Is Jeet Kune Do an Open or Closed System?
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- čas přidán 19. 07. 2024
- A review of the long-standing Original Jeet Kune Do vs. Jeet Kune Do Concepts debate, along with a fresh take on the subject.
This video was a technical and creative experiment, and some of the footage included varies in quality.
I myself follow both Original JKD And JKD Concept because I myself understand both, Jeet Kune Do concepts are more about the philosophy and people usually forget about Jun Fan Gung fu
Here's a quick way to answer this: what is the 'Constitution' of JKD? When has that been updated. If the constitution (number one lesson guide) doesn't change, it's closed. If updates are made, it's open.
The answer changes per school. JKD is, like many martial arts, interacted with as a form of religion. And just like how Islam has two branches, JKD is almost an exact copy of their issue.
Bruce Lee is dead. We loved him while alive and love his legacy. But treat your martial art in a way that benefits you today. Their are an endless number of dead people we can treat as sacred, but why do that if treating them as sacred inhibits our day to day life? I don't want the future generations of my art forsaking myself just to copy what I was able to discover on my journey. Make my art grow. Make Your art grow.
This Video was a perspective on JKD considerations.
This response was well said also and correct Sir.
I trained with Dan Inosanto and Larry Hartzell and other students of there's like Tim Tacket, Cass Magda, Eric Paulson etc... These instructors spanned different Eras and the purity and functionality meant different things to different cohorts(10year time periods).
Guru Dan advocated JKD principals that ran through the Jun Fan kickboxing and gung fu trapping styles separately from actual JKD conceptually. Then the JKD Concept opened up the other martial arts that were Dan's personal JKD like Kali-Silat and Maliphilindo martial arts which were an amalgum of Malaysian, Filipino and Indonesian styles. He also included Machado Jujitsu and Shoot Fighting by the 80's.
You were to develop from other martial arts to grow personally beyond Bruce's specific foundation and specifications. This way allowed for your personal growth but was not necessarily Bruce's personal JKD or where he would of wanted you to take your training to work best for you it in order to grow as a martial artist yourself.
I found most closed camps to be closed minded as well. Just stuck back in time trying to understand Bruce's kung Fu geniuse perspectives back in the day...
Closed styles all dissolve eventually in some way to accommodate their uses or they fade and die.
Even Combat Sport styles like Boxing, Thai Boxing, Judo, Sambo, Wrestling, or Jujitsu open up widely to absorb benefits for certain rule sets for open class competition fighting or MMA... They all are evolving by the individuals who break the molds regularly... 👊
Bruce would have been against anything that would divided JKD. He promoted Personal artistic expression through a freestyle martial art aimed at combat. Basically a combat MMA.
As someone who trained both the Original China Town curriculum and the "concepts" arts as well I think it's a little bit of both. It has to have some essential elements; Fencing /boxing hybrid footwork. Strong side forward. Emphasis on intercepting . Good boxing skills. Some minimal trapping. Primarily a street art with foul tactics but can be adapted to the ring. That is the Closed system aspect. But it should also include " add specifically what is your own. You have to add elbows and knees. We used Muy thai and the Fillipino Arts, and Wing Chun has elbows too. We added Catch wrestling and Gracie JJ. Some added Savate techniques. We added WW2 combatants from a Marine Raider who used to teach with our group. Part of doing JKD is analyzing other arts on how to beat them and to see if there is something beneficial you can keep as your own. All my JKD compatriots have added things from other arts. that's the open system part. HOWEVER, if you throw away the JKD essentials to do whatever you want, then it's not JKD. It may be good, and it may be your best self expression, but if there is no JKD in it, then it's not JKD. (JKD is not doing anything you want.) I trained with Bruce Lee students from the ChinaTown era and the most well know Dan Inosanto student when Bruce was still alive. the Bruce Lee students always said Bruce called what he was teaching them JKD. Interestingly, Dan Inosanto would teach his Concept arts at seminars and have my Teacher ans some others teach the JKD portion. He did this because he promised Bruce not to teach JKD commercially. Bruce taught them a style with certain foundational aspects not removable form the art. , yet left room for individuals to add what is specifically their own.
