Used BMW i3: New Transmission & Motor Needed on a Car With Less Than 30k Miles
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- An i3 owner who recently privately purchased a 2013 BMW i3 decided to bring the car to us as it experienced a severe drivetrain problem - the car would start and no warning messages were present, but it would not move (accompanied by terrible noise).
Cause of the problem? Incorrectly installed transmission with insufficient greasing leading to the splines of the connecting shafts wearing down. Given the tight integration of the components, the entire drive unit (electric motor and transmission) needed replacing. Brand new, the parts alone would cost over £5,700, but we managed to source a used unit for a fraction of that figure.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction
01:53 Problem
05:37 Solution
08:57 Conclusion - Auta a dopravní prostředky
It's little-known i3's electric drivetrain isn't a BMW development but origins from a UK based engineering firm. Source is an early engineering presentation and the powerpoints clearly state the name of that firm.
Another great video which again illustrates Wisely’s depth of knowledge of i3’s and their quest to find solutions to problems.
Beautifully explained in perfect English from a non native speaker.
Excellent explanation of the i3 and information. I wish we had you here in the US offering these services for our aging i3s.
I am not looking😲 forward to do such repairs. On 2015 i3. With 156,123 km ! so far so good 🤞🏾🤞🏾
superlative knowledge, skills, dedication, and honesty.
You put BMW agents to shame on every level.. ( not that they care LOL )
Excellent informative video as usual from you guy’s. Thanks for taking the time to do it.
Great video - hope it won't apply in the future to our 2019 i3. One thing for sure - I'd trust Wisely to sort this problem out way more than my local BMW dealer...
This kind of documentation work is so valuable- thanks!
This video, like all of your other ones, was excellent. The content, organization, script and presentation were all superb. It's clear that you put a lot of work into your presentations.
I bought my first 3 series in 1983 and had an overheating problem that the ‘Franchised’ dealer misdiagnosed twice, refusing to refund me until BMW confirmed that the replacement part was faulty. I took the car to an independent expert (highly recommended by a client) and it took him five minutes to diagnose the real reason the car overheated, a head gasket. He repaired it for £50 whilst I sat with his wife in the kitchen eating baked beans. Don looked after all 19 of my subsequent BMWs. Wisely are made from the same cloth, technically adept and obviously utterly reliable. Franchised Dealers the world over see customers as punters and Wisely deserve all the success they are enjoying 👍
Don sounds like the kind of guy who'd have a seat on our bench, though not sure we (or anyone) could replace a head gasket for £50 these days!
We really enjoyed reading your comment and thank you for your kind words! We hope that BMW #19 is an i3, or if not that #20 will be 🙂
@@wiselyauto I intend to buy a 42kwh version and I understand the end of leases coming up in October will provide the perfect opportunity. I do believe it will be my 20th Beemer.
Love you guys for spreading all this info for the i3 community!
As a BMW motorcycle owner, the spline on that drive shaft also fails and for the same lack of lubrication reason
Again a great video from your channel, thanks so much!
Really great video .Thanks for your thorough approach .Great to see there are still people who are passionate about knowledge and workmanship.
Thanks for the vid, very interesting
Nice investigative work. Lucky customer that had you to look after their car.
Thank so much for easing my mind on this.
Great to know !!! Thank you, tons !!!
Interesting, thank you.
That was very interesting good work with cost solution
Great video, and a great approach to the repair. It's a shame your so far away. I would love to have an i3/ ev specialist close to me (north west). Hopefully we'll see them pop up soon.
Martin, your English is impeccable. Bravo!
Great video if a little scary for us i3 owners !
On my 3rd i3 (2019). Hoping to pick up a 2021 in the next year or 2. Luv these cars!
Brilliant video as always. Interesting that the mounts hadn’t been upgraded
All of your video on i3 are very informative. Another common issue is the HV compressor, the replacement cost could be very high, any interest to share your experience on that ?
