How is House of the Dragon Biased
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
- House of the Dragon is biased against the characters of the Green faction, but it favours the characters of the Black faction. Characters like Rhaenys and Corlys (and even Daemon to a certain degree) are portrayed far more positively than characters like Otto Hightower and Ser Criston Cole. I believe that the show does this deliberately so that the audience favours Rhaenyra and her faction as opposed to Aegon II and the members of his. In this video, I try to look at how the show does this and how it could impact the story going further.
#houseofthedragon #hotd #rhaenyratargaryen #aegontargaryen #alicenthightower #alicent #ottohightower #daemontargaryen #targaryen #hightower #corlysvelaryon #rhaenystargaryen #fireandblood #georgerrmartin #teamblack #teamgreen #bias #videoessay #foryou #ryancondal #miguelsapochnik #dragons #hbo #hbomax #teamgreen
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- Twitter X: / th3critclmaestr
CHAPTERS
00:00 - INTRO
01:12 - Bias IN FAVOUR of the Black Faction
01:31 - RHAENYRA
06:11 - DAEMON
07:12 - CORLYS
08:17 - RHAENYS
09:40 - Bias AGAINST the Green faction
10:30 - OTTO
10:42 - ALICENT
11:39 - SER CRISTON COLE
12:32 - LARYS
12:55 - AEGON II
16:26 - The IMPACT of Bias on the Story
18:23 - What do YOU think? - Zábava
No matter how hard they tried to villanize Alicent over Rhaenyra. But I never saw it. Alicent was a good friend, queen, and mother. Always trying to do the right thing. While Rhyaerya spend the entire time upset about her place and trying to make herself happy instead of readying to be the best queen she could be to prove the entire realm wrong...
i keep seeing the same pattern in some subreddits when they mention her: self-righteous....which is weird. someone who tries to be honorable in how she carry herself as queen is self-righteous? lol
@9razzler9 Yeah, I think that's crazy lol. but I guess can see what they're trying to say. Self-righteous in the way she carries herself by being honorable and putting herself second to duties. but I guess if you wanna go down that road, you have to go down ethics, principles, moralities, honor, and Duty... which is all a man-made construct. But I think generally speaking the majority of the world can somewhat agree on What is honorable and morally correct and what isn't.
But in all honesty, would a “good friend” marry your father? Pledge an oath to support your claim to the throne but in the end turn on that oath. I think your comment just proves it’s hard not to have a biased view when discussing this story.
They also gave book Rhaenyra's homophobic comments about Laenor to Alicent lmao its insane.
Wait, I thought there was rumor of Rhaenyra and Laena being "involved" together at times...
@@thalmoragent9344 Rumors + theories. Plus you can be gay and say homophobic shit. Rhaenyra is a massive hypocrite - consider her comments about Nettles and other bastards about their innate nature while she herself has three of them.
@perseusveil9376
Yeah, that's also very true.
I can't WAIT to see if she says that in the show 😅 won't that be something? Really curious to see how it all goes honestly, as I'm sure you are as well
@@thalmoragent9344 I am! But nah, they would never allow her to say fucked up shit haha specially because Nettles will be black. She was super classist with her, you can even argue that she was racist. Not going to happen, Show Rhaenyra is a flawless angel.
Things in books are said by the maesters.
Things in the show is shown by GRRM🙏🙏
I agree, i don't like the way they treated the green queen, they took away all her agency in the show while in the book she and Rhaenyra are both shown as being equally ambitious and determined to get to their common goal ( the iron throne) . they turned the green queen into a weak , easy to manipulate woman.
Yeah, that's right. I think you might be talking about my previous video, though 😆 But still, thank you for watching and liking the content. 💯
P.S. I think that on the show, they reduced Rhaenyra's ruthless ambition almost absolutely, and they replaced it with a sense of duty towards her father and his prophecy (A Song of Ice and Fire). It's a nice tie-in to the books, but it gives her character a lot less agency in my opinion. I might do a video on that as well at some point, just to delve a bit into that topic. Subscribe and stay tuned for that future content. 😉
@@thecriticalmaester9702 I just wished the show stayed as close as possible to the original tae and its characters . Dance of the dragons was my favorite I&F lore story .
I know most people who comments about this show are huge fans , I comment because i would have wanted to be a huge fan but got disappointed by all the plot changes
@@eglantinepapeau1582 Yeah, me too. There are some changes on the show that I actually really liked, but there were a lot more of them that I really really hated. I'm on the same boat as you - they should've tried to stay as close to the source material as possible. I respect Ryan Condal for trying, but Dave & Dan did the same thing too at the beginning of Game of Thrones, and then they started to deviate further and further until eventually the story became unrecognizable. I hope that the same thing won't happen with this show, because the story in the book is perfect as it is (in my opinion). 🤷♂
@@thecriticalmaester9702 that's right , these screenwriters nowadays think they can do "better" than authors like Tolkien or RR Martin, lol . as a consequence they are now being made fun of as they should .
Wow, dude. You are so stupid. Alicent is very intelligent and she has a lot of agency. Nobody can manipulate her by the time we get to Episode 6.
I think they made Aegon irremediably evil, being a rapist and sadist who enjoys seeing children fight. They could have made him a uninspired drunkard and womanizer in season 1 with hints at being a potentially good king once he receives the people's affection. Making him a rapist and child sadist makes him in my eyes completely unlikeable.
if they're going by mushroom's account on things, which is the only source where aegon is said to be a rapist and sadist, then they gotta at least put in all the horrible shit about rhaenyra or anyone on the mold cluster
Rhaenyra raped Criston, and Jaime raped Cersei once, but fans still love Rhaenyra and Jaime. It’s not that irredeemable for a character to be a rapist. Only difference is people loved those two characters before they even did the raping. The way we’re introduced to adult aegon, he is shown as a rapist pretty early on, so that’s how people will remember him for a while
All that stuff is from the books
so are the otger horrendous thing rhea does but they nit picked to make aegon worse.@@equusquaggaquagga536
@@equusquaggaquagga536 his character is not faithful to the books at all
I always thought it was weird because arent the Blacks essentially the Lannister in this story, with a bunch of illegitimate kids, the Greens seem to be more along the lines of Stannis with a much stronger claim to the throne, i always ask the peoples who root for the Blacks if they were also rooting for Cersei and her illegitimate kids
Maybe, it's unpopular opinion, but yes, I do root for Cerseu. The only person who in patrirchal world that has right to question child's parentage is legal father. Neither Laneor nor Robert ever denounced their children. In eyes of law, those kids are legitimate. So, yeah, I support Cerceis' children claim. I think it was very dumb and unjust from Ned and Stannis, they try act and usurp throne. Joffrey should be overthrown but because hewas terrible person and tyrant, not becuase of his alleged legitimacy. You cannot prove someone is bastard in this world, a stehre is no genetic tests. Only father can denounce child - Robert is dead and Laneor acknowledge children. If I would read story of Stannis in historical book I would think he is envious uncle who tried stole his nephews throne, not that his claim is stronger". Tommen or Myrcelle should get crown, not Stannis. Finally, even if you think Velaryon boys heritage is dubious, Rhaneyra still has two legitimate sosn - so if ANYOEN is to question older boys legitimacy, it's ONLY their younger brothers. Not whole other branch.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Robert Baratheon doesn't have to denounce his child when we have outsider knowledge of who actually is a true born baratheon, you are taking Cersei's side in a purely contrarian stance, not an objective one
By the Kingdoms own laws and Gods, Joffrey is illegitimate
@@Jostyy By Kingdom Law, Joffrey and his siblings are legitimate, as they were acknowledged as such by Robert. None can prove otherwise, as making genetic test is impossible. Theer ar emany Royals whose legitimacy were questioned, but they were acknowledged by their father so they bore father's surnames. As Corlys said: "History does not remember blood. It remembers names".
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 but we are talking as outsiders judging a story we have full knowledge of
We KNOW Joffrey is illegitimate and so why would you root for an illegitimate King? Or Cersei who wants to keep him there for very self serving goals
Unlike history, we have this story laid out to us and are given the information of who is right or wrong
We judge them externally, outside of the world of ASOIAF trying to reframe this as "well we wouldn't know in world!" Completely ignored the context of the video we are commenting on and what my comment was about
When we have the information shown who is legitimate or not, to chose to root for the illegitimate is just purely of contrarian nature since people in general lean towards what's Fairer or Just
@@Jostyy First of all - I am NOT rooting for Joffrey as person. I am rooting for his siblings. Second - and do you think that Stannis conisdered himself martyr because he had to now becoming Kings instead of doing whatever he was doing till now??? Stannis was just ambitious as Cersei. He wanted crown because he was selfish and power hungry. I am on law side - and from law side we don't have nothing against Cesrei's children. Were they acknowledged by Robert? Yes. Had he renounced them? No. Is there any possible way to prove they aren't legitimate? No, there isn't. So case is CLOSED. Everyone hates Joffrey because he is terrible human being, but what if Joffrey was kind and caring individual, loved by people and Stannis was ambitious brute? (I mean - he was, he burnt alive his own daughter, and not only her, but whatever.) If Joffrey was kind person, people would cheer for him. But he isn't and Cersei loves her brother, so people view them as deviant. But I ownder what if Joffrey was kind and Jaime wasn't her brother... In eyes of law they are Baratheons. Thta's all what matters. Stannis is here selfish usurper. Cersei is also selfish - but she at least has law at her side. And she doesn't burn her children on her lovers demand.
I still find it weird that Rhaenys and Corlys supported Rhaenyra after what she and Daemon did to Laenor and Vaemond.
I'll be making a video on that in the future...
So you mean you find GRRM, the author weird???
Coz it is him who made them do that.
How stupid can you be to challenge the author himself😆🤣
@@musiclover9518yes we find that weird in the book too
That's beyond weird I agree, makes totally no sense. Also, it's the idea that she is putting them through unnecessary suffering when Rhaenyrs could have said that Laenor was still alive. I also didn't like when Rhaenys had a go at Alicent about "serving men" when she pretty much does the same thing herself. There are a number of choices which make little sense, in the way they've gone about things.
@@663lotty i think Rhaenyra telling the truth would have been worse for her, if they knew they all did that so she could marry Daemon, Rhaenyra had to propose marriages AGAIN to gain them back as allies, if she didnt she would have lost them or at least they would have remained neutral. Rhaenys telling Alicent that made 0 sense to me after how she ask her husband to make Baela heir and he refuses becase he wants Luke as heir, she later defends his husband desires in front of viserys so she's trapped in the same system alicent it is.
I kinda hate Rhaenyra’s depiction the most, and it’s why I had to stop watching the show tbh.
The show wants you to see her as the main protagonist and as the character to feel sorry for and root for. In reality, though, so many of the narrative’s issues trace back to her.
She wants the Iron Throne and complains often about how her being a woman has made her journey to it much harder. All the while, she is given a clear cut path, and yet decides to fool around and have obvious bastards. This tarnishes her reputation a bit and makes things harder for her overall, and yet she gets mad at others (Alicent, mainly) for using it to their advantage in their own bids for the throne. As if none of them have the right to want what she does. Incredibly spoiled.
She also bases her claim to the throne on being the King’s daughter, yet she ignores the fact that her father only got the throne because another woman in her family was screwed over for her birthright because she was a woman. So Rhaenyra bases her claim to the throne on being her father’s eldest child, even though she is a woman, despite the fact that this rule would have stopped her father from ever being King in the first place. It just makes Rhaenyra seem entitled and selfish tbh, especially since we’re supposed to hold the “Queen That Never Was” as some sort of role model for her.
This genuinely makes her one of my most hated Targs. She's reached a new level of self importance and entitlement, which says a lot considering her competition in the family.
That’s actually what I love about the show. Is that Rhaenyra isn’t perfect or without fault and lied to the king, which is treason.
They wanted her strong, independent, sympathetic, good. But They made her fking retarted and hypocrite. I couldn't watch the show too.
No her father named her his heir . there is a big difference.the rule was changed by king as in real history
I have been saying this for the longest while now and here is what I find. Most Black supporters also happen to be Daenerys fans and they literally seen Rhaenyra as the new Dany who in their view can redeem the "injustice" of season 8. I remember being very excited when I heard that the Dance of Dragons was coming to screen, what I loved about it especially from reading Fire and Blood and also Princess and the Queen is that no side was truly good or truly evil, just a lot of morally grey characters, but House of Dragon destroyed that narrative entirely in favour of a clear Rhaenyra bias.
I read the book, and I watch the show . I'm also black supporters. But it has nothing to do with Dany. I hated the Greens in the book, and I never understood their support. I also hate the Greens in the show.
I haven't read the books so knew nothing about any of the characters prior to watching the show. And after watching the show I'm a black supporter. It's nothing to do with being bias, people are going to like certain characters whether other people like them or not. Being ok with people supporting the greens but not the blacks is just hypocrisy
@@rosita3528 you missed the entire point of the video. It's not about whether it's OK to like the blacks or greens. The point of the video is that the show takes a slant towards liking the blacks while the book narrative gives a more nuanced viewpoint. In the show, its a clear case of black (no pun intended) and white but in the book there are so many shades of grey, that's the whole point. There is nothing hypocritical in wanting the on-screen portrayal to stay true to the original narrative
@@truetory6231 like I said, I haven't read the books but so many book readers post spoilers everywhere so what I do know is thar in the books Daemon didn't kill his wife because he was at the stepstones, and Aemond killing Lucerys wasnt an accident and they made Alicent less evil. So in the show, the made Daemon kill his wife, they made Aemond killing Lucerys an accident and the made Alicent more sympathetic. So no I don't think the show is completely bias towards the blacks
@@rosita3528 the show also made Rhaenyra far more sympathetic in the show than in the books whereas Aegon is turned from a ladies man in the books to a rapist in the show, that was most definitely an unnecessary change designed for one purpose only.
