Islam and the Future of Tolerance (Fixed Sound)
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- čas přidán 16. 09. 2015
- Panelists Sam Harris, Co-founder and Chief Executive of Project Reason and Maajid Nawaz Founding Chairman of Quilliam, joined moderator Juliette Kayyem, Lecturer in Public Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School, for a panel discussion to reflect on the future of Islam and tolerance regarding it. The panelists discussed many topics regarding Islam in modern society, such as Islam's place in modern culture, the events leading up to the modern public perception of Islam, and Islamic extremism. These topics were put forth with the final goal of collaborating to ensure a stable future of tolerance in the world.
A panel discussion with:
Sam Harris
Neuroscientist, Co-founder and Chief Executive, Project Reason,
Author, The End of Faith, Letter to a Christian Nation, among others
Maajid Nawaz
Author, Radical
Founding Chairman, Quilliam
Juliette Kayyem (moderator)
Lecturer in Public Policy, Harvard Kennedy School
Former Assistant Secretary for Intergovernmental Affairs, US Department of Homeland Security
"If your free exercise of your religion requires that I follow its precepts, that is not freedom of religion; that is theocracy." -Sam Harris
Islam is not really a religion it is a deen, a way of life or system. Like any system it is impossible for it to function without it being dominant. As a comparison capitalism tends to focus on the individual disregarding the community, communism meanwhile focuses on the community and forgetting the individual. Islam is recognised as a middle road between the two.
+Abid Hussain +Abid Hussain Interesting, I'd been ignorant of this word/concept until
now. It's a useful distinction. It may not be unique among religions in
its intent to be universal (see: the "Catholic" Church), but it does
make clear why Islam is a legitimate subject of skepticism and inquiry,
and why to be skeptical of it -- even as a white male non-believer --
need not have anything at all to do with racism.
*Any* system that wants to be universal, and would compel my participation and/or assent, and whose devotees are motivated and in significant cases willing to use coercion and violence to get there -- whether catholicism or Islam, communism or catholicism -- should provoke a healthy distrust among freedom-loving people of all political persuasions. Islam would bore me if it didn't want to -- one day if not now -- want to tell me what to do.
So you would rather do whatever is the norm in society right?
+Abid Hussain no. I want to live under a secular government, because that's the only way to guarantee religious freedom, and because, to the extent possible I want to be free to follow my conscience, wherever that takes me (whether that means embracing cultural norms or rejecting them is beside the point). By definition, if I'm living under a deen (as I understand it), I'm not free to do that -- I have to submit to a theocracy instead. I'm not saying our current capitalist democracy (so-called) is ideal, but it beats any theocracy I can imagine.
+henrypbel The Middle East/Asia is not Europe secularism is like a dead horse there. I think that part of the reason why the Arab Spring began was the world witnessing the reemergence of the Asian economies particularly China to a lesser extent India and to a even lesser extent Russia (mainly effecting turkey), this would have at least spurred them on as they want to see the same level of progress. Chances are the more the Asian economies develop the more confident Muslims will become in calling for the resumption of the Khilafah.
Freedom of speech is the reason why we have this conversation.
We must defend freedom of speech in order to defeat any bad ideas.
@be positivei hope you are not equating Muslim countries with islam religion by saying Muslim countries don't have freedom of speech. ... Because one question that cited a UN report saying that the reason a lot of these countries being not as liberal (say compared to West) has little to do with the religion of islam.
I am not sure if you are but thought i would clarify.
@@dexterdexter402 you must have no idea what pefophile mouhamid did with those who criticized him. Ex, 9 Om Kerfa, Asmaa, his own tribe when they didn't believe his fairy tale stories. The tradition of punishing anyone who dates to question anything Islamic teachings in mouzlim countries is alive and well.
@@silverjones2317 i don't think you know much about muhammad. I would recommend you read an independent book not an article about him written by a non muslim. But you attacking integrity of muhammad and me defending it is a separate issue. Good job dodging the issue. .. i am for respectful freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is the point to discuss.
As for those countries who punish when you question anything about muhammad or anyone else i say FUCK Them. As for as i know islam places a responsibility (not a wish but responsibility) on humans for inquiry and intellectual improvement.
@@dexterdexter402 I suggest you read about mouhamid in your own Arabic resources ex ibn Hisham
@@dexterdexter402 so, a Muslim can FREELY draw the prophet?! That would be freedom of speech.
"It Is Useless To Attempt To Reason A Man Out Of A Thing He Was Never Reasoned Into" was swift. And it's a great quote for there.
