Minesweeper Opening Strategy: Breaking 50/50s
Vložit
- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
1:38 Method explained
2:22 Analysis
6:05 How to play "the breaker" approach
7:10 Thank you :)
Special thanks to MSCoach, without his engine this video would not have been possible
Here's a link to the solver's page:
davidnhill.github.io/JSMinesw...
Thanks Scar for the collection of 50/50s :)
docs.google.com/document/d/1M...
Any feedback is very appreciated, enjoy! :) - Hry
My alternative solution to the 50/50: take the shot as early as you possibly could. This is so you don't waste time waiting on the dreaded 50/50 at the end. If it fails, boohoo, move on, if it succeeds, then let's go.
Thing is, it might not actually end up being a 50/50. It’s only a 50/50 at the start because of incomplete information, but if you’re able to glean more info about those 2 squares from the other side, you’ll be fine in a few cases. In the example case, the “breaker” tile is the one tile that can give enough information to break the 50/50. Since it’s an 80/20 instead of 50/50, it’s a much better starting choice because you’ll have an 80% chance to get the info you need on whether you actually need to take the 50/50.
Except when you just discover the 50/50 at the end
@@Otamatone69 that’s why the “breaking” cell is the first one you should try. You can know close to immediately whether it’ll actually be a 50/50 or not. If anything, it just makes the odds a little better on your 50/50 (like if it gives you a 2, the odds are actually way higher that the top cell of the 50/50 is the bomb). Worst case scenario, it costs you one extra click.
@@nuggetoftruth865 I mean when the 50/50 cell is only *discovered* at the end of the game,
not saving the potential 50/50 to the end.
Of course the video wasn’t talking about scenarios other than starting with it, but I was
@@Otamatone69 oh yeah, there’s no way to discover those early unfortunately
In high school I was the weird kid for always playing minesweeper in class. Loved it for ages and discovered a lot of the patterns on my own thinking I was the only one who gave a shit about the game. Only learned this past few months that there is a community for it. Coming across this channel was a delightful surprise! Would love to see more!
Same
@claudehuggins2754 In high school, i was weird kid and i sleept with your mother. Get lost
Minesweeper interested me because of how puzzle-like the game was in a way, but I was never into it enough to "obsess" over it like that. I'm sure I would've played MS Pinball a lot more in class over Minesweeper.
My god, I’m not alone
never did i think i’d end up watching high quality mine sweeper content but here we are
never did i think i'd be seeing squabble here
@@nonlmao as you can see im spending my retirement wisely
the worst in 50/50 is that they often shows up by the end when you almost finish
Yes omg I try go as fast as I can since I ususally get top 10 on daily ranking but I hate when it does that 😂it be like the last two sections too
When your fastest time is ruined by the last block to be cleared is part of a 50/50 and you choose poorly. *Turns to dust*
That's the most cunning😈
I love it when CZcams randomly recommends me a video that makes me aware of a whole subculture I never knew existed.
the only reason im here is because my crush is into minesweeper and i wanna impress them but ngl, this is actually a well made video
MINEBLOWING
Nice analysis!
It would have been nice to throw in the variant two squares above the breaker. It can be a good choice too, just not when going for winrate, and I think it's a pretty nice example for maximizing winrate vs identifying forced guesses early (and maybe still dying to them), which is also fine for eg endurance.
I would have never thought that a minesweeper community existed, but this video opened my eyes.
This will revolutionize my minesweeper games 😈Thank you
Thanks for this! It randomly showed up in my recommended and i just clicked on it. I'm glad I did because this is such a nice video. You have good tips, nice music and production, and a super nice voice IMO.
I love your 2 newest videos!! Amazing direction for your work! Looking forward to whatever you do next
The last video got me hooked into playing minesweeper. And this one is just as good! Thanks for the great content.
Commented,liked, and subscribed!
Never had interest in minesweeper, but this video is good and well made
May the algorithm bless you, sweeping stranger
I really enjoy the probability-labeled tiles, thank you :) as a stranger to the community
i got really into minesweeper during lockdown and im still obsessed it’s just so fun!
I know this was about a 50/50 at the start, but when i encounter 50/50s at the end of the game I just use a binary search for the flag locations. Usually there aren't that many flags left, and an alternate win condition is to have flags placed over all the bombs. This strategy is slow as hell, but outside of speedrunning I'd guess it's probably well known
That's not a win condition in any normal minesweeper
Unfortunately, Most versions I’ve played have required you to not just flag all bombs, But also ensure there are no other options, Forcing you to take 50/50s.
