All the Total War Warhammer DLCs are on sale right now until the 28th with most 50% off so I wanted to do a tier list to help you guys decide if any of the DLCs are worth it. This took a long time to make as currently down with a powerful fever lol might be slow with replies sorry in advance!
I would suggest including the original pricing as well as sale pricing as that heavily influences how good each one is and how much value it adds. Obviously different per region but any main cirrency gives people an idea.
I think we should think about what the shadows of chance DLC needs in order to satisfy the pricetag personally as a Tzeentch fan I'd like to see some of those Tzaangors on disks, those with bows or wands. The legendary hero the twins as a playable minor faction leader would also be very welcome.
Plenty of the big WH3 content creators have already given good suggestions for it. I doubt they'll add anything to be honest, the same short sighted and greedy leadership that put that price tag on there are unlikely to have the sensibility.
2 additional lords I think is my base idea. It's arbitrary but "5 dollars per lord" might be the standard my brain sticks to from now on just to set a baseline. Honestly the biggest problem with SoC might just be the price tag vs value proposition with it. There isn't "That" much added to it and instead it feels like CA put out an over priced piece of content with too little content and then had an attitude about us not liking it.
My takeaway is that all best DLCs have race designs that make lower tier units useful: Tomb King has legions of free tier 1 units but limited higher quality ones. Chaos Dwarfs with their cheap labourers and Dwarf units are also similar. Vampire Pirates can resurrect low-mid tier units quick and fast to offer an endless stream of zombies, too. They did this wrong in Attila by upgrading every unit to rare, high tier units in the end. It felt really wrong and glad they did it better in WH.
I'm going to object about Queen & Crone. Alarielle was a great lord, one of the first to have a mixed roster (with wood elf units) and had an interesting campaign. Also Sisters of Avelorn are a HUGE unit. I always thought the High Elves got a much better end of the stick here.
same. alarielle is one of my fav legendary lords and i use sisters of avelorn constantly. meanwhile i played maybe one campaign with hellebron (her mechanic is pretty annoying), i don't even care to confederate her much, and i barely ever recruit any of her units when hydras and shades are much better.
Agreed. Alarielle is by far the better LL in that dlc. Sisters of Avelorn alone make it so. And she also has the great tree units. Yes, her mechanic isnt much at all, but she is a powerful spellcaster. Unlike Hellebron, whose skills are rather weaksauce, and she is never gonna be as cool or strong as the characters who have dragon mounts. And she looks just ugly, because she has no model for getting young with Death Night. But dark elf Death Night is one of the worst and most disliked mechanics in the game. Giving us some lame AI army which suicides itself uselessly. And the actual mechanics are very punishing, too. You dont get a lot of slaves early game, and youre forced to sink pretty much all of them into freakin Death Night to avoid penalties. Those DE units it added look cool, I also love them aesthetically, but are hot garbage in vanilla. Kharybdis is worse than Hydra, and all the witch themed units are absolute paper on a roster which is heavily dps focused as is.
As someone who loves the lizard men we actually are missing a good amount of table top units suprisingly and ya know thunder lizard would be amazing to see balanced no but fun yes
Hmm Shadows of Change down to £12.79 on other sites. Seems a more reasonable price for what you get but now don't want to support CA with their original pricing! Do own all other DLC though lol
I wholly intend to watch the rest of this, and I conpletely agree with the opinions on the WH1 DLCs, but that first 15 minutes almost came of like a sly "hey CA, more reworks please, that's where you have shined," and I'm here for it. Especially another Dwarf rework.
Stellaris has a custodian them and it has done absolute wonders for the game. That is with Paradox being a smaller scale studio. They have alone managed to pull the Stellaris up in terms of player counts. If warhammer has this kind of a team, they'll be unstoppable.
I disagree. Warhammer total war for its run got a lot better content, and used to be much better value for there money. That said paradox players are used to being milked. Actually paradox also increased there dlc price, as it wasn't high enough
One good thing I can say about the Blood DLC is that at least you don't have to buy 3 times separately, but then again it doesn't say much when you can buy DLC factions from the very first game and be able to play them in later games.
The Major issues of Shadows of Change with it's price: - Not enough new units. 2-3 additional units per faction would work much better, and they could always add some sort of additional variations (Tzaangors with big weapons, Akshina ambushers with dual weapons etc.) - Faction mechanics that are... meh. They could have done a little bit more. Changeling is fun, but should be a destroyable faction with fun mechanics for factions that need to deal with him - imagine Empire having to deal with growing Tzeentch cults with some sort of event/quest system. - Legendary Heroes for only Tzeentch (+another one from FreeLC) - they could have came up with two additional heroes for both Cathay and Kislev factions, because why not? - Lack of generic lords for Kislev and Tzeentch - not that it's 100% needed, but they could have come up with something, provided that they ignored all other fields. - No new things for "everyone". Maybe adding more artifacts/purple items like Sword of Khaine. They are including something like this with ToD, but I think they should generally add more artifacts obtainable by anyone in form of Quests/random events. Let us fiddle more with our lords inventory, making them much stronger in weird ways! Basicly, very lackluster DLC for this price. Could have been much more. I hope they will try to add more stuff with ToD - hopefully making another Empire lord playable as FLC with 2-3 accompanying units (Boris, cough cough)
In my completely unbiased opinion I would say that the Rise of the Tomb Kings DLC is the best DLC CA has created so far. There is nothing that could even dream of being compared to the majesty that is Settra the Imperishable. Because Settra Great King, the Imperishable, Khemrikhara, The Great King of Nehekhara, King of Kings, Opener of the Way, Wielder of the Divine Flame, Punisher of Nomads, The Great Unifier, Commander of the Golden Legion, Sacred of Appearance, Bringer of Light, Father of Hawks, Builder of Cities, Protector of the Two Worlds, Keeper of the Hours, Chosen of Ptra, High Steward of the Horizon, Sailor of the Great Vitae, Sentinel of the Two Realms, The Undisputed, Begetter of the Begat, Scourge of the Faithless, Carrion-feeder, First of the Charnel Valley, Rider of the Sacred Chariot, Vanquisher of Vermin, Champion of the Death Arena, Mighty Lion Of The Infinite Desert, Emperor Of The Shifting Sands, He Who Holds The Sceptre, Great Hawk Of The Heavens, Arch-Sultan of Atalan, Waker of the Hierotitan, Monarch of the Sky, Majestic Emperor of the Shifting Sands, Champion of the Desert Gods, Breaker of the Ogre Clans, Builder of the Great Pyramid, Terror of the Living, Master of the Never-Ending Horizon, Master of the Necropolises, Taker of Souls, Tyrant to the Foolish, Bearer of Ptra's Holy Blade, Scion of Usirian, Scion of Nehek, The Great, Chaser of Nightmares, Keeper of the Royal Herat, Founder of the Mortuary Cult, Banisher of the Grand Hierophant, High Lord Admiral of the Deathfleets, Guardian of the Charnal Pass, Tamer of the Liche King, Unliving Jackal Lord, Dismisser of the Warrior Queen, Charioteer of the Gods, He Who Does Not Serve, Slayer of Redditras, Scarab Purger, Favoured of Usirian, Player of the Great Game, Liberator of Life, Lord Sand, Wrangler of Scorpions, Emperor of the Dunes, Eternal Sovereign of the Khemri's Legions, Seneschal of the Great Sandy Desert, Curserer of the Living, Regent of the Eastern Mountains, Warden of the Eternal Necropolis, Herald of the all Heralds, Caller of the Bitter Wind, God-Tamer, Master of the Mortis River, Guardian of the Dead, Great Keeper of the Obelisks, Deacon of the Ash River, Belated of Wakers, General of the Mighty Frame, Summoner of Sandstorms, Master of all Necrotects, Prince of Dust, Tyrant of Araby, Purger of the Greenskin Breathers, Killer of the False God's Champions, Tyrant of the Gold Dunes, Golden Bone Lord, Avenger of the Dead, Carrion Master, Eternal Warden of Nehek's Lands, Breaker of Djaf's Bonds, and many, many more, Does Not Serve! Settra Rules!
I was actually considering Shadows of change for a minute, only because i really like Tzeentch. Went to check the store and see the Champions of Chaos DLC, thinking of how much fun i had in every campaign and every Lord. I dont think it will every be worth buying Shadows of change (for me) , that has 2 extra Lords wich i have no interest in playing. The old Lord Packs where at least cheap , always had at least 1 Legendary Lord i want to play.. with a potential pass on others.
