Vulnerable Woman Suspiciously Vanishes From Foster Family | Murder At My Door | Real Crime
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2021
- When Derek Fleming was diagnosed with terminal cancer he feared for his vulnerable teenage daughter Margaret, who had learning difficulties. But believed he had found the perfect solution when he asked family friends Edward Cairney and Avril Jones to help care for her when he died. After his death Margaret eventually moved in with the pair in 1997.
But in 1999 Margaret vanished, last seen in December, Cairney and Jones told family she’d left with travellers. Letters arrived from Margaret sporadically over the years proving she was still alive. What the couple weren’t telling anyone was that they were still claiming Margaret’s benefits. It was only when there was a change to the benefits system that their web of lies and deceit began to untangle.
Police were called, and an investigation was launched. Police believed that they murdered 17-year-old Margaret in late 1999 and then created a tissue of lies to make it seem as if she was still alive, even travelling the country to write letters purporting to come from her.
In June 2019 Cairney and Jones were sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder of Margaret Fleming, fraudulently claiming £182,000 in benefits and perverting the course of justice.
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The dad should've left Margaret to Jean...point blank period!!!! RIP MARGARET & I PRAY YOU'RE FOUND ONE DAY!!!!🙏🏾
Omg this is so sad why would no one check up on this poor girl 😡good for the social worker for actually thinking of her.sleep tight Angel your with your dad now 😢
So many people failed this poor soul.. It's like she never existed 😭😭😭😭
I don’t know why but even after watching many many crime docs involving murder, i still can’t wrap my head around how people murder, kill and get satisfaction from it.
@@wlwdisaster115 some maybe but not all police
@@wlwdisaster115 criminals get satisfaction in killing people and cops. Geesh
@@Sg4809 99% cops do its okay if you dont agree tho
You're still young. You will understand soon enough.
So sad. I always wonder, what's in the minds, of brutal murders!... I find it so Sickened and horrified. When I hear, that some killers "chopped" body parts.. Like pieces of Animal meat, Beyond humanity.....
The mother deserves a lot of blame for not checking on her daughter. She should have had social services perform a welfare check early on, as it must have been pretty obvious that the couple were unfit and dangerous.
they should never get out of jail
This breaks my heart. That poor girl. 💔
Better than she deserved.
It's sad that they went to prison at such an old age. They lived pretty good life on Margaret's expense. Justice was never served
You are 100% right.
100% correct.
It's not sad that they went to prison. They should have gotten life in prison.
@@patriciajrs46 I'm sure Edyta meant that it is sad they went to prison at an old age when They should have been caught when They were much younger so they got to spend so much more time in prison. That is how I took her comment...
Not sad at all. With God is the final justice.
The social department let Margaret down. When someone is receiving benefits you should do home visits.to verify that the person is okay.
I dont think the DSS has enough staff to visit everyone on benefits, but the person receiving benefits should definitely have to front up to the social offices for appointments etc, unless they have doctors certificates stating they are unable to, in which case they should check up. It was actually the DSS that got the police involved in the end.
@@janetpendlebury6808 At least I would think that the nature of the consequences with a disability may change over time, thus require regular evaluations from healthcare officials🤔? To see if merely guardians were sufficient to "look after her" or whether one percieve she might have developed better to have some amount of care and/or education with professionals trained to her specific problems?
In Australia the person that is the carer has to do alot of things just to get carers payment and once you get it you have to get a doctor's medical certificate stating that the person on disability still needs a carer due to them not being able to do everyday things depending on their circumstances. I can't imagine 17 years and not once going into the office for any reason. I know this because my brother is on a disability pension and my dad cares for him. They don't bother the person that's being cared for much but they do the carer so to make sure they're not rorting the system.
That poor girl, may her soul rest in peace and Jean stop acting cause your words don't accumulate with your actions regarding Margaret.
