Titanium Bolt Carrier, What's the Difference? Walker Defense
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- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
- Do you need a titanium bolt carrier? Well that is a bit of a nuanced topic. The answer is "it depends".
The titanium bolt carrier from Walker Defense Research is a low mass carrier for those who want to extend the life of their rifle. These are designed to be used in concert with an adjustable gas block. paired together they generate a gentle recoil impulse and an overall very slow carrier speed without compromising functionality
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Hey folks this video was demonetized right out of the gate. If you could help me out and interact with the video it would help out a lot.
Nero Comps video: czcams.com/video/tt1vgy7tSNk/video.htmlsi=_x-FF_j_Q2x8tUDp
Out here interacting for the rithms
The part about lighter bcg vs lighter buffer doesn't make sense to me. Spring preload has to do with the amount of compression percentage/ force required, not the weight of the thing compressing it. Removing a certain amount of weight from the bcg vs the buffer should have the same effect except for weight distribution overall.
@@MattiSchroderus think inertia equations
i'm glad it was demonetized. you should be ashamed of yourself for peddling overpriced junk like this
What are you current thought on the HM Defense bolt?
I run a VSeven Weapons titanium BCG in a 300BLK rifle.
4500 rounds later and aside from two polished streaks on the bottom, the damn thing looks new and runs like lightning!
I love titanium.
This comment is so beautiful to me lol
SOTAR’s effect has been real. Those carrier screws are becoming very popular
They are called OCKS screws and have been around for quite a while. Sionics as well as Forward Controls have been using them for years. SOTAR def reinforcing quality stuff.
The puns in this were made out of 100% try-tanium. Hopefully nobody extracted themselves over it, especially once we run out of stock. 😂 If you recoiled in horror over my puns then I'll finally act on the impulse to move my gas system out of the comments.
I'm a big fan of titanium carriers, run them in everything, even skeletonized ones. However some stuff here I don't really jive with.
- Carrier mass and buffer mass should be separated, they do different things. Buffer mass is needed, carrier mass is not.
- That whole spring preload thing makes no sense. Changing buffer mass does not change the spring preload.
- I don't see how a loose magazine helps at all, it'll simply nose down the cartridge leading to other issues.
You (Or Walker) should send the BCG’s to Chad at SOTAR for a review on the specs. I’m curious how gas efficient it is “On the inside.” If he made a video, I’m sure he would mention you which at the least would send you more viewers/future subscribers.
That's definitely a future possibility.
Yes let's make this happen.
Just do it!!! 😁
Blue tape on live-round mags… I have so many questions…
The dad jokes are on point though. 😂
I recently completed a Rifle build using this bolt carrier. It took forever to get, every time I would go to order, they would be out of stock. (not a big back order guy, if its not there, I'll just wait till it is.) My rifle uses a 17" radian builder set, 20" proof research carbon rifle length barrel, rifle speed gas controls, walker defense carrier with JP bolt (bolt recommended by proof for head spacing) a JP SCS (white spring, 3 stainless weights). This has become is my favorite just doinking around rifle. The rifle does not move, it feels like there's nearly no recoil impulse at all. I would use this as a duty or service setup, but as for just pure enjoyment with reliability in mind, it's delightful. Remember though, this is a premium item, which requires premium support to see the full benefits it has to offer. You don't simply drop in a Titanium BCG and reap the full reward for your money without spending more. Lower your BCG mass, Lower your buffer mass, then lower your spring weight, Tune with gas adjustment. Then and only then, are you truly enjoying everything it has to offer.
Love this, just ordered a blemished titanium BCG, let's see how well it works in my ar47.
Just got it, now to start testing
@@mhcaffey120 how it run brother ?
@@user-wl1fm4iw3t It's so nice I bought another one. Ran my adjustable gas block (Aero) down 5 clicks and she shoots very soft now.
Put it in my ar47. Just lowered my buffer weight to 1.5oz and about to do more testing.
So….at $370…..is this a solution to a non existing problem? 😊
Not a solution really, just a performance option for those that want it.
A spoiler or weight reduction kit isn’t needed to race, but it may help if you are pushing it.