I felt like after the timeskip Rhaenyra seemed almost like an entirely different character, and I don't just mean in terms of the actor's performance. Both actors did a fine job, but post-time skip it just doesn't feel like that's the person the child would grow up to be. I know time wears people down, but no matter how you wear someone down the core is still there under the surface.
I agree. I should probably do a video on that soon. 🤔
@@thecriticalmaester9702yes please because I always say this! Loved Rhaenyra when she was young but older Rhaenyra just seems so not Rhaenyra like I cannot explain it
Rhaenyra became a mother. Motherhood changes women.
@@faegotte Not THAT dramatically though
She is and it’s literally shown. She just outwardly is presenting more as what she’s expected to be.
The Queen That Never Was is a compliment toward Rhaenys, not an insult.
And I felt like Aemond was VERY sympathetic especially as a child.
Even Aemond feels odd on the show as he is arguably one of the least redeemable Green's in the books, but seems to be the most redeemable out of the Green's on the show, despite being the one who technically begins the war. (excluding Helaena of course, everyone loves her)
Incredibly sympathetic in the show.
the queen that never was is a compliment for rhanenys but a insult to the smallfolk
I'm Team Rhaenyra i don't blame her for what she did what the greens put her threw stealing her thrown that her father named her his heir n 2nd in line when he dies n they betrayed her n allicent son murdered her son
@@MICHAELMYERS37 right I’m not understanding why they don’t get it? Her brother killed her son? And another brother usurped her, although he was put up to it by his mother
They did this with the Lannisters especially in the first season. They do this all the time, they make us love a character only to find out later that we misjudged them, or hate it only to sympathize with it later on. I believe in later seasons they will l reverse the roles a bit and start showing the Blacks doing some terrible things, and make us more sympathetic towards the Greens.
They will surely do a Rhaenyras fall arc. For the redemtion of the greens however there are not enough time or material, I doubt that they will try to do it. And about Daemon... he is already shown a worse person than he is in the books, so you do not need to make him look bad more.
@@thedoomofvalyria6466 I agree with you on the Rhaenyra's "fall arc" part. She already had that Daenerys "Dracarys look" in her eyes in the last shot.
However I never really used the word "redemption" in reference to the Greens. All I said is that they tried to make us hate their side all season long (in season 1) and instead root for Rhaenyra's. But I believe in later seasons they're bond to make us 'sympathize' with them a little bit. I mean they just LOVE to emotionally confuse us on that show 😂
As for Daemon, yes, I agree with you also, I think they've already successfully established that he's a really complex character, in season 1, and I don't think this is really ever going to change for him for the remainder of the show.
I really hope so!!
Lol the lannisters were still pretty bad
Cersei was. Jaime had a Herculean redemption arc.
I have written an entire article about how bias the show is against the greens and posted it once on Reddit. It pains me a lot because love the show. Great Video.
Thank you for watching. ♥
Can you share the link, pls?
@@yasmina3999 Here is what i had written :
title : The showrunners don't want you to side with the greens or to think that they are the rule of law and order.
I. Beyond the Bastards: Rhaenyra's Claim to the Throne
Though the show emphasized the illegitimate status of Rhaenyra Targaryen's sons as a weakness in her claim to the throne, it neglected to address whether her ascension was legally justified by any means. Rhaenyra's claim is problematic, as it relies on the desires of her father rather than any established laws or precedents. If the lords of the seven kingdoms were unwilling to support the stronger claim of Rhaenys due to their adherence to tradition and their preference for a male heir, then it is doubtful that they would rally behind Rhaenyra, who not only has a weaker claim but also appear to be putting the stability of the realm in danger by planning to get obvious bastards on the throne. The oaths of fealty that they swore to Viserys, taken in the absence of a trueborn son, hold little weight compared to centuries of traditional practices. The fact that they later assumed a loss of status for Rhaenera after the birth of Aegon further illustrates this point.
II. Is there a limit to Royal Authority in Westeros?
The show failed to adequately clarify the extent of the king's power to alter laws of succession that helped him ascend to the throne. Viserys stated: “Even I do not exist above tradition and duty”, implying that he does not hold sway over the customs and is bound to fulfill his duties as king. However, we have also heard him say: ”I did not decide the name Rhaenyra my heir on a whim”, suggesting that he is powerful enough to select his successor. These two contradictory statements live the audience unsure about the method of succession and are reasons why many of them believe that Rhaenyra is the rightful heir only because Viserys chose her.
When it comes to succession, the Great Council established precedent. If a king's decrees hold absolute authority, what is the value of a king's decree alongside the written order of the entire feudal realm? If a king ignores precedent, the following questions arise to guard against tyranny: is this reversal whimsical? Is the king considering the consequences? Do the parties that established the precedent approve? Did the king come to power through this same precedent? The answers to these questions reveal that only through the Great Council can we view Viserys's decision as dangerous, not due to the issue of male versus female succession, but due to the potentially arbitrary nature of the nobility's allowance of the king's authority. It is safe to say that either the showrunners overlooked this crucial aspect of the story despite it being a key factor in the Greens' justifications and the same factor that ironically brought Viserys to power or they chose to retcon it for the benefit of their audience. The doctrine of exceptionalism is enough evidence to believe that Westeros is not entirely at the mercy of their king's wishes and desires. The king in a feudal society such as Westeros is powerful only when he is supported by the ruling entities of his kingdom. There is a limit to his power.
III. The Importance of Jaehaerys’s Great Council
Jaehaerys the conciliator played a crucial role in establishing the legal order and stability of the Targaryen royal project and the feudal consensus in Westeros. He was known for his wisdom and fairness and worked to reconcile differences between various factions within the realm. He was a skilled politician and diplomat and was able to maintain peace and stability throughout his long reign. Viserys, by comparison, pales in comparison to the esteemed reputation of Jaehaerys. His calling of a great council, composed of the lords and nobles of the Seven Kingdoms, to discuss the matter of succession set a precedent that shaped the ascension to the throne. “The Iron throne could not pass to a woman or to a male descendant through a woman”. No matter how unfair this may sound, it is the standing backed by the nobles of Westeros. A mistake we often make is trying to see Westeros by choosing our world as a reference. It is only by looking at Westeros through the eye of Westerosi people that we may make sense of the things happening on that continent. Male primogeniture preference has been their norm, their tradition.
If Andal law is refuted by some recalling the fact that Targaryens aren't Andals, not all of Westeros follow Andal law …., the Great Council however cannot have the same treatment because of its representativeness of an entire ruling class, it is the lords who voted for an heir. Verily, until the way of succession is altered by a similar council or a written law approved by all of the entities of Westeros, it shall remain as set forth by the Great Council.
VI. The Removal of Alicent's Motives, the Obsession with Rhaenyra.
It is worth noting that in the book, Alicent was not a childhood friend of Rhaenyra; rather, she was a young friend of the Old King Jaehaerys, whom she would read stories to him as he lay dying. The decision to change the character of Alicent from being a friend of Jaehaerys to a friend of Rhaenyra was a subtle but significant alteration to her character. It meant that Alicent could no longer refer back to her childhood or to the service she rendered to Jaehaerys for precedent and justification for her actions; she could only look to Rhaenyra. This meant that everything Alicent did from that point on would be based on Rhaenyra, and her character would therefore not be independent of the princess. This is why many have shipped Alicent and Rhaenyra as a romantic couple on social media; the writers effectively reduced Alicent to the role of a junior lover in a cheap romance, rather than allowing her to develop into a fully realized political agent in her own right.
V. The Sabotage of the Greens
The showrunners have demonstrated an inability to effectively convey the complex political motivations of the characters in the Dance of the Dragons. They have eliminated the political framework and context that defined the factions in the conflict, ignoring crucial issues such as Targaryen exceptionalism, the rights of the nobles, the rights of precedent, and the plight of the common people (so far). They have even erased 90% of the Stepstones, a key event in Daemon's career and mindset. By focusing the show on Rhaenyra, they have effectively cast it from her perspective, rendering the Greens as traitors to the audience and the script. This has led to the portrayal of Daemon as 'dangerous, but cool' and Aemond as a maniac, while legalistic arguments are only considered in relation to their benefits for Rhaenyra. The Green Council, which in the book was a re-cast of the Great Council a generation earlier, debating many of the same issues and repeatedly referencing the precedents and rulings of Jaehaerys, is presented in the show as an obsession with denying Rhaenyra's claim solely because she is a woman. Instead of debating law, Otto debates murder. Instead of championing her sons, Alicent champions Rhaenyra. Instead of executing Beesbury after hours of him filibustering and obstructing proceedings, Ser Criston accidentally bonks his head on the table in a sudden fit of rage just seconds into Beesbury's opening speech. The Greens are effectively doomed from the start of the show, with only Rhaenyra being seen as important and relevant to every person on the continent, even though in the book she was actually the plight of the underdog. This focus on a single character as being so central and significant to every aspect of the story is the primary error of the show, and it began in Episode 1 - or even earlier, when the showrunners failed to fully engage with the source material. As a result, political complexity is impossible in the show, and this problem will only worsen in future seasons.
VI. What Can We Expect for the Future
Without either a strong framework for political complexity or a strong sense of relativity in character writing, it is unlikely that the show will improve upon these flaws in future seasons. Season 2 is likely to exacerbate these problems significantly. The Green Council and the years preceding it were the times when the Greens honed their finest arguments and developed their character arcs. Everything that comes after is not about Otto, Alicent, or Aegon making arguments, but rather about defending the conclusions they have already reached. The only conclusions that are presented for the Green side as the war begins in the show are that "women can't rule, patriarchy, Alicent is still obsessed with Rhaenyra, Aegon is a rapist but Otto doesn't care because he's Littlefinger lite." Overall, the plot of the show is not salvageable, it failed the Greens before even the start of the dance. And while the battles may provide some interesting and spectacular CGI television, there will be little to hold viewers' conflicted about which side to root for.
With the killing of the greens' legal arguments, it is clear that their efforts to seize the throne render them the antagonists of the story, regardless of any subsequent offers of peace. The blacks, on the other hand, are portrayed as reacting to aggression while seeking to avoid war, making them the heroes in the eyes of the audience.
The show's portrayal of the Dance of the Dragons (so far) falls short in its representation of the complexity and nuance of the source material. Rather than delving into the depths of the story, it reduces the narrative to a superficial and oversimplified depiction, primarily the purpose of spectacle and the heroification of Rhaenyra Targaryen as a "Dany 2.0”.
House of the Dragon could have been a more well-rounded and complex adaptation of the Dance of the dragons.
@@me-fm8nl great text, thank you. 💗
Yes, please link it!!!
The worst thing that daemon and rhaenyra did was let rhaehnys and corlys believe that their son Laenor is dead. Even years later after they get married and have a bunch of kids they still don't tell them the truth that their son is still alive in essos somewhere. That's the most unbelievable part, that even though they suspect they were the ones that killed their son so they could be together they still choose to support her claim for the throne
In book Laenor for sure is dead, but Corlys and Rhaneys still support Rhaneyra. They had no other choice - none can proove Rhaneyra anything and all of their grandchildren (both biological and legal) are on Rhaenyra's side. By suuporting Rhaenyra, Corlys and his wife are protecting their remaining family members. It does not matter wheter Laenor is dead or who really disposed him - Jacaerys, Joffrey, Baela and Rhaena are alive and are supporting Rhaenyra, so grandparents had to also be.
the worst thing was Killing an innocent servant ai think 😅
@@HatsuneChiko Agree (though I want personally believe this man did some shady things and that's why Laenor and Daemon chose him 😅😅).
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518why would you think that? They probably choose the one that was most indefends
@@andorea11 This whole situation is poor writing. Choosing random person doesn't really have much sense and also doesn't fit show-Rhaenyra personality and personality of Laenor. She just said "you are honourable man with goood heart". And this "good man" would really despose some innocent? I like to believe this guy who was put in his place was for example political spy or something and that's he was chosen - because he would be killed anyway. Instead of execution he simply got broken neck.
"What sort of brother steals his sister's birthright?"- aegon
GRRM has said that anything good said about Aegon II is propaganda
@@equusquaggaquagga536 his opportunity seeker a good ass trait lets no act like she didnt want aemond to be tortured for saying the truth but never punish luke for jumping aemond and taking his eye black propaganda is all in this show green supremacy
*The sort who doesn't want to see his sons and brothers dead.*
The Black bias in HotD is what undermines the whole story from F&B. At the heart of the original story was a tale about two factions who were equally justified in seeking succesion claims, but saw their goals derailed by poor decision making by the main players, particularly Visarys, Otto, and Rhaenyra. For me, the story always read as a homologous set of errors, not as a fight between the Brady Bunch and the Adam's Family, which is how the Greens are portrayed in this series. I do like the show overall, but I do feel that some of the character/plot changes were completely unnessary.
"The Brady Bunch and the Addams family" lol 🤣💀 Totally agree with you, though.
