Is Your Knitting Pattern Illegal?
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
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The scarf on my silent partner is Clupeidae and it can be found in my book Mosaic & Lace Knits available from your Local Yarn Store or from Amazon (affiliate link): amzn.to/31Wnlcs
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For more reading on Copyright as it applies to knitting patterns check out the below links:
Patterns and Copyright Protections - The Ohio State University Library
library.osu.ed...
Ask a Lawyer! Knitting and Copyright - Vogue Knitting
web.archive.or...
A Step in the (Copy)Right Direction: Common Copyright Myths - Craft Industry Alliance
craftindustrya...
Copyright in Knitting and Crocheting - PlagiarismToday
www.plagiarism...
Copyright [a primer for knitters] - Knitty
knitty.com/ISS...
Knitting Patterns: Copyright, Distribution and Commercial Use - Media Peruana Knits
www.mediaperua...
Copyright FAQ for Knitters - Ms. Yarnaholic’s School for Wayward Skeins
yarnaholic.wor...
yarnaholic.wor...
I really appreciate the discussion on this video! Several comments led me to other information and I now have serious doubts about what I said regarding which laws apply across international lines. If you find yourself in a situation where you really need to know I strongly encourage you to consult a legal copyright professional. I am going to pin this post so that it comes up on top so people will know that particular section of my discussion is in question.
I like how you presented yourself and the information. You shared the seriousness of copyright laws with an upbeat attitude. I found all that you shared to be very helpful. Thank you for telling us this.
I appreciate that! Thanks!
I was bummed and sweating bullets about the photocopying patterns from the library until you mentioned it was okay. Yay!
I am so sorry to have created stress in your live. I am a huge proponent of Libraries. They are one of the most valuable resources we have in our society. I am even one of those people who make use of Inter Library Loan to get stuff my local library doesn't have LOL!
I asked my librarian specifically about this as I love to hightlight my size and write my notes directly on the pattern, but im obviously not going to write in a library book. Ido make a point of only copying what I am going to knit.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit I was really glad to hear this too! My library uses some great apps (I primarily use Hoopla) for us to check out ebooks, digital audiobooks, tv shows, music, etc, and I’ve been getting a LOT of ebooks there this past year, lol. Libraries are so awesome! I couldn’t figure out how to print the patterns from the app on my phone though so I ended up buying some used editions of books, and I’m still a bit worried I might have done something wrong there or taken money away from designers... do you have any thoughts or info or opinions on buying used knitting books?
Lovely scarf on the mannequin!
Thank you!
You can thank the Disney corporation for why copyright is as long as it is in the US. I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to get it extended again. They've been continuously pushing to get extensions so much, if not all, of Walt's concepts (Mickey mouse, etc.) say out of public domain.
100% this. Mickey should have already passed into public domain. And that's one of the reasons I put a disclaimer on the video - the number of years of protection is a moving target. 75 years after death was the last number I read, but it may have already changed and I'm already wrong.
Walt Disney died in 1966. Last I checked, I'm not 75; sooooo by _that_ "last number," he's still earning money. Don't guess it'll do him much good in the grave (or wherever he is now); but that's the legal system for you.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit Mickey Mouse will enter public domain in 2024 provided it doesn’t get changed before then
Thank you for this video. This has been so helpful for what covers copy right in the yarn community. I know there is issues with copyright patterns but sometimes there is a big grey area over what is and isn’t okay.
It can be a sticky subject, but I thought it was important LOL!
so much value! Thank you So much!, believe me i searched all the internet for this kind of info and i couldn't find something better
I'm so glad it was helpful!
This was a great video with great information. I've done a great deal of research regarding quilt patterns, because my husband wanted me to sell quilts, but I informed him of the copyright laws for the person who created the patterns. I could make quilt from old pattern squares to be on the safe side, but this isn't the right time in my life. I loved the information you gave, Thank you!
I'm not up to speed on how all of this works in the quilting world - but good on you for doing your research!
Clupeidae is so pretty. Love the colors you chose. I'm glad you covered libraries.
Thank you! It is a fun scarf. And I LOVE LOVE LOVE libraries.
Thank you very much for this video. Sadly, in the knitting communities that I have been around, there is a "cheapness factor" among knitters; copying patterns & sharing, rather than buying the book for oneself. I have bought a few knitting books of my own. After listening to your video I will definitely not be accepting copies of patterns from others as in the past as a uninformed knitter. As in any field, one should be paid their worth for their knowledge. I have learned a lot from this video; wherever one lives, you have presented very good information. Thank you.
This is an absolutely important topic and I'm glad that you covered it...as much as you could without having ESQ behind your name. You touched on a few things that I have wondered about...and you said enough for me to raise additional questions/concerns. Thank you so much!
Glad I got you thinking!
I appreciated the information and mostly love your upbeat, forthright presentation.
I am so glad you liked the video. This one is probably my most serious one LOL.
Just found you and want to give an enthusiastic thumbs-up. Creating takes much more time, energy, and material than appears in the final finished product. Crafters of all kinds (including word- and music-crafters) are routinely robbed of both the monetary reward and -- maybe equally important -- the respect that their final successfully completed project deserves. You don't need to apologize in any way for helping viewers to understand this important point. Thank you for taking time to make such a clear and helpful video!
I'm so glad you found me! I hope to continue to earn your viewership.
People literally share video instructions without knowing by putting them public in their CZcams file. Happens so many times. You need a person full-time scanning CZcams to stop it. I posted your video in a group I know it happens a lot of times. Makes people more alerted. Thank you so much, Barbara.
Thank you so much for sharing my video! You have no idea how much that helps me. I often get comments on my videos where viewers ask me to walk through a pattern (often not even one I've written) step by step and I cannot believe that they ask. This is the same as giving away my or another designer's pattern for free. I understand that some people are visual learners but I believe designers should be compensated for their work.