Yeah every game of minesweeper I’ve played the flags are purely there for you to remember whether you’ve deduced a square has a bomb or not, and have no actual direct effect on gameplay beyond that. The only win condition I’ve seen is clicking every non bomb square. What version do you play?
@@Hellooo134 No idea, when I was really into minesweeper I used an android app that looked like the old windows version, and it had this feature. I had no idea it was so uncommon since that's the only way I played the game for a long time
I started playing a few months ago and this is a great help.
So happy to see this new video, keep it up! (Great music)
what a splendid research you have done
Very helpful! Not only showing wha to do, but also showing how, and most importantly, why to do specific moves, thanks!
Thank you!
Discovering that there's people who actually like the game and don't take as meme it's a big surprise. It's good to know there's a community that like minesweeper.
Just found your channel by the algorithm and subscribed. Looking forward to more opening videos ^_^
0:01 at the bottom left there’s a 1 that definitely can’t be there
I saw this on my recommended page, then i saw it again in the minesweeper online chat. Amazing video :)
I didn't expect that there was an interest in this. I remember reading a paper about the best approaches a few years ago. And at the end they said that sometimes is just luck involved
Kinda satisfying seeing some tuber explain strats i’ve been using for years
Well done! And great taste in music 😊
Ladies and gentlemen, the minesweeper community.
I'm a big fan of these analyses of Minesweeper strategies. It is valuable to learn logical processes. I also really appreciate the recommendation in an earlier video of Chocolate Sweeper, which has taught me so many strategies for Minesweeper solving so I can more easily appreciate these videos
> never even touched minesweeper youtube video once
> just replayed minesweeper again after a good while
> this recommended
????how????
Though, it's a good video!
OOOhhh my man, you full fill me, its the first video of that i am watching, and i wanted so but to start using math in minesweeper
you have just introduced me to applied math in minesweeper
Just finished the video and started playing and the exact same scenario as the example happened, and I got lucky 😊
this video maked me complete my first game of minesweeper
Second strategy video, second time I'm called a newbie. Interesting approach. :)
I'll call It the newbie even when it'll be the best approach :) thank you
Nice, sometimes when I played any kind of board got lots 50/50 guesses that I won or lost. Well, if everything was perfect, imagine. Good video 💯👍
I wonder if someone would be able to code up a variant that checks for these 3 most basic 50/50 patterns after generating the board, then moves one of their inside mines to a random other tile and checks again.
Another idea I had was to make it let you start with a safe domino instead of just a safe click, which should drop the chance of dying with zero progress from around 19% on Expert to around 4-5% (I believe).
In combination, this Breaker strategy would become a 100% safe (and thereby quite relevent) opening, both in the analyzed (01 24) case, but also in the (13) case that would become possible with the safe starting domino.
I wonder what impact those two changes would have on the optimal winrates on Beginner, Intermediate, Expert, and some custom settings like 9x9/21 and 40x20/180.
I think it may be doable to code a generation algorithm that prevents random choices, but it may need too few mines
@@satibel Strategic guesses are an important part of Minesweeper, but someone has actually managed to code up an algorithm that removes all of them.
Sadly, the algorithm seems to be too slow to generate particularly large or difficult boards. Maybe it can be made faster?
great video! honestly, i've just been using my intuition for those, i just click on the one my mind thinks is more likely to be safe in that position lol
good analysis!
You sound exactly how I'd expect a god minesweeper to sound. I love these videos, thank you.
Sounds interesting! 50/50 are the bane of my existence so it’s cool to find a way to make them more manageable.
thanks for this, i always lose on these guessing scenarios
There is this game called Minesweeper: Collector, and it counts a round as completed if you flagged all the mines, so at a guessing spot you can just place the flag(s) in one way or another, until you found the one that works.
so you can win this game without mining a single cell?
@@mega_micro
Yes, basically. You can also just buy a bunch of scrolls from the shop to automatically flag random mines (12 mines is 30 coins, for example).
this mans voice is so calming to listen to, he sounds like G-Man explaining how to play minesweeper
For a second in 0:52, the video quickly flashes, then returns to it's original state
The best strategy is different depending on what you want out of the game. This one is for minimizing lost attempts. If you speedrun, you'll want to take high risks early, so you can get more attempts in a given amount of time. Or you play for mine density and just for fun: I Increase the amount of mines by one after every successful game. I make the best effort to finish every board, saving the guesses for last. (30x24 board, PB 195 mines, WR is 225)
I quite like 50 50, i tend to like probability a lot so when i have this scenarios i love to find my way around. Be it via "fake chances" like "aint no way its a line of 6 mines in a row" and trying to guess the result of algorithm the computer decided to get.