There's a ton of bias from the writers for individual characters too. We all know the clear bias for Team Black but for instance they make Aemond a bit better in the first season than his book version but it's only bc the writers themselves liked Aemond and more specifically the actor playing him so they're more lenient. But the other Green characters? Well, they give Aegon hardly any scenes or show anything characterization like how he has one of the strongest bonds of any Targaryen with dragon Sunfyre and the scenes he does show up in are only to make him the evil villain. Same with thing done to Otto. For Helaena, they give her no characterization or humanizing scenes. Not even with her kids which is already undermining the attachment the viewers should have for her and her children when B&C happens. Alicent is a bit of both. In some regards they make the audience sympathize with her but in others they remove a lot of her reasonings that were present in the book. Namely she supports Aegon in the books because she feels by law that his birthright is being stolen in addition to being fearful of his life. However the show completely removes most of Team Greens political justifications for why they're going with Aegon. Instead Alicent in the show is mostly portrayed to be motivated mainly by Rhaenyra not being her friend anymore and lying to her about sleeping around
They aren't "equally justified". Rhaneyra is heir and ONLY her claim is justified. Aegon is usurper who took crown not because she was a bad ruler, but because she wasn't a man.
“Equally justified”??????????
Im not sure that the green side was justified in seeking succession claims even in the book.
My biggest problem with Rhaenyra being heir is that, not only did she try to pass off bastards as trueborn kids, which got people killed, but she also does not want to familiarize herself with her nation's bureaucracy. If I were Rhaenyra, the moment Otto gets fired, I'd work to get the position of Hand or at least get someone close to me to become Hand, and work with them to study how the kingdom runs. I'd work day and night to make sure the bureaucracy of the nation runs smoothly, and I'd be paying attention to every detail and problem in the realm. Hell, I'd probably save myself for Aegon II, so I can solidify my hold on the throne by wedding the king's only male heir. Getting Aegon II as my spouse and working hard with the bureaucracy would mean that when Viserys kicks the bucket, I'd be perfectly positioned to take over, as I can use Aegon II to reinforce my claim to the throne, and since I'd be running the kingdom before that, getting crowned would barely be a formality.
Instead, Rhaenyra would rather engage in follies and not familiarize herself with the mundane aspects of ruling. I believe this is a mistake. If she wants to be queen that badly, the first thing she should do is learn how to rule.
Exactly! Everything you wrote here is spot on, in my opinion. 🙌🏾
They are trueborn kids since Viserys, Laenor, and Corlys considered them as such.
@@Chasingdreams25None of the 3 would admit otherwise because by doing it, would mean admitting Rhaenyra commited treason, that's why they're passing them as Laenor's 'trueborn kids' even when they know its not.
The reason i support Green is Viserys Hypocrisy. He is fine being King but he choose her own daughter instead his son. That's like dismissing his own throne. Deep down we know Vaemond soeaking the truth. Rhanerya child not even legitimate.😁
I still support the greens
Me too. But the narrative is still very biased against them.
@@thecriticalmaester9702but do you like the at least
@@Psychoshell Yeah, definitely. This channel is dedicated to them - is in support of the Green side. For me, they are far more fascinating characters (perhaps with the exception of Daemon from the Black faction).
Can't wrapp my head around it 🤮🤮 Can't understand how anyone can thinks Aegon was proper material to be ruler.
@@thecriticalmaester9702In the books the green's king seemed like a decent person definitely not outright evil at least so I understand why you'd support them using the books versions but the greens in the show are absolutely terrible in every way shape and form their is no redeeming qualities that even come close to the blacks side, so I don't understand how you could be on their side if you are referring to the shows version.
I agree, my biggest issue is the treatment of the women (Rhaenyra, Rhaenys, and Alicent) as peaceful and those trying to avoid war at all cost but it just comes across as them either making dumb decisions or them being reliant on men(as you showed with Rhaenys) which goes against the show’s attempt at showing “girl power.” The connections bet. these three female characters are so weak yet the show tries to make them seem real deep like Rhaeny’s and Alicent bonding over their roles as mothers.
I agree. I blame the state of the world. This is more a product of its time than anything else in my opinion.
Yea agreed, they fell into the “strong female lead” trap. By wanting the woman to be stronger and better than everyone else they end up making a flat character that’s less interesting than they might have been.
i hate it even more when it's the older men around them that want war. i just know the writers are thinking that it makes it seem like men are savages, but it's just the men calling these women stupid. and they are. and they're not supposed to be
Exactly. Rhaenyra was way more bloodthirsty in the book. Alicent was also more cunning and politcally savvy but she only wanted to fight to keep her kids alive. Rhaenyra fought because she thought she was entitled to the throne. Rhaenys wasn’t featured as much as Rhaenyra and Alicent but she was also more than willing to fight.
@@eeyun5279which might be why the audience is more interested in Daemon or Aemond. Nobody likes boring characters. Daemon, Aemond, and even Cole are more interesting than the female leads.
It's truly unfortunate just how things turned out in this respect given how wonderful an opportunity they had to make a very morally complex civil war story. I feel that many of Aegon's future triumphs and tragedies are going to fall rather flatly with the audience given how he has little characterization, nearly all of which is negative.
The one saving grace I think will be the actor playing him. I thought in episode nine he was excellent when he did the walk down and displayed the emotions he felt, for actually feeling supported, instead of being manipulated. I can't wait to see what he does with Aegon going forward.
In these moments I remember what Dumb and Dumber once said, that they wanted to make GoT easy to mums and NBA players understand, or something similar. The more, the better. And as soon as HotD was announced I knew they would portray Targaryens as the picture perfect ones, for the audience was on verge of ripping HBO to pieces because of picture perfect Daenerys terrible end. They may use the books as base material, but what matters most is appeasing Dany fans, the only ones who remained because fans of other characters had gradually left the show before season 8 (my case, Dorne and Stannis favs), most of them didn't read the books, so yeah, HBO wants money, and audience only wants a new Daenerys to worship. Reading the comments I saw that even black queen's -phobe coments were ironically transfered to Alicent?! Woah, tak about a saint queen this Rhaenyra lol
Same with making her
a)Not have Laenor murdered to open herself for marriage(while Alicent is complicit in the elder Strong's deaths thanks to an offhand comment to Larys "Clubfoot").
b)Not being the one to order Velaryons brother dead because he called her children bastards, unlike the book, and her being grossed out by it(because she's sooooo perfect and not at all wrong ever, right?)
c)Treating it like Aemond was in the wrong for his cousins attacking and dogpiling him, with him defending himself accordingly, because "he called my kids names!"(Still hate that she treats Alicent like SHE was being unreasonable).
Last year when the House of Dragon first aired i remember i was a total team black fan, i was rooting for Ranerhya and dameon and rhanerhyas succession to the iron throne. However, as i continued to watch i noticed a lot of negative traits in Rhaneryah and team black personality and values. The first thing i noticed is that i feel like people are rooting for Rhanerya because Shes a woman and they want to see a strong female lead fighting for what she believes in and what is her right. Although i think people forget that this takes place in a period where woman were not heard and had no power, people are forgetting that this is not taking palace in a society that we live in today. The reality is that the directors filmed this in an away as if it was taking place in a period were women had more liberation.
. However, the first questionable approach i had towards rhanerya was when she lied to Alicent about having outside affairs and then got her father kicked out of the palace, although she did not have affairs with Dameon but, she still did though and then lied about it. The second thing was when she took advantage of Ser Cristion Cole, ruined his image self esteem and potentially could have gotten him killed. The third was when Rhanerya had an oppunrnity to court other men and instead destroyed it by being rude and arrongant, and yes people say that she was young ect but if she is planning to be a female queen she should carry herself as if she was by demanding respect instead of using it to be spoiled. The fourth was when Rhanerya [son not sure which one], stab Alicents son in eye and she did not discipline him for what he did or even discipline him for teasing him for not having a dragon, meanwhile she just expects her dad to fight all her battles. The final straw for me is that Rhanerya is trying to put illegimante children on the Iron throne, yes, Alicents children are crazy in their own way however at least all her children are legimate Targarenyas that are supposed to sit on the iron throne. However, these are just my opinion and how i feel about it hope it all makes sense.
Makes total sense. I agree with you in that I felt the same way. I was Team Black in the beginning, but then I started to see all of the crazy things that Rhaenyra and her faction were doing. Even when you read the books it's kinda obvious that Rhaenyra was not competent nor did she carry herself like the queen that she wanted to be. She's a spoiled princess who has a lot of entitlement issues. She wants the throne but she doesn't realize that it comes with a lot of responsibilities, duties and an adherence with the rules. Rather, she is a rule-breaker and she doesn't care about custom, tradition, duties, nothing. So, even though I can understand the plight of a young woman feeling oppressed by a patriarchal and misogynistic society like Westeros, I just don't think that she was the best person to put forward as a candidate for the monarchy.
The only true reason why I lean more towards The Greens is because, even though Aegon is incompetent himself, the people who serve him are very competent and effective. They have experience governing well and they can potentially mold him into being a better ruler. There's nothing in the book that suggests that Aegon II was mad or incapable of learning. He probably drank a lot, yes, but it always seemed to me like the true masterminds behind his reign were his mother, his grandfather, and Ser Criston Cole. Say what you want about all these people, but they did rule well, and they ultimately gave the Seven Kingdoms peace and plenty. The Blacks cannot boast he same.
A great video I support the greens.
Nothing good about supporting envious bitter queen and man who assaults women.
Great you admitted you are misogynist.
I am so glad I found this video. This is exactly how I felt about the show. It was incredible at moments, but I couldn't help but feel that these subtle changes shifted the entire substructure of the story and the conclusions you are supposed to draw from it. Especially the Catspaw dagger; it feels incredibly forced and out of place. Also, maybe someone could answer this for me - what would the necessity of keeping Aegon's dream secret from the realm? Wouldn't it only help their cause if everyone knew the truth about the White Walker's and the Long Night?
If I were to guess, I'd say that the purpose of keeping it a secret would be to not cause panic? Also, a lot of people might not believe them if they did tell the secret openly, and they'll probably just end up turning on them, thinking that they're absolutely crazy. People don't want to be led by someone that they believe to be mad. So it's best to keep your dreams and prophecies to yourself, rather than to tell everyone at the risk of looking insane. Lol. 😅🤷🏾♂
Practically removing Daeron from the show also served the clear purpose to build bias against the Greens. There was very little bad you could say about him, and that is something the showrunners did not want.
Totally agree.
Finally, someone points this out, thank you. Been team Green the whole time, you got my vote Maester!
Thank you! 😄
Hmmmm...as a writer myself I see the seeds in Season One of a redemption arc for many of the Greens, with a damnation arc for many of the Blacks. If characters do not change, then there is no real story. But we shall see.
Since the moment of Aegon being a rapist there is no return, it was a poor decision especially bc he is the face of the green team, such a shame
@@andorea11people just hate the greens. there's so many rapists in got, yet people adored drogo and jaime. if aegon wasn't a rapist in the show, people would still site mushroom's account. they do it anyways to say he's a pedophile too.
@@andorea11Well considering he also does a bunch of horrible shit on Fire and Blood, and the conflict is often better described and known as "The Princess and The Queen" and that most of the political shitshow happened before he was born/when he was a toddler, it makes sense that he would get little characterization, you need to set up all the players that had been around 14-17 years before Aegon was even born, specially all the stuff Rhaenyra was getting up to at the time, but considering how brief his life is, and that he isn't exactly a competent monarch in his brief time, and that he feeds his sister to a dragon in front of his nephew, who is like 5 at the time, I don't think Aegon was ever gonna be seen as justifiable or good, which is fine because very early on he is taken out of the fighting and incapacitated anyway, The real figurehead and important figure within the greens is Alicent (Who is like one of like 4 people who survive this nonsense) and Aemond to a lesser extent considering he is regent while Aegon is injured, but Aemond gets up to some shit even worse and more psychotic than Aegon or Rhaenyra, but season 2 will inevitably show one of the biggest flaws of Rhaenyra as a monarch which is her growing paranoia that leads her to make enemies out of allies like Cersei, I think the show is all about how people like Alicent and Rhaenyra through living tragedy after tragedy find themselves amidst a war neither one wanted, the cost of war on women and all since the show is mostly through the perspective of women, and I imagine we will get some of this through Helaena as well, since I hope she doesn't get as shafted as she did in the books.
The Greens and The Blacks both get up to some truly unforgivable shit, but I don't think actions like the murder of Luke or the Blood and Cheese incident can be seen as the acts of the entire group when each has or will have a particular character instigating it, and I actually think the Blacks genuinely seem better at this point in time in the show because they also seemed better at this point in time in the books, if anything Alicent looks WAAAAAAY better in the show than she does in the books, not conspiring for years to usurp Rhaenyra and not wishing that she dies in childbirth, or any of the vile shit Accounts Claimed she did or said during the Dance.
I am 100% agree with you in general👏👏👏
This is ridiculous how people do not see this bias!
They've completely hidden all Rhaenyra's black pages - and highlighted every bad word about the greens.
Though, I must say, they've put some hints that Daemon WOULD be a bad guy on the black side. I can totally see him doing all the "dirt work" that happened in books, leaving Rhaenyra totally innocent in any bloodsheding.
Also they gave Alysent ENOUGH qualities to be concidered a sympathetic character (not better than mother_of_the_century Rhae, of cause!). And she is constantly remembering how she loved Rhaenyra LOL. But bad-bad men, this is all their fault!!! 😈😈
Velaryons are constantly acting against their own interests. And Criston Cole is just some bad guy from cheap teenage drama🥱 They didn't even try to make something real with this
A lot of bias is people is they prefer Starks over Lannisters. People loathe Lannisters.
My thing is the show did so well at slogging the blacks, that 80% of fans think it was totally fine Aemond was attacked and lost an eye. Even cheering for a child having got his eye gouged out.
Propaganda is wild.
Truth. They also ignore the fact that a)The other kids were the instigators who attacked him and he only defended himself and b)That he had Joffrey in his hand about to hit him with a rock, but dropped it instead and showed mercy(with Luke drawing his dagger right after).
