So as this was uploading I connected some bits of lore and I feel stupid for not including them in the video. I admit I straight up forgot about Ballas' whole betrayal plot twist thing, so the actual motivations / events would have went like this: Margulis gets killed > Ballas gets mad > Ballas works with Hunhow and Natah to make her into a spy > Ballas brainwashes Natah to be more like Margulis and love the Tenno > Natah still orchestrates the Slaughter at the Terminus in accordance with the sequence and Ballas' revenge > Ballas' brainwashing stops her from completing the sequence and awakening Hunhow > Natah / Lotus, worried for the Tenno's safety, disappears with the Moon into the Void because her brainwashing says "Protecc babs" > Ballaspikachuface.jpg Again, feel pretty dumb I forgot to put all those pieces together, but it IS pretty dang twisty.
StallordD I feel like the orokin captured her when she entered our system and then used Natah as the Tenno mother, forging her mind with Margulis, in order to lead the tenno into battle as a weapon.
Sentient Granny: Good, good...let the HATE flow through you! Tenno: *Loads Umbra Tigris with malicious intent* Sentient Granny: Wait, that's too much hate...THAT'S TOO MUCH HATE! STAHP!!
this is reason why I believe we may be mislead by what we were told during ropalolyst mission, I think lotus/natah may be manipulated by her mother, there are parts that simply make no sense, I mean how its possible that orokin programed into her loyality to tenno that didnt fail this whole time until she was taken by balas, and yet they wouldnt program into her inability to turn agains them ? Information about being imprisoned on moon makes even less sense seeing how lotus possesed knowledge how to bring out moon from void, why would orokin informed her about it if she was reprogramed by them and imprisoned on the moon. also during new war trailer natah seems pretty lost about what to do and her talk with her mother seems more like her mother is trying to manipulate her into turning against tenno....
@@Culaio Exactly, it makes no sence how the Lotus talks of the Corpus as they are the original creators and how the Orokin brainwashed her, it clearly seems that she was brainwashed by the Mother.
@@cephalonhope8006 StallordD and some people believe it was ballas among the orokin who overseen her reprograming but I dont buy that and thats supposedly reason why she turned against orokin, his revenge for killing woman he loved, from sacrifice quest we saw that ballas was cooperating with sentients before orokin were destroyed so reprograming natah would in no way help sentients, if he really had hand in her reprogramming why wouldnt he program into her to turn against tenno, to manipulate them and guide them into death in some trap, it would be easy for her to guide them into large spaceship rigged to explode, I know in the ropalolyst mission she mentions she was inprisoned on Lua but the problem with that is that we know from second dream she knows how to extract lua from void which means if she was repogramed she could have escaped the whole time but she didnt, which means that either ballas didnt program into her to try to escape prison he put her into(which would make no sense since he was ally with sentients) or it wasnt a prison and she stayed there by choice... Natah being reprogramed by orokin simply doesnt make sense based on info we have.
@@Culaio Exactly, by what she told us she had a chnage of heart once she saw the Tenno, if she was siding whit the Orokin it would make no sence for her to help the Tenno get this strong and in no way would she have hidden the existence of Sentients, raising super human children that can kill hundreds of your kind is kinda dumb.
*Alad:* "Imma perform experiments on sentient tech! What could go wrong?" *Infested:* (laughs in technocyte virus) *Valkyr:* (manical laughter while ripping apart Zanuka) *Regor:* (raises fists in anger) *Acolytes:* (dead silence but probably laughing as well)
If the story ever comes to a completed end, it would make an amazing film that could rival Hollywoods biggest. StarlorD would definitely be required to explain the twisted web.
I don't take what she says at face value for one simple reason. Hunhow said as soon as the others got hold of her, they would 'fix' Natah. That is exactly what happened, so now Natah has to explain and justify her prior behavior.
This, and with the sound of Space Grandma in the teaser last year being super manipulative, I feel like Natah is simple 'reverse brainwashed'. She has yet to actually have been given a choice of freedom to choose between Natah or the Lotus.
@@MakutaNazo Then there is the fact she is the Mimic Queen. Could be this is her way of preparing us for the war now that it is an inevitability. Give Ballas the tools to create the Paracesis blueprint in a way the tenno could build, focus on Alad making scary and threatening but ultimately beatable monsters, and alad specifically because he's smart enough to connect the dots. Him being steamrolled by the ropololyst is a reminder 'you nee the tenno to get rid of the shielding soyour other units can kill this thing.' Plus there is ambiguity in her final lines. She is Judge and Exicutioner... but of Whom? Us? Them? Everyone? Plus I instantly distrust when all sides are going /KILL/. I've played enough legacy of kain to smell a hidden hand.
When Hunhow said fixing her, he probably meant undoing the brainwashing, as it would seem he was aware or became aware due to his interaction with Ballas.
It could be interpreted as Hunhow recognizing that something was awry with her behavior and she was not fully herself, either through paternal intuition or through contact with Ballas, and wanted to free her from this control.
@@singletona082 I keep hearing and reading people say that Lotus is the Mimic Queen. Do you mean literally the Queen of the Mimic class of Sentients or Mimic as a title given to her due to her deception and ability to shapeshift?
I think the last part about sentients' light joining the rest also makes sense from the new disruption game mode's transmissions. Alad is forced to lure us with "rewards" making us kill the amalgams, furthering their knowledge on how to fight the tenno.
What if the story of Natah being brainwashed into being the Lotus is either itself a result of recent brainwashing by the sentients or a face-saver by Natah in order to not be seen as a traitor by her kind? This would open up the possibility of winning her back to our side, and to give her the chance to become our mother once again, this time as her true self, consciously and genuinely. That would be what I wish for the story. Imagine if they made it one big community event to collectively decide Natah's fate.