My understanding is that, toward the end, Bruce walked away from calling his art anything besides, as he described to Pierre Berton, "the art of expressing the human body." One of the reasons being the inherent limitations and confusion and divisiveness that come with naming and defining something, much less overseeing schools and authorizing instructors to teach it. Thus he closed his three schools and officially left the JKD name to Dan Inosanto. If he wanted to let it die, fine; if he wanted to keep it going, fine, but Bruce suggested limiting things to small, personalized groups, in the backyard or garage, where he always had the most fun. And Dan, at least for a couple years, did that but only focused on FMA; partly because he felt JKD was Bruce’s art and partly because of how devastated he was from losing his sifu/friend. But due to the urging of others who were concerned over JKD becoming bastardized by others, Dan gave in…sort of. He teaches Jun Fan Gung Fu and JKD Concepts, NOT JKD, because, as was said, it was Bruce’s personal expression that passed when he did. What DIDN’T pass was the mess he correctly saw coming if he hadn't...walked on.
he probably didn't had time to modify more, or perhaps the movie business got in the way ?
Bruce wrote several letters that indicated he was fully invested in Jeet Kune Do as a martial art and as a philosophy of life and as a lifestyle. Reopening and further developing his schools was an inevitability that was only interrupted by tragedy.
I practice a system of Jeet Kune Do Concepts that emphasizes Boxing, Wing Chun, Dumog, and Sambo.
Very well said!! I agree!! He made no will in paper!! That allowed anyone to change it!!
Out of respect for Bruce Lee, Dan Inosanto added the name Concepts to JKD ، And Dan start teaching the jkd curriculum as was teaching by bruce lee under the name of jun fan gung fu because jkd was bruce's personnel expression of the martial art and dan was evolving using the concept of bruce lee jkd based on bruce lee jkd curriculum so is dan personnel expression so is jun fan gung fu/jkd concepts
Dude well said. Love this! By the way is that Richard sifu in the clips?
Awesome video James! I look forward to more! Thanks!
My Jeet Kune Do consists of tactical EMS training and interpretative dance moves.
why say jeet kune do when we can say martial arts. she the mother of all martial arts, the martial art box of knowledge and techniques we can add and reject from.
keep in mind that at the beginning jkd had a blueprint to follow, a way. so why not teach it as it was taught.
although they went against Bruce wishes. Bruce peers (Dan inosanto and of course linda lee) didn't want jkd to die with Bruce.
and I say why not. jkd is that style that made us see the difference between jkd simplicity in techniques and traditional techniques.
Bruce wrote several letters to close friends that indicated he was fully invested in Jeet Kune Do as a martial art and as a philosophy of life and as a lifestyle. Reopening and further developing his schools was an inevitability that was only interrupted by tragedy.
Wonderful discussion. Would you consider judo more of a closed system, and BJJ more open?
Some very very good points!
Wonder if Bruce was familiar with the fighting techniques of Ecky Thump.
Loved this
The irony is this video and many more of those who fuss over jkd name tend to be from original jkd.
See even thats contradicting this precursor of original.. hence the added mention of concepts. One who studied jkd should understand the guiding principles and concepts and techniques of which make the jkd curriculum and mindset.
To say bruce created jkd on his own is also far fetched as his influences and ideas came from many sources. The burden of putting this art together or ideas are well documented.
Beyond this.. heck beyond this notion of not modifying a piece of art. Is that fighting is a living and changes. Your measuring stick is and im sure if Bruce was alive would still be..
Does this work in a real fight...
Lets not lose sight of this..
I would say original JKD does NOT represent traditional/conservatism, as you stated.
Was Lamar holding one of those signs? ;)
I think a philosophy was enough for Bruce. I must say that, with a philosophy alone there nothing to preserve. to me that just air talk.
if ask a hundreds philosophers what is philosophy, a hundred philosophers gives a different answers. this doesn't give a conclusion. again, just air talk.
"My system? You can call it the system without a system." - Bruce Lee in Enter The Dragon
"There is no system." - Neo in The Matrix
*fighting without fighting
meaning?
GM Pogi teaches JKD but it's the Filipino version called Filipino Arnis Kali Escrima, also known as FAKE. FAKE is the Real version of JKD, while Dan Inosanto also teaches his version of JKD mixed with Filipino Martial Arts called Inosanto Blend.
jkd led me to alot of other stuff that works for me
You want to learn what Original Oakland JKD is all about ??? You'll be surprised
Could you elaborate
This is why bruce didn't open up world wide schools cause he kno this stupidity would happen.
Open
Is JKD supposed to look a certain way? That's the jist of the argument.
Sorry, no alumination at all.
This is just too fragmented and you should talk about what Bruce Lee threw away...then most of the names have no relation to the original, names are missing here to understand students who didnʼt sacrifice the principles for a cause, because that ends up in searation.
Absolutely respect this video.
I wonder if anyone has asked Dan Inosanto about the X Vs Y letter and his thoughts...