Orthodoxy & Catholicism: Sr. Vassa talks w John Michael Talbot
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- čas přidán 30. 08. 2019
- Visit Sister Vassa's website here: coffeewithsistervassa.com.
In this episode of Saturday Morning Live, Dr. Sr. Vassa Larin (of the Russian Orthodox Church) interviews Roman-Catholic inspirational author and musician, John Michael Talbot.
I'm so glad i stumbled across this video. I'm a Catholic convert from Protestantism but seriously looked into Orthodoxy for a while. I still love Orthodox spirituality and Divine Liturgy. It's so encouraging to me to see polite, informative discussions like these.
I live really close to Little Portion Hermitage so I'll have to visit sometime and I'll be checking out more of your videos Sister.
Thanks for commenting, Mike DeFoore!
@Sophia G. I'm an RC and I wouldn't say so...the West has an amazing traditional Liturgy that even can be found in the Orthodox West. To say the best of both worlds is Byzantine Catholic Mass... neglects our Latin heritage ;) Of course there are differences even between Byzantine Catholic Mass and Orthodox Liturgy, I was surprised to discover the overall difference that takes place in accepting Pastor Aeturnus as well as some other things the Orthodox reject. Certainly much in common though
I’m betraying my age by admitting I knew and loved to listen to JMT’s music in the 1970s and 80s! At the time, I was Protestant charismatic (also raised Methodist-great start. Thank you, John Wesley, for loving the Greek Fathers, and resisting Calvinist PSA!), and I couldn’t quite get how someone from my background could become a Roman Catholic. Lol! Four decades later, driven by PSA’s schizoid “god” out of Evangelicalism, I wound up becoming Orthodox, so now I understand. Wonderful conversation! Thank you both!
I loved his music in the 70"s as well. With his brother Terry too.
Welcome home form a former Roman Catholic and now happily Orthodox!
Hi Lorna! Love your name. Been to Exmoor lately? At a time when mainline Anglicans were beginning to discover the ancient underpinnings of their tradition, John Wesley had already arrived at a more profoundly 'catholic' soul and mindset than many of them ever developed. I say this as an Orthodox Christian who has seen great beauty in some of the specifically English spiritual experience. Christians from an English background are in many ways ideally positioned to discover and appreciate the truth of Orthodoxy and to reject the diabolical teaching of John Calvin.
Beautiful conversation between two friends, I converted to roman Catholicism and I love it..John I enjoy your spirit filled music.
John Michael Talbot played an enormous role in my early Christian walk, from about 1984 through 1987. I still listen to some of his albums occasionally, and have a few of his books. He was indirectly one of my tutors on Franciscan spirituality; St Francis of Assisi was something like my "midwife" into Orthodoxy. God bless JMT!!!
The Painter album was pivotal to my adult faith as a lover of God and others, and a musical pray-er.
The Charismatic Renewal and Jesu Caritas spirituality led me to Holy Orthodoxy. My wife (ex-RC) also is Orthodox. The Holy Spirit is moving!
I am in the Orthodox Church but have felt like something withing me has been missing. So i started learning about Roman Catholic saints and I realize the difference in thinking and emphasis within each of the two churches is something that I need balance of. I need BOTH traditions. I am not speaking about mixing practices, but a balance of the heart for Christ that I feel I need. It is hard when we Orthodox are very closed off to Catholic teachings and such (because I can't talk to anyone in my church about what I learn), and to their credit the Catholics do seem to have more freedom and openness if they want to learn what the east can teach.
@emeeeych ...What advice and guidance did your Priest offer to you, when you discussed your feelings and concerns with him?
@@NadaVerse Thanks for this question yeah,. He doesnt care I guess, because Yes we spoke, he knows I was struggling and in pain, and then nothing. He doesn't know how to help people. So whatever. I prayed and ask God to show me himself. Out of curiosity I started reading. And realized how disingenuous is it to think that we have nothing to learn from the west.
@emeeeych ....You’re in pain over this?
@@NadaVerse are you genuinely asking what my personal problem is because you are concerned? or because you want to feel justified in condemning me?
@emeeeych I have no such agenda.
Wow! That was a meaty discussion bringing up many points for your audience to chew on long after the video ended. Thank you both for letting us listen in.