I've been contemplating making walk through videos and researching ways to offer what would essentially be "video patterns", but they would most assuredly be pay for and would cost considerably more than a written pattern due to the amount of work that would have to go into them. I don't know if it is worth it.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit I know Jen Tyler does her own while designing, It's all in a Nutshells Esther does video sometimes free patterns. Bonnie Bay crochet makes the clearest tutorials ever, on her own paid site, the free on CZcams. It's a lot of work. The most asked question for buying a pattern is "is there a video", so it will be a success though.
Vanessa from Hooked on Sunshine also charges for both her written and video patterns, each separately. That way, those who don't want the videos don't have to purchase them. I do prefer to pay a creator for their pattern, as there is a lot of time and hard work that goes into it.
Since I also do counted cross stitch, this excellent summary of the tiptop of the world of copyright as it protects the designer is one I am very grateful that you have addressed. I'm going to head down to your links, Barbara, because you really do good research as well as careful explanation of things. Smiles....Thank you again!
I’d be super curious to hear about how counted cross stitch laws differ. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that they fall much more under the heading of art with tighter protections than “useful objects”.
Hi, ma'am! I had read your reply a few days ago and meant to reply then, but the day got away from me...mostly because (coincidentally) I stumbled on an interesting situation ('interesting' meaning 'about as much fun and pulling cactus spines out of my fingers...) vis a vis cross stitch. I'll be able to write a bit about it this afternoon, but it's gonna be longer than average....Just wanted to let you know...
You have answered some questions that i have been searching for! Thank you for all the info you give. :)
Glad it was helpful!
@@WatchBarbaraKnit i agree it was helpful and simply explained in simple to understand way.
Another great, thought-provoking podcast! You always seem to ask questions that really make me think outside-the-box. Thanks for the information given.
Yay for thinking deep thoughts!
As a consumer in the US, the copyright laws that apply to me are US laws, regardless of where the pattern originated.
Thank you for discussing the hard things. Although I don’t think people are being malicious, there is much confusion and infringement in the fiber world.
To paraphrase a famous quote - never attribute to malice, that which can be adequately explained by ignorance. The issue is those who, when they learn the facts, double down and insist that it's OK. Admitting mistakes is hard for some people.
What I think most people who object are saying, is that it *Should* be okay. As one crafter questioned earlier, if she has a digital pattern that she purchased and is giving away--the entire pattern, no copies (digital or printed) remaining, except (perhaps) in her head (or are we being charged for those, too, these days?)--then why should the "digital' format make a difference? She either had to hand-write it out; or use her own printer ink to print it (effectively costing _her_ money, not the original publisher). The irony is that a book (or other printed copy) conveys many more rights to the end user than a digital copy, even though the hard copy costs the original publisher more to produce.
It just seems that in this brave new "digital" world, there is no such thing as acknowledging the "spirit" of a copyright law. That, to me, seems like a shame; because it can come back to bite us in the long run.
See the EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation) and "Defective By Design" for more information on some of these issues.
A great explanation of something most of us don't even think about. Thank you :)
I think about a lot of things like this LOL! Glad you liked the video.
I'm watching this on 9-20-22, Thankful you for clearing these individual situations up. you always have the best information about this craft . Thumbs UP!
Glad it was helpful!
You are right to be concerned about copyright. I myself always respect a person's copyright. If I see a great pattern demonstrated on youtube, I always refer others to the designer's youtube channel. No matter where I download a free pattern, I direct people to where I got the pattern and let them download it for themselves. Since I do genealogy, I deal with copyright all the time. I am the owner of my family photos . I don't mind others posting my family photos, just as long and they give me the credit for the photo. Copyright is a personal right, we all have the right to expect this right to be respected by all.
Very educational and helpful 👍thank you . I’ve been crocheting for about 7 years and knitting for a year and have acquired a good collection of free and payed patterns which I have made items from ,for myself and as gift to family and friends. Lately I’ve been told that I should sell what I make so these links and info will be very helpful in me doing the right thing for the designers of patterns I have acquired , if I ever decide to sell anything ,but so far I enjoy making and gifting only 🙂❤️🧶
Simply thinking about the details puts you way ahead of a lot of people LOL!
Thank you, I learnt about a book, that was available in 1987, the person who mentioned the book stated that a certain pattern from the book was available for sale on EBay, I went and looked at the pattern, decided it looked iffy and being a cross stitcher too, realized it was not a good idea, I did a search on a second hand book site and managed to snag me a copy, it should arrive tomorrow or Monday, people who disregard the rules annoy me no end.
That sounds super fishy and I'm glad you smelled it out. Have fun with your new book!
My husband is a landscape photographer and my role is to be on the lookout for use of our pictures in local ads or newspapers etc.
I am also a photographer and there is a lot of overlap in copyright issues.
Wow I didn’t realize it was so complicated ,but VERY informative.thank you
It gets so convoluted LOL! Thanks for watching.
I always give credit to the designer and where to get the pattern when I make something for myself or a gift. I always do my do diligence to contact the designer and receive permission if I am going to knit and sell at the local craft fair. I appreciate your video and if someone gives you a thumbs down it is most likely because they know they are doing something incorrectly or unethically and don’t like that fact that you stated it so clearly. Thank you again I have subscribed.
Thank you! I am so glad you found my channel and hope to continue to earn your views.
Thank you! I really appreciate hearing this information. I am a professional visual artist (photography, sculpture) and am thinking about creating my first knit patterns.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you so much for this explanation, it certainly clears up some thoughts in my mind. I'm not one for giving away patterns even if they are free but I know others who do this all of the time. Thank you, thank you!