I think the Greens will be more likable during Rhaenyra’s reign (Female Maegor). Corlys joins the Greens due to Rhaenyra’s growing madness.
she wishes she was maegor. at least he got shit done and left an actual legacy
@@femalegays Yeah. The Faith Militants were weird fanatics who started a war because one Targaryen Family continued the tradition of incest. At least the faith militant were toned down by the book High Sparrow who punished Cersei for her sins.
Then he poisoned Aegon and put Rhaenyra son on the throne
corlys has never been honest about winning the throne for his wife...he wants it because it elevates his house, and by proxy, himself... it's all about his own ambition. i never believe for a second whenever he kept bringing it up lol
Great video and exactly my thoughts. What I liked about the book was the sense you got that neither side was exactly great rulers and you could see why people chose one or the other and that ultimately no one really won and it was the smallfolk that had to suffered due to the hubris of Targaryens and their ambitions and entitlements. However, the show strips all of that for a more cliche good guy vs bad guy story
You didn't watch the show properly or read the Book properly. The greens are absolutly hatefull in the Books. They are more grey here and overall the characters are more complexe and grey
@@romainchambard4399
"You didn't watch the show properly or read the Book properly."
Actually, the mass sympathy for the blacks says much about people in general. The show clearly does depict the greens - most of all Alicent - as relatable characters, yet in a way that will never really resonate with the broader audience.
After all, most of the greens are in a position of less direct power and influence then their counterparts, due to their second rate standing with king Viserys, making them more 'on edge', more frustrated and less sympathetic. The blacks clearly feel more at ease at expressing themselves and their desires due to their privileged positions at court.
People reason from a contemporary POV: the characters who express their individuality are more recognizable to us. Hence we sympathize with them more. Characters who are adversed to them and simultaneously tend to fall in line with strange medieval customs, are immediately recognized as the "antagonists". It's our basic instinct.
Next to that, Rhaenyra is generally presented as the main protagonist. Hence we root for her by default. Daemon p.e. is the same character in the beginning of the show as at the end of the season, yet in the first couple of episodes, people view him as "this treat" because he stands in the way of Rhaenyra. Then, once the closeness of their relationship starts sinking in, he gets to be the "badass anti-hero".
People tend to follow those basic instincts.
I really hope that the opener to season 2 fucks viewers up. That it makes them question their pov again. If so, then this will become one of the most brilliant series ever.
But if they play it 'safe', then they'll end up as a forgettable bland mess like GOT.
Rhaenys did want to advocate for Baelas claim and she was about to until Viserys walked in. She knew he wouldn’t accept nothing less than Luke being named heir. You can see the gears turning when Viserys is announced by his KG.
No the show ain't biased, it's just that the Blacks' stans refuse to see things in the Greens' perspective.
You come to this conclusion solely on observing the Black fandom rather than watching the show.
I mean I'm a Black fan when I read the book, but it's the show that make me Green.
Finally someone said it 💚👑. I love king Aegon and how he fights for his birthright and revenge of his son
I agree the show is biased toward Rhaenyra but I was on her side in the books as well. Viserys named her his heir. Her husband & his parents are on her side in the books. & like the show Rhaenyra doesn’t strike the 1st blow & doesn’t want all Alicent’s kids dead she looks for Aegon’s surviving son & is sad about Heleana her “sweet sister” & half the realm sided with her regardless of how her sons look so her claim is just as strong as Aegon. & I believe her & Jace would be better rulers than Aegon & Aemond.
The show also humanizes Alicent when she’s young she’s shown to be sweet & caring & just listening to her father. She’s even in favor of Rhaenyra being queen & they show her not wanting Rhaenyra & Daemon dead & appealing to Rhaenyra from their friendship & at the dinner asking her to come back. So the show definitely shows Alicent in a more positive light than the books but yea they hyped her abused & poor parenting & I do think the maesters would leave that out given their allegiance to house Hightower
But most of what you've just said proves the bias that I'm talking about. Rhaenyra's character is whitewashed to make her more empathetic to the audience, and her more troubling characteristics are almost erased entirely from the story. Alicent is also empathetic to a degree, I'll admit that, but the difference is that with her the show doesn't remove any of her flaws. She is as wicked as she was in the book, but it is just presented in a different light. On the show, we see that Alicent was mostly being manipulated by her father, but still she is presented as a wicked character - in some ways, she is more evil than she was in the book.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 and in other ways she’s more sympathetic than the book. In the book she was in on the scheme to crown Aegon from the jump. But in the show she wasn’t. Seems like they whitewashed everyone except Aegon & I was looking forward to the green council meeting but I hate they cut it short.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 I would add that, as far Rhaenyra's characterization in the show goes, there's still time for her to become the ruthless person she is the book, especially after the deaths of her children considering that's what hardens her the most. You say the show is biased towards the blacks, but that doesn't mean it'll stay that way, it's only the first season. Even if she started off the first season a lot more whitewashed than we would've liked, there's no way she'll stay that way for the rest of the show. I still have hope that at some point she'll say that line from the book, "Tell my half brother that I will have my throne or I will have his head" lol
interestingly enough I still like the greens more, even if they try so hard to make Rhaenyra likable, funny enought I thing Ill like Rhaenyra more if they would make her more relatable and realistic like in the books.
The Ryhaenyra and Daemon shipping is another way they try to make us team black. They're portrayed as star crossed lovers/soul mates, who, had they only been aloud to marry from start, none of this would have happened. Never mind the fact that it's a toxic, abusive relationship, that helps tear the Kingdom apart. "They're so in love, like Romeo and Juliet, don't you know." Their shippers are worse than the Reylo's were. Notice how there's no great love story on the green side.
This was a great video. I like how you analyzed both sides and showed how the bias of the show applies to both sides - in favour of the Black faction, but in opposition to the Green faction. The show needs to do better. However, I think that in the future (in s2), the showrunners are hoping to focus more on the Green faction and to present them a lot more positively, but again we’ll see. I know that they are also hoping to change events like the Battle of Rook’s Rest so that Rhaenyra appears more like a girl-boss than she did in the book. We’ll see how that works out when the episode airs. But for now, I empathize with your concerns. This video was very insightful and refreshing, and I hope that your channel gets bigger and better. We need some more channels in support of team green.
I agree with you: we need more channels in support of the Green faction - or at least channels that make arguments which showcase their perspective. I’m still working on more videos like that (lol) 😆 However, I would also recommend the channel ‘Hill’s Alive’ because she can also give some refreshing insights about the Green faction, and she partly inspired me to start this channel. Anyway, thank you for watching the video and I hope you stay tuned for more content ❤💯
More of a girl-boss, huh? Only so many things from the book can be hand waved away as propaganda or false but one thing that is just a fact is that Rhaenyra did not really participate in dragon battles. I'm also dubious about them being more favorable to the Greens in s2 and even if they were how would they make that happen when they've already done the damage and firmly set the audience against them?
Why does it bother you that people support the blacks but you have no issue with people who support the greens? It's a little hypocritical. People will like whatever character they like. You don't need everyone to agree with what you think/feel
@@rosita3528 It doesn't bother me lol. You can support whoever you like. I'm just saying that the show is obviously bias. What bothers me is that the Greens are actively being demonized in order to make the Blacks look better. Why? Why not just show the good and bad of both sides?
@@thecriticalmaester9702why not just show the good and bad of both sides???
COZ what the show tells us is maybe what truly happened and the books' facts maybe were distorted on account of the third person rumors.
U dont question the facts of the show when GRRM, the author himself is the showrunner.
He shows. We watch.
My biggest concern with it, is that most Civil War stories are supposed to be messy, personal, and tragic. Having Rhaenyra as "the main character" and the Blacks as their "primary faction" at her side makes it seem the audience is being told to empathize with them more than the Greens.
And yeah, they give Rhaenyra's flaws to Daemon where they can, and making Alicent younger than her book counterpart gives most of her actions over to Otto (so far, she still keeps some autonomy, but we've only seen Season 1 so far)
That said.... I wonder: If we asked the Book readers before the show came out for their opinion regarding the situation, I wonder what Poll percentages would look like.
Also, interesting how they've done so much to Rhaenys. Much of what Rhaenys in the show doesn't make sense. As for Aemond, I feel he's also been unfairly judged for the circumstance he was in, regarding his eye especially.
How exactly Rhaneys doesn't makes sense? She is woman who was suppose to be heir, but was rejected by lords, so she accapted her status as lady-wife. And then she watched her cousin-once-removed becoming heiress, so she is both bitter and realistic of this: she says to Rhaneyra people will expect her half-brother to be heir, and that is true. You can see she might envy Crown Princess, but even if so - she is also right about realm favouring Rhaneyra's brother. She also thinks that Rhaneyra's husband (whoever he will be) and their children will be at risk after Visery's death (which also becomes true). In episode 9 Rhaneys is impressed all thing Alicent did to usurp throne, yet she remarks that irony is Alicent could seized throne if she wanted, but she never wil because she knows only how to serve men (which is true). Finally in episode 10 Rhaneys sees Rhaneyra as promisisng ruler and she also sees that Velaryons are bonded with Rhaneyra wheter they want it or not, through their grandchildren (both biological and legal). So she convince Corlys to sides with Rhaneyra I don't see where what she says "doesn't make sense".
The problem with taking flaws away from Rhaenyra is it makes her far less interesting and Daemon more interesting altogether. The best written characters are always the ones written with flaws that you can emphasize with.
The Queen who never was is more an admission that she should have been queen rather than an insult
In the book, Alicent wanted Aegon on the throne and conspired to do so, even letting Viserys body rot for a week, yet in the show, it’s all blamed on Otto and the other Lords. Ser Criston kills Beesbury in the book, in the show it’s an accident? Aemond kills Luke in the book and in the show it’s an accident?
The books aren't 100% true to history. How do we know Aemond was really told off by Lord Borros' daughter? Just saying, killing Luke on purpose would be stupid. The show has a better take on it.
Also, the body wasn't allowed to rot for a week in the show, so regardless of it being either Alicent or Otto, that situation no longer matters much
@@thalmoragent9344 so details in the books don’t matter much when it comes to the greens but it does for the blacks? Okay got it lol
EXACTLY 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
@@marleymarsss ??? The person never said that the details in the book apply to the blacks, but not the greens. That is something you just made up in your own head.
@@danika9411 They did tho, they implied that things were changed about the blacks to make them sympathetic for the show, I don’t agree, in fact they changed things about the greens to make them more sympathetic. I literally just reread the book last week.
I think a lot of the bias thowards the Blacks is because in the end, it is Rhaenyra's bloodline that ultimately wins this war. That despite all the struggle and death of her first children, it is her son Aegon III that will take the throne after Rhaenyra dies and Aegon II takes the throne for a while.
Both sides have very villainous qualities and see themselves as the heroes in their story. As with Targaryen culture and tradition, there has always been the wheel of relatives killing and fighting one another for the throne and thus is the point of the Dance according to George RR Martin: That war is costly and pointless.
To conclude, the Dance of the Dragons is a story about villains and heroes on both sides according to their own perspectives but the only reason this is Rhenyra's story and paints the Blacks in a biased light is because this war starts with her and ends with her children.
I don't remember how I perceived Aegon in the book but I remember hating Alicent, show and especially the actress did a great job humanizing her and making her even deserving of some sympathy for having to endure her father's manipulations and aging Viserys
Very good and thoughtful video and great voice, subscribed!
aegon was a lot better in the book, in the book he was seen as creepy by those close to him but the public loved him
in the show they needed to give people a reason to hate the greens so they made him a serial r@pist child trafficker kingpin
You definitely make some good points I didn’t consider. I need to re read Fire and Blood for sure but I do think they will(or at least hope) start to show Raenyra’s evil side take over. I think they are going to use Luc’s death as the thing that pushes her to the dark side. I think in the book people didn’t really start to turn against her until they took Kings Landing. I don’t really see how they can make her actions after that happens look good on the show.
I just hope the show doesnt handwave everything she does later like ordering the death of nettles or arresting addam of hull.
im honestly worried that when blood and cheese happens, the show will make it look like some kind of oopsie on the reds part
I just find the Black Team characters quite boring, what to me makes the Greens interesting is the fact that they have flaws which is entirely normal for people. I actually think it makes them more human. The children on the Green side for example have not had much guidance from their father at all, who appears to completely dote on Rhaenyrs. I do agree there is an imbalance between the two sides, which needs redressing on series two. I just hope they don't water down the B & C incident, that is one way they can put more flaws onto Team Black.
They most certainly are biased towards Rhaenyra. They really toned her evils down and Daemons in the show versus the books.
I’m not saying the greens are innocent little angels but they did them dirty. Aegon was a lecher and drunk but he wasn’t a full on rapist. They made him more evil on purpose. I think they favor Rhaenyra because of Daenerys and modern society feminism girlpower
I think that's exactly right.
I agreed, i don't excuse Aegons actions but i think the showrunners introducing him for the first time time a drunk rapist was made with the purpose of him being disliked so people believe that being on the green side means you support that, what he did its wrong but i do think first introductions matters because thats how the audience will perceive them, Daemon hows done a lot of things wrong yet the audience seeing as this cool character.
The writers might be writing themselves out of another Mad Targaryen Queen plot as we’ve seen the reception that had last time. Though, from what I gather, that plot might be more opportune now than last time.
Great video! I was mostly neutral when I read the book though I tended to like most black characters better, as the show progressed I slowly favored the greens more and more just bc how annoyed I was by the the whitewashed version of the blacks and how their fans would love to paint them as the clear perfect heroes and would dismiss anyone that rooted for a bit more of complexity. I don't think the show runners are aware of their own bias: if you read their analysis and interviews they explain in depth the details of the complex situation that many of the green characters are in and how it affects them psychologically. However, as much as they may hold this more complex idea of their characters, the way they frame their actions, the screen time they allow for each team etc CLEARLY does not work in favor of showing these ideas... So yea.. I am scared for how they will frame... certain events... in season 2.
