@@-xirx- substitute "vegan" for "non-cannibal" into atun-shei's original comment. It's the perennial joke whenever veganism or animal rights are brought up
@@-xirx- yah what arisily said. Every non-vegan excitedly reuses the joke as if it hasn't already been smeared all over the internet. In reality, the joke and others like it serve to keep animal rights activism servile, contained and controlled. It's easy to overlook what somebody is saying if you can make a joke about them. Nothing against the teller of the joke, it's just something I think is important to expose whenever a joke like this is used. This goes for any sort of joke for any social justice movement.
He was an absolute legend, and a personal hero of mine. He lived only a few kilometers from my current home. I saw his name on a few statues and street names growing up but I only thought to look him up as an adult... If anybody wants to discover a criminally under-remembered hero I strongly suggest you read his Wikipedia page.
I think the original quote was "and sin young man is when you treat people as things" from Carpe Jugulum, from Granny Weatherwax to the Omnian priest Mightily Praiseworthy are thee who Exalteth Om Oats when they're close to dying in a storm somewhere in Uberwald on the way to confront the Vampires. It was very important to the overall themes of the story, of which there were a great deal. The vampires were in many ways a commentary on colonialism given they attempted to Colonise Lancre in the name of progress and modernization book.
@@seekingabsolution1907 From my most recent read-through, it is in "I Shall Wear Midnight" in the form I quoted. I would not be surprised if it was also found in a slightly altered version elsewhere. Most certainly it came from Granny Weatherwax.
Doesn't that make homosexuality look... bad? Especially considering the obvious subtext of the film regarding capitalism and carnism. I don't get how this is a positive thing..
@@AlphaGarg You completely missed the argument. The cannibals in _Ravenous_ _are_ monsters, but gay people have historically and to this day (especially trans people) are made to _feel_ like monsters.
@@AtunSheiFilms oh yea i guess while youre here amazing video that made me re-investigate the relationship i have to veganism & meat eating or whatever.
15:11-15:21 "When a Wampanoag killed a wolf he thanked the wolf for feeding his family, when a Massachusetts bay farmer sat down for pork he thanked god for giving him dominion over pigs." Damn, that line sent a chill down my spine. Great work Atun-Shei!
@@unkmonk1as human minds we're all reflections of the small parts of the universe we've experienced. The universe has personality to it, even if only we can recognize our own within it.
The story of Babe disturbingly reminds me of the story of Felix Mendelson. Both examples of a lucky member of a group that is oppressed. Babe was chosen to be saved because he was useful and had a particular skill that granted him emancipation from death. Mendelson was a talented Jewish musician that was granted rights for being special. He advocated for Jewish emancipation in Prussia because of the inherent value of a person and not because everyone is as talented as him. Babe wished safety and freedom for all animals for the same reason. He observes others and does as the sheep do to be more important than the sheep. This gives him freedom because he is unique. This doesn't save every animal and the film ends. This is similar to Mendelson who spent his entire life showing that Jews can be talented and equals just to die without Jewish emancipation being enacted in his country. A free Jew, but the only one in his country.
Ehh, Jews were free in Prussia and some families were highly regarded. Mendelssohn, who with his siblings were converted to Christianity by their father, was applauded highly during his lifetime. Later National socialists disregarded him due to his Jewish heritage. Seems like you fell for their propaganda. Work on your general knowledge before posting, please
It reminds me of animal farm, only instead of being critical of communism, it's critical of capitalism and consumerism. I haven't seen that movie since i was a young child. Might need to watch it again lol.
@@MrNebelschatten I don’t think a person needs to know the history of Mendelssohn in order to draw a comparison there. It’s probably pretty uncommon for people to know a composer and the history around them, so i thought it was cool that someone actually drew the line there. It was kind of you to clarify the National Socialists (not Nazi’s, or German “National Socialists”? Prussia was mentioned, so I’m guessing they’re different, since you didn’t use the term Nazi) had disregarded him for being a Jew. I know little of history, but you’d probably have more people looking to hear about this if you didn’t knock people for mistaking things. Also, i thought Mendelssohn kept his surname despite his family being Christian and changing to Bartholdy?
There is an element I feel you missed or only lightly touched on, possibly because it is only really visible in developing societies these days. The social status of meat. The diet of the peasant can be very low in meat, to such an extent that many in developing nations are very defensive of their meat eating: rich people eat meat and they are no longer poor. In a weird way there was probably a time when the increased availability of meat was seen as a form of economic liberation. In fact the Soviet Union was very proud of its agricultural advancements during the mid cold war: the proletariat no longer confined to the meager sustenance of the serf.
Great point, I know someone who grew up in Poland during the cold war, and he considers western european people’s insistence on eating meat everyday as showing off. Meat is a luxury product in a way.
@Piney Colada It absolutely is. Large-scale factory farming is less than a century old. A lot of our ancestors would be amazed that we eat meat more than once a week, let alone with every meal.
thank you for pointing it out already. Especially in rural areas even in industrialised countries meat-as-status-symbol has been an important factor. Inter-/Post-War scarcity and food regulations lead to a rise in prestige for example also in Germany, where i'm from. Story time! My great-grandfather, born in 1900 was known for whistling his tune of "potatoe soup, potatoe soup and a nice big roast on sundayyy!" for everyone around our rural town of salt miners. To my mother, born 50years later, this was a sentiment that led them through the time of the "Wirtschaftswunder" in which availability and consumption of meat was a direct indicator of wealth & status. So when again 60 years later i came along and said that i wouldn't eat any more meat this was met with the expectable defensiveness and the implied question if everything was alright with me, if i had financial difficulties and the likes, which took some time to work out - everything worked out fine in the end^^ - so tl;dr: yes, totally agree to your point, also in highly industrialised nations. (regional & historical factors do apply heavily)
Indeed, and that's something one can see at work in other socialist countries like the PRC even to-day. BTW, Colonial Era and early Republican Argentina and Uruguay were noted for being exceptions to the general rule about meat being for the rich, since beef was the staple diet of the gauchos and others in the Uruguayan and Argentine pampas, with vegetables and grain, except for yerba mate tea, being relatively rare in their diet. Argentina also had beef drying, salting, and jerking establishments that did all of those to export salted, jerked, and dried beef to other parts of the Americas, especially to feed slaves in places like Cuba, during that era. One of the things that gets to me at times, and am a Yank, is the automatic attribution of virtue or vice by one group or another, and their inherent superiority over others as a result of any number of factors, diet included, over others, or what they believe to be their inherent superiority over others. This is where Carnists(a new term to me 'till seeing this), Vegans, Capitalists, Marxist-Leninists, Fascists, you name it, drive me nuts, because they assume they, and they alone, are righteous, right, and superior, when history and current practise show most of 'em aren't in one way or another. Good insight by Atun-Shei about the nature of on-line monetisation and fame, and how fame and all that comes with it, is often the spur and failing of many involved with it. Have my share of such aspirations, but those aren't about to happen, and probably just as well. Not everyone can or should be the Smartest Person in the Room, especially all of the time, I think. Anyway, I've rabbited on long enough, and good video and good insight above.