Benjamin Jones But the whole psychological discipline of cognitive behavioural therapy tends to disprove it...
it sounds good but Sam then rightly went on to say that it wasn't true.
Which is why I am astounded and in awe of the courage it takes for people to leave islam, after being brainwashed from birth, particularly in muslim-run countries, especially to become and see such violence and hatred from your family, held as something to be proud of. Imagine the intelligence, determination and bravery it must take to escape from the cultish thinking that is religious, cultural and political islam!
did you just hear those words and not the words directly after? about how it is obviously not true? lol wtf........
@@oxydreamer In fact, I did hear just those words and not the ones after until around six months ago, when I read a comment about it and re-listened, and indeed WTF. I'm too vain or squeamish to reply to my own comment with "what an idiot!", but perfectly fair for you to do so!
If you only believe certain parts of the book then you have to admit that the book is not divinely inspired by God. If you still insist that the book is divinely inspired, but refuse some of the teachings, then you are saying that God has faults and that you disagree with the supreme deity.
False, obviously. The fault can lay with man's transcription and translation. Which is what apologists not only could claim, but do claim.
The problem with that is ... how do we identify which parts are divinely inspired and which are not?
I mean ... is this your first time having a go at this? Certainly appears that way.
+Skindoggiedog You just basically supported what I said. You must be new at this
The Qur'an says of itself that it is a direct quotation from God, in all its entirety. Saying that uncomfortable readings are just "misunderstandings" or "interpretations", perhaps in bad faith or out of political aims or out of worldly ails, is making the fatal error of confusing raw information (the text as is) with the vague and ultimately unbased hope that religions surely cannot be that destabilizing, unjust or just plain evil. You really should know better. There is really, really bad content in the Qur'an, and it takes a noble idiot to gloss it over.
Perhaps there will be an upsurge of Sufism in the Muslim intelligentsia, that is my prediction and my hope, to the Sufi jihad means an inner spiritual struggle, passages can be metaphorical,it could be compared to the Bhagavad Gita where Krishna and Arjuna are on a battlefield, but it is a battle of the mind and heart, not to be taken literally.
I think the Sufis have correctly interpreted this, but the literalists have dominated.
I'm going to come across as anti-religious here, but that's fine. You have nailed the poison that religion is - it's a poison of the mind. An individual, rather than admit that they or their beliefs could be wrong in front of their peer group, feel threatened and insecure enough to dig their heels in and fight against the perceived onslaught. This is natural by the way; it's the amygdala, our primal brain, in action.
You cannot fight someone out of a prison of their own making... you have to show them the open door and invite them to leave, or be content to converse through the prison bars that they reside behind.
someone tape ben affleck's eyelids open and make him watch this
+Black Bellamy i second that! Yo Ben, get yo libertarded ass o'er here!
+Sheyvan Lmfao, don't forget to bring Reza Aslan along as well! That unsophisticated and facile dishonest twit needs this enlightening royal treatment too!
+Black Bellamy your comment triggered me to watch this video :)
Ben was just trying to appear as someone "intolerant of intolerance", and he failed... The reason: he has a huge lack of knowledge on that matter, and of course he didn't know who Sam Harris is, what he was trying to explain and what his researches actually mean to the intellectual community.
+Luis Felipe Viloria Pastor He didn't need to know who sam harris was.. he just needed to understand english.
Sam explained his point brilliantly, as always.. and Ben had no interest in listening.
We're on the right track if we begin to have more conversations of this kind.
Maajid and Sam are both liberals I believe.
Sam is a classical liberal.. and so is anybody worth conversing with on any of these issues..
economically sam is left leaning too. Note - i said left leaning, not left.
that´s why usamerican political nomenklatur always confuses me. Being a liberal means being left right? However in an economic sense, liberalism is more right then left (right?)
Karim Shebeika Not at all. liberalism is definitely left on economic issues. liberals tend to be for income redistribution and higher taxes and regulations. That's definitely leftist thinking. The right believes in the opposite
Very happy to see conversations like this. This is how intelligent people who care about humanity deal with having different beliefs. Very inspiring.
I prefer to just stand up in the audience and loudly interrupt them with various accusations of bigotry. If that fails I just scream unintelligently and flail around. LOL.
Sam harris says he does not believe in free will still he makes moral judgment
@@TawheedPromoter
What is free about it?
Nothing that is you up to a certain age was under your control.
You did not decide your parents, you did not decide where you where brought up and you did not decide what school or teachers you had to influence everything you now know.
You did most likely not choose your faith, if that is the family faith or the leading faith in that country you were more or less bound to believe in it.