@@daginezho1637 It was when the system changed in UK apparently that the DSS did eventually require contact with Margaret, that is why they did a home visit, and eventually called the police. I am a carer for my daughter in law here in Australia, so I know the hoops we have to go through, not sure what the system was like back in 2000 though. I hope the system in UK is now better, but I remember the case over here only a few back when Ann Marie Smith died in appalling conditions due to her carer not caring.
@@janetpendlebury6808 The doctors believed Annie was confined in a cane chair for an entire year before her death which was April 2020. The Integrity Care SA was banned from operating under the National Disability Insurance Scheme. Better than nothing but too late for her...and how many others??
What?! She was 16 when her dad died?! She couldn’t live with her grandparents nor mother until she’s 18?! & her dad trusted Cairny & Jones with Margret more than the woman he was about to marry?! I just don’t understand… rest in peace Margret 😞
I think they explained it because the couple had money and the mother didn't. And he never did have time to marry that woman (he died too quickly after getting ill) and so I think he felt this couple could really give his daughter a good life. Unfortunately, he didn't know them as well as he thought he did...
The grandparents were in a care home and could not look after her, she could not live with her mother because her father had given legal guardianship to this other couple, so until 18 she had to stay with them, once she was 18 she was legally able to live where she wanted.
@@NubianStone Maybe he mistook a dominant man for being a reliable man? Narcissists may initially seem just like reliable to more gullible people.
@@johannas.l.brushane2518 Narcissistic rages have lead to lies, stealing, violence, and murder.
@@johannas.l.brushane2518 The couple would have conned the father into believing they were a loving, caring pair who could offer his daughter a better life. They would not have shown him their true selves, and he must not have visited their home, unless they were a bit more houseproud in those days!
Margaret shoulda been in a group home with people her own age and with support workers so she could experience life and grow and learn. But instead she was left to fend for herself with people who just wanted her benefits That's so sad 💔
You sound like a support worker
Tf are you talking about? She was living with her family...
@@wombatlittle1 I was 💗🙏
I have a disabled child, im the only one who loves him.
I hope I out live him so he never feels unloved or neglected.
My heart aches for the fear you must carry…bless you both🥰
I feel this comment and only people who live a similar existence can understand. Hugs to you.
I hope you two have long, happy lives together and that he won't go even a day without being cared for 🖤
Same here with a disabled child feeling the exact fear of leaving him behind if i am gone to think of it as God 🙏 know how hard it is
i hope your child has a very good life and future , god will protect him
There is a reason why I trust my pets more than I trust people.
How was it possible to give the child to strangers when her birth mum was still alive?
It’s usually not, as a solicitor he would know that he can only express his wishes as the mother hadn’t given up her parental rights or had her rights taken away by a court.
In this case her mother could’ve tried through an advocacy group or a solicitor even though Margaret was sixteen. It would’ve become very complicated and this young woman needed the right assistance to possibly repair her relationship with her mother, maybe stay with Jean while they both grieved for Derek and understand that she may have choices. I’m not surprised that Margaret’s situation didn’t come to the notice of an authority whose role it would be to advocate for Margaret.
Yes, to say the father made a bad decision would be a huge understatement. He made a grave mistake to trust his daughter with a poor, crude, mentally ill man.
I am a certified true crime addict, but I just don’t understand how people can hurt each other. It kills me to think that I hurt your feelings, never mind ACTUALLY hurting someone. My heart goes out to those affected by this beautiful woman’s disappearance.
I wholeheartedly agree
Shame on the social work system and on Jean for letting this vulnerable girl down catastrophically.
When the only person that ever cared about her was dead and her blood relatives never bothered to check her well being reveals their true nature. They are as guilty as these evil two.
Families become estranged for good reason. Didn't she dislike her mother?
@@FC-hj9ub Exactly. She chose those two over her mother when given the choice and her grandparents were in a nursing home.
This is LITERALLY my worst nightmare. I think it's any special needs parents worse nightmare!
I am so very puzzled that a father who was a lawyer...meaning he must have had some kind of intelligence, could have left his only daughter that he supposedly love with those two nasty heartless brutes. People need to properly research persons before leaving vulnerable human beings adult or child with animals .