I enjoyed this discussion...... East and West have been spiritually athsmatic since the schism, albeit not entirely... Our great saints of both Churches show us how the Holy Spirit moves in all who will allow Him. I love my father, Saint Francis of Assisi, and my holy brother, Saint Seraphim of Sarov, for their simplicity and humility.... Peace and all good to all....
___Bro. David López, o.s.f. hermit.
Excellent conversation. Have listened to John since the early 70’s and am amazed at how he continues to bless. Sister, Vassa, wonderful show.
Where 2 or 3 gather - I am there ! It’s true we need each other and wisdom truly comes from The Spirit of God. I’m Roman Catholic but love Orthodox teachings. Respect and understanding is key. Do you think God wants carbon copy spirituality? Maybe we can become so much stronger if ownership is Gods alone? Thanks for such an open dialogue .
Amen
I am Orthodox and love Catholic masses (I used to attend them as a girl in Catholic boarding schools in Malta). We're all brothers and sisters in Christ.
Sr. Vassa, respectfully, I cannot agree with Fr Braga and the notion that what should matter for us Christians most, or first, is our identity as this or that type of Christian, our identity as Orthodox or as Catholic. That smacks too much of religious tribalism, not of what Christianity is and ought to be. On a different topic, it pains me to see that you've been made to feel like something of a misfit in/by the church: you're a trail blazer and the work you're doing is probably more important than even you can imagine. Your CZcams channel has had a significant impact on in my life as a Christian and I am deeply grateful for that.
@@sarahangeleski2027 Christianity ought to be True. When it's not True its not Christianity. Many places and customs can claim to be for Christ but in fact be in Communion with Anti-Christ.
That's what we should worry about. The True Church is only the one that keeps the Faith and Sacraments and can stand the embrace. Any parish that cannot is out of Communion with the Lord.
Succession means nothing without Tradition maintained.
Super Excited, I used to listen to his music in the early 90s, 😀
I love you Sister Vassa for all your efforts to bring fresh winds of ecumenical thought and perspectives to both the Latin and Orthodox faithful. As a Roman Catholic, I love and need Orthodoxy to complement and fulfil the fullness of unity that our traditions once celebrated together. May the Holy Spirit continue your mission to enlighten us both in the true Body of Christ. Grateful hugs
I'm Roman Catholic and hold the sedevacantist opinion.
Past 2 yrs I've been close to losing my faith over the utter hopelessness of my situation.
It's amazing to see people who are devout Christians and have a good life.
Thank you for the video Sister.
I think Protestant converts are all too willing to become public teachers much too soon.
Question : was Pius XII the last "valid" Pope?
Jeffrey De Freese In my opinion yes but I think he lost his office in 1955.
Most think he lost the office upon his death Oct.1958.
@@etherealcatholic5711 What did he do in 1955? How many RC in the world would you estimate hold this position? It sounds extreme to non RC.
Jeffrey De Freese
According to Council of Trent,
Session 7 Canon 13,anyone who dares to change Liturgy or Sacraments is anathema.
(Condemned)
1951 He destroys Apostolic Easter Vigil
1953 Allows medicine and water after midnight & eliminates Apostolic after midnight Holy Communion fast
1955 Utterly destroys entire
Apostolic Holy Week and subsequent feast days such as Pentecost.
Jeffrey De Freese No one truly knows the number of Traditional Catholics.
Even clergy & laity of both SSPX groups has secret
sedevacantist types.
John Michael Talbot helped me to become an Orthodox Christian.
Ignaty Santa Cherry Same here. Very instrumental in my path to a deeper Christian Faith, Traditional/Sacramental Christianity, and ultimately to the Orthodox Church.
Just got in and ready for yet another late viewing! Can't wait! Sorry I've been missing everyone in real time lately! God bless you, Sister Vassa & fellow zillions!
There you are, Bob! Good to hear from you, friend.
I was traveling during your show. I have almost every album of him and
Terry. Sad I missed this live or taped or whatever. Me from Embarrass, MN
Great discussion!
JMT, crazy you are not! Love you and Viola
Love to see how Christians are together
I seen John live , I was much younger good music I was a kid!