So firstly, I'm going back to veganism because...I just. Can't after this. Second of all, I don't think it's over analyzing at all, seems like all of this is kinda just below surface level
I think the idea of the reluctant cannibal in the film also has some more connections to modern western living that could be looked at. When I did my intro to food history class at uni one of the things we talked about was the many many was industrialization has chaged food paths and access. The connection I made in regards to this was the way in which systematic realities make it hard for people in many places and situations to be able to make healthy and ethical food choices due to a lack of time, access, energy, facilities or numerous other factors. In the film the reluctant cannibal could find other options, but the reality of the situation means cannibalism is the easy simple choice, and to not make thay choice is a hard thing so they just try not to look into the reality of the choices they make.
Vincent Woodard wrote a book on documented cannibalism of enslaved peoples in the United States. A very, very hard read, but entirely relevant to this video.
'the delectable nergro'? Just left a comment above when he mention white people never ate the enslaved at 17:18, very disturbing topic but hope he checks it out.
The book is largely about the politics of slavery, rather than actual cannibalism despite what the title says. A posthumous book, about how slave masters were secretly gay for their slaves, shouldnt have got such rave reviews as it did
WOW, not just one but TWO of my unhinged tumblr posts finding their way into this video...I feel honored. I haven't seen your original video but I may just have to now...
@@vincentfegley6068 these days, the people who still choose to be on Tumblr are pretty self-aware about it. It's the place you go because you're too weird to be anywhere else.
You are more likely to get prion disease from getting old... And your body just folding a protein wrong... Or eating beef, mutton, goat and likely soon... Venison
@@Goran1138like the ancient "Great Mother"/Cybele cultists in ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt and the near East... self castration as the initiation ceremony.
So, the conclussions I have reached from your analisys, are as follows: 1-"Ravenous" is the best film in the world. 2-"Babe" is the second best film in the world.
I knew in the back of my mind that the meat industry is a brutal, unforgiving thing, but I wasn’t prepared to have it shown to me in this manner. It’s appreciated but whooooo boy that’s a hard bit to get through
I’m with you man. I’m sitting here like, who do I throw money at, who do I bother on the phone constantly, who do I vote for to get this shit to a point I know the animal I’m eating lived a full life with lots of good feed and didn’t suffer in the end. If that can be done I can live with it, until we start growing this stuff in a lab or something.
Its awful. I'm still unsure about complete veganism though. Being complicit with the meant industry is absolutely evil. If all meat consumption is bad, then are cultures which rely on meat in a non-industrial fashion that's respectful of animals as bad as the meat industry? Are tigers by nature worse animals because they don't show compassion to their prey? Weirdly enough then, I support and respect animal rights activists and vegans even though I don't know about the absolute axioms of their philosophy, because their actions will limit and hopefully eliminate the normalized mass-cruelty to animals. But despite not agreeing with their philosophy fully, this still doesn't justify my consumption of meat, as it is produced by that industry.
Because I grew up in a developing country, where the killing of fowl for dinner would sometimes take place in our backyard, I have always been cognizant of where our food comes from and what that entails. While I am not going vegan or vegetarian anytime soon, I still recognize the costs a heavily carnivore (especially beef) diet takes upon the environment. This is no doubt helped by meat industry propaganda, which pushes absurd (and unhealthy) meat consumption to Westerners.
@@rasheed7934Actually an omnivore, but I sense a degree of reticence on your part that is entirely unnecessary. Bottom line: the people pushing vegetarianism are pushing an abnormal (for humans) and unhealthy lifestyle.
This is semi-tangential, but one of the interesting aspects of the meat-forward American diet, especially in the modern day, boils down to the absolutely horrid quality of supermarket produce for the comparatively expensive price. The vast majority of produce in box stores are underripe, overripe, watery, or sour because it has to travel hundreds or more often thousands of miles to make it to Walmart shelves. The quality of meat doesn't degrade nearly as bad over those distances, and you get a lot more calories per dollar. But pull back that veneer even a little bit - roadside sweet corn, neighbor-grown heirloom tomatoes, apple varieties local to your area, PAWPAWS - and you realize exactly how poor the produce quality really is on the whole in this country. And for that matter, the fact that WASPs thought their English meat-eating ways was an aspect of superiority is darkly ironic. All classic "American" food is immigrant and/or Black food, _especially_ the meat. Brisket (Jewish), BBQ (Black American), hotdog/sausages (German), jambalaya (French & Black), and I could go on forever.
A Jewish brisket is cooked more like a pot roast than a barbecue brisket but that's just me and my Jewish background. But you've got a point. A lot of those dishes are made from other parts of the animals. Still meat, but not "the best meat" of these fussy English aristocrats. They'd take the best, most expensive parts of an already expensive animal and discard the rest. That's why the dinner is only steaks! They reach such a level of carnism that not only will they consume, they will be fussy about it. The rest of the cow? Who cares. They want the juiciest, biggest, meatiest piece of the pie and leave the rest to be rendered into peasant meals.
I just realized how fortunate I am to live on a country where Open air Markets are still a thing and their existence are subsidized the the government. It isn't as comfortable as a Supermarket, and very much not as "clean" looking. But With easy access to open air market, I can get almost every single local produce fresh. And when I went to the Main city of my place, I am surprised by the lack of open air markets there and where supermarkets thrive. And yeah, most of the plant based stiff there isn't as fresh despite the place being more comfortable.
@samuelkatz1124 the upper class wanting to eat the best part of the animal is common across cultures, its not just an English thing. Everyone wants to eat prime rib, not everyone can afford it, meanwhile everyone can afford bull testicles, but not everyone wants it, so prime rib is expensive and testicles cheap
When someone can write a video essay that teaches you something beautiful, uncomfortable, and powerful, and have said video essay be mostly about gay cannibals also, that person is a master of essayism.
I'm so glad you brought up The Terror... it is my Ravenous. I'm so insane over it (guilty of being one of the tumblr girlies). This whole video was just crazy good-- made me reconsider food and eating in a whole new way, just amazing. Wow. I am never not gonna be thinking of this.
I subscribe to the idea that if media that has a message makes you uncomfortable, you should think about the message. Your essay has put me in that uncomfortable spot of self reflection. Thank you, and also, f**k you lol
Ditto. I subscribe to the idea of eating animal products that are "certified humane", but when pro-vegan content is presented in an intelligent, provocative way, I'm always game to spend that time reflecting and re-evaluating. (And ditto specifically with paying attention to messages that make you uncomfortable.)