Both really fun and rather effective
really nice video
In that position, I like playing row 1 column 4 and row 4 column 1. Providing you don't blow up on either of those, there are only 3 unknown neighboring cells, so r1c4 is often a "1", and r4c1 is often a "2", both yielding progress. As an added benefit of r1c4 especially (but same is true of the other), you are likely to approach the troublesome breaker square (r3c4), and get information on it.
Maybe a metric worth considering would be: # of neighboring squares without information / Probability of dying?
Those two cells are called pseudo-corners, they are the equivalent of a corner. Getting a 1 or 2 respectively is the same odds as getting an opening in a corner. If you do not want to break the 50/50 immediately, they are better than the other corners if you consider time as a factor, as they are more likely to resolve the 50/50 in a shorter time.
Actual correct solution: give the phone to a friend
If they win: take credit
If they lose: put the blame on them
Profit
Play this game a lot and I rarely started in the corner and went for the middle. Also if you have played this game a lot you will learn that there are patterns which are helpful.
Excelent video! I'm fairly new to these strategies but have been a fan of the game for a long time. If you create a patreon I will subscribe for sure!
Thank you so much but no need,
It's enough support if you watch and like the video :)
I usually go for whichever would be more useful if it were a number, I either lose or I get better information vs lose or I get worse information
Ah, Scar's old guide must have been a treasure trove for the beginning of this video!
It came in pretty handy I must say :P
loved the video
iba a jugar una partida de apex pero el video me dejo enganchado
"Either one of these two things can happen: -you explode or -you survive"
Oh, thanks. I was hoping those were the only TWO possible outcomes
Great video on crunching the numbers of minesweeper though.
I accidentaly stumbled upon this video and by the looks of it by the time I do it again minesweeper will be an eSport
The best way to break a 50/50 is to say, "how tje hell have i gotten 4 of these bastards?" And click the cool dude in the top middle kf the acreen.
why the F did I get a Minesweeper video in my recommendations and why did I watch it entirely
thank you.
Thank you! :)
I have considered the breaker approach in the past, and wasn't sure if it was ultimately better. Interesting to find out that the computer thinks yes! How "computer-like" do you have to play for win% to get above the newbie approach though? If you reveal a 2, then do the other two clicks, is it really feasible for a human to understand the best path forward?
I mean I'm sure someone like Scar would get Better results playong the breaker, I Just like to pretend I would :P No I mean I use It all the time, It rarely comes down ti a complex situation but in that case if I feel that there's something more to try I Just use a hint
Someone that still plays Minesweeper? Nice!
What are you a pleb.. who doesn't..
@@vepply I was just surprised, cuz I don't find much Minesweeper content on CZcams..
I'm in love with Bach's WTC
?
tbh the thing i'm kinda missing is the actual extreme difficulty of skill
like sure... no guessing exists, but you can't really generate a board that would extremely dense yet solvable on the website, even though composing one by hand would be doable, would be fun to have some actual challenge that's nothing but raw skill, that can turn out to be just something that needs 4 layers of thinking
and a lot of ppl mostly expect the game of raw skill, not spending 2 minutes on clearing a board just to get wrecked by rng
How does the corner just below the revealed bombs compare to the newbie strategy? On the first sight it looks the same, but it may be a bit better due to a possible combination with our 50/50.
Id Say it's virtually the same
Another quality step checked! Big up Mine Buoy 😎
As someone who has never seen a minesweeper strategy video before, why even start at the corner? Wouldnt it be better to start in the middle and take into account that the corners have higher odds of having a mine due to if the first guess is a mine it will be moved to the corner?
My guess is the corners are harder to solve and more likely to create 50-50s. By starting in the corner, you only need to get to other 3 corners instead of all 4.
Well glad i been doing it right all these years....
