Exciting new SPD installation - with cock-up!
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- čas přidán 26. 09. 2019
- *ERROR IN VID: READ DESCRIPTION!*
Yes, there is indeed a cock-up with this one. As pointed out in the pinned comment, this installation does not comply with reg 534.8 *dammit*! Let me explain why so you lot don't make the same mistake as the dashing and handsome chap in this video!
When installing an SPD externally and in parallel like I have here, the line distance counts, so the length of my tail into this board is part of the 0.5 metre length we want to be under. My tail here is perhaps about 60cm. If installing a consumer unit with a built-in SPD, then the tail length is largely irrelevant as the SPD is already close and in parallel with the final circuits inside the CU, so only the line length from the main switch/MCB to the SPD would be counted (along with the earth from SPD to the MET).
If installing an SPD externally to the CU, the best bet is something like the Wylex product shown towards the start of this video as it squashes the surge before it gets to the CU. If connecting one up in parallel such as I have here, it would need to be right at the origin of the installation, as close as you can get to the supplier's equipment.
Sorry for the mistake, I don't know how I didn't spot that in reg 534.8. My thanks to CZcams user "Number 33" for picking that up, and to the great JW for clarifying on Twitter! A follow-up video has now been uploaded addressing all this: • Surge protection - a c...
Those pesky knock-outs: no I couldn't reverse the DIN rail as it's not square to the board, so the cover won't fit back on unless it's upside down with the lid flapping open. Yes, I could rearrange the devices on the DIN rail, but to move the main switch left I would have to bin the busbar and install a 16mm wire to route the switch output to the MCB. It's not the case that these things can't be done, more a question of how much do I need to modify this off-the-shelf solution in order to install it!
Related videos:
• Surge protection - a c... - An update to this video!
www.dses.co.uk/index.php/free...
• How to Fit a Type 2 SP... (GSH)
At 28:05 when you said "This little brown loop here about 7 cm long" surely you meant to say "this not so little loop here from the henley block to the isolator to the SPD about 60cm long".
Wait... shit. I might have got my facts wrong. Reg 534.8 does include the line length to the OCPD. Couldn't you have piped up before I uploaded this instead of pissing on my Saturday evening??
@@dsesuk Where would be the fun in that?
It's an excellent point, and you have thoroughly ruined my drunken evening plans! Well, not the drunken bit. It does raise the question though about these new SPD boards we're buying. Most installations I'd retrofit these into are not likely to comply it seems; even a short tail like the one I've used here will screw the maths. I've thrown open the question on Twitter and pinned this thread, so let's see what the world says!
@@dsesuk The diagram at 27:20 shows how it should be done, it's just a shame that it isn't remotely practical. The add-on box with the SPD needs to have its own Henley block for the Line connection. Just whack in a Wago, no-one will know, apart from your 10,000 subscribers.
The great man himself agrees with you: twitter.com/jwflame/status/1178030120830951425
What a bummer.
Great rant. Totally agree with you 👍
Thanks Chris. Together we can bring this industry down from the inside!
Wait which rant?
Hey, stop watching Davids videos and get back to making your own!
Nah, you guys are alright
Atleast you understand the issueand the problem with the dno plenty of CZcams electricians don't even know what the dno is. We know it's a health and safety issue for pulling the fuse. And if there not supplying isolators or liking to come out because it's not profitable. A company I worked for had an agreement with the dno for pulling cutouts all you needed was a G39 working in vicinity of the dno certificate, a face Shield some mappa gloves. This problem could easily solved by selling this training and agreement to electricians, everyone is happy they make money and not at a loss and life is easier for electricians. The dno and niceic need to sit down and add it as a package into the sign up.
Cut the seal. it's in your way. you're not stealing (abstracting) electricity. It's up to them to prove it. But insurance issues when the 100 yr old service head disintegrates... i don't have an opinion on
That was a great rant about the DNO and suppliers. All very true and equally frustrating as a electrician! The number of times I was on hold because the customer support had no idea what an isolator was became annoying! Great video as always.
That's right Chris, it's all about getting through to the right person and the right call centre!
Congrats on the 10k; You're one of the best sparkies on YT and you should be proud!
Dunno about that. Certainly the most foul-mouthed.
@@dsesuk "one of", ha ha
@@dsesuk you are the best in my opinion aswell i like others your just so down to earth and switched on lol
You're very kind to day so gents, but I have cocked up on this one, so do check the updated video description!