You and me both.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 me as well. most black rhaenerya fans I've come across are too headstrong and believe she is all good and deserves the throne and that she does nothing wrong.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 i also hated how they ruined Ser Criston Cole's character.
Can you talk about aemond losing an eye situation from both books and show?
I got you!!! 😉
drives me crazy when people defend rhaenyra wanting to torture her little brother after her hellspawn cut his eye out
I never saw the show as being biased until I saw fan reactions. I was neutral with the book, and I'm pretty much team Green after the show. Although i think the point of the show is for the audience to stay as neutral as possible since this takes place in a society much different than our own and adhere to their own set of laws and customs. It's kind of hard to do that when the morally right *in terms of medival times and honestly, even modern times lol* is the Green faction. And while portraying Alicent as an abusive parent is true, it's also portraying the very traumatizing effects of a girl forced into motherhood at a young age. Basically groomed by her own father to birth a king. She was sexually exploited and unprepared to be a mother and had to suck it up because this was "normal" during those times. Alicent had no say in which her life would lead, despite being part of an elite society. Not just because of her gender but also in part of her father's position as a second son. This is a stark contrast to Rhaenyra, who could basically do whatever she wanted in comparison to other women in this society. Her reputation would be ruined, yesh, but she would still hold more power than other women and even lower status men *cough* cole *cough* could ever dream of simply because of her Targaryan bloodline. So, for me, the show was portraying the very big difference in which class played a role in society. How much difference it made depending on if you were lowly born, a second son of a noble family, a queen, or royalty. And how feudalism was an extremely flawed and violent way of ruling. I think i may have some biases of my own in regards to the blacks because i just can't stand how much black stans are defending them. ESPECIALLY Daemon. Rhaenyra is also guilty of questionable things, though not as blatant as in the books. It's enough for people to realize that Rhaenyra isn't a hero in this story. I think people take everything at face value and lack critical thinking skills. Or opt the easy way out and refuse to see the other side of this extremely complicated issue that can't be solved by pointing fingers and shouting, "Evil!" That's not how George RR Martin wants asoiaf to be portrayed.
The precedent was already set before Viserys named his daughter the heiress to the throne. It was agreed upon that the throne will not be inherited by a woman nor pass through a woman's line. It was Viserys vs Laenor not Rhaenys, with that, it is clear that women are excluded in the line of succesion in the presence of a male heir. Viserys is hypocrite because he thinks that he can just change things and get away with it. He break the very precedent that made him King in favor of his daughter. He said, "Even I do not exist above duty and tradition", so why name a Princess as heir? He knew that the realm will not accept a reigning Queen that's why he is so desperate for a male heir to the point that he lost his wife. Viserys is the root of the civil war. It's sad that the Greens are blaimed for all the problems they inherited from Viserys' reign.
um the greens could have literally just accepted rhaenyra as queen and move on the greens are blamed because the entire war could have been avoided if one of the sides yielded while rhaenyra isn't innocent by any means neither are the greens they are just as much to blame
@@andriusas90 both sides couldn't yield. I think the show doesn't show it enough how the other side was in danger if they weren't the winners.
@@andriusas90 the Hightowers are not the only noble house in the realm. Most of the noble houses are sexist that's why when the great council was called the majority choose Viserys instead of Laenor. They don't believe that the crown should pass through the female line, how much more being inherited by a woman. Jaeherys knew it, that's why he decided to name Viserys' father as Prince of Dragonstone instead of Rhaenys, the only daughter of then heir, even though he had absolute authority he knew that once he pass away the realm will not accept a reigning Queen.
I hope this changes in the next seasons. Rhaenyra should be portrayed as what she actually is: An imcompetent leader who is flawed. I mean, the entire point of the books is to show that war is in most cases pointless. The story ends with Rhaenyras son on the throne and with the almost extinction of the dragon. This resulted in so much more instability and the realm could not prosper.
It would be hard when the first season was made like that, her being presented as this flawless character who can't do wrong, the audience will excuse any action she does in season 2 because they would feel its justificated
i've honestly thought the bias is for the bigger shock value of the future events, but now i am in doubt as it seems really likely they'll change some critical events
Before watching: (reads title and sees it was uploaded by a Maester)
Me: 🤨🤔
😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I may be more inclined to support Rhaenyra's claim but yes the Greens deserve more credit too. While in the modern lens, Rhaenyra would be a clear choice, the society of Westeros would be more likely to support Aegon 2, not to mention him being a complex figure as both a sexual predator and a reluctant heir at once. And yes, Daemon is cool but he would be a Maegor 2.0 if he really wanted the Crown. Rhaenyra wouldn't need Syrax to be a huge gaslighter.
I think it all boils down to how TV shows often have the need to create one faction as the "good guys" in the show instead of having all sides be morally gray. So that the viewers can have an easy choice choice. After all, people love rooting for the underdogs.
It's why people relate so much with the Starks in the original series even if the Starks are just as capable of being reckless, violent, and even disastrous as the Lannisters and Targaryens (Btw, I personally root for the Lannisters coz they are much more compelling as characters and the House proves they are capable of ruling even without the supernatural elements of this world. Meanwhile, Targaryens are nothing without dragons, while the Starks are boring af.)
Definitely. If anything, the scene Aemond loses his eye exemplifies how Viserys and Rhaenyra will always be able to hurt Alicent's sons and get away with it, that's why Aegon only takes power to protect his family, and why would he do it, If he didn't have reasons to believe they were in danger in the first place? Because is clear that while Rhaenyra is on power, she and her sons can always abuse the greens and get away with it, she already showed she is not above torturing a 10 year old Aemond for saying something she didn't like, so what guarantees they would ever be safe under her rule? But this fact is downplayed and the Greens are simply put as greedy and villainous.
Becuase Greens are greedy and villainus. If Alicent taught her sons respect for their nephews thsi whole nigjht wouldn't happened, Ameond wouldn't lose his eye and Rhaneyra wouldn't demanded Aemond being "sharply question". Now, Rhaenyra suggestion was no doubt cruel but she acted quickly and she was in mood "protect my onw children". Aegon took power because he is pawn in his family hands, and because he wasn't able to escape Aemond. Greens took pwer solely because of their misogyny. Rhaenyra wouldn't hurt any of Greens if they didn't give her a cuse - which they constantly do.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 "They're disrespectful, I'm gonna maim and torture and possibly kill them"
Yeah, totally reasonable
Counterpoint, no
@@InitialPC It's not. But wheter Rhaenyra is good person or not is not the point. Point is - she is rightfull heir. And Greens didn't wan to usurp her because she is nbad person or bad ruler - the only reason they do is because of her gender. Also, Rhaneyra demanded Aemond to be "sharply questioned" but never rushed to question him. People say in anger many things. But she ultimately never acted upon. Alicent actually went after Luke with dagger.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Bro, by the rules of the realm, Rhaenyra clearly ISN’T the rightful heir. That’s the whole point of the show. She is trying to usurp the throne and change the rules due to circumstances allowing for it (Viserys becoming cold towards Alicent and his sons from her).
Viserys himself would never have been King if women were included in the line of inheritance. He only became King because he was a male, whereas his competitor for the throne was a female, even though she had a better claim to it by blood.
Rhaenyra is an entitled child who wants to ignore the rules favoring male heirs over female ones, while also ignoring the fact that this rule is the only reason she even has a claim to the Iron Throne in the first place. This conflict is what makes the entire show interesting, and I hate how so many people are ignoring that just because they like Rhaenyra.
Rhaenyra is supposed to be a flawed and selfish character. She is why this whole mess starts, from her irresponsible handling of her marriage and her birthing of obvious bastard children, to her treatment of Alicent and her father in his grief, to her cruelty to Alicent’s children, etc.
The Greens, hate them or love them, are merely attempting to do exactly what Rhaenyra is: secure the Iron Throne. Aemond and Aegon both have legitimate claims to it and their claims are stronger than Rhaenyra’s based on the rules that made Viserys the King. They see Rhaenyra trying to pull the rug out from beneath them and take what they have, so of course they’re going to fight back. And they obviously aren’t going to be kind about it when Rhaenyra treats them so coldly from the get-go merely for being born and ruining her plans.
Look at things from each character’s perspective and you’ll begin to understand things in a more complete way.
The Greens lied to Aegon and tricked him into getting onto the throne even though he didn't want it. They want the throne for themselves. The Greens aren't Targs and Rhaenyra was heir to the the throne they just felt that she was not worthy of the throne. Otto is the one who made sure that Rhaenyra became the heir and as soon as he had a grandson who uses him to get the throne.
I'll wait for Season 2 on that one. I think they're trying to get people to cheer on people they're going to wind up showing as monsters. There will be some definite back and forth on that.
Exactly what reaction they have to Blood and Cheese will be interesting to watch. Will they recant on their support for Rhaenyra? Unlikely. Will they double down and be fine with killing kids? Not sure. Then again, the show might make it a horrible misunderstanding again, or have Daemon being the mastermind behind it, removing Rhaenyra's agency and thus keeping her untainted.
@prethorynscourge7889 exactly... it could go so many ways but to me it'll define whether the show really does have a bias
I hope you are right about that, they have a chance to do that with the Blood and Cheese incident, so let's see if they do.
We live in a society of black and white. Where most successful movies have a clear villain and a clear hero. And for the sake of political correctness the leading female character should be likable and basically have nearly no flaws. They can't do evil and if they do it's because someone forced their hands or it's some unique wisdom that nobody understands. The problem is they're falling into the show Daenerys trap again. Because eventually Rhaeneyra will have to make ruthless and immoral choices. It's even worse because at least with show Dany there's places where she makes questionable choices. There will come a point where they cannot cover her flaws since she will have to make immoral and ruthless choices. But without any build up, it will seem to come out of nowhere and make her look crazy for no reason. The green team were simplified into cartoon villains. But I believe it's being influenced by the culture which wants clear labels for good and evil for a film to be successful. Hopefully they'll shift gears in season 2 and make the story more nuanced and the character comlex
I'm not sure any "narrative punishment" is necessary for Daemon yet especially since it would deviate from the book (he never gets into trouble for murdering anyone), but the idea that the show doesn't dwell on the bad stuff he does is interesting.
The show runners clearly look as the blacks as the good side the best characters. They hid all of Rhaenyras bad characters. Deamon was way worse in the books. Hell Viserys was worse in the books. In the books they were all flawed characters that did horrible things for power and revenge both green and black side
The bias might be to make a bigger shock for people who have not read the book in season 2 (Blood&Cheese). To me, the bias was not that bad, I actually felt for Alicent more. However, I think that the main point of the series will be that neither will have redemption and both do bad things and the common people will not care who wins in the end, just that the craziness stops. A perfect example of the madness Targaryens can get up to and make you consider if their rule is/was good for the Realm and make you ponder about Dany in relation to that.
Also, since the Dance of Dragons is basically the Time When Christ and his Saints Slept aka the English civil war between Matilda and Stephen, there is no right or wrong side, just a lot of horrible stuff happening for years. In Matilda’s case, the light at the end of the tunnel was Henry II, in the show’s case it’s the continuance of adhering to the prophesy of the Prince that was Promised.
Yeah, I hope you're right. It's just that there isn't much evidence of that for me (of neutrality in the story; of there not being any clear bad guys and good guys), so I highly doubt it. I read the other day that they are changing Rhaenyra's role in the story, so that she is present during the Battle of Rook's Rest and so that she can have more boss moments on her dragon. So... 🤦♂
@@thecriticalmaester9702In that case, yeah, it sadly has gotten influenced by the current politics. I’ve not followed the rumours, interviews, etc. Well, the fact that they tied the prophesy to Rhaenyra was a clear sign but still, I’ve kept up hope. :) Come to think of it, since Otto (right?!) had the White Worm’s house/establishment burned down, it could be that they’ll make Blood and Cheese more of her revenge and will keep Daemon mostly out of it…maybe just a small comment that Mysaria will use for her own revenge or smth. Oh, why do current affairs have to come to mess with a good story already written!
This is what I have always been saying, the show is extremely biased to the blacks specifically to Rhaenyra mostly do to modern politics.
Honestly. I get it why the show did what they did as to theres a definite good vs evil.
But i always want the "i do what i do for my house" if that make sense
That's my whole point, fam. The battle of good and evil should be fought within the character's heart. 💯
Ur page is gonna blow up in some few months. Be consistent
I remember reading that the direction of this show wasn’t suppose to be like the book - in the sense that it’s accounted by the Maesters. They’re trying to plug in “what could have possibly been truth” verse here-say. It does seem a little biased. They definitely want us to love the Targaryen’s but I think it’s on purpose to sway us from the truth kinda like the maesters do in general with all this information to begin with.
finally a second part,great job
Thank you 💯
And I would added that this creative decision turned the show in a soap opera. No offense, but the political aspects were used just as a accessory. This approach also attracted fans more interested in family fights.
And they wonder why I'm team green 🐉💚 the blacks honestly feels like they are woke
And nothing is woker than Mushroom's absence.
Theres no way they can villanize Daeron
Never say never 😅
The original series had Stannis murder his own daughter simply because D&D never liked the character despite BookStannis making arrangements for Shireen to be his heir in case he dies in the North.
I have a feeling things will balance out next season. Blood and cheese will not make the blacks look good.
Further, Daemon has not been painted in the best light. He murders one wife and chokes out another. Neither happens in the book.