Weight savings duude!
Had a BCG gas key improperly staked. Took me a while to figure out that was the reason for the malfunction. A good quality BCG is definitely worth the expense as long as the rest of the gun is properly adjusted for the upgrade.
upgrade where the explosions happen then upgrade the rest from there
Icon Defense’s new BCG solves that problem by using an integral gas key (machined as a single piece with the carrier, so no screws necessary lol)
That's why all my BCGs are from SOLGW
I thought I clicked on a BlackScoutSurvival vid for a minute... lol
Ejection w/o putting it in? I hate it when that happens.
"Preloading" 🤣🤣🤣
In the words of Michael Scott...
@@WalkerDefenseResearch:
"That's what she said."
@@Provocateur3 🤣🤣🤣
While I'm happy with service-grade ('poor'?) rifles, the innovation shown here is very interesting. I do appreciate how you emphasized that this is not a drop-in part, but a component for a custom gun.
It is a drop in part, aluminum BCGs are drop in ready.
what you need to do is use a lighter buffer as well so that you can make it even lower because of less mass
The other amazing thing about the Walker Nero compensator is not only the amazing reduction in recoil, and perhaps even more incredible, is the reduction of side blast concussion. I stood just a few feet from and perpendicular to it and couldn’t believe how little there was.
I like the inclusion of the Michiguns OCKS fasteners.. You ought to check out the Icon Defense BCG with an integral gas key and modified cam path..
The price point isn't bad consider its titanium and the difficulty that comes with machining titanium. The are certain brands that build standard bcgs for that money.
I've never had a problem with any P Mags, and with the exception of a few DD mags, that's all I use.
I mean, it's an interesting concept, but you can get a lightweight BCG for a third the price and it weighs the same.
Would love to try one of these bolt carrier groups
I think this would be an interesting addition to a Dissipator build.
But one bad thing about titanium is that it doesn't dissipate heat.
The one negative is the $360 price tag.
Pmags have a tendency to not work in all my rifles. All others work just fine.
Lost count of how many Pmags failed to perform in my M4.
I know Brownells and JP make low mass bolt carriers for the reason you elaborated on. I run Brownells' in my WWSD with an adjustible gas block to reduce weight and reduce recoil - once it's completely tweaked. I like it.
Unfortunately I kind of messed up when I selected the parts for my rifle. Ironically the titanium bcg I chose is essentially required because of the very short dwell time and small gas port on my rifle length gas 18" barrel. All in all, I still like the bcg... Light, but not ultra-light. Seems to be durable sofar with the coating and helps with a smoother recoil as a result.
Looks like a really great BCG! Might help me open up my superlative gas block to dump more gas out front. Thanks!
Try a lightweight buffer with the WDR bolt... can build one at 1.6 oz total weight with aluminum buffer weights from KAK. Makes the AR a whole new animal.
I don't understand how reducing buffer weight will affect spring preload ie force keeping carrier all the way forward and bolt in lock.
There are two schools of thought, less mass (Edgewater camp) and more mass (H2 Camp)
I understand the difference between 3 gun and roll in mud reliability first recoil secondary. I wish this video had explained why you want a lighter BCG and same reciprocating weights in a semi platform.
Titanium is a Witch spelled with a B to machine. Difficultly of manufacture let alone challenges by charging materials I feel under represented.
Yeah those BCG's are really sweet but they cost more than that receiver set and handguard together! Lol , I'm sure they're worth it Walker makes some great kit!
Those gas key screws look like Forward Controls Design OCKS.
Once you have had regular gas key screws come loose you tend to want something that is better; Never had those come loose. Also the grade of steel is much better than YFS standard gas key screws, which i have seen snapped and the allen heads stripped over on SOTAR's channel.
Those are the Forward Controls OCKS screws. They’re standard on all our carriers.
FCD bought out the company that made those screws? Interesting.
Those screws are Optimized Carrier Key Screw (OCKS) made at Michiguns..
Would it reduce the amount of gas you eat when shooting suppressed? Would it be noticeable?
