VW ID Buzz with high battery degradation after just 6 months
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
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Chris from @BatteryLife has done similar degradation tests on his ID.3 and it's lost around 11% in 3 years. It took a big hit in the first year, around 5% and degradation has slowed since then
Yeah, I think that while trying to normalise the chart (using degradation/1000-cycles) is interesting, it’s highly unlikely (read definitely not the case) that the degradation will be linear. The hard work that people like Bjorn are doing to real-world test these batteries should be worth a fortune to vehicle manufacturers tbh.
the time is not relevant but the kilometers.
he had 50000km on his ID3 and for that 12% is a lot
@@tesla-spectre Chris also mentioned, he left the car overnight fully charged, for a few times ... thats also poison for the SOH, i guess.
@@Bud_Terence that is by far the worst you can do
Chris is not testing it properly IMO. The usable battery capacity from 100-0% in his ID.3 is about 54 kWh. In his first test however his result was nearly 58 kWh in the same range. I am pretty sure his first result is false and is influencing the degredation a lot.
There are a few institutions in Germany that do intensive research in the field of battery degradation (NMC so far), namely the TU Aachen ("Quantifying the state of the art of electric powertrains in battery electric vehicles: Range, efficiency, and lifetime from component to system level of the Volkswagen ID.3"). It looks like there is a rapid decline of a few percent in the first 6 month followed by a steady and very slow process in the years following. So Bjørn's findings are probably just normal, since the process will not continue at this rate.
I've always wondered if the initial degradation is real degradation or is it just calibration of the real capacity that can only be determined after a few charge/discharge cycles?
@@pixelbart It's probably chemical process that stabilizes with time.
If that the case, and VW knew why didn't they just reduce the total reported capacity to allow for this adjustment in the pack you are talking about? Why risk getting bad press with such a simple precausation!
bcs it is the same with every brand, good advertising. Teslas 100 are also only real 95 and a bit over 90 usable brand new@@showme360
We’ve got now 7000km done with our Buzz but I did not recognise any degradation until now. “Fingers crossed”. We’ve charged ~5000km with only 5kw over night until 70-80%. So if I see the “400km” at 100% everything is okay 😁🙏🏻😎
The nominal capacity is usually tested at 23C at 0.1C discharge
Degradation is always pretty high in the beginning, so 2% is not that big of a deal. But I heard from other MEB tests, that werent quite good. So pretty interesting to test an older MEB car, looking forward to it Bjorn.
My 2020 Zoe Ph2 had 9,8% degradation after 70.000km, CarScanner and Renault both had attested me the same numbers. According to GOM I could only drive something like 330km before empty and I could start to feel the degradation. Interestingly the way it manifested was that the consumption was higher than in the beginning. I could hypermile it and still couldn't achieve 11,0kWh/100km which I could when I got it new. The car was charged 50% of the time on DC, a few times on 11kW and Schuko, the rest on 22kW AC.
Truth be told, I saw a module in the CanZE app that showed minimally less voltage compared to others so I believe most of the degradation was due to a weaker module which pulled the whole pack down in health.
Cars with smaller batteries gets more cycles and will degrade faster. Considering the pack is 40kwh then it is cycled more than twice as much as a Tesla Model 3 LR. How much charge percentage did you do on a regular basis?
Æ har en 2019 mode l Zoe som ser ut for at den har tapt ganske mye på 90.000 km. Men så var det det med å kunne bevise det ovenfor leverandøren? kravet er jo 30%! og det rekker æ ikke før garantien går ut.'
Since it has 52kwh capacity, it is not a small battery
NMC batteries usually take 3-4% degradation in the first months of use, so the degradation seen in this video is totally correct for me 🤔
Yes, also my thought.
For example the koreans take that into account and actually eat a buffer to compensate for it. So you can see higher mileage Hyundais and Kias still with 100% SoH claimed 😀
One interessting Information concerning SOH (State of Health) or battery degradation
Every lithium Ion battery above 2 kWh which is sold at the european market from 18.08 onwards has to provide a diagnose service to calculate the so called SOCe (State of certified Energy). This value has to be read out by any standard not OEM specific diagnose tool. Otherwise these batteries cannot be marked with a „CE“ Label and thus are not able to be sold at the European market.