Ballas said that Lotus was a lie himself in the chimera prologue. That said though. If the sentient are truly sentient then any change to their minds (reprogramming into anotber being) would have an effect that couldn't simply be undone. She will continue to remember us as she saw us, and that does leave the possibility of bringing her back, but i wouldn't count on it. Reminds me of a book i love where the main character had to mask his appearance and mind behind that of another and once his mind returned back after a predetermined amount of time he had the memories of both and simply couldn't see himself as the person he was, but someone new and different to either.
There are 4 Lotus: Natah before the old war Natah with Margulis memories Lotus New Natah who is a mixture of all of them in one being This new form of her cleary has lapses in memory as we can tell from the Erra quest when she thinks she is still in the old war
Stallord always on point with the lore bits. I always look forward to hear what you have to say though I try to figure some things out myself. Never would I have guessed her helmet was the mind control device. It made so much sense during the Apostasy Prologue quest now. What bugs me is the fact that I think she had been slowly beginning to regain her memories even before Hunhow's awakening. It was weird to see her not only acknowledge him as her father right away with said helmet still in use, but seemingly just lie to us Tenno for our "safety." That should've been a red flag for us seeing nobody knew her true origins fully and once revealed, she was like, "Yep, you caught me, sorry about that." I believe role was wasn't just to kill us off, but to keep the Man in the Wall from having full control over of us. He has infiltrated our minds by way of our connection to the void. He taunts us throughout the game. Maybe this also explains what happened when we attacked the Orokin. We don't really have any motives as to why we did this seeing the Sentients were trying eradicate them for being "woke" to their selfish ways. After driving away the Sentients for them, we were praised for our efforts. We, as players and Tenno, had no knowledge of Margulis' execution seeing how the Lotus was easily able to take her place without any suspicion. Sure, the Orokin were greedy self righteous pricks, but they did help us control our powers whether they liked us or not. We've been only used as weapons throughout the entire story line. Never being a master, only a puppet to those who've found ways to influence us to use our powers for some selfish gain. I think we'll see more of the MnW soon and I believe he thinks we're ready to fight HIS fight against the Sentients. They still can't adapt to the void but that's the purpose of the amalgams now. We have no where to run or hide at this point. Even when he (MnW) occasionally pops up on our ship, I think he's just messing with us psychologically to have curiosity of him possibly to trust him somewhere down the line. Mocking the lotus because he knows she's a fake though we didn't believe it to be true. I could care less of Natah's motives because they are becoming clear in a way. She's just following orders the same way a "Mimic" is supposed to function. They would shape shift and pretend to anything for however long it would take in order to complete an objective. He (MnW) is the only thing that keeps the origin system from fully be taken over by the Sentients. We are the only force that has capabilty of combating with them for now. Rell knew what was up and helped keep him away but since we set him free, we'll have to wait until the New War to know if he will play any role in this fight we're preparing for.
Another brilliant lore video (as they always are)! Since Jovian came out I’ve been sticking quite close to the lore due to a personal obsession with the Sentient faction - but this video has still been something I’ve been in deep anticipation of, given how well you always manage to draw stuff together. Natah’s twisty tale of loyalties and deception is something particularly interesting that I’ve enjoyed trying to theorise on in this update - typically perceiving the ‘Light’ to be (Pseudo?)Oro and ‘Golden Wrath’ to allude to the events of the Mag Prime codex (In which the Orokin sent fighters to Tau - perhaps an initial assault on the newly intelligent Sentient). There’s a lot of stuff still quite ambiguous about this faction, some of which I suppose we best hope comes to light in The New War, but I’ve very much enjoyed hearing your take from this update. Til next time! 👍👍👍👍👍
@@yokai1235 This. The Tenno wielded Warframes had 'pushed back' the sentient to tao and the Orokin took the fight to the sentient then after this battle was the end of the war. The outer terminus brought offline and the Tenno welcomed back... And of course the destruction of the Orokin...
@@traviscurbelo2000 she was sent by Hunhow to kill all remain Tennos but she was merciful and spared us u can hear her story why she spared us when doing Ropalolyst.
No , we must cripple the sentients, Kidnap the Lotus and then release her form her revenge as one who follows Principle, thou shal not give in to anger, much like the Stalker You don't want to be like the stalker; do U >:)
A great video, but I think you've ignored a potential story thread. Natah states: "Now I am saved. By family." This indicates that her return is not a passive process, but one actively spurred on, with another force being or having been directly involved in 'restoring' her. I use that phrase loosely, as it leaves an opposite possibility open to the one suggested. Her current state may be the mind-controlled one, being brainwashed into believing her change was a lie. Remembering that Hunhow said that the other Sentients would try to 'reclaim' her, this means both possibilities are equally likely - or even both at once, with a victim caught between two factions warring for her consciousness for their own ends. Natah has confirmed that mind control is involved - at that point, we must treat everything she says and has said as suspect. There's a lot of story potential either way. Natah as evil of course has a lot of benefits - betrayal, intrigue, abuse. It's a classic 'Darth Vader' story with a new twist. On the other hand, her being manipulated even more leads into another interesting plot possibility - the Sentients as, well, Sentient, and subsequently not all united. This element has been laid with the Eidolon, who came to the Origin system after the fall of the Orokin. There would have been no signal to do so, from what we know, which means that the Eidolon did this independently, without any questions of brainwashing like Natah. And where there's independent thought, there's rebellion, especially with big evil empires. DE is known to throw curveballs, and the New War being a Sentient Civil War we weigh in on to save the Lotus (or put her out of her misery), intentionally or otherwise, would be a pretty damn big curveball
I think there's something more to the helmet. It's not just a metaphor, in the apostasy prologue you hear echoes of margulis herself resonating from it. It may contain a final catharsis for the tenno, acting as closure to their long lost mother and letting them fight Natah unhampered by illusions of sentimentality and motherhood. We saw what we wanted to see; A mother, a lover. But for us to be free, love must die.