My personal favorite "fun little detail" about the Mexican-American War is that one of the baloney excuses for the war, that America needed to take control of the border region because Mexico couldn't bring to heel 'the powerful native nations' there, was actually more true than the people who uttered it probably thought. The Comanche for instance were certainly not going to be Mexicans or Americans as long as they could fight back. Which they would ultimately be unable to do as they numbered only a few thousand due to impact of disease and the encroaching settlers from the East eventually vastly exceeded the ecological carrying capacity their old hunting way of life required. An interesting element in this is actually regarding the dealings between the Lakota people and the federal government, since the Lakota were also keenly aware of what they'd require in land to maintain their traditional way of life, but tragically the only wealth they had was space and Washington needed to cross that space in order to build railroads to the West so conflict became inevitable. Regarding meat and history, an interesting small part of a larger whole is as part of the Meiji era project to construct a modern state and empire in Japan: One of the ways in which Japan strived to be recognized as being equal to white "standard of civilization" was adoption and encouragement of eating meat. The emperor Meiji, at the age of 19, ate a steak as propaganda for eating beef as part of a government project for Japan as a nation to reach "civilization and enlightenment." While it would be exaggerated to say Japan was totally vegan for over a thousand years prior to that event, eating meat was a taboo that required spiritual cleansing until the decision to become a society of meat-eaters.
@@ericcampbell503 I'm not enough of an expert to say if the religious taboo included seafood, but as I alluded to it wasn't an absolute ban either way so I'd imagine a fishing village on the coast would have kept to their staple diet. As much as the government pushed eating beef as a part of the modernization project, it obviously wasn't part of the diet for a lot of people because of high levels of urban poverty in Meiji era Japan. A related curio about history of food in Japan was the high incidence of beriberi in Japan in late 19th century and especially among IJN sailors of poor backgrounds who took the opportunity to "eat like the rich" by eating only white rice in the navy, white rice being a military staple because of it being easier to storage and preserve than white rice. The status of white rice as fine dining made it a ticking time bomb for Japanese society as industrialization made white rice much more available to society, but navy doctor Kanehiro Takaki figured out the connection between nutrition and the disease. There's plenty of other interesting cases of people doing something detrimental just out of satiating their tastes, such as Swedish farmers refusing to learn Finnish and Baltic methods of grain preservation because they thought the taste wasn't as good (the smoke-drying method would have greatly improved preservation of meager Nordic harvests), or the Londoners who traveled several blocks to drink (unknowingly, this whole case was how doctor John Snow proved cholera was caused by a waterborne bacteria) from a cholera-contaminated water pump because the water according to them tasted better.
I still can't see how Japanese society totally abstained for eating meat because of "religious taboo". There are Buddhists in Japan and they are quite a lot of them and I can see Japanese Buddhists to not eat meat But for the others Maybe less of a religious taboo and more of a Cultural sanctions. Creating a Pasture isn't easy in the limited spaces of Sengoku Jidai era Japan. And losing one after a Warlord sacked a village housing one would be economically catastrophic for anyone. My guess is that, just like in Rome and Medieval Britain, meat eating is reserved for special occasions, for nobilities, really expensive, or all of them... So people just don't eat pastured meat as much.
The emotional rollercoaster this sent me on from listening respectfully to getting all fired up about capitalism to being distraught over the meat industry to mild hysteria upon hearing "Boyd goes full power bottom".
I watched the first Ravenous video about a year ago and afterwards watched the film. It instantly became my hands down favorite piece of cinema. It is by far one of the most bold faced unapologetic excoriations of American expansionism, colonialism, capitalism, and militarism I have seen and it does this so artistically. It’s not a ham fisted manifesto of a movie, but a piece of art with skewering social commentary. And it does all this as a western too. That quintessential genre of lionizing the American myth turned on its head to show that myth for what it really is.
Great thought-provoking video, only note I have is as to "certain animals" not being allowed in the house being because of simple prejudice… I’m a hobby farmer with a lot of livestock pets. We only eat eggs (when we can find them) and the chickens and goats and sheep can wander about the whole place as they wish. The horses have to stay fenced in pastures because they are huge and tend to get into trouble. The reason most hooved animals aren’t house pets is the house-training factor. They simply physically do not have enough sphincter control and so pee and poo indiscriminately. The sheep and goats aren’t as bad as they poop dry pellets, so when they are sick we can bring them in the laundry room with a tarp on the floor and shavings to absorb moisture. You can’t do this with cows, they are walking diarrhea machines. Horses plop mounds. Even the little ones. Pigs can be house trained, but a huge part of piggy life is rooting and wallowing in dirt. Keeping them indoors most of the time isn’t the ideal life for them. Chickens are the messiest birds I’ve ever seen (and I once had zebra finches that pooped five feet straight up a wall). So. Much. Poop. Most Carnivora (the taxonomic group) are much more amenable to bringing inside, along with various rodents. In the past people used to make houses with barns in them, but that’s not really advisable from a hygiene standpoint. Parasites, too. Large livestock shed a lot more worms than dogs or cats, and I’ve had a lot of experience in that department. So basically just saying there’s good reasons why certain animals have to live in their own house. Doesn’t mean we love them less, my Shetland wether Sheepie was one of the coolest animals I’ve ever known and his ashes are next to my bed because I can’t bring myself to bury them just yet. 😔
A side note to separating pets from livestock. Dogs and cats are predators, pigs are prey. At some point, in some way, a pig will exhibit prey behavior and your dog might attack and kill them, but cats are predators and don't give off that behavior. This is why you do not keep pigs and dogs in the same house as pets.
One thing: the male carnivore/female vegetarian dichotomy is a very American (maybe Anglosphere) phenomenon. In most cultures, a more balanced diet is consumed, but any woman worth her grandmother's recipes will look at you cockeyed if you declare within earshot that you abstain from all meat.
I'm pretty sure that the so-called dichotomy doesn't exist outside the heads of some upper class feminists. I genuinely loved this video, even though I disagreed with aspects of it, I cannot deny its excellent production quality and perceptive analysis.
also, irish, french, italian, spanish and asian people definitively ate fish and seafood, I am sure those are meat and 9 times out of 10 french won against the english, then again, eugenics can be funny like that.
Also "No Ethical Consumption Under Cannibalism" NEEDS to be a shirt in your merch store (the irony of this sentiment is only barely outweighed by the awesomeness of the quote.)
All of this is true and fantastic, but absolutely nothing can diminish my love for Col. Ives' final line, delivered from the clutches of that bear trap.
@@alisaurus4224 Bear has been floating around pop culture since the 70's and was well known by the mid 90's especially in Hollywood. Obviously neither man is literally a bear there but one is definitely dom coded and that coding lines up with being a bear a dom looking make a sub out someone who winds up on top and in control in the end ,beartrap indeed😁
Atun-Shei: Hey, want to see an hour long leftist critique of a historical cannibalism movie you’ve never watched? Me: Shit wendigo, that’s all you had to say!