In the same way you would most likely be a Christian in the US or a Hindu in India.
You did not choose who you are in the same way that you can't just choose to not belive in God any longer.
You can't choose to belive that grass is blue or the sun is purple.
It is not up to you what you think or believe.
Our brain is just like CZcams running an algorithm on us.
What is you, if not the brain conditioned from environment and genes?
When a person gets brain-damaged the personality often changes completely, like it is another person all of a sudden.
No, There is no free will.
We are all just the result of genes and our environment, neither of which we ourselves have any control over.
@@-Rambi- ok then why he makes moral arguments against muslims if we are not free
@@TawheedPromoter If you really want to know, you can probably find some summaries of his books "Free Will" and "The Moral Landscape"
What an overblown intro for a moderator.
Ya i was searching for this comment
The moderator herself was annoyed.
Plus “a man/woman for all seasons” doesn’t mean that you have a lot of credentials. That’s not what that means at all. She probably meant to say “jack [insert clever female substitute here] of all trades” but got the expressions mixed up.
A solid, and literal, 1 minute and 30 seconds of list of accomplisments...introducer cleverly forgetting that, after about 25 seconds, we're so annoyed at not getting the name of the fantastic person, that we disregard their name entirely in sheer fucking frustration; and yeah, you bet your ass that's embarrasing, and it would be for anyone..Jesus himself in that position would be like 'alright, fucking calm down now, jeees..ehm..moving on'
I feel more that the black lady disliked some request made by the moderator so she burned her on stage XD
Good discussion. Thanks to Sam and Maajid!
"There is no tension between free speech and freedom of religion. If your free exercise of religion requires that I follow your precepts, that's not freedom of religion. That's theocracy." - Sam Harris
The problem there is that Islam doesn't force anyone fo follow it.
@@alnotbiggaytho7124 so you family leaving you behind if you drop the religion is not force
Alperen 0485 have you seen the Pew polls about the massive
Percentage of Muslims who are for stoning Muslims who leave the religion?
Seriously google it.
@@bobb7317 I have not heard of any Muslim stoned for leaving his religion. In any case the Quran is very clear when it says " Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error." (2:256). So if anyone is stoned for any reason, it is not the Quran that mandates this punishment for any crime! I repeat, for any crime!
@@ahmedakhan1 Read about Lina Joy in Malaysia if you want some examples. She's not stoned, but her life surely became worse for her
A really interesting and insightful talk, thank you
It's not often somebody shares a stage with Sam Harris and looks like the more nuanced thinker. Maajid managed it here, especially with his longer speeches near the end.
+RichardofEssexShire I don't agree, there are many contradictions within him, I find it hard to listen to people that do not realize how often they argue against their own principles, it just hurts my head.
I don't agree either but this is one of the very few times where I didn't fast foward just to hear Sam Harris
+RichardofEssexShire Well this comes down more to the fact that Sam is normally on the side of religions as a whole and the damage being done to the human race for such beliefs. This different goal, as looking for a way to move forward, gives him a bit less of a reason to override Maajid. They compliment each other well and I think that more people need to be paying attention to these 2.
+RichardofEssexShire Intellectually, I think Maajid and Sam are pretty evenly matched. Maajid is a better wordsmith though.
Thanks for fixing the audio! I thought I was going deaf.
I've had this over a year on my watch later, glad I finally gave it a watch.
Why do people say Islam is a race? it is a theology that promotes theocracy
Most don't, except possibly inadvertently when people misuse "racism" to mean "predjudicial" or "discriminatory". That being said, Islam has more than one theology that goes by the same name and not all of them promote theocracy. In fact, it's not hard to find Muslims who actively oppose theocracy.
No theocracy but promote rule of Quran and sunnah not a brahamin class
It's completely ridiculous that this not watched a million times, very interesting!
Why
A marvelous presentation and now I've got much to think about. Thank you.
Check out my playlist on shariah
Our civilisation, whatever it is, is lucky to have Maajid and Sam.
You are brainwashed
@@TawheedPromoter ok boomer
Maajid made an error when he said that his life experiences as a Muslim make it impossible for him to be Islamophobic. Your claims and arguments do not depend on who you are. It doesn't matter if they are spoken by a straight white male atheist or a homosexual black woman Muslim. If these two people made the same claims and arguments, BOTH OR NEITHER of them would be Islamophobic or sexist or racist.
I thought it was impossible to be islamaphobic because a phobia is an irrational fear...
If an argument's conclusion is true, that doesn't mean the argument is valid. My point is Maajid made an invalid argument.
