Plus Nuts vs Rivet Nuts...and Install Tool Comparisons.
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- Let's discuss the differences between a Plus Nut & a Rivet Nut, when to use each and the differences in installation tools. Links to the tools and supplies below...
Couple of other considerations I forgot to mention in the video. Since the Plus nuts have a thicker collar on them they will stick up higher than the riven nuts once installed, just something to be aware of when your using them and plan accordingly. Also you can get a inexpensive manual tool (Link below) that is slower but more cost effective if your working on a budget.
The pneumatic tool comes with a short mandrel (hardened Allen head bolt) made for rivet nuts. If your going to use plus nuts you need to pick up a longer bolt, available at any industrial bolt supply) a chrome bolt works in a pinch that you can find at the local hardware store.
Note: The links below are my Amazon Affiliate links, I make a small portion each time someone purchases from Amazon using one of my links, at no extra cost to the buyer. I only provide links to items that I personally like and use myself. i use the money to put back into my builds and support making videos/posts. If you prefer not to use my links you can search for the same items directly off Amazon. Thank you for the support!
Astro 1450 Plus Nut Tool: amzn.to/33Um6vF
Pneumatic Rivet/Plus Nut Tool: amzn.to/2J3LCHh
Standard Rivet Nut Tool: amzn.to/2JCpbty
Manual Plus/Riven Nut Setter: (Will require longer bolt for Plus nuts) - amzn.to/2X8Rgez
Quality Plus Nuts: amzn.to/2LyWKtR - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Thanks Tom. This Tom doesn’t know how to use either but I’m now more interested in the plus nut tool. Informative video.
Ive never used a plus nut before so this has been a good video for me. 1 big issue i would be concerned about using about using the plus nut would be the rotational torque rating as i would think you would be able to do a bolt up tighter. Obviously the pulling forces would be better on the plus nut but that would be an interesting test. When i am concerned with the rotational force i normally use a hex rivnut but i can only use these types at work as u need a hex punch or a lasered hole so they could be used.
Wow! Just learned something useful. I thought river nuts is the only one in the market. I like the plus nuts.
Great video, I'm a hardware junkie, never heard of a plus nut, thanks, but I think I could rig up something to go in an air drill or any drill for that matter to set those plus nuts. Again thanks.
Why do you put the nuts in the hole first? When I do rivet nuts, I spin the nut on the mandrel, then use the tool to insert the nut in the hole. That's way faster than having to turn the mandrel by hand using the little knurled knob to thread it into the nut.
Very well explained, thanks. Indeed the air tool is a winner.
Thanks. I'll be adding one of those tools to my kit in the near future!
air tool more safe
Back around '03-'04 I worked for an auto company fitting out fleet vehicles. We used a pneumatic rivnut gun. The rivnuts we were using were the same as the rivnuts you show, but heavy duty like the plusnuts you showed. So the same shape as the rivnut, but heavy duty like the plusnut. I'm trying to work out if I can make a fitting/tool that I can put on my drill or impact driver to install rivnuts.
Thanks for sharing very useful information!
Very well explained video. I want to secure some cargo drawers in the back of my car and I will definitely be using the Plus Nuts for their superior strength.
When I ordered grab handle from Sprinter store, they sent plus nuts and a simple bolt tool that could be used in a drill or impact driver while holding it with an open end wrench...worked great!
Those work great as well as long as you don't have a ton to do...even then they will work if you have the time 👍. I should have mentioned those tools as well in the review 👍
@@Hodakaguy is there a reason you cannot just torque down the bolt that would be replacing the mandrills job? Similar to a Jordan anchor or a toggle bolt behind drywall?
rivnuts were invented by the bf goodrich rubber company during ww-II as a way to install rubber de-icing boots on existing aircraft, which is why they have limited overlap on the internal sheetmetal but they do provide a very good seal, because most airplanes use their wings as fuel tanks so the rivnuts had to be as leakproof as possible. plusnuts are better for strength when you don't need a leakproof seal. if you were going to use these types of fasteners to install something on the outside of a vehicle exposed to weather, a rivnut would be better than a plusnut in that situation. you might get away with using a plusnut in an exterior application if you use a lot of sealant, but keep in mind it's an inherently leaky point of attachment you will have to monitor. plusnuts are more like a molly bolt for sheetmetal where a rivnut is more like a rivet.