Flippin' YIKES....!!! 😲
Great video... but poor i3 owner... 😟
The moment the oil drained from the GRU I could see that it was fine. Do that on any Hyundai/Kia prior to the E-GMP series and you'll be greeted with black oil due to a design mistake. Instead of a drain plug with a fixed magnet, they used a loosely-fitted non-serviceable magnet that fails to sequester wear particles.
That's a really bad fault.
Luckily your great expertise saved the day!
Good video but I can't agree with your assessment of the fault. Once assembled the splined areas of the output/input should be essentially static and require no grease. The BMW blog you showed is likely talking about the actual bearing surfaces of the output, not the splined area. The fault you saw would most likely be because the splines were slightly different between the 2013 motor and 2018 gearbox...close enough to work for a while but sloppy enough that over time wear occurred and the eventual failure of the female splines.
www.greencarreports.com/news/1082061_bmw-activee-motor-failures-the-price-of-leasing-a-test-car
“The drivetrain housing assembly in those vehicles may not have been adequately sealed at the factory, meaning that gear shaft was not sufficiently lubricated.
Over time, the connection between the electric drive motor and the gear assembly could become worn--and fail suddenly
In the case of this sudden failure--experienced by more than a dozen BMW ActiveE drivers--the loss of lubrication over time would cause the gear to grind on the electric motor output shaft until one or more splines failed”
@@wiselyauto Interesting. When one reads the actual recall documents even they do not clearly describe the failure or show failed parts, except for a failed transmission input seal.
www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2011/BMW/ACTIVEE#recalls
I believe the failed splines they are referring to occur on the other side of the transmission input shaft, inside the transmission, caused by low oil level in the transmission due to the faulty input seal. Their picture of a failed seal (#47) shows oil glistening on the housing and pooling up below it. I also notice that your car had the improved motor output with the closed end, as opposed to the older open-ended part shown in picture #26 of the repair bulletin.
In any case, did you notice leaking lubricant/a failed transmission input seal on this car? When you show the motor output the metal shavings appear dry and powdery, not as you would expect if there was indeed a failed input seal.
I get your point regarding the splined interface being a static connection. I am guessing the wear on both sides of the connection caused the failure that they fixed by sticking on a new or salvaged gearbox - which gave just enough bite for long enough to move the car on to an unsuspecting new owner!
There are many high mileage i3s out there that have not suffered the failure so I wonder what caused it? Maybe the bolts between the original gearbox and motor came slightly loose allowing movement. Or there was a tiny alignment fault in the manufacture of the motor or gearbox. With the torque coming out of the motor, that connection has to be 100% perfect but then for it to be that perfect (tight) it would be very hard to assemble
It's not really static if the motor turns backwards in reverse. The joint will rock slightly with each change in direction. I do think your idea about the splines being different is plausible. Maybe that later gear boxes have a harder temper than the older motor splines. If that's the case, you could consider the gear box and motor to be a matched set so, you should never switch just one.
@@gap9992 having now had a chance to think it all through, consult with a few people and generally assess all the evidence available to us, we have reached the conclusion that your theory is likely the most accurate. We believe that BOTH the teeth/splines on the original trans/motor wore down to the point where the transfer of power was inhibited (Why? This we'll never know but you have offered some reasonable suggestions). Then... whether knowingly or unknowingly, the (lesser) wear on the motor's splines was not addressed and a new trans was fitted. The fresh teeth on the brand new input shaft provided just enough bite to keep the power transferring for a few thousand more miles / to sell the car to an unsuspecting new owner. Second time round, the failure happens faster and is more pronounced, as this time there is a bit of slop/play between the fresh teeth and the already pre-worn splines on the motor output. It could almost be argued that a lower mileage car is more susceptible to this wearing down due to the constant switching of torque direction.
Had me worried as my car is a 2013 70 plus K on the clock, until you mentioned the gearbox on this one was replaced in 2018.
Awsome analysis. Salvaged parts are the correct solution. However, there is another option: duplicate the parts. You can disassemble the spline and mated shaft and bring them to a machinist. The parts can be perfectly duplicated and hardened. It wont be cheap but it is an option if BMW is unwilling to sell the spline and mated shaft.
