Thanks for posting this rarely seen clip AND all your other stuff JJ .I'm guessing He was giving the runner up the best part of three stone in that finish .
Type Flyingbolt into Wikipedia and you will find a great article which tells the story of that famous gallop and also his attempt to win the Champion Chase and Champion Hurdle in the space of 24 hours.
Height of Fashion was a really good mare, and getting massive weights from both Arkle and Flyingbolt, but both were still able to narrowly beat her. Both Arkle and Flyingbolt were tremendous horses. You don't see horses like those giving so much weight to other class animals these days, its not done. But back in the day, they were not afraid to pit their stars against lesser mortals in the big handicaps.
They never ran Arkle and Flying Bolt against each , I think they only met on the gallops one time, after which they were kept apart. Though if my memory serves me correctly they had adjoining stalls in their stable.
Isbaileydeadyet - you comment that training, feed etc have improved, this is true, so too has course preparation and drainage - courses are seldom like the ploughed fields Arkle and Flyingbolt often ran on - and yet Arkle STILL holds the course record for 3 1/4 miles at Sandown when he was carrying in excess of 12st! Couple of other points; after the KG in 66(?) it took Pat Taafe nearly half a mle to pull him up and Flying Bolt was rated 210.
He was giving the runner-up (Height O'Fashion) 30 lbs. Interestingly, 2 years later, Flyingbolt won the Irish National beating Height O'Fashion by 2 lengths giving her 40 lbs.There was little or nothing between these 2 great horses and many of those working in Dreaper's yard at the time considered Flyingbolt to be the better of the 2.
Pat taaffe said Arkle by at least a stone ...he should know better than anyone.... interestingly, he also said mill House was second best chaser he rode.
Interesting you should mention Flyingbolt . Ex jockey Barry Brogan (interviewed in the RP last week) worked at the stable and rated Flyingbolt the better and was quoted.. " if Pat Taffe were alive today , he'd tell you the same" .
No, he wouldn't. In fact in his book Pat Taaffe rated Arkle the best horse he ever rode, Mill House second, and then Flyingbolt and Royal Approach. Flyingbolt, incredibly, had the potential to be at least the equal of Arkle but fate stepped in and denied him the opportunity.
@@keithknight1686 exactly....how can brogan, work rider speak for taaffe! In his book he said," Arkle with a bit in hand" That bit in hand was at least a stone he said.
@@beverleymorris167 In agreeing that Arkle was the greatest chaser, we must not denigrate Flyingbolt. He won a Champion 2-mile Chase and later won an Irish Grand National giving away the sort of weight Arkle was always asked to do and winning by a distance that Arkle never achieved in a handicap. We know how good Arkle was, and if fate were kinder to him his achievements might have surpassed what is in the form book - Pat Taaffe had persuaded the Duchess of Westminster to allow 'Himself' to be entered in the Grand National, for instance - while with Flyingbolt we can only dream of what he might have achieved. And the person with the most authority on the subject is Pat Taaffe and he had no doubt which was the best.
No reason not to rate Arkle exactly where he is. Maybe Kauto Star's rating should be higher than it is. Not much point in referencing lbs to margin of victory though. Horses that are well beaten are usually eased off when clear in second place. The weight is far less relevant as an accurate comparable factor than in Flat racing. The manner of victory when carrying weight is far more important. If handicapping was a precise science, horses would regularly finish in a dead heat.
@@quidnunc2436 Quite right sir. Arkle was immortal and in a class of his own but would Golden Miller of gone close .Kind regards Glynn n Greetings from Stourbridge West Midlands
@@glynnevans1851 actually I think kauto was rated too high..... beaten at level weights too much to have that rating, also the 2 times he gave pitiful amounts of weight...he was beaten. And not by champions like Arkle beat Dishing weight out.
@@glynnevans1851 Golden miller wouldn't get within 30 to forty length of Arkle at levels. He beat the so called horse of the century mill House by 20 length, in 1965 gold cup, on the bridle..... mill House would have slaughtered golden miller.
Thanks for posting this rarely seen clip AND all your other stuff JJ .I'm guessing He was giving the runner up the best part of three stone in that finish .
Type Flyingbolt into Wikipedia and you will find a great article which tells the story of that famous gallop and also his attempt to win the Champion Chase and Champion Hurdle in the space of 24 hours.
Height of Fashion was a really good mare, and getting massive weights from both Arkle and Flyingbolt, but both were still able to narrowly beat her. Both Arkle and Flyingbolt were tremendous horses. You don't see horses like those giving so much weight to other class animals these days, its not done. But back in the day, they were not afraid to pit their stars against lesser mortals in the big handicaps.