"Get out of your comfort zone, stop studying Hannibal's tactics and start studying the uncomfortable, if we are to have true perspective of the past". I think your quote went along somewhere along the lines of this, really cool video!
I know this will probably never be seen by atun or gain traction, but I just wanted to say how important this video was for the LGBT+ community-or at least to me. As someone part of the community who is also very interested in history, it's disheartening to see the amount of historical creators touch or avoid queer topics. I know that Ravenous is just a movie, but your dedication in analyzing it in a way that was not only brilliantly put together and well researched, but also respectful-- in which I mean that the topic of "gayness" wasn't seen as just a joke and that it did have a part in the film's plot. Anyway, I know I'm not good with words but I hope you sorta understand what I'm trying to say. Thank you so much again and happy pride month
The field of history is deeply slanted against us queer people and it's genuinely so tragic because of how much queerness there is in history and humanity in general.
Crikey, I wonder how long it took for this one to get demonetised... in earnest this channel just gets better and better, and this has absolutely left me with some things to really think about.
May I just say that Neal McDonough has a gift for finding lesser known but exceptional films to participate in? Seeing him confirms atun-shies hypothesis
"Can't wait to sit down with a nice ham sandwich to watch this insightful video of a movie I've never seen" - My innocent unspoiled self about an hour or so ago
Tbh, if you were to send this video to an average western straight dude-bro, and force them to watch all of it, then there would be more holes in their worldview than a tree that went through the Battle of Gettysburg.
@@pufffincrazy5275Well I'm a regular guy living in a western country and the way I see it alot of what he said is overly dramatizing. My world veiw is intact I'm sure to your disappointment, despite watching every last second of this when it came out I still disagree.
@@rogerkeleshian2215 Okay, then you get to be in the same camp as everyone else who justifies slavery, mass murder, rape and oppression. If that's the life you choose for yourself, own it.
So happy you made a longer video on this movie. As someone who in undergrad was obsessed with regeneration through violence in American Lit., I wish that I knew about this film back then!
I'm Muslim and witness halaal butchering sometimes. It's sad and a reflection of the state of (what I think this video has taught me) my carnist conditioning that I didn't react inside. I thought some things in this video were a bit of a stretch and I don't even necessarily consider myself left-wing, but I watched this whole thing, subscribed and liked it. You moved me. The in-n-out ""stungun"" is no or less more brutal than hearing the set of very particular goat screams as half its throat is cut alive. I considered Americans pressing a gun to its head "more humane" for some bizarre reason, when internally I believe that they are intelligent individuals who deserve their lives. I think the video is an Aussie slaughterhouse. I find it difficult to get the necessary protein I need for my growth goals, as well as difficulty in breaking my eating routine... a trait of my autism. Could you tell from the length of this comment? lol This video inspired me to actively give my energy towards researching and figuring out where to purchase the necessary foods for these goals in a vegan manner. Like, actually properly committing to several changes. My sister was a vegan and ardently refused to take part in family meals, weddings etc because they are almost always meat with no vegan options, but she was never pushy about it. She passed away in 2016 and I think I should follow this particular ideal. Thank-you so much for making me see this clearly my friend.
I'm sorry to hear she isn't with us. Good for you to think on it, think about how our cultures imprint on us the 'need' to eat meat or not be part of our culture and society. I've been mostly vegetarian for 35 years (ate meat for around 6-8 years in my 20s, as I was fed up of the difficulty and stigma). But I went back to it when i started to think more about how my food was made.. I do find it hard to see others that I care about, and love, eat meat. Knowing that they either suppress or simply do not feel the same respect and sorrow that I feel for the animals that went into their meal. Good on you taking a second look and thinking about one of the most defining decisions we can make about ourselves in life.
The other possibility is that you intellectually recognize that, 𝓳𝓾𝓼𝓽 𝓵𝓲𝓴𝓮 𝓮𝓿𝓮𝓻𝔂 𝓸𝓽𝓱𝓮𝓻 𝓪𝓷𝓲𝓶𝓪𝓵 𝓸𝓷 𝓹𝓵𝓪𝓷𝓮𝓽 𝓮𝓪𝓻𝓽𝓱, you are part of a food chain hierarchy; and that eating the flesh of other animals (as opposed to, say, killing for sport or sadism) is perfectly logical, rational, healthy, and a sin-free part of your inherent nature.
@Michael Anderson There is nothing natural about factory farms, convenience stores and processed meats. The only natural part of this food chain of yours is your heavy coping when confronted with the ethical ramifications of your intellectual inaction.
Im happy you are making the change. it take quite some strength to confront ones shortcomings. As a tip maybe for the protein. there probably are some vegan protein powders where you live, at least where im at, they have pretty good stats. other than that lentils are very high in protein (although you fart like a mfer from them).
@@KArchine I have been struggling with the same problem, concerning close family. I dont know why but its getting harder to look at them compassionatly rather than in anger
So i've been a fan for years now and my appreciation for your work has only grown lately. But being an anarchist, socialist, disabled and bisexual trans woman means I always, always have to be on the lookout for that Moment when it turns out "Oh nice, yet another artist who wants me dead or dying." It's not a nice place to be in, especially since i try to learn and think about what everyone has to say, even that kind of person. But regardless, that mindset has in the past lead me to be a little on edge whenever I watch your videos, waiting for that Moment, especially since you have made it a point to not talk about modern politics more than is necessary. But with this video, and in the other talking about the queer club fire, you genuinely surprised me with the frankness and conviction that you sympathize and empathize with the unpersoned people who died and lived through that fire and that you spoke about the inherent vampirism of capitalism. This goes double for the way you doubled down as Billy Yank This might be a silly thing to say, but thank you for making the videos that you do, I think I'll look forward to them for as long as you make them
Post Script... Johnny Reb should be redeemed, finally put away the rebel flag, and him and Billy Yank should kiss. Once the last episode comes out there's like 50/50 chance im writing fanfic about them.