Really not fun playing the changing in my opinion, in theory should be good with being able to zoom around the map, change to any other lord etc but literally no challenge whatsoever, the ai doesn’t attack you as your always hidden, I literally didn’t get attacked in whole play though
@@timknight2834 If you want challenge then the Changeling is not for you. But if you want to feel like a real servant of Tzeentch, than the Changeling is the way to go. Plotting to make the Empire you vassal? You can do that only as the Changeling. You can force wars between mighty empires without ever revealing yourself. This screams Tzeentch. I love Tzeentch and this campaign was one of the funniest ones.
Love your work, Nathan. Hopefully we can make it through this calamitous BS and see this game improve. If things don't improve, always remember that there's the Warhammer mod for Mount and Blade 2 Bannerlord.
The race packs from TWW2 and 3 really were well done, and I agree with their placements. Norsca being D tier is such a shame as it could have been great had they been given more attention and allowed to stand on their own instead of Chaoslite. Prophet and the Warlock is peak Skaven fanservice getting Ikit, doomrockets, ratling guns, Ikit's laboratory, all of it is hilarious and peak Skaven fanservice. Glad to see Warriors of Chaos at A tier. From the worst faction in TWW1 and 2, to being a powerhouse in 3, more so thanks to Champions of Chaos.
except for the blood pack, i have all the dlc up to the champions of chaos. i was considering getting chaos dwarfs, bcos they do seem unique, but i just don't care about dwarfs, so decided to wait for a big sale, and then we took the shadows of change to the knee. now i don't think i'll get any of the new dlcs, even if they were 50% off (which they aren't anyway). i think the most important lord packs for me were the queen and the crone, bcos i use sisters of avelorn constantly, and the prophet and the warlock, bcos i can't imagine not having rattling guns as skaven, plus cult of sotek is my fav lizardmen. but all in all, i have the best feelings about the late wh2 dlcs, but it might be bcos of the huge reworks that were coming alongside, the greenskin, wood elf and beastmen reworks were really things that turned the tables on those races for me - but while it's tied to dlc, it wasn't really the dlc content. same with the warriors of chaos - amazing rework, but you're getting it anyway. i wish they came back to putting a lot of effort into those free updates, but i don't see it happening again.
Oxyotl dlc was great. The couatls still look like beings from beyond the caos wastes though with those horrific beaks. At least we have mods to take care of that.
First of all, the Blood God DLC should of just been free and it isn't surprising that it was placed in F Tier. Also I love the Chaos factions so that rework that saved the Chaos Warriors was great to me even though I'd would of like to outright build outpost that go up to level 3 instead of it just being a 1 level only outpost (there is a mod that fixes that)
I agree with all on the list but some coments were a little off to me, specially "the heroes aren't that great" like handmaiden or the Master heroes, when now we rage because on the new DLC there's no new generic heroes/ords for each race.
As far as the tier lists go yi think it would be good to have 2 tier lists for a visual comparison. At launch vs now (after possible reworks of factions)
Chaos Dwarfs DLC is still more expensive than Tomb Kings/Vampire Coast at full price. If CA doesn't add a 4th legendary lord, there's no chance I'll buy this DLC. The real value of the Shadows of Change DLC is at most 15 euros. I won't support CA's idea of selling less content for a higher price and their stupid idea of adding unnecessary legendary heroes instead of legendary lords. Honestly, if CA were to sell 4 legendary lords + FLC legendary lord for 25 euros, I would probably buy it. 3 legendary lords for 25 euros (or 20 euros with a discount) is just a bad deal.
Shadow of change lore wise kinda fits tzeentch overall narrative u got plots and schemes against a variety of races and none of them really make sense but somewhere deep in his library tzeentch is rubbing his hands together laughing and everyone else is just wondering WTF is going on
Shadows of change is actually criminal tier. Another DLC sold (overpriced) on the strength of units like Akshinas. Akshina was a ap melee, ap range, stalking, 360 firing archer that was decent in melee at.... TIER 2? Steltsi are tier 3! At least you got an OP unit for letting CA bend you over the barrel. Right up until they directly swap the ap damage profiles, completely changing the purpose of the unit. Did anyone get some of their money back? Didn't think so. Imagine buying a Honda Civic, and a month later, the dealer shows up saying that the car is too good, and is too close to the quality/performance of a higher tier Honda Accord. They then take one of your wheels off, and stuff half a potato in your exhaust. Done.
I feel the need to note that you don't need the WoC DLC in order to access the WoC as a race. everyone that owns game 3 has access to the base WoC roster due to Be'lakor being FLC for all owners of game 3. the only things the original WoC DLC truly adds for game 3 players is Archaon, Kholek, and Sigvald it's kinda like the same situation as buying the Beastmen DLC after already owning Taurox except Taurox wasn't free for all game 3 players. the very fact that Be'lakor exists, already giving an undivided faction whilst also making the race's base roster free means that WoC just doesn't add much anymore. even the increase in start positions isn't much of an argument since Be'lakor can already use his portals to effectively have 3 possible starts (and with a fair bit more variety than the 3 WoC DLC lords all being stuck up in the northern Chaos Wastes). in terms of both LL count and units Champions of Chaos is just the better choice for DLC, there's also the added bonus that the CoC DLC benefits the monogod rosters too.
Nakai isn't for everyone but I wouldn't say his campaign isn't fun. You get non-stop action, just about zero empire management tedium, and he's perfectly capable all the way through the game at this point. It used to be a total bore back in WH2, but the revised start and the tweaks they've done makes it pretty decent now. And getting over to Yuan Bo, picking up the WOM boost, and then pushing down south to clear out the infestation of Lustria isn't that far with sea passages turned on.
Unpopular opinion but Nakai is actually my favorite lord in the game. I love horde factions, I love how free you are to move around and aren't bound to fight the exact same enemies, take the exact same path in oppositions to others factions. Want to get in Lustria ? Go for it. Wanna go fight Norsca ? Go for it. Wanna fight the Ogres ? You can. Hordes factions allow players to play a very customized campaign, and thats why I love them
Tomb kings are discount vampires. Weak undead units with shit economy and the army limit wich restricts you from building endless armies of chaff units like vampire can. They build up slow and boring. Chariots are so useless when sieging settlements. Gathering the books of nagash is a time consuming treasure hunt and gathering all doesnt give you a cinematic or anything not even a steam achievement. I really expected ANYTHING to happen after performing the final ritual as Arkhan. The constructs are fun but not worth playing Tomb Kings. I just build an outpost there. This might be a very emotional statement but I despise this faction so much because I was so disappointed. Best abkut their release was Repanse de Lyoness
Just get which ever one you think looks nice, I honestly believe all of them are really good. Two of my favorite campains Ive had was with the worse dlc. The first one with norsca playing as Wulfrik and the other with the Changeling at launch. Additionally, most Legendary lords I've only played post confederation so it can be worth getting some dlc just for that too.
So, short summary is unless you play chaos/destruction fractions it's better to spend money on something else. Like seriously, I remember one distinctive mechanic on the order side with elf batman.
Another salty thing is that, chaos dwarfs laborer is straight taken from TW2 incarnation of slaves of Dark Elves, that was changed for Tw3, cause of reasons or blanding/simplifying base races.
People who don't want to pay (or can't) 100$+ to unlock most or all DLCs should look for a DLC unlocker. While I think devs should be supported whenever possible, the stupid number and price of DLCs in strategy games are getting too ridiculous.
Thanks this is great! ... Steam Reviews have become absolutely useless. "Mixed" "Very Negative" "Very Negative" "Negative" ... Because no one is actually rating the game, they are just b*tching about the prices. So while I might agree with someone's rant about the price for the content... I do actually want to know if it's a good campaign or not for christ's sake.. I personally love these games and Immortal Empires is the funnest experience I've ever had in TW (I own every title except for Rome 1, Shogun 1, and Pharaoh, the latter of which I will get eventually I'm just having so much fun with Immortal Empires that it'll be a while). Buying some DLCs rn. Some things are overpriced in life. I got into warhammer the tabletop game/hobby way before I was into TW -- talk about overpriced. Skiing -- big hobby of mine, also very expensive. Bummer. But I do like to actually hear about the content so thanks
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges There's still tons of Empire units that can be added. Legendary Lords: - Elspeth von Draken (likely coming soon) - Boris Todbringer (likely coming soon) - Emil Valgier - Kurt Helborg - Rein Volkhard - Thyrus Gormann - Aldebrand Ludenhof - Leopold von Raukov - Marius Leitdorf - Valmir von Raukov Legendary Heroes: - Jubal Falk - Ludwig Schwarzhelm - Luthor Huss - Theodore Bruckner - Valten Lords: - Wizard Lords (all colleges) - Grand Master Heroes: - Master Engineer - Warrior Priest of Ulric - Gold wizard Units: - Celestial Hurricanum - Nuln Ironsides - Hunting Hounds of Middenland - Knights of the White Wolf - Knights Panther - Marienburg class Land Ship (though I'd prefer this to go to Dogs of War) - Reiksguard Foot with swords and shields - Reiksguard Foot with flails and shields - Sisters of Sigmar - Teutogen Guard - Hochland Long Rifles (normally only marksmen/sergeants could take them in the table top but those don't exist in WH3 so likely a separate unit). - Steam Tank Implacable - Steam Tank Von Zeppel That's everything that had a model that's still not in the game. There's a ton more if you want to use just lore or had rules but no model. Such as: Legendary Lords: - Theoderic Gausser - Wolfram Hertwig - Alberich Haupt-Anderssen - Helmut Feuerbach - Witch Hunter General Bernhardt van Hal Heroes: - Priests of Morr - Sailor-priests of Manann - Rhyan Priestesses - Priest of Taal - Verenean priests Units: - Archers with shields - Crossbows with shields - Halberdiers with shields - Free Company Militia with bows - Free Company Militia with crossbows - Free Company Militia with 2 hand weapons - Free Company Militia with sword and shield - Repeater Handgunners - Reiksguard Foot with halberds - Pikemen (showing my age here but Empire had them in early editions) - Warriors of Ulric - Wolf-kin Am I saying everything needs to be added? No, but the potential for a CoC style DLC and several after are clearly there.