@@dsesuk mate the strongest thing is admitting that, you put your self in way of scrutiny and people like me who pick this up not that we do it to be horrible just want you to be the best you can be sometimes the guys here are your support and here to support you
Your presentation style is unique, amusing but also very highly informative. Thank you David, congrats on 10K, hope to see you achieve 1M.
Thanks John. I'm not sure there are that many people wanting to hear me use bad language about electrical installations!
Well spoken David about the isolator.👍
It is ridiculous that all smart meters wernt designed with built in isolators
Well done David, your material is fantastic, and great comedy value too! Always look forward to your content!, onwards and upwards 👍🏻
Upwards? Things are always spiralling downwards at this end!
David, congratulations on 10k. watched several of your videos, and have learned bugger all about electrical work.
But I have picked up a few useful tips - I now drink my Special Brew in a martini glass, with an olive. It's that sort of sophistication that sets you apart from the rest of the channels. Well done.
Thanks John, I'm glad I was at least able to add a touch of class to your beer swilling!
Always interesting, informative and hugely entertaining. Congratulations on reaching 10k
Thanks Mike!
Congrats on 10k, keep em coming.
I second your rant, and the look on a client's face when you say you can't do a CU change as I can't isolate the power is usually enough for me to say. "Don't worry about it, I'll sort it" ...... Yoink!!!!
I don't undertake many CU changes, only a handful per year, and I prefer to get an isolator installed via Haste for a planned job, but I showed that on a video once and had someone commenting that they worked for a DNO and weren't even happy with that arrangement, even though Haste are permitted to work on their kit. Whatever you do, you can't win it seems.
@@dsesuk Really? What was his point???!! Need to find someone local that can do that for me, Haste don't operate in my area. I ask every spark I come across, they all give me the same blank look and say, what don't you just pull the fuse.
Talking of CU changes, I have one coming up and there are 12 mcbs, and 25 circuits, how would you approach that? I was thinking of adding a few extra MCB's to split some up but aside from a space issue the client does not want two CU's, use some Wagos to join them together seems a bit janky, putting them into the same MCB not much better . Might be able to squeeze an enclosure in next to CU but the wires are a bit short and I'd have to extend them which just seems stupid as well. Blah.
@@oliverriall I think his point was just to sound like he knew better and be the big man! That's an awful lot of circuits. Personally, I don't like to common up circuits in MCB's, although I may combine a few to get the numbers down. An example would be where a doorbell or understairs light are on their own individual circuits; I might splice them into the ground floor lighting circuit rather than have them sitting on their own breakers. Biggest board I fitted (domestically single phase) was a CP Fusebox model I showed in another video. Twenty usable ways, 19 of which I outfitted with RCBO's for that installation. Not a bad price either.
Great video as per usual David S. Can I just say that all the hard working, self employed sparks out there are right behind you, when it comes to common sense with pulling DNO fuses! The whole industry is running with so much lag, another delay just makes us all look incompetent and unskilled. Great install and it's good to mention knockouts some boards are just shit for that.
Cheers James. I don't pull fuses often, only as necessary. If I'm changing out a CU and the client isn't prepared to pay Haste's (reasonable) price for an isolator installation, then I'm not likely to take on the job. I've enough to do without cheapskates or people not prepared to have the job done to my standards! It's curious about the knockouts on this one though. I presume it was an existing enclosure on their production line that they figured would just work for this application.
I pull main fuses out to connect up my growing lamps before the meter 😯
Another great video, agree with you on the knockouts here, it’s really annoying but I assume you’re right as in it’s an existing enclosure they have used. I’d just use the old step cutter to enlarge the hole and curse it whilst I was doing it...rather then curse tails trying to bend them, hate doing that it’s always a pain! Keep up the good work and content mate as always 👍🏻
@@dsesuk Dave, it's prob the same metal enclosure the company bought from another manufacturer to save on tooling costs and mass production to keep "their own" costs down, it's how the world works now...sad but true..but it may come to bite them on their own bum!..nice idea though, i may need to sell some to my customers :-)
@@Klberts1234 Lets hope your "growing lamps don't short and take the street out... Knock Knock.. it's da law! :-)
What a brilliant video. Love all the explanations, fantastic David. Super duper ranting. And your contribution to all who follow you is second to none! 👍👍
Cheers Richard, glad you found it useful. Look out for an update video on this subject later this week!