I wonder if Hunhow has a split opinion on this entire situation, due to having tangled with Suda and having befriended Ballas and the Stalker (who I believe is a 'willing Umbra' - what Umbra would have become if he stayed loyal to the Orokin in some far-flung theory).
I think the line in Stalker lore about him being a "low guardian" means he was a spectre. We know already they can talk and act independently from fighting them in the Rails, but they have a singular mindsetL whatever they were meant to guard/do, that's all they know and obsess over. Hence them guarding the rails still....hence Stalker "losing his way of life" and going off the deep end. He didn't die, but he no longer has a directive. So he turns to vengeance. He was a spectre that might have possible found a way to do transference into an actual warframe or maybe he just evolved to be more powerful than a normal spectre over the many years he was floating around the system. Back to your original topic though, I think Hunhow does have an ulterior motive. I feel like he wants control over the sentients. That's why he wanted to keep Natah from returning to the collective. He knew once she did they would see her as "riven" and "fix" her and he would lose a powerful ally
Given how Warframes (or atleast those that were directly created from humans) go berserk when not controlled by a tenno, my personal theory is that transference was momentarily cut during the victory ceremony. I think it was Ballas who cut the link because he wanted revenge for Margulis. Ballas was also in the best position to introduce Lotus as the replacement Margulis, so I think the sentients had a deal with Ballas who just double-crossed the sentients so he could have his revenge without sentients winning the war.
I've always viewed the Sentients as the "Borg" in the Star Trek stories. They both are a hive mind, both technologically advanced, both subjugate other races tech and more importantly both can easily adapt to any damage inflicted on em and nullify said damage. As the Borg always say "Resistance is Futile" which honestly I am waiting for the Sentients to come with their own similar line lol.
Just discovered your channel and so sad I didn’t find it sooner. I’m not afraid to admit that the warframe story completely passes over my head and no one wants to explain it so thank you for making me understand each bit of lore.
Wow, I never realized that there were Sentient ships in the sky until I saw 1:17. They're so damn ominous and creepy looking. And I love how they so obviously stand out.
the dialogue implies the denial was given to her by the void, like how the void gave us the powers we have, her sharing this power into her extensions allowing the rop and the amalgams to deny, since we know before the old war the main weaponry was made the same as the sentients which is why the weapons became of no use as those same weapons became whole again with the family they are apart of, that being why the orokin had to turn back to inventions of the duality vs the vain faith. and that golden wraith i think we can see having happened by mags entry as we know most things till us the sentient came to us, tho mags entry shows us going to them.
What if Wally is our friend? If he held Natah in the Void to keep her from harming us/the Solar system? Would explain the "You owe me" in TWW when you choose to get rid of the Kuva
It's more likely that he was referring to the Zariman incident. His bargain with the Tenno is the only reason they were able to fight off their feral parents.
Thanks for not calling it quit years ago when you were worried about not being able to regularly upload. These videos are amazing and I love learning the history of the game’s world through you. Thank you.
The lore for me is a little bit clear now, thank you. I think her lotus part is going to have mercy on us in the new war, I hope, I don't want to kill space mom :
Gray Lien With how much theories are in this video and comment section I’m so conflicted. I don’t want to get backstabbed but how can I kill my own space Mom :(
I think its a terrifying idea that Mimics can take the shape of a person. In other hand I really love how Im driven to think that the sentients must be killed, I love them as antagonists.
It was their plan to get back Lotus from the Tenno by using Ballas as a bait of sorts Then Ballas was suddenly lied to and he basically got bamboozled as they take Lotus from him and re-programmed her to Natah. But i'm not suprised because he basically made a deal with the devil
surprised you didnt mention how alad seams rather unwilling to be a pawn of the sentient... its not like he is intentionally going back to being vile to us. not only that, but with the death of the ropa, could it not mean alad flees away to come up with a new plan? after all, if this boss fight is cannon and it is actuly dead, this would be yet, ANOTHER time we have bailed him out of a terrible situation.
did you know you can access those sentient labs in caputra? if you get your back to a wall/ceiling I think, you can clip the camera out of bounds, then if you memorize where the lab is, you can fly in from under the floor to clip in.
When Natah said she had the ability to deny, I tried to use transference during the Ropalolyst fight, it didn't work. Due to her connection to us, I think she can force the tenno out of their warframes.
Man in the Wall is playing us all like fools. Hiding in the Void. I swear man nobody understands what Rell found and what it really means. Also i wanna gut space granny for turning mom into her slave. I don't care about the betrayal, I'm gonna bring mom back to her senses and save her from her abusive parents. For the sake of Margulis, and because i feel sorry for Ballas. Getting mutilated like that from the Sentients is a fate worse than death. They loved each other. She doesn't sound like herself. I love her too much to hurt her. After how far she went to protect us in the second dream from hunhow, it would feel like I'm hurting margulis, and i simply can't do that with a clear conscience. I want her and Ballas back on my side, alongside uncle teshin and aunt eudico. One big happy family.
@@HunhowsShadowStalker Not true. It always depends on whether or not you have the will to make it happen. I'll save her because i know I'm right, and that it's objectively the best thing to do. Unlike some others i don't writhe in pessimistic ignorance or lose faith so easily.
@@ThunderTheBlackShadowKitty And what if she declines? What if she flat-out refuses to come back? You can hope all you want, but hope won't fix everything, especially when the person you're hoping to change refuses to.