I'm not as big a fan of the Chaos Dwarves. Not due to the faction which is great but the legendary lords. Having only 3 is ok but the 3 of them are far too similar and close really making replayability much lower. I would really like a small update making them slightly more different and maybe a free FLC character added somewhere further away so you can fight other factions.
the problem with champions of chaos is 99% of it was cut content that should have been there to begin with you are just paying for 4 lords and 1 unit as the rest are low effort reskins
i just wanna say i admire your abilty too hang in there ive lost faith ive uninstalled all my totalwar games i didn't mind chaos dwarfs but that last dlc i am done
You definitely have some unique takes. Or maybe I do. Long post, I know. Chaos DLC (before rework) was plenty fun later into Wh2 with SFO, or adding Chaos Dwarfs onto their roster. I always had a blast with modded Chaos. Alarielle is by far the better LL in that dlc. Sisters of Avelorn alone make it so. And she also has the great tree units. Yes, her mechanic isnt much at all, but she is a powerful spellcaster. Unlike Hellebron, whose skills are rather weaksauce, and she is never gonna be as cool or strong as the characters who have dragon mounts. And she looks just ugly, because she has no model for getting young with Death Night. But dark elf Death Night is one of the worst and most disliked mechanics in the game. Giving us some lame AI army which suicides itself uselessly. And the actual mechanics are very punishing, too. You dont get a lot of slaves early game, and youre forced to sink pretty much all of them into freakin Death Night to avoid penalties. Those DE units it added look cool, I also love them aesthetically, but are hot garbage in vanilla. Kharybdis is worse than Hydra, and all the witch themed units are absolute paper on a roster which is heavily dps focused as is. The Karak 8 Peaks DLC is also pretty rough if you ask me. Its not a race at all, first of all. Those 3 (with Queek) LL barely ever meet in campaign, have no interactions or quests against each other. Not as bad as Ghorst vs Volkmar, but still, aside from goblin fanatics, (even those I prefer as archers) I can do without all those units it added. Ghost dwarfs are powerful, I'll say that, too. Belegar is painful to play though, and so is Skarsnik for the most part. Theyre good challenge campaigns... once. Then youve already done it, so why would you ever wanna play them again, when all the other GS and Dwarf factions are just better than them. Malus vs Snikch I agree is wierd thematically, luckily both those lords rock. I'll say Malus mechanics are kinda also meh though. The way you get the unique missions from Tzarkan, is few and far between, and usually require you to go out of your way to complete any of them. Starting as a military ally of Malekith and getting dragged into wars is also painful. So is the abysmal replenishment. Waiting around a bunch of turns to replenish is never fun in any campaign. Aside from Poison Wind Mortars (and its RoR) I can also do without all those units it brought. Eshin lore is so bad most people forget it exists. People dont even use it for pvp, where it fits way more thematically. As for Dark elves, its so sad most of their dlc units just suck. Medusa always gets nuked on autoresolve, (like most medium-tier monsters) so even if you want them for some cool points youre getting punished for it. The one good addition to DE unit-wise was Rakarth's monster pen... where you can recruit from other factions, because your own stuff is so bad except the two vanilla monsters (Hydra and Black Dragon). People like to say Lizardmen are in a bad place... and theyre right. But as a DE fan, they also are. Most of the stuff they ever got was mid as heck, or just bad. And their slave mechanics were given to Chorfs, and replaced with a worse counterpart. They desperately need strong campaign mechanics, and FUN stuff as well. Murderous Prowess is awful, both in campaign and pvp. Theyre weaker than High Elves in every imaginable way, a race I constantly feel like Im being an underdog with. Their Lords are strong for the most part, but not necessarily fun... they have strong lategame units, sure... but so do all other factions. If I wouldnt like them thematically, I wouldnt be incentivized to play them at all. I personally would not put CoC into S tier, merely on the basis that you *need* it for Chaos to feel complete. Its kinda scummy that most of those units werent free additions. Its scummy that most of them are complete recolors. Its scummy that not even the Chosen are unique in terms of functionality, but theyre all heavy hitter metal plated dudes. Which we already had as base Chosen. I still fondly remember the 4 Chosen from Wh2 SFO. Khorne dual axes (which we got, yes.. but I think they were base game), the wierd TZ cultists who had soul stealer-like ability, Nurgle Scythe Chosen and Slaanesh fast greatswords. I have the same complaint on the colored Beastmen units. Theyre just reskins and function more or less the same as their base units. Tzaangors went from a unique magic missile unit in modded Wh2 to being overpowered, tanky infantry better than Bestigors, to be frank.
Nice Video but maybe you should change the Title to Warhammer 3 and not just Warhammer because it can mislead some people which are new to the franchise. Because some DLC's are trash in WH1/2 but good/amazing in WH3 because of the mentioned reworks. p.s: I don't agree with Nakai. He plays pretty good nowadays.
I honestly hate the Chaos Dwarfs.. Not because I don't like playing them but because i hate playing AGAINST them. They are so stupidly powerful it is just infuriating to fight them. The Chorfs are very few in number. Yet the AI manages to pump out ridiculous amounts out and uses barely any Greenskins. The artellery is absolute horse shit. They have stupid range, stupid damage, stupid health and most of them are unbreakable... Like what? The Lore of Hashut is also just broken it is (relatively) cheap and super powerful. The passive effect is straight up damage to everyone. Come again? And because just having one lore wouldn't be fun let's also give them fire, death and shadows.. You know.. For balance.. Meaning you fight armies with 6-8 Taurus/Bale Taurus and maybe a few Lamasu at the time. How is that fun please? How CA hasn't nerfed them yet is beyond me. Oh right.. They are DLC.. Last but not least... The fucking Taurus... Oh my Christ... The amounts of single entities the Chorf AI is spamming is just frustrating. And every caster and their mother also gets one! Because not only do they have good magic, lets
I am only needing latest DLC and honestly, it would be for me now (for "deal price" in Steam 19,99€ what is ridicilous price still). Have been strong supporter for this game serie and loved most DLC's and games but last one was.. just bad.
Champions of chaos. Still an excuse to NOT create actually original mechanics. I don't hate it, it brought a lot of units for a reasonable price. But the reskins are still reskins even though they are not bad... they could have been better, Chosen in general still have too many common points in their armour, which is a shame. And the mechanics of the 4 new factions that are still completely copied from the monogod mechanics. And we have 2 Slaaaneshi lords with the same mechanics to boot. It's a good DLC in a sense, but it's still super lazy and could have been much better. I'm still dumbfounded you place it at S tier purely because of the nostalgia it induces in you. At least you recognize its flaws... somewhat. Personally, if it means NOT having original mechanics and the so called "subculture" mechanic being supposedly the original mechanic (it's not, it's lazy "oh you have now LESS units than a regular faction, lol, that's a mechanic"), then that's absolutely terrible and I'm genuinely afraid some people at CA actually listen to you thinking that's okay. It is not. Actual new mechanics, or please just don't. Even if they are somewhat reskinned mechanics like Ostankya's, at least it is actually original. The Champion of chaos' mechanics are the most literal reskin of mechanics of all reskins, it's just plain bad. Thankfully, at least Shadows of Change showed that they would still create new factions with actually NEW mechanics, and very cool and original ones to boot. I hope they continue on THAT line and not on the Champions of Chaos' line. Which worries me, because Shadows of Change was quite bad on several of other aspects. If they end up thinking that new mechanics don't interest players any more and that they just need to do more Chaos of Champions factions with no new mechanics, I'm going to cry. Shadow of Change in F is too hard, it's technically not fair to the good and excellent stuff that was present in the DLC, The LL were absolutely great, their faction mechanics were good (except The Changeling's which was absolutely awesome). It's a pretty good DLC actually. Or it would if it was priced decently.... Just for the price, I agree that F rank is quite deserved, it's not really objective, but it's fair. Fuck CA and the Shadows of Change's price, I could never agree with that price. I really hope they change that for the next DLCs, that it comes back to being fair. Hell, for all I've said against Champions of Chaos, at least it was decently priced. Not Shadows of Change... F tier just for price, and that's fair. Apart from that, I basically agree with all of the remaining tier list.