Yes, very much so.
jack richlands music lol
Oh SHIT! The price isn't even that bad. I was dreading it being worse XD
love your videos
Those look nice! Do they meet the AR design package design specs? I can't count the # of BCG that when you spec them are way out of spec due to poor machining tolerances. The actual bolt itself is usually worse than the carrier.
Great Vid ,many Thanks !
Weight in the buffer or carrier is the same when talking about spring preload..The original AR15 used the Edgewater buffer which was basically a spring guide.The new buffer used to slow carrier velocity when they switched to ball powder with the M16 weighed 3 times more..The increased buffer weight slowed carrier velocity and prevented bolt bounce malfunctions on full auto, its impact on dwell time was negligible.. Reducing carrier weight or buffer weight has the same effect with carrier velocity, it does not matter which end of the the cycling mass is decreased or increased..It does matter if bolt bounce is the focus, not carrier velocity..
Wrong, springs do not experience inertia, only mass does.
Who said inertia? Watch the video, he was talking about spring preload (not inertia) which is the force that pushes the carrier back into battery..The more weight and force pushing the carrier, the more force to strip cartridges from the magazine and push grit out of the way..The more gas/weight/spring strength, the more recoil force.. ..Not a real hard concept..@@thompsonjerry3412
Carrier mass and buffer mass do not have the same effect on carrier velocity. The higher the amount of buffer mass in relation to carrier mass the more the buffer slows unlocking and the initial velocity of the carrier. The movement of the mass in the buffer acts as a damper delaying and slowing the initial movement of the carrier.
Yes they do, the combined weight of the carrier and buffer is the force being cycled, which effects carrier velocity..It matters zero where the weight is placed. Buffer weight effect on dwell time is insignificant as stated in the Black Rifle book and the test done by by silencerco..Port location and the cam cut in the carrier is what effects dwell time. This is why LMT re-cut the carrier cam slot to allow more dwell time before unlocking with their improved M4 rifle... Otherwise LMT would have just added weight..This is a common myth that buffer weight effects dwell time, its effect is negligible..@@snek9353
Is there a video using their inconel brake with the titanium bolt carrier? Seems that could be pretty awesome.
Kinda like waiting on the quadstack lower from Desert Tech!!!!
You can definitely see the bcg speed up with that light weight one
Why are you useing the intro music to Black Scout Survival
The sound of that rifle firing is so satisfying 😌 you could do an asmr video of just firing
So many people complained that their gun is too gassy. Doesn’t this help or solve the problem? Does this also increase muzzle velocity?
do you recommend it for competition ?
So, another way to reduce BCG weight is to reduce the weight in the buffer assembly. Probably not as expensive as a titanium BCG. Just saying.
Combine the lightweight BCG with a lightweight buffer.
Defense Depot is doing Ti BCGs for dpms g2 rifles. Seems like a very interesting way to go.
Ok, but what’s the advantage? Isn’t Ti more brittle? It’s the palm tree vs the live oak in the hurricane metaphor.
Vso notification squad
For a second i thought i was on Black Scout channel
Optics planet has 8 left in stock as of 10/18/23
Is titanium reliable? Like how many rounds should one of these or a rubber city armory titanium carrier last?
It looks like a nice setup. I just don't feel the need to change mine out.
This is awesome!!! Yeah, I’d build one around this Lol drop in it is not haha 😂
can you explain why you say that a skeletonized BCG is "DUMB" please
WDR doesn't put out a product that is not perfectly executed.
no thank you, but hey if ur happy 🎉 that’s what counts🇺🇸👍
Hmm. Ive broken a number of titanium firing pins in my full auto Reising, whereas the OG 1941 steel lasts longer. Makes me a bit hesitant of lug shear.
The bolt itself is steel. The carrier is titanium. The lugs on this BCG are still steel.
What is the price roughly compared to a standard good quality BCG?
Most of the high end ones are somewhere around $180-260, and this one is around $350. Cryptic's Mystic Black BCG is 260, and Sharp's XPB bolts are around 180-230, both being some top picks for premium BCG's with better quality steel and coatings.
@@boxlid214 Thank you!