US Sparktrician here. In FL we get huge amounts of lighting. We have a client (radiation cancer treatment center) that had the transformer outside their building hit. The surge into the building exploded the MOVs inside the steel case of their SPD and bulged the cover out about 1/2". It also took out a UPS on a CT scanner and some of the under-voltage controls in the feed panel. Lighting can do a huge amount of damage when I strikes near a house. The pole behind my house was hit about 5 years ago, destroyed the phone pedestal at the base of the pole melted the wire from there to my house. The phone company has a small SPD in their demark box on my house that was smoked also. My house has a footer ground with #4 bare solid copper and then goes to (3) 10' copper clad rods in a 10' triangle and then to my 120' deep steel well casing. SPD in my service and in my media box. No damage in my house. My neighbors lost TVs and other electronics. SPDs and grounding go great together.
Thanks Jonathan. We just get to enjoy the rain without the light show at this end for the most part. I imagine it's a whole other headache in warmer and more humid climates!
One of my fav electricians on CZcams 👍
Cheers chief!
I asked Scottish Power to fit an Isolator for me before a CU upgrade & the engineers kept failing to turn up (5 appointments over about 6 months!), they were going sick etc. To cut a long story short It turned out all the engineers were subcontractors only used to fitting meters & were not qualified electricians, they didn't have a clue about isolator switches. The guy who did it eventually had to send his supervisor's boss a photo & get him to tell him what to do. Then send another photo so he could tell him what he had done wrong... The good bit was they had to pay me for every missed appointment so I made a tidy profit.
Very interested to hear about Haste.
Sounds like a shambles Robin. I'm glad to hear you weren't out of pocket on it, but I imagine your client wasn't too impressed with the delays!
i don't understand how someone would be qualified to fit a meter but not an isolator. The skills are the same. Weird.
Good knowledgeable labor costs a lot. Low skilled labor is much cheaper and more common since most work is fairly basic. So it generally takes a bit to find a good knowledgeable technician for troubleshooting or very technical issues.
@@jondonnelly4831 they have no knowledge of electricity 1 week course on fitting smart meters and they are out messing with your mains supplies
After a tough day Jobbing about, your videos, make me smile, keep up the good work !
Congratulations Dave on the 10k ! Keep the videos coming ....
Thanks, more to come (hopefully).
Best rant on DNO’s I’ve heard and everything you said is correct. Keep the good work going!
Thanks Andy.
@@dsesuk I totally agree about DNO's Dave, why oh why...when they decided to install smart meters did they not decide to include Main Isolators?..easy job, updates customers supplies, ... oh yeah...money" a £12 Wilex 100A from screwfix would save us sparkies a migrane and guilt trip, but they want the "nieve" among us to call them out for a quick buck! to install one... ;-) I think as long as you DO NOT CUT the meter seals they are fine, that's the only way to stop abstraction without some know how ;-)
Smart meters are installed by MOPs not DNOs
speaking to the electricity suppliers are a fu@$ing nightmare , no contractors switch ever and no clue on the phone as to why you need fuse out!? meters fitted in late 90s had contractors switch, they hate putting switch in.
Brilliant, love your diatribe on the DNOs and suppliers, absolutely bang on and exactly what I do too.
Great video as always David! Congrats on 10k!!
Thanks Kurt!
Hi David , Like you have been doing this job for a while now ( over 40 years ) just wanted to say great videos and love your turn of phrase. Keep up the good work !
Cheers Tony
3:58 Could you not remount the Main switch on the rail to the left of the Surge Protector - thus giving you the straight run you require for the tails?
Hi David, 10K well done. Intro reminded me of OZ from Auf Wiedersehen Pet, He was partial to a good scatch of the bollocks
Those pubic lice really need you to dig in at times.
Real world Videos, beautifully made David. Excellent work!!!
Thanks for all the effort you put into the game and these videos ! Top guy.
Cheers Marcus, be sure to check the description for how I got this one wrong though!
I work for a dno, definitely agree an isolator should be fitted probably would of even saved the meter installer time. As for the blocks being sealed its not so that electricians cant open them up, its company’s procedures to show their installer was the last person in them and is therefore responsible for any issues such as loose connections, once seals are gone its clear someone has opened them up so the responsibility is no longer the suppliers.
Thanks Stuart, that makes sense.
Loved the beginning Dave 😏
Cheers Geoff
Well done David with reaching 10,000. Great video and topic, especially your view on pulling fuses.
Thanks David, but there is a technical error as it transpires, so do check the updated description!
Great rant. Great video as always. Congratulations on the 10k 👍👏👏
I thank you sir!
“A biscuit tin of wank” 😂😂 Enjoyable Saturday morning viewing Mr S 👍🏻
Thanks big guy.