Really excellent video as always. Food is such a fascinating aspect of human society, and sociologically speaking, I think people fail to truly appreciate how meaningful it is to our perceptions. For most westerners at least, we spend almost the first two decades with zero control or agency in the things we consume. We eat what our parents/guardians serve us. We have no idea what's healthy or unhealthy. We simply eat others put in front of us. And this aspect of socialization is formative. Food is culture, but not everyone is able to put into words just how meaningful it is. They might be quick to anger when you break some food-norm, but they might not be capable of the kind of introspection required to understand why they are upset. If you're the vegetarian at the thanksgiving dinner table, you have felt what it means to go against the culture that raised you. People would never state this in such stark terms, but denying common foods is not entirely unlike denying a religion, a system of social organization, or some other foundational belief. I guess my point is this - to the omnivores, interrogate your beliefs. Be willing to appreciate the argument of the moral vegan, and even if you do not change, perhaps you might consider that just because something is as aspect of your culture doesn't mean its inherently good. And to the vegans - when you get upset that the world isn't moving at your pace on this issue, understand exactly what it is that you are asking your friends/family/peers to do - You are asking them to give up a meaningful aspect of their culture (and not just that, but an aspect of their culture that has been etched in stone since long before they had the agency to choose for themselves). that sort of thing doesn't just "change" for most people... even when it should. When it comes to all matters of critical theory/systems-thinking, I can't help but think of this Wallace quote - There are these two young fish swimming along and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says “Morning, boys. How’s the water?” And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes “What the hell is water?” Help the "carnists" understand that they are swimming in water, a system that can be understood and critiqued. But understand that society isn't all that interested in teaching us to know what "water" is, and is much more interested in the simple fact that we continue swimming. For myself, I have not given up meat entirely... but my patterns of consumption have changed as I've gotten older and begun to think about the moral value of animals and the exploitative nature of capitalism.
I am perfectly conscious that I eat living things, you do too, I am perfectly conscious that by eating I kill things, you do too. Honestly I don't think I have ever been not conscious of that, well at least since I became old enough as a child to be conscious of the nature of things. I find the amount of mental gymnastics people do to distance themselves from the reality of death to be ridiculous and somewhat absurd. Everything lives by killing other things or feeding on things that died in someway or another. The nice Little cow is going to be eaten by wolves in the wild it's a pray animal. In time those same wolves are going to die and they bodies are going to fertilize the soil the cow eats. This is not to say I encourage the unethical treatment of animals, on the contrary there's a growing movement of ethical meat eaters encouraging lessened consumption of meat and ethical non intensive cattle raising. Vegetarianism, similar to many such excesses is not even ecologically convenient...
I don’t see capitalism as an exploitive means of economics, rather it is perhaps the best method humanity currently has for dealing with the inevitable issue of scarcity. All other economic systems haven either lead to suffering on a large scale ie feudalism or mass death. iE communism/socialism. As long as scarcity of resources is an issue for humanity their will always be inherent inequality.
@@gamingforever9121lmao we currently produce enough food to feed the entire world. We enforce scarcity currently by having a monetary barrier to access this food. This leads to hundreds of thousands of POUNDS of food being thrown away DAILY because it has not been bought. Capitalism benefits from this artificial scarcity.
@@prince_of_cats yes and the reason why we have an over abundance of food is because of capitalism encouraging farmers to produce more due to monetary incentives. Communism/socialism does not solve the problem of scarcity/supply instead it makes those issues worse every single time it’s been implemented. See the USSR China in the 50s and North Korean now.
@@prince_of_cats scarcity is not enforced by capitalism as it relates to food you’d have a point if you had mentioned the Diamond market which actually is artificially restricted to create false value. But when it comes to food that food waste in the US is do more to people not buying more food then they actually need as an example take bananas. Any banana that as even the slightest blemish will not be sold and is thrown out that is entirely because people have expectations when it comes to food expectations that the market provides for and so food is wasted.
It’s truly astonishing for me how absurd were believes of 19th century ideologues of anglo-saxon supremacy. As a foreigner I am however deeply fascinated with it. And all of your videos depicting origins of american culture and history. Thank you for that video and all of your work Atun-Shei. I am glad that my adventure with american history started partly thanks to your channel.
“You can tell we’re superior because we have developed highly sophisticated methods of bloodshed.” -The underlying implication of white supremacy and imperialism
Don't find it fascinating, find it disgusting, backward, inbred and backwater, after all, it is an "ideology" - if it even can be called that- which worked towards the destruction of the world.
I watched your previous video when it came out, and it made me re-watch Ravenous (as I was too young to really catch the "subtext" when I first watched it). This is such an excellent materialist dissection of the films themes. Bravo.
Listening to the reading about women feeling like pieces of meat during sexual assault, I remember a tape being lifted from the serial killer David Parker Ray where he literally calls one of his victims which he had drugged as "As far as I’m concerned, you’re a pretty piece of meat, to be used and exploited". Eerie.
@@kingofcards9516 Right? I always make sure to distinguish actual analysis of a piece from my personal tastes or opinions. You are totally valid and entitled to your disliking of something, but it grinds my gears when you act like that means they are poorly written or somehow bad storytelling.
@@kingofcards9516 you literally spread fascist propaganda on your channel. You have an entire playlist of it. All you do is misrepresent your opponents
It's a good thing I finished watching this before I commented. I'm glad that I didn't feel talked down to throughout. Confronted for sure, but I didn't feel condescended to, which I think is a massive benefit of your approach. Much like your Dracula video I'll be thinking about this one, and the points in it, long after I've closed my browser. Maybe it's just my approach to viewing this, but I feel like I'm being invited to think more and talk more than I'm being told to think in a certain way.
My favorite book is another that focuses a lot on drawing connections between vampirism & queerness in terms of how they are socially experienced-it’s so interesting to see how extensive of a body of work there is on that subject (and similar ones)!
This movie is so good. There's an action scene in it where the dude is just rolling down a hill, but it's so tense because of everything happening. What a great film
Finally got around to buying and watching this film after having it thoroughly spoiled by your two videos. I loved it, wish I had seen it beforehand but thank you for bringing it to attention and adding more context than anyone could ask for. Makes me wish Antonia was still around making movies.
Incredible, you've made incredibly strong arguments, and convinced me, not only to genuinely consider changing my diet and advocacy, but also why Ravenous is one of my favorite films, once again. I would love to see this kind of thing for my other favorite film, The Lighthouse
This was a very visceral video to watch! I'm still chewing on the Concepts you presented. I'm gonna be thinking about them for a while. That rant about chasing after the almighty dollar, I want to inject it into my vein! Excellent as always!
Freshman year at Emerson College, I had to show an inspirational clip in my media arts class; I showed the Manifest Destiny scene. I found out the next day from the lab teacher that I freaked out my professor. Ravenous is the best, and the soundtrack alone is a masterpiece. Great Video.
@@grmpEqweer hating Nazis is a universal good. Bread tubing is not a universal good, more of a political annoyance. Like the “skeptic community” and the incels. Bad people on the internet complaining at the cameras
I can put myself in the historical mindset of the individuals who perpetrated these objectively horrific atrocities... but I cannot for the life of me understand the mindset of someone who would more or less spoil the entire first season of The Terror with no warning whatsoever. The world truly is full of monsters.
lol based for making the comparison between manifest destiny and lebensraum. for some reason nobody knows that lebensraum was literally just germans reading american manifest destiny manifestos and translating them. i wonder why
Wow! This video left me in a crumpled sniffling ball in the corner of my room trying to budget out how much it would cost to replace every animal product in my house with vegan alternatives. 10/10 Atun-Shei Films, favorite video yet!