Well, we are each only responsible for our own integrity and actions. Glad you liked the video.
This is a great discussion. Thank you.
One minor point, not all patterns go into public domain 75 years after the creator's death as it is possible for copyright to have been transferred to someone else and may still be in effect.
That is an excellent point and just goes to show how complicated the subject is!
There are many fields where copyright is a grey area. For instance, I'm an oriental dance (a.k.a. bellydance) teacher, and I often attend seminars by international celebrity teachers. Typically, they teach a choreography, which you are then allowed to use. After all, that's what you paid for. Yet, there have been some teachers who said "you can perform it but you cannot teach it to your students". Their rationale being that you would be depriving them of those students who would otherwise come to the seminars directly, instead of the choreo being taught by their own teacher (me, or whoever it is). This is unreasonable, because in reality those students, in most case, would never go to that seminar. For one thing, most of them wouldn't be able to afford that international star teacher. Most importantly they wouldn't be able to absorb a whole choreography in three hours, as they are not that advanced/professional: it can take 3-4 times as much to teach a choreo to a student-level dancer by patiently explaining again and again (whereas in the professional seminar it's a "see and repeat immediately" situation) and we often have to adapt some of the most difficult moves. So most of us think that such requirements absurd and we don't even bother taking that kind of seminars, where there is a restriction on using the choreography also for teaching.
It's an exact parallel to those knit and crochet designers who say "you can make it for yourself but not to sell".
For me, I cannot tell people what they can do with the labor of their own hands. They made it, they get to decide. They can wear it, sell it, donate it, set it on fire! It's theirs.
I appreciate this video so much! I'm a fiber artist and am working on writing patterns for my work for some extra money on the side, and this has helped me understand the legality around patterns a lot. Thank you for the time and work put into this video❤
I am so glad it was helpful.
Thank you for addressing this important issue… Stephanie, of It’s Crochet O’Clock put out similar information a couple of years ago… I thunk it needs doing every now and then to remind us of Howe these things work.
Many are simply uninformed.. as I was years ago, when trying to find a copy of a quilt pattern… I was brand new to such thungd, snd was surprised to learn thst no… my friend st thecwuikt shop could not just give me a copy of The Yellow Brick Road quilt pattern.
Indeed, I subscribe to the "know better, do better" school of thought!
This was an excellent basic and very clear explanation of a complicated subject. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
That was so interesting and informative. I hadn't given much thought to patterns until your previous video about what goes into writing one. This added the next step since I did wonder about how designers protect their creativity and hard work from having them duplicated. Thanks for some of the details! Must be tricky to prosecute. Love that scarf behind you.
Thank you! Honestly, the reason why a lot of this is so murky is that I don't think it has been prosecuted and therefore there is no precedent. While the amount of money being discussed isn't chump change for the individual designers, when compared to the amount of money lawyers cost - it just isn't worth it.
Luckily with regards to people posting things on the internet, lawyers don't have to get involved. The Digital Copyright Millennium Act (DCMA) provided a way for creators to take things into their own hands. Sending a DCMA take-down notice to violators usually takes care of things. If they don't take it down the next step is going to their provider and they run the risk of having their entire site taken down - so usually they comply.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit Isn't that the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)? :) The reason it rings a bell is because I first learned about it around 2003-ish; when a semi-automatic update for a digital music player I had on my Windows XP laptop (I forgot the name) had it referenced in their EULA (End User License Agreement).
Incidentally I rejected the new terms; but since they'd already force-downloaded the update, keeping the old version was no longer an option. :( But since then, I always referred to it as "Dim-kah".
Thanks for putting this into perspective Barbara. Good subject. And for the many that are no designer or creator but just knit or sew, this info is really useful. Thanks also for mentioning the tricky parts of giving a copied pattern to a friend (who hasn't had this question? I for instance have no personal printer, so I go to a copyshop or supermarket to make a copy or print of my magazine or online bought item. I like to write on paper/patterns, or color them, or make notes while working on it. So I usually have paper copies/prints at my table and my knitting friends know this and look through them. That's how it goes. So thanks again for this info. It helps.
I'd probably start smacking grabby hands, but I'm like LOL.
Thanks Barbara 😊 love your channel, you’re a fabulous teacher.
Thank you so much!
wow, that scarf behind you is gorgeous. nice colours.
Oh thank you! I really like doing monochromatic pairings.
It is very informative. We have to give where credit is due, especially someone hard worksThank you for sharing.
My pleasure!
Thank you, I learned a lot. I've always tried to make sure I pay for my patterns or make a donation to the designer when requested. According to your explanation, I think I may have violated some copyrights in my Etsy purchases. I also made a "beginner knitting" kit for a friend that included a pattern that probably shouldn't have been there. Nothing earth shattering but I'm glad to know what the "rules" are so I can keep them in mind.
All we can ask of ourselves is that we know better, we try to do better (thank you Maya Angelou)! Happy Knitting!
This has been great. I have a pattern I want to recreate that is a side way construction. But for a class I'm taking it's a bottom-up with set in sleeves. When it is eventually finished I plan on sharing it on the designers Ravelry. I did buy her ebook as I do have other patterns I do plan on doing with her construction.
Purchasing a pattern to learn the construction is something very common for designers to do. If it is a unique construction it is always a good idea to credit the origination in your pattern. While it might not be a violation of copyright to do what you are suggesting (you might want to look deeper into the clauses on derivative works), I would think long and hard about reproducing a design that would be recognizable as another designers work and publishing it as my own. If your goal is to be a designer and build up a reputation, you might want to consider what reputation that would create.
