WP Suspension Is Now Better Than KYB
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- čas přidán 10. 04. 2024
- Comparing the new WP suspension on the 2024 KTM/Husqvarna bikes to the KYB suspension you get on Sherco and Beta race edition bikes. KYB is widely considered the best suspension you can get off the showroom floor but I feel the new suspension from WP is better.
* Please note I will not discuss locations publicly in the comments section.
/ pnwenduro
/ pnwenduro - Auta a dopravní prostředky
As someone coming from a 2023 yz250x to a 24 TE300, I absolutely love the new WP suspension and it really surprised me.
Haven’t even played with a clicker yet.
Your new 300 Pro is a sweet ride
So lucky to have that riding area
Absolutely!
Yupp! Im from the same area and its offroading and dirtbiking heaven. We have every kind of conditions imaginable.
Lov your commentary:). Enjoy your weekend
21’ beta 350Race with KYB to a 24’ KTM 300XCW HE it’s a drastic improvement for me. I raced the same spot on both bikes and the WP felt much better during both slow and fast sections.
I’ve found 13/47 gearing on the 2024 TE300 to be the sweet spot. Still revs out nicely, but pulls 2 & 3rd better in the technical stuff. The 47 rear fits with the stock chain.
I think for the stuff you ride that stock suspension is perfect. For Michigan riding though i had to have my pro sprung and revalved for the faster stuff. With that being said i love this bike more and more every time i ride it. Coming off my FX with KYB is the only thing I like better about the Yami over this new pro. Great video as always. 🤙
Thanks!
Once mine was broken in I bumped the compression up 3 clicks and it's perfect. I had a set of showas all pimped out by racetech and it was ass compared to my cc wp
I'm coming off a 22 450fx to a 24 TE300pro. great suspension on both. My issue with changing is more to do with the weight, stalling, and ergonomics of the FX. Right when i first sat on the Pro, it has superior ergonomics. I only have 1 ride on the pro, loving it so far, likes lower rpm for sure. Better all round enduro bike IMO. The FX is fun on faster trails. Splitting hairs on which suspension is better! FX gobbles up the big hits well, the pro gobbles up the smaller chop better. The FX feels more planted and bounces less, the Pro is way easier to maneuver. I do more single track, hard enduro, goat trails so the Pro is a better fit for me, but the FX was fun and fast.
Your video footage is amazing !!!! 🤩
What are you using and how is it mounted?
You can hear your voice perfectly too !
GoPro Hero 12 with the media mod on a ProShot chin mount. Filming at 4K 60 fps superview.
For general trail riding and enduro i would agree that the new wp is better but when it comes to ripping out in the desert over whoops and sand the kyb is still my go to. Wp is king of slow to mid speed and kyb for high speed. I also feel like cornering is better with the kyb. But I have not rode on the new wp set up for me. My comparison is with having been on tuned kyb for some time
My Aussie version 22 model husky is also amazing...have do desire to try improve it as I cant pick a downfall bar say spring rates for heavy guys but im light so all is sweet
I agree, my 24 Pro, out of the box is about as good as it gets. Some still say the SSS KYB is the best, well make room for the WP. By far better than the KYB. My Yamaha will be for sale soon.
Good to hear feedback from someone with the new WP and SSS KYB setups. Thanks for sharing.
Thats such a good bike all around, great choice!
Tried the 24 Beta Race 300 KYB against the 24 WP XCW - the WP XCW was more compliant and could take the pounding better (being more stable), both stock suspensions were nice and when going through the real nasty rocky chop is where the WP had the advantage. Regardless I always want more so going with the Slavens Lucky System. Have not been on a YZ in a while so I can't compare those.
I also like WP coming from a KYB guy, you aint wrong!
That's a bold claim. Have ridden a 2024 KTM Hard Enduro and I wouldn't say that I was impressed with the suspension, but hopefully they found a new setting that works better. Stock WP has been crap for years, 6500 and up is where they start to function as you expect, so im glad that stock finally have what it takes. Expecting buyers to invest in their suspension when they just bought a new bike isn't really consumer friendly.
first real comment ive read. I own a '24 250XC.. at first youre pumped on the feel until time sinks in and you go back and ride your YZ or KYB's and buyers remose sinks in
Never heard a single person or review say Sherco KYB is the best offroad setup....ever. But there are dozens one could site that say the Yamaha SSS KYB are the best. And after riding a few different bikes I also agree the Yamaha SSS KYB suspension is the best stock offroad suspension.