@@doejohn8674 Cryptic's Mystic Black BCG and Sharp's XPB BCGs (both good products) are both steel underneath their coatings and weigh in at around 11+ oz. The carrier itself in our titanium BCG is grade 5 titanium beneath the DLC coating - the full BCG weighs only approx 7.8oz. It's best to compare among other titanium BCG's or low-mass BCG's. Titanium will always be more costly than steel and this is designed specifically to give you that ability to reduce your recoil, if used correctly.
@@WalkerDefenseResearchI think they were intentionally comparing apples to said oranges for frame of reference.
No one knows anything about other titanium BCGs so they compare price points against high end steel carriers. Apparently.
I Would like a re-do with a lighter buffer and muzzle velocity checked, against a regular BCG…
5:53 what about using a weaker spring ? 5:53
Bad Puns, brilliant 👏
My man, I love the content but what in the world is that rifle stance? You got more cheek contact than shoulder.
I am newer to new to building fun guns and my newest build I am working on something fun where the goal is super lightweight. Would it be a mistake to get a lightweight TI bcg and not pair it with an adjustable gas block?
@@Bane_Diesel it certainly would, the gas system needs to be finely tuned to account for the less mass moving, the less gas one wants to push the bolt home
Too much gas can cycle the system too quickly and mess with the cycling. You definitely want an adjustable gas block to finely tune the system into an optimal flow
8:34
what is its weight?
If reciprocating mass is such a factor in the recoil impulse, why does my .30 Weatherby bolt action kick the snot out of me so bad? 😮🤯👀🤔
You have 9lbs of reciprocating mass
Cool, an answer to a question nobody asked. Right.....
Its because BCG's made from carpenters steel fail?
If your gas port was drilled smaller then normal spec and your rifle/pistol was having a hard time running, that's the only time it should be worthwhile... otherwise you can be a dummy like me and get one and have it slam the shit out of your mid and carbine length guns.. IME.
Hey curtis, how did Walker address issues of titanium in terms of it being more brittle than steel, etc. what am I missing I’m kind of hesitant to think it would have a long lifespan
Assuming it is dimensionally correct, the carrier is not getting the same stress and shear forces that the bolt itself is getting.
@@woodrowcall3158what this guy said ^
@@VSO_Gun_Channel ahhh, so the bolt itself is still steel? it all makes more sense to me now. Pretty sure I want 1 or 3 ;-)
@@woodrowcall3158 This. The bolt itself is steel, and while the substrate of the carrier is grade 5 titanium, it is DLC coated to further help with longevity.
Question: im new to ar 15,s and i got a diamond back ar. I know its a budget rifle. Would i improve the running of the rifle by getting a bcg and charging handle from a well known / cost more company??. Thx
I'm going to go against a lot of Gucci AR lore for a second:
Your upper and lower are static chunks of aluminum. Assuming no manufacturing errors, your dirt cheap Anderson/PSA/Bear Creek Arsenal lower/upper receivers are just as good as the KAC/FN/LMT counterparts. They are static components, which are unchanging and unmoving. Their job is to handle the pressure of the controlled explosions of the cartridge firing and hold the moving parts in place. You can save a LOT of money on those two parts, which can then be spent on the actual important parts... the ones that move* (there's one exception to non-moving parts, we'll get there in a second, and I'm going to gloss over gas system because that's a needlessly over complicated debate that's an entire conversation in itself)
For me, the most important components in an AR, from most to least important, are: bolt carrier group (BCG), trigger, barrel, and buffer assembly. Here's why:
BCG: This is the engine that drives the AR. It takes the brunt of the force needed to cycle the action, extracts and loads rounds, and takes the most friction wear of any part in the system. This one part has the most points of failure; the extractor, the ejector, the cam pin hole, the locking lugs, the gas key, etc. If any of those fail, your AR is dead in the water. Plus, the cycling of the BCG wears on both itself AND your upper. Without proper lubrication, you reduce the tolerances that part and the upper. To that end, you need to consider the coating of the BCG in addition to regular lubrication/maintenance. Chrome lined is generally the gold standard for this reason, though there are other good options on the market. Be sure to do your research. If you want a great AR, start with a great BCG
Trigger group: This is your most important physical interface with your AR. Trigger feel has a huge impact on your overall experience with the system. A great AR with a shitty trigger is a bad experience. Pull weight and reset are crucial. A 10lbs trigger pull sucks, and a vague reset makes follow up shots harder. On top of that, a milspec trigger assembly is an open system, which is more susceptible to outside particulates. A good open trigger + sand/dirt/mud/other = a bad trigger. I'd suggest a drop-in cassette trigger, as that will naturally shield the assembly from outside influence (we'll come back to the other soon)
Barrel: probably self-explanatory. The barrel channels the expanding gasses onto the bullet. It also takes a lot of wear. A budget barrel will get you 5-10k rounds, a Gucci barrel will get you 20k+. Again, chrome lined is generally considered best, as it'll reduce wear. Twist is important as well. Generally, barrels on an AR are 1:7 (one bullet rotation per 7 inches of barrel travel) to 1:9 (one bullet rotation 9 inches of barrel travel). The smaller the second number, the "faster" the barrel. Generally speaking, faster barrels are better for heavier bullets. A 77 grain bullet will be more accurate out of a 1:7 than a 1:9, because the faster spin stabilizes the bullet better. If you plan to shoot heavier loads, get a faster barrel.