The first real pattern I ever published was a child's version of a pair of fingerless mitts from another designer. The original pattern was a free pattern so I contacted that designer and asked for permission to share my child's version on Ravelry - also for free. She graciously said yes and her original pattern is very clearly referenced both in the pattern and in the Ravelry listing. Since her pattern was free, I felt it only right to list my modification for free. If hers had been a pay-for pattern I don't think I would have even asked and I would have just kept the pattern for myself.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit Thank you for your reply & information. This is only going to be for myself & a learning experience.
hello, I love you. I hope you are well. im busy drawing right now, thank you for keeping me company with your very entertaining videos. im also an avid knitter. take care.
Thank you so much 😀 I so wish I could draw!
Thank you for sharing this information. It really is a complicated process, best thing to do is not to share or copy in the first place.
Take care and keep safe. xxJane
So true! Thank you for watching.
"best thing to do is not to share or copy in the first place."
That's what they want you to think.
Great video!!! As an artist, author, etc. you did a great job of explaining the basics of copyright.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you!
This reminds me of the discussions regarding fan art in fan communities. Without some sort of increased enforcement, these discussions are nice to reinforce ethical guidelines but beyond that they are simply discussions.
I can totally see that. I am also a member of the photography community and copyright as it applies to photography is an ongoing discussion but I have also seen successful prosecution of infringement.
One positive thing in the knit/crochet industry is that the dominant digital platform has quite a few tools available to creators that makes enforcement a bit easier. But yeah - ripping people off happens every day. Pattern sales through brick and mortar stores have become dominated by this digital platform and there have been stores caught in prove-able copyright infringement. Those stores have been banned from using said platform and it seriously hampers their ability to do business.
I and other designers have also successfully used DCMA take down notices to get illegal patterns taken down off of sharing sites up to and including the point of shutting down at least one pirate site.
I'm never looking at selling, I only llom at ideas for making for family
Finally hopefully this will have some heads popping up
I also appreciate your discussion. What has interested me for years about copyright is the strange fact that most of the artists it is supposed to protect seem to be living in poverty and die that way also. If these patterns are unavailable perhaps publishing companies should be fined for not promoting or making available the materials that these artists have created. After all, there are laws. In conjunction with copyright laws, there should be intellectual hoarding laws. Knitting, tatting, macramé and crochet have all been around for tens of thousands of years; yet within our lifetimes, the access to basic utilitarian and creative works have been restricted to almost nothing. I do love libraries also, if many of these artistic and intellectual works weren't in libraries no one would see them, much less know what they were. Sort of like the illegal collections of cultural archaeological items some privileged individuals keep. I feel robbed.
Thank you for making me more aware of the situation. I have to check MY library for forbidden knowledge. It doesn't seem to be a problem with copyright, but with the publishers willingness to sell. Many of these works will disappear after rotting in the paper patterns, and have to be re-invented or just forgotten. Then the publishers will claim that they were robbed. There is more to this than just artistic compensation, which the artist is entitled.
One thing to consider is that until recently knitwear designers we paid a flat fee by the yarn manufacturers/publishers and did not retain the copyright of their work. if you go back and look at these older publications the designers are frequently not even credited. So even when yarn companies and magazines make their back catalogs available, many/most of the artists do not receive royalties. Designers retaining all of some of the copyright is a relatively recent thing (as in the last 12 - 15 years or so).
@@WatchBarbaraKnit Thank you for these clarifications. I remember way back when copywrite was originally being discussed that it was for the benefit of the artist. This is what sold the concept. Some people were against it because they said it would be taken advantage of and become a tool to deprive people of the benefits. I guess we have both. Best wishes.
Great video! Thank you SO much for the information!
You are so welcome!
Very interesting video - I'm relatively new to knitting. I wouldn't want to violate anyone's copyright. Thank you!
You are so welcome!
Very eloquently explained! Not guilty. 👍👍👍
Yay! You have nothing to fear from the knitting police LOL!
Wow! Thanks! So informative! 👏🏻👏🏻🥰💞🧶💞
Glad it was helpful!
A difficult subject very well explained... 👍
Thanks a lot 😊
I LOVE that scarf in the background! Wow! I LOVE the colors you chose. GORGEOUS ! Great video ! I never thought about that. Would this affect what you can sell? Wow ! I usually only make things I keep or give away, but am making beanie hats for my hubs and fishermen friends to sell for $10 each, so this is definitely smthg I need to think about.
Thank you, I'm glad you like the scarf. I love making people think about stuff LOL.
Barbara, Thank you so much, I was worried because I wanted to make a design with a stitch from the Japanese knitting Stitch Bible by Hitomi Shida... but now I know I can use it! (Making my own chart and instructions)
Anyway, I think is really important to give acknowledgments to the place where you get inspiration (or the designer), it's a wonderful way to say thank you!
Loved this video ♥
Almost every designer utilizes stitch dictionaries so don't worry about that. I believe that there was a point where there were some Vogue stitch dictionaries that tried to restrict usage, but that was un-enforcable. That said, I rarely use something from a stitch dictionary as-is, I usually tinker with them a wee bit. I would recommend you consider that especially with something as widespread and recognizable as the Hitomi Shida stitches. When I use her as a reference I usually pull out elements of a couple of different of her stitch patterns and combine them in a way that isn't already in the book.
So glad you shared this info. I get into arguments with people over intellectual property issues all the time. Most recently it was with someone who said that because he paid several hundred dollars for a concert ticket and he felt the price was too high, and the band in question was rich anyway, that he should be able to share video of that concert freely. Um, no. With the advent of a camera in every phone this can be hard to police, but the guy in question literally had professional quality recording equipment under his coat. Um, no,. Sheesh. I don’t care how rich the band is. You can’t. STEAL their property!! I have a very large library of knitting books and patterns and I can’t tell you the number of people who have asked me to copy stuff out of what I own add share it with them. I always tell people if they want something they can get it themselves, and here’s how. That makes me a little unpopular at times. But I don’t care. Artists and creators deserve to be paid or recognized for their work. I’m not going to be the one to take advantage of anyone.