People say KYB in general is the best, not Sherco specific. Same suspension, different valving on different brands.
Sprung and valved for your riding and weight it's hard to beat kyb.
Be awesome if the new huskies have good stuff. I'd like a 350 someday. Gonna have to wear out my 2 shercos and kx first though.
@@PNWEnduro I would disagree on this point. When people say KYB is the best they are usually referring to the Yamaha SSS setup which has Yamaha specific valving. Not just the shim stack but the pistons as well. Other manufactures apparently cannot use this same setup even though they are using KYB components. Someone said that the proprietary Yamaha specs are actually patented since they were developed by Yamaha itself. So a better comparison would be the 2024 WP going head to head with a 2024 Yamaha off-road bike.
True, when people say KYB are best, they are talking about SS like you would find on the newer WR250F or YZ250X. The KYB on Beta/Sherco are not SS and do not seem to be on the same level from the feedback I've seen.
@@ShawnBlais I've tried the YZ250X and YZ250FX, suspension was good but did not blow me away. Yamaha do have their own specs other brands can't use.
How well does it do hitting braking bumps at 35 mph and railing corners. Obviously it's good at singletrack.
I couldn't agree with you more. I have the new 2024 KTM XC-W Hardenduro (Coming off the 2023 KTM 300 XC-W) and the new fork is simply amazing and so confidence inspiring.
I have to add that I've had my bike in the Oregon coast range, to the central high desert fast trails and whoops. The new fork eats it all so well. I contested my riding buddies (8 total), 1 Beta, 2 KTM's (Air Forks) , 1 GasGas, 3 Yamahas (All tuned suspensions at different levels and cost) and 1, 2023 Husky, one day to all ride a section of fairly high speed whoops with a rocky hill clime immediately after and back. My 2024 HARDENDURO was the favorite hands down. took some of them a bit to get over the fact it was a 2stroke from their four strokes though.🤣
That's a good comparison. I think WP still has a bad reputation with some people from the 4CS days, that stuff was not great but it's also 10 years ago now. They nailed it on the new forks.
@@PNWEnduro Lets hope they don't go changing it much for some "KTM experimental" reason.😬...😂
Are you in the TSforest? Trail name?
@@herby3333 See the video description.
Also, great looking bike by the way. Best looking stock bike in my opinion
Love the suspension on these 24s! Side note : do you wear any body protectors?
Troy Lee chest protector, CTI custom knee braces.
Bike looks like it works great 👍🏻
The WP suspension is definitely better at technical and slower sections but not as good as the KYB once the pace picks up. I picked up my TE 300 pro in October and changed Springs and got the clickers dialed in better than I ever could on my GasGas with KYB's. When the pace picks up though I have more confidence and front end feels more planted with the GasGas but the Husky blows it away in the technical stuff
Hey! I just got a TE300 last week. Do you mostly ride it in the green map? And do you ever switch? Love the videos. I’m also a PNW rider!
I use both maps. Next weeks video will talk about map switches.
It’s probably just way softer. KYB’s are generally set for faster riders and racing, all the riding you do is very slow and technical which suits soft suspension. Trying riding that WP set up on anything remotely quick and the bike would be in a knot. As always, it’s horses for courses.
KYB forks have been valved for me and my terrain by the most reputable tuner in our area.
Do you happen to know how many clicks you are out on compression? I haven't touched my clickers either and it feels good ,the dealer had them set 17 clicks out.
I have not checked. Dealers generally set them up in the middle so 17 sounds about right.
I have a 2022 Sherco SEF 250 Factory and I was pretty disappointed with the stock KYB shock. The valving was almost OK, but they come with a nerfed compression adjuster with a stiff shim stack and fake (non-functional) high speed adjustability. The result for me was the rear end would effectively hydraulically lock when the main valving couldn't flow enough oil and the high speed valving couldn't flow enough oil. I had a pretty rough high-side when it kicked me sideways during my second ride.