Did he actually say it was impossible for him to be islamaphobic for those reasons? I dont remember. I took it as being strong evidence that he isn't, not that it means its impossible for him to be islamaphobic.
I'd say he made an error because he either doesn't know, or hides, the fact that that term is created by islamic scholars to shut down discussion. There are info on how to determine if someone is an islamophobe, and it actually boils down to "someone who knows that islam exists but haven't converted yet". In that light, the term is truly useless and only a weapon. We need a counter-measure, and that is "kafferophobe" to put a name on those of the islamic faith that do believe that everybody outside of their specific version of islam (oh, yes, there are conflicts within the ummah because of different views) is somehow a threat to their way of life.
Long intros. Jeez! If you know everyone it starts at around 14:00
-_- uh no
Thank you.
Michael Buffer, famous ring announcer said that when he first started out it’d take 30 minutes announcing all persons related to the match including the ringside physicians, managers, etc. It just took the crowd out of the fight. My point, thank god for youtube.
Thank you
Thanks. The intros were waay too long. Especially for the moderator, good god.
I love how much sweat is coming out of the students asking the questions.
How u can see sweat
"On this issue, time is of the essence" after a 10 minute into of the moderator.
Great and interesting dialogue! love to see such interactions.
After that into I know more about this moderator than my sister
Why it is so fucking hard for people understand that asking questions does not mean making commentary.
I will tolerate any lifestyle that promotes love without a hint of evil mentioned in their book or teachings, where every human is valued .
Buddhism,Jainism,Sikhism welcomes you
@Youhan Van dam You are welcome in Dharmic religions feel free ✌
@@ssm7593 bullshit.
Then you blind yourself to the reality of what you and we all are.
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
I was half-disappointed at the beginning of the video at the realization that it may not be a contentious, sparks-flying type of debate. Then I was deeply more satisfied by this more congenial meeting and exploration of subjects that are only possible in such a demeanor. Deeply satisfying and engaging.
Also the host is kind of a fox.
Haha, the only time I've heard the words "check your privilege" used correctly.
"There is no tension between free speech and freedom of religion. If your free exercise of religion requires that I follow your precepts, that's not freedom of religion. That's theocracy." - Sam Harris
@Subarashii Ningen you don't understand free speech, telling people to kill people or to kill themselves falls under hate speech not freedom of speech, you seem like a smart fella just your point was dumb
@Subarashii Ningen Covid kills 0.2% of those inflected. That is a pandemic.
Islamists form 20% of Muslims (by vote count).
Do your maths.
You can't argue about freedom while saying something is hate speech...
@Subarashii Ningen no it doesnt because no one is forced.. force is the key. Thats why it becomes a theocracy
When did this talk take place? I hate this strange "ahistoric" custom of uploading videos without this info.
I totally agree. All debates of this sort should have their date of occurrence if only to put them into context
2015
Two weeks before Islam and the Future of Tolerance was released
It literally says the date in the description
@@sarshad6798 You're missing the point. That date is the upload date. As with all youtube videos the upload date may or may not be the date the event happened. In this case it appears to be the same date, but it's not obvious.
Great to see the power of dialogue in action.
This was great. Great speakers, great moderator, and civil and intelligent audience. We need open conversation.
What an excellent talk. Thanks to everyone that brought this talk to the public.
LOL @45:22 pause it and think about the different levels of attentiveness.
+Mephides HAHA...I love people. Always pointing out a moment in time that we can all either relate to or laugh at!!
+Mephides "Are spiders usually that big?"
+Mephides Oh this is great.
+Mephides good catch!
+Mephides Haha! Perfect.
One of the best debates about this difficult subject that I have ever listen too - To Me Maajid is a heroic Character willing to challenge extremist views from the left and right and often brilliantly articulating for people of all cultures that delicate space between culture ,religion and belief .
Maajid as soon as your ready to start your political career Im ready to vote !
I wish more people of character of all faiths had the courage to challenge the extremists in their respective religion as Maajid does.
I think Maajid's Voldemort analogy was spot on.
@Full Natty Vegan He's incredibly disingenuous. If you actually listen to him in detail for an extended period of time (he has a radio show in the UK) it becomes clear that he hopes to achieve via western democracy over the natural course of time what his violent counterparts desire to force through via violent intimidation over a lesser period. He realises demographics and the culture are on his side. It's just a matter of time.
@Sophie Wright He certainly is. Unfortunately, he's been embraced by the establishment as a legitimate figure, when all it takes is a few hours of listening to his arguments, and some considerable reading between the lines, to realise that he's a very dangerous man.
@Full Natty Vegan you must be crazy to think that.
What do you know about him?