John Edward Ogden invented this in 1921 and called it the "Machine-bolt anchor". US Patent US1365719A. Goodrich Corp referred to this invention when they, in 1952 filed US patent US2763314A for a "Expansible hollow threaded rivet". Goodrich Corp describe the use of this "blind nut" in great detail in the patent application, but did not mention deicing boots at all. Goodrich had been installing rubber boot deicing since 1930, 10 years before WWII started
Thanks for this post. For exterior use, I use small bits of butyl tape on the hole and the threaded portion to ensure the whole affair is water tight. Beware that butyl tape is UV sensitive.
That was great and very much instructive , what looked intricate at first came out rather simple thanks to you
Rivnuts have never been installed in integral fuel tanks. Think about what you are writing.
Thanks that was helpful. I've been trying to figure out the why in the heck I can't get a plus-nut to go in straight with the Astro tool.
Excellent video for the
Information!
An important consideration is the blind side clearances. The plus-nuts requires way more side clearance and depth clearance too. There are situations where the plus-nuts are just too big.
When the rivnuts are properly seated and compressed, they are a robust connection. I suspect that many of the “failures” resulted from poor installation, and I know this from my own sloppy holes (not so easily avoided).
Additionally, rivnuts are available in stainless steel, which should be a critical consideration for exterior installations.
Awesome video/info...thank you!
Great Video Tom, much appreciated!
Good info. Thanks for concise no bs. Market speak.
Awesome video! Very informative!
Excellent video! Thanks for this perfect lecture! What was the brand/model of the pneumatic tool?
Nice job Hodakaguy. Stay safe 👍🏻🇺🇸👍🏻
Thanks and will do!
Many thanks for your super helpful video. Rosie in New Zealand
Glad you found it helpful 👍
I have made my own rivnut tool been using for 5 years and it works. fine but i am waiting for some Plus nuts to come to see if they will perhaps do the finished job better. I would have liked the air tool. but 205mm some bike i may not have enough room to work and may only be able to fit one nut and most i like to have three, sometimes i can use the nuts already fitted most of the them don’t match to the battery plate. Thanks for the link. REC.
Awesome explanation, thankyou
Thanks! I am receiving my FIRST Riv Nut tool kit today from Amazon.I can use any cordless drill to do the same thing, there is a video showing how to do this.
I have used those as well, have fun you're going to love it 👍
Thank you very much awesome information
I'm guessing your mate is still wondering who he lent that tool too🤣Nice video, great explanation, Thanks.
Lol 😁
Great video and I learned a lot. Thanks so much sir. God bless!
Great Video Tom
The Pneumatic boy is the one for me. Thanx.
Used to have a Wombat. Took that 24” spark arrestor out and she had a nice crack. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Wombats are awesome!
Thaks..great information and very clear..
Great vid. I was set on rivet nuts for a project soon. After watching your video I learned about plus nuts and will be going that route. Now to find a good gun! Thx
Thanks for the demo. Will the RN1 rivnuts tool work with stainless rivnuts? mostly 10/24 for use in a tight space.
i like the use of the PLUS NUT using the nomadic drill but my question is this could you get the same result using this set up in a drill ? by using forward and reverse you would be doing the same motions as a nomadic drill i agree you would need to adjust the power used as you would using a drill in a drywall situation
I found an answer in the 'plus-nut' style. They have sizes placing the compression area further back on the bulb that will work in material besides sheet metal - like 3/8" (1/2") plywood. The common rivnut is not available for thicker materials.
yes, only suitable for thin plate
They would be good for box trucks with plywood walls.
@@multibikermike4681 I am currently using the plus-nuts to install solar on an RV roof. very snug and secure!
@@1noryb That sounds tricky, good luck with waterproofing. You might want try some Lexel to seal them. That stuff is amazing.
Thank you so much! Subscribed!
Just started to fit Push nuts, for me better than rivnut. Fitted lots rivnuts with no problems. I just wished i was working with more space to use air tool.
Would like to see how your built went… do you have more content?
thanks for the information
What is the max thickness of metal, the plus nuts will install in?
Excellent video
You did not set each and see which one can actually hold when a lot of rotational force is applied. Looks like the Rivnut might hold better because of the serrations on the barrel. Seems like they may hold torque better than four flat wings. Also noticed that when you used the pneumatic tool the PlusNut wings twisted. Most likely due to the rotational forces during compression. Would like to know if this decreases or possibly increases it's hold on the sheet metal. I ask about rotational forces because I have had Rivnuts spin when trying to remove them when they have been in for a long time.
Love to hate rivnuts when they do that.
Definitely lubing the threads and the bolt threads helps out, but I always cringe when loosening a bolt thats in a rivnut
Make sure the hole is tight 🙂
Very well done
Great vid! Very informative. Thank you!