The book is far harsher toward both Rhaenyra and Allicent. The show gives both more nuance.
And part four of my response:
Epilogue. They made Aemond more sympathetic than in book. So both Alicent and her children in show are complex when, in book they were straghtforward power hungry and bad. They also villinized Daemon. So the only person who was truly white washed was Rhaenyra. But she might change in season 2. So, no, show isn't biased towards Black. They made changes on characters from the both sides.
I agree!
@@Transformers217 Thanks
ok
@@femalegays You wrote second post '"could be said about rhaenyra and daemon, especially”, but I cannot respond to this, since when I am clicking it leads me nowhere. Provide context to which comment you replied.
The Green characters are made more complex but still have all their flaws intact (they're occasionally weak, petty, weird and violent, not to mention how bad Aegon is depicted, without even showing us a single positive side of his character, for example his bond with Sunfyre).
Instead, Black characters are made more complex AND flawless... or at least their flaws are downplayed or glossed over: think about how in the show there is no reaction to the fact that Daemon killed his wife Rhea and groomed Rhaenyra and Laena when they're basically teenager girls, or that Daemon and Rhaenyra killed an innocent man to stage Laenor's death, think about the fact that Rhaenys killed more innocent people than all the other characters combined only for a stupid girlboss move, think about Rhaenyra asking for Aemond's torture in Driftmark in in the successful attempt to gaslight the audience into forgetting Lucerys' crime, which goes beyond normal self-defense and deserves even just a public rebuke, or think about Vaemond being killed for telling the truth, the tipical action of tyrants and dishonorable rulers ... these are ruthless evil actions but which pass almost as insignificant, glossed over... while Aegon as a rapist is underlined by the script with Dyana's terrible scene,with the pathetic masturbation scene and so on.
If you think about it, making the characters more complex but with this type of bias script is a really sneaky way to create a biased show that pretends not to be biased, and it's because of this hidden manipulation of viewers (and the horrible way many Team Black stans behave) that I switched to supporting the Greens
Its not villians vs heroes,according to the books its ambition vs carelessness. The Green's ambition for power and the Black's careless for not properly taking care of the responsibility given to them ended both parties.
Yeah, it's pretty disappointing, i think they just weren't talented enough to write a nuanced story. Which shouldn't have been the case considered they have hundreds of million in their budget. I'm sure a good writer would have done it for free yet they actually paid someone a few millions to write one of the most one sided simple interpretation of the books.
Alicent’s entire plot is so the audience empathizes with her. She is made meek and many times without agency of her own. That is the biggest bias on the show. Book Alicent was brutal. Alicent plotted to install her son in the book, kept Visery body to decay to the point it smelt. In show, it’s all her Dad, she is even shocked that they were plotting behind her back. Ultimately, she is being enslaved by the needs of the men around her. In the book, I believe she is rumored to have poisoned Visery. Aemon went out with the full intention of becoming a Kinslayer but shows it’s a oops.
Lastly, The Queen who never wasn’t an insult in the book. And she never wanted to be a Kinslayer. She fought to blacks too in the book, with the show I agree it appeared to have happened too soon but…
Yes changes were made on the show but I think they are really balancing it out. Please let’s not forget the greens are the villains of the story afterall😅 . Or did I read a different book? Or shouldn’t that be depicted on screen somehow?
Nope. Child Alicent, maybe, but Adult Alicent isn’t painted sympathetically at all, and damn near everyone hates her for it. Meanwhile Rhaenyra gets away with damn near everything and is hardly punished for it.
Aegon is literally a rapist: no consequence
Ser cole: commits murder TWICE, he gets a promotion
Rhaenyra had sex out of wedlock
These are not all the same friend
@@eatatmoes86 This is true.
For one of those decisions nearly ended a Dynasty.
@@SukhoniusAegon the 4th had sex out of wedlock and legitimized all of his bastards on his deathbed and that almost ended the dynasty too🤷🏻♂️
@@circi444 Indeed. However, one was only possible because of the other. Though I never did think about comparing Rhae with Aegon IV 😂
I will say it how it is: The lizard people deserved to be wiped out. If the Hightowers had any role to play in it, they have my support.
Stop using Baela in those arguments!!!!! Baela has NO claim and has NO interest in rule. She is Targaryen, not Velaryon. It is OBVIOUS that her claim is after all other Velaryons and even if not - Baela herself never expressed any desire to power. Rhaneys wanted gave Driftmark to Baela when Baela was little girl. But now Baela is young adult and NOTHING suggest she would want be ruler there instead of Lucerys. Rhaneys isn't hypocrite at all. I really, really hate that people try makes Team Black bad guys by saying "They don't support Baela claim!", "Rhaneyra is misogynistic because she wants her sons to succed instead of her stepdaughter!". People, CALM DOWN. Show me one moment in book or show where Beala says she should be heiress of Driftmark or heiress to Iron throne. Oh, there isn't any? So I thought. So stop being offended in her name, when she herself isn't offended and fully supports Rhaenyra.
I completely agree that the show is biased against the Greens. The real question is: Should it be? The Targaryens have an absolute monarchy. In other words, the ruler is a law onto him/herself. This means that if he/she named their pet hamster heir to the Iron Throne, then the pet hamster would be the rightful heir despite any legal precedents to the contrary. Since Viserys publicly acknowledged Rhaynera as his heir and never publicly retracted, then Rhaynera is the rightful heir by Royal Decree and the Greens have no legal basis for the war they are fighting. So circling back, is the show bias against the Greens? Absolutely. But is it correct in being bias? 100%. Because the Blacks have the indisputably stronger claim to the throne, and the war they started out of mere greed turned their dynasty from the uncontested greatest military power in the world, to just another house whose head happens to rest his ass on an uncomfortable iron chair. So they deserve to get portrayed as a bunch of greedy, petty, backstabbing assholes.
This is not ancient Rome, the ruler also has obligations to his lords, Rhaenyra cannot demand loyalty from them and at the same time pass off her bastard as a legitimate prince this is a crime and both Lord Strong and Rhaenyra herself understood this, because she viciously demanded interrogation for Aеmond. And it doesn't matter if her husband recognized them as his children or not, from the point of view of all the lords, they can be anyone's children at all, but not Laenor's, so she has no rights to the throne for a long time
It’s why I find Rhaenyra to be such a boring character. She has very little complexity.
Always team Green
Oh I hate the scene with the white deer. But I don't think making Rhaenyra more peaceful is a problem, i think they could make it work if they also made it clear Daemon can't be controlled and he didn't respect her, which makes the greens (especially Alicent) reasons to fear her accent even more. It could be an interesting angle
What's the song at the beginning?
You are not worth it
Knowing the rest of the story, I think they might have tried to make the Rhaenyra more good just to make her go downhill later on.
The show made Alicent less evil
The Greens were awful in the books too
Both factions are awful, that's the point
@@Takahashi_Takeda I agree, but the point of this video was to point out how the Greens are somehow misunderstood lol and that’s far from the truth as a book reader.
@@marleymarsss in the show they are definitely misrepresented and their bad acts are exaggerated and good acts almost non existence
@@Naldinho456 what exactly was exaggerated? Lol I’ve read the books, I honestly feel like the changes they made to Alicent made her more sympathetic
@@marleymarsss allicent being an awful mother
Love that the video that at least gave light to show's bias towards Rhaenyra, so you have my like. However almost all else you yourself show your bias towards the green faction.
1. You start well by balancing the show adaptation and the book description and many sources, be it Gyldayn, Septon Eustace and Mushroom. You compare all 4 sources and summarise the cuts made to her character so the viewers find her more appealing. Though, you yourself uses this to propose your own bias as if that makes the entirety of the members of the Black Faction as being "not vilified" as the Greens. When they are clearly vilified in favour of a preferred message that the showrunners want viewers to have.
2. As you correctly use the books and the show in a comparison, you fail to use it for Daemon, Corlys and Rhaenys. By doing that you just butchered your own analysis of the first point of the bias in favour of Rhaenyra. You make clearly your stance on them as the Show "House of the Dragon" of HBO want's us to see them. While you never mention in their extracts what the books tells about them. Otherwise you would have noted the clear bias the show have *against* them.
2.1 Daemon .- He in the show is a wife killer, groomer, as you clearly put a *murderer*, power hungry, blood thirsty, lusty and a warmonger. However you forget the first and most obvious difference in the books. That Daemon is fighting on the Stepstones in the most ardent phase of the war when Rhea Royce suffers an accident while hunting. She is bedridden for 9 DAYS until she finally dies and Daemon is only informed after her passing. In the books, none of the 3 sources be it the maesters side with Gyldayn, or the faith with Eustace or the fool of the Blacks "Mushroom" rise any suspicion towards Daemon who only after Rhea's demise and the battle cooled down, he flews towards the Vale hastily to ask for his "inheritance" as the husband of the heir. Thus showing that he is still the ambitious and lack of shame he always had. Another thing is him asking for caution in the Black Council after Viserys death and Aegon "coronation", because they ask him as a commander of a thousand battles his assessment for the war. Daemon makes clear his stance of dragon fighting telling about his experience of their ineffectiveness when dealing with cunning rivals that goes on guerrilla like Dorne or the pirates and the dragons vulnerability towards each other. He by contrast to the show is the one to propose for the "Raven War" as implying that the war is as much as won if they had the allegiance of more lords than the greens, that will eventually lead to Lucerys death at hands of Aemond. Yes, Daemon is a murderer, groomer, ambitious and lustful, but not as the show put it on but at a cunning and more lighter way in some regards and darker in others. All in all Daemon is described perfectly in the books "Prince Daemon was both. In his day there was not a man so admired, so beloved, and so reviled in all Westeros. He was made of light and darkness in equal parts."
Show! Daemon is the more vilified character and it is only with Matt Smith charisma that the audience is able to enjoy the "Wonder and Terror of his Age" as the books describe him. His relationship with Laena that in the books portrayed them as a power couple much like Alyssa and Baelon is butchered for the image of a neglectful husband, father and obsessed lover to Rhaenyra.
2.2 Corlys.- He certainly is ambitious and an overachiever. His moniker "the Seasnake" was not given to him because of his sigil or because he had a snake but for his prowess over a 9 voyages around Planetos in his Flagship Seasnake. That is just the beginning of his tale and from a very young age his ambition led him to built the fearsome and wealthy reputation of his House in a single lifetime. Him and not Vaemon, just make clear. While Corlys was in the end suspected to have been unfaithful to Rhaenys, since the very beginning of the succession crisis with Jaehaerys he was devoted to her and her claim. He ran for her to be Queen with her own right to rule and later for Laenor's birthright, while him to be the consort. Giving that Corlys never brought his supposed bastard children to High Tide and his commitment to confront the crown on behalf of Rhaenys tells us that respected, feared and devoted to her in equal measure. However this dedication turn obsession lead him to commit his children to position they weren't comfortable like to betrothed Laena with Viserys and the same with Laenor to Rhaenyra. While Laena was able to elope later with Daemon and disentangle from his father schemes, Laenor had to live a life without fulfilment and the mockery of the Greens in court. Laena's death comes in the show, because Daemon got her pregnant despite lack of enthusiasm and consideration towards her, while in the books the couple was enamoured and Laena wanted to give a son to Daemon as Alyssa wanted to give 20 sons to Baelon. While Laenor escapades with Joffrey and later with Qarl led him to an early grave. You also overlooked the fact that it is "Mushroom" the Black Faction Fool and known for his exaggeration that entertained the idea of Daemon killing Laenor, while Eustace, Gyldayn and didn't gave value to his source. Taking in consideration that the maester and the septon, both educated in Oldtown and within institutions with clearly bias towards the Greens, it speaks by its own how valid "Mushroom" tall tale about that when himself only speculates about it after him and the other sources tells about Qarl being the guilty party. The only major offence that Corlys received from both Rhaenyra and Daemon is about their sudden marriage withing half a year and "the disrespect" to the memory of his children, when Laenor favoured men and Rhaenyra was fond of Laena. The matter of Vaemond is particular too, Vaemond wanted to be declared heir of Driftmark and all its properties that Corlys himself built upon his own back while Corlys was indisposed. Corlys has many time confirmed the inheritance of the Strong Boys and despite them not having their blood, it doesn't mean Vaemond is "defending his right" as you put it. If anything Vaemond and the cousins are clearly scheming to take the enormous wealth they have no right to. As the son of a younger son, be it Andals, First Men, Rhoynar or Valyrian they aren't owed a thing but be the spare heir until the heir has heirs of its own. Everything from properties to titles is inherited by a single perosn that is the heir and that was Corlys, so it is only his will that should prevail. Adding that detail that the might of House Velaryon be it the new castle High Tide, the great town of Spicetown and the huge amount of gold and treasures belonged to the House in name thanks to Corlys alone. Vaemond be it in the show as brother or as in the books nephew isn't owed a thing and having the knowledge that Corlys plan for the throne rested on the Strong Boys, by having them disinherited with the help of the Hightowers would mean to destroy his life work just to take what is not his. If not the Strong boys then Baela and Rhaena are the right heirs and not cousins, nephews or brothers. (Personally I think Baela should have been the heir since the Strong Boys already had the Iron Throne as inheritance). Not to dismiss that Corlys plan rested in Jacaerys and by default Lucerys since Laena and Rhaenyra had agreed while she lived to betrothed their children together and not like how it happened in the show. So Corlys blood would still gain the Iron Thron and Dirftwood throne and not only by name.