i like the high elv part of queen and the crone and dislike the dark elv part the blood voyage feels so strange it is a ai controlled army that is not doing much woud be much better if it woud be a like khorne / slaanesh devotee army. shadow of change is the only dlc i do not own and will not buy it until ca adds more content to it and or reduce the price
quality of chaos dwarves was not there. they are a blast to play. but it is mostly rekinned mechanics. no real reworks with it. and the lords played exactly the same. no variation except a Stat or resource buff. felt exactly the same. at least in previous race packs in wh2. the lords varied a tiny bit. if they all had unique mechanics. even small ones. then I say, is barely worth its cost.
the ai is horrible after patch 4.1 the ai keeps setting up their army in a line like in an ambush. when I siege. they ball up moat units on one gate. with a line back into the base. completely ignoring placing on wall spots with a tower. even if it it right next to their start. and if I send in a flying unit. they all ball up. even artillery. hey, I am coming guys. make a big ball so I can magic burn u all. broke a lot of stuff. at least cavalry is working right now. we got pull out game.
Bro, don’t apologize. Shadows of change was abysmal. It is easily F tier. IMO, Jun Bo (spelling?) is a generic re-skin of the dragon twins. At best, he is nothing special, and that’s the best LL shadows of change has to offer. The Changeling is interesting, however, a campaign where you cannot lose does not interest me. Finally, even mentioning Mother Ostankya is more effort than CA put into her. What a dumpster fire. Good work on the tier list. Cheers!
SoC is not F tier but I understand why you put it there. I think the design and theming are bad and it is grossly overpriced but the content is still there, with a lot of cool units that are not reskins. For that alone I would put it in C. Before you guys comes at me, I did not buy it. Thank god creamAPI exist
How to tell peiople you don't care about Kislev without telling people. Yeah they got some content, parts not fully fleshed out, parts overpowered for no reason, parts that really shouldn't be there. And then there's all the content that could've been there (hag lore, just to name one).
@@LyricalDJ I did say the design and theming was bad and that it was overpriced for the content that was in there. The problem with Kislev is GW, they just won't do it justice except throwing ice and bears at them. There is only so much CA can go from there, I do agree about the hag lore though. Personally I hope someone one will make an Ungol mod
don't buy any WH3 DLCs until the game is actually fixed and working as designed... unless you want to support bad practices and shitty "industry standard"
Or buy DLCs as cheaply as possible and make sure they don't actually get the premium amount of profit they could get while you still get your toys. The sale is 50% off of you go to key websites during said sale you can get upto 80% off. Considering Valve and then GW takes their cuts they get next to nothing.
I never understood why ppl put tomb kings so up, its a slow and boring faction. Dont get me wrong, I like them, but every single friend that are not that much into warhammer or strategy would agree. Units are weak same as vampires, development is slow and you armies barely can 1v1 no one "if", you rely on spam all of these are not noob friendly hence why I would never put it that high or recommend it
All of the undead factions are pretty bland, without magic the Vampire Counts would be one of the worst factions in the game, and the TKs would be in a similar position without their constructs
@@Druchii you think the entire point of a faction should be a set of mid to late game units with a limited recruitment capacity? or blobbing up to spam healing magic? I'm sorry you find that enjoyable
Chaos Dwarfs S-Tier while Shadows of Change F-Tier? The content of the two are not that far apart so the DLC should be 1-2 Tiers apart at Max. But it gives more views if you rank Shadows of Change at F-Tier right? With all the hate around this DLC.
@@timknight2834 Changeling was more fun for me than Chaos Dwarfs as it offers a completely unique playstyle while the Chaos Dwarfs are a copy of the Dwarfs. Both DLC's have roughly the same content, why is one S-Tier and one F-Tier?
@@kidnamedfinger2625 First of all: I don't play to win, I play to immerse myself in a Fantasy World. And as the Changeling, you feel like a real servant of Tzeentch. You can play as you like as the Changeling: Conquer all, make specific factions your vassal, bring Chaos through cults etc. You cannot really do that with other factions. If you need the theoretically possibility of losing a campaign (which is very hard, I never lost a campaign) to have fun with a game, than that's ok. I have fun immersing myself. The game itself offers no challenge, you have to set your own goals to do that. As for the content: Changeling provides you with three unique lords and their respective playstyles. Chaos Dwarfs provides you also with three lords, but they play identically. Once you play one of them, you know all three. The amount of units that came with the Chaos Dwarfs are almost all reskins of existing units, except for a few. How ist that new content? Shadows of Change provides more unique units than Chaos Dwarfs. And I would say that the mechanics of the Chaos Dwarfs are not new, most of them are again reskins of existing mechanics. So I see these two DLC's roughly in the same tier, objectively. Most people cannot be objective, best example is this video.
@@kidnamedfinger2625 You accuse me of not being objective, while saying that a campaign without a challenge is dull and offers no reward... which is a subjective opinion. If you have no fun with a campaign where you cannot lose (again it is HARD to ever lose a campaign), than that's ok, but that doesn't mean that there cannot be a challenge or a reward. Both DLC's have most of their mechanics copied and reskinned, doesn't matter how you put it. I have no problem with that, why do you? I find it only stupid to put these two DLC so far apart from each other in a list.
@@LyricalDJ 1) Yeah , this is my opinion. 2) I have a pretty well formed opinion on everyone but the CD but I wasn't going to go into a rant that I didn't thought anyone would be willing to read
How can you rank champions of chaos anything but F tier. It was so unbalanced and overpowered I refused to buy it. You dont pay to win DLC in games.. I guess if you suck and need help to win campaigns this DLC is great. Chaos Dwarfs was a good DLC for example.
All the Total War Warhammer DLCs are on sale right now until the 28th with most 50% off so I wanted to do a tier list to help you guys decide if any of the DLCs are worth it. This took a long time to make as currently down with a powerful fever lol might be slow with replies sorry in advance!
Appreciate the insight on the DLCs man!
Is the shadows of change also on sale? Don’t even know if I’ll get it even with the deal…
@@headcrabo..230120% off i believe
I would suggest including the original pricing as well as sale pricing as that heavily influences how good each one is and how much value it adds. Obviously different per region but any main cirrency gives people an idea.
You should make next a DLC grudge list, where we list the worst problems and backlash every DLC brought
I think we should think about what the shadows of chance DLC needs in order to satisfy the pricetag
personally as a Tzeentch fan I'd like to see some of those Tzaangors on disks, those with bows or wands. The legendary hero the twins as a playable minor faction leader would also be very welcome.
Is the additional content for Shadows of Change confirmed?
I'd rather replay tomb kings, or vampire coast. By far the best, also ikit claw.
Plenty of the big WH3 content creators have already given good suggestions for it. I doubt they'll add anything to be honest, the same short sighted and greedy leadership that put that price tag on there are unlikely to have the sensibility.
2 additional lords I think is my base idea. It's arbitrary but "5 dollars per lord" might be the standard my brain sticks to from now on just to set a baseline. Honestly the biggest problem with SoC might just be the price tag vs value proposition with it. There isn't "That" much added to it and instead it feels like CA put out an over priced piece of content with too little content and then had an attitude about us not liking it.
@@ithiusdomino A generic Hag Mother (lord) for Kislev and some Units and also 1 additional generic hero for Cathay.
Me, who already owns every dlc except shadows of change: “hmmm interesting”
My takeaway is that all best DLCs have race designs that make lower tier units useful: Tomb King has legions of free tier 1 units but limited higher quality ones. Chaos Dwarfs with their cheap labourers and Dwarf units are also similar. Vampire Pirates can resurrect low-mid tier units quick and fast to offer an endless stream of zombies, too.
They did this wrong in Attila by upgrading every unit to rare, high tier units in the end. It felt really wrong and glad they did it better in WH.
