Here's Why You Should Buy a Chevy Silverado ZR2 INSTEAD OF A RAM TRX or Ford Raptor!
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- čas přidán 10. 02. 2024
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#chevy #silverado #zr2 - Auta a dopravní prostředky
If you say 74k is reasonable, I feel like you might be losing touch with the people who watch the channel. For 95% of us, 74k is ridiculous and unattainable.
Might? 5 yrs ago he was telling us how a 65k Rubicon is a good deal. This channel has went to shit.
Perhaps they are meaning reasonable compared to the similar build by other brands
If you haven't purchased a brand new truck in the last year, then you are the one who is out of touch with current pricing. Yes, it's expensive. But find another brand new full sized comparable model in the segment that is so much less.
@@eblamo If you've purchased a new truck in the past year, you overpaid. Period.
Roman doesn’t dictate pricing, so it’s pretty crazy that you take offense to that.
I know it’s a joke, but we gotta stop saying 75,000 is affordable or reasonable in any way lol. It’s outrageous and they really truly don’t need to cost this much.
He didn’t say it as a joke. He kind of meant it.
amen. cost of these trucks is ridiculous especially considering the mfg's are making record profits. time we vote with our dollars.
@@freidrichnietzsche6643people are voting with their dollars. These trucks are selling.
The price of that truck is ridiculous
Most base model trucks start at $45k now a days, so its not really expensive in todays economy. The days of $50K fully loaded vehicles are gone
This kind of rationalization of the insane prices is amazing. Someone sells you a bucket of horse $hit for a high price and you rationalize that it’s totally reasonable price because they are selling dog turds for somewhat less. The bucket of horse $hit is practically a bargain because there is so much more content in it. How about that both piles of excrements are priced at unacceptable levels?
stop being poor
Manufacturers are pricing these trucks out of reach to the everyday working mans budget. Sad he said 74k is reasonable. Maybe to him but not to most of America
He said it was "expensive but..." Obviously compared to a Raptor R at over 100k, 74k is much less.
Everyday working man does not need the fancy off-road version either. These are luxury items, not guaranteed by the constitution
my price nothing added is $65k, the GMC AT4X but you get more is $73,841
Most base model trucks start at $45k now a days, so its not really expensive in todays economy. The days of $50K fully loaded vehicles are gone
Why should a top trim offroad truck be affordable to everyone. If you want a cheaper full size truck by a custom trail boss or an fx4 f150.
I was in the market for a new 2024 LT Silverado trail boss with the 5.3L engine, but these are priced really high and I was not ready to make the purchase. When I was at the dealership I found a new but 2023 LT Silverado 4x4 with the 3L Duramax diesel. This truck had a sticker price of 58k but since it was last year model year it had big discount. Purchased the truck for 47k and so far I am really happy with this.
74k is absolutely a deal breaker
Most base model trucks start at $45k now a days, so its not really expensive in todays economy. The days of $50K fully loaded vehicles are gone
consider a Raptor cost, 8300 towing in the Raptor and this things mileage and the fact that not a single Raptor I found, when I bought my 6.2 ZR2, was even clost to MSRP. I was fine with the price with how insane the used truck market was nearly 2 years ago. I drove a Raptor, totally love that this still feels like a truck the Raptor was too squishy, the shocks are so amazing.
stop being poor
@@davidporter7051 Some people can buy a 100 of these (cash) but won't buy a single one....because they're not stupid. It's about knowing when and what to buy. It's the people that think they have money that always get ripped off, supporting automakers poor management/poor leadership/poor decisions. Buying this truck now is NOT a sign of being wealthy...it's comical
At that price and no 35s while your smaller Colorado brother does get 35s is a shame.
The Bison, not the ZR2. The Colorado on 33" tires probably has better clearance than this truck on 35" tires.
@@jeffk464 but when it comes to that price , it has to come with it. We’re talking about 82K+ for a bison model.
Just bought a 2023 Silverado RST with the 3.0 duramax. Love the truck. The smoothest riding truck I've ever had. And, when I baby it in warm weather, it gets over 30 mpg
Congratulations I’m so jealous. It costs 120.000$ where I’m from. So can’t get it. Enjoy buddy.