He obviously did not know what kind of people they really were, they were skilled con people and took him in. He did not want his daughter going into state care and thought he was doing the right thing by her, she was 16 at the time and he knew that at 18 she would come of age and would then be able to choose for herself where she wanted to live, even get a little place for herself.
I agree. They look so shifty, how could the father be taken in by them?
Many men do not have the sixth sense which women have ,or should have.
They can be intelligent but not have the emotional intelligence. And smn who is in a difficult situation and feels alone can have a very much distorted vision of situations and people.
Poor little Margaret- the cruelty she suffered just for her disability benefits.
Wondering if the benefits were continued to try to cover the murder. He was controlling and may have become enraged to violence when disobeyed?
How evil are those two !!! And how sad about Margaret, poor sweet girl 😰😰
And now these two monsters are living of the government again... they should have to stay in their cell 24/7 with bread and water! No TV, no whatsoever.....
RIP Margaret 💕
Everyone wanted to get rid of her because she she was just a burden. There was no love there. It was convenient for her family to say "oh well she said she didn't want to see us..." rubbish... They were just relieved that someone else was taking "responsibility" for the problem
As a lawyer, surely, he knew that he could not pass a child on to strangers when her birth mum who had raised her partially was still alive. This entire thing makes no sense. I think they took her on for the money. Mum should have gone to the police and children’s services.
We don't know the mother. She could have her own very serious issues making her unfit. The fact that her daughter disappeared and she did nothing kind of shows that he was right in that regard. Who wouldn't question the disappearance of their child?
It's very unfortunate that he chose people who in the end were worse than the mother likely would have been. Psychopaths can be very convincing.
The father believed his parents were incapable of giving Margaret a long term home. For whatever reason her mother did not have custody, and didn’t fight for her child until long after her death,
The Dad made a grave mistake trusting strangers during a very difficult time. These murderous grifters took advantageous of a dying man for his disabled daughter’s benefits.
To little to late ... Everyone but her Father failed her. Let us all be more involved in our families and our direct community. RIP Margaret 💗
At the very least, she was reunited with her beloved dad. Shame on her mom. Jean has nothing to feel guilty about. That was her partner's decision, not hers. It's nice to know that the male perp is being controlled in jail.
Perfectly said
100% agree
Her mom went there to get her back, but Margret didn't want to go with her. We don't know why. Maybe she didn't want to live with her mom, but I think she was intimidated by that couple
What an incredible woman you are Jean.
It’s such a sad story but the reality is you did nothing wrong Jean.
Margaret’s dad thought he had done the best thing for his daughter who he obviously loved very much.
These two people are evil, it’s that simple.
Jean you need to acknowledge two things.
One, you had no legal rights as regards Margaret , and two, You obviously cared very much for this young person.
Jean, please give yourself permission to know that if you were aware at any time Margaret was being mistreated you would of picked up the phone and rang police .
The people responsible for Margaret death are those two evil people.
Take care Jean
From Debbie
Australia
Didn't Margaretes mother have any say in that the full legal guardianship were given to the couple?
@@johannas.l.brushane2518 Mother and daughter did not get on and the mother seems not to have wanted to care for her when the father died, she could have fought for guardianship if she wanted to. She does not appear to have tried to contact her at all in all the years after.
I second that sentiment .
If she had looked in, atleast the once, this maybe wouldn't have happened. I'm sure she didn't mean bad. But she didn't do anything to stop this.
C huh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhv HahH HUHHHHH hut in the bffg
ALL CHILDREN MATTER! Although she was an adult In years, she still had the capacity of a child and was unable to speak up before the worst happened. Lets not forget the people with disabilities who were neglected, starved, beaten and abused often unable to get out of the situation or even have a voice! The government failed this poor woman by allowing her to be placed in the care of these people. The social workers should have screened the couple more thoroughly before allowing them to take custody. I feel adults with disabilities who are in care need to be checked up on more often, as do children in foster care. 😭
They isolated poor Margaret. They told everyone, including her family not to be in contact. This is such a sad story.