That's also true for LFP batteries and it's quite tricky to calculate for LFP batteries :/
@@visionmodernclassics3062LFP is a type of lithium ion battery.
LFP batteries are lithium ion batteries. Not sure that law affects traction batteries in EVs tho.
@@visionmodernclassics3062 LFP is a lithium ion battery. Getting a proper SoC, SoCe and SoH estimation for those is notoriously difficult though. Tesla solves this by demanding the user to regularly charge their battery back to 100% so they can recalibrate their function. If you don't do that, your SoC becomes a wild guess after charging and discharing a couple of times. Of course that's shitty from a customers perspective.
Getting a reliable measurement of the energy state of a LFP battery without a full charging cycle / customer hassle is a bitch.
Thank you for the vast amount of research done on EVs. You are providing actual driving condition tests that educate people in the market to purchase an EV.
2022 SKODA ENYAQ MEB
Maximum energy content of the traction battery :
75.05 Kwh @ Km 8624
75.00Kwh @ Km 24,446
Degradation is always the most in the first year, My SR+ lost the most the first and second year, and now is almost 2 years hovering stable @7% Degradation (4.5 years old @120k km)
lfp battery?
same here. 140K km 7%
Maybe companys should sell cars with kwh after 10.000km. 😅
@@apauma1No NMC
Car scanner shows/showed ~71.5kwh from new car till now (45000km). I have Id3 ProS. I think VW somehow "plays" with usable capacity
23 degrees in your cockpit with 6 degrees outside. That will not help your range 🙂
As I remember, the Degradation is high at the beginning, so I'm not surprised.
So much for the advertised 77 kWh net capacity...
@@bjornnyland nope, but generally the degradation is higher at the beginning.
Maybe it has to do with the buffer at the top. But I'm sure you will find out the real reason.
Basically the MEB 0-100% using only 72 kWh, below 0% you can still use 5 kWh in somecases. The most new cars are showing 72 kWh when they are new.@@bjornnyland
I did a test on my LFP model 3 by draining the battery until completely empty (contactor opened) and then charging it to 100%.
Teslamate told me that I added 58kwh or whatever it was
Which I worked out to be 94.7% soh which matched what the tesla service menu degradation test gave me of 95%.
how many km?
@@apauma1 about 25,000km. Late 2021 model
Bjorn, I did some test on mine 75d 2017 and I think there are so many kw lost in heating or cooling the battery alone, that even without AC, it's way out of correct measurement. The best way that works for me and is logical, is that you drive until the battery is flat 0% and then charge it. What goes in is the real battery capacity, the lost in heating or cooling KWH are included. If you drive in optimal speed in optimal conditions and flat surface you can get maximum of the charged capacity. Fast accelerations usually "eat's" these lost kwh. But you know that. I have lost over 1.5kwh of my 75D only because I restarted the MCU while driving twice. The car doesn't count them when I was driving and they never re-appear in Tessie. Need new MCU to recalculate the capacity I think. Keep the good job. Greetings from Bulgaria.
Interresting 👍 have you ever done a degradation test of a LFP battery car?
everyone says there is no degradation, but i've never seen proof. i would be interested to see it actually tested.
I have 6 months, 4500mi on my M3RWD LFP. Tessie is showing me at 2.2% degradation. I also live in a hot climate it’s been over 95 degrees here daily for the last 4 months.
I myself have a model 3 MIC from 2020 with 155.000 km on it, I just don't have the time and energy to do the test... I would be interesting to know the degradation...
Our Model YSR LFP MiC bought in February this Year shows actually 416km at 23,8tkm coming from 418km original. Half AC, half DC, driven mostly in very hot enviroment in Spain. We also have a Model S P90DL with 182tkm, 8,5% Degradation. Also half AC/DC. Not so bad, we think...
@@t3hpwninat0r I have one single data point, I drove a BYD Taxi with an early LFP pack and it registered 97% SOH at nearly 400,000 kms on the clock. It was an awful car to drive though.