2.3 Rhaenys.- You say that she is an hypocrite because she is playing in this world made for men. When she is one of the first to have fought for a ruling queen on herself as claimant to the throne. While in the books she have adapted to what reality dealt to her, she is not exactly serving his husband as woman by the Andal code are subservient to their male counterpart desires. Rhaenys being the deterrent of Corlys showing ever any care for the Hull children inside his public domains or asking for her dragon when Daemon and Laenor weren't able just shows that she didn't relent to his husband wishes knowing that in the books her character is eager to put an end to Vhagar and Sunfyre despite the clear disadvantage and easy escape to do with the fastest dragon the Targs had ever only portrays that she did not shied from battle but that she fighted when she wanted and wanted to live her life on her own terms. In the show when she confronts Alicent it is not exactly saying to her that she is servant of men but that Alicent as a woman saw herself tire of serving the men but instead of finding an out for women freedom and empowerement by having a female as the head of all the lords of the Seven Kingdoms, she got used to the statu quo by using Aegon as window towards power instead of using Rhaenyra as an escape. Like she didn't want an out, she wanted to play the game and win. That is why she ends with: "You never imagined yourself upon the Iron Throne" alluding to her ambitions despite how much sorrow it brought her to be puppeteer by her father and the other great lords and their interest. At least that is in the show, in the books she is not in her orbit and simply dismisses her existence as she were not family but an outsider that is to unpleasant to deal with. Surely, Rhaenys fights Corlys and Rhaenyra to have Baela as heir, that's why she has in Baela as a ward in the show and we saw both of them in High Tide attending their court when Vaemond appears, who later plotted to take from her as well as from Rhaenyra their stance in Driftmark by siding with Lannister and Higtowers which from the past and current time were openly hostile to Corlys by pushing eagerly in the Council and Viserys to deny aid for Corlys family to fight pirated when these sunk his ships near Driftmark and the Steptones, they wanted to take Velaryon ships for the standing Royal Fleet and forced Corlys to fund the Royal Fleet despite his practically hereditary position since the conquest was giving to a Lannister thanks to Otto's venue and Viserys appeasement. It was either close ranks or lose it all, in the show. Because in the books, it is Rhaenyra who dispatches Vaemond and his plots. Rhaenys didn't concern herself with other Velaryon that weren't her children or her husband.
3. The Greens.- Well here you were more balanced though you also missinformed in many case alluding that it was Mushrooms claims that slander either Aegon, Cole or the others. Fact is that Mushroom has not much to say about Aegon but the ones that recorded his vices are Septon Eustace and Maester Gyldayn with their accounts over his behaviour and public displays in open festivities. Septon and Maester who have their allegiance to Oldtown heart of the Faith and house to the Citadel. Here the quotes:
"King Viserys wed his son Aegon the Elder to his daughter Helaena. The groom was fifteen years of age, a lazy and somewhat sulky boy, Septon Eustace tells us, but possessed of more than healthy appetites, a glutton at table, given to swilling ale and strongwine and pinching and fondling any serving girl who strayed within his reach. The bride, his sister, was but thirteen."
"A wife and children did little to curb the carnal appetites of Prince Aegon the Elder, who fathered two bastard children the same year as his trueborn twins: a boy on a girl whose maidenhood he bought on the Street of Silk, and a girl by one of his mother’s maidservants."
That not to say the other bastards that were known after the riot like Trystane Truefyre or Gaemon Palehair. He had an habit to put the servants girls upon his unwanted touch and vicinity. The thing is just to make visual such thing in the great display makes matters feel more oer the audience than when it is read on a book.
Another thing about Cole, that certainly isn't accounted by mushroom who regalled us about Daemon being the groomer for Rhaenyra to seduce Cole, while Septon Eustace tells us in the next quote that Cole was in your words a simp.
"That night, Septon Eustace reports, Ser Criston Cole slipped into the princess’s bedchamber to confess his love for her."
"Mushroom tells a very different tale. In his version, it was Princess Rhaenyra who went to Ser Criston, not him to her."
As far as quotes go, in the books the Black apologist Mushroom seems more eager to tell about the Blacks supposed Debaucherys as much as their prowess while Eustace and Gyldayn are less enthusiastic in their bias and gives at least more validity to their claims with the serenity of their accounts.
Well, as far as the show goes it seems that they wants as to see two girls thrusted into enmity and war by criminals and horrible men around them. Rhaenyra pressured by her families legacy and Alicent pressured by her father's and the "great" lords schemes. So just by that you have my like and appreciation on your attempt of analysis. Kudos
Okay, this was a lot to read, but I will try to answer you as best as I can.
Firstly, I agree with you that there are times on the show that the Black characters (that is 'the characters of Rhaenyra's Black faction') are a bit more villainized than they are in the book. I agree with you that Daemon was perhaps adapted to be a lot more villainous and crafty than he probably was if we take into account the sources of Fire and Blood, and I agree that the same could be said of Corlys. The show does try to paint these characters in darker shades than they most probably were in the books. However, that was not the point that I was trying to make when I compared them to the Green characters. In the video, my point was to show how House of the Dragon downplays the villainous traits of the Black characters. Yes, Daemon can be a monster, and yes, Corlys can be a little shady - but for the most part the show just brushes these things aside. These characters are never criticized or confronted for any of their terrible deeds, and that's the difference between the way that the show approaches the Black characters and the Greens. When Otto Hightower does something bad, everybody brings it up, and Otto even gets fired for his shady ways. The same could be said for most of the Green team. Every character on the show knows how slimy and terrible they are, and so we, as the audience, also know it. The show *dwells on the bad traits of the Green characters, and it omits their good and redeemable traits*. On the other hand, the Black characters get the opposite treatment. The show *dwells on their good and redeemable traits and it omits (or downplays) their bad ones*. It's absolutely biased and terribly one-sided.
Secondly, I do not agree with you on the fact that Vaemond has no rights to the Driftmark throne. Just because Vaemond didn't help build the wealth and repute of Driftmark, it doesn't mean that he isn't entitled to those lands by birthright. If you insist on using that logic then you must be careful, because then it can be applied to almost every lord's rights in Westeros. For example, the whole reason why Ned Stark becomes lord of Winterfell in the first place is because his brother dies. Because Ned was his closest male kin, he automatically has the strongest claim to Winterfell and to the lordship of the North. If Ned's brother (Brandon) had bastard children, their claims would not be stronger than Ned's, just like how Jon's claim would never be stronger than Bran's or even Sansa's, or how Joffrey's claim isn't stronger than Stannis's claim. In the main 'A Song of Ice and Fire' series, it's actually Stannis who is the rightful king of Westeros, not Joffrey or Tommen or Myrcella. Stannis's claim is actually the strongest one because he is Robert's eldest male descendant. It's the same thing for Vaemond. He absolutely has a claim to the Driftwood throne, particularly because Rhaenyra's children are bastards. Even Corlys's opinion doesn't trump that fact, much in the same way that Aegon IV's opinion didn't trump Daeron's claim over his half-brother's. You could make a case for Luke, but it would be a weak one, particularly because it is obvious that he is a bastard and bastard have no claim over trueborn persons. So Vaemond is absolutely in the right to demand that Driftmark be given to him. However, I agree with you, again, when you say that Laena's children (Baela and Rhaena) actually deserve it more than him. That is correct.
Thirdly, I will make more videos in the future where I will be a little more fair in my analysis of some of the Black characters. I will talk about how characters like Daemon and Corlys are villainized in a lot more depth and detail than I have on this video. The thing is, on this video I could only talk about so much stuff. I didn't want it to go on and on forever. However, I will definitely expand more on this topic in the future.
Forthly, thank you for sharing your opinion. I'm actually glad that you engaged with what I said as much as you did, and I hope that you liked the video and subscribed. Lol.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 I liked the video and I just subscribed to your channel looking forward to the next video.
I agree with you with the show passing over many details and more so in the account of the Black Faction, as in Rhaenyra main supporters, since the show decided the Dance of the Dragon is more about Rhaenyra and Alicent than Rhaenyra and Aegon, despite the references to the confrontation of their claims.
In the case of Otto, He was and is the Hand of the King, yet behind the pin of the Hand granted by a King that can name and strip it of it, he was the second son of Hightower. Certainly a powerful House with connection to the Faith of the Andals and the Order of Maesters all housed in Oldtown. Although he wasn't The Lord like Corlys but the second son of it and landless knight to boot. Alicent in the other hand was the daughter of a landless second son knight that boasted the pin of the Hand by the grace of King Viserys in a absolute monarchy. Alicent gains political power after her marriage by keeping some leverage to Viserys ear, the King's ear but that is trumped by the power Rhaenyra has time yes and time not over his old man.
So when Otto tries to grab more power than he was given, he has no backup. No King brother, nor dragon or a powerful army to give a pause to Viserys as to not throw his "truths" to his face (on the big screen). While Gerold Royce tries the same during Rhaenyra's wedding we see how belittled his concerns are by the backup of Daemon's brother the King and the Princess and Daemon himself. However it reaches a point in the show that also Otto has no accountability after the death of both Laena and Laenor in which Otto schemes with Vaemond to obviously undermine Viserys edict without it tracing back to him, he sats the Iron Throne as the Hand but commands the Crown Princess as the King because Viserys is given milk of the poppy until he refused that day her daughter was to come and defend her children's claim.
Everything that show has about Aegon is given in the books about a maidservant of his mother falling pregnant of his bastard (written by a Maester with acounts of another Maester and a septon), him warranting his unwanted touchs to other girls of lower status is made clear on the books, Aegon having 2 acknowledge bastards the same year her 14 year sister birthed his twins is also in the books, his love for wine and food is also in the book. His redeemable qualities listed in the book are his healthy disposition, initial denial of the crown, offering peace deal to Rhaenyra for him to be King, his pride in his dragon, fighting in the war as Rhaenyra did not.
There is no mention of Alicent loving her children in the books, but mentions of herself for a betrothal between Aegon and Rhaenyra which Viserys denied because explicitly says "he saw it was more about her ambition than Aegon's love for his sister". While we saw in the great screen Alicent misstreating her children, we also saw her going as far as she could to ensure their "survival" since such survival in her mind came with the crown that she thinks is owed to her son. Her passion for her children is also noted when she goes as far as to confront the king, princess and the Velaryons in their own home for Aemond.
Larys in the books we have little to no information so the show plays with the void left by GRRM himself. While Criston Cole is cited many times by septon Eustace and the Maesters to have being courted or courted by Rhaenyra only having Mushroom the one account being Daemon the one grooming Rhaenyra. Criston Cole also says in the show "not to tolerate such disrespect in her graces name the Queen", when in the books Ser Criston deliberately slits the throat of Lyman Beesbury in front of the Council when he denounces treason against the word of his grace Viserys. While the Council watches unbothered. Beesbury is a Reachmen House mind you as Reachmen as Hightower and no one said a thing. Even so Aegon praised him for his loyalty in the books.
The show deliberately tries to paint Alicent in a more passionate way and less scheming and more victim. The same with Aemond in which the maesters and septon described from birth as a ferocious child, when growing as a angry lad and when grown he is described as mad, perturbed, impulsive, bloodthirsty by the agents of the Citadel of Oldtown and the Faith of the Starry Faith in Oldtown. When the Show puts him as a passionate and dedicated brother, defensive of his siblings and confrontational to their rivals.
While Daemon which in the book he clearly does not kill his wife, in the great screen he kills her without remorse and present us a young and pretty Rhea Royce when in the books he is 16 when he is forced to wed her by being dragged by the Kingsguard to an already ruling lady of Runestone. He is said to have mourn his bastard beget in Mysaria and being extremely angry with Viserys for the demise of it, while the show presents a lying Daemon and abusive customer of Mysaria when they were pretty close in the books during his youth and after it. Daemon is said to have slain the unwanted betrothed of Laena and eloped together to Essos, travelling from Pentos, Volantis, Norvos, Qohor, Braavos, the Rhoyne, practically on a wedding loving trip almost the entire of their marriage and expressively mourning Laena after her ultimate miscarriage on Driftmark not Pentos. The show presents an uncaring Daemon, awful to Laena and Rhaena, neglectful of his children during the scene of the eye of Aemond, and uncaring of his daughters marriages desires. He chokes Rhaenyra on the great screen, because he wants war. In the books, Daemon cautions against open war and suggest for ravens first. Explicitly he wants to avoid in the books pitting dragon against dragon "unless it is his last resource", while the show he is like "we have more dragons, I have eggs and what are you going to do about!"
The Showrunners practically chose to contradict almost everything that was on the book regarding Daemon, while making empathise with Aemond, Alicent and Rhaenyra. Certainly the show could have try to contradict what the book says about Aegon but it wouldn't serve towards Rhaenyra who is their main protagonist along Alicent. So it seems they chose to demonise characters that which help make the public more empathic with the two great female players of the Dance: Alicent and Rhaenyra. I mean they cut entirely Laena's character or Corlys or the court displays between greens or blacks or the Stepstones or Daeron son of Alicent or their lives growing until the boiling point before the Dance. They concentrated towards what was happening or will affect Rhaenyra and Alicent.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 In the case of Vaemond you go towards the point of Eddard Stark as to make a parallel. Well even Eddard Stark knew that only the heir is given all by its predecessor and I cite him. “Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything." This he says to Catelyn in AGOT. Eddard multiple times remarks that he would have had nothing had Brandon not died without heirs, while Corlys in this case already has heirs in the form of Laenor and Laena and after them their children before ever going to Vaemond's line. Remember that Velaryons do not follow the Seven. They pay tribute to the Merlin King and their tradition is not Andal but their own choice. While Laenor lived, both Corlys and Laenor ackowledge the Strong Boys as their heirs. In the books their bastardy is not as clear in the show.