I agree that concert tickets have gotten stupid expensive but that is more an issue with laws regarding re-selling of tickets and bots buying up everything available - different rant for a different day LOL. But no - that doesn't give you the right to rip off the artist. I'm glad the Library of Trish is closed to the public LOL. When people ask me I always tell them they are welcome to use their phone to take a photo of the ISBN number on the book or the name of the pattern so they can find it for themselves.
Really appreciate you speaking up. It is SUPER frustrating to me that people don't understanding this makes me SO VERY MAD.
There have definitely been times where I have lost my cool over this subject.
Super informative! Thank you!😘❤
You are so welcome!
Hey Barbara! Super helpful video! What about letting friends borrow your knitting books? I would think that be the same as a library but I guessed wrong on some of these other things so... ?? Thanks Barbara (your hair is super cute and curly today :)!
Thank you! My hair has grown into a mind of it's own. Once I've gotten my second vaccine I am so looking forward to getting it tamed a bit LOL. Loaning your books is A-OK! You own them and you can do what you like. You could even re-sell it. Think of it this way - if you own a DVD of a movie you can totally loan that DVD to a friend to watch. What you cannot do is chunk it in your computer, rip off the information, and then burn a new copy for your friend whilst keeping the original.
The intriguing thing about all of this is that wherever digital copies are involved (whether of a movie, music, book, game, or a knitting pattern), the consumer is almost always forced to forfeit the right of first sale, regardless of whether the original digital copy itself is transferred or not. :( Look up DRM (Digital *Restrictions* Management) and the EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation) for more information.
While my own personal experiences with knitting are rather limited, the way the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) and DRM is applied to the PC gaming industry (for instance) has been an absolute disaster. With the proliferation of online "authentication" servers (that a user is required to access before each individual use of a game that they legally own) becoming inaccessible or (worse) shutting down entirely, leaving expensive game software media as costly paperweights, no one really owns what they purchase anymore (in effect)-they are treated as renters. Like the PC philosophy from the World Economic Forum states (regarding the Great Reset and "building back better"), "You will own nothing and be happy." 😐
Great video. Good information to share and show support for designers.
Thanks for watching!
If i have a physical pattern and a digital copy is available i will purchase the digital copy for convenience.
That is awesome of you.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit thank you. I find digital copies ti be easier for me to work with
The one thing I'm confused about is that sometimes a pattern will contain a design element that I like, so I'll use the instructions to incorporate that feature into a piece I'm working on (for example, using a mosaic chart to spice up the stocking stitch section of a hat design). If I were to write up a new pattern for that item, it would contain instructions pulled from multiple sources, but the resulting pattern would be unique. 🤔
Any time I think about it, I get confused because it's like making a collage. You're using bits and pieces of other people's works and pasting them all together on top of each other to make something completely new, but the individual pieces may still be recognizable.
I don’t think it is a violation if you are doing it for your own personal use, or even if you then sell the finished product. Where it becomes an issue is if you are then writing it up and selling the finished pattern. And then it is only an issue if you copy the written instructions verbatim (plagiarism) or cut & paste the actual chart or instructions from the patterns of origin. Actual stitch patterns cannot be copyrighted, no one owns them. But again, if it’s a colorwork chart that could be considered an original work if art then you could have an issue. But those aren’t too common.
"it's like making a collage. You're using bits and pieces of other people's works and pasting them all together on top of each other to make something completely new"
Precisely. All of this is (k)nitpickery. (Ecclesiastes 1:9)
Wow, your video clears up so many things I've always wondered about. Dumb question: I assume that you can give a knitting pattern book to a friend if you don't want it anymore but what about a pattern that you purchase? Not one that you knitted up already but maybe purchased and decided not to knit....can you pass it on to a friend? What about purchasing a pattern to give to a friend as a gift? I have a feeling you are going to say that neither are allowed.
If it was purchased as a hard copy pattern then you can give it away as you please (even sell it I guess). But if it was a digital purchase, those are non-transferable. Digital products are governed by different rules. I know that Ravelry has a method of purchasing digital patterns as gifts, but I don't know about other platforms.
Thing is about "digital products" being non-transferable, if the original owner doesn't keep any copies (and in fact hasn't even used it--therefore has extracted no value from it), wouldn't this fall under the "right of first sale"?
This is what ticks me off royally (to put it nicely in this forum) about "digital products" (or anything where "software" is involved... This issue goes _far_ beyond knitting (or handcrafts in general).
For example, my husband is a skilled mechanic, having worked on all different types of engines (boat, auto, lawn mower, etc.) both professionally as part of his job and as a weekend hobby. It used to be years ago that you could get a hard copy book of Chilton's, or Haynes' auto repair manuals, complete with wiring schematics, diagrams, etc. that you could use to fix or maintain your own (or someone else's) vehicle. They were pricey (like $50 or more); but once you owned them, they were *yours* . You could use them personally, and keep them as long as you needed. Loan them out to a friend; donate them to a library-even sell them along with the vehicle (once you didn't need them anymore). Whatever.