My VW e-up 32.3kWh was charged always 15 to 50% for 10k km in 5 months. After that, the first 100% charge it delivered only 26kWh. Then after 3 times charging to 100% the capacity was back to 29.5kWh, similar as new.
So after 3 years 70k km with AC 2kW charging, and never parking above 50% SoC, no significant degradation :-)
All "measurements" done with GOM and the consumption from car display, at ~20°C battery temp.
Unbelievable, may be the battery has a defect.
The Ioniq of my wife is 6.5 years old and the car has the same range as on the first day. The gross battery buffer is very large, I think. So, the degradation has no effect til today.
Meanwhile my classic Ioniq is down to ~65% capacity despite normal use and 150k km, and Hyundai refuses to honor their warranty because the SOH% on them is basically fake.
@@ashton9699 Oh, that's not good to hear!
As I wrote already, my wife's Ioniq is in best condition and has a total range of about 265 km at 100% state of charge in summer.
The charging profile was: about 80% CCS and 20% AC. But the car was not often charged til 100%.
I have 11 % after 240 000 kms and 7 years with my i3...
I have a Toyota Proace EV 75kwh (Stellantis van) that has done 144k km, I can only get about 50-55kwh out of it. Want to test it Bjorn? I am located in Finland and could make the trip to Norway.
I used to be able to measure 55-56kwh on my ID3 and can now get about 53kwh. It has done 18000 miles. I measure just by driving a long stint and multiplying average consumption per mile by miles driven.
As I understand it, 58kwh includes the amount below 0% that can be accessed and possibly also a bit at the top. I've seen others with carscanner show that the total energy content at 100% varied for the same car. May be something to do with how it decides it has reached 100% when charging?
It's called battery management, and how good that is generally determines the life span of the battery.
Ithink the most critical part is the SOC.
charging between 10 to 60 percent is at least harmful. The biggest problem's are long time spans in high or low state of charges. And the temp is critical. You can see with Nissan leaf models.
nature always tries to balance things out. At high charge states, the difference potential between anode and cathode is greatest. Self-discharge could be massively minimized, but a slow compensation always takes place within the battery.
The higher the pressure, the faster.
A temperature management system that can heat and cool protects the battery enormously.
My ID5 was checked by Aviloo in summer after 10 month and 12.500 km. The result was 96 %
This is normal in some kinds of batteries, they lose a couple percent of their capacity in the first few dozen cycles and then degradation stagnates, Volkswagen should have unlocked a bit more of the buffer though so that the degradation wasn't noticeable.
We have an ID.3 with 100,000 kms, my estimates are 10% down in capacity in 3 years, mainly AC charging. Seems acceptable.
Used to be rule of thumb: 5% loss with the first 50.000km and then 1% for every further 50.000km. After 380.000km seems to work on my car
You drove 380k km in your EV? What EV is that?
@@DigiDriftZone 2013 Tesla Model S 85P+. Battery has 13% degradation with 2/3 DC (but mostly 50kW) and 1/3 AC (mostly 22kW).
@@moestrei That's pretty awesome, nice one! - have you got any plans to upgrade or are you happy with it for now? - it's a fantastic car.
@@DigiDriftZone The rest of the car has kept very well too. When on holidays I hire EVs from other brands. It was always disappointing and I have not found any car which I would consider a real 'upgrade'. Oh....I love my stalks and 2 screens with both nicely integrated and the big one in portrait. I love 22kW AC charging, Chademo and CCS charging and enough space in the frunk to put a full size spare tire in.I can sleep in the back (1.90m). Free lifetime SuC. Made out of aluminium, no rust. And it lasts mechanically too (apart from the rubber bushings). No other EV can match all this.
It would be nice to see such test done on a Kia eNiro. I do not actually see any distance loss after 54kkm in 18 months. 90% charging with max 10kW at home, mostly to 80%.
It's hard to estimate. Done 84 kkm ( Mm!) in a Hyundai Kona, and I still can't notice any degradation, but there must of course be some. Charging mostly 6 kW at home (9A, 238 V AC, 3 phases).