I'm going to object about Queen & Crone. Alarielle was a great lord, one of the first to have a mixed roster (with wood elf units) and had an interesting campaign. Also Sisters of Avelorn are a HUGE unit. I always thought the High Elves got a much better end of the stick here.
same. alarielle is one of my fav legendary lords and i use sisters of avelorn constantly. meanwhile i played maybe one campaign with hellebron (her mechanic is pretty annoying), i don't even care to confederate her much, and i barely ever recruit any of her units when hydras and shades are much better.
Completely agree here.
At least B teir IMO
Agreed. Alarielle is by far the better LL in that dlc. Sisters of Avelorn alone make it so. And she also has the great tree units. Yes, her mechanic isnt much at all, but she is a powerful spellcaster.
Unlike Hellebron, whose skills are rather weaksauce, and she is never gonna be as cool or strong as the characters who have dragon mounts. And she looks just ugly, because she has no model for getting young with Death Night. But dark elf Death Night is one of the worst and most disliked mechanics in the game. Giving us some lame AI army which suicides itself uselessly. And the actual mechanics are very punishing, too. You dont get a lot of slaves early game, and youre forced to sink pretty much all of them into freakin Death Night to avoid penalties.
Those DE units it added look cool, I also love them aesthetically, but are hot garbage in vanilla. Kharybdis is worse than Hydra, and all the witch themed units are absolute paper on a roster which is heavily dps focused as is.
Also enjoy Alarielle.
When I saw the title, I could tell this will be a long one. I'm sure TheGreatBookofGrudges has many things to say about various dlcs.
Lizardmen have all the content they need. Just a rework and i think this faction is pretty much done
As someone who loves the lizard men we actually are missing a good amount of table top units suprisingly and ya know thunder lizard would be amazing to see balanced no but fun yes
@@idiotgaming6376 fair. Would love to see it
Hmm Shadows of Change down to £12.79 on other sites. Seems a more reasonable price for what you get but now don't want to support CA with their original pricing! Do own all other DLC though lol
I wholly intend to watch the rest of this, and I conpletely agree with the opinions on the WH1 DLCs, but that first 15 minutes almost came of like a sly "hey CA, more reworks please, that's where you have shined," and I'm here for it. Especially another Dwarf rework.
Stellaris has a custodian them and it has done absolute wonders for the game. That is with Paradox being a smaller scale studio. They have alone managed to pull the Stellaris up in terms of player counts. If warhammer has this kind of a team, they'll be unstoppable.
I disagree. Warhammer total war for its run got a lot better content, and used to be much better value for there money. That said paradox players are used to being milked. Actually paradox also increased there dlc price, as it wasn't high enough
Agree, the paradox team for Stellaris is incredible
One good thing I can say about the Blood DLC is that at least you don't have to buy 3 times separately, but then again it doesn't say much when you can buy DLC factions from the very first game and be able to play them in later games.
The Major issues of Shadows of Change with it's price:
- Not enough new units. 2-3 additional units per faction would work much better, and they could always add some sort of additional variations (Tzaangors with big weapons, Akshina ambushers with dual weapons etc.)
- Faction mechanics that are... meh. They could have done a little bit more. Changeling is fun, but should be a destroyable faction with fun mechanics for factions that need to deal with him - imagine Empire having to deal with growing Tzeentch cults with some sort of event/quest system.
- Legendary Heroes for only Tzeentch (+another one from FreeLC) - they could have came up with two additional heroes for both Cathay and Kislev factions, because why not?
- Lack of generic lords for Kislev and Tzeentch - not that it's 100% needed, but they could have come up with something, provided that they ignored all other fields.
- No new things for "everyone". Maybe adding more artifacts/purple items like Sword of Khaine. They are including something like this with ToD, but I think they should generally add more artifacts obtainable by anyone in form of Quests/random events. Let us fiddle more with our lords inventory, making them much stronger in weird ways!
Basicly, very lackluster DLC for this price. Could have been much more. I hope they will try to add more stuff with ToD - hopefully making another Empire lord playable as FLC with 2-3 accompanying units (Boris, cough cough)
I think the reason why thzeench got the hero is because it's potentially there last dlc as they don't have any more uints from the tabletop to add
In my completely unbiased opinion I would say that the Rise of the Tomb Kings DLC is the best DLC CA has created so far. There is nothing that could even dream of being compared to the majesty that is Settra the Imperishable. Because Settra Great King, the Imperishable, Khemrikhara, The Great King of Nehekhara, King of Kings, Opener of the Way, Wielder of the Divine Flame, Punisher of Nomads, The Great Unifier, Commander of the Golden Legion, Sacred of Appearance, Bringer of Light, Father of Hawks, Builder of Cities, Protector of the Two Worlds, Keeper of the Hours, Chosen of Ptra, High Steward of the Horizon, Sailor of the Great Vitae, Sentinel of the Two Realms, The Undisputed, Begetter of the Begat, Scourge of the Faithless, Carrion-feeder, First of the Charnel Valley, Rider of the Sacred Chariot, Vanquisher of Vermin, Champion of the Death Arena, Mighty Lion Of The Infinite Desert, Emperor Of The Shifting Sands, He Who Holds The Sceptre, Great Hawk Of The Heavens, Arch-Sultan of Atalan, Waker of the Hierotitan, Monarch of the Sky, Majestic Emperor of the Shifting Sands, Champion of the Desert Gods, Breaker of the Ogre Clans, Builder of the Great Pyramid, Terror of the Living, Master of the Never-Ending Horizon, Master of the Necropolises, Taker of Souls, Tyrant to the Foolish, Bearer of Ptra's Holy Blade, Scion of Usirian, Scion of Nehek, The Great, Chaser of Nightmares, Keeper of the Royal Herat, Founder of the Mortuary Cult, Banisher of the Grand Hierophant, High Lord Admiral of the Deathfleets, Guardian of the Charnal Pass, Tamer of the Liche King, Unliving Jackal Lord, Dismisser of the Warrior Queen, Charioteer of the Gods, He Who Does Not Serve, Slayer of Redditras, Scarab Purger, Favoured of Usirian, Player of the Great Game, Liberator of Life, Lord Sand, Wrangler of Scorpions, Emperor of the Dunes, Eternal Sovereign of the Khemri's Legions, Seneschal of the Great Sandy Desert, Curserer of the Living, Regent of the Eastern Mountains, Warden of the Eternal Necropolis, Herald of the all Heralds, Caller of the Bitter Wind, God-Tamer, Master of the Mortis River, Guardian of the Dead, Great Keeper of the Obelisks, Deacon of the Ash River, Belated of Wakers, General of the Mighty Frame, Summoner of Sandstorms, Master of all Necrotects, Prince of Dust, Tyrant of Araby, Purger of the Greenskin Breathers, Killer of the False God's Champions, Tyrant of the Gold Dunes, Golden Bone Lord, Avenger of the Dead, Carrion Master, Eternal Warden of Nehek's Lands, Breaker of Djaf's Bonds, and many, many more, Does Not Serve! Settra Rules!
I was actually considering Shadows of change for a minute, only because i really like Tzeentch. Went to check the store and see the Champions of Chaos DLC, thinking of how much fun i had in every campaign and every Lord. I dont think it will every be worth buying Shadows of change (for me) , that has 2 extra Lords wich i have no interest in playing. The old Lord Packs where at least cheap , always had at least 1 Legendary Lord i want to play.. with a potential pass on others.
Really not fun playing the changing in my opinion, in theory should be good with being able to zoom around the map, change to any other lord etc but literally no challenge whatsoever, the ai doesn’t attack you as your always hidden, I literally didn’t get attacked in whole play though
@@timknight2834 If you want challenge then the Changeling is not for you. But if you want to feel like a real servant of Tzeentch, than the Changeling is the way to go. Plotting to make the Empire you vassal? You can do that only as the Changeling. You can force wars between mighty empires without ever revealing yourself. This screams Tzeentch. I love Tzeentch and this campaign was one of the funniest ones.
I pretty much agree. My top rankings would be 1. Chaos dwarfs, 2. Vampire coast, 3. Champions of Chaos, 4. Tomb kings.
crone and the queen are one of the best lord dlcs tho cant imagine playing highelves without sisters of avelorn
Love
You need to do a ranking on all the DLC/faction cinematic trailers.
appreciate the ranking, hope you feel better man.
Turns out its pneumonia but I have the proper medication now so will be in the mend soon :)
Coutning in Charlemagnes was a fun time to be on the internet
Well thank you!! I find my campaign pretty decent as well :) Glad to agree with you today! 🤝🤝🤝
Love your work, Nathan. Hopefully we can make it through this calamitous BS and see this game improve. If things don't improve, always remember that there's the Warhammer mod for Mount and Blade 2 Bannerlord.