Yes indeed.
What is the Impedance of a "Biscuit tin of wank"? I imagine it's quite low :-)
Great video
Sorry if silly question but installing the spd seperate from the dB does it not only protect the incoming supply and not the outgoing circuits, as when the spike accurs by a cusuner product on consumer side its already damaged the equipment by the time it reaches the spd via the Henley blocks,
I ask this as spd still confuse me in there protection methods
Stephen, that is not a silly question. That is, in fact, an excellent question. And y'know, now you've got me wondering about the effectiveness of this installation, because if the surge is coming from something like the pool pump, then it's on the final circuit side and in the Hager board before it gets to my SPD.... I guess time will tell whether the SPD, installed remotely to the man CU, acts quickly enough to prevent damage, but thank you for ruining my day.
I think they are supposed to protect from transient overvoltages from the incoming distribution network rather than the other way round
@@dsesuk I do apologise was not my aim it's an ongoing battle in my own mind to where to position an spd for any afficiant effect to then justify the additional cost and justification to a customer
@@stephenlaw8860 No apology necessary, it's an excellent point. To be honest, I'd expect a rise in voltage from either the supply or final circuit side to get into the whole installation pretty damn quickly, and I'm surprised these short wiring lengths are a consideration at all as I can't see them making much difference, but I guess the IET know what they're talking about. Watch this space, and we'll see if problems persist!
David Savery Electrical Services Maybe I can give you back your peaceful weekend... That SPD with all the overcurrent and isolation is finally just a pair of MOVs wired to ground. So if a spike comes from an inductive load (swimming pool pump, heat pump etc.) to the CU, it will have the sting taken out of it by the MOVs that are effectively in parallel with the bus bars and should protect the whole installation.
Dave every time I watch your video I feel more confident each day .Regards
Your so knowledgeable because you explain things in a way that is so easy to understand which can only be done if you know what you're doing,
Did you verify with the previous customer that the SPD stopped their lights blowing? Or did they maybe just stop calling you back to report the lights blowing as you said you won't cover them?
You're right, I've made an assumption that problems are resolved on that last site, but I never said I would no longer honour the warranty; I recommended the SPD be installed to rule out surge events as the cause. If problems persist at that site, I would expect them to report back to me as their lamps are still under warranty, especially as the SPD is in place.
@@dsesuk I always state on the invoice that LED lighting is covered by manufacturers warranty, but my labour is not, so still chargeable ;-) new policy. However, I have fitted LAP lighting which has 3Year warranty and had very little failures, but when i do, still get my call out.
Totally agree dno needs to get there act together , I will carry on breaking seals
Do what you gotta do it seems. I prefer to get an isolator installed where my planning allows, but I'm not going to break into a sweat where I need act quickly and have been given no other quick and cost-effective reasonable option.
Great vid as usual and thanks very much. Just one thing, you mentioned a swimming pool and the system is PME. This is very dangerous if the supply Neutral drops out as all pools need to be TT and separated from any PME connections. I was wandering if the old isolator may have been for the pool pump equipment and was earth staked at some point?
Brilliant David, 100% agree with you about provision for isolation being made available for installers. We've all being saying the same thing for years. On a side note, it's a bit strange we have a test label for RCD's but not one advising how often the window on an SPD should be inspected.
Don't put any ideas in their heads Alvin! I'm sure 18th Edition Amendment 1 will demand yet another massive label to be applied to every SPD installation, cryptically advising these things are checked every fifth Wednesday!
Nicely put David about isolators
The DNO’s need to get their act together 😊
That's true in general unfortunately...
Why does a fuse even need sealing? It would take enormous bollocks to connect from the fuse holder to anything to abstract power. Even then it would be a struggle to get the happy-herb growing circuit wire in the fuse holder as well as the actual fuse surely ?
@@GeorgeStyles Not just for abstracting but as a stamp to say for sure that the MOP or jointer was the last person onsite and therefore liable for any faults left. If an electrician cuts it, they kind of remove some of that liability from the DNO/supplier. But on the abstracting side of things, people do abstract power in every way you can imagine including jointing (with varying success levels) to the phase cable from the street or pole. They rarely care whether the fuse is left intact or doing its job - especially if for a grow, where loads can exceed 63/80/100A. Seals aren't really there for that as criminals will crime regardless.
@@OkenWS aha! Cool... Jointing hahha. Anyway glad David didn't do it hot as the video would have had a solid 15 mins of him scratching his nuts instead of 5 :) on a serious note, that makes sense, thanks :)
i just cut the seal and pull the fuse, never had a comeback in 30 years....