Lotus/ Natah is a puppet, she always was one. There's no way you can bring a puppet back to its senses if they never had a mind of their own. I genuinely hope we get to kill or get rid of her because whatever happens she will remember all of it. Her death will be a merciful one, trust me. Besides how can you trust someone who initially hid very important information away from you, runs away with an orokin and is now out here to kill you and your fellow Tennos? Nahh she got to go. Ordis is better anyway >.>
In the Sacrifice if you read correctly, Ballas explain that the orokins attacked first. "And so We came to war" is what he says to describe the start of the war, combining that with Mage Prime codex entry you can confirm that Orokin stroke first, and Natah again confirms it on the Ropalolyst dialogue.
Will Alad try to adapt the process of making amalgams to be more "portable"? It seems with the Saturn 6 operatives and now the corpus units, they need to be engineered in the labs on jupiter? Could there be a development towards subsuming independent humans by assimilating them?
Tenno is just being flung all around space and everyone's like "You're the fucking hero, fix this!" Or "Aw, shit. Here comes that kid to break all our stuff! Kill em!"
it still puzzles me as to what the man in the wall wants. And what role he plays in all this. I have a feeling the tenno, the sentients. all pawns in some larger scheme
In what quest line do the Sentient's use Suda? Is it during the Octavia quests? And how do you reach the room seen at 2:47 and 10:07? I've never seen them before.
So as this was uploading I connected some bits of lore and I feel stupid for not including them in the video. I admit I straight up forgot about Ballas' whole betrayal plot twist thing, so the actual motivations / events would have went like this:
Margulis gets killed > Ballas gets mad > Ballas works with Hunhow and Natah to make her into a spy > Ballas brainwashes Natah to be more like Margulis and love the Tenno > Natah still orchestrates the Slaughter at the Terminus in accordance with the sequence and Ballas' revenge > Ballas' brainwashing stops her from completing the sequence and awakening Hunhow > Natah / Lotus, worried for the Tenno's safety, disappears with the Moon into the Void because her brainwashing says "Protecc babs" > Ballaspikachuface.jpg
Again, feel pretty dumb I forgot to put all those pieces together, but it IS pretty dang twisty.
Love your lore videos and voice (ﾉ*>∀
I had similar conclusion few weeks ago xD Glad you pointed it out here Stall !
U r truly our tenno scholar,dope lore vid.
Love your vids mate
StallordD I feel like the orokin captured her when she entered our system and then used Natah as the Tenno mother, forging her mind with Margulis, in order to lead the tenno into battle as a weapon.
And so the twisty tale continues... Thanks for sharing :D
Yee
@Neusxanity ye
to be fair their comment was a week late lol
Such a shame that we have to look this stuff up on CZcams and not have it presented to us ingame via cinematics.
Dear DE: More lore pls. Then we get more vids like these.
Alad: "My my Lotus, you would make quite the villain"
Then Natah bullies him with the Ropalolyst.
He guessed right.
De were hinting at the future updates and i thought nothing of it .
I always loved that sentence and always agreed with Alad. I'm glad Lotus now is the villain
"Alad V was right"
Salad V did nothing wrong
@@Raikeran By the Void! That's why Alad was smiling!
Alad V in a nutshell:"I can't keep myself out of trouble and it's a miracle i'm still alive! Let's bargain with beings that dislike us!"
I mean, it's said in the video that he didn't know he was bargaining with the Sentients at the time. It was a Mimic.
@@celestialkitsune and he tried to get out of it but natah sent the ropalolyst
Alad V: I’ve come to bargain.
Sentients: You’ve come to die.
Natah, I've come to bargain.
Sentient Granny: Good, good...let the HATE flow through you!
Tenno: *Loads Umbra Tigris with malicious intent*
Sentient Granny: Wait, that's too much hate...THAT'S TOO MUCH HATE! STAHP!!
@@alias588 if only but then it could get nerfed
@@alias588 *RIP AND TEAR INTINSIFIES*
czcams.com/video/JjBywY4l6c4/video.html
You mean Salad V
The Orokin: Let's brainwash natah into being the mother of the tenno.
The lotus: Uses the tenno to destroy the orokin.
The Orokin: ...
Tenno: Let's kill all faction
this is reason why I believe we may be mislead by what we were told during ropalolyst mission, I think lotus/natah may be manipulated by her mother, there are parts that simply make no sense, I mean how its possible that orokin programed into her loyality to tenno that didnt fail this whole time until she was taken by balas, and yet they wouldnt program into her inability to turn agains them ?
Information about being imprisoned on moon makes even less sense seeing how lotus possesed knowledge how to bring out moon from void, why would orokin informed her about it if she was reprogramed by them and imprisoned on the moon.
also during new war trailer natah seems pretty lost about what to do and her talk with her mother seems more like her mother is trying to manipulate her into turning against tenno....
@@Culaio Exactly, it makes no sence how the Lotus talks of the Corpus as they are the original creators and how the Orokin brainwashed her, it clearly seems that she was brainwashed by the Mother.
@@cephalonhope8006 StallordD
and some people believe it was ballas among the orokin who overseen her reprograming but I dont buy that and thats supposedly reason why she turned against orokin, his revenge for killing woman he loved, from sacrifice quest we saw that ballas was cooperating with sentients before orokin were destroyed so reprograming natah would in no way help sentients, if he really had hand in her reprogramming why wouldnt he program into her to turn against tenno, to manipulate them and guide them into death in some trap, it would be easy for her to guide them into large spaceship rigged to explode, I know in the ropalolyst mission she mentions she was inprisoned on Lua but the problem with that is that we know from second dream she knows how to extract lua from void which means if she was repogramed she could have escaped the whole time but she didnt, which means that either ballas didnt program into her to try to escape prison he put her into(which would make no sense since he was ally with sentients) or it wasnt a prison and she stayed there by choice...
Natah being reprogramed by orokin simply doesnt make sense based on info we have.