He's abused my lots of Muslims and attacked and accused as not being s real Muslim. I bet you are just racist.
@@raminybhatti5740 you're sick and you're the dangerous one and I can read between your lines.
@Sophie Wright you're fake
great talk but to say you have a Muslim child is ridiculous. it's like saying you have a republican or democratic child. Religion is the ball and chain on society. Sad but true.
hmmm.... religion is not an issue. Muslim isn't a religion. thats the issue. If there are no religions, I bet there will be even more chaos. As you can see now, all those SWJs
Melody Yan I would second that.
CraigRattleHead false I am Christian and if I going to a country who does not Christian I will keep my faith but if I cannot practice my faith because there no churches and Islam is the only abrahamic faith I will going with the veil.😲😢as long the Islam does not practice hate. It is better to live with faith that none at all.
@@JudithSanchez-ht6jn explain the nun attire then? They do wear veils too and have been for time immemorial?
“The fanatical atheists are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who - in their grudge against traditional religion as the ‘opium of the masses’ - cannot hear the music of the spheres.”-Albert Einstein.
1:12 Sam: "Oh shit, better put my glass like Maajid's and Juliette's"... I dont know why that is so funny to me xD
Hahahhahah, and while that lady was droning on too.
i think he just realised there was a closer place to put the glass.
Hahaha... I noticed it just now..
what akram said
Sam Harris is a pillar of modern day intellectualism, what a clear speaking man with a great mind.
How is Sam so calm all the time.
He is a mindfulness practitioner
People are Waking Up with Sam Harris that's why he seems so calm all the time.
Sam's patience and restraint are monumental.He has realised that he can no longer waste his time having debates with people who are enamored with fictional books and their ideas or indoctrinated through an accident of birth.
He is taking what I call the"Happy Wife - Happy Life" approach.
He knows he is dealing with someone who holds irrational ideas but he cares about the relationship and is willing to see it through for better or for worse.
He will need therapy.Mainly to get the teeth marks out of his tongue.
But seriously,Sam is taking a lot of heat because he truly cares about people.
Anyone of significant intellect who enjoys philosophy dreams of being able to pursue an idea and see it come to fruition.
I think he's just taking the approach of wisdom, this is a time for grappling with a truly difficult and complex issue and truth seeking conversation is what is most beneficial at this moment or any moment for that matter.
@Taha Hagar no he is not..
Not only saw the heads off journalist and aide workers but CHILDREN TOO!!
Majjid and Harris are 2 of my heroes. God bless you both.
25 minutes in and they haven't really started yet. The moderator is just now asking the first question.
Why is there not like 47397457834 million views on this? Seriously.....These men are brilliant.
I guess because thinking takes efforts. Dog , cats, and cute baby videos don't...
John Texas well, if each person watched it a few million times, we could probably get there!! 😂
No they are not brilliant - brilliance is in debates not in just one point of view. They should discuss why these people are radicalized.
@@seconemarketing why do you think they’re radicalized
Brilliant in which way?
That intro was painful...
I love the cop lurking in the background during the Q&A just trying to gleam some insight
"The UK is a net exporter of terrorism!" Quote: Maajid Nawaz. And our Political Class consider that they have done nothing wrong in importing millions of Moslems into the United Kingdom?!?! Maajid did also appear with Douglas Murray: I think in an Oxford Union, or an international debate. Sorry, I'm so unreliable: I had a major cardiac arrest in 2008, whilst writing up a doctorate on Death!!! It left me with a modicum of brain damage.
At what timestamp does Maajid state this in the video?
@@philipbannor3281 Philip; I think it is in a different CZcams post, shared with Douglas Murray. I had listened to it just beforehand, which is why my damaged brain remembered it, and I was able to quote it directly.
@@Mark_Dyer1 Thanks for the response - but do you mean that Maajid also did a video with Douglas Murray at some point in which he said this, or that Mr Murray said this in one of his videos? In either case, can you remember which one?
@@philipbannor3281 Try 09:20 onwards......he actually says, "Britain is a net exporter of extremism":. I had misquoted him: although I think the implication is the same. Sorry, I'm so unreliable: I had a major cardiac arrest in 2008, whilst writing up a doctorate on Death!!! It left me with a modicum of brain-damage.
@@Mark_Dyer1 Again - thanks very much for the response. Yes, he does say that - although I wonder where he gets this information from. Don't worry about the small mistake - we all make them! :)
ayaan should've been up there...
These moron are not knowledgeable on Islam
Ahh the beauty of freedom of speech
Beauty of islamic shariah
@@TawheedPromoter stoning women?