Installing Racetech valving and a Lainer compression adjuster made it incredibly nice.
Wondering what in the adjuster makes you come to the conclusion that its fake high speed adjustment? Given the kyb adjuster on yamahas and the fact the spring is significantly stiffer than on wp shocks? The wp of all the adjusters is known do nothing valve lol
@@lukekelly5115 the stock Sherco adjuster doesn't have the spring that connects the red piece you turn in and out to the shim stack on the adjuster. The spring preload on the adjuster's shim stack is what changes the high speed compression damping. Without it the adjuster cannot adjust high speed damping.
@@Fred-mv8fx so your saying there's no spring in there at all?
@@lukekelly5115 that's right, there's nothing. Besides that the red adjustment collar is too long to add just a spring without buying a new KYB adjuster.
A friend mentioned that his Beta shock was the same way.
@@Fred-mv8fx it probably adjusts it with bleed im sure the shock body is virtually the same as yamaha and can just plop one in for not much
I think the Sherco KYBs leave a lot to be desired - they’re not as good as the Yamaha SSS KYBs. So I’d disagree that the Sherco KYBs were ever “the best stock suspension” - that goes to Yamaha KYB. But yeah, these new CC WP forks really are amazing and IMO take the crown.
hey WA. Are the SSS different qulaity internals than the sherco kyb's....not just diff valuing, (also wondering about beta as I have one, its not currently great for my riding. Thanks!
@WASemiHradEnduro I was more referring to KYB in general being considered the best. On my 2021 Sherco it was okay, on the 2023 the forks were awful now after a revalve they are just okay. On the YZ250X I was not overly impressed with the KYB either.
It all depends on the terrain you’re riding. I’ve had four WR 450’s and the KYB suspension on all of them was too harsh for technical enduro riding. Baja style, fast WFO motocross was great but anything less than that and nope, too stiff.
Everyone bangs on how good the KYB are but are way to stiff for anything other than fast cross country racing and even then they need re valving, I have never ridden with KYB straight out of the box that feels good…WP had it right years ago with the CC forks but then went of the rails with the 4cs fork disaster, now back with the CC suspension you can’t go wrong
@@peskymcnuggets3357 Yeah, WP still has a bad reputation for the 4CS but that was 10 years ago! A lot of us find the KYB stiff for our local trails.
How heavy are you
I think this is the best bike on the market. Only thing that sucks about it is that gas tank design
I'm not convinced the fuel tank is all that bad. Tests show you can get almost all the fuel out of the tank before it runs out. Even on the old tanks, you would sometimes have to lay the bike down to get the remaining fuel out of the right side. Taco Moto has a "fix" coming out but it's a lot of money just to access a tiny bit of remaining fuel. If I'm riding in the mountains, I'm packing some extra fuel regardless.
Can cofirm; the new WP closed cartidge is legit. I'm running a KTM 300 Hard Enduro and I too have not touched a clicker. I could could probably use a one spring rate stiffer in the shock. Otherwise, believe the hype.
How do you feel about the KTM air shocks?
Not a fan, had two bikes with them. No matter what you do to them, they are never as plush as a spring fork and you can't seem to eliminate the stiction at the top of the stroke.
The Kyb suspension on Yamahas are valved differently than other bikes with Kyb and that is why they work better.
As a suspension tuner I agree 100%
Kyb is good but performs differently on various brands of bikes.
As for fit and finish WP uses better higher quality parts, piston holders, etc. the KYB has the kashima finish on cartridge which is nice.
Also every year and manufacturer specs how there KYB works, same as the new WP fork is different per bike.
So don’t assume it’s going to be the best just because of the name.
Having it custom valved to unlock the potential is key
Both brands can be great with the proper tune. It’s seems more often the valving on KYB be it on Beta, Sherco or whatever is set up too stiff while a lot of people are happy with the stock valving on the new WP without having to spend more money.
Agreed, Coming off a Beta with KYB, spung, valved, etc, onto stock WP, I can't tell much difference, I think KYB is overrated, unless it's a Yamaha set up, I think they are the only company that does KYB right imho.
Yamaha has KYB specs other company's are not allowed to use.