@@Culaio Exactly, by what she told us she had a chnage of heart once she saw the Tenno, if she was siding whit the Orokin it would make no sence for her to help the Tenno get this strong and in no way would she have hidden the existence of Sentients, raising super human children that can kill hundreds of your kind is kinda dumb.
*Alad:* "Imma perform experiments on sentient tech! What could go wrong?"
*Infested:* (laughs in technocyte virus)
*Valkyr:* (manical laughter while ripping apart Zanuka)
*Regor:* (raises fists in anger)
*Acolytes:* (dead silence but probably laughing as well)
ballas: (laughs in orokin)
@@aperson6077 Tenno: *Laughs in V O I D*
Rell laughs in ship.
nef anyo laughs in profit
*Natah:* (laughs in space mom)
8:22 Oh good god! that thing was a Crewman!
Gun Nut productions I THOUGHT IT WAS A NORMAL METAL PART, GOD THAT THING IS WEIRD
F
StarlordD could narrate the entire Warframe Codex in one video, and it would be well worth listening to.
Lore Master
If the story ever comes to a completed end, it would make an amazing film that could rival Hollywoods biggest.
StarlorD would definitely be required to explain the twisted web.
Zelousmarineinspace I think Byf would be the better choice. He’s more of a narrator and a wordsmith
Make him a Cephalon of history!
I don't take what she says at face value for one simple reason. Hunhow said as soon as the others got hold of her, they would 'fix' Natah. That is exactly what happened, so now Natah has to explain and justify her prior behavior.
This, and with the sound of Space Grandma in the teaser last year being super manipulative, I feel like Natah is simple 'reverse brainwashed'. She has yet to actually have been given a choice of freedom to choose between Natah or the Lotus.
@@MakutaNazo Then there is the fact she is the Mimic Queen. Could be this is her way of preparing us for the war now that it is an inevitability. Give Ballas the tools to create the Paracesis blueprint in a way the tenno could build, focus on Alad making scary and threatening but ultimately beatable monsters, and alad specifically because he's smart enough to connect the dots. Him being steamrolled by the ropololyst is a reminder 'you nee the tenno to get rid of the shielding soyour other units can kill this thing.' Plus there is ambiguity in her final lines. She is Judge and Exicutioner... but of Whom? Us? Them? Everyone?
Plus I instantly distrust when all sides are going /KILL/. I've played enough legacy of kain to smell a hidden hand.
When Hunhow said fixing her, he probably meant undoing the brainwashing, as it would seem he was aware or became aware due to his interaction with Ballas.
It could be interpreted as Hunhow recognizing that something was awry with her behavior and she was not fully herself, either through paternal intuition or through contact with Ballas, and wanted to free her from this control.
@@singletona082 I keep hearing and reading people say that Lotus is the Mimic Queen. Do you mean literally the Queen of the Mimic class of Sentients or Mimic as a title given to her due to her deception and ability to shapeshift?
I think the last part about sentients' light joining the rest also makes sense from the new disruption game mode's transmissions. Alad is forced to lure us with "rewards" making us kill the amalgams, furthering their knowledge on how to fight the tenno.
it's going to be hard to lure Tenno in with so many of them telling him the rewards aren't even good
Also, how much can you really learn from getting killed by Mesa 4 in 2 seconds?
With the Man in the Wall being mentioned, I find very curious the connection of a Harrow's alt helmet to the Ropalolyst in design perspective
YOOOOOOO!!!!
I knew there was something familiar about its face 😮
YES my warframe lore fix
What if the story of Natah being brainwashed into being the Lotus is either itself a result of recent brainwashing by the sentients or a face-saver by Natah in order to not be seen as a traitor by her kind?
This would open up the possibility of winning her back to our side, and to give her the chance to become our mother once again, this time as her true self, consciously and genuinely. That would be what I wish for the story.
Imagine if they made it one big community event to collectively decide Natah's fate.
Ballas said that Lotus was a lie himself in the chimera prologue. That said though. If the sentient are truly sentient then any change to their minds (reprogramming into anotber being) would have an effect that couldn't simply be undone. She will continue to remember us as she saw us, and that does leave the possibility of bringing her back, but i wouldn't count on it.
Reminds me of a book i love where the main character had to mask his appearance and mind behind that of another and once his mind returned back after a predetermined amount of time he had the memories of both and simply couldn't see himself as the person he was, but someone new and different to either.
@@cry0genic52 Chasm City by Alistair Reynolds. It's part of a hard sci-fi series by the author (Revalation Space is the series).
kill her for a new warframe and new mods
man.. for once i hope we have a good ending like this..
I hope we kill her. Honestly in the sacrifice if Umbra hadnt stepped in to grab the operator she would've blasted a hole in your Tenno.
There are 4 Lotus:
Natah before the old war
Natah with Margulis memories
Lotus
New Natah who is a mixture of all of them in one being
This new form of her cleary has lapses in memory as we can tell from the Erra quest when she thinks she is still in the old war
Stallord always on point with the lore bits. I always look forward to hear what you have to say though I try to figure some things out myself. Never would I have guessed her helmet was the mind control device. It made so much sense during the Apostasy Prologue quest now.
What bugs me is the fact that I think she had been slowly beginning to regain her memories even before Hunhow's awakening. It was weird to see her not only acknowledge him as her father right away with said helmet still in use, but seemingly just lie to us Tenno for our "safety." That should've been a red flag for us seeing nobody knew her true origins fully and once revealed, she was like, "Yep, you caught me, sorry about that." I believe role was wasn't just to kill us off, but to keep the Man in the Wall from having full control over of us. He has infiltrated our minds by way of our connection to the void. He taunts us throughout the game. Maybe this also explains what happened when we attacked the Orokin. We don't really have any motives as to why we did this seeing the Sentients were trying eradicate them for being "woke" to their selfish ways.