74k is only reasonable when you have money falling out of your deep pockets, lol
stop being poor
Regardless of Individual’s perception of budget and what is affordable or reasonable, the fact that a fully loaded LT Trail Boss is 68-70 and this can be 74 is one heck of a value added for about 5k.
Cool truck and review🤩thanks!
That integrated block heater plug should be on every vehicle.
Alaska and Siberia have beaches too. I bet your opinion will be different if you live on those beaches. Heck, just go to the Oregon beach. 40F temperatures and horizontal rain 9 months of the year. Beach life is so cool. Literally.
I think 8900 pound towing capacity is plenty for the half ton class. The 12,000+ ratings are to be blunt, stupid for a half ton. And most typical half tons are going to be around 9300-9500. So 8900 is a good number.
I also think half tons should come with an asterisk on their tow ratings though that exclude enclosed type trailers at those weights. That’s not a popular opinion I know but I’m sorry, an 8,000 pound camper or especially an enclosed car trailer will push a half ton truck around like a rag doll.
speaking the absolute truth here. I dragged a 7000lb (loaded) travel trailer at 33 ft in my 2020 Nissan Titan and there's absolutely no way in hell I'd go an ounce above that with a travel trailer in ANY half ton, regardless of ratings. "Just because you can doesn't mean you should."
Thanks for the quick review, TFL crew. Hope we see more videos of this truck in the near future.
By far, the greatest and best half ton off-road ready truck ever made, especially with the improved diesel engine. Both under Chevrolet and GMC Sierra twin.
And Roman, stop complaining about the view of the hood. The bulge on the hood is a decorative piece to differentiate the truck from the other trims. And it wouldn’t be a bad view without the use of the front facing camera to see what’s in front of it.
For the 74k price tag, it’s totally worth it. I could get two ZR2 diesels for the same price as an over priced and ugly Raptor R.
Looking forward to many more videos on this truck.
Thanks great little review
Thanks for watching!
2024 GMC AT4X gets the AEV front bumper without having to order the AEV package and it has massaging seats, a sunroof, and stereo in the Multipro tailgate
Nice work guys
Local dealer here has the Bison edition Silverado ZR2 w/Duramax. $83.000! Comical.
And for what it's worth the Colorado ZR2 is their ultimate off roader for trails!
Use the underbody cameras when offroading. Those and the surround camera system make offroading easy in this truck.
I think that the ZR2, and the GMC AT4X.especially with the AEV package, are the most off road capable 1/2-ton trucks made.
Who else gives you that wonderful 3-liter diesel, and lockers front and rear. It also has that full range transfer case, and the automatic 4X4 setting. It also has that wonderful Allison 10 speed transmission. I wish others, like Jeep, Ford, and Ram had such an honest, versatile setup!
Not going to complain about the price, because every vehicle has way too much inflation cost factored in, but I am interested to see how the guys like Duramax diesel. I’m a diesel daily driver and wouldn’t ever go back to gas - I’ll switch to electric first, though I’m not going to do that for years, in part because it’s hard to replace a vehicle that goes 750 miles per tank…
Ahh a relevant comment to reply to. I've been rocking a 3L Diesel in a fully loaded 2021 Ram for over a year now and absolutely love the truck. Give me a baby diesel over any other power plant imo. Now that is the 3rd Gen Italian made diesel from RAM and now discontinued, so that pretty much leaves only the Duramax. What I really really want, is a baby diesel power plant combined with front wheel electric motors, electrics that can scoot me around town for pennies, the diesel can drive the rears on the highway for 25-30mpg, join the two for some 4x4 off road action. Why no one is building that absolutely confounds me!
Love my 3.0 duramax
@@mgiraudjr Likely because the price and weight of that described truck would make this duramax look like a cheap toy. Double that if you want enough battery for non-trivial all-electric miles.
truck prices haven't changed since 2000.
I currently have a 2019 RAM Laramie.
My next truck will be a Chevy/GMC, just for the V8. I just hope the engine quality will improve.
Can’t afford to watch this video. I’ll wait for the next W/T video.
I tend to agree with the majority of this review. The Duramax is a proven powerplant that offers quite a few advantages (torque, mileage, likely durability) over the gassers. It comes to personal preference & intended use.