Much love dude :) I have hope and if not Old World is coming I have big plans for it :)
The race packs from TWW2 and 3 really were well done, and I agree with their placements. Norsca being D tier is such a shame as it could have been great had they been given more attention and allowed to stand on their own instead of Chaoslite.
Prophet and the Warlock is peak Skaven fanservice getting Ikit, doomrockets, ratling guns, Ikit's laboratory, all of it is hilarious and peak Skaven fanservice.
Glad to see Warriors of Chaos at A tier. From the worst faction in TWW1 and 2, to being a powerhouse in 3, more so thanks to Champions of Chaos.
except for the blood pack, i have all the dlc up to the champions of chaos. i was considering getting chaos dwarfs, bcos they do seem unique, but i just don't care about dwarfs, so decided to wait for a big sale, and then we took the shadows of change to the knee. now i don't think i'll get any of the new dlcs, even if they were 50% off (which they aren't anyway).
i think the most important lord packs for me were the queen and the crone, bcos i use sisters of avelorn constantly, and the prophet and the warlock, bcos i can't imagine not having rattling guns as skaven, plus cult of sotek is my fav lizardmen. but all in all, i have the best feelings about the late wh2 dlcs, but it might be bcos of the huge reworks that were coming alongside, the greenskin, wood elf and beastmen reworks were really things that turned the tables on those races for me - but while it's tied to dlc, it wasn't really the dlc content. same with the warriors of chaos - amazing rework, but you're getting it anyway. i wish they came back to putting a lot of effort into those free updates, but i don't see it happening again.
costin uploaded his tier list the same day and they got some big differences. He put vampire coast as F tier and tomb kings in C tier.
Excellent video! And I had to watch this thing as soon as it came out!
Oxyotl dlc was great. The couatls still look like beings from beyond the caos wastes though with those horrific beaks. At least we have mods to take care of that.
First of all, the Blood God DLC should of just been free and it isn't surprising that it was placed in F Tier. Also I love the Chaos factions so that rework that saved the Chaos Warriors was great to me even though I'd would of like to outright build outpost that go up to level 3 instead of it just being a 1 level only outpost (there is a mod that fixes that)
get well soon
I agree with all on the list but some coments were a little off to me, specially "the heroes aren't that great" like handmaiden or the Master heroes, when now we rage because on the new DLC there's no new generic heroes/ords for each race.
Nice to see an analysis video again!
There's a weird bug with the latest beastmen dlc. The Tzaangors and Avatar of Beasts are available, but I'm not seeing the Things in the Woods.
I am waiting for Winter sale...will get something for my Warhammer 2 ;) I am glad didn't have to play that before now I have a great time :))
As far as the tier lists go yi think it would be good to have 2 tier lists for a visual comparison. At launch vs now (after possible reworks of factions)
-20% is nothing to the insane price of chaos dwarfs and shadows of shit
Chaos Dwarfs DLC is still more expensive than Tomb Kings/Vampire Coast at full price. If CA doesn't add a 4th legendary lord, there's no chance I'll buy this DLC. The real value of the Shadows of Change DLC is at most 15 euros.
I won't support CA's idea of selling less content for a higher price and their stupid idea of adding unnecessary legendary heroes instead of legendary lords. Honestly, if CA were to sell 4 legendary lords + FLC legendary lord for 25 euros, I would probably buy it. 3 legendary lords for 25 euros (or 20 euros with a discount) is just a bad deal.
S-tier list
Shadow of change lore wise kinda fits tzeentch overall narrative u got plots and schemes against a variety of races and none of them really make sense but somewhere deep in his library tzeentch is rubbing his hands together laughing and everyone else is just wondering WTF is going on
Shadows of change is actually criminal tier. Another DLC sold (overpriced) on the strength of units like Akshinas. Akshina was a ap melee, ap range, stalking, 360 firing archer that was decent in melee at.... TIER 2? Steltsi are tier 3!
At least you got an OP unit for letting CA bend you over the barrel. Right up until they directly swap the ap damage profiles, completely changing the purpose of the unit. Did anyone get some of their money back? Didn't think so.
Imagine buying a Honda Civic, and a month later, the dealer shows up saying that the car is too good, and is too close to the quality/performance of a higher tier Honda Accord. They then take one of your wheels off, and stuff half a potato in your exhaust. Done.
Bro High Elves were the clear winners in the queen and crone dlc. Sisters are one of the best units of the game and Handmaidens are also good.
I feel the need to note that you don't need the WoC DLC in order to access the WoC as a race. everyone that owns game 3 has access to the base WoC roster due to Be'lakor being FLC for all owners of game 3. the only things the original WoC DLC truly adds for game 3 players is Archaon, Kholek, and Sigvald
it's kinda like the same situation as buying the Beastmen DLC after already owning Taurox except Taurox wasn't free for all game 3 players.
the very fact that Be'lakor exists, already giving an undivided faction whilst also making the race's base roster free means that WoC just doesn't add much anymore.
even the increase in start positions isn't much of an argument since Be'lakor can already use his portals to effectively have 3 possible starts (and with a fair bit more variety than the 3 WoC DLC lords all being stuck up in the northern Chaos Wastes).
in terms of both LL count and units Champions of Chaos is just the better choice for DLC, there's also the added bonus that the CoC DLC benefits the monogod rosters too.
Saw you on HBYY channel. good shit.
Turning the Vampire Coast into a banging DLC is proof that WH2 just could not miss.
Nakai isn't for everyone but I wouldn't say his campaign isn't fun. You get non-stop action, just about zero empire management tedium, and he's perfectly capable all the way through the game at this point. It used to be a total bore back in WH2, but the revised start and the tweaks they've done makes it pretty decent now. And getting over to Yuan Bo, picking up the WOM boost, and then pushing down south to clear out the infestation of Lustria isn't that far with sea passages turned on.
Unpopular opinion but Nakai is actually my favorite lord in the game. I love horde factions, I love how free you are to move around and aren't bound to fight the exact same enemies, take the exact same path in oppositions to others factions.
Want to get in Lustria ? Go for it. Wanna go fight Norsca ? Go for it. Wanna fight the Ogres ? You can.
Hordes factions allow players to play a very customized campaign, and thats why I love them
I got the Blood for the Blood God DLC on a reseller site for 50 cents. Only reason I got it.
Tomb kings are discount vampires. Weak undead units with shit economy and the army limit wich restricts you from building endless armies of chaff units like vampire can. They build up slow and boring. Chariots are so useless when sieging settlements. Gathering the books of nagash is a time consuming treasure hunt and gathering all doesnt give you a cinematic or anything not even a steam achievement. I really expected ANYTHING to happen after performing the final ritual as Arkhan. The constructs are fun but not worth playing Tomb Kings. I just build an outpost there.
This might be a very emotional statement but I despise this faction so much because I was so disappointed. Best abkut their release was Repanse de Lyoness
Just get which ever one you think looks nice, I honestly believe all of them are really good. Two of my favorite campains Ive had was with the worse dlc. The first one with norsca playing as Wulfrik and the other with the Changeling at launch. Additionally, most Legendary lords I've only played post confederation so it can be worth getting some dlc just for that too.
Chaos dwarves is my favorite race out of all the games and dlc.
So, short summary is unless you play chaos/destruction fractions it's better to spend money on something else. Like seriously, I remember one distinctive mechanic on the order side with elf batman.
Another salty thing is that, chaos dwarfs laborer is straight taken from TW2 incarnation of slaves of Dark Elves, that was changed for Tw3, cause of reasons or blanding/simplifying base races.
Was it you who was saying they were going to add more stuff to SoC? I hope that's true, but even if they do it's likely still going to be overpriced.
People who don't want to pay (or can't) 100$+ to unlock most or all DLCs should look for a DLC unlocker.
While I think devs should be supported whenever possible, the stupid number and price of DLCs in strategy games are getting too ridiculous.
Thanks this is great! ... Steam Reviews have become absolutely useless. "Mixed" "Very Negative" "Very Negative" "Negative" ... Because no one is actually rating the game, they are just b*tching about the prices. So while I might agree with someone's rant about the price for the content... I do actually want to know if it's a good campaign or not for christ's sake..
I personally love these games and Immortal Empires is the funnest experience I've ever had in TW (I own every title except for Rome 1, Shogun 1, and Pharaoh, the latter of which I will get eventually I'm just having so much fun with Immortal Empires that it'll be a while). Buying some DLCs rn. Some things are overpriced in life. I got into warhammer the tabletop game/hobby way before I was into TW -- talk about overpriced. Skiing -- big hobby of mine, also very expensive. Bummer. But I do like to actually hear about the content so thanks
So, this is akk based on TWH 3 or ... ?
Nakai dlc is S tier in my heart but I understand.
