The really weird Kazuchika Okada/Ultimo Guerrero match | AEW Collision | Bryan & Vinny Show
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- čas přidán 22. 06. 2024
- Bryan Alvarez, Vinny, and Craig discuss the weird Kazuchika Okada/Ultimo Guerrero match where Guerrero wore a mask, despite losing it ten years ago.
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The inability to pivot creatively in this company is truly astounding.
That's the bigger issue. I blame TK.
@@KairosObj Anyone who isnt getting a check from TK, accurately blames TK.
If Okada did this comedy shit and worked half ass matches like this in WWE, we'd never hear the end of it.
Ultimo Guerrero was wheezing like he was about to pass out, it was crazy to hear.
Just say that the match was flat out bad. It's okay. It happens. The world doesn't end because of it.
Meltzer's world would end.
"You clearly never saw Okada wrestle in New Japan." Exactly. We are judging what we are seeing now which absolutely sucks
I just don’t understand why you bring in outside guys when you have a massive roster anyway. Seems counterproductive
It's the build to forbidden door. The PPV built around wrestlers from different promotions going up against each other. Quite logical actually.
Aew could and should cut another 50 guys on the roster
For forbidden door dunmy
Lol, they bring in guys even if it's not a build to Forbidden Door @@jonathanellis6097
@jonathanellis6097 🤓 quite logical actually 🤓 you would be on to something if this company hadn't already done this shit way before forbidden door
I bet 90% of the audience only know a lot of these names from podcasts and website reports. There is no way even the average AEW fan can keep up with all of these different companies. That's why putting so much time into forbidden door every year is counter productive. AEW gain very little from it long term.
I'd bet if you polled the crowd and they answered honestly, less than 40% would have even seen Okada/Ospreay.
I think 10% of the fanbase know and follow, 80% have no idea or care, and then a vocal 10% pretend they know and that Danielson vs any of them is a “dream” match.
OK then they can watch ever talking head or redundant dance or whatever loser anime. You can join them it's called a fan base. Assimilate or go play some loser video game with a parasocial chat with people you'll never meet
No different than NXT collaborating with TNA except there's better wrestlers in CMLL and NJPW.
I bet 100% of WWE fans don't know who Tama Tonga, Tanga Loa, and Jacob Fatu are.
@@Shadowjester1985 and yet Jacob Fatu got a pop this past Friday
Ultimo Guerrero came out to crickets
I love how you all mocked the Wyatt sicks thing yet as a wrestling fan I found this match way more embarrassing.
They're marks. What do you expect? Dave influences Tony's booking. And it's obvious with how bad and out of touch it is
Who is “you all?”
Okada has not had one single true banger while in AEW.
PAC?
@@MagicCatfish I thought PAC wrestled and bumped around excellently in that match but Okada’s performance felt “lesser” to me. I keep waiting for him to go full speed and show us the old Okada.
Why would he?
His boss clearly sees him as a lackey for the biggest goofs in the company 🤷🏻♂️
@@AdrianBeegoatz smh...sad but true!
Why does AEW waste Okada in matches such as this?
Somebody had that idea of a finish. Somebody should have sat that person down and explained why that finish is a horrible idea.
That was a bad match. Okada was able to compensate for Guerrero’s poor performance. Very rare to see an AEW match that isn’t well executed.
The fact is, Okada is a nobody outside of Japan.
To be fair, it was on collision. I didn't even know about this until right now lol
No one did
Yup, sign Okada and put him on Collision. Forget the Owen tournament, or chasing the world title. *This* is the type of match he needs.
To be fair Collision and dynamite ratings are fairly neck and neck
1:20 is pretty much AEW in a nutshell.
I really, really want to like AEW based on the talent involved. But the storylines are generally one-note (“I’m the best”, “no, I’m the best”) 80% of the matches have no storyline to them, and the other 20% are pretty easy to figure out who will win.
Okada should be the top guy in AEW. Instead, he’s a geek who yells “b****es” and gets the American crowd to laugh at him. Yay. Great stuff.
Hand over the book, Tony. This is much like late ‘98 WCW. They had all of the talent to compete, but they were in their own way.