After driving away the Sentients for them, we were praised for our efforts. We, as players and Tenno, had no knowledge of Margulis' execution seeing how the Lotus was easily able to take her place without any suspicion. Sure, the Orokin were greedy self righteous pricks, but they did help us control our powers whether they liked us or not. We've been only used as weapons throughout the entire story line. Never being a master, only a puppet to those who've found ways to influence us to use our powers for some selfish gain. I think we'll see more of the MnW soon and I believe he thinks we're ready to fight HIS fight against the Sentients. They still can't adapt to the void but that's the purpose of the amalgams now. We have no where to run or hide at this point. Even when he (MnW) occasionally pops up on our ship, I think he's just messing with us psychologically to have curiosity of him possibly to trust him somewhere down the line. Mocking the lotus because he knows she's a fake though we didn't believe it to be true.
I could care less of Natah's motives because they are becoming clear in a way. She's just following orders the same way a "Mimic" is supposed to function. They would shape shift and pretend to anything for however long it would take in order to complete an objective. He (MnW) is the only thing that keeps the origin system from fully be taken over by the Sentients. We are the only force that has capabilty of combating with them for now. Rell knew what was up and helped keep him away but since we set him free, we'll have to wait until the New War to know if he will play any role in this fight we're preparing for.
Another brilliant lore video (as they always are)!
Since Jovian came out I’ve been sticking quite close to the lore due to a personal obsession with the Sentient faction - but this video has still been something I’ve been in deep anticipation of, given how well you always manage to draw stuff together.
Natah’s twisty tale of loyalties and deception is something particularly interesting that I’ve enjoyed trying to theorise on in this update - typically perceiving the ‘Light’ to be (Pseudo?)Oro and ‘Golden Wrath’ to allude to the events of the Mag Prime codex (In which the Orokin sent fighters to Tau - perhaps an initial assault on the newly intelligent Sentient).
There’s a lot of stuff still quite ambiguous about this faction, some of which I suppose we best hope comes to light in The New War, but I’ve very much enjoyed hearing your take from this update.
Til next time!
👍👍👍👍👍
so mag prime prime events happens after as the warframes were created as a response to the sentient invasion
@@yokai1235 This. The Tenno wielded Warframes had 'pushed back' the sentient to tao and the Orokin took the fight to the sentient then after this battle was the end of the war. The outer terminus brought offline and the Tenno welcomed back... And of course the destruction of the Orokin...
Thanks for bringing much needed portion of info for me. Keep us updated whenever you find out something new about The Lore :D
"Info for me" Pretty sure he didnt make the video for you. He doesn't even know who tf you are
ZyoH you must be fun at life
ZyoH “keep us updated” please read the whole thing before judging
Now that explain why Natah was inside Lua. I've been confused about that since the Prologue
Thanks for the video
Why was she inside lua?
@@traviscurbelo2000 she was sent by Hunhow to kill all remain Tennos but she was merciful and spared us u can hear her story why she spared us when doing Ropalolyst.
LOTUS IS IN THERE SOMEWHERE
EVEN IF I HAVE TO GET MY HANDS KNEE DEEP IN HELL TO GET HER
BRING THE FUCKING DOOM MUSIC! I'M COMMING FOR YOU, HUNHOW
GIVE ME BACK MY SPACE MOM !
Give me back my Orokin friends.
@@HunhowsShadowStalker they never liked you
I WILL PERSONALLY THROW SPACE MOM INTO THE SUN
No , we must cripple the sentients, Kidnap the Lotus and then release her form her revenge
as one who follows Principle, thou shal not give in to anger, much like the Stalker
You don't want to be like the stalker; do U >:)
Sunquad Fuck the Lotus. Let the past die. Love must die.
A great video, but I think you've ignored a potential story thread. Natah states: "Now I am saved. By family."
This indicates that her return is not a passive process, but one actively spurred on, with another force being or having been directly involved in 'restoring' her. I use that phrase loosely, as it leaves an opposite possibility open to the one suggested. Her current state may be the mind-controlled one, being brainwashed into believing her change was a lie. Remembering that Hunhow said that the other Sentients would try to 'reclaim' her, this means both possibilities are equally likely - or even both at once, with a victim caught between two factions warring for her consciousness for their own ends. Natah has confirmed that mind control is involved - at that point, we must treat everything she says and has said as suspect.
There's a lot of story potential either way. Natah as evil of course has a lot of benefits - betrayal, intrigue, abuse. It's a classic 'Darth Vader' story with a new twist. On the other hand, her being manipulated even more leads into another interesting plot possibility - the Sentients as, well, Sentient, and subsequently not all united. This element has been laid with the Eidolon, who came to the Origin system after the fall of the Orokin. There would have been no signal to do so, from what we know, which means that the Eidolon did this independently, without any questions of brainwashing like Natah. And where there's independent thought, there's rebellion, especially with big evil empires. DE is known to throw curveballs, and the New War being a Sentient Civil War we weigh in on to save the Lotus (or put her out of her misery), intentionally or otherwise, would be a pretty damn big curveball
Ahh, my daily dose of bedtime story
I'm surprised u didnt mention anything about Wolf of Saturn Six and him being on sentient juice from Alad. Would like to see something about him.
Been wondering when we'd see your next lore video. Thanks for making these :)
I think there's something more to the helmet. It's not just a metaphor, in the apostasy prologue you hear echoes of margulis herself resonating from it. It may contain a final catharsis for the tenno, acting as closure to their long lost mother and letting them fight Natah unhampered by illusions of sentimentality and motherhood.
We saw what we wanted to see; A mother, a lover.
But for us to be free, love must die.