Combat Wombat?
I have the same gun. We need for it to work with plus it’s but need the longer mandible/bolt. Can you tell me which one to get for 1/4 inch? The instructions for the fun say to for use with plus nuts so we’re thinking about trying something different
There are also an adapter to use with cordless drill or impact driver, seem to be a good alternative for those who don't have air pump.
Comparing this with flowdrill. With the flowdrill once the hole is created i have to tap the hole. There is no additional fastener and no additional cost. with a flowdrill i have an option of a flat surface head. With plus nut it will always have a head sticking out.
I see many comments stating that the Mandrel SOCKET HEAD CAP SCREWS must be purchased from the manufacturer. NOT SO.
The screw used in the mandrel is not special. This is a common Grade 8 Imperial Socket Head Cap Screw. This can be purchased in Grade 8 or lower grades in Metric also at your local Ace Hardware store. No need to order from the Manufacturer. DO NOT USE STAINLESS MANDREL'S.
Purchase the black oxide colored ones. If you break them frequently, recheck your pneumatic gun or manual tool torque settings.
Exactly what I did 👍. It works great 👍
V helpful vid, thanks.
very cool. thanks man
Super helpful. There's a lot of discussion online about problems with rivnuts and plusnuts. You cleared up a lot of that fog,
Thanks!
Don't forget about huckbolts for heavy duty applications. They make standard & blind huckbolts. Might help.
Never heard of huckbolts! Thanks for sharing! 😊🌎✨
@@TheOneTheyCallDean no sweat Dean, take care
What is max thickness of sheet metal would riv nut handle?
very well video, success
Great vid, thanks much for the info!
much appreciate
“RIVNUT® - The Original blind installed internally threaded rivet, was invented (patent #2,149,199) in 1936 for the purpose of attaching a rubber aircraft wing de-icer extrusion to the leading edge of the wing. The RIVNUT® riveted the aluminum wing skin to the inner aluminum spar and then accepted a mating screw to attach the rubber de-icer.
RIVNUT® fastener was given a military specification of MS27130 and an aerospace standard of NAS1329 and NAS1330. Use of the RIVNUT® expanded within the military and aerospace markets, and soon became popular in general industry because of its many design and assembly advantages.”
Have you used a longer mandrel/ screw with the 5/16" attachment to the Kiaruo gun?
Nevermind just realized this is the Astro
I'm trying to possibly use these to repair a stripped out threaded hole in the sheet metal on the tailgate of my pickup. The Torx screws hold on the access panel on the tailgate. The screws are only so long.. so, the question is.. which of these two nuts brings the threads closest to the sheetmetal? Hope that question makes sense. Thanks
I would say a rivet nut will have the threads closest to the sheey metal since its thinner 👍
I would add pipe to both handles on the rivenut setter,just to make it easier to clamp.
Yeh but how to get into small vertical spaces is the thing.
Good idea!
You can also get an electric drill rivnut attachment for about 50 bucks on ebay
Thanks man!!!
There is one caveat using the air tool though: it rotates the bolt to pull the nut in, giving the thread significant friction stress that can deform it or even flatten it out. I'd not recommend this and similar tools.
This is why one should be sure the mandrel has been oiled/lubed prior to use. Duh.
@@SuperBardley The stress still remains... DUH!!!
Was it difficult to adjust the air volume on the pneumatic tool?
The air is easy to adjust. You can set a couple test nuts to get the adjustment correct, its not super sensitive 👍
Also with PLUS NUTS, You can add a washer to increase surface contact.
I'm also doing a sprinter van and used self tapping screws for everything. Its all ripped out of the walls even light things like 10lbs. Pretty thin trash steel on this 2020 compaired to my older 2008 and 2004 self tapping screws held for 16 years, this one doesn't make 2 weeks and they all ripped out.
Skeptical of the kiauro pneumatic air gun. lots of reviewers on amazon said it was not strong enough to work on stainless steel rivnuts, let alone cross nuts, even with the psi cranked all the way past 130
It's worked great for me so far, but I've only used carbon steel plus nuts 👍
There's other manufacturers of these kinds of tools. I used to use one many years ago working on fleet vehicles installing heavy duty stainless rivnuts. The gun we had would thread into the rivnut and then pull it like a rivet gun, but it was pneumatic. I wish I knew what the make was, but that was years ago.