I would love to see what a new booker could do with this roster. But I'll guess we'll never know
***Late 99
I can guarantee you that at least 90% of people who watch AEW don’t know who any of the CMLL wrestlers are lmao.
I didn’t no who they were and honestly I don’t really care to find out
In my opinion, Okada is underrated wrestler of AEW.
i remember when nakamura went to wwe and people thought he was tarnished and his legacy ruined forever, but let aew prove theres always lower for puro stars to sink to
05:27 craig is correct this is the hardest okada has worked in aew and its not even close you got 2 months of just facial expressions and a week of calling fans bitches how is bryan surprised is just hilarious to me
Wow what a low bar
Imagine when Ohtani came into MLB and he was used to just lay down sacrifice bunts. That's how AEW is choosing to present Okada.
The Wiseman Paul Newman!
Bryan is really trying to make this Evans thing a thing, isn't he?
Cuz he and Dave can’t stand that a sports entertainer like Trick is on top on that show and it’s succeeding, not a workrate indie guy like Je’Von.
Trick just isn’t ready yet
@@alvan1082 you must know better than Shawn Michaels huh? 🙄
@@alvan1082 Ready for...what? Being on the top of the card in a developmental league?
@@Asushlo yes he’s not there 🤷🏾♂️ he has the personality but he cnt wrestle
I am one of those guys that don’t watch Mexican wrestling so I did not know about the whole mask thing and then when he got a unmasked , I was like holy crap that’s not good
Ultimo/AEW probably figured since he's wrestlin in AEW peeps didn't know of the unmasking.
The further I drift away from pro wrestling, the more I wonder why people get so angry over things not making sense. Or even worse, people not being pushed to the moon and staying there.
But I guess this last one is Ruthless Aggression era nostalgia where belts changed hands regularly and among a rather large number of people (considering what we had gotten used to).
It's like when people in the 80's debated whether it was better to do JCP/NWA style shorter but multiple reigns over WWF style longer, more dominant ones.
Things need to matter on AEW TV because it's episodic and supposed to be designed to build engagement. Longtime AEW Wrestlers need to make significant progress because they're the tools that lead to more engagement. If both the stories and the people involved are irrelevant, then there's no point in watching outside matches that could be found on the internet for free.
@@anonymous_5016 The WWE has done little to promote its younger performers who allow for growth in some time and shown nothing but growth in return.
Look at the top of the card. The Bloodline is made up of three guys that were either big in the indies or (sort of) in Japan and got placed in the main event angle/stable right off the bat with no real WWE exposure prior to this. The leader was arguably the weak link who was somehow inexplicably presented as a badass enforcer and whose spot was more or less a given due to his being a brother of the Usos/cousin to Roman.
Cody came in from AEW and got placed in the top slot right away, no questions asked despite his WWE days being kind of unremarkable.
Glass Phil walked in and was immediately rewarded with tons of exposure after spending most of post-WWE time burying the company.
So that's a lot of people who didn't grind their way to the top.
Now who did? Well, Gunther, Knight and Priest. But Gunther is in a strange limbo where the WWE isn't sure what to do with him. Knight is there to pop the crowd and sell merch but more or less constantly loses and is getting no forward traction. Priest's super midcard belt is clearly meant for Seth once he gets back to real fighting form and the former is going to go back down the card, likely feuding with Balor or something. Oh and Priest was beaten by a celebrity, hence his push.
Otherwise, Gable is back in square one after really showing fire (again). Zayn is face IC champ as opposed to heel IC champ. Logan Paul is big because he's a CZcamsr Superstar who does sketchy stuff. Orton is STILL near the top of the card and eyeing Cody. Owens is STILL hanging around the upper midcard/main event and doing matches with non-wrestlers/long retired ones because he's safe and doesn't complain. Drew is great, but he's stuck in a feud with an older guy who may get injured walking to the ring and keeps getting shafted every single time. Too early to tell with Bron.
The WWE's model suggests that, no, NOTHING matters so much as being big outside the WWE and/or related to main event stars.
@horgh_japan To not understand why WWE is doing so well, you'd have to ignore the major storylines that people like Sammy Zayn, Chad Gable, CM Punk, Bron Breaker, and all members of the Bloodline are involved in.