Always a pleasure, thanks for the videos bruh.
I wonder if Hunhow has a split opinion on this entire situation, due to having tangled with Suda and having befriended Ballas and the Stalker (who I believe is a 'willing Umbra' - what Umbra would have become if he stayed loyal to the Orokin in some far-flung theory).
I think the line in Stalker lore about him being a "low guardian" means he was a spectre. We know already they can talk and act independently from fighting them in the Rails, but they have a singular mindsetL whatever they were meant to guard/do, that's all they know and obsess over. Hence them guarding the rails still....hence Stalker "losing his way of life" and going off the deep end. He didn't die, but he no longer has a directive. So he turns to vengeance. He was a spectre that might have possible found a way to do transference into an actual warframe or maybe he just evolved to be more powerful than a normal spectre over the many years he was floating around the system. Back to your original topic though, I think Hunhow does have an ulterior motive. I feel like he wants control over the sentients. That's why he wanted to keep Natah from returning to the collective. He knew once she did they would see her as "riven" and "fix" her and he would lose a powerful ally
Pretty sure Ballas has unfriended Hunhow considering he gave us a sentient killing weapon.
Given how Warframes (or atleast those that were directly created from humans) go berserk when not controlled by a tenno, my personal theory is that transference was momentarily cut during the victory ceremony.
I think it was Ballas who cut the link because he wanted revenge for Margulis.
Ballas was also in the best position to introduce Lotus as the replacement Margulis, so I think the sentients had a deal with Ballas who just double-crossed the sentients so he could have his revenge without sentients winning the war.
Another great video. I enjoy these a lot. Thanks for explaining some more lore!
I've always viewed the Sentients as the "Borg" in the Star Trek stories. They both are a hive mind, both technologically advanced, both subjugate other races tech and more importantly both can easily adapt to any damage inflicted on em and nullify said damage. As the Borg always say "Resistance is Futile" which honestly I am waiting for the Sentients to come with their own similar line lol.
They are most definitely not a hive mind what
Just discovered your channel and so sad I didn’t find it sooner. I’m not afraid to admit that the warframe story completely passes over my head and no one wants to explain it so thank you for making me understand each bit of lore.
Wow, I never realized that there were Sentient ships in the sky until I saw 1:17. They're so damn ominous and creepy looking. And I love how they so obviously stand out.
the dialogue implies the denial was given to her by the void, like how the void gave us the powers we have, her sharing this power into her extensions allowing the rop and the amalgams to deny, since we know before the old war the main weaponry was made the same as the sentients which is why the weapons became of no use as those same weapons became whole again with the family they are apart of, that being why the orokin had to turn back to inventions of the duality vs the vain faith. and that golden wraith i think we can see having happened by mags entry as we know most things till us the sentient came to us, tho mags entry shows us going to them.
Really in depth and informative, to the point with no filler, PERFECT Lore video :D
Love your lore videos dude. Keep it up.
Man don't stop with the Great content it's so informative knows me understand the Warframe universe better even if it's not fully established yet
Been waiting for this video
Yay, youre back.
Now we just have to wait around 6 months or more for the next warframe content.
What if Wally is our friend? If he held Natah in the Void to keep her from harming us/the Solar system? Would explain the "You owe me" in TWW when you choose to get rid of the Kuva
It's more likely that he was referring to the Zariman incident. His bargain with the Tenno is the only reason they were able to fight off their feral parents.
Taenlyn yes...but, it could be what sergeant said too
Love the vids stallord keep up the good work
Thanks for your video man, I played the whole event and did some playing on the new tile set but I really didn't get any of the lore, so thanks man!
I’ve been waiting for this video :3
Thanks for not calling it quit years ago when you were worried about not being able to regularly upload. These videos are amazing and I love learning the history of the game’s world through you. Thank you.
Fun isn’t something one considers when analysing Warframe lore, but this does put a smile on my face
Amazing work, Tenno.
i wish i learned this much about the game by just playing it. Your videos are a great help.
I cant wait til this all comes together and The Man in the Wall makes his move finally
i always look forward to these videos
Everyone of these videos is like waiting to take my next hit of crack. It takes a while, but it’s totally worth it.
The lore for me is a little bit clear now, thank you.
I think her lotus part is going to have mercy on us in the new war, I hope, I don't want to kill space mom :
Me too 🙁
Nah, get your Paracesis ready bois, we going Space mom hunting!
Hopefully we get to make a choice I really don’t want to kill her
Gray Lien With how much theories are in this video and comment section I’m so conflicted. I don’t want to get backstabbed but how can I kill my own space Mom :(
@@tsunamie1015 yep with 8 other people
You are seriously the VaatiVidya of Warframe and I LOVE IT.
I was waiting for this, I thought we lost you for a sec
I think its a terrifying idea that Mimics can take the shape of a person. In other hand I really love how Im driven to think that the sentients must be killed, I love them as antagonists.
I was waiting for this.
this dude really be out here bringing a braton to fight the ropalolyst
Oh God's. Your back
You're back!
Poor Ballas.
He just wanted his wife back.
Probably the first guy we'll come in contact with in the new war is Ballas
@@thecommentguy9380 he gave us the paraceis so 😂
Good job. A very good video!!!
Imagine in the future where we face of natah and then at the final moments we are given the choice to kill or to not kill
I wouldn't be surprised if Natah/Lotus isn't fully herself. I think Hunhow and Mother could have reprogrammed her after she was "freed" by Ballas.
It was their plan to get back Lotus from the Tenno by using Ballas as a bait of sorts
Then Ballas was suddenly lied to and he basically got bamboozled as they take Lotus from him and re-programmed her to Natah. But i'm not suprised because he basically made a deal with the devil
Bro. There's new lore. Please upload MOAR!!!!!!