This is worth a comment.
My TV YT app doesnt give me that option so for the second time this year I'm making a comment.
Love your thoughts on seals and suppliers, DNO.
And the way you described it. Great patter Mate. All the best!
Thanks for making the effort to comment, I appreciate it!
Very good as I may need to install an external SPD very soon and wasn't sure how to do it. Now I do, nice one David!
Ffs just pull the bloody fuse everyone does it!
You shouldn't bloody have to.
Great to know that the SPD solved the LED blowing issue!
Seems to have done so thus far Jordan, but now that I've said it, I'll probably get callbacks from both sites with more failures.
Can you replace the cartridges in those spds? Cos if getting that many surges it might not last that long!
what is the size of the CPC cable from SURGE PROTECTION DEVICE to the earth terminal ? And MCB 16A or bigger ...maybe smaller ?
6mm I think. That's specified in 534.4.10.
Apart from some most useful informatio, guidance and advice (THANK YOU DAVID) - I must however comment (with much humorous self-satisfaction) your somewhat surreptitious insertions, (every now and then - completely under the wire, as it would appear) full range of uncensored expletives >> which NOT ONLY adequately emphasizes your getting PISSED OFFwith some entity >>> But TOTALLY CRACKS ME UP, (from all the way here in CAPE TOWN).
Subscribed, liked and shared!!
(THANK YOU DAVID!!) ♥️👍😘
Cheers Anthony, and thanks for the sub!
This whole 'fit metal enclosures debacle to reduce fires from arcing tails would have been much more simply solved by mandating twin screw terminals on main switches-- meters, cutouts, DNO isolators, Henley blocks, old wylex boards, CEFs M2 boards all have two screws per tail
Must admit, I took out an old wylex board the other day, and I thought, these the quality, despite being 30 years old
Not to mention certain manufacturers actually complying with the British standard and not just sticking the mark on their boards that failed the hot wire test. How there was never a recall on those products I do not know.
But the attitude seems to be, deal with the symptoms and not the cause. If the dick heads installing boards actually did it correctly we would still be using plastic boards, but because it was effecting London, we all have to bow to the capital and do something about it. Thank you London fire brigade. And you limp wristed cockneys.
KMF fused isolators are the fucking worst with their single screw. The amount of those that have just shit out their tails when touched because of the single shitty terminal held in by wank plastic pins (gosh, that was a lot of cursing) blows my mind. I've even broken the plastic terminal retainer when trying to replace the dropped tails and get the cover (which the electrician failed to install properly) on safely.
Shower pull cord switches had 2 screws and cooker switches too , I have changed lots of burnt out shower pull cords because of loose connections. They probably were tight before they were shoved up into the back box and twisted making them come loose 😕
@@dennisphoenix1 yeah, true no matter how tight you do those terminals, you can bet the swines will come loose.
Just move the modules around and leave the rail in place
unfortunatly the busbar comes out the live on the left hand side ! so you would have to connect it to the negative terminal marked on the main switch , i have had the same problem with what looks like the same box from another brand , nice box but not thought through for the user!
Top bloke. Love learning from you
The rant about the DNO, Cock up, relevant exchange / sharing of information, makes this top class.. thanks, look forward to more of.....
Really useful explanation on how to achieve compliance with the refs when installing SPDs. Totally agree with you on the lack of isolation. The Smart Meter spec should have mandated a consumer-accessible isolator.
Thanks Tony, and you're quite right about the smart meters, what an opportunity lost!
couldnt you have removed the SPD and shifted the isolator and MCB along and then stick the SPD on the right hand side of the isolator ?? the length of conductors would still be under half a metre but the tails would be neater ???
Firsteerr Lastmwwew think dave was just meaning it should come with the knock outs the other way rather than him having to alter himself. But you could sort it by doing it your way just involves bit more work.
It could be modified, but really, should I have to rearrange it out of the box? Also, I'd have to change the busbar as the polarity of the main switch is such that line comes from the left terminal. Or I could reverse polarity on the switch, it doesn't make any difference after all, but that would look odd and wouldn't comply with how Lewden designed it.
I know you shouldn't have to and more thought should have gone into the design but on this occasion, I would have used a cone bit and opened out the smaller hole on the right to accommodate the main tail gland.
Excellent video mate mate love watching your antics 👍
Thanks for your support Richard!
Awesome as ever mate. Well done on the 10k. 👍👌
Cheers Alex.
David 'The Electrical Punk' Savery.