@@Peter-dr9ch For what ?
@@TawheedPromoter does that matter?
@@Peter-dr9ch yup
More people like this Muslim speaker need to speak out.
Their is not. He is not a true muslim
"It's an honor to be here at Harvard"
"At the center of every great disaster, there's a Harvard man" -Sowell
What a great conversation. I will need to read the book.
Islam and tolerance are antonyms
Just like Hinduism and Animal Pisss are Synonyms...
Sams explanations are really helpful and important for me, im a much nicer person in my own mind now because of meditation lessons and my new understanding of the freedom of the will and hes just fantastic, i can truely judge it allgodz
Excellent discussion!
czcams.com/video/1_OBwlCWqbc/video.html
Let this be the beginning for peace ✌️
When you believe in a set of laws decreed by your God which stand morally above all other creeds in the eyes of that faith's followers, it is virtually impossible that you will you will be able coexist with people who do not share your set of values; as they are ultimately immoral at worst or unpleasant at best. People are very tribal & if they see others as different from themselves they will treat them differently. Religions are one of - if not the - most divisive forces on Earth. Very few people have the presence of mind, rationalism and self awareness to not succumb to this.
Well if you actually are passioned about something faith comes by itself ! and when you decide to study religion you will come up with a rational conclusion that is based on knowledge not on a subjective view of the world !
Ramzi Chouk
When you're passioned, the chances are that your body is being overwhelmed by emotions. Such moments rarely result in rationality. The only rational statement a human can make is that we are irrational most of the time.
poiutrew
no ! you are convincing yourself that you are irrational and it becomes your reality ! what do you study ? what's your job ?
poiutrew True. Overcoming this mindset you so well describe is like having to struggle against a very crippling form of imbecility.
poiutrew Religions? What about secular ideologies like Marxism? I am an atheist. I will start my criticism with myself first, and expand that to my family, and then my community, and then to my secular ideology long before I slap labels on the irrational beliefs of others. No religious chaos comes close to what atheistic political movements have wrought upon or recent past.
2 guys just talking it out. Wish more of this could happen
Thanks 🙏
Sam had a slight Pavlovian response to wine at around 38:32. Funny. Great dialogue by the way.
Watched that again and fucking pissed my pants laughing..his brain was like "wine, wine, wine wine wine, *sluuurrp* wine, wiiiine, just wait, meditate.."
This is how two descent educated men discuss the most fragile issues. Amazing...
Bro do check videos in my playlist
About shariah
two. lass acts and gentlemen in one place, what a pleasure it would have to have been there
Woow this men on the right.. 👏🏼👏🏼 he gets it!.. so many people in europe think the same like him. This is what we are talking about👍
Absolutely great. I'd like to read their book. I've criticized Maajid in the past but I really respect his commitment to free speech, to speaking with those who disagree, etc
I’d be interested to hear a brief overview of your particular critique of Maajid.
Right Millennial
I have found in many debates when people's ideas are shown to be not correct or challenged it can go two ways.1)If you don't have a really good reply or defence one starts to bring up the past or just embarrassment followed by bitterness.Thus shutting down dialog. Most important is the delivery of the critique that opens dialog
2)Who is best prepared to go to debate
Reminds me of a debate I went to in my toastmasters class and we at the day of debate were informed that we were to take the opposite side and defend it .
Goes to show you see both sides
I hope this makes sense
How can Islam be reformed when it is based on the Koran?
Patrick Truchon The interpretation/understanding of the Quran is what needs to be reformed not Islam itself .
haris haneef : You can’t “reinterpret” what is very clear and supposedly the direct word of God.
“Kill those who won’t submit to Islam” ... you can’t “reform” that, you have to destroy it through whatever means necessary.
Nathan Cirillo lol dude which part of the Quran is that ? Kill those who won’t submit ? 😆The Quran has been interpreted in a variety of ways for centuries . Do us a favor and don’t write about things you don’t know .
haris haneef : Search “Sword Verses”.
Quran 2:191 “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter... and fight them until fitnah is no more, and religion is for Allah.”
Why don’t you tell Wikipedia to not write about things they don’t know about?
I feel so sorry for you.
It’s ok. Lots of Muslims leave Islam and love being free of it.
Check out Apostate Prophet and One Godless Woman.
I suppose they don’t understand Islam either?