Really nuce truck! 👍🏻
All that reliability and can't even Crack 300hp in that duramax
In Australia the ZR2 is now available in right hand drive with the 6.2 which is the only version ive seen so far. They are $92,000usd driveaway
Nice quick overview. Thanks. Agree with the hood bulges. Why? Now, my issue: swap my '22 pre-refresh LTZ 5.3 for a '24 Duramax High Country?? My local dealer is temping me. Help! Maybe I hold out for a ZR2. Yep. Good strategy. Unobtainium. Safe. For now.
Just got a trail boss with the 3L Duramax. Man that is one nice engine. Very pleasantly surprised by its performance
In 2019 I bought a fully optioned, New 2019 Silverado 2500 HD High Country with Duramax for $66,000. Just pointing it out for a reference price point on a less capable truck in the current economic climate of high rates and even higher truck prices.
We need some deflation of vehicle prices.
Damn you scored man. That’s prob $85-90k now
I got my 2018 Tacoma TRD off road 4x4 new for $35,000 out the door and they just offered me $33,000 at the dealer for trade in value with 34,000 miles on it. I just might do it lol
I like more TRX or Raptor, but I didn't choose yet between them. About prices; all of them are just insane, and I'm saying in general, not only about trucks. Thanks for the video.
Absolutely love the truck but also would be terrified to take it off-roading in any serious way considering the size, weight, and price. Even more so in the snow and ice.
Love my 6.2 2022 Zr2
Dream truck! Wish they were affordable!
There’s a dealer down the road for me that has had two raptors sitting on the lot for three months now….
It’s a beautiful truck, but you have to get specific ZR2 suspension parts. I’d rather get a Trail Boss fully optioned and have more aftermarket support, and cheaper support.
This truck over a TRX !! Oh come on. I own a TRX and just bought a 2024 2500hd zr2 bison. The trx is light years ahead of the gm suspension. Rear leaf spring? Lol. What makes the trx special is its built frame up, where the gm is just a silverado with cool suspension bolted on. I love the 2500hd though.
The TRX is a toy and you know it. The fuel economy sucks, it's too wide, and it costs too much. If you are only desert running then go ahead but the zr2 is the better overall truck to daily.
I feel like the people complaining about “it’s reasonable” being a big deal are the same people you have to repeat directions too. No one listens and understands context. Of course it’s expensive but relative to the rest of the field it’s not crazy expensive for all you get compared to mid level trucks from other brands.
I just got a 24 Zr2 paid under 70 and it’s an awesome truck
I have the 2023 6.2 gas version of this truck because the Duramax wasn't an option on the ZR2 at that time. It's been a great truck, but I'd much prefer the diesel!
Looked at a 2024 diesel because I am in the same vote .
In southern Ontario Canada GM dealership wants between 25000 and 30000 to upgrade my current 2023 ZR2 to a 2024 diesel ZR2.
These stealerships are greedy bastards!!
30000 can buy alot of fuel!!
I told the dealership I would be back next year to buy a used ZR2 at the 25 to 30 000 discount from MSRP.
Crazy times
74k with some good discounts that are usually available and this wins out every time to your raptors, trx, etc
Two things missing: larger fuel tank and lower geared diffs, especially with the bigger tires!
GM killed it with the LZ0, all the “Chevy sucks” peeps are converting, you love to see it 🔥💪🏼
I have an LZO in my Denali and I gotta say - it’s amazing!
And let’s not forget the runner belt that runs the oil pump😢.
You finally got the long term Grenadier!
The engine can be modified so its not a dealbreaker but the $74k price tag for something that is gonna get destroyed is not fair at all n
74K and I can only guess the payments are getting near or over 1500 a month. That’s what I pay for my current mortgage. I think I’ll stick with my paid off HHR and Corolla for the time being 😅
The place your doing this video is an old camping spot cool
Love diesels, but a lot of down sides. Initial cost. Weight. Emissions control systems, that break. The price of Diesel now makes it pointless to have vs. Gas.
I'm seeing $10K to $12K off Silverado 1500 ZR2s all over the place. I think at that price, and not the MSRP, its a pretty good deal.
Finally ! A proper substitute for the Gladiator EcoDiesel
I did a little research. If you plan on getting the 2 speed transfer case (w/4-Lo) you have to get the z71, trailboss, or the Zr2 packages. Otherwise you will just have Auto, 2Hi, and 4Hi.
A few weeks ago I probably would have said that is fine. But after going through the wicked ice storm in the PNW and using 4Lo to creep down roads that were literal sheets of ice, I am a fan of having that available on all trucks even if they (like me) hardly go offroad.