I wanted to comment on John Michael's experience with the Romanian Nun. Some of my friends are Orthodox. At a party recently with them, there was a Romanian Orthodox Priest. Upon learning that I was eastern rite Catholic, he called me a Uniate, which in some parts of the country is considered a derogatory term, and began to put down my practice of my faith. He insisted my Baptism was not valid when I know for sure, even in the Orthodox world, that it is. When I asked him respectfully to stop (b/c this went on for some time with no comments from myself in return--so I wasn't egging him on in any way), he became more insistent and cruel. My Orthodox friends could see he was being unreasonable, but no one said anything; nor did I. It was truly a horrible experience. However, I do not hold this against Orthodoxy. I just recalled it when John Michael spoke of what happened to him.
Ugh. Sorry you had to experience that, Veronica Susan. One wants to presume this priest seriously thought he was helping you (?), but it seems he just wanted to put you down. Mystifying, how a priest can possibly see his job that way, as if it consists in putting "outsiders" in their "place" (i.e., beneath "us").
@@VassaLarin Thank you very much, Sr. Vassa. This is why your work is so meaningful for me . You do not consider me an "outsider." This was just one misguided priest.
What a terrible experience! Interestingly, I had a very similar experience except with a Latin Mass priest. Let's acknowledge the obvious differences in our religions without being jerks.
Beautiful gathering. Delighted to Brother Michael and Sister Vassa in a dialog and a glancing but delightful engagement with Kahlil Gibran. Who was a Maronite, I believe.
John Michael Talbot's The Last Supper is the definitive 70s gospel album.
I am standing by for the lie chat, but I don't know if it'll work on her site. Plus, I am a terrible typist!!!!
But....it'll be a "live" chat. Not lying!!!
You said the "lie chat" - LOL! Best typo of the morning!
I saw a miracle in Orthodox Church at the time my sister tried to convert me to Joyce Meyer Ministries, Orthodox is the only truth u must become Orthodox
My sister works in Joyce Meyer false Church
What are your feelings about the Pachamama, and Amazon Synod?
Can anyone even call these things Christian?
I LOVED this. I really wish there were more dialogues like this around.
Could I suggest you interview someone with the Order of Céile Dé? I see a tradition that listens to the Earth grown and am curious if I'm in some sense, right. Khalil is awesome.
Can someone ask him about the Pachamama, and Amazon Synod?
you don't complain on the symbol of justice who is "Lusticia" Goddess of Greeks in Catholic Law schools and Catholic universities and SEcular World Courts of Justice....Why complain about Pachamama ,the symbol of Earth..??
@@pinoysarisari7374
I complain and fight against satanism everywhere.
I love that y'all brought up this fixation on Jesus "my best friend" "theology" where folks project themselves onto the entirety of God. Yet these Buddy Jesus Christians look at me cross eyed when I speak of awareness of the Spirit in my life and in the Church.
so wonderful to have two of my favorite people talking to each other
I'm subscribing ! Love the Coptics too ! 💗 and everyone else on 🌎 The Coptics have definitely had an effect on forming the monastic life/ ermetic life ! Mystical supernatural. Infused Contemplation all started in the early Church. Orthodox are Catholic. Latin is Roman Catholic. We all have The Sacraments ! You are all my brothers and sisters. I'm a consecrated Hermit.
Amen !
I don't want to sound arrogant nor some religious extremist, but i want to share the most important spiritual lesson, and this both from a very good Bible teachers and based on my own spiritual, "hands on"- experience. After I became a charismatic evangelical Christian, even though I was new-born Christian before as a Catholic , I learned that we have to remove anything from our home environment what will be a source of a different spirituality. So books and other objects leading or revealing any other spiritual knowledge, than that from the Bible. It's not about to be in fear or spiritually phobic, it is in seeking the fullness in what God in His Spirit has for us, as His presence, anointing to serve others, blessings for us, protection etc.The Holy Spirit is the only spirit who is a gentleman and will come in mass as we invite Him, all the other spirits will always force the door into our life and seek to disturb our walk with Jesus. And another thing is: the other spirits will not block us to have a theological knowledge, but to reduce our functionality in serving in God's anointing, for example for healing and deference. Jesus always was a very practical in service, hands on- so to speak, and if we want to follow Him in that He has to be the only spiritual room mate also in our physical house.