I didn't know who the new Bloodline guys were until their WWE debut. Despite that, their dominant presence along with the new "tribal chief" storyline (excellently portrayed by Paul Heyman) is what made Smackdown so entertaining.
CM Punk and Drew are currently in a massive feud that went through massive progress last week on Raw and Smackdown despite Punk's injury (try to compare that with MJF and Adam Cole).
Gunter won King of the Ring not too long ago and had just come off a record-breaking reign as IC champion.
I would agree with you on Cody if it weren't for the entire Wrestlemania 40 build and his history with the Bloodline.
For everyone else, WWE has an entire brand dedicated to young talent. The ones who debuted on the main roster since Wrestlemania 40 have only been there for a short time. We'll have to wait and see. WWE doesn't hotshot feuds like AEW does.
@horgh_japan Jim Cornette and Eric Bischoff, that's why. Those two guys crank out material every single day bashing everything they don't like (mostly AEW stuff) and people eat it up like gospel truth. Bischoff has been reliving the same 83 weeks for the past 25 years of his life. Cornette has spent the latter half of his career hating anything that doesn't match his narrow view of wrestling. However, they are two of the loudest voices on the Internet when it comes to criticizing wrestling, just talking out of their asses, and people regurgitate everything they say.
@@Shadowjester1985 Bischoff has been chasing clout for ages. Even in WCW he was hanging out with Nash and Hogan in hopes of their clout rubbing off on him.
Hell, even DDP as he was getting hot became Bischoff's best bud, with rumors of wife swapping and boozy nights with hookers in limos.
Bischoff is also a notorious liar who spins stories very badly. From his fabled morning jog in North Korea when everyone else was apparently under constant watch to his refusal to acknowledge Pillman working him. Bischoff was never above making shit up.
Bischoff, unlike Cornette, gets a lot of blowback still. His comment section is filled with people who laugh at him whereas Corny only has to deal with Trump followers who wish he'd keep politics out of the podcast.
But Cornette is a character. Ever hear his podcasts with JR or Meltzer (pre-feud)? He's a soft spoken, polite, even affable guy who treats his host with the utmost care, basically kowtowing their views. Hell, the guy kept his best straight face during the Greg Gagne shoot interview as the latter started rattling off his silly Hogan/Vince conspiracy theory.
Cornette is a character. How much Cornette the man reflects Cornette the character is hard to say. RVD recently joked that as a good ol' southern boy, Jim couldn't help but be at least a bit racist. So there's that much.
But Cornette likes the wrestling he grew up with and the wrestling that he worked in and feels made him a name. Its his version of nostalgia clouding judgement. Moreover, he built a career spewing hate toward whatever babyface crossed swords with his heel charges. A gentle, polite, careful Cornette hosting a podcast would be boring. informative perhaps, but too dry. Cornette needs someone, ANYONE to hate in order to be interesting.
It used to be HHH but the WWE inducted the Rock n' Roll Express and invited him to do the honors. No more "Steph is a bitch" and "HHH is her lapdog" jokes. Vince was off the table as he was Corny's escape hatch were the podcast money to dry up, now he has HHH instead so Vince can be mocked.
AEW was a Godsend for Corny.
Just like early internet loudmouths like Hyatte had "workrate" fans to laugh at, Corny has AEW and its fans. How much he really cares and really hates AEW and the people who work there is hard to tell. But the money is good and it gives him something to fuel the old Cornette character.
00:56 AEW loves to do their unmask the Luchador gimmick.
Agreed it was the most hilarious and weird match I’ve seen in recent times. That mask looks like they took it from a fan at the last second.