@@ALMX5DP
Had the same thing happen to me as well .
Atleast with the ZR2 you can lock both diffs if necessary
A base ram rebel is more than $74k guys. No 360 cameras. No adaptive cruise. No cooled seats. No heated rear seats. No leather. No diesel option. Smaller V8. Unfortunately, the price is very competitive.
Beautiful truck. The prices are insane. but his is relatively "affordable" for what you get!!
The question is if you had a choice between the ford tremor and the zr2 6.2 liter. Which one would you go with for everyday use?
I have owned both and as a everyday the tremor is by far more comfy
Mpg run when?
I just noticed that the bose system is still missing the center dash speaker. Ford, Ram, and Toyota all habe them. Its pretty disappointing to skimp on things like this.
I test drove a sierra 1500 with that engine and I loved it! Just not the price. Plus the maintenance required and with that oil pump belt on the back of the block…I’ll pass. Sad to say the turbo 4 might be the most reliable engine GM makes.
The belt maintenance isn't a big deal at all. The service interval is 150,000 miles. If you drive around 12,000 miles a year then you don't have to service it for more than a decade.
So the block heater connection is a proprietary plug?? Why not just a 120 inlet that accepts a regular single outlet cord??????? @0:21
Actually, I'm waiting for the 2025 Chevy Tahoe the Duramax 3L LZO engine and the updated interior will be in the Tahoe and first time ever Z71 diesel model but no adaptive cruise for the Z71
Why not a Yukon? Got a neighbor that just grabbed a 24 Yukon Denali with the LZ0. She's LOVING it.
@@ZDrum16 I wouldn't be taking a Denali off-road, Z71 will have skid plates and off-road tires
Got a 2024 ZR2 diesel this past November and I absolutely love it. Great fuel economy, towing and off roading. Got 10k off, I said if the dealer didn’t take my offer they’d be sitting on this truck all year. They agreed and took the deal,truck lots are full of inventory.
So you got 10k off a truck that has been marked up 15k more than it was few years ago? Did you get the buy rate the dealer Financed it from GM, or did the dealer give you dealer hold back? It's sweet truck but with American built quality get the extended warranty before your warranty is up.
@@davidlusk4350the extended warranty people will still call you regardless. 😂
Lol... words to share, shop around at every chevy dealer for extra warranty. They have different prices and he'll need it eventually. Avoid ice cubes tv commercial at all cost lmao
@@davidlusk4350it has a 100,000 mile power train..
@johnmorris77 and probably 7 to 8 year loan, most people zip past time or mileage warranty in few years. And more often it's the gadgets that need fixing vs drive train.
Most vehicles in Canada have block heaters. Block heater plugs are usually in the grill. I have never seen a block heater plug on the bottom edge of a 4x4 bumper where it can scrape against rocks offroad or get covered in mud or ice. Are the DSSV shocks great or prone to failure/leaking? I have seen several CZcams videos of people with low mileage (15,000-30,000 Miles) trucks that had DSSV shocks that started leaking fluid. The DSSV shocks were too expensive to replace when the warranty ran out at about 32,000 miles (a little longer for extended warranty) so the truck owners replaced them with conventional shocks.
Low mileage leak I would assume warranty would cover ??
Exactly.@@brians.1357
Yeah those aren’t the same quality as the DSSVs on other vehicles.
f150 raptor or trx are not commercial vehicles. Yet starts at 77k and 96 for the trx. Where you can get a 2024. 2500 zr2 diesel for 79k. That can tow more than double of what the raptor can. You get 300lb ft(200trx) of torque more in the zr2 HD. For just 2k more than the raptor. Not to mention more cab space. So it may not be able to handle the beating. A raptor or trx can take off road. However it's definitely the truck that can come deep in the mud and get the raptor and trx out. And if you're inclined to throw away another 9k the bison package could be yours. And its just the meanest looking truck on the market imo.
I just purchased a brand new truck for 41K use the remainder of 75K for a down payment on a house house now that's how you spend money with a brain or you could be stupid and waste all of it on a truck that won't last as long as the the money you finance for it
And the mileage? Must be great!
That diesel is an absolute sick dog, we replaced one of our 6.2 L trail bosses with that turd, the guy that drives it would rather have his 2019 6.2 L trail boss back it had 389,000 miles on it with zero issues.