Am I a bad person for thinking of how good a burger sounds? But yeah damn good video, I feel like you can really see an increase in production value and competence.
I spend about $120 a week for two people. I do a lot of home cooking, which helps cuts costs. I could probably spend less, but there are some items we like to have around like dairy free ice cream and chips. Aldi has a lot of good options if there's one near you for switching some items out if you want to have a go at it.
There’s actually some really good tasting meat alternative substitutes now - even ones with out soy (I hate fake soy meat. So gross) but overall including more beans and legumes in your diet is the way to go to not have any deficiencies. If you actually want to try to go vegetarian or vegan, don’t do it all at once. Start by replacing on thing at a time until that thing becomes a habit and normal. Then go to the next. I’m still having trouble finding a good replacement for eggs and cheese that aren’t gross or cost a fortune.
In an ironic turn of events, nothing makes me want to eat beef less than being described by Dr. Beard as a ‘beef eater’ (cuz wtf no), especially in context
I was watching this while eating a bacon/mushroom sandwich and having no qualms with all the cannibalism, but then you brought up the CZcamsr growth vortex and I that was the thing that made me take a break while eating. Dunno what that says, but I totally feel yah on that
Every perfectly paced and edited Atun-Shei video is subtly trying to get me to throw up at any of the dark subjects he covers, this is one is no different and I had to take multiple pauses throughout. Excellent work, I am eagerly (dreading) the next one
I cannot believe that I have been watching your videos religiously for years now and I just realized today that I was not subscribed. Fantastic media analysis, probably one of the best that I've ever seen. I love your work, and you are doing a great job at it. Please, please, please continue.
I’ve probably seen this movie 15x. It’s just that fantastic. Even now, I’ll listen to the soundtrack and get goosebumps every time those clumsy strings start.
I don't really think there is any cognitive dissonance in saying the killing and eating of animals is a morally neutral act, while considering factory farms to be cruel and evil
99.9% of animal products in America come from factory farms. The simplest, easiest way to resist that cruelty and evil is to refuse to partake in it any further.
@@AtunSheiFilms This is true, for sure, but at the same time more than half of the clothes that are sold in the US, over two third of all electronics devices not to mention all the other goods are made in China and South East Asia (particularly Bangladesh for clothes) by peoples who're working under what could be at best referred to as slavery of the wage kind. They're also the same peoples who're only now finally starting to get access to meat as an important part of their food sources. I feel that humans are more morally important to support than animals, both in terms of what actions we as everyday peoples can do at our level here in the west and how peoples in developing countries can survive.
@@AtunSheiFilms I feel like I'm back on r/anarchism with this... And I would like to point out that this isn't exactly true. (And I'm not just talking about that percentage, I can see that's just for effect). While it's true that the majority of the animal products consumed in the US come from factory farms, the majority of animal products produced globally are not produced in the countries where they are consumed. Capitalism being what it is, if the majority of people who could afford to were to stop consuming animal products, the farmers current producing animal products would not stop producing those animal products. It's an industry worth hundreds of billions, they can afford to retool their process to serve markets where people do not have the luxury of refusing cheap food. Poor people in the west would continue to eat meat, simply for lack of choice, especially when, with wealthier people no longer competing for it and offering 'prime cuts' to them for premium prices no longer being a sound financial strategy, it would become a lot cheaper. And there would suddenly be a massive growth in western dairy farmers and cattle ranchers who (pretended they) found a conscience and decided to end world hunger by selling their wares cheaply in food-insecure areas of Africa, South America and Asia. Farming practices, of course, would become even more cruel as a result of having to cut costs. The most effective way to resist that cruelty and evil is to end capitalism so that farmers are no longer incentivised to put profit over the welfare of living things. The most effective way to resist that cruelty and evil *within* capitalism (insofar as that is even possible), is to be aware of what you consume and insist that you will only consume animal products that are produced with as little cruelty as possible (none at all being, of course, ideal, but probably untenable). If for no other reason than that in capitalism, you don't motivate an industry to do better by ceasing to consume anything they produce. The moment you stop being at least a _potential_ customer, they stop giving a shit about you.
@Robbert van Eijndhoven The percentage is 99.0%, you're right, I was slightly off www.sentienceinstitute.org/us-factory-farming-estimates Otherwise, we agree.
Man, this was a really great video. I've always loved your content and knowing that you're vegan makes me enjoy it even more. Hopefully one day people will stop turning a blind eye to such widespread cruelty. Anyway man, have a great day.
Wow. This was just masterful. Speaking as the cowardly flavour (ha) of carnist, I've been on a full emotional journey and now I have to go and sit quietly and reflect. And bin all my cheese.
The act of eating meat or animal products isn’t really morally bad. It’s the pain that happened to get it. Once that pain has happened for a particular product, throwing it away will not take away the pain. Just don’t buy more in the future. If you purchase it, they will replace it, which causes future pain. So basically it’s a sunk cost for the stuff in your fridge, but not the stuff still in the store
@Dez Asher The suffering was already for naught. Stealing the breast milk of the tortured cow and its butchered calves just adds insult to injury. Animals do not exist purely for our pleasure. They are not ours to do with as we please. Why not just... leave them alone?
Truly exquisite! Consuming this video left me feeling satisfied and morally superior for the next 3 hours. It even made me feel as if I were to change my behavior: as if I could stop consuming
I love how you specify the validity of different readings of this film. I think one of the things that make it so interesting is the variety of messages that can be analyzed from it, depending on what lens you decide to approach it from. It's simultaneously a story about queer self acceptance and a story about the evils of american imperialism, about the ethics of eating meat and about cultural appropriation. Its a different message nearly every time you watch it, and all of the messages are equally striking. I only watched it for the first time about 2 weeks ago (and then a second time.. and a third time...) and i havent been able to stop thinking about it since. Amazing movie, and amazing video. 😊
You’ve done some great videos, but this may well be the most intersectional analysis you’ve done. It’s been amazing watching your channel go from ‘hey wanna hear some cool stories about New Orleans’ to ‘Here’s a deep critical left-wing analysis of the themes of Ravenous, using big words like dialectic’.
First piece of analysis I've seen that has me genuinely considering going vegan, or at least vegetarian. Thanks for the very thoughtful deep dive on one of my own favorite films.
@@soulknife20 Vegetarian is a good stepping stone and an advisable starting point. The reason you want to eventually transition to an animal product free diet is because buying dairy and eggs still financially supports the same meat industry that you recognize as immoral. As Atun-Shei pointed out in the video, chickens cultivated for eggs live in horrific conditions, and once they die are ground into by-product (spam, hot-dogs, etc). The obvious exception being if you have your own chickens that you treat well, or have a friend who does. I do agree it can be really difficult to switch suddenly to being completely vegan. I was vegetarian for almost a year before I switched completely. You need time to figure out how to eat meat free first, especially if you were like me and ate meat as a part of literally every meal.