I like AEW, loved it even more from 2019 -2021. But, the issue I had with it was the kind of wrestling they offer sorta has a shelf life. It was fucking great seeing matches that had zero restrictions and 10 canadian destroyers in one match (hyperbole, dont quote me on this😂) but it got old. The other issue is that AEW hasn't shaken off the stench of being a spite company. "Please watch us because we're not the evil wwe empire", which comes off as tribalistic and reeks of a company thats aggressively trying to babyface itself. Lastly, they seem to be doubling down on the wrong kind of crap. Like Okada, possibly the greatest Japanese wrestler of all time, being a comedy geek. Because everyone affiliated with the bucks must do comedy. Why? Also the Jericho crap. All the stupid matches with no build that are completely random and baseless, like whatever tf this match was supossed to be. Theres a lot more wrong with AEW and I just hope they can get back on track. Because hitting "all time lows" 3 times already this year, is very worrying
I just realized Ultimo Guerrero is not Ultimo Dragon
Okada is bland, boring, and has absolutely no charisma. AEW fans are saying that Okada is a comedy genius because he is saying 'bitch.' 😂😂
It's funny because if he was just doing the same "bitch" catchphrase in WWE, they would be talking about how WWE ruined him
@@pickles168 on the contrary, you'd probably be loving him in WWE
Yes, because nothing is more hilarious than an Asian wrestler saying bitch with his accent
OMG how original and
hysterical......
I think a problem too is bringing in all these outside guys all the time just to lose. Why do we constantly constantly need to roll out someone from elsewhere when the roster is overloaded as it is?
It doesn't help push anyone on that roster. Instead, you stroll out the 500th luchador to take a pin in a match. Everyone knows they'll lose, too. It always just feels like a huge waist of time
And MAYBE that's why people aren't watching as much. The show doesn't feel like a fufilling use of your time
Nice haircut Bryan 💇♂️
I nearly fell asleep watching this show, what has tk done to collision
Why didnt repo man end tatankas streak? The two had great chemistry but never worked a program.
Ultimo Guerrero explained on his Facebook; pretty much said what Vinny said and explained in further detail that he wore the mask out of respect.
"Everyone was criticizing why I wore that mask but all I thought about was the hard work that a man from aew put in to make it in such a short time. So that's why I wore it and got in the ring with it, it represented his sacrifice and mine. Sometimes people do a lot for us and we never take them in consideration. I'll proudly conserve this mask."
lol
I really wish AEW wasn’t being forced into this CMLL partnership. The AAA stars are younger and more exciting. Outside of Hechicero, all of the CMLL luchadors seem old and generic.
How are they being forced? From watching AEW every week I agree the AAA guys did seem generally better.
Aaa is worse. Dude i watched it and they suck. Konnan is in charge of creative in AAA. Why do you think he keeps burying aew because of animosity between cmll and aaa.
@@jonathanellis6097 CMLL is aligned with New Japan so by proxy AEW has to work with them...at least that's the way I've always understood it.
@@samallex6484 I'll be honest I haven't listened to Konnan's pod in a while so I don't know if he's burying Tony out of animosity or just generally giving his honest opinion on things. I don't watch AAA or CMLL week to week, but most of luchadors that I do enjoy these days tend to come out of AAA. And the ones that are more of a chore to watch come out of CMLL.
The Okada/Ultimo match was surprisingly mid imo.
Thank you! I'm not much into Mexican LUCHA, but I KNEW he had no mask for a couple of years now. WTFH was that??!
😂 his tag partner rey bucanerro has the face paint.
This episode of Collision was soo bad...my god
It really was a terrible episode
Thought this was a 2010 Tna review 😂😂
Is this the x cup?
Don't forget to say thank you to Jeff Jarrett 😂
“Bizarro World” - Vince McMahon
That match was way too slow,
Tony Khan has definitely begun to embrace his Billionaire Powers.
But instead of Paralegals, he is insisting wrestlers wear masks just because he wants it 🤣
It was bad
A protected finish they use often on masked competitors SMH
Nobody wants to point out the millions being spent on this guy to be in a comedy heel group and get cheap pops by saying bitch every week?
The guy was a Top 5 wrestler of the 2000’s. He’s not completely broken down like Naito. Use him right.
Okada on AEW is literally Nakamura on the WWE. Two people that literally broke down their bodies in Japan, and now come over to America for an easy payday and an easier work life. I have nothing bad to say about either men they both deserve it.
But here is what I do have to say. What is the difference between the two. Nakamura was horribly used by the WWE, he was buried and made to look like an idiot. Okada it's just having fun, he's having an easy time making his money because he deserves it.