I was thinking of the same.
But as he mentioned internal spline integral to the rotor which is (almost) perfectly balanced in the factory with lots of permanent magnets and laminated sheets which are (I guess) riveted together.
Thank you so much for this! And congrats on the award from the Auto trader. I bought my first i3 120ah and just love it. Also what’s your thoughts on newly announced bmw ix1, it’s being touted as the successor for i3
Impressive video. It is honest accounts of issues with new technology like this which will persuade me to take the ev plunge. If you could still get a new i3 I'd be interested but they stopped taking orders in July [a mistake by BMW IMO]. The 'lifetime oil' bmw bullshit also applies to their ZF automatic gearboxes which need new fluid at least every 80,000 miles. Costs £300-£400 but means your box is good for maybe 200k & gives you peace of mind.
A very interesting report. With the recent wet weather and floods I would be very grateful to learnr the degree to which an i3 can be driven through floods and where do damage risks occur. With the battery enclosure or the drive motors?
This is why you shouldn’t buy those cars from private sellers without a transferable warranty. I just took a 2020 i3S at a BMW dealership with a 24 months full warranty, extended by a year as i financed it with a 36 months leasing.
Thanks Arthur for another informative video, the question is if we drain the gearbox oil what grade is it, where do we fill it and how much?
I ask this because previously I had a brand new Twizy which was delivered without gearbox oil in it! I complained from day one it was noisy but it was only after having a drive in an Italian ladies one I was sure something was wrong. Renault dropped the oil and found nowt in there! One new gearbox later quiet twizzy
great video! have you encountered "drivetrain emergency release" error on the i3? do any of your videos show this?
For me, it would be galling to replace a very costly motor because the splines on the shaft are damaged. Perhaps a machinist could make a splined bush that could be shrunk/pressed onto the shaft after it is turned down to a plain cylinder.
It's definitely something we will look into if this becomes a more common problem. Better for the environment and the wallet to repair instead of replace...
@@wiselyautothat would not hold 200 lb ft of torque however tight it might be fitted.
It was the splines in the motor ( the female part of the coupling) that had stripped. The shaft on the gearbox was ok. So to do what you suggest the motor would have to have been disassembled, which is a specialised procedure especially if it's a permanent magnet motor. Then machined as you described. You might glue the splined bush in. If done faultlessly with the right industrial adhesive it might work, maybe. But the labour cost to spin the dice would likely be way more than £1500.
Installing a Hayabusa and deleting the battery. All up it will come in at 450 lbs including 6 speed transmission. Fuel cell 15 gallons where battery used to live. Sequential shifting. Straight exhaust pipes. Everything fits. Carbon fiber pocket rocket. Inspired by this Smart Car pictures to follow as soon as Aptera delivers their first car: czcams.com/video/WcBQPTEKWcg/video.htmlsi=19ZdzqXaUcpSLUu4
Great video. How do I check I'm on the latest software version? Is this something owners can do themselves? I have 2017 ReX 67 Reg. Thanks again.
I am nearing the end of swapping in a new motor and differential. In your video, you say the motor doesn’t need synced to the car. Other than plugging in all the various electrical and coolant lines; what else should I do before connecting the 12 volt battery followed by HV battery? Any advise much obliged!
Sigh of relief 😮💨
This isn't the only i3 Motor failure mode. czcams.com/video/yl8CELCGf_M/video.html
The motor output shaft bearing was a standard roller bearing from the beginning (including ActiveE), and experienced wear during the prototype and pre-production stages, but BMW went into production anyway. In 2018 they changed it to a Tapered Roller Bearing and it resolved the problem. My 2015 has just been diagnosed with this issue, and I'm facing a $16k replacement bill... not happening.
Let us know how your case develops! 🙏
@@Pajune Recently bought a 100 mile used 2018 drive motor, and a zero-mile transmission. Next is getting all the required "small"parts (about $600 new), then get busy...
I've heard many different numbers thrown around, what's the proper capacity of the transmission oil?