Everyone always says that the murderers won’t tell where the bodies are because it’s a matter of ‘control'. That may be true in some cases. But I think these arrogant killers are doing what they’ve always done, and that is adamantly deny any wrongdoing to anyone. The’ve grown so used to being unaccountable, they just dig in and harden themselves further. To tell the truth you have to have a soul, but these characters are heartless. As cold as hell.
What a terrible life that girl had with horrific people to treat her without any worth. Makes me furious!!!
I think this doctor is the same doctor that speaks on Joshua Miles crime videos! He is so knowledgeable and explains things that we can understand.
Not missed for 17 years?!?! 💔WTH! I’ve never heard of anything more ludicrous. Poor Margaret. RIP❤️
I pray that she is eternally in heaven with her father. Rest in peace dear Margaret 🙏 💖💐
very sad story, heartbreaking that this girl had no protection or anyone to help her from that evil couple
Poor lady. My God that house was such a dump, hardly fit for human habitacion.
So no one in the family checked on her for 17 years?
I dont know why the fiancee Jean didnt persuade or convince her father before he died that she can look after Margaret rather than handing her over to strangers.
non of her family members ever tried to call or contact her even on her birthday or Christmas 🤔
Wow. She was the perfect victim. So isolated. What POS these two are. There has to be better social work services being done. And I think that could go for most countries.
I enjoy your stories very much there made very well thank you for your work into putting them all TOGEATHER and uploaded for people to enjoy ! God Bless you and your families , 🇨🇦❤️🙏🇨🇦
I have two children and if for some crazy reason they’re father got custody and then passed away I would do absolutely anything to get them back and if I didn’t then I would at least stay in contact. How does a mother go over 16 years without at least speaking with their child! 😔
How terrible
Isolated from people who loved and cared about her??? Are you serious?? Her Dads fiance was the only one who cared and she's not even blood related so her hands were tied, nothing she could do.
17 years!!!!!!
So sad.
Welcome to the reality of the suffering of disabled people. There are vile people like this all over the place and the systems out here let too many "slip through the cracks." It's horrible, what happened to Margaret, but there are sadly too many Margarets all over the world everyday. Be vigilant, people. If some caretaker tells you their ward doesn't want to see you anymore, insist that you see them and push to make sure their caretakers are being regularly inspected, if you can. Too many of us have been tortured and abused by monsters like these.
Man, if I had a place like that to live in, I would take better care of it. If they weren't going to care for their home, they weren't going to take care of someone not related...
This is really sad 😔
It's a tragedy that no government social worker was overseeing Margaret's care. If Avril had not reapplied for benefits, perhaps nobody would have given her another thought. This story is very sad.
The police and social workers were unbelievable weak.
No one seemed to care for this girl. How horrible for her. She must have felt so scared and alone. Shame on her mother and child services for not fighting for her.
They all failed her, her mother, the fake caregivers, even her 'step mother' who never wondered in all those years where she was. I don't know why they even filmed her fake tears.
I thought the same thing’
Guinevere, thank you. My thoughts exactly. If Jean really, really cared so much about Margaret, then she would have done something to go see for herself. I don't believe her fake comments and tears either. The fact that she admits the first thing she said to the cops at her door, was, 'don't tell me they did her in', proves that she knew something was wrong with that evil couple, yet she chose, she chose, not to intercept. She just stood back all those years. I also don't think that Derek proposed to her either. And dear Margaret is dead, so she can't verify Jeans comments. Nope, she's not as innocent as what she wants everyone to think she is.
@@samp4050 Jean had no legal rights in any of this, once the girl turned 18 she was legally an adult and there was nothing Jean could do. The mother could have demanded guardianship instead of letting her daughter go to strangers, she did not. The DSS should have insisted that Margaret front up to their offices for appointments etc, if they claimed she could not then they should have done a home visit, they did nothing. Everyone let Margaret down, especially her father.