Can u do other size nuts ie 5/16
That air tool is only meant for riv nuts. I just clicked the link (i need a new one for work specifically for plus nuts because the ones we have keep breaking down) and it specifically says that you aren't supposed to use it to install plus nuts. That and the mandrel is a unique part from the manufacturer, not just some bolt you can replace easily from a hardware store
The screw used in the mandrel is not special. This is a common Grade 8 Imperial Socket Head Cap Screw. This can be purchased in Grade 8 or lower grades in Metric also at your local Ace Hardware store. No need to order from the Manufacturer.
Have you ever tried the Astro plus nut adapter for an impact driver/drill? Seems like a good option at the price of the hand tool but with the performance of the pneumatic. I would have to wear my ear protection though :-D
I haven't tried that one, im betting it would work good. Would be interesting to see how long it would hold up 👍
@@Hodakaguy The Astro tool is working great so far. I've only used it for a couple dozen rivet nuts so far so can't attest to it's long-term durability. But it's FAST and easy. The instructions say use a drill with a torque limit set, but with an impact driver and some caution you can really hear/feel when it's fully set. I tried with a 12v impact driver (thinking that less torque might be less chance of snapping the mandrel) but it wasn't really powerful enough. And my 18V Makita has a really smooth trigger that gives me a good sense of control.
For anyone planning to use rivnuts and already has an 18V impact driver, I'd strongly recommend checking it out.
czcams.com/video/ZkqdUQF81Qc/video.html
@@Hodakaguy been using the Astro rivnut adapter for drill/impact driver for about 6 months now. Only used it to install maybe 60 inserts though, but a variety of sizes from 3/8” down to #10. Overall, I really like it. I use it with an 18V impact driver even though the instructions say to use a drill to limit the torque. But you can go easy on it and I can really feel when the insert is fully set. Only had one spinner so far. It’s quick and compact although maybe the short armed manual might five shorter. I think it’s a good option even though the mandrel is too short for plusnuts.
Hi Tom. I plan to buy an Astro pneumatic rivet nut drill adapter. Could you tell me please what size of rivet nuts you need in van? For bed probably you use plus nuts. What size of plus nuts do you need? Thanks
I used all 1/4-20 plus nuts in our building. Here's my build thread with details and pics: advrider.com/f/threads/hodakaguys-4wd-sprinter-build.1380154/page-5
@@Hodakaguy Thank you.
Does DeWalt or Milwaukee make a plus nut gun that you don't have to have pneumatics?
Not that I'm aware of
Thanks sir
Why not use a grade 8 bolt for the pneumatic tool? I'd NEVER use stainless steel for it because of the propensity for galling.
Pricing those plus-nuts shows them to be several times the cost of the others. Keep this in mind when planning/budgeting…
I take it that you can use the Astro or air tool with the Rivnut as well?
Yes. The air tool comes set up for the rivnut, to use with the plus nut you need to replace the arbor with a longer unit. Both will do rivet nuts
Where are you finding plus nuts? Can’t find any sellers
Check out the link in the video description above 👍
What about a self clinching nut tool
hello what model is the air driven plus nut tool
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CYD2NS2/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=hodakaguy-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B01CYD2NS2&linkId=bb52da760e90045a82f260422d15aec1
Could you just use a drill with a bolt/threaded rod in it? Or customize a bolt/threaded rod for an impact driver?
Good question.
Yep, they actually make a tool like that, I haven't had the opportunity to see how they perform yet.
An impact driver with a stainless steel bolt works great.
Plusnut same as Jacknut?
The plus nut works like a molly bolt, i think the rivnuts looks like it would be tougher to rotate with the grooved edge getting expanded into the inside of the hole.
Interesting My problem is i very limited to working space like on a bicycle frame
You might try a low profile manual setter like this: amzn.to/3l1cdVa
haha...you pronounced your name like "ha-da-ka" which happens to mean naked in Japanese. so now you're the naked guy. thanks for the video. just what i was looking for.
Well it could have had a worse meaning 😁
I was thinking the hodaka motorcycle brand
Can anyone point me in the direction of where I can buy these plus nuts?
Yep, I have links to them in the video description 👍
Slick. 😊
Isnt there a type of nut that doesnt need a special tool, but clamps up with the screwing in of the bolt?
It can do that too. czcams.com/video/R5mXTGUO82g/video.html
Can I buy a cheaper pneumatic tool and have it work just as well ? I found one for 1/2 the cost of the one shown in this video but don’t want to waste my $ and time ?
Hopefully I’ll get answer even though this video was made a year ago…
That's a great question, I haven't personally used the other ones so I can't make a comment on the suitability of the other units.