@@altoclef6688Kia, Hyundai and Chevy Bolt (based on the same technology) have some of the lowest battery degradation in the industry I've seen some people report as little as 4.2% degradation after 100,000 miles / 160K km
@@altoclef6688same experience here...our 2023 Kona ev we did 48,000km in 10 months and noticed no range loss, same kwh available in car scanner, etc., I suspect the concerns about charging to 100% are negligible due to the built in buffer as when your car stops the charge at 100% the battery actually is never at 100%, nor is it ever at 0% at the other end. I can only speak to Hyundai products though, our 2022 Ioniq5 has 23,000km on it and again we see no detectable range reduction or battery capacity degradation from new. We charge to 100% on AC charging quite frequently but of course the car does not sit there long....but again I believe the cars battery is never really at 100% SOC due to buffer size. It makes sense that a manufacturer would do this as the last thing they want is a battery replacement claim on warranty.
Just my opinion though...
Mike 🇨🇦
I habe e-niro, three years, almost 100 000km and see just minor degradation - 5% maximum
I have a plug in Volvo XC90 hybrid. When I first bought it, the usable KWh capacity of the battery was about 14.4 (as in how much I could use before it ran out of charge)
After about 18 months of use, where most days I almost totally drain the battery and charge it back up twice in a day, and putting about 40,000km of battery driven miles on it, the current battery capacity is 13.4 KWh (as in how much I can use before it runs out of charge).
It would seem that the ID Buzz losing 2% in just 6 months and 10,000km is a bit excessive.
I own nissan leaf 2 from 2018 I drove amost 200.000 km most on the higway from Strömstad to Oslo 5 days a week. Avrage speed 125 km/h charge 2 times a day from 5-10% to 100%. Now my leaf has 14% degredation.
Wow nice numbers. Have you had to do much maintenance?
I hate oval roundabouts! I found a few in italy and must say, dangerous for anyone who doesn't know the route, expecting it to be round.
Isnt this initial loss expected ?
I wouldn't expect it. I've had my model 3 for 2 years and seen virtually no degradation.
@@markeaton6734I thought fast charging to 100% caused more degradation. Do you mainly slow chargers or fast charge and to 80% or 100%.
Hi state of charge i think are the problem not slow or fast charging@@johnharvey1786
@@markeaton6734 RWD or AWD ?
@@tafl-9198 AWD so the ncm battery and I do mostly AC charge at home
What love to see more infos! Looking into buying a used ID.3 82kWh
My ID.4 2021/03 has 76t km now and CarScanner shows 67.050 Wh usable. It seems to me that the 77 kWh is a "net gross" capacity, and the BMS only uses 95% of this, so the starting point for usable capacity is somewhere around 73-74 kWh. If this is correct, I would have around 10% degradation.
I have the same on my Enyaq 80X after 24 months/50k km. 🙄
My -23 Enyaq RS coupe with the same battery will only charge to 69kWh after 13.000km
The max energy content figure has dropped from 75.800Wh to 73.030Wh.
As far as I can see, I have lost quite a bit in that short distance, at least 3000Wh.
A German CZcamsr (available also in english) has done a degradation test with his VW ID.3:
New, after one year and after two years (after 3 years?).
His Channel Battery Life.
Maybe it's the side effect of ealier sitting too long with 100% SOC.
Maybe they closed battery capacity from ID buzz away after ID Buzz exploded in Finland.
The degradation is not high at all. The car did only 10k km. Test it later when it will have 50-100k like those other cars in the table, then it will be comparable. The batteries are also more likely to degrade faster at start and then degradation slows down, so one cannot just assume that the car will loose 2.7% every 10k as it is not linear
That consumption at 110 is just sick! Yes i know it's like driving a wall but nevertheless, 3 Kw is just to much.
Remember, it was cold just 6°C and maybe he turned on some heat which also demands much it such a huge cabin I guess. Heat pump or not.
The buzz is a joke. They should have releases the 110+ kwh version long time ago. The car needs a bigger and better battery pack to mitigate the big consumption
@@TheEdmaster87 Extend the range is one thing. What I'm on about is the cost of driving the thing.