@@freecitizen2760 : Lol so you study quran of off Wikipedia. Well that explains why you have no clue about what you are writing here. Every muslim knows about this verse but if you had a good look at the verse, you would notice that it says " drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter" . Anyone with a little grey matter in their head can see that the commandment to fight is against those who drove the believers out and persecuted them for their beliefs. We get a full picture of the context if other verses related to this verse are studied. Your cherry picking of this verse and misinterpreting it actually proves my point that reinterpretation of the Quran is the way to reform Islam from ludicrous and extremist interpretations like yours.
I loved the last questioner's remark "no pressure" before speaking. Very funny.
Amazingly constructive conversation, that itself is refreshing regardless of faith or lack therof.
Why
Sam does not even believe in freewill
Why these guys not debate muslim appologists instead of talking to themselves
@@TawheedPromoter Why obfuscate about Sam's thought's on free will? He calls it an illusion in the circumstantial sense - meaning every decision you make has actually been influenced by preceding causes and is not really an independent will that arose in that moment of time. A perfectly rational philosophical position. He does not advocate that since free will is an illusion, individual freedoms should be subverted. That is not what he is saying. Also, Sam has indeed beefed with apologists before.
I luv absolutely luv Majid. Hats off to him for what he has been through and came so far. Am Punjabi & English mix and i have been listening to him back from UK since i was introduced to one of his video. It takes a lot of guts and bravery to be who he is today and the fact is actions. Very articulate, sharp, grown mindset. Luv him
I wasn’t even aware of him until I caught him on LBC. I was instantly impressed.
Do check videos in my playlist on shariah
He owned this conversation
One of the best talks on the subject that I've heard so far.
There's "food for thought" - but THIS to me was an intellectual feast. I loved the blending of opposing ideals - in PEACE (an Atheist and a Practicing Muslim collaborating after being on opposing sides of a debate, and publishing a book together - Bravo!!) That's broad/ open mindedness & intellectual minds at their best. I have been watching a lot of Pakistani dramas, and find some of their religious laws quite disturbing & backward, but it is good to see that there are movements to change that trend and I wish such liberal Muslims all the very best in their quest. As a born & practicing Zoroastrian, I wish only that Muslims & Christians would keep their religious doctrines from imposing or clashing with other beliefs, and try to co exist in peace - After all, we ARE all in this together, and the events of 2020 are starting to prompt us humans to either cooperate, unite, and work together, or perish.
23:02 "Check their privilege" lol straight up nailed it. That whole segment was amazing to listen too.
He illegitamized their claim only on the basis that they were white and privileged. Instead of arguing rationally for why he is not an "uncle Tom", as he should have, he instead dismissed it because of the backgrounds of the accusers. This is fundementally wrong, the legitimacy of opinions are not dependent on the identity of their thinker.
This is a very interesting conversation. I was very positively surprised by Maajid's arguments, mainly because i don't think i have seen any muslim be this logical before.
I promise you if Maajid came out as an atheist today it wouldn’t lose him any Muslim support at all.
I don't know about him. He seems too slick to be trusted all the way. Smooth talker, though.
@@OrtegaSeason you underestimate fundamentalists.
@@sir_humpy i got the same feeling
Years and years ago the poet John Ciardi wrote in his column in The Saturday Review of Literature that "tolerance" was not something to wish for or achieve, because it does not require empathy and appreciation with and for what one might just choose to "tolerate." This video gets beyond simple "tolerance" and, I think, puts us on the track Ciardi would have desired. Thanks.
Fantastic discussion! I learned a heck of a lot!
lie
@@showmercytoothers4059 You should listen to the vid, too. You might actually learn something.
What an enlightening conversation
"what's the problem with not being able to name a problem? well there's two problems here."
Thanks for fixing the sound, I went through the agonizing faulty audio in the previous video... BUT didn't you know that you could have fixed the audio in the last video without taking it off? :) There's an option on CZcams to do it - right here in video management... :) Not one Harvard student knew this? :) Not one? :)
Great debate! Thank you for opening the conversation about topics like this!
This is brilliant.
So enjoyable listening to Maajid's intonation, persuasion, logic, and wit.
Do check my playlist on shariah as it would not be fair if u only watch anti muslim content
@@TawheedPromoter why is telling the truth “anti-Muslim”?
Wow. Maajid's answer to the last question was top notch.
The Voldemort effect causing a rise of right wing populism is exactly what I am observing in Germany.
As a german I can't agree more. It puzzles me how people rightfully reject national facism but are apologist when it comes to islamic facism. This vacuum was filled by right wing populism. Both are a thread to the free pluralistic secular humanistic society we want to have.
Across Europe sadly
Ditto UK unfortunately
This is not a problem for those who want to preserve the culture of their people, its self defense and lets hope the movement grows.
@@ahm512
Is the violence in the Qur'an also a result of western intervention?