I’m struggling to get my RivNuts set and now I just found out about PlusNuts and like them better for my van build. Only doing it once not many different builds but just need to set so many to hang my bed and attach my cabinets securely to the walls ..
Seems like a washer and a cordless drill would do the work of the pneumatic setter.
That works if you don't need to do a lot of them
FIrst time i hear about a plus nut is from this clip
The adjustment does not set volume it controls the rate/speed the tools operates.
Hi.do you ride a super rat or a wombat combat.?
I've owned both, and both are a blast! Had 17 Hodakaka's in the garage at one point 😁
I'm assuming your name comes from the bikes that were around in the 70's
Dang! That gives me a new "pick-up line" to say once the bars re-open! _"Hello Baby! I'm a _*_Bultaco_*_ , Ride me!"_
That manual nut setter is a rip off...$20 for a 1/4-20 coupler and bolt, pretty much 4x what it would cost from the fastener dept at any hardware store.
I was considering a manual way using an impact driver (as seen on some other videos) but I'm having 2nd thoughts as if it fails it will be a PITA to remove.
Can you purchase mandrel for plus nuts to use with the giantisan rev nut tool?
I'm somewhat skeptical with that tool since Plus Nuts are purposedly designed to compress and BULGE extremely close to the collar in order to set in thin metal sheet (typically an van's body). This "neck" has to expand right by the collar, behind the sheet metal's back and way rearward close to it than where the bulb's slots do end. These pneumatic tools should work in thick (1/8" 1/4") metal but I doubt about the results in a typically thin gauge van's metal sheet especially with bigger sizes Plus nuts. I did try several CZcams showcased homemade Plus-T-Cross nuts tools and NONE solved that issue no matter the manual torque or impact/electric force used to drive them. I have an Astro 1450 manual riveter which is relatively cheap and sometimes a bit of an hassle to operate but it DOES COLLAPSE THESE NUTS NECKS EASILY AND DOES'NT DO IT ONLY BY SCREWING THE BULB BACKWARD BUT MOSTLY BY PULLING/SQUISHING IT REARWARD IN ONE FLUID MOVEMENT. According to my readings, the Kiaruo may work with most Rivet nuts but only small gauge MILD steel Plus nuts
(say 1/4-20 max.) ...
IF SOMEONE CAN TELL ME I'M WRONG, PLEASE DO. i WILL REALLY APPRECIATE! ;o)
I don't know anything about the pneumatic set tool he was using but I use plus nut guns everyday 1/4-20 and 5/16-18. I also have a 1/2" gun as well. We get ours from McMaster Carr. They are not cheap but I have been using plus nuts for commercial van installations for 23 years and have had very few issues. We have had several customers wreck their vans and everything held.
Just to add an experienced advice, I finally bought the gun (US is way cheaper) and it is definitely powerful enough for its purpose, at least with 1/4-20 and 5/16.
Nevertheless, it does not solve all plus nuts issues since there are still a few of them turning freely but it absolutely makes the process easier, faster, more reliable and it collapses them straight so you can sometimes re-thread them with a tap. The nose setting screw and needle bearings wear FAST but are cheap and easily replaceable.
On my next build, I'll try thin lock washers and will also use the simple Mc Master-Carr tool to finish the compression manually if needed.
Sold my Astro setters and will never go back to manual period.
Any vids showing your L track installation
Full build thread is here, ltrack install starts on page 4: advrider.com/f/threads/hodakaguys-4wd-sprinter-build.1380154/page-4
@@Hodakaguy thank you
@@Hodakaguy I would like to install this system on my pick ups bed. Do you think this will work? Would it support securing loads? www.nissanusa.com/experience-nissan/news-and-events/truck-bed-utili-track-cargo-system.html
Of you pit them in with close enough spacing (maybe a ft or so) it should work fine depending on how much weight you'll be securing
@@Hodakaguy thanks. I'm thinking plus nuts with a backing sounds solid.
It would be nice if someone made one to work with a cordless drill.
czcams.com/video/u4huFzeQIgw/video.html
Can use a Plus Nut on RivNut tool?
That depends. A rivet nut is deeper and will require a longer mandrel to reach the threads, most rivet nut tools won't work with plus nuts for this reason. On the pneumatic tool I mentioned you can buy a longer Allen head bolt at your local hardware store to allow it to be utilized for plus nuts as well 👍
@@Hodakaguy thank you
Any Time 👍
@@Hodakaguy Isn't a plus nut longer than a rivet nut?
Yes, you'll need a longer mandrel to use the same tool on a plus nut as like you mentioned the plus nut is longer than the rivet nut 👍