CA, Plz. Get your shit together.
You skipped people wanting an Empire CoC style DLC.
I thought of it however unless we get Old World content in here we'll be lacking stuff
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges There's still tons of Empire units that can be added.
Legendary Lords:
- Elspeth von Draken (likely coming soon)
- Boris Todbringer (likely coming soon)
- Emil Valgier
- Kurt Helborg
- Rein Volkhard
- Thyrus Gormann
- Aldebrand Ludenhof
- Leopold von Raukov
- Marius Leitdorf
- Valmir von Raukov
Legendary Heroes:
- Jubal Falk
- Ludwig Schwarzhelm
- Luthor Huss
- Theodore Bruckner
- Valten
Lords:
- Wizard Lords (all colleges)
- Grand Master
Heroes:
- Master Engineer
- Warrior Priest of Ulric
- Gold wizard
Units:
- Celestial Hurricanum
- Nuln Ironsides
- Hunting Hounds of Middenland
- Knights of the White Wolf
- Knights Panther
- Marienburg class Land Ship (though I'd prefer this to go to Dogs of War)
- Reiksguard Foot with swords and shields
- Reiksguard Foot with flails and shields
- Sisters of Sigmar
- Teutogen Guard
- Hochland Long Rifles (normally only marksmen/sergeants could take them in the table top but those don't exist in WH3 so likely a separate unit).
- Steam Tank Implacable
- Steam Tank Von Zeppel
That's everything that had a model that's still not in the game. There's a ton more if you want to use just lore or had rules but no model. Such as:
Legendary Lords:
- Theoderic Gausser
- Wolfram Hertwig
- Alberich Haupt-Anderssen
- Helmut Feuerbach
- Witch Hunter General Bernhardt van Hal
Heroes:
- Priests of Morr
- Sailor-priests of Manann
- Rhyan Priestesses
- Priest of Taal
- Verenean priests
Units:
- Archers with shields
- Crossbows with shields
- Halberdiers with shields
- Free Company Militia with bows
- Free Company Militia with crossbows
- Free Company Militia with 2 hand weapons
- Free Company Militia with sword and shield
- Repeater Handgunners
- Reiksguard Foot with halberds
- Pikemen (showing my age here but Empire had them in early editions)
- Warriors of Ulric
- Wolf-kin
Am I saying everything needs to be added? No, but the potential for a CoC style DLC and several after are clearly there.
I'm not as big a fan of the Chaos Dwarves. Not due to the faction which is great but the legendary lords. Having only 3 is ok but the 3 of them are far too similar and close really making replayability much lower. I would really like a small update making them slightly more different and maybe a free FLC character added somewhere further away so you can fight other factions.
the problem with champions of chaos is 99% of it was cut content that should have been there to begin with you are just paying for 4 lords and 1 unit as the rest are low effort reskins
i just wanna say i admire your abilty too hang in there ive lost faith ive uninstalled all my totalwar games i didn't mind chaos dwarfs but that last dlc i am done
Looks like you dont believe in Thrones in December 😢
Been saying this since SoC dropped!
Cool, thanks, I should try TK
Warrior of chaos gives nothing just the 3 legendary lord,(just get Champion of chaos)
CoC is not S tier, the majority of the models reuses and colour swaps 7 year old assets.
grim and grave deserves an S edgelord necrmancer and vulkmar free company stacks make there factions fun
You definitely have some unique takes. Or maybe I do. Long post, I know.
Chaos DLC (before rework) was plenty fun later into Wh2 with SFO, or adding Chaos Dwarfs onto their roster. I always had a blast with modded Chaos.
Alarielle is by far the better LL in that dlc. Sisters of Avelorn alone make it so. And she also has the great tree units. Yes, her mechanic isnt much at all, but she is a powerful spellcaster. Unlike Hellebron, whose skills are rather weaksauce, and she is never gonna be as cool or strong as the characters who have dragon mounts. And she looks just ugly, because she has no model for getting young with Death Night. But dark elf Death Night is one of the worst and most disliked mechanics in the game. Giving us some lame AI army which suicides itself uselessly. And the actual mechanics are very punishing, too. You dont get a lot of slaves early game, and youre forced to sink pretty much all of them into freakin Death Night to avoid penalties. Those DE units it added look cool, I also love them aesthetically, but are hot garbage in vanilla. Kharybdis is worse than Hydra, and all the witch themed units are absolute paper on a roster which is heavily dps focused as is.
The Karak 8 Peaks DLC is also pretty rough if you ask me. Its not a race at all, first of all. Those 3 (with Queek) LL barely ever meet in campaign, have no interactions or quests against each other. Not as bad as Ghorst vs Volkmar, but still, aside from goblin fanatics, (even those I prefer as archers) I can do without all those units it added. Ghost dwarfs are powerful, I'll say that, too. Belegar is painful to play though, and so is Skarsnik for the most part. Theyre good challenge campaigns... once. Then youve already done it, so why would you ever wanna play them again, when all the other GS and Dwarf factions are just better than them.
Malus vs Snikch I agree is wierd thematically, luckily both those lords rock. I'll say Malus mechanics are kinda also meh though. The way you get the unique missions from Tzarkan, is few and far between, and usually require you to go out of your way to complete any of them. Starting as a military ally of Malekith and getting dragged into wars is also painful. So is the abysmal replenishment. Waiting around a bunch of turns to replenish is never fun in any campaign. Aside from Poison Wind Mortars (and its RoR) I can also do without all those units it brought. Eshin lore is so bad most people forget it exists. People dont even use it for pvp, where it fits way more thematically. As for Dark elves, its so sad most of their dlc units just suck. Medusa always gets nuked on autoresolve, (like most medium-tier monsters) so even if you want them for some cool points youre getting punished for it. The one good addition to DE unit-wise was Rakarth's monster pen... where you can recruit from other factions, because your own stuff is so bad except the two vanilla monsters (Hydra and Black Dragon).
People like to say Lizardmen are in a bad place... and theyre right. But as a DE fan, they also are. Most of the stuff they ever got was mid as heck, or just bad. And their slave mechanics were given to Chorfs, and replaced with a worse counterpart. They desperately need strong campaign mechanics, and FUN stuff as well. Murderous Prowess is awful, both in campaign and pvp. Theyre weaker than High Elves in every imaginable way, a race I constantly feel like Im being an underdog with. Their Lords are strong for the most part, but not necessarily fun... they have strong lategame units, sure... but so do all other factions. If I wouldnt like them thematically, I wouldnt be incentivized to play them at all.
I personally would not put CoC into S tier, merely on the basis that you *need* it for Chaos to feel complete. Its kinda scummy that most of those units werent free additions. Its scummy that most of them are complete recolors. Its scummy that not even the Chosen are unique in terms of functionality, but theyre all heavy hitter metal plated dudes. Which we already had as base Chosen. I still fondly remember the 4 Chosen from Wh2 SFO. Khorne dual axes (which we got, yes.. but I think they were base game), the wierd TZ cultists who had soul stealer-like ability, Nurgle Scythe Chosen and Slaanesh fast greatswords. I have the same complaint on the colored Beastmen units. Theyre just reskins and function more or less the same as their base units. Tzaangors went from a unique magic missile unit in modded Wh2 to being overpowered, tanky infantry better than Bestigors, to be frank.
Nice Video but maybe you should change the Title to Warhammer 3 and not just Warhammer because it can mislead some people which are new to the franchise. Because some DLC's are trash in WH1/2 but good/amazing in WH3 because of the mentioned reworks.
p.s: I don't agree with Nakai. He plays pretty good nowadays.
I honestly hate the Chaos Dwarfs.. Not because I don't like playing them but because i hate playing AGAINST them.
They are so stupidly powerful it is just infuriating to fight them.
The Chorfs are very few in number. Yet the AI manages to pump out ridiculous amounts out and uses barely any Greenskins.
The artellery is absolute horse shit. They have stupid range, stupid damage, stupid health and most of them are unbreakable... Like what?
The Lore of Hashut is also just broken it is (relatively) cheap and super powerful. The passive effect is straight up damage to everyone. Come again?
And because just having one lore wouldn't be fun let's also give them fire, death and shadows.. You know.. For balance..
Meaning you fight armies with 6-8 Taurus/Bale Taurus and maybe a few Lamasu at the time. How is that fun please?
How CA hasn't nerfed them yet is beyond me.
Oh right.. They are DLC..
Last but not least... The fucking Taurus... Oh my Christ... The amounts of single entities the Chorf AI is spamming is just frustrating. And every caster and their mother also gets one! Because not only do they have good magic, lets
I am only needing latest DLC and honestly, it would be for me now (for "deal price" in Steam 19,99€ what is ridicilous price still). Have been strong supporter for this game serie and loved most DLC's and games but last one was.. just bad.