You should give it a try if it interests you but don't feel pressured to make certain changes if they strain your health or wallet too much for your liking. Also be mindful that many popular vegan foods like quinoa are grown under awful conditions for human workers and/or not ecologically sustainable. This is not to guilt you, as this is a larger systemic problem, but realistically you'll have to determine what you value and if you can reasonably live with the consequences of your choices, whichever ones you make.
How do you know someone is a non-cannibal? Don't worry, they'll tell you 🤣🤣🤣
"And Yes I will be criticizing capitalism."
I'm giving you a pass for using this joke. You are just too great a man to not give you a pass for such a corny joke.
@@JonathanB00K3R I don't get it?
@@-xirx- substitute "vegan" for "non-cannibal" into atun-shei's original comment. It's the perennial joke whenever veganism or animal rights are brought up
@@-xirx- yah what arisily said. Every non-vegan excitedly reuses the joke as if it hasn't already been smeared all over the internet. In reality, the joke and others like it serve to keep animal rights activism servile, contained and controlled.
It's easy to overlook what somebody is saying if you can make a joke about them. Nothing against the teller of the joke, it's just something I think is important to expose whenever a joke like this is used. This goes for any sort of joke for any social justice movement.
"You may choose to look the other way, but you can never again say that you did not know" -William Wilberforce.
He was an absolute legend, and a personal hero of mine. He lived only a few kilometers from my current home. I saw his name on a few statues and street names growing up but I only thought to look him up as an adult... If anybody wants to discover a criminally under-remembered hero I strongly suggest you read his Wikipedia page.
"Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things." - Terry Pratchett
I think the original quote was "and sin young man is when you treat people as things" from Carpe Jugulum, from Granny Weatherwax to the Omnian priest Mightily Praiseworthy are thee who Exalteth Om Oats when they're close to dying in a storm somewhere in Uberwald on the way to confront the Vampires. It was very important to the overall themes of the story, of which there were a great deal. The vampires were in many ways a commentary on colonialism given they attempted to Colonise Lancre in the name of progress and modernization book.
@@seekingabsolution1907 From my most recent read-through, it is in "I Shall Wear Midnight" in the form I quoted. I would not be surprised if it was also found in a slightly altered version elsewhere. Most certainly it came from Granny Weatherwax.
Or, Evil begins when you begin to treat animals as things.
@@OrionCanningwell animals can be granted personhood anyways imo
a😅
Never being able to disassociate cannibalism from homosexuality again is a _weird_ way to start pride month, but I'm here for it.
Never thought I'd see my favorite history/film CZcamsr and my favorite Ace Combat CZcamsr cross paths like this, but I'm glad it happened.
@@clairebishop7138Now I need to see Atun-shei cover Ace Combat...
Doesn't that make homosexuality look... bad? Especially considering the obvious subtext of the film regarding capitalism and carnism. I don't get how this is a positive thing..
@@AlphaGarg You completely missed the argument. The cannibals in _Ravenous_ _are_ monsters, but gay people have historically and to this day (especially trans people) are made to _feel_ like monsters.
@@wafflepoet5437Yeah, the connection is the taboo, not the degeneracy or wrongness of both cannibalism and homosexuality.
Some racist keto-freak neurologist: “wine and carbs makes you a pussy”
Roman legionnaire: “hold my Falernum”
"Cannibal western folkhorror comedy" - If a movie invents a new insane-sounding genre, that's how you know the movie is good.
A genre that strangely contains two movies lol
@ereherats what's the other
Like Logan, a Pseudo-Western.
@@Thomaas551 I was going to say Cannibal: the Musical!
it's so funny when Atun-Shei shows off the horny tumblr fanart. girl what were YOU doing at the devil's sacrament
"We are the granddaughters of the horny tumblr girls you couldn't burn"
@@AtunSheiFilms oh yea i guess while youre here amazing video that made me re-investigate the relationship i have to veganism & meat eating or whatever.
Andy knows we've seen him in the comments of Sarah Z videos about Sherlock and Supernatural fandom. His shame has already been exposed 😂
@@erraticonteuse Just the normal amount of shame.
Comment makes absolutely no sense
15:11-15:21
"When a Wampanoag killed a wolf he thanked the wolf for feeding his family, when a Massachusetts bay farmer sat down for pork he thanked god for giving him dominion over pigs." Damn, that line sent a chill down my spine. Great work Atun-Shei!
Excellent writing.
I don't thank anyone for any food; attributing personality to the universe is ridiculous.
And Google Jeffrey Jones for the real horror in this film.
@@unkmonk1 typica bourgeois degeneracy
@@unkmonk1And so only the self remains and the degenerate evils of egoism rule your world
@@unkmonk1as human minds we're all reflections of the small parts of the universe we've experienced. The universe has personality to it, even if only we can recognize our own within it.
The story of Babe disturbingly reminds me of the story of Felix Mendelson. Both examples of a lucky member of a group that is oppressed. Babe was chosen to be saved because he was useful and had a particular skill that granted him emancipation from death. Mendelson was a talented Jewish musician that was granted rights for being special. He advocated for Jewish emancipation in Prussia because of the inherent value of a person and not because everyone is as talented as him. Babe wished safety and freedom for all animals for the same reason. He observes others and does as the sheep do to be more important than the sheep. This gives him freedom because he is unique. This doesn't save every animal and the film ends. This is similar to Mendelson who spent his entire life showing that Jews can be talented and equals just to die without Jewish emancipation being enacted in his country. A free Jew, but the only one in his country.
Ehh, Jews were free in Prussia and some families were highly regarded. Mendelssohn, who with his siblings were converted to Christianity by their father, was applauded highly during his lifetime. Later National socialists disregarded him due to his Jewish heritage. Seems like you fell for their propaganda. Work on your general knowledge before posting, please
It reminds me of animal farm, only instead of being critical of communism, it's critical of capitalism and consumerism. I haven't seen that movie since i was a young child. Might need to watch it again lol.
@@MrNebelschatten I don’t think a person needs to know the history of Mendelssohn in order to draw a comparison there. It’s probably pretty uncommon for people to know a composer and the history around them, so i thought it was cool that someone actually drew the line there. It was kind of you to clarify the National Socialists (not Nazi’s, or German “National Socialists”? Prussia was mentioned, so I’m guessing they’re different, since you didn’t use the term Nazi) had disregarded him for being a Jew. I know little of history, but you’d probably have more people looking to hear about this if you didn’t knock people for mistaking things. Also, i thought Mendelssohn kept his surname despite his family being Christian and changing to Bartholdy?
@@satanicoldlady8060 Animal farm is a critic of stalinism and marxist-leninism, though, not of communism in general.
@@professeurgideere5856 Orwell was in fact a socialists but he hated Stalin and Russia's betrayal in the Spanish war.