They've had that new diesel trail boss for about four or five months and it has been in the shop three times already after leaving them on the side of the road.
And these aren't grocery getters like the majority are, they are in the west Texas oil field and run seven days a week and average 80,000 miles a year so it better be dependable, the next time it leaves Troy stranded it's probably gonna be in the hands of the Mexican cartel the next morning !
Plenty of 5.3s and 6.2s don’t even make it to the first oil change before they💥
@@freedomisntfree_44 we run a fleet of about seven trail bosses. All of which have the 6.2 L in them and have had zero engine issues whatsoever and they stay idling or running from 6 AM in the morning till about 8 PM at night. I don’t think we have one that has less than 160,000 miles on it and it’s a 2022 model.
We used to run Ford F250 diesels up until 2019, the cost of ownership per mile is unsustainable they are pure junk after about 60,000 miles, mechanically fine but all the junk that goes with a diesel is not worth putting it on the road and making money with it.
@@golfbravowhiskey8669 ford don’t have a lawsuit for blowing engines so ok 👌
@@golfbravowhiskey8669thanks for sharing that. I have a 6.2 ZR2, and I’m happy with the performance and fuel economy. Was a little concerned with the 6.2 but so far I’ve not had one issue with it. That said I only have 10k miles on it. Just got back from a trip, Dallas to San Diego, went through Midland and as you said, saw a bunch of F250s but also saw a lot of white Silverados, owned by the oil well service companies.
Chevy needs to get rid of the leaf springs and make an electric version of this truck then this would be a good truck.
Andre is jealous, it has cruise control.
😂
Is the Cadillac 800 hp v8 motor a solid reliable motor
Nice truck in isolation, but the Raptor is vastly more capable. It can sustain speeds of 60+ on whoops over a foot deep, it leads in every clearance category with the 37s, it has active suspension adjustment, and it has coil springs vs the leafs on the ZR2. Plus, it won’t crack down the middle after a day of off-roading (reference Mint 400 ZR2 that broke at the end of the race).
your post reads like an AI advertisement.
I see a lot of complaints about the price of new trucks.=, but on the other hand so many want every possible option, what did you expect?
The price of these trucks is the reason the used market has exploded…I have a 2019 LTZ with the 6.2 and it’s not uncommon for people to ask me if I want to sell it….had more than a few calls from the dealership asking to buy it back…but it has calmed down since they’ve gotten more inventory on the lots…but it doesn’t matter. Not selling now any way…..
Now question is, go 6.2 or 3.0? Really looking into a ZR2 Bison.
Duramax
I had both and 3.0 all day. For day to day driving the 6.2 is a guzzler and as we all know will eventually have issues.
@PhilBiamonte
Yes the 6.2 likes the fuel ,but sounds so good with a aftermarket exhaust.
Who knows when the v8's will be gone for good
With all that road salt on that frame you might want to take it down to your local Krown oil coating shop and have it coated before that frame starts rusting away. The wax on that frame won't hold up.
I’ve seen Krown strip the wax off
They'll own it for 1 year if its not a quick loaner. Do you think they care about that??😂😂
Cowpokie doesn't use salt, now where the truck came from Michigan? They do also WHY it distinctively has a block heater! No vehicle unless specifically ordered per owner in CO comes with a Block heater, bc it's unjustified! CO has more Sun statistically not joking than Los Angeles & Miami Combined. - SEE VIDEO of patches of "snow" in the "Mountains" aka hills lol😂
I been using Krown for almost 9 years on my truck and didn't affect the wax at all. @@k9feces
You guys should put on the Addicted Desert Designs front bumper for this, it's high clearance with lighting cutouts AND a winch mount option
Are those DSSVs rebuildable?
I don’t know if they are rebuildable but they are tremendously expensive. I had the gen 1 ZR2 Colorado years ago and the s hocks were $1,600 per corner that time, new.
@@is6566 it’s insane. If they’re not rebuildable I’d just upgrade to Kings honestly
This truck would be perfect, and a true budget Raptor, if only it had two more key features: a wider stance, and 35” tires stock (or at least room to upgrade later without having to trim or adjust anything).