Sticking it to the establishment.
John Lydon would be proud 😆
The ol' two-finger salute comes in handy for most situations I find myself in these days.
Just slide the 100amp along din rail..and reconfigure rest ??..... loved your rant about cut out fuse removal,we have all been there !!!
Doable, but then I'd have to replace the busbar that comes with it as the line is on the left of the main switch. It's a question of how much I want to reconfigure something that should really roll out of the factory ready to go.
Cone cutter!
David Savery Electrical Services Good point, I wish some of these manufacturers would just stand back for fucking 30 seconds and think about it ....but they don’t !!!
@@dsesuk Your right mate they should have seen that. you don't wanna be messing around trying to fix a problem that shouldn't even exist in the first place.. love your vids keep up the good work its muchly appreciated and CONRATULATIONS on 10k that's fannytastic :) also do you know how the device stops the surges? Im gunna guess there's a large metal oxide varistor in there, from what you said about there being aa window to view the condition of the devices arse (blown out or not) lol anyways again cool vid thanks Dave..... Steve
@@T2D.SteveArcs Thanks Mr Destruction. Yes, I think it's a varistor in the thing. Either that and/or a spark gap.
Excellent video David - very informative! Agree with all your deductions. Is it possible to move the SPD and Isolator in the Board left to right to enable tails to enter directly above?
Thanks Richard. I could rearrange the board, but I'd have to bin the busbar as it would be coming out the wrong side of the main switch. A 16mm wire would have to loop out of the switch and into the MCB, so it becomes a question of how much re-jiggng you want to do with the thing straight out of the box.
Well done for the 10k subs 👍
Thank you sir!
first important job rearrange 'crown jewels'
There's just no room for your junk when wearing women's underwear under your site trousers.
@@dsesuk At last my suspicions were correct about you, you're just a bloody pervert, you are still my favourite funny & knowledgeable spark on CZcams.
BTW Congrats on the 10k... Regards from Ray the old sod from North West Wales..
@@raywelshman Cheers again Ray, you old bugger!
I always pull the main fuse I must have cut hundreds of seals over the years,
Stick it to 'em Dan!
Western Power Distribution are clamping down on it. Absolute joke!
@@mrelectronicsdude WPD down by me can't seem to even inspect their own network for glaring safety faults on a semi-regular basis. Surely they don't have the resources. I get the impression they've been almost entirely working response jobs for some time now, at least in my area.
In NI, the DNO says it’s the sparky’s job to pull the fuse. It’s a crime if you don’t seal it afterwards.
Nice video.
Could it have been connected from the Henley blocks to the new double pole switch and then to the consumer unit, in turn providing an isolation point for future works?
I have not worked in the UK for over 12 years, I was 16th edition trained and live in Oz now.
Great video AGAIN and excellent point & explanation about the wire length Thanks for taking the time to make it
Thanks Colin, I'm glad you found it useful!
"Unlike Plumbing this is a Noble Industry" 🤙
Nobel or Noble 🤔
@@beardedsparks2825 A simple typo.
Mate just wanna say you are the best electrician ive ever seen
Hello, my circuit breaker box would be around 2 metters away from spd box i want to install. Is it correct if i use 2 m cable coming out from main circuit breaker to go inside the mcb and after to use short cable to go in the spd? Thank you
I have been there my self one time I was fitting a isolator switch then am being asked why be a so called NIC guy. I told him the fuse box is being changed very soon as an kitchen extension is being built. He then chats crap so I asked him a basic cable calculation he walks away.
You're the first electrician CZcamsr I've come across who actually has a brain. Seriously. There are a lot of competent electricians on CZcams, but I watch them and think, why have you made a channel? You don't have anything original to share, no original through, no insight, just bog standard day to day shit I do day in day out, why would I want to watch someone brag about the fact they're just doing their job?
Glad I found your channel, please keep making content.
How do you calculate the mcb feeding the spd if you have a 3phase 100amp db? Trying to plan a retro fit
You are the best man 🤣🤣keep up the good work im learning a lot 20k soon
Thanks Mick. Not sure I'll ever quite get to such dizzying heights.
Could you use a Q-max punch or something to make the right-hand knockout hole bigger?
Re the issue with the knock outs being the wrong way round, could the devices not be re arranged on the DIN rail. Cover has 4 slots, 3 for devices,1 for blanking plate?
Thank you for the videos amount of things I learn as per your experience I am great full of.
I was wondering as in future videos are you able to share more test results for more detailed information regarding some of the reading.
