, that's the one you need to use. render 2, 4k images at the same time with an HP reverb G2 to get real numbers
Can you add star citizen for your testing? Not bc it’s the best game but bc it’s gpu utilization and other hardware utilization is crazy high. I’d love to know how these new cards perform with such a demanding title
Mate, I took week ago my new one 3090 almost 35% cheaper than 4070 Ti. There is no point of buying 4070 Ti in current price.
Guys even if you do have the option to buy a used 3090, it will still be a more profitable purchase when you look at around $600 versus $800.
You still need to search around a little bit with a used 3090 and probably haggle with the seller. This plus you are buying a potential mining card with a low chance to claim any warranty and finally the 3090 having issues with putting the vram on the back of the card. All of this together kinda makes the 4070ti a lot more appealing than the 3090
@@sentryion3106
Nope. I said I bought new one in this price, cuz I was lucky, but you didn't read. And in that price other auctions with used models are with warranty up to even 1.5 years without any risk. Just you need to know where to buy.
PS: The 3090 has normal 2x8 pin power plugs, not like that dangerous new connector in the 4070 Ti. It's not allowed even to little bend it, and the whole card is even more huge than the previous generation. Ridiculous.
in our region we can get 2nd hand 3080 ti for around 565USD, but even then I would say it's debatable whether you would get it over a brand new 4070 ti / 7900 xt.
Thank you very much for having this comparison 😁
3090's are ~$900 CAD here in Canada now. The cheapest 4070ti is ~$1150 (tax included), and it outperforms (outbenches) the 3090ti by about 15-20% at 50% power usage (maxed at 314w, avg around 250w). These are the results I got benching my Zotac 4070ti vs my Asus Strix 3090ti Hybrid, which I paid $1600 new for back when I got it. When it's all said and done, the 4070ti is priced just fine
Buy the cheapest model & flash the Strix vbios onto it, simple
I see the Zotac 4070ti start at $1180 here in Canada and that's without tax. There's no such thing as a tax included price for Canada as a whole since it varies widely by province. Plus Zotac is the cheapest for a reason, they are widely known to cheap out on PCB components
U know a 3080 and 3090 hardly had any performance differences 5% ish so last gen people bought 4070ti -(%5-10) performance for 700 and that too two years ago so this argument of urs is so deeply flawed and stupid I don't have words to describe it and also being on 5nm node gives power effecincy as a default u don't have to pay extra for that, which stupid people like u have started quoting as a kind of plus point. Enjoy ur $900 two year old $700 product. Congratulations for getting fooled 🤡 by nvidia into thinking a 3090 was as good as a 4090 last gen
I bought a 3090 exactly for this reason.
4070 Ti is neck in neck with the 3090 Ti at 4K and less than 10% better at 1440p.
COPIUM
Modern Warfare (1&2) highly favors gpu cache (like the new bigger L2 on the nvidia 4000 and the big AMD cache)
It even favors cpu cache too (that's why ryzen 5000 (non X3D) often can have really high fps (but also big drops when its full) on those two games
Every time a new gpu comes out all of sudden all the old gpus are not 4k cards anymore they 1440p cards lml
12 GBs of VRAM is not enough for 4k. If you plan to run 4k on either of these cards, then to save yourself headache and performance in the future as we get more and more VRAM usage go with the 3090. Frame generation if you're into that kind of thing would be the only reason I'd choose a 4070 Ti.
Hogwarts Legacy will tap out that 4070 on VRAM, CoD was pulling 10 gigs at 4k. I would never spend that much money on a card that is almost hitting it's hard VRAM limit the day I bought it by a game that's a year old.
@Mor MacFey That's a fair point, but because it performs well at 4k I could absolutely see people buying it for that. Especially with DLSS and frame generation.
@@ImaITman I'm using a 3070 at 3840x2160p and it works fine. Don't need to run max settings on everything besides the difference between ultra and like 2 tiers below that is hardly noticeable anyway. This idea that you need to have to have the absolute best GPU so you can run everything at max settings is silly. I can get a 60+FPS experience at 2160p in every game I play with just a 3070. The 4070Ti is fine.
3090 all day! DLSS3 is not a good enough selling point.
Agreed. I also want to add that where I'm from the price difference for a used 3090 and a 4070 ti is $270-300 USD
I picked up a used 3090fe a couple months back for $800, it was the right choice lol.
cool, they peforme overall on par, once is slightly more forward looking, and the other you have to buy used. Yeah, if the new is just as good, why buy used? derp derp
Buying used isn’t a big deal as long as you aren’t an idiot. I’ve had mine since before the 4070ti was out anyway so it didn’t matter in my case. Plus it felt good to put money in a persons pocket before the holidays rather than hand nvidia some cash.
It depends on what you're playing. I tried it on MSFS and DLSS 3 is definitely worth it (in that case). I wouldn’t use it on first person shooters, though.
3090 owner here that has had like 7 of them, for the vast majority of users just get the 4070ti.
Now the scenario where the 3090 would be better would be Minecraft with texture packs and complex shaders.
at 4k i've seen 41gb system ram usage and 21gb VRAM usage.
Yeah minecraft and emulators with custom texture packs are where you want the higher VRAM and higher system RAM (need 64GB System RAM at least for stuff like that).
You can get a 4070 Ti brand new for less than $1000, whereas people are charging over that for a used 3090 Ti...