It's worth bearing in mind that the Imperial Martyr St Elizabeth the Grand Duchess studied western religious communities specifically before founding the Martha Mary Convnet in Moscow and that she actually spent months as a probationer in an Anglo-Catholic convent in England before she inaugurated her own community, which was certainly prudential because she profitted from their experience, and knew what to avoid. Moreover, she appears to have worked out with the theologians in Moscow a means of introducing the category of simple perpetual vows into the Orthodox Church which in the monastic context sounded like a pretty radical idea at the time although there was nothing actually incompatible with Orthodoxy in it - vows that were theoretically permanent but unlike the tonsure could be dispensed in certain circumstances, which made it easier psychologically for some types of personalities to make a commitment to the life they had chosen without the stress of worrying about the consequences if they later felt thay had made a mistake. Given the experiemntal nature of what St Elizabeth wanted to achieve the idea was not necessarily unjustified. We know from extant records that some of the sisters working under very harsh and very poor conditions experienced a kind of 'burn out' after a number of years of duty in the Moscow slums. There is no evidence that any of them left the communuty because St Elizabeth took extensive measures to help them recuperate, sending them on extended rest cures, and allowing them to make lengthy retreats or evlations in Crimean cloisters in order to recover their zeal, but in addition they did have the consolation of knowing that they could return to their families if they absolutely had to, which probably speeded their recovery. In short they didn't feel trapped. They felt privileged. I should add that there is nothing innately inflexible about a vow in Orthodox teaching as far as I know (not that I know very much), or which inherently implies perpetuity. I can take a vow of pilgimage to the Caves or Sergius-Posad or Jerusalem, for example, but when I reach my destination the vow is terminated. Hundred of lay people took annual vows to live the monastic life in the Russian monasteries prior to the godless revolution and they were particularly numerous at Valaam. These people were known in Russian by a word that could be translated as 'yearlings' or 'annuates'. The current Superioress of the Martha Mary Community in Kiev (at the Alexandroff Hospital, I think) has addressed this issue and invoked the example of Valaam. She mentioned in an interview that they have no apparatus at present for allowing conditional or temporary commitment because they don't know how to apply it but that they wanted to look into the matter further in order to understand St Elizabeth's legacy more deeply.
John Michael is part of the monastic tradition of Celtic Christianity. The Irish/ Scottish monks were married until about the year 1200 AD. It is interesting that the Irish were at home with Franciscan spirituality, ie John Dun Scotus
Hello Thomas, the Celtic Christians were Orthodox. The Celtic saints were Orthodox. English Anglicans have, for a long time, promoted the idea that they now continue the tradition of this ancient form of Christianity. But the reality is that Sts Cuthbert, Aidan et al were Orthodox. John Michael Talbot is not Orthodox. He has an engaging way of sharing his faith, I am not criticising him in any way, but it is the British orthodox who continue in the tradition of the Celtic saints. There is now an Orthodox monastery on the isle of Mull which i encourage everyone to look up.
I remember that a more detailed account of John Michael Talbot's conversion, and God stating to John that Jesus Christ is Lord and God, is found on the back cover of the album, "John Michael Talbot, " dated 1976. "Dominus Iesus," and "Pilgrim Fellowship of Faith: The Church as Communion," by Cardinal Ratzinger, the letter exchange between Metropolitan Damaskinos of Switzerland and Cardinal Ratzinger, (before he was Pope Benedict XVI), has some very interesting ideas about the Church as a whole, and the Deity of Christ. I am just calling myself a Christian. Looking at some of my books, "Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History," with "An Historical View of The Council of Nice," by Isaac Boyle, "Athanasius: The Life of Antony and The Letter to Marcellinus," "The Confessions of St. Augustine," and "Pilgrim Fellowship of Faith: The Church as Communion," and "Dominus Iesus," signed by Pope John Paul II, and written by Cardinal Ratzinger, 2000, then my extensive, "The Christians," encyclopedia series, I get that there is more to Christianity than just my narrow minded upbringing.
Doresc si ieu cartea va rog Doamne ajutane
I am an Old Roman Catholic Priest and agree that there is the ability to return to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.. which allows East and West to easily maintain their own Christian identities .. The Old Roman Catholic Church already achieved it with Patriarchs of Antioch and Alexandria in the early 1900's.
Are you familiar with Sor. Juana Ines de la Cruz?