I have an ID.4 First edition (77kWh) with 109k km in 2 and a half years and currently I have only 50-54kWh left. I live in Sweden and can drive to Gothenburg or Oslo for a TB degradation test.
VW says the battery has no issues.
385km under perfect conditions with this battery pack damn
My Enyaq (100k km) gets around 53kWh, but think software somehow has to do something with it, I went from 4.185v max to 4.14/4.15v maximum at 100% SOC. So definitely something going on with software.
Ist that just lower voltage that is caused by degradation & recalibration of cells by the BMS? BMS keeps the top buffer at the same level.
Definitely software. Before a software update the car would show 320km at 100% @ 15C, but at 19 C the range was like over 400 km... bit much difference for 4 degrees.
60 kWh battery, Enyaq used as taxi (10 in fleet)
@@pieter85 Yes BMS does this to minimize degradation. Also, charging to 80% does prolong the battery life span, but not by that much. Our taxi fleet of 10 Enyaqs are charged to 100% every night on 22kW AC chargers, and 9 of them still in prime condition after 2 years, one of them sometimes fails to fully charge but that is probably not the battery but comms failure between BMS and Charger.
Exactly, otherwise the car wouldn’t know when it’s really “full”. It’s the capacity (Ah) that degrades. And definitely software, because max voltage doesn’t change from 4.185v to 4.14/4.15v in one day.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 How many km's (or miles) do these taxi's have?
The Buzz looks amazing though. Would love to rent it for a weekend
I'm surely not the only person to make this prediction but, i see a dieselgate type scandal regarding not just range but battery degradation, this is just not acceptable.
didn't even know this is out and already degraded ,that's bad. I'll wait for Nio and battery swap to be around in Europe
I Drove three times a degradation tour. Depending on temperature and driving speed the result was different. The recommandation of the manufactor for best results were driving at a temeperature around 23-25 Celsius with a constant speed around 80km/h. After 60.000 km my batterie has a degradation of 5kWh = nearly 6% of my usable capacity. On this tour I was able to drive a distance of 1,5 times WLTP.
Pretty low degradation
@@LtheMunichG I consider the value to be normal. It was measured in summer under optimal conditions. When measured besides the optimum the optimum you will of course also get different values that have little significance.
Hope my ix50 battery lasts for a while. I almost always only charge to 80%. 100% only on long trips. Supercharged maybe 2, 3 times only so far.. otherwise just 5-6kwh charger at home controlled with tibber.
I wonder how accurate these consumption counters in the EV's really are. In the fossil cars they are in a lot of cases 5-10% off. Will it really be better in EV's?
Easy to measure electric consumption accurate. More expensive to measure flow of fossil fuel accurately so not done by car manufacturers.
Same with my ID.3 77/82kWh battery. You could almost call the 77kWh a hoax. It’s basically impossible to get them.
Maybe if the car is factory new, charge it to 100%, drive down a mountain for 5-10 minutes and the go very slow deep in the 0% buffer - maybe than.
Thanks Bjorn to share this, I doubt that this degradation can read from OBD on SOH number or not, thanks
Volkswagen battery warranty requires
I think after 200000km you will see the degradation is a lot no matter which car you drive. it is higher by smaller capacity of the battery. so chose always the greatest one. after 15 years all batteries will have age depending degradation too.
The question is how many journalists and CZcamsrs has this car been through in its short life. I.e. is this a press car that has been hammered and drained down to empty and rapid charged to 100% loads of times. If so that’s got to have shortened the life of the battery. Good video though.
It's not a press car. Marcusbil owns it
my id.3 pro s is like 40.000 km (2.5 years)
When it was new I had like 74kWh from 100-0%
Now I have like 68-69kWh
I have like 8-9% degradation
I run the aviloo once I had 97%
And I want to do aviloo once more to see now
In this cold weather, you cannot even use the nominal capacity of the battery.
I didn't use the nominal capacity. It's actually based on real world test.
Great real world tests. Thanks.
Enyaq 80X with 24 months/50k km: Gross 71,5 kWh, net 67 kWh. I'm 100% confident that I never had 82/77 when the car was new. Somerhing is really wrong with these/my car.
I'm 100 % sure you didn't. You had either 75 or 73 kWh net capacity when new.