Sure, those aren’t the only differences with a Raptor, but the other couple of differences, like the Raptor’s upgraded suspension in the rear vs the ZR2’s leaf springs, aren’t that big of a deal IMO. 99% of the buyers of these trucks will never notice that difference in 99% of the time they use their trucks.
Can’t get 5.3 on the zr2
Compare the price to its competitors it’s actually the most affordable
$74,000 is still insanely expensive for a good portion of the automotive buying world...
Anything over dodge if you want your electronics and software to last longer than 2 years or 3 software updates.
Yeah, no I have to agree, becoming numb to the idea that 65k+ for a mid level truck is far from reasonable, a 2019 F250 diesel 4x4 Platinum had a sticker of 64k according to Motor Trend. Throw another 10k just in case there's a typo and you get my point.
I still haven't figured out what the car markets going to do after the people that got bent over and gagged for buying in this pandemic are going to get anything close to what they paid for it in trade in. I suspect we will start seeing 120 month financing to become normal to keep up with these ridiculous prices.
Let's not forget the youngins that are needing to get into a vehicle when a pile of crap right now is going to run you 15 grand on average.
I love leaf springs…
Is the ZR2 even in the same level as Raptor and TRX?? I say no 🤷🏻♂️
I have not owned a Chevy in 20 years. Has the quality and reliability improved? I only had Chevy's for 20 years and they ALL fell apart 100%. Since I have had Ford King Ranch F150 x2, Nissan Frontier x2 and a Jeep 392. These vehicles have had zero issues.
It's only 75K cause people are stupid enough to pay it throw their money away. I just purchased a truck that's being built right now for 41K leather interior everything. Just purchased a truck 2 years ago full size truck for 42K.
I'll keep my Gen 3 Raptor thank you...
500 miles per tank... 🤣That's if you drive 65mph empty following a tractor trailer. 🤪 You'll also need to use 23 of the 24 gallons tank. The best part of the diesel is you can upgrade the fuel tank with Titan Tanks and get a 43 gallon tank. You could get 900+ miles range with that.
I have had 3 of the 3.0 Duramax trucks, 2 were RST and 1 was a Trail Boss. 500 miles from a tank was not hard at all. Granted, the faster you go, the lower the mileage but at regular highway speeds around here, generally between 60-70 mph, 500 miles on a tank was simple.
Tremendous job guys
Everyone in the comments complaining about prices, but I bet if you look in their driveway they have one that costs just as much!
74k for a Pickup Gas engine is Crazy.
My Tundra I got used for 27k.
It’s a Duramax and compare it to its competitors the price is actually good
Not a gas engine.
Good on fuel hard on oil, 6.2 only way to go. The extra torque with diesel would be eaten up by the weight .
Roman treats him like the good son who doesn't break his balls
I don't get why everyone is so against leaf springs I like my trucks to have leaf springs.
Does it at least have a frint camera to offset that massive hood bulge?
Front parking sensors would be a great addition on this top end model , can't belive on a 90000 plus truck in Canada they aren't!!
GM still having lifter issues?
Bought a new Sierra with DFM factory delete in 2021. Just hit 29,000 miles and haven’t had any issues with lifters, but I did recently start having a rough shifting transmission.
@@jayk.2276 damn sorry to hear that. I love the new look of the Chevy trucks but too many are suffering from quality problems. I have an 03 5.3 with almost 200k and hasn’t had a mechanical failure.
And at that price do you get the roof structure recall ??
GM quality - sorry, we forgot how to weld a roof on correctly, so you may need to have your 75k trucks roof replaced, rewelded, and repainted !! 😂😅😅😂
I have owned 10 Silverado’s in last 10 years , Chevy just wouldn’t build the super truck , now I’m in a Raptor , cmon Chevy , interior upgrade . 35” tires min prefer 37” wider stance and super charge the 6.2
Anyone try watching the video at half speed? Hilarious!
$74k is almost as crazy as people asking $25k for a 2015 Silverado with 125k on the clock. Who is spending that kind of money for (an almost) 10 year old clapped out truck?
If it comes with 35’s stock and rear coil springs ill get one.
Definitely not interested in a modern diesel. This truck, "and then some" seems the best description given the equipment and price. What is "a decent amount of payload" given it's a lifted half-ton hauling around a diesel? I suspect the payload will limit your towing to a small boat when 4 adults want to go to the lake, and who needs the diesel headaches and cost for that?