What did sam say that massjid and ayaan hirsi ali have written together?
Sam is right, you cant criticize Islam without backlash. What about Zionism then?
You can criticize Islam, but you must be ready to prove your point & admit to the areas where you're ignorant.
Otherwise you're insincere, which'll lead any rational person to think you an agitator who just wants to be insulting & thats when you get a similar backlash coming your way.
At the same time one must debate the issue with respected & highly regarded Islamic forefront scholars, not an 1/2 wit Imam of your choosing.
Only then is it a respectable exchange & not a stupid bashing that invites its own mirror backlash. Its about manners my friend, no more.
@SDD41 so when did you separate from your head ?
@@showmercytoothers4059, you should ask that question to the Charlie hebdo journalists... No, wait, they are DEAD.
criticizing jews is illegal
Criticising Islam or Zionism can be done but in good faith without insult but based on factual evidence..
You cant simply spew blanket statement that would either stir hatred and violence from within the groups or towards the groups..
Maajid has merely changed his coat, but not his cloth.
@vial.of.photons, the thing is we don't know how many layers there are in him. We just see the one "reformed" after the prison ordeal. Do you have proof that he doesn't maintain his old contacts and help them in any way under the smokescreen of his new public liberal-muslim image.
What a beautifully insightful conversation this was
Excellent... I will say simply. Listening
A fascinating discussion. A little irritation though was that Juliette Kayymen made it clear for the audience to make brief and clear questions. Not one questioner did this and instead we had longwinded preambles to their questions. Having watched countless debates over the years, why is it that so few people grasp the appeal for brevity?
It's about time Muslims start having a conversation about their religion.
really ?! and ....they don't ?
or they don't until or unless they start accepting words of wisdom and civilization from your grey philosopher-king Sam and white god-emperor in Washington, London, Paris ?
Ignorant to assume that it hasn't been happening. The sad fact is that most people live in their own bubbles and don't pay attention to discussions happening elsewhere in other lands in different languages. Just because you haven't heard them doesn't mean they're not occurring
I love how Majid sidestepped the regressive Muslims are victims narrative at 1:14:05 and diffused her agenda by discussing bigotry across the board including anti-semitism.
I found this video 5 years too late. I agree with Maajid1:05:00 on focusing on the fundamentalism instead of a cartoon.
Did I really just watch an hour and twenty minutes holding a speaker like a cell phone to find this as my next video?
czcams.com/video/1_OBwlCWqbc/video.html
Maajad makes me question my own sexuality
+Evan S He'd probably make you question your spelling too.
ha! Oops.
+Evan S ha yes, he's super handsome and intelligent, and being a baldy I'm dead jealous of his hair, it's a work of art
+patrick feehan lol that made me laugh. Ty for that.
+Evan S Beautiful RP Accent + Clothes = Swoon!
Brilliant.. we need more of this type of conversation.
Couldn't agree more.
Answer is deeprooted in following question - can you have this conversation in any Islamic country or Middle East?
Great mates and historical figures. Listened to all of this twice, got so many answers but one; Where does Maajid get his great fashion from?
And he preens like there's no tomorrow. Just kidding, he's actually a very nice man.
Voices of reason! Thank you Sam Harris and Maajid Nawaz for starting this dialogue. Finally a framing of this problem that makes sense and sane ideas about the shape of a solution.
It still makes me wonder, when push comes to shove, it must be difficult to check your beliefs at the door when Sam says mohammed was a conquering warlord and Maajid thinks he was a prophet
Muhammad is an extreme case of a narcissistic personality!
@@1354pj he told people not to draw him so that no one would worship him, how narcissistic.
@@alnotbiggaytho7124 narsissism deals with life one leads when alive ..they don't care what happens after they are gone. So concentrate on his life and see
@@ahm512 yes, there are many examples... Christ,Buddha,mahavir,not to mention the sages of India who have given tremendous wisdom most of which is still applicable in today's age, Gandhi,Hitler,..list is endless...sadguru,mother Teresa,srj Sri Ravi Shankar. Nothing can be a monopoly of just one !
@@ahm512 Do you hear yourself? If your religion has taught you to believe that Buddha was a failure because he did not conquer lands, your religion is a religion that glorifies violence.
harvard audio tech must have had the day off :) and this was the "fixed sound"
Its a long way till we can have such open conversations in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan et. I hope to see that in my lifetime
Does it really bother anyone else that people can't just ask a question during Q&A? There is almost always some crazy preamble that has more to do with the questioner trying to make themselves seem intelligent than trying to get an answer to a question.