@@bjornnyland I've always been disappointed with the range of this car. The strange ting is that if I use the official numbers form Skoda's range calculator on 73 kWh net capacity everything falls into place...
Hi, this is interesting…have you noticed any further degradation in the battery in the 3 months since you posted this? I’m considering buying a new Buzz ( there has been a dramatic price reduction here in Ireland since xmas) however, the car seems to have been produced late 2022? I guess they may have overestimated initial demand and that’s how they have older stock….do you think this would have any impact on battery quality/life expectancy?
As a die hard diesel driver ( a recent mis-fuel incident and ensuing cost/hassle has made me reconsider) do you feel that the driving experience of the electric matches that of a diesel? I know on paper that 200bhp seems more than adequate but I guess you don’t have anything like the same torque of a good diesel? Thanks.
Thanks for the info. VW having issues with their sales figures...
Please do this with an ID.3 1st edition (they are 3 years old now)
My iD Buzz is my third EV Car. Battery dropped a few percent, since then it is stable. Same as my old and beloved BMW i3. I hat a Model X in between, but to be honest, the tesla battery lost by far the most over time.
Yes, looking forward to degradation test of old ID3.
Seems as though ALL EV users are ‘early adopters’ with the associated risks. Also they are hostages to government honesty when it’s claimed that charging infrastructure inadequacy will be remedied.
One thing.. is that Norvegian thing to use turn signals while entering and during roundabout?? Here in Finland we have turn signal when exiting. As there is only 2 things to do in roundabout, go around or exit, both do not need turn signal action..?
It's not the law and you will get no fines for not doing it, but it's recommended by police/insurance companies/traffic organizations. It's just trying to tell people where you're going. It sounds like in Finland, if a car has no blinker on, it's hard to tell them apart from a bad driver who will not use the blinker regardless of where they're going and one that is going further in the roundabout? In Norway, if they have the left blinker on, they are clearly going further in the roundabout. Blinker fluid is cheap.
That explains why Finnish tourists are totally unpredictable in Norwegian roundabouts! :) You can go (up to) three ways in a roundabout; Right, straight or left. If you want to go left or right you indicate on the way in.
And if you go left or straight you indicate on the way out.
When entering a roundabout, you indicate based on where you intend to end up. Basically you indicate as if it were a normal intersection: If you're going right, you indicate right. If you're going straight you don't indicate. If you're going left (or back), you indicate left. Of course, you always indicate right when you're about to exit the round about.
We can see why VW waited so long to release the ID Buzz because the aerodynamics are so bad: Winter full-speed highway efficiency at 29KWh/100 Km!
Nowhere near enough cycles to form a conclusion, bet it looks much more normal after another 10,000km.
Normal to get 72.5 kWh from advertised 77 kWh?
You used 74.5kWh new in the wrap up, no? 97.3% doesn't seem catastrophic to me yet, the first few percent goes quickly then degregation slows. If new should be 77kWh then it really is shocking. Can't really be sure until you test again in another 10,000km.
247,5km with 72kwh at CW 0,285! From 100 to 0%!
Eup could manage this maybe too with 32kwh at CW 0,32 😂
That's almost 20kg of battery 🔋 pack rendered useless
I have a ID3 leased untill dec with 50 000km on it in Linköping Swe if you want to test :)
My 30+ year engine is still running... and only lost ~15hp good luck with that EV battery's
So the actual real-world range is about 37% less than the range estimated by the ID Buzz software?
I was hoping the range would be even more given the entire floor is battery.
I get 70kWh on my 6 month 8kkm ID.4 PRO 4motion... well, this is what is written in the obd scanner you use... from 98% to 8% I did 290km and it was around 3ºC the whole time. What I find strange as well is that even though I have the heat pump, the battery does not get warmed up at driving the ID ... is this something wrong?
Charging it to 100% with a slow charger and keeping it connected for more than 1 can balance the different cells
We just sold our 2 year old Audi Q4 40 e-tron, which had 0 degradation. We had it tested 2 weeks before we sold it.