They never ran Arkle and Flying Bolt against each , I think they only met on the gallops one time, after which they were kept apart. Though if my memory serves me correctly they had adjoining stalls in their stable.
Isbaileydeadyet - you comment that training, feed etc have improved, this is true, so too has course preparation and drainage - courses are seldom like the ploughed fields Arkle and Flyingbolt often ran on - and yet Arkle STILL holds the course record for 3 1/4 miles at Sandown when he was carrying in excess of 12st! Couple of other points; after the KG in 66(?) it took Pat Taafe nearly half a mle to pull him up and Flying Bolt was rated 210.
3 mile...not 3/14👍
He was giving the runner-up (Height O'Fashion) 30 lbs. Interestingly, 2 years later, Flyingbolt won the Irish National beating Height O'Fashion by 2 lengths giving her 40 lbs.There was little or nothing between these 2 great horses and many of those working in Dreaper's yard at the time considered Flyingbolt to be the better of the 2.
2 years later....maybe height of fashion wasn't as good as when Arkle beat her?🤔
Pat taaffe said Arkle by at least a stone ...he should know better than anyone....
interestingly, he also said
mill House was second best
chaser he rode.
You have a wonderful imagination.
I second that flying bolt was the better horse.u have a horrid imagination
@IWuvIm Arkle crossed his front legs when jumping a fence.
Interesting you should mention Flyingbolt . Ex jockey Barry Brogan (interviewed in the RP last week) worked at the stable and rated Flyingbolt the better and was quoted.. " if Pat Taffe were alive today , he'd tell you the same" .
No, he wouldn't. In fact in his book Pat Taaffe rated Arkle the best horse he ever rode, Mill House second, and then Flyingbolt and Royal Approach. Flyingbolt, incredibly, had the potential to be at least the equal of Arkle but fate stepped in and denied him the opportunity.
@@keithknight1686 exactly....how can brogan,
work rider speak for taaffe!
In his book he said," Arkle with a bit in hand"
That bit in hand was at least a stone he said.
@@beverleymorris167 In agreeing that Arkle was the greatest chaser, we must not denigrate Flyingbolt. He won a Champion 2-mile Chase and later won an Irish Grand National giving away the sort of weight Arkle was always asked to do and winning by a distance that Arkle never achieved in a handicap. We know how good Arkle was, and if fate were kinder to him his achievements might have surpassed what is in the form book - Pat Taaffe had persuaded the Duchess of Westminster to allow 'Himself' to be entered in the Grand National, for instance - while with Flyingbolt we can only dream of what he might have achieved. And the person with the most authority on the subject is Pat Taaffe and he had no doubt which was the best.
@@keithknight1686 👍👍👍👍
No reason not to rate Arkle exactly where he is. Maybe Kauto Star's rating should be higher than it is. Not much point in referencing lbs to margin of victory though. Horses that are well beaten are usually eased off when clear in second place. The weight is far less relevant as an accurate comparable factor than in Flat racing. The manner of victory when carrying weight is far more important. If handicapping was a precise science, horses would regularly finish in a dead heat.
One thing I'm absolutely certain of, and that is that Arkle would have trounced Kauto Star at level weights. No doubt in my mind about that
@@quidnunc2436 Quite right sir. Arkle was immortal and in a class of his own but would Golden Miller of gone close .Kind regards Glynn n Greetings from Stourbridge West Midlands
@@glynnevans1851 actually I think kauto was rated too high..... beaten at level weights too much to have
that rating, also the 2 times he gave pitiful amounts of weight...he was beaten.
And not by champions
like Arkle beat
Dishing weight out.
@@glynnevans1851 Golden miller wouldn't get within
30 to forty length of Arkle
at levels. He beat the so
called horse of the century
mill House by 20 length,
in 1965 gold cup, on the bridle..... mill House would
have slaughtered golden miller.
Surely thats life, injury means not superbly fit? no knocking horse..lets check out Arkles injuries shall we ?? lol
@tarqogan denman who won the gold cup in 08 would have destroyed arkle
Well you always did talk out of the part of your anatomy that everyone else uses for toilet purposes.
What a joke.
@@rorybrennan360 what the tape, arkle ran in a weak era
Kato was better than Denman.the 2nd best horse of all time lived next door to Arkle.Flyingbolt.
@@TissuePrices You do talk some twaddle!!