Buffer assembly: this is the spring/ weight that handles recoil and sends the BCG forward. This is another wear part, but less wearing than the BCG. What's really important is the return speed. Too fast (read: light), and you add felt recoil. Too slow, and you risk failure to feed malfunctions. You can see this in action in the video. At lower gas levels, the spring tension is too strong for the returning gas from the gas block to overcome and the rifle fails to cycle. That's simple enough to understand, right? BUT, there's another catch: in a standard buffet assembly, the spring and buffer weight are held in place by a tiny retaining pin. Remember the "other" from the trigger assembly? This retaining pin is the other. This pin stops the buffer assembly from moving forward, meaning it takes the brunt of that force. Shoot enough rounds, and that pin will eventually sheer off. That pin can get into an open trigger assembly and render it useless. The JP silent capture buffer removed the need for this pin, as the entire buffer assembly is one unit that cannot extend past the buffer tube. It's a small detail... until it isn't. If your trigger gets jammed up on that pin, your AR is just a paper weight. A captured buffer like the JP removes that failure point, with the added benefit of smoothing out recoil.
The charging handle is something nice to upgrade, but it's not something I'd change out first. Think about it, how often do you use that part? Once when you start shooting? You don't need it for reloads, that's what the bolt release paddle is there for. A good charging handle is a nice luxury, but it's just that... a luxury. If your operating an AR as the manual of arms is designed, you'll barely touch it. It's a part that good training can easily adapt to. If you train with a milspec charging handle, you'll get proficient with a milspec charging handle. A fancy charging handle won't make you any better at using the platform, it'll just make it *SLIGHTLY* easier. It won't make the platform more accurate or reliable, and it's barely a wear point.
Anyway, hope my long, rambling tirade helps! Enjoy all your future tinkering!
Sick beets, yo. 😂
try as I might finding out an undergassing issue on a .750 gassed 8 inch 300blk sbr is rediculous
The past two years I’d say that fixing 300blk rigs with
How does this compare to the Brownells lightweight bolt carrier groups? Brownells isn't titanium but is cutdown. I have one but have not shot it a lot or heard any reviews on it.
Ejection without putting it in.
“It didn’t put it in” 🤣😂🤣😂
A solution to a non existent problem
With less gas input to the system is the velocity of the bullet increased?
That should remain unchanged.
The gas that cycles the action is not the gas that pushes the bullet. The gas that cycles the action is... well, not *excess* gas, per se, but it is gas that is not needed to force the bullet out of the barrel.
In theory, a bolt action exerts more gas pressure onto the bullet compared to an auto loader, as none of the gas is recycled back into the gun to cycle the action. That means "100%" of the expanding gasses push on the bullet (not really true, because the gas stops acting on the bullet the second it leaves the barrel, and the "boom" you hear is that gas rapidly expanding into the atmosphere. A 100% efficient barrel would have no boom, just the crack of the bullet breaking the sound barrier). In that light, scavenging less gas from the barrel to cycle the action should result in more pressure imparted on the bullet.