Both men have done the exact same thing, both men are being treated the exact same way by the companies they've ended up in. But the narrative is very different when it's one company compared to the other. Funny that.
Nakamura had a WWE title match at WrestleMania, won a royal rumble and had a few title runs, it's not njpw Nakamura but he's been good in WWE, could be used better but I would send him back to nxt for rehab like they did finn
@@Stelladog0311 i'm not saying that Nakamura didn't have success in the WWE. I'm just saying he is not a main event player, he came to America for a nice paycheck while he wound down his career. And that's how he's been used. They've used his star power when needed, but he's never been the man.
This is exactly what's going to happen with Okada. He's come for a nice pay packet and a lighter pace on his body. He will wind down his career by being in main events when needed, but never actually being the man.
The difference is the AEW fanatics will all say that it's great that he gets to finish his career how he wants to. Whereas all of the AEW fanatics say "what a waste of Nakamura". Not that I'm saying that Okada is going to wind down or go anywhere any time soon. I can see him being there for years and years and years. I just believe he's going to be used to make other people, he'll never be used as the man. Even with the successes that he is given, it would always be used to build somebody else Just like Nakamura's when at the Royal rumble was used to build AJ
Exactly. Nobody knows ALL of these guys. Even the small draw they get at buildings. This is a big reason why nobody new is watching. Yes, I enjoy AEW, but once again, somebody new pops up that nobody knows, for the main event... Look, I understand that Tony does what Tony wants, fine. But there's constant talk about ratings and crowds, so it needs to be mentioned. They need to run major cities, not a 2 month small town Canada run. PPVs are great of course, but the stories bring in the non die hards.
It wasn’t weird. It just sucked. Call it what it is.
At some point will you ever get that not everyone watches Japanese wrestling? The American audience that has only seen Okada in AEW would probably agree that he’s overrated. His booking has sucked.
He's one of the greatest in ring performers of all time but he's shown zero sign of that in AEW
@@alexmonro1711 I agree.
Minus Five Stars
Bryan learning the sickos are in fact posers who don't watch as much wrestling as they claim
Bryan over here acting like people can't pop for something absurd AND know the history of why popping for it is absurd.
so... ultimo guerrero, Tony, the video editing guy who made the video package, maybe okada and the entire crowd knew that ultimo guerrero has been without his mask for like a decade and were like "yeah we'll put this over for some reason!" the mental gymnastics here are bewildering to me I guess we all cant be as smart as you or maybe theres a joke im missing lol
@@TVindustries5000 Yeah exactly. If they showed a video package or a promo of Ultimo maskless and then he came out with a mask, then the joke would land. Or even if he came out without a mask and then Okada handed him a mask at the start of the match and then gleefully unmask him for the finish
.... that no one saw
Said the lady 😂
@@Phantom7inCH hey Dr1212. I mean MyChannel, you gonna sing for me song girl?
@@Phantom7inCH hey dr 1212 i mean MyChannel, gonna sing for me showgirl?
@@Phantom7inCH hey MyChannel, I mean Dr1212, what account are you gonna sign into next?
@@Phantom7inCH back on this account now? I can't wait for dr and my Channel to show up in this comment next.
This match was good. That ending where he rainmakered the mask off was awesome. I love Okada.
aew is worst than wcw2000
Wow. So when kahn overpays a wrestler and they under perform in aew..its all cool because they earned that money because they put on bangers ELSEWHERE???Try that excuse in ANY other sport
I've been watching AEW since the beginning. I will say this was probably the worst episode they have produced. Osprey Vs Cage was good but the rest of the show dragged. It's become clear Collision is a B show.
What hit me the other night is how many wrestlers AEW have from the darker period of WWE. The AEW guys that were kicking NXT and WWE's ass from a few years ago have either not been seen or are on ROH, or moved on. Seems an odd move.
Collosion on Saturday been bad all it as jobber matches I tuned out most of the show they main event was good but the rest was horrible
AEW sickos is a worse name than WWE Universe…both are stupid
Get a younger host guys
Jevon Evans will be in much better position in the next 6 months compared to all the jobbers Bryan named in aew.