@@PNWEnduro Yep, if you want the good KYB buy a Yami 👌
Hero dirt!
It’s not that Sherco’s KYBs were that good, it was just better than the crap WP put on KTMs for the last decade. The magic though was that a good shop could make the Sherco KYBs incredible for $300, not a $1200 cartridge like so many Austrian owners got suckered into.
Nice to see the KTM Sherco clone finally get a proper setup. lol Closed cartridge sus, NO kicker, Electric Power valve. All they need now is some decent Blue graphics lol
LOL. Sherco clone? Vastly different chassis, carb vs TBI. Neither have had kick start for several years now.
@@PNWEnduro Yea as I mentioned KTM followed with said changes to there bikes.
@@PNWEnduro Pretty much why for years KTM factory riders have been using closed cartridge forks and some even with KYB internals. I personally cant wait to tryout the new WP's.
Suspension Matters out of Australia has stated the new WP fork is a very similar design to the KYB and you can achieve the same level of performance, comfort and grip and as the KYB, whereas that would have been impossible with the previous generation's stock xplor fork.
You could get two identically built forks with different tunes (valving, float numbers, oil level, spring rate, etc...)and they'd be totally different.
Yamaha has been the gold standard when sending their bikes out with a valving setup to suite a broad range of riders.
The new WP fork's design allows the tuner to work their magic with valving alone. No extra parts required.
Edit: Based on the title of the video, pnwenduro is very happy with Husqvaranas stock valving and will only need to make clicker adjustments to fine tune, rather than sweeping valving changes. Great for PNWenduro. However, it's a bit of click-bait to claim the WP fork is better than the KYB. Sure, KTM/HUSQY have given its customers a flatform where they no loner 'need' to spend $$$ swapping out the internals of the fork to reach a level of performance they're happy with.
P.s. thanks for all the videos. I dont think ive ever seen so many trails that make me want to go to a place and ride them.
You think the stock setup is good, it can be so much better if Javier at Trailtech suspension got a hold of it. The magic carpet ride setup!
There is always room for improvement but in my experience revalving is only worthwhile if something is way off with the suspension to begin with. Paying $1200-2000 for an upgrade that I'll hardly notice is not worth it imo. (this is what is costs around here)
If you were deflecting with Sherco KYB, then you were setup way to soft...
Sherco/Beta setup for hard Enduro/slower/ soft ...
YZ250x SSS valving setup for more xcountry/ faster...
Beta KYB are stiff, set up for racing. My 2023 KYB were stiff when I got the bike and they were awful. They are now significantly better but still not close to the WP.
I’ve got a 23 yz250 and a 24 ktm 300 xc. The WP suspension blows kyb out of the water. Granted the yz has motocross valving I’ve ridden both on track and trail a good bit and I’d take the ktm any day for either
sure sure.
Camera is crisp
Any suspension is only as good as the settings that are in it, including KYB. Don’t forget euro KYB doesn’t have the same hardware or settings in them as a Yamaha but you can drop Yamaha guts straight in. That husky front end bobs up and down a lot. There is too much vertical bar movement to me. The wheel should ideally be moving mostly independently of the bars, the bars should not bob up and down so much. It’s good news the spiky feelings or overly mushy feeling of Xplor have gone though. You still never get me parting money for another Austrian bike though.
Ahh easy trail slow speed not much of a test. Compare on MX track with jumps, berms and speeds over 2nd gear. Yamaha's Speed Sensitive Suspension is awesome and works great on big hits. You do have to break in the springs though. There are also 2 different oil levels that are tunable using oil levels.
This bike is designed for enduro not track riding.
@@PNWEnduro your bike would do fine on a track, you would too. You were blitzing those rock gardens! I just ride practice days anymore, at 65 racing may be asking for trouble. MX tracks are a great way to build strength, the precision of enduro really helps on a track and you get a wide track with good dirt. If you're close to a track, you have a great area where you ride .