BUT, *Now* that they are "digitized," guess what? You *Might* find them online somewhere; and you might only pay half or two-thirds the original price for them. But you don't get to keep them. You're just _borrowing_ them--for six months, a year; or whatever other "term" the manufacturer decides. They are heavily governed by DRM (Digital Restrictions Management) on your computer, laptop or other device. In order to access them, your device had to be constantly connected to the internet, _And_ at a certain minimum speed (that was not even an option for us, since we live in a semi rural area where the monopoly internet provider refuses to upgrade the legacy copper-wire DSL lines)-or you were not allowed to utilize the files that you bought and paid for. In addition, you could only access them from the device where you bought them. Upgraded your computer? Reformatted your PC's hard drive? Too bad, we're sad-better luck next time. :(
This kind of BS was several years ago, when our 2007 SUV experienced a wiring problem due to a manufacturing defect. It was well-known by the manufacturer; but there was no recall in effect; and we didn't have the money to take it to a professional so-called "authorized" garage to get it repaired. A friend had tried to help us find a copy of the applicable wiring schematic online; and wound up with malware on his computer for his trouble. :( It just never ends.
Some other areas where this same principle applies is in digital books, music, movies and games. The publishers completely own ALL the rights. An actual digital file copy costs them extremely little to manufacture and distribute; but in many cases they charge nearly the same price (or more) than a more traditional physical copy would cost. Yet these are encumbered with so-called "licenses". You can't time or space-shift the contents. You can't loan them to a friend, resell them, or even move them from one device to another. They won't work in a foreign country, if you just happen to travel with them. Sometimes they're even tied to a "subscription" service, which must be maintained for a monthly or yearly fee, in order to _keep_ using them. And God forbid if you wanted to utilize instrumental "soundtracks" as background music to perform at a church worship service, party, or an informal outdoor concert, even for charity. Oh _noooooo_ -you need a _special_ "license" for that.
Meanwhile, the publishing companies' fat cats get even richer and fatter; and the usage restrictions the bureaucracy dreams up just keep getting more and more restrictive every year. Soon everyone will "own nothing, and be happy" as the World Economic Forum suggests (research, "The Great Reset"). But the point is, regardless of what the media contains, the end consumers just keep getting shafted. If you don't believe it, or are not concerned about this, just bend over; because they've got lots more coming. :(
@@nostalkingzone Amen
Super informative! Thank you!
This was so informative and so helpful! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us!
Glad it was helpful!
A complicated issue that complicates life and sometimes gets the innocent knitter into trouble. That's why I don't participate in writing my own patterns for spinniing or knitting.... I have some good ones but as you mention will only share with those around me. That is the natural way of sharing that is tried and true, at least for now, lol.
It is always wonderful to share your own work if that is what you are moved to do.
Thank you so much for this information. Should you have gotten thumb-downs I'd bet they're from people who'd never work for free 😕
I love thumbs ups, but pretty much don't pay attention to the few down ones.
Very helpful video. Thank you so much for sharing your research.
You are so welcome!
Another excellent & Informative video. Very much appreciated. 🙏🏻❤️
You are so welcome
I was wondering about that. I made a pattern but I’ve never written it down, for a blanket, and i was wondering if i learned the puff stitch for instance from someone else and i used that stitch along with other stitches in my blanket was that wrong. So i think its not after listening to you because the pattern is an original. Thanks for the info 😊
You 100% cannot copyright a knit or crochet stitch. That's one of the few things that is totally spelled out.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit thank you 😊
@@WatchBarbaraKnit Fortunately! Remember the controversy with Bikram Choudhury who wanted to copyright his sequence of 26 yoga postures? He lost his case because yoga postures have been there for thousands of years, and just putting them into a certain sequence is not something you can copyright.
@@irmar Thanks for the laugh!! 🤣🤣🤣 😁
I'm not a lawyer either, but I did take an intellectual property survey course, and this is a really good overview of the topic.
Thank you!
Some really good points! I get it. No copies and I agree ☝️ 🧶🧶🧡🧡
Thanks for watching!
Great video Barbara!
Thank you!
Great information, thanks for sharing.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for this video! You really managed to bring up a tricky subject and clear things up. I am very much new to the knitting community and it is good to get a legal and ethical perspective for when I am exploring the world of yarn and patterns. But how basic can a pattern be before it is not something that can be copyrighted? I mean, when I knit a basic beanie or mitt, it is not from a pattern - just from how my grandmother showed me a decade or two ago and adjusted to the yarn and intended wearer. And what if I put a cable or some new stitch I learned from a pattern I bought, on it?
The design cannot be copyrighted, only the written/graphical instructions. So your hypothetical is just fine!
Thank you for this information. A rather challenging topic.
I usually will email or make a comment on a video if I want to make the item for sale to ask permission from the maker.
I do have a question though; if I write down instructions from a video tutorial, For MY use only, is that a copyright infringement? I don't buy too many physical patterns because they are in too small of print for me to be able to use them. On PDF patterns, if they are published in words and not pictures of the text, my phone or computer can read them to me which makes using the pattern so much easier! When I transcribe patterns from video tutorials I usually put it in a minimum of 24 point Arial Black font so I am able to see the instructions. Is that copyright infringement? What if the designer also has a pattern for purchase?
I do not want to steal from makers and never share what I write. I doubt most people would want a multi page pattern printed on one side in hugh fonts anyway.
Am I understanding correctly that if I enlarge the print on a purchased pattern (and I generally remove pictures and extraneous information) so I can actually use the pattern that is not copyright infringement as I own the pattern and am making the copy for personal use only?
Thanks for the clarification Barbara! I appreciate your willingness to talk about challenging topics.
By the way you look great and I love the scarf on your silent partner. It is good to see you!
Considering it is for personal use only and since it is from a free video - I cannot see how it would be infringement!
@@WatchBarbaraKnit thanks Barbara! I didn't think it was, but appreciate the opinion of someone who has done more research than I have.
Very interesting and informative
Glad you think so!
I've created basic patterns for a number of garments in various styles, using algebra (occasionally calculus), but I commit the numbers to memory. It's silly, but I'm wary of writing patterns, as it may lead to a sellable book. If I put something on the market about, say, men's sweaters, I feel that I will be sued, even though the patterns come from my own knowledge and experience, not the work of others. Irrational? Perhaps, but I can't afford to be dragged into court.