Champions of chaos. Still an excuse to NOT create actually original mechanics.
I don't hate it, it brought a lot of units for a reasonable price. But the reskins are still reskins even though they are not bad... they could have been better, Chosen in general still have too many common points in their armour, which is a shame.
And the mechanics of the 4 new factions that are still completely copied from the monogod mechanics. And we have 2 Slaaaneshi lords with the same mechanics to boot.
It's a good DLC in a sense, but it's still super lazy and could have been much better. I'm still dumbfounded you place it at S tier purely because of the nostalgia it induces in you. At least you recognize its flaws... somewhat. Personally, if it means NOT having original mechanics and the so called "subculture" mechanic being supposedly the original mechanic (it's not, it's lazy "oh you have now LESS units than a regular faction, lol, that's a mechanic"), then that's absolutely terrible and I'm genuinely afraid some people at CA actually listen to you thinking that's okay. It is not. Actual new mechanics, or please just don't. Even if they are somewhat reskinned mechanics like Ostankya's, at least it is actually original. The Champion of chaos' mechanics are the most literal reskin of mechanics of all reskins, it's just plain bad.
Thankfully, at least Shadows of Change showed that they would still create new factions with actually NEW mechanics, and very cool and original ones to boot. I hope they continue on THAT line and not on the Champions of Chaos' line. Which worries me, because Shadows of Change was quite bad on several of other aspects. If they end up thinking that new mechanics don't interest players any more and that they just need to do more Chaos of Champions factions with no new mechanics, I'm going to cry.
Shadow of Change in F is too hard, it's technically not fair to the good and excellent stuff that was present in the DLC, The LL were absolutely great, their faction mechanics were good (except The Changeling's which was absolutely awesome). It's a pretty good DLC actually. Or it would if it was priced decently.... Just for the price, I agree that F rank is quite deserved, it's not really objective, but it's fair. Fuck CA and the Shadows of Change's price, I could never agree with that price. I really hope they change that for the next DLCs, that it comes back to being fair. Hell, for all I've said against Champions of Chaos, at least it was decently priced. Not Shadows of Change...
F tier just for price, and that's fair.
Apart from that, I basically agree with all of the remaining tier list.
i like the high elv part of queen and the crone and dislike the dark elv part the blood voyage feels so strange it is a ai controlled army that is not doing much woud be much better if it woud be a like khorne / slaanesh devotee army. shadow of change is the only dlc i do not own and will not buy it until ca adds more content to it and or reduce the price
I agree with everything but Nakai. In warhammer 2 he was trash but warhammer 3 i like him way more
quality of chaos dwarves was not there. they are a blast to play. but it is mostly rekinned mechanics. no real reworks with it. and the lords played exactly the same. no variation except a Stat or resource buff. felt exactly the same. at least in previous race packs in wh2. the lords varied a tiny bit. if they all had unique mechanics. even small ones. then I say, is barely worth its cost.
SOC Surprise :DD
the ai is horrible after patch 4.1 the ai keeps setting up their army in a line like in an ambush. when I siege. they ball up moat units on one gate. with a line back into the base. completely ignoring placing on wall spots with a tower. even if it it right next to their start. and if I send in a flying unit. they all ball up. even artillery. hey, I am coming guys. make a big ball so I can magic burn u all. broke a lot of stuff. at least cavalry is working right now. we got pull out game.
Bro, don’t apologize. Shadows of change was abysmal. It is easily F tier.
IMO, Jun Bo (spelling?) is a generic re-skin of the dragon twins. At best, he is nothing special, and that’s the best LL shadows of change has to offer.
The Changeling is interesting, however, a campaign where you cannot lose does not interest me.
Finally, even mentioning Mother Ostankya is more effort than CA put into her. What a dumpster fire.
Good work on the tier list. Cheers!
shadows of change wasnt that bad
SoC is not F tier but I understand why you put it there. I think the design and theming are bad and it is grossly overpriced but the content is still there, with a lot of cool units that are not reskins. For that alone I would put it in C.
Before you guys comes at me, I did not buy it. Thank god creamAPI exist
How to tell peiople you don't care about Kislev without telling people.
Yeah they got some content, parts not fully fleshed out, parts overpowered for no reason, parts that really shouldn't be there. And then there's all the content that could've been there (hag lore, just to name one).
@@LyricalDJ I did say the design and theming was bad and that it was overpriced for the content that was in there.
The problem with Kislev is GW, they just won't do it justice except throwing ice and bears at them. There is only so much CA can go from there, I do agree about the hag lore though.
Personally I hope someone one will make an Ungol mod
don't buy any WH3 DLCs until the game is actually fixed and working as designed... unless you want to support bad practices and shitty "industry standard"
Or buy DLCs as cheaply as possible and make sure they don't actually get the premium amount of profit they could get while you still get your toys. The sale is 50% off of you go to key websites during said sale you can get upto 80% off. Considering Valve and then GW takes their cuts they get next to nothing.
I never understood why ppl put tomb kings so up, its a slow and boring faction. Dont get me wrong, I like them, but every single friend that are not that much into warhammer or strategy would agree. Units are weak same as vampires, development is slow and you armies barely can 1v1 no one "if", you rely on spam all of these are not noob friendly hence why I would never put it that high or recommend it
All of the undead factions are pretty bland, without magic the Vampire Counts would be one of the worst factions in the game, and the TKs would be in a similar position without their constructs
I love Tomb Kings I put them that high up because I honestly really enjoy them :)
@@dathremo.’without magic’ and ‘without constructs’ that’s…. That’s literally the point….
@@Druchii you think the entire point of a faction should be a set of mid to late game units with a limited recruitment capacity? or blobbing up to spam healing magic? I'm sorry you find that enjoyable
@@dathremo.single favorite faction besides skaven
Chaos Dwarfs S-Tier while Shadows of Change F-Tier? The content of the two are not that far apart so the DLC should be 1-2 Tiers apart at Max. But it gives more views if you rank Shadows of Change at F-Tier right? With all the hate around this DLC.
SoC is the worst DLC CA have done in my opinion and that’s putting aside the price, mother and the changing are both terrible campaigns unfortunately
@@timknight2834 Changeling was more fun for me than Chaos Dwarfs as it offers a completely unique playstyle while the Chaos Dwarfs are a copy of the Dwarfs. Both DLC's have roughly the same content, why is one S-Tier and one F-Tier?
@@kidnamedfinger2625
First of all: I don't play to win, I play to immerse myself in a Fantasy World. And as the Changeling, you feel like a real servant of Tzeentch. You can play as you like as the Changeling: Conquer all, make specific factions your vassal, bring Chaos through cults etc. You cannot really do that with other factions.
If you need the theoretically possibility of losing a campaign (which is very hard, I never lost a campaign) to have fun with a game, than that's ok. I have fun immersing myself. The game itself offers no challenge, you have to set your own goals to do that.
As for the content: Changeling provides you with three unique lords and their respective playstyles. Chaos Dwarfs provides you also with three lords, but they play identically. Once you play one of them, you know all three.
The amount of units that came with the Chaos Dwarfs are almost all reskins of existing units, except for a few. How ist that new content? Shadows of Change provides more unique units than Chaos Dwarfs. And I would say that the mechanics of the Chaos Dwarfs are not new, most of them are again reskins of existing mechanics.
So I see these two DLC's roughly in the same tier, objectively. Most people cannot be objective, best example is this video.
@@kidnamedfinger2625 You accuse me of not being objective, while saying that a campaign without a challenge is dull and offers no reward... which is a subjective opinion.
If you have no fun with a campaign where you cannot lose (again it is HARD to ever lose a campaign), than that's ok, but that doesn't mean that there cannot be a challenge or a reward.
Both DLC's have most of their mechanics copied and reskinned, doesn't matter how you put it. I have no problem with that, why do you? I find it only stupid to put these two DLC so far apart from each other in a list.
Bit ironic when ypu said uou ahouldnt oay for something that shoukd be base game when that applies to pretty much ever dlc should be base game
That's a very bad tier list IMO, it's only accuarate in that the SoC and Blood and gore are F and that TK are S
1) it's subjective
2) explain why you think so. Sure you don't have to but we have no way of telling what your reasons are.
@@LyricalDJ 1) Yeah , this is my opinion.
2) I have a pretty well formed opinion on everyone but the CD but I wasn't going to go into a rant that I didn't thought anyone would be willing to read
How can you rank champions of chaos anything but F tier. It was so unbalanced and overpowered I refused to buy it. You dont pay to win DLC in games.. I guess if you suck and need help to win campaigns this DLC is great. Chaos Dwarfs was a good DLC for example.