Are you from Austria??
No.
Sestra Vasa... sevodna ja uznal za vas. Ja toze pravoslavni Serb :) iz ljubovi Pravoslavja ja naucil Ruski jezik . ❤
Fr Taft's article on the Liturgy of Ss Addai and Mari is one of the most important texts anyone can read on the subject of eucharistic theology and history. He packs so much significance into a fairly short study but it will change your life and understanding of the topic. You may have to read it ten or twenty times to get it all but you won't regret it. (By 'you' I mean everybody now living.) It's online. Search: Taft Mass without the Consecration? He considers the matter of the ascending western epiclesis but he throws the whole matter into totally new light. I think he simply ends all controversy on the subject in a way that is satisfactory to all parties. His explication of St Ambrose will bring tears to your eyes and make you ask, 'Why did I never see that before?'
What about the Protestant lady you mentioned?
As one of your Protestant viewers I was kind of looking forward to that
I was, as well, but we scheduled her for an interview twice, and she stood us up twice, with no warning. After we set everything up and waited. So for the time being I've given up on this particular interview.
@@VassaLarin ... Wow
Awesome
What the what!?!? Where are you guys getting your theology...WALMART???😮
Interesting conversation. However - the Traditional Roman Rite *does* have an epiclesis contained within the Offertory prayers and in the Canon, it’s just not explicit like the Byzantine (last edited by St Gregory Dialogus). But the second Eucharistic Prayer (favoured by Br John Michael) in the new Roman Rite is completely bogus - literally made up ie not derived from ancient sources at all; the author of it composed it as an “for instance” in a discussion over dinner, never intentionally to be used!
I don't agree with everything JMT says here. He is minimizing the significant differences that exist between the Orthodox Church and his own, as so many Catholics tend to do. It's not as simple as Sister Vassa needing "to be Catholic" and him "to be Orthodox." Orthodox Christians are Catholic, by the way, and never ceased being such. That said, he seems like a wonderful, humble man who loves Christ very much, and his music is very nice. Berryville, Arkansas is where my dear departed aunt Clara used to live, and I have fond memories from my visits there years ago. It's a gorgeous area, perfect for a monastery. ♥️✝️
Дорогая сестра Васса, можно пожалуйста проводить такие беседы на русском?
Sister, is your father Protopope George Larin of Holy Protection in Nyack? The idea that western rite Orthodox haven't gone all the way is curious in the case of converts from the RC church. They HAVE gone all the way apparently. JMT seems to be labouring under the misapprehension that the western rite consists of eastern Rite Orthodox people joining the western rite and stopping there prematurely instead of heading all the way to Rome, while in fact the movement is in the other direction. It consists largely of people who have already been in union with Rome, or Canterbury, and left them. I'd call that going all the way. I've never heard of anybody leaving the eastern rite for the western, although the opposite happens quite often especially among the Antiochians in the US. Not that I've heard of every single thing that happens in every single parish in the church. I do, however, know of an Old Kalendarist Russian priest who is infatuated with Gregorian chant and serves in the western rite at least half the time in aid of a small bi-ritual mission. I think it's quite natural for Orthodoxy to recover the beautiful traditions of the west that have been lost though the vicissitudes of time now that the opportunity has presented itself. In fact there is some scope for a very fruitful restoration to be undertaken in order to reinstate the western rite in its ultimate glory especially in relation to its musical presentation. Aside, I personally would not place too much weight on Protestants carrying excessive baggage into Orthodoxy. I don't suppose everybody baptised in Kievan Rus under the influence of St Valdimir had a completely Orthodox mentality by the very next day but they laid the foundations of extensive slavic Orthodoxy which eventually produced the greatest harvest of martyrs Christianity has ever known. People do what they can and the Holy Spirit does what is essential. There is nothing perfect on earth. We have to live with our limitations. If JMT decided to become Orthodox I think he would do an exemplary job of it. The western rite is ready and waiting for him!
But it is not Eastern Orthodox designation
- Orthodox Catholic, whereby the Western Roman Catholic Church did not like this very much.
After all we were all once upon a time Catholic .
Just a thought.