And what about the professionals ? She got money from the community and no-one checks what happends with that taxmoney ?!?! Did any head roll ? Have they fired the mayor ?
@@woutervanlent5181 What has the local mayor to do with it? Nothing to do with local council. It was up to the DSS to check on where there money was going to, in fact it was a social worker who did eventually go to do a home visit and informed the police.
I wish Margret could find the strength to say yes, when her mother went there to get her back. But she must have been intimidated by that couple. How could her father give his only child to those strange people??
Okay, and did anybody wonder when it was said that Avril Jones was 18 years younger, that she might really be his daughter?
she only tell so she can get out jail
I don't understand why if her stepmother was willing she couldn't stay in her home . Why would her dad keep her away from extended family ?
Poor kid, she was thrown to the wolves, no-one gave a toss. When she was heard moaning with splints on her arms ‘because if self-harming’ no-one reacts? What does it take for someone to call a social worker?
Everyone in Margarets life failed her big time, even her father even though he truly thought he was doing the right thing. Even tho Margaret didn't get along w/her mum, she still should've been placed in the mums care. It was time for the mum to step up and do her part - that's her child and her responsibility. There's the fiancé now acting appalled when she too could've taken on the responsibility...she was going to be paid, more importantly, IDK, if you love someone enough to marry them, doesn't this also include loving their child, especially a special needs child. Margaret wasn't physically disabled she wasn't able to do for her daily needs, she just needed supervision. Grandparents was understandable because of their age. Someone goes missing even a year later, let alone 17 years, who in their right mind just accepts it. Even if the mind of an 8 yr says they don't want to see you anymore you don't just say, "okay, whatever, go live your life". People accepted the narrative because it was easy and required no responsibility of their parts and they should feel great regret, guilt and shame.
I found it difficult to even understand what everyone was saying, but the story is one of the hardest and strangest I've ever heard
her mother is guilty like those two pscihopats...i cant even remember how manny times my son tell that he dont wanna see me again when he was in puberty.But this not mean that i took his word as granted...
We dont know what struggles she had to deal with.
@@barbarama i understand.But to except not once in 16 years seeing or hearing from daughter which lives in her small town 2 mile from her is outrageous and irresponsibly...i dont buy her struggles at all my dear Barbara.... greetings from Slovenia...
@@gogokp9276 many adult children are estranged from their parents for good reason. I'm not talking about the random argument, they genuinely want to be cut off.
Honestly the Scottish police did a really good job after somebody sounded the alarm.
My god at least make it believable, they said she was a gang leader?! LOL that girl looked softer than a teddy bear
Good job by the police and prosecutors to arrest and try and put this horrible pair of murderers in prison.
She was a vulnarable person and got money from the community . 17 years the social services don't come on the idea how she is : does she wear decent clothes , does she look healthy , how are her teeth etc etc . Then what does the social service do , where are they paid for ?
Terrible.
The father should have left her care to his second wife. Avril Jones' husband couldn't control her, and he got angry and killed her. That's my opinion. It's really very sad.
he did not have a second wife, it was his fiance, and perhaps she did not want to adopt her not having even been married to the father
That is some ugliness. Well you see, for all their skyving, their life and bodies fell apart around them.
They ended up in one of those hoarders nightmares owing debt on a worthless place apparently.
An ill wind that blows nobody good ...
28:50 I really think that her father should have left her in the care of her stepmother because the stepmother seems to have truly loved her like her own daughter. So sad.
So why, if they were able to convict them of her murder, didn't they both receive a death penalty?? Or at least Edward? Then after he's dead, Avril would no longer have to fear his controlling dominance and could tell them where Margaret was dumped? If she refused, then carry out her death sentence as well. If neither will tell, then there's no reason to keep them alive at tax payers expense. R.I.P. Margaret. 💜🙏
The UK doesn't have a death penalty.