Are all part numbers the same for the motor and gearbox? Considering you are using a newer model motor and gearbox?
A generally very reliable unfixable car
Would you consider selling the original broken motor? I’d like to try and repurpose it.
I’d just want the engine from the APU, get built to 650c scooter spec, get an adapter plate made and stick it in a Fiat Topolino or Austin 7.
Great content! Does anyone know of someone like this in the US? (not Electrified Garage, please). I would love to know what the process is to remove the motor and/or gearbox, as my 2015 BEV has a bad motor output bearing (94k miles), and I will probably have to replace it with a salvage one (BMW repair estimate was $16k) I'll be looking for one from a 2018 and later which uses a better "tapered roller bearing". This newer part number motor is now the same specified as the replacement part on all year i3's (from what I found online)
Can this repair be done without a lift, by just using quality jack stands?
Was the Motor Calibration process not possible without the numbers that were supposed to be on the motor? The inverter would need to know of any rotation offset between the rotor and the position sensor, so it can time the drive pulses to the motor at the right time to make it efficient.
I'm hoping these questions will be answered 😅 I've been eyeballing one relatively cheap 2014 model with 210tkm on its electric motor, and would not be surprised if it needs the motor to be changed because of these stoopid bearings.
Смазка шлицов очень важна. Скорее всего была использована не подходящая смазка при замене редуктора.
Great video, but 8:47, front and rear wheels mismatched/ wrong handed - I blame you for teaching me that on your other video!!
Haha, it pained us to see this too but if we can't correct things we're not being asked to / paid for unfortunately. Front wheels didn't come off for this job - we did put the rears back on the correct way round though, so at least the issue is halved in severity :)
great job You know the i3 like the back of your hand. A small question for maintenance of the box. Can the filling be done by the air vent on the top of the box without having to remove the transmission? Thanks
My wife has an i3 Rex 64 plate. She bought it as a demonstrator from a BMW dealer, it has almost every extra and had just 3k miles on it. Now has 125k. I think at some point will need a new motor - getting louder and louder. It makes a loud whining noise, the pitch goes up and down with speed. Not sure what it is, but assuming the motor. Has anyone else experienced this? We will keep it and replace bits using salvaged parts (for the expensive bits). The carbon fibre body costs so much and lasts, so makes sense to keep it.
Search this with "i3 electric motor bearing problem". It seems to be a known issue until 2018 models! You are prolly going to need a new electric motor from what I've read.
Yeah very entertaining.
I’m wondering if alternatively this could occur from frequent shifting from drive to neutral back to drive to coast with foot off the pedal. Would that be a potential cause for this repair?
That’s how an Ev is normally driven. That certainly has an effect but the problem shown here looks like a huge fretting of rotor internal gear teeth either by severely corroded part prior to installation or by lack of proper heat treatment ie harder male part mating with softer internal part.
The video suggested it was assembled without grease. This would leave it vulnerable to corrosion and also fretting if there was any clearance at all between the splines. There also seems to be an issue with motor output bearings (from comments here) so the motor output spline could be wobbling about, which could cause it to destroy the spline.
I just took my i3 electric motor out
If the transmission lock did not release properly, I could see how the electric motor could spin with all its tourque and damage the female splines of the electric motor that mate with input shaft of the transmission.
Acceleration and regen changing constantly is a recipe for disaster if there is any backlash on the spline.
Love I3’s but…
But what?
@@benbaselet2026 .. she comes with a baggage full of surprises :)
@@Pajune 18 months with mine and none yet popped up :)
@@benbaselet2026 That's great! I wish thousands of happy km's for you! May I ask you which year model do you have? Battery size, rex? I've been looking at a high mileage 2014 model, but it seems like a very bad idea 😂
@@Pajune 2019 BEV, 120 Ah. I very specifically wanted a commuter car and not the REX (especially the heat pump comes more in handy for me in Finland).
Im Grateful of seeing such a proffesional information from you.
❤🇺🇦❤Sloboda
Scary, I wonder how much this repair cost ? And to happen at such a low mileage? Puts me off BMW i3