All that to say, while scavenging a bit less gas to cycle the action, I'm sure the 2 fewer clicks on the adjustable gas block it takes to cycle the Ti BCG probably does not make an appreciable difference in bullet velocity compared to a milspec BCG/gas block.
Weight would be the biggest factor right? I bet you could shave off 20 grams or so with a titanium BCG...im just guessing here 😅
Awesome dad jokes
👍🏽
Curious, wouldn't a relatively equal hardness chamber/lugs be needed to prevent an excessive wear pattern on chamber lugs?
Yes. It's how all bearing and locking surfaces should interact. Otherwise one will wear and or peen.
The bolt is still steel. The carrier is titanium. The lugs on the bolt are still steel.
@@WalkerDefenseResearch ok. I kinda thought he said the opposite, that bolt was Ti. Thanks for clarifying.
Solution looking for a problem.
Lighter carriers, buffers and a tuned gas system is a solution to lessening perceived recoil for faster follow up shots..
@@hairydogstail great if you are shooting 3 gun, but an unreliable race gun is not the AR I want. My AR weighs 5 pounds with proven parts, did you notice he did not mention price?
Reliable as in a duty gun, then stick with a well made mill spec rifle that meets the TDP spec and tolerances set..The military put a lot of time and money perfecting the M-4A1 platform..Quality race guns are reliable set for the purpose of what they were intended for..An AR rifle with proven parts can have stacking tolerance issues that can make it unreliable..@@thompsonjerry3412
Bussin
SWEEEEEEEEET
Smoosh!!❤️🤣
If it's not offered in left-handed...................... ugh
Buwahahaha 😂😂😂 funny man!! Lol
The difference is poor fatigue properties, resulting in more failed bolts. Whoever the metallurgist is at Walker Defense needs to be replaced, and if they don't have a metallurgist, they need to hire a competent one.
Ummm what?
@@VSO_Gun_Channelc158 is far easier to work with and ensure that it's properly heat treated. Most places improperly heat treat 9310.
The difference is someone didn't take their meds today... or took too many 😅
9310 is fine and has been for years. The Nickel Boron is poo poo though.
@@VSO_Gun_ChannelI misread the title and had to leave the computer before finishing the video, I thought the bolt itself was titanium, that is my mistake and I apologize. That being said, a titanium carrier still has problems associated with it. The main issue is that titanium alloys does not withstand erosion as well as steels, so the sealing surfaces within the carrier will wear out faster than a standard bolt carrier.
Bro a full min long intro ....dam
Wait....do you have an adjustable gas block for this????? If not, you're going to break the thing.....GET ONE, because a titanium bcg should NOT cause the exaggerated recoil at 0:27 If backed up with an adjustable gas block that's properly tuned to it, you should feel barely ANY recoil.
Did you ride the short bus?
If you decrease the weight of a system, does perceived recoil increase or decrease?
What ever happened to the aluminum carriers that were sold a few years back? Eat themselves?
Interacting!
like the name
AR's can all benefit from an adjustable gas block, or as I have on my 6.5 grendel, an adjustable gas key.
Not all uppers are compatible with adjustable gas key BCGs like the one from Bootleg.
@@SuspiciousGanymede I use the SunDevil MFG A.D.I.G.s. adjustable gas key, it should fit any standard AR upper.
@@ronjenkins6674 never heard of that one. Always interesting to learn about new products for the AR market.
Sharp's also makes a version of their EPB that should fit any AR15/M4 receiver
Reddit advice 😂 moronical
Please stop!!😂
Have you put that into a binary system yet
🤦♂️
The intro was kind of gun porn
Comment section is a shitshow today. Lots of ruffled feathers Curt 🤣🤣🤣
Is Reddit down or something? The preening and self-assured pseudoexpertise made me think I was on the wrong platform.
@@woodrowcall3158 🤣🤣🤣 I don't know for sure. I don't use reddit either
@@mikewithers299 I use it as long as it takes to sell my excess accessories off, and then I promptly delete it again.
Noice