What can you do when someone steals your copyrighted amigurumi design and sells it on Etsy?
I'm afraid the only thing I can suggest is to consult a lawyer.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit thank you
I was at a yard sale a couple years ago and bought some knitting books, included on the table was a binder full of printed out knitting patterns for (I think) $2. I didn't think much of it at the time, but now I'm wondering if that was a no-no.
If they were printed out versions of digital patterns then it would pretty much be like taking a book, photocopying it, and then selling that as a book. But I doubt it was done with any malice, the person who bought it probably paid the $2 for the binder and chucked the patterns LOL.
The reason why there's no magic number is because proving a work is transformative, as in, it builds upon the original or incorporates aspects of the original and creates entirely new media, is subjective and case by case.
I absolutely agree that the unauthorized distribution of a free pattern is illegal, however, I find this logic interesting. I'd love to see the damages that are sued for and how they reached that calculation if anybody actually decides to pursue such a case. lol I guess punitive damages could be awarded.... but why? Unless there was malicious intent.
Not paying for something that is supposed to be paid for is malicious, intent or no.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit Not necessarily. Sharing a pattern that you think is cool with a friend that thinks its cool may "technically" be actionable, however there would be no malicious intent here. This would be no different than ladies sharing a cooking recipe that they found in some book. However, sharing it over the internet with everybody knowing it doesn't belong to you and even charging for it could be considered malicious intent.
Either way, it would be interesting to see how many of these instances become cases that actually get tried. Most content creators don't care enough to make a big deal about it. That does not make it right though.
Great info as always...👍
Glad you liked it!
I almost never make anything exactly as designed. In fact I often use a stitch pattern & completely reshape the garment. I dont think any stitch pattern is copy-rightable. And frankly knitting pattern shaping usually sucks. I despise dropped shoulders.
Then Im old & have patterns going back to the 1800s. The designer is dead. The publishing house has long since been out of biz. I copied a pattern out of one such pattern - gloves - another knitter admired it. I offered it to her & she had a fit about copyright violations. She literally could never in a decade be able to find it in order to buy it. But treated me like dirt because I offered the pattern to her.
Big beef: you own the book. You want another copy somewhere else. In our case it was my brother's daughter. We bought her all kinds of books games & dvds when she spent weekends here. When she went back to her mothers home, it was like a black hole & no one ever saw them again. So I upgraded my computer scanner to vopy DVDs & OCR to copy the books after scanning. Microsoft blocked both processes. There was only 1 owner/viewer/reader. But no way to utilize the perfectly LEGAL copy-for-ones-self exclusion. Finally my computer rebuilder guy put some chinese software on my computer that made the desired copies.
Something from the 1800's has most assuredly passed into public domain and can be freely shared.
I have only one problem with copywriter stuff….. I created stuff many years ago(before internet) and found others creating them . Too many people come up with the same idea and some thing were designed before anyone was born…….
It really gets hard to prove
The design itself cannot be copyrighted. Only the actual written, charted, and pictorial instructions.
The information about applicability of copyright law is wrong. The Berne Convention specifies that the copyright law of the country in which the work (in this case a knitting pattern) is performed (used) is the law that applies, not the law in the country of origin.
This is why I recommend people do their own research, things get very complicated. It is good to know that the concept of "country of origin" is applied to the finished object created from the pattern and is therefore governed by those rules. But I believe my points regarding the actual written and graphical instructions that make up the "pattern" are still valid. The reproduction and all derivative rights for the pattern are determined by the country of origin of the authorship of the pattern.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit No. All copyrights are applied according to the country where it is being used. The Berne Convention is very specific about this.
@Chris O Very interesting, I obviously need to do more reading. Regardless, all of the protections that I have mentioned in this video are the minimum protections required by the Berne Convention "Subject to certain allowed reservations, limitations or exceptions." specifically: "the right to make reproductions in any manner or form (with the possibility that a Contracting State may permit, in certain special cases, reproduction without authorization, provided that the reproduction does not conflict with the normal exploitation of the work and does not unreasonably prejudice the legitimate interests of the author; and the possibility that a Contracting State may provide, in the case of sound recordings of musical works, for a right to equitable remuneration)" resides with the party of authorship.
So just to understand.......if I see a picture of lets say, a hat, and i make the hat without reading the pattern, then there is no infringement, correct?
Correct! But I notice that your handle indicates you’re Canadian... and your laws may be different.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit So, if she makes the hat without reading the pattern; but then moves to another country, can she still make duplicates of that hat from scratch? (if she chooses to)?
Some patterns specify that you can only use it to make items for yourself , can not make items to sell. I do not know if that is enforceable.
As far as I know, in the US, that is unenforceable.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit
I agree.
Thank you for the comment. I have made items and given them to my friends. They offer to pay me, and for me it is enough that they like my work and want to wear it. Often, they insist, so I ask that they make a donation to a charity.
what about all those patterns that are printed on the back of a yarn wrap. I have given those to friends that have bought the same yarn but with different pattern. I have a small binder of printed patterns. What will happen when I die and my kids get it.
Assuming you’re talking about printed, hard copy patterns, not print outs of digital patterns, you can give those away as you please. What you can’t do is make xerox copies of the labels/patterns & pass them out to your friends.
What about sharing reels/videos on instagram or Facebook of 1 or a combination of stitches you learned from the knit pattern you bought? Is that considered illegal?
You cannot copyright a stitch pattern, only the physical instructions.
Great video Barbara!! I sell my knits, I make my own patterns and designs. I get annoyed at ppl who say "oh this is a free pattern I can use it to make items to sell." So annoyed!! Unless it says it's ok it's not ok!