Thank you
David I want to ask you question if you cut your main switch off then you still have power in your board is that correct ?
Love the attitude mate, loved it so much I subscribed!! lol
Welcome to this dank corner of CZcams Cesar.
Loved your end comments and totally agree. Thanks for sharing
with regards to why you fitted the SPD in the first place, did it solve the problem with the LED lamps.
Loving the start of this video 😂😂
When you have an itch, you've gotta take care of it.
Does the the surge protection enclosure really need 25mm tails ?
I salute you sir. Cracking rant about an isolator. David you should be a union rep for all us Sparky's. Top video👍👍
Thanks Darren, and I'd like to volunteer for the job! If you and every other sparkie in the country would like to mail me a modest £5 union membership charge, I'll get right onto it from my office in Tahiti!
love watching your videos as an overseas sparky its great to see how its done in the UK
I'm perhaps showing how *not* to do it in the UK! Where in the world are you bdawinton?
I like your straight talking, great video thank you.
A bloody brilliant video as usual. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, but there is a technical error so do check the updated description!
@@dsesuk Still a bloody good video though, and brilliant that you admit your mistakes and let people know. Thanks.
I make these mistakes so you don't have to!
Spat me tea out at the very beginning of the vid....I thought OH NO he's doing a plumbing vid........ .Seriously, which is hard for me, a great vid ..well explained and still lots of humour....loved the rant...congrats on the 10,000...Looking forward to the next one...Right I'm off to fetch a cloth for this tea
Cheers Marky, the ball-scratching was just for your tea purposes!
How can I get less expensive isolator switch fitted since I have been quoted 198 for fitting so by Green Energy?
Its a pain that most DNOs fail to properly provide isolation that we can use access and use in compliance with the E@WR. Personally SSE allowed me to go to the local engineering department and pick up temporary seals that allowed me to cut the DNO seals and put in the DP isolator! Good work!
Fully agree with you about isolation. I was fortune when they did the smart meters they installed a double pole isolator.
Hi just trying to understand the function of the 32a Mcb. If I didn’t have room for a big box like that, but had 1 spare way in cu. could I connect spd to a B16?
Yes, this device requires a 16 - 32A MCB which, I think, is there should it fail short circuit. The SPD's built into the consumer units seem to lack overcurrent protection though, so I'm currently trying to find out if they have some kind of integral fuse. I should have an update video later this week to address some of the questions this video has raised and to hopefully show another product!
Great video. Are spd ok to fit at the incomer where it diverts off to 2 sub mains?
Yes, and that would be the best way to do it as one SPD could protect both boards and squash anything before it gets there. There is a technical error in this video, so do check the updated description!
Another great video David, congratulations on the 10k! I agree with the rant, such a hassle to get anyone out in good time around here! One thought with this separate DB do we need to be providing a means of isolating the entire installation from one point. I.e. An isolator before the Henley blocks. I haven't got the regs Infront of me as away for the weekend but sure there is something in 537 about single point. I guess you could argue that the second DB has no outgoing ways so nothing outside the enclosure would remain live if the customer thought they had isolated using the "big red switch" in DB 1.
Thanks James. I'm not aware of a regulatory requirement for a single means of isolation for an entire installation, and it's not uncommon to find sites with separate independent boards, especially where solar PV or EV chargers have been installed. Do let me know if you find something lurking in Section 5 though!
Question? Why did the main 16mm earth have to be re-routed through the Lewden box as you commented that the small earth link was the "under 0.5m" required to satisfy the applicable reg? Would an earth link from the SPD to the existing CU not satisfy the requirements for some reason or was it there were no spare connections in the earth bar or maybe another Henley block for the earth would suffice. Just looking at different possible arrangements is all
This is very useful information, cheers David. I will give this a go as one pub garden festoon lighting install is constantly popping LED lamps, yet other installs using the same LED lamps have had very few failures, (the nominal voltage on this site is between 236V - 239V)!
Cheers. This might be anecdotal, but desperate times call for desperate measures. And why are the troublesome warranty sites always the ones that are furthest away?? You can also get a Type 3 SPD which is just for protecting particular items of equipment, so that may be easier and cheaper than installing something at source.
Great to watch someone from the real world of electrical contractors
Watching your videos is like watching a Blackadder writer in the writers room :)
Cheers Zak!
Good point, though slightly grovelly.
Hi David, Love the video's, is "the biscuit tin of wank" a technical term? and if so where can I get one. Couldn't agree more about the isolation problem with DNO's and supply companies.