You can’t serve two masters
Don t like seeing orthodox and Catholics squabble. They are like twins who grew apart. And argue over semantics when they both believe in our Lord Jesus Christ
Your point is understandable. The Trinity is not semantics! Papal Supremacy is not semantics. Both Churches need to come to an understanding. I came from a Roman Catholic background. It lead to encounter Christ as a teen in the Charismatic Renewal. 10 years later God led me to Orthodoxy. Now my wife and are very happy. We are closer to Christ and to each other.
Orthodoxy sees people as spiritually ill. RCism sees people as guilty of Adam's sin (even though nowadays they've soften on this traditional stance). This is why they believe in the Immaculate Conception. I invite u to visit an Orthodox Liturgy if u haven't. When God is experienced, theology makes sense.
If I ask you if experience of God is a direct interaction with God, I am sure you would say yes. When Moses spoke to God “face to face”, wasn’t in a direct interaction? Yes. However, the Catholics don’t believe this if they stay faithful to their teachings. This is not semantics or insignificant
Good people, nice people in all religious and I have met very very good people in atheism, as a former atheist, in Islam as I know muslims, in JW's as I have a JW friend, there are so many nice and good people all over the world.
But, sorry guys, the only real church is the Orthodox church.-
The Orthodox church as our fathers and saints and martyrs gave to us, not as few modern priests would like to be, with all these new ecoumenical political cosmic and papecylike ideas..
I'm sure it is never meant to be, but Catholics should know the 2 lung thing means pretty much nothing to Orthodox. It was pretty weak the first time I heard it long ago, it isn't improving with age. Think of some other way of saying I really wish we were in communion. Say it among yourselves, leave it at home when talking to the Orthodox.
Interfaith dialogue at its base .
Just 2 people who just have their own views on the precepts of their beliefs. Nothing to do with inner subjective feelings. He turned to roman Catholicism because its the only church that justifies it fake history of the true church.
"In order to belong to the Orthodox Church two principal conditions are required: to correctly believe in divine revelation; to obey the lawful hierarchy instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ himself, through the holy apostles, in matters of salvation." ~ St Sebastian Dabovich
Roman Catholicism is an abomination. May the pious faithful return to the One Church, the Orthodox.
I guess too much privelege, education and whiteness can make even the religion of Jesus bland.
You’re not worthy of that St Benedict medal. You are an ideologue, not a Christian.
Orthodoxy is FAR PREFERABLE to the Papal Frankish Prots. Sorry not Sorry. In Orthodoxy, there is so much more to appreciate.
This is all about belief in things ( like the Virgin Mary, Virgin Birth, Resurrection of the Dead and others) without any evidence or historical truth.....but if that makes one happy so be it. Dogma, creed, canons - it's all just like a club with rules. However religious rules have nothing to do with anything - why is being a virgin important, why a virgin birth, why belief in jesus' miracles which would have had world attention if they actually occurred, but we don't hear anything about them except from Christian writers who wanted to promote this cult or branch of Judaism. Jesus was a Jew and nothing else, he certainly wasn't a Christian. So, in essence Christians are a sect of Judaism. Why not throw out what really has no importance or even "help" for life. And why not take out religious statements that are harmful ( having slaves, killing people of other religions, killing non-virgins). Why is the world "fallen"??? Why not encourage people's well-being and confidence in themselves.....religions just polarize society and have caused too many wars to even be considered as "holy". The holy spirit, the blessed virgin mother and the son of a god are all imaginary just as Thoth, Isis, Ganesh, Satan and others.
St. John Chrisostom said horrible things about people - especially gay people. I don't know how the church could call him a saint. Jesus never did the Orthodox Liturgy or the Roman Mass............people (men) made all this up. If jesus existed his "liturgy" was just a meeting/gathering of people...........all the rest is invented to control people.
Shootayib Yukhrabaytak we have true apostolic succession and our Saints still work miracles today did u know Lazarus second grave is in Cyprus it’s in an Orthodox Church and his skull as well Saint Luke painted many Orthodox icons many of our icons stream mhhyr and oil and work miracles
Lets see...hmm , you are an absolute fool....why ? Because you think in man's terms not in a Godly spiritual way. Lots of love and prayers for you , truely.
Lots of love and prayers for you truely ...you think in mans terms not spiritually with faith hope & charity. You definitely have NOT had a supernatural experience of God . If you ever do in this life , you'll change your mind ! All the best for you :)