Psh, he's already lost a match, he's ruined.
Exactly he gotta relax. Jevon is already more over than those guys.
For fucks sake Bryan.
YES
Not everyone is a sad bustard who only sits around doing fuck all other than watching every Japanese promotion as well as WWE/AEW/TNA/INDIES etc etc etc
Its not a hard concept to fathom, hence why some have always called for full video packages or build up vignettes or even long term video build ups, to get us all ready.
Anyone who had t seen Okada elsewhere would rightly say right now. "Who the fuck is this guy and why he is fucking with the oxygen stealing bucks if he is that good?"
And don't say "but Jacob fatu or the tongans" they are clearly coming in as "family" members in a pre existing storyline that is massively over and where people are massively invested.
And before you AEW virgins say a word.
You ALL watch it. Every single minute. Fact 😂
Okada's comedy stuff is great for a personality driven US crowd
Is it? Remember when AEW fans were sure that if he signed with WWE they'd make him a joke comedy wrestler?
Well that's what he is now. And that's why no one cares about him.
I love it. I could listen to Okada call people bitch all day
But I thought aew doesn't do sports entertainment
Yeah, I thought that was odd Ultimo Guerrero was in a mask when, even in the promotion video, he appeared without a mask. So the mask was purely for a storyline. Yes, AEW has storylines.
But it’s a story in a match. 99% chance that we never see Ultimo again. And he ain’t facing Okada again. So why even spend that much time on a match that won’t mean anything?
So no, it’s not really a storyline. And even if it was. It would make no sense, because he was unmasked a decade ago.
This is stuff we buried the WWE for doing. We should bury AEW for doing the same thing.
@@claytron3000 lol, like anybody needs an excuse to bury AEW! I watched the show, and the match, and understood the story of the match... To show Okada in pure heel mode.
I can't believe aew has make face of njpw to overrated
I think I saw my great-uncle throw a short-arm clothesline (rainmaker??) to a neighbour friend…
We figured he must have dementia, and were convinced he needed assisted living. Were we wrong??
MAYBE he was a ‘GREAT’ wrestler, hey AEW fans??
Maybe we should have ignored the drooling and inability to speak coherently…because that ‘rainmaker’ was slow and ‘great’…
Okada is over rated.
& yes, I watched some of his NJPW matches. He's OK, just OK
He was OK in TNA. His match with Scurll, at All In, was OK.
You didn't watch the storylines unfold either.
@@22srs22 no, I find NJPW quite boring and hard to follow, but he's OK. He stands out, sure, but mainly coz he's tall.
@@elberno4243 Just listen to the commentary, and if you have to, watch the backstage comments. It's not that hard.
Boy, for all the shit TK fans give to guys like Vince Russo, Tony Khan books like 2000 WCW Vince Russo writes. Both men assume you already know EVERYTHING about wrestling behind the scenes, and doesnt explain shit.
AEW Okada is massively overrated.
Nah
Cool
He’s slow and clumsy most of the time, maybe different styles or age
Sad but true, AEW Okada is WWE Nakamura, there to earn a good payday
@@omegaman6494 fair enough
AEW 👍
F the Hater brigade doomsdayers rating watchers & haters
Just stfu & enjoy wrestling 😆😎👍
Have a nice day 😈
So you hate Tony Khan then? Okay. He just bragged about "beating" the UFC prelim. You call anyone who doesn't agree with you a hater. 2021: Aew is gonna run WWE off
2024: RATINGS DON'T MATTER
Hmmm what changed
@@RunandLift2 I never said AEW was going to run WWE off kid
& no I don't hate TK WWE fanfool but he like you needs to sthu
@@RunandLift2 Ps don't be like crap Ken kid I don't say if you disagree with me your a heter 😆🤦♂️
@@Dr_1212 You cry way too much
@@Dr_1212 Is kid a term all the sickos like to use? Very odd considering what the term sicko means hmmmmm. I'll say what I want because I can. TK will say whatever he wants because barnacles like you, will always defend it no matter what. Since you have zero shame. TK is a ratings watcher. More than any of us. And he started the ratings talking point. So how about You stfu and stop being so mad at people giving it back