Yes, it's in BS7671. Somewhere near the back I think...
@@dsesuk Thanks David I will look it up
Queation on spds in consumers. Do they all need to be fed from there own mcb or straight from main switch? I have seen both and very curious.
You're right Barry, there have been both, but the 'direct from main-switch' is falling out of favour. Some brands which had the direct connection (such as Fusebox) have now switched to it being breaker-fed, although they say there's no need to go back and retrofit MCB's to older boards that lacked them. I think this is for two reasons: firstly, if the SPD fails short circuit, it should thermally break contact before the main fuse pops, but it's arguably still a better design for it to be on its own OCPD than anything relying on the main fuse. Secondly, reg 584.3 requires the line and earth wiring to be less than a metre long 'between connection points', but also states connections between the SPD and any external OCPD be kept as short and straight as possible. That's easy to achieve if it's off an MCB in the same enclosure, but if its the supplier fuse then that can be several metres away. I don't know for sure, but I suspect the move to hanging an SPD off a breaker is to show full compliance with 534.8 and manufacturers will switch to that if they haven't already. Personally, the last CU I fitted with an SPD off the main switch I moved onto a 32A MCB just to be sure.
Brilliant video as always👍
Thanks Jon.
I love the rage with DNO
did you have anymore failures or did this do the trick ?
I have heard from somewhere that a smart meter may not reconnect after a main fuse removal where there is loss of power that is not a power outage and the meter can ping a tamper alarm to the dno, do you have any idea if this is possible? As you pointed out, this is such a common situation. Great video, and food for thought.
I haven't heard that's the case with the fuse, and I doubt it is such, but I know that the smart meters can tell when they've had their own terminals accessed as the cover usually pops a little micro-switch when removed. Even where I've seen that's happened, it hasn't caused the meter to switch off. If withdrawing a fuse to, say, perform a CU change did clock a meter off, you could proceed with the work, call out the DNO and wallop a hole in the old board. Then, when they turn up, you say you had no choice but to cut the juice as exposed copper was on show, it was immediately dangerous and you *had* to power down and change it out right there and then!
Wouldn't this arrangement cause problems after a power cut ? As an it geek I strongly suspect those meters arent sufficiently smart to have thought of that and allowed a remote override
George Styles Nope, its programmed that way instead, on some smartmeters. as you may know, they're monitoring 24/7 over a large network. and a single smartmeter(single account) power-loss event is flagged as 'investigable'. on the other hand, a community/group of smartmeter power-loss would be flagged as localised DNO faults/outages. they will(depending on programed security command), remotely disconnect the supply to singles' power-loss until they get their justification sorted out frm the customer.
Hi! Excellent video. Here's a dumb question. If there is a surge, doesn't the spd "trip" in some way? Can it then be reset, or does it have to be replaced? If so - isn't that very inconvenient and expensive (more expensive than a blown light bulb or two)? Excuse my ignorance, but just a question that occurs to me.
Hi Ronny. The SPD is more electrical than electromechanical, so when an overvoltage event occurs, an electrical path opens up to dump the excess voltage to earth. This is either done using a varistor - a resistor whose resistance drops as voltage increases, a gas discharge tube - a gap between two electrodes in a sealed gas tube that allows the overvoltage to arc over to earth, a transient voltage suppressor - a semiconductor which electrically opens a path to earth when its breakdown voltage is exceeded, or a combination of the above or similar. At least, that's my limited understanding. As such, small transients are shunted to earth electrically very quickly, and the devices reset to their normal characteristics once the event has passed. Many small events can therefore be ironed out over the years, although a suitably large or prolonged surge can damage such devices irreparably. The damage tends to cause them to fail short circuit in which case they overheat and a thermal fuse (or solder joint) fails causing them to mechanically disconnect and indicate failure visually through a flag window or LED indicator. The failure of an SPD won't cut the power, so the installation will remain operative, albeit unprotected. Once failed, units such as that shown here can be replaced with a new plug-in module.
That's helpfull. Mayby silly question but., it would be possible to put that kind of upgrade with SPD for only one phase of 3 phase fuse box? I'm Domestic installer only then please be gentle.
Hi Pawel. Yes, an SPD would be applied per phase, either as an individual unit such as this installed just on one phase, or via a three-phase SPD which is really just three individual units stuck together to protect L1, L2 and L3. If you only wanted to provide surge protection for one phase, perhaps because it has a sensitive item of equipment connected or a 'dirty' item like a compressor spiking the line, then you could install a unit such as this just on that phase.