Overall I was not impressed with Audi software, but the car it self was amazing to drive .. Did about 56.000km over 2 years 👌
I just hope our BYD Seal will perform similar. Otherwise I'm going to regret big time 😅
you might be able to test my mother's id3, it has fast charged quite a bit it has done 60,000 km.
Tesla model 3 LR 2019 - 140K km, degradation ~7% (now i get +/- 68-69kwh out of 73.5)
The BMS has reduced the max capacity because its cold outside. In summer it will go up again. This value is fluctuating all the time based on the outside and battery temperature and only god knows on what else. So this wont give you the exact degradation, cause in summer with same car you will get over 74kWh again. The difference between 77 and 72kWh is the 5% BMS SOC, where the display SOC is already 0% (-0.18). This means you can drive additional 3-4kWh till BMS SOC is 0%. Try to drive an MEB car until the battery dies!
Incorrect. When I did a test in 2023 October 19 (winter), I got 74.5 kWh from the battery:
czcams.com/video/Iw64DEmXl7M/video.html
I also drove the car until the battery died and I got only 2.7 kWh below zero, not 3-4 kWh like you claimed:
czcams.com/video/oByKcNZ8l7o/video.html
@@bjornnyland I have a Skoda Enyaq and this value is fluctuating all the time between 75 and 72kWh... mostly it is around 73-73.5. So from my experience I would not give any big meaning to this value. The rest 5%, which is around 3.5kWh you got 2.7 is actually OK, since you run on low SOC the internal resistance was probably so high, that the rest 7-800W was simply lost on resistance and power conversion.
Battery is 82 kWh brutto and 77 netto. Below 0% you have around 4 kWh spare, so from 0 to 100% soc you only have 73 kWh from new. Your carScanner sow soc Display 0% and soc BMS 5,6% the different is the 4 kWh you have below 0% display soc.
It’s the same on ID.3
Incorrect. When I tested driving it to zero, I measured only 2.7 kWh below zero:
czcams.com/video/oByKcNZ8l7o/video.html
And I have measured 74.5 kWh from a new battery before.
When you drive it to zero and car stop, carScanner will still show a few percentages BMS soc.
0-100 display soc is not 77 kWh from new, when calculating degradation you need to take the spare kWh below 0% display soc into account
great comparison, enjoyed it alot
I'd like to know if other MEB cars are like this. My Q4 is 2 years old and almost 20000 km, and HV Battery energy content is about 67000 Wh at 100%...
74,5 kWh when new sounds accurate, because below 0% buffer is not included in that number.
I don't think you've ever had 74. My new gtx gave me about 70 to use at first. Now after 70 thousand is 64-65.
damn this was the first electric vehicle i actually wanted, cause vw Buses always seemed like a cool little bus that can be lived in if needed
As many stated in the comments section, 2.7% is not that much (it's always a greater loss in the beginning). No worries, I think ID Buzz would make a great buy 😀
@@karl7571Vastly overpriced for a van!
My id4 gtx lost 20% over 70000k. in 1.5 years. Car scanner shows 64000 at 100%. It charges almost always at home to 80%. Envy such a small degradation.
Check your cell voltage in all cells, voltage balance should not exceed 0.02 V. Probably a bad battery module?
The balance does not exceed 0.01. These batteries just degrade like that.
Is it possible to get your car scanner dashboard template?
Hey TB, are you using the same obd hardware with different software? If so, can you share what the hardware you are using?
Is this a true degradation or is the software acting upon cel ballancing and thus reduce cells to same level instead of uncresing some cells to compensate for weak cells
Does your calculation take into account the energy consumed from heating the cabin? If not this would explain where your extra capacity went.
Cabin heater is always counted.
@@bjornnyland okay thanks
I drove an ID Buzz last month, could have been the carshare settings but I could NOT find a setting for regen braking to work, it didn’t have much torque, wasn’t great to drive
It does always regen breaking via the brake pedal with break blending. In addition you could drive in B mode for almost one pedal driving
Thanks for this test Bjorn! I have a 77kWh battery ID3 for 2 years now, my reseler made a battery test at 9 years old: 4% degradation with less than 10000kms. At this time, Carscanner said 6935Wh in the battery at 100%, and now, 66250Wh for 26000km. I don’t understand what’s happen and what is my real degradation, and if VW lies on the numbers!