Like just guess near by, so you at least have a chance to break the 50/50 sooner
Minesweeper is like a gambling card game, but the cards have a C4 attached that'll explode if you lose
i'm surprise that the probability is less to die in this way :3
Wait, people start in the corner usually? I literally always do a few random clicks around the center to get some large blobs to start out with, since if I fail, I was only 5 seconds in anyways.
it's only turning 50/50s into 60/40s. is there any time reverse technique for minesweeper? really need it a lot
Order matters!
thanx
youtube be like "he'll watch anything at this point"
Is there a version of minesweeper that adjusts/displays the probabilities on each square, as seen in this video?
Minesweeper.online does display probabilities like shown on this video :)
@@MineBuoy Thanks for the reply. I have looked around at the settings, and have even turned on all the "advanced game stats" etc and still don't see the option. If you could please tell me where the option to display probabilities, I'd appreciate it. I do appreciate the help. Your vid has somehow made me want to really get into minesweeper for the first time in 20 years. Cheers.
When playing a game you should see a small Square with what I consider to be a magic wand depicted in It. If you are in a guessing spot you click on It and use a hint, It Will tell you a solution. If there are no solutions It Will display the probabilities:) thank you!
I didn’t even realize people start with the corners.
I just choose some random slot in the middle and start from there.
Allright, but what about the square 2 tiles above the breaker, or the 2 squares belowe the bombs under the 2 and 4? In my games I would have instinctively used them, through I don't know if the math adds up.
They are virtually the same as the other corners :) not exactly but pretty much the same
Great video! Any strategies to get efficiency higher?
I'm not a very good efficiency player. Maybe One day I'll learn enough to make a video about It :P
@@MineBuoy no worries haha I’m awful with it and it seems like luck to me. I don’t think I’ll ever get the sniper achievement 😂😭
Are you in the discord server? You can be helped there.
@@oskain no I’m new to minesweeper
Hey is there a minesweeper with the 50/50 thing on the phone? If so could I get the app name?
wow my childhood game
Oh. These f*ckers... I hate those personifications of RNG Tomfoolery a lot. Very curious to see your take with them!
It’s easy to find them out.
how did you get the probribility nummbers on your screen?
The tiles you see with the probabilities in them can be found using hints in minesweeper.online in boardstates that have no solutions
Can I ask you what music you use in the background?
I don't recognize the first piece (Most likely by J.S. Bach), but the second one that starts at 01:17 is Bach's Partita No. 2 in C minor BWV 826 (He only used the Sinfonia, but it also has 5 more "movements" that are equally exciting). The third at 06:06 is the first fugue in Bach's Well-tempered Clavier Book 1. It's in C major, so a nice contrast to the previous piece :)
The First piece Is the prelude no 20 in A Minor from Book 1 of the Well-Tempered Claviere :) defenitely less famous than the other 2 Pieces, harder to recognize :P
nice
Just pointing out cause it caught my eye, at 7:12 on the left most side, that’s not in fact a 50/50 and can be solved by placing a mine above and below the current one and then removing the mine currently there
Interesting find, but I think the pattern is actually illegal. If you do as you said then you'll find the 2 near the top only has 1 mine satisfying it and no way to add an extra mine without breaking a constraint somewhere else.
you're welcome
here I am at 3 am watching some random minesweeper video
My strategy for avoiding this is to lose on my first click and I'm shockingly good at it
sorry if this is rude but what accent does he have? it sounds a lot like the 3 minute papers guy and it’s a pretty unique accent so ive always been a bit curious
I'm form Veneto, Italy
3:50 I didn't get it, why is there forced 50/50 if there is a bomb?
I don’t get why the score is progress/death. Wouldn’t it make more sense for the score to be progress+other/2 (where other is the chance you don’t die but you don’t gain info). This is a rough approximation for the probability you survive 2 rounds. A rough approx for the chance you ever stop guessing would be cutting the other slice into pieces with the same ratio as before and which give the equation progress/(progress+death)...
Hey wait a minute, that has exactly the same effect as what you already had XD
Nvm I guess.
I’m confused. How come progress and bomb chance don’t add up to 100%? What other outcome is there?
Getting another guessing spot :)
great content and idea, however i still find the trusted approach of "eeny meeny miny mo" to be more effective.
A leopard can't change its spots :P
Im sure this was explained but I missed it. Why would you want to start in a corner? Isnt that just asking to get a 50/50?
Buckle up reference
It is 3 am, what am I doing watching a video specifically targeted at it's intended diehard community and why did I finish it all
Lore of Minesweeper Opening Strategy: Breaking 50/50s momentum 100
so you break the 50/50 by taking the 50/50 somewhere else? xD