I have one pattern, I think I bought it from knit picks, called the Tanta Shawl. I bought it long before I started selling my knits, it's the only pattern I've ever seen (paid for or free) that says you can use it to sell things as long as you give the pattern author credit. So that's the only time I've used a pattern for something I'm going to sell, I put her name/credit in the etsy listing, and on the tag if I'm selling in person. Weirdly I had someone message me on etsy, saw my listing of the Tanta Shawl, wanted me to email them the pattern. I said I couldn't do that, told them the name of the pattern and where I thought I bought it. I don't think that's what she wanted to hear because I never heard back.
SOOOO here's the thing that I actively avoided talking about, and I encourage you to read the links I included if this interests you. From what I have been able to determine, according to US law, no amount of disclaimers on a pattern can prevent you from selling something you made with your own hands. A copyright statement is simply saying that the contents of the document are covered under copyright law. Copyright law does not extend to governing what can be done with the finished product produced from the knitting or crochet pattern. Contacting/crediting the designer is polite and well appreciated, but not required. But then you get into more a more complex situation if say a large corporation starts mass producing the thing ... it really is a hot mess, which is why I avoided the whole subject of selling things you make from patterns.
For the record - if you wanted to sell something made from one of my patterns ... have at it! I am not in the market of selling finished pieces so it is not competition for me!
Where might we find a pattern for the scarf behind you? It is gorgeous!
Thank you! The scarf on my silent partner is Clupeidae and it can be found in my book Mosaic & Lace Knits available from your Local Yarn Store or from Amazon (affiliate link): amzn.to/31Wnlcs
@@WatchBarbaraKnit Awesome! Just ordered from Amazon!
Thank you so much!
Fantastic!
Many thanks!
Hi Barbara, please help me with these abbreviations;
Row 1 - (RS), K0 (6,0, 6), *P3, K9; rep from * to last 3 (9,3,9) sts, P3, K0, (6,0,6).
Appreciate your help.
Thank you!
Hi, I replied to this question on the other video where you asked the same/similar question. The comments here on CZcams aren’t really the best place for these kinds of questions. You’d probably get better results if you joined the Watch Barbara Knit FaceBook group.
I am not in Facebook, however, thank you for replying, appreciate your time.
I've been holding back starting a twitch stream for this exact reason. I want to stream basically yarn asmr, but i dont want to take on any special projects to do it; i want to keep working on my wips from patterns that are "copywritten" (air quotes because i dont know how protected they are). its probably pattern and disclaimer specific, but if i were to stream the making of an item from a copywritten pattern, without showing any of the pattern, will i be in violation??
I honestly don't have an answer for that one. Technology advances faster than laws regarding said technology. I have had many requests from commenters wanting me to do walk through tutorials of patterns - often not even my patterns - and have always turned them down. For me it would be just like giving the pattern away for free and that is not my call to make. I would think that you could do a twitch stream as long as you obfuscate elements of the pattern so that someone else could not knit it from just watching you knit it. It sounds like you have multiple WIPs going on, maybe work on one section of one and then swap it out for different WIPs. Then do important sections off camera and just rotate through that way, always leaving out stuff?
@@WatchBarbaraKnit no one has a good answer. its just so gray. my intention is more "i'm making a thing and you can watch" not "i'm making a thing and heres how im doing it". i understand intent doesnt super matter. like you mentioned construction of a functional object cant be copy written so how to do specific stitches or how a piece is assembled (out of context) sounds like fair game
I just wanted to ask a question about pattern designer, When doing the pattern can we use the design of someone else's pattern and just write it up differently so I can say it was mine own to publish or is that illegal
As I said in the video, the only thing that is copyrighted is the actual written and charted instructions. But there are risks involved in getting a reputation of knocking off other people's designs. Just because something isn't illegal ... doesn't mean it is good or right.
What if you saved a free pattern from a website that is no longer in existence? I belong to a blog site and sometimes people are looking for patterns and I would give them a link if there was one. This instance, the original website no longer existed so I shared a pdf saved version that I use. Another subscriber YELLED at me. I did not sell, nor benefit from sharing the file. There was no website to go to get pattern. Should the person looking for the pattern just be out of luck?
Unfortunately yes, that person should be out of luck. Unless the pattern is old enough that it has fallen out of copyright the only person who has the right to distribute it is the original author. With the right to distribute also comes the right to remove from distribution. I don't think yelling is productive tho.
when I sent you the first question I forgot to say for example ( doing like owl eye stitch and ewrap in my pattern) is it legal to say owl eye or do I just tell how to do the stitch. Is it legal
I honestly cannot give you actual legal advice. But if you are talking about a stitch motif, those cannot be copyrighted.
Thank you. I learned a few points! There's one scenario you didn't cover: a loan. Here's an example: "My girlfriend has a pattern she loaned to me. She didn't photocopy it. She loaned me the original for a limited time. Did she break copyright?" (I've personally had a girlfriend ask to borrow a knitting book. Can't I loan her my book? Is this wrong? EXAMPLE: She asks to borrow a DVD from me and will return it to me on Monday. Isn't that the same thing?)
If is a hard copy pattern, book, or magazine then it's fine. If it is a print out of a digital pattern then the rules are different. I don't have a definitive answer for you but I know you cannot "loan" a digital pattern to someone.
@@WatchBarbaraKnit Thank you very much.
What if I bought your pattern, made it and then sold it to someone giving you credit for the design, but charging for my work knitting the item? I wouldn’t be claiming the pattern, but selling my ability to make the pattern.
You don’t even have to give me any credit, although that is a lovely thought. What you do with the product of your own hands is your business (at least in the US).