You were doing the Ropalolyst with Excalibur, Skana and Braton...? Damn!
Bravo well done.
I’ve spent so much of this gaming ignoring lore and now it feels like I’m being hit by a brick wall of “OH SHIIIIIIIT”
Finally a new story easier to understand
surprised you didnt mention how alad seams rather unwilling to be a pawn of the sentient... its not like he is intentionally going back to being vile to us. not only that, but with the death of the ropa, could it not mean alad flees away to come up with a new plan? after all, if this boss fight is cannon and it is actuly dead, this would be yet, ANOTHER time we have bailed him out of a terrible situation.
JUST IN FUCKING TIME!
I saw a dkdiamantes lore vid and then i knew i had to check up on the best lore master!
4:52
Hunhow: *sends sentient deployers*
Excal: "ah shit, here we go again"
Lotus : "The sentient has adapted to your damage, try something different."
Excal: "presses 4, spams E E E E E E E E E E "
did you know you can access those sentient labs in caputra? if you get your back to a wall/ceiling I think, you can clip the camera out of bounds, then if you memorize where the lab is, you can fly in from under the floor to clip in.
i need hear more about this....
4:54 i believe this much on Excalibur
thank you so much
Alad V: Ima make sum super units, and there ALL MINE
Nyx, Inaros,Revenant, and Nekros: *Draws a Reverse UNO card*
When Natah said she had the ability to deny, I tried to use transference during the Ropalolyst fight, it didn't work. Due to her connection to us, I think she can force the tenno out of their warframes.
so it was her interference huh? when i first fought Ropa, i thought it was a bug
Man in the Wall is playing us all like fools. Hiding in the Void. I swear man nobody understands what Rell found and what it really means. Also i wanna gut space granny for turning mom into her slave.
I don't care about the betrayal, I'm gonna bring mom back to her senses and save her from her abusive parents. For the sake of Margulis, and because i feel sorry for Ballas. Getting mutilated like that from the Sentients is a fate worse than death. They loved each other. She doesn't sound like herself. I love her too much to hurt her. After how far she went to protect us in the second dream from hunhow, it would feel like I'm hurting margulis, and i simply can't do that with a clear conscience. I want her and Ballas back on my side, alongside uncle teshin and aunt eudico. One big happy family.
Life isn't a fairy tale. You need to accept that you can't always get a happy ending.
@@HunhowsShadowStalker Not true. It always depends on whether or not you have the will to make it happen. I'll save her because i know I'm right, and that it's objectively the best thing to do. Unlike some others i don't writhe in pessimistic ignorance or lose faith so easily.
@@ThunderTheBlackShadowKitty And what if she declines? What if she flat-out refuses to come back? You can hope all you want, but hope won't fix everything, especially when the person you're hoping to change refuses to.
Ballas is an asshole who got what he deserved. Lotus can die too. I do hope we get a new person besides holo-lotus to give us mission directives.
Lotus/ Natah is a puppet, she always was one. There's no way you can bring a puppet back to its senses if they never had a mind of their own. I genuinely hope we get to kill or get rid of her because whatever happens she will remember all of it. Her death will be a merciful one, trust me. Besides how can you trust someone who initially hid very important information away from you, runs away with an orokin and is now out here to kill you and your fellow Tennos? Nahh she got to go. Ordis is better anyway >.>
I believe it's time for the last Orokin monstrosity to be put down, and for the Tenno to be set _free_ .
In the Sacrifice if you read correctly, Ballas explain that the orokins attacked first. "And so We came to war" is what he says to describe the start of the war, combining that with Mage Prime codex entry you can confirm that Orokin stroke first, and Natah again confirms it on the Ropalolyst dialogue.
now with the possibility of new war coming up, I cant help but wonder if natah will try to 'protecc babs' again
And now we are in 2020 and ropalolyst got sliced and used as power source for the new crewships (can be seen in some crewship spy missions)
Now that you mention it the ropalolyst does look a lot like natah without the human head.
I believe the ropalolyst is a fragment of the lotus, just like how the war is a fragment of hunhow
I love how the darkness in destiny is the sentients in warframe in a nutshell. FeelsBadMan
Shit is about to hit the fan
I was lost right from the beginning.
Thanks man :D you're better explaining the plot than DE, hope someday they will hire you!
DE doesn't actively explain.
@@leoterss it's always question marks, and references of references, vague poetic stuff and always a lot of room for interpretations
Wait ,in the deadlock protocol update,in a spy mission you can find the corpes of the ropalolyst being analyzed
Can not wait for the new war
Finally man! I've been waiting for you to upload about the Corpus Amalgams!
Will Alad try to adapt the process of making amalgams to be more "portable"? It seems with the Saturn 6 operatives and now the corpus units, they need to be engineered in the labs on jupiter? Could there be a development towards subsuming independent humans by assimilating them?
6:48
I thought he said “seas of urine” for a second
The amalgam design is so... interesting
I've only just realized the Ropalolist has a head and face
5:10 hold on a sec, these things in the background looks like ropalolyst, so that means...welp, must wait for new war.
Experiencing new Warframe lore is like getting high, but better.
Tenno is just being flung all around space and everyone's like "You're the fucking hero, fix this!" Or "Aw, shit. Here comes that kid to break all our stuff! Kill em!"
it still puzzles me as to what the man in the wall wants. And what role he plays in all this. I have a feeling the tenno, the sentients. all pawns in some larger scheme
In what quest line do the Sentient's use Suda? Is it during the Octavia quests? And how do you reach the room seen at 2:47 and 10:07? I've never seen them before.
Hey bb i saw u hd no views so i decided to watch your video. Honestly a really well thought video. Where do you get all your indormation from?
311 likes 0 dislikes.
now thats a StallordD video.