@@SkunkApe407 That's too bad. Maybe if more criminals had to fear it, they'd think twice about committing the crime in the first place. A lot of the states in the USA (mine included) don't either.
@@marciam6224 they used to have public executions in Britain, but a number of public uprisings and some dead nobles ended up changing opinions. They later decided that rehabilitation or lifelong incarceration were the best alternatives.
@@marciam6224 The death penalty is not a deterrent to killers, if it was then the countries with the death penalty would not have any more murders.
@@janetpendlebury6808 Ahh but the trick would be that however they killed their victim is how they will be put to death. If the body isn't found, then they would face a firing squad.
Thanks
So tragic and unfair 💔😢
These ppl only got away with this because family didn't follow through with attempts to see her .
Why didn’t Margaret go with her real mother or step mother?? Even her grandparents. Anyone but that evil couple !!
Maybe she didn't get along with them. Many adults don't want to live with their parents.
she didn't have a choice, she was not legally an adult, and they mentioned several times that she had learning difficulties and was at the level of a child
@ 7:38
That's usually what happens. As soon as a person is diagnosed with having terminal cancer it's usually because they hadn't gone to the doctor soon enough to be able to catch it so typically you get diagnosed and then very shortly thereafter is when you passed away. Now if you go on a earlier note and get diagnosed they can treat it before it reaches to a terminal stage. So I'm not surprised that he only lived eight weeks after being diagnosed.
@ Melissa Harrison, my sentiments exactly too. She never cared about poor Margaret. 🤨
Literally everyone failed this poor girl.
Even the stepmom. How did nobody check on her.. sure now they are sorry. They should have given a sh*t before. A simple check on her, could have changed so much. Sad. Just sad.
So many people failed this poor girl. Why on earth didn't her mother fight for her or at the very least get social services checking on her. So sad her Da left her in the hands of these two monsters.
That was the mystery.How did they kill margareth?
I know her father is dead, but he selected these awful people. he should have entrusted his beloved daughter to his girlfriend, she would have been much better off. why did her father select these people??
How can you be 59 and look like that?! Grime and Guilt that's out. Poor poor Margaret 😢Rest Till Paradise 🌺🙏🏽🌹😞
Cairney an jones kiled margaret for her benefits
I was doing the dishes the first few min. Why didnt the mother took care of Margaret before the father gave her to strangers to care for her????!!!
Her family are a disgrace, should be so ashamed of themselves.😡
You didn't let her down Mr.s Edward Flemming, social services did, not to mention her own mother.
Oh I've seen this one already.
In my experience, if you get a bad vib from someone, you should trust your gut.
21:08 "Nobody in the house but these two". Who else screamed in fright? Yikes!
those two slow learners look like they need a carer
I just found this show and I love it except for the freaking "expert: that just points out the obvious! Didn't they learn from Emma Kenny?!
How can Margaret Fleming go traveling with others when she's obviously incapable of looking after herself?
Why would she not have been given to the woman who was to marry her father?
Poor Poor Girl. I can't believe those who claimed to love her didn't fight harder to see her. They just completely forgotten her. What a bunch of idiots. Her Family members are the worst.
So sad. I always wonder, what's in the minds, of brutal murders!... I find it so Sickened, and horrified. When I hear, that some killers "chopped" body parts.. Like pieces of Animal meat, Beyond humanity.....
I am in favour of the Death penalty. For brutal murderous, pedophiles and rapists.. Against children and the elderly and vulnerable people...
Why didn't the father leave his daughter to his widow? I think he must have been pressured by Edward for some reason.
The only place they haven't dug is underneath the house.
That music at the beginning is absolutely terrible.
He was a diver, and knew the area and all the nooks and places to hide a body in the sea. Awful Awful people to disregard Margaret to get her pension money.
If that is the real place what a Dump, tells you what kind of people lives there and what they are.
True!!! The way someone lives in their home tells you a lot about them also. I guess they didn’t go check it before they decided to make them responsible for her well being