The show changed the skin color of the Velaryons so to make them different and brig variety, yet they made Rhaenys white blond when she is described as having dark hair which is used by Rhaenyra to claim that the "brown" hair is their Baratheon color. Not that makes them any bastard, but when both parents acknowledges their children as theirs who is denounce their bastardy when both are adamant to remain as it is.
Vaemond is not Stannis here. He knows that Laena had children and despite Corlys acknowledging Laenor's heirs first than Laenas, it doesn't mean Baela and Rhaena's claims are behind Vaemon. Yet Vaemon goes to Kingslanding and the Hightower, Lannister and Wylde Council to appeal to their favouritism of the Andal only male - line tradition so to pass the seat towards Vaemond when Corlys is still alive. More so when the law of Andals gives the power to the lords to appoint heirs of their choosing and disinherit heirs too. Like when Tywin disinherits Tyrion or Doran planned to do it with Arianne despite Arianne's future children if married to a claimant to the Iron throne wouldn't take her claim to Sunspear. Or Aemon Brightflame because he was mad or Duncan the Small disinherited by his father Aegon V for marrying Jenny of Oldstones.
Aegon IV tried to denounce bastardy of Daeron, he didn't himself but is suspected to have used a knight. Yet Aemon the Dragonknight used the trial by combat to deny in the eyes of gods and men the innocence of the queen, and won thus invalidating the bastardy claims.
So on and so on, in the case of Vaemond he had the power card of being backed by the Greens and that the Strong boys looked Strong in the show while in the books the case was more feeble. Yet Corlys never hesitated to defend their claim because they were in the books betrothed to Baela and Rhaena since the girls were 1 year old and in the show because the path towards his name in the throne went by them and the paths towards his blood in both thrones went by Baela and Rhaena. His plans for his grandchildren and blood in the form of Laena's girls were his life time work, something that Vaemond tried to usurp just to take the wealth Corlys himself acquired and the power with it, since Corlys didn't inherited his riches nor the power from his father when the Velaryon House was nor remarkable.
I'm so glad everyone is starting to see this liberal bias😂. Allicent is a dutiful lady who does what she has to for her family yet she's portrayed as an unlikable brat of a woman, while RHAENYRA runs around being immoral but is the "Good Lady" lmao
But Alicent isn't dutiful. If she was, she would have obeyed her husband and kings orders and Rhaenyra would have remained heir. Alicent, in my opinion, is worse in the show because she seems to lack agency. In the books, at least she was in on it.
the truth has been spoken /\
Is this channel really quiet or is my phone just even shittier than I thought 🤔
Such a good analyze! I agree completely. I loved the show before reading the books, but after reading it I realized how much they ruined the story just to make of it this feminist propaganda but at the same time they took all agency from women characters. Really terrible decision and I don't have too much faith in the next seasons, they probably will be horrible. I'm still team green both in the show and in the book 💚
The show did the same to Alicent. Alicent was horrible to Rhaeynra in the book.
GRRM said that he originally wanted to make the dance 5050 but later changed it because how do you make a story about a woman being usurped on the sole basis that she is a woman a fair story... Remember the only reason Rhaenyra was called Maegor with teats was because she raised the taxes in Kingslanding
I agree that they definitely removed alot of Alicent's agency but they also removed alot of Rhaenyra's agency as well so 🤷♂️
They removed rhaenyras bad parts and added good parts.
Rhaenyra can do no wrong.
Shes literally perfecr in the show.
The only "mistake" which isnt even a mistake and its not seen as a mistake is sleeping with criston cole.
She refuses to go to war,she doesnt kill vaemon herself,shes even a good friend to alicent.
And alicent is portrayed as the one who stabbed her in the back by marrying her father.
And dont even get me started on that scene of aegons coronation.
Rhaenys' entrance was so out of place and so bad,i cringed when it happened.
If that happened in the books,the dance would not exist and the targaryens would have dragons til 300 AC
Rhaenyra wasn’t “usurped” because she was a woman. The rules of the realm clearly stated before she was even born that male heirs to the Iron Throne had stronger claims than female heirs. This is the entire reason that Viserys is King, and thus is the only reason why Rhaenyra even had a claim to the Iron Throne in the first place.
If there was no rule prioritizing male claims to the Throne, Rhaenyra would not have had a direct claim to it.
Rhaenyra’s entire character motivation is ignoring this fact and the rules to usurp the throne for herself. She openly plots against her younger brothers. That’s the reality of it, which is what makes it so complex and interesting.
@@Doomzdeh male primogenitor is a custom in Westoros not a law
@@Doomzdeh are you stupid? The political system in the GOT universe is a monarchy, at the end of the day, the monarch has the final say. Viserys named Rhaenyra his heir, she should be the heir. The lords and vassals may have their objections but to plot against the king’s wishes is treason.
Well this is only the first season... things can change alot
I hope it will be that the shot of Rhaenyra after learning her son is dead, will be the start of her character becoming worse and her downfall. She will either order B and C, or approve of it when Daemon does it, shocking her surviving sons and allies, then show herself cowardly, rash, violent, as she loses her sons and grows ever more fixated on the throne over everyone around her, and she is selfish so it's a perfect arc.
The key point will be when she arrests Corlys and has him tortured for not letting Addam be hunted down and killed, and approves of Maelor's death and smiles like Robert did when he saw the dead children. When she lets the taxes be raised and raised while Heleana dies under her watch . She becomes just a cruel, paranoid, power hungry and callous tyrant who is hated by everyone and loses her Velaryon allies and is blasted by Corlys and a woman who smiles over the death of children and her own family. Even Daemon refuses her eventually. And then when her own young son is willing to do what she isn't and safeguard the dragons, and under her incompetence she loses the entire city and all of her dragons and last "velaryon" son. The good moment would be her sitting on the throne and cutting herself, rejected like her father was in his reign. It says something when both Aegon 3 and Viserys didn't defend their mother and let her be called a usurper forever more while Aegon 2 is acknowledged as a true ruler, it could be that both were disillusioned by all that she had done and felt she was unworthy of it.
That was one of the first things I noticed (and hated) about the show: the lack of "there's no good or bad people, but only people" from the good old days of GoT.... I don't know why but Season 1 of HotD gave me Got Season 5 vibes... I'm worried...
I only agree with your points on rhaenyra.
The book largely gives daemon the same treatment as the show. Daemon is never punished for anything wrong he does in either medium, whether its leading an insurrection on dragonstone or killing vaemond. And he was the one portrayed as advancing the black cause the most, just like the show. The only thing that isnt really portrayed is the relationship with viserys, but that can be ascribed to the fact fire and blood is a history novel.
Corlys wants his wife to sit the iron throne yes, but that obviously benefits him immensely. You yourself said rhaenys is subservient to his wishes, so just as it was said if rhae became queen daemon would have been the ruler, if rhaenys became queen, corlys would have been the ruler. Also i would say his motivations are highlighted best when he says "history doesnt remember blood it remembers names." Corlys wants his legacy to be cemented in the history books, so he schemes to have his wife and someone with the velaryon name, sit the iron throne.
Rhaenys portrayed as likable? She literally murdered more civilians on screen than every green put together.
But sadly the audience largely doesn't care about the civilians Rhaenys killed. It's portrayed as a girlboss moment and most people cheared it. They also went out of their way to portray Vaemond as a joke to makes his death at Daemon's hand to be more justified or even considered badass in the show.
As for Rhaenyra and Daemon, the show takes away any blood from Rhaenyra's hands and puts it all on Daemon's. Daemon and the greens are the scapegoats for all of Rhaenyra's evil deeds. Daemon is ruthless in both the books and the show but in the show Rhaenyra's sins are also transfered to him. Rhaenyra is portrayed as having good potential to be a good queen which she just didn't have in the books. They also pick Lucerys death as the moment that makes her want to kill the greens when she was already thirsty for their blood before that in the books when she blamed them for her miscarriage.
They also picked the worst version of Aegon possible and make it even 10 times worse to further vilify him.
While show Rhaenyra and show Daemon are still objectively bad people, they are framed as the right side and their oponents as either monsters or idiots.
Rhaenys mass-murdered a bunch of smallfolk but how is that framed in the show? Well, it's framed as her heroic moment standing up against the rapist usurper in favor of Rhaenyra being the rightful heir. She then promptly goes to Rhaenyra and pledges her support and the show makes it a point to show how happy and proud Rhaenys looks as Rhaenyra is handling everything like a true ruler. At no point was her mass murder framed to be villainous
@masterplokoon8803 she wasn' "out for blood" before lucerys' death. She offered her brothers the chance to live if they surrendered and was still willing to give that to daeron even later in the war.
@@mappingshaman5280 she was already cruel and tyranical before Luke's death, the atempted torture of Aemond and the murders of Vaemond and Laenor prove that. But in the show it's framed as if she was a good person until losing Lucerys. And during the war she rejects Corlys proposals to make peace when she has the advantadge.
@@masterplokoon8803 Well to be fair, she still asked for Aemond to be "sharply questioned" in episode 7 and was gaslighting everyone about her bastard sons not being bastards. While they cut out a lot of her ugliest qualities, at least they kept her being the deceptive liar she was in the book.
Great video!
Thank you 💯
While I feel like the writers paint the Black Faction as the "good guys," it's pretty easy to look past their nudgings and see that the Green Faction is still just as justified, on who has the legitimate claim (Aegon), and the personal strife between Alicent and Rhaenyra. I do like Rhaenyra as a character, and had things not unfolded like they had, she may have been a good queen. But her father outright states he named her out of grief, not because he believed she was the Prince that was Promised. Alicent has done everything the "correct" way, but the way Viserys carried his house, treating Rhaenyra with absolute impunity when she should have been disinherited after the situation with Daemon. There was never a stronger time to name Aegon heir and be done with it, aside from his actual birth.
Greens aren't justified and Aegon has no legitimate claim. Disinheriting Rhaenyra because of Deamon situation? Why? Where there is law that states Crown Princess cannot have premarital sex? (If Rhaenyra was male, there wasn't even be question here). Situation is scandalous because Rhaneyra is woman, but there is no law that would prohibit her being with Daemon or say she would lost her claim. Threat of being disinherited was effect of unequal treating of geneder in Westeros, not actual law. And we shouldn't encourage misogyny. It's anaology to saying: Alicent should hit Aegon more when he was a child, so he would be better person. Sorry, but there is nothing to jutify abuse - just liek nothing can justify misogyny. Rhaneyra should NOT be disinherited on basis her live life, just liek Alicent should never put her hands on Aegon.
Aegon's claim rests on him being the firstborn son of the King, THAT is the law. Rhaenyra's claim rests on her being the named heir because her grieving father was guilty about killing her mother to get a male heir. You're interjecting modern-day politics where the rules 100% do not apply.
In this world, there is a very clear and consice standard held to highborn noble women and that standard includes not fucking your uncle publicly in a whorehouse. If Viserys ever felt inclined to teach his daughter the finer points of action=consequence, she would have been disinherited and the realm would not have bat an eye because he would have taken this insanely out-of-the-ordinary, contentious situation about having a female heir that has all the lords plus his own court up in arms, and put it rest there. There would be no civil war because he would have returned things to the status quo and at that stage, the realm would have accepted it as normal.
And Aegon would not have turned out had he did, if not just Alicent, but the whole of his family didn't treat him like he was a cancer, yet simultaneously hold him to an impossible standard.
"One day, you'll be our king, but in the meantime, we'll treat you with contempt for something that is fully out of your control: being the male heir the king always wanted, AFTER he named Rhaenyra out of grief, not duty." How to permanently damage a child's brain 101.
@@ryanasencio8299 So are you gonna justify Aegon's assult by saying that "damnation of assualt is modern idea"? Or are you gonna condemn him? Some things are universally bad. Assault and abuse are universally evil and so is misogyny. Living in modern world, I fully support Rhaenyra. She was chosen by King - that is LAW and it does NOT matter what made his choice. He decided she will be next ruler, and her children after her - Aegon's claim is null and void. Status quo means stand by misogyny. Definitely good for stability of the Kingdom, but unacceptable from modern perspective. Aegon and Alicent are responsible for war, because of their misogyny, not Viserys and Rhaneyra.
I will tel you this: if realm have to fill with blood, so "status quo" could end, so it be. Changes world for better won't start if people will uphold "status quo". If realm has to fill with blood for one woman have her inheritence (over brother who usurped her not because she was bad ruler, but becauese of her gender) the relam SHOULD fill with blood. This war was caused by injustice done to rightfull heir, that is Rhaneyra. And she has every roght to correct this - and if this means she has to fill Kingdom with blood, so it be, that is her right. [Also - Rhaneyra - did NOT sleep with Dameon asnd even if so - that is not a reason to disinherit her. Claiming it is very misogynistic.]
You're using the term misogyny interchangeably with patriarchy when they are not the same thing. One is a prejudice, the other is tradition. Aegon the Conqueror swore to uphold Westerosi tradition, which is a patriarchy.
I have nothing personally against Rhaenyra, and if I had my pick, Rhaenys would have been queen.
But saying an entire country should burn for the sake of having a woman as ruler or breaking a status quo, which served Westeros just fine for 60 years prior, is the most disqualifying opinion I've heard from anyone seeking to opine on leadership, let alone competent leadership.
Good day.
@@ryanasencio8299 I was NOT talking about who is "competent leader" but who is rightfull leader. Rhaneyra is rightfull leader and she was usurped because of her gender. Now, if she was bad ruler and if there was a competent man willling to save kingdom from her, then I would support him. But that wasn't the case. Her crown wasn't stolent because she was incomeptent, so I can't support usurpation. No, I didn't use those words intercheangably. Show me on instance when I did this. (Aegon swore... what else? Should I gave you what things my ancestors swore? Law can be changed.)