How could he do a test at 9 years old??? Or do you mean 9 months? 4% after 9 months is in line with 2.7% after 6 months as tested by Björn.
@@bilgyno1 Sorry, 9 month yes, but as you see, i don’t get 72.5kWh like Bjorn!
@@patrickcrombez150 do a test like Björn: charge to 100%, drive calmly to as low as possible (arrive back at charger as close to 0% as possible), then measure how much energy can be added to get to 100%. If it is indeed only 66250 Wh, degradation is indeed very bad for only 26.000 km. Age in itself also causes degradation, but still seems like a lot in less than 3 years: 11% starting from 74500 Wh, 14% starting from 77000 Wh (which is the advertised net capacity).
But what's the cost of charging?
What device would you recommend I use to measure my battery on a Porsche tycon 2020 4S
I have an ID4 with 50k km and want to do battery test, but car scanner app show very little options, i dont have bat. temperature, energy content, etc at all to choose to display, what am I doing wrong?
Can somebody explain to me the Deg/Cycle number. I dont't get it. And the 2021Tesla M3LR has a lot of degradation(cycle. I myself have a 2021M3LR should i worry? I drive around 20K per year and i drive fast on the Autobahn when possible. Charging is 50:50 AC/DC i guess.
Ive been wondering about the degredation on my 1 yo Cupra Born 58kWh. Would love to see a test of the amaller battery!
About age vs odometer. My Ev6 has a SOH display in car scanner of 100% at 78000km. My collègue has the same car, 2 month older, driven 8 k km less, less cycles, same DC fast charging rate, and has a SOH display of only 95,3% that is very weird. Maybe should you compare 2 same cars too.
You can't trust SoH. Especially not on Kias.
@@bjornnyland Ok, I am pretty sure that 100% doesn't mean 0 degradation. Remain ing energy is about 71 kwh in my car, meaning 2,5 kwh loss. The only interesting thing is the difference of SOH, not the value
I have a 2014 VW Tiguan Tdi and still no degradation of the fuel tank. Still gets almost 1,000km range with fuel economy about 4.5 liters/100km (52mpg). I think I like good old fashion technology plus it’s super eco friendly helping feed the forest and vegetation with a little CO2 to keep it green.
Are you and family heading to Thailand when winter hits?
No
what battery chemistry?
At some point you have to stop and ask: "Just what is it that EV's are supposed to be saving us from?" There is one question that never gets asked that would expose the "climate crisis" for the scam that it is, which is "What percentage of the atmosphere is CO2?" The answer, never given in plain language, is that CO2 is currently around 420 parts per million, (google it) increased, they tell us, from 280 ppm in 1850. That's a difference of 140 ppm, or in terms more readily understood by the layman, the composition of the atmosphere has changed by 0.014% (14 thousandths of 1%) in the last 170 years. LESS THAN 1 THOUSANDTH OF 1% PER DECADE! How much closer to "zero" do they think it's possible to get? How gullible do you have to be to believe that this rate of change is causing extreme weather events, which have always happened and always will? Their claim is that this tiny amount "traps heat". ALL gasses dissipate heat and even if CO2 is an exception, the suggestion that a total of 0.042% can overwhelm the capacity of the remaining 99.958% to dissipate that heat is abject nonsense. CO2 DOES NOT control the global temperature, there is no "climate crisis". Wind farms, solar panels, heat pumps, EV's.. None of these measures are necessary, nor will they have the slightest effect on the weather. Eye-watering sums of money have already been wasted on this futile exercise. Time to wake up, stop throwing our money at these boondoggles and squandering the world's resources on projects that cannot possibly succeed as there never was a problem to begin with. There is no need to save the planet from a minuscule increase in the gas on which all life depends, but it does need to be rescued from idiot politicians and media mouthpieces that push this garbage.
EV batteries tend to degrade faster at the very beginning of their life. Also, this Buzz is used as a rental car and people do not treat rental cars with much respect, you should probably note that in your graph. You should also probably test it a few years in.