What type of terrain you're riding can make this very subjective.. although.. based on the movement of your bars & what you're describing you wish to see & feel 🤔
I recommend 1 click off on the rebound at the front & 2 clicks off on the rear, 1 click compression off on the rear= {if you're looking for less of a hunting/jaring/deflecting front end & minimal bucking bronco rear, "stably increase with slightly more suspension movement in the stroke front & rear" (based on average rider weight) = (I'm 275 lbs so you can see how this is such a subjective experience for everyone, I stopped trying to jump cars 25 yrs ago & started playing with the clickers on trashy surfaces, McNutt ect ect)
The new wp will lose up a lot. First 5hours i was like this stock setup is amazing. After 10hours it was at the suspension tech because it became way to soft. Fork was hanging to deep in the stroke especially for the Dutch sand out here. In your case it might be different. It is still a rather good suspension all around
Can i ask your weight? At 75kg mine still fine
@@double-oseven5725 80kg without gear
WP suspension is second to none. I've ridden a handful of bikes with different manufacturers and WP suspension when dialed in is simply the best in my honest and unbiased opinion.
The Sherco suspension not as good as the Yamaha KYB suspension
It's just different valving.
@@PNWEnduro Yes sir that's what's making it better just like when you put a golden valve in to a WP...
Unfortunately, even after a fork revalve, the KYB on my 300SEF doesn't compare to this stock WP setup.
@@PNWEnduro The new WP spring forks are a copy of the KYB forks that's why they so good. Also the main difference between the German and Japan's set up is the KTM hard at the beginning the stroke Japan's bikes are soft like it should. KTM dose that because they build the bike for racing. I love the WP on my 24 comes handy when I'm racing
13/47 Is what im running and works great. A few more rides and youll probably be wanting the TSP ERM. Totally worth the money
But WP is far less reliable (leaking/breaking) and production quality (shitty tolerances) is subpar compared to Showa/KYB.
I’ve not always been a WP fan, but apparently my experience is vastly different from yours with regards to quality and reliability. May not have been as good years ago, but it was never terrible in my experience. And in recent years it’s been quite good. But I do clean the seals every so often , change oil periodically, use proper spring rates for my weight, etc etc. Also, for stock forks with split rebound/compression I change oil at 30 hours instead of 60, because the “busy” side is taking a lot more abuse internally.
That is completly wrong. I am enduro tour guide, i literaly did thousands of hours of enduro. I can tell you wp (skf) seals and bushings last at least 5x than stock kyb on shercos. Maybe if you put skf seals on kyb it could be the same as wp but in stock they are not even close. Performance is different story but i am OK with soft wp setting in last models
You ride this bike faster.
Suspension is not holding me back. Feels good.
I noticed the same thing. When I saw him ride the 24 XCW it was like the two paired up perfectly. The Pro is even better, this guy can ride very efficiently and he's not even pushing it. Excellent rider and bike match here.
No it isn't.
Ok guys, the real reason the new WP forks feel like or out perform KYB's is because THEY ARE KYB's. Here's why, it's off patent already. A UTILITY patent is good for 20 years from the date of filing. When did the SSS forks come out? 2005. Which was most likely filed for patent in 2004.
Of course KTM will have their own valving which is catered to a more technical environment.
And think about this, when has WP ever come up with good suspension let alone great suspension. NEVER.
Eveen jarvis replace to kyb from wp because wp its shit and jarvis ride on hasqy and hasqy with wp and he prefer kyb kyb better than wp.
I think you are very lonely with this opinion
Disagree. Read some of the other comments.
Nope not even close. I have both and the kyb is far superior
I’ve ridden it all showa kyb wp etc. I prefer WP air forks the adjustability and ease of use is so much better and the hold up on huge jumps is just better never once bottomed out where both kyb and Showa have had some pretty bad bottoming out. 21 and up wp air forks are amazing.
Being a woods rider I'm not worried about huge jumps. I have, however, had air forks fail and collapse costing me a race.
@@PNWEnduro were they stock or had you had them worked on?
They were stock at the time of the failure. I eventually had both air fork bikes I've owned revalved.
@@PNWEnduro interesting I’ve never heard of bone stock air forks failing unless user error or rebuilds done by unqualified would be suspension builders. A common error is using wrong air pressure or neglecting checking air pressure and the other was bleeding the forks while the bike was not completely suspended in the air via a stand and the vacuum created caused a collapse.
kyb