There is an element I feel you missed or only lightly touched on, possibly because it is only really visible in developing societies these days. The social status of meat. The diet of the peasant can be very low in meat, to such an extent that many in developing nations are very defensive of their meat eating: rich people eat meat and they are no longer poor.
In a weird way there was probably a time when the increased availability of meat was seen as a form of economic liberation. In fact the Soviet Union was very proud of its agricultural advancements during the mid cold war: the proletariat no longer confined to the meager sustenance of the serf.
Great insight.
Great point, I know someone who grew up in Poland during the cold war, and he considers western european people’s insistence on eating meat everyday as showing off.
Meat is a luxury product in a way.
@Piney Colada It absolutely is. Large-scale factory farming is less than a century old. A lot of our ancestors would be amazed that we eat meat more than once a week, let alone with every meal.
thank you for pointing it out already. Especially in rural areas even in industrialised countries meat-as-status-symbol has been an important factor. Inter-/Post-War scarcity and food regulations lead to a rise in prestige for example also in Germany, where i'm from.
Story time! My great-grandfather, born in 1900 was known for whistling his tune of "potatoe soup, potatoe soup and a nice big roast on sundayyy!" for everyone around our rural town of salt miners. To my mother, born 50years later, this was a sentiment that led them through the time of the "Wirtschaftswunder" in which availability and consumption of meat was a direct indicator of wealth & status. So when again 60 years later i came along and said that i wouldn't eat any more meat this was met with the expectable defensiveness and the implied question if everything was alright with me, if i had financial difficulties and the likes, which took some time to work out - everything worked out fine in the end^^
- so tl;dr: yes, totally agree to your point, also in highly industrialised nations. (regional & historical factors do apply heavily)
Indeed, and that's something one can see at work in other socialist countries like the PRC even to-day. BTW, Colonial Era and early Republican Argentina and Uruguay were noted for being exceptions to the general rule about meat being for the rich, since beef was the staple diet of the gauchos and others in the Uruguayan and Argentine pampas, with vegetables and grain, except for yerba mate tea, being relatively rare in their diet. Argentina also had beef drying, salting, and jerking establishments that did all of those to export salted, jerked, and dried beef to other parts of the Americas, especially to feed slaves in places like Cuba, during that era. One of the things that gets to me at times, and am a Yank, is the automatic attribution of virtue or vice by one group or another, and their inherent superiority over others as a result of any number of factors, diet included, over others, or what they believe to be their inherent superiority over others. This is where Carnists(a new term to me 'till seeing this), Vegans, Capitalists, Marxist-Leninists, Fascists, you name it, drive me nuts, because they assume they, and they alone, are righteous, right, and superior, when history and current practise show most of 'em aren't in one way or another. Good insight by Atun-Shei about the nature of on-line monetisation and fame, and how fame and all that comes with it, is often the spur and failing of many involved with it. Have my share of such aspirations, but those aren't about to happen, and probably just as well. Not everyone can or should be the Smartest Person in the Room, especially all of the time, I think. Anyway, I've rabbited on long enough, and good video and good insight above.
"I maybe over-analyzing but im not tripping", that's fantastic.
So firstly, I'm going back to veganism because...I just. Can't after this.
Second of all, I don't think it's over analyzing at all, seems like all of this is kinda just below surface level
I shall cook more burgers and hotdogs today
I think the idea of the reluctant cannibal in the film also has some more connections to modern western living that could be looked at. When I did my intro to food history class at uni one of the things we talked about was the many many was industrialization has chaged food paths and access. The connection I made in regards to this was the way in which systematic realities make it hard for people in many places and situations to be able to make healthy and ethical food choices due to a lack of time, access, energy, facilities or numerous other factors. In the film the reluctant cannibal could find other options, but the reality of the situation means cannibalism is the easy simple choice, and to not make thay choice is a hard thing so they just try not to look into the reality of the choices they make.
Vincent Woodard wrote a book on documented cannibalism of enslaved peoples in the United States. A very, very hard read, but entirely relevant to this video.
'the delectable nergro'? Just left a comment above when he mention white people never ate the enslaved at 17:18, very disturbing topic but hope he checks it out.
The book is largely about the politics of slavery, rather than actual cannibalism despite what the title says. A posthumous book, about how slave masters were secretly gay for their slaves, shouldnt have got such rave reviews as it did
WOW, not just one but TWO of my unhinged tumblr posts finding their way into this video...I feel honored. I haven't seen your original video but I may just have to now...
You do God’s work
I respect that you're honest about how unhinged you are. Most arent so honest. Its strangely commendable.
@@vincentfegley6068 these days, the people who still choose to be on Tumblr are pretty self-aware about it. It's the place you go because you're too weird to be anywhere else.
@@00muinamir
nah that’s 4chan, tumblr is where you go when you’re too weird for everywhere else but not racist enough for 4chan
@@theandromedaeffect979nah tumblr has racists too lol, they're just pseudo-progressive about it
"A man eats the flesh of another..." HE GETS PRION DISEASE.
Not always- usually you only get it by eating the _brain_ of someone who was prior infected with prion disease.
#NotACannibal
Only brains
You are more likely to get prion disease from getting old... And your body just folding a protein wrong...
Or eating beef, mutton, goat and likely soon... Venison
The scences of Boyd at dinner mixed with the ;Dominion' scenes was gold. Very powerful.
Embrace it, dread it, the ascension to breadtuber comes all the same.
All those breadtubers will cut their own balls at the end, or this is just few cases of extreme, lol?
@@Goran1138 Idk if they will but we are definitely coming to cut yours off, so you'd better watch out
Breadtube was never real get over yourself. Folk are just folk, good and bad.
@@Goran1138like the ancient "Great Mother"/Cybele cultists in ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt and the near East... self castration as the initiation ceremony.
breadtubers are talking parasites
So, the conclussions I have reached from your analisys, are as follows:
1-"Ravenous" is the best film in the world.
2-"Babe" is the second best film in the world.
I'll argue that Babe Pig In The City is a superior movie
I knew in the back of my mind that the meat industry is a brutal, unforgiving thing, but I wasn’t prepared to have it shown to me in this manner. It’s appreciated but whooooo boy that’s a hard bit to get through
Yeah I have to say the same, Damn you Atun Shei making me think about stuff, I'm gonna feel guilty about my burger tonight
@@TheGreatBerserker I was eating a slice of meat lovers pizza while watching this and I ended the meal early. Yeah...
I’m with you man. I’m sitting here like, who do I throw money at, who do I bother on the phone constantly, who do I vote for to get this shit to a point I know the animal I’m eating lived a full life with lots of good feed and didn’t suffer in the end. If that can be done I can live with it, until we start growing this stuff in a lab or something.
@1reefshark buy a whole or half animal from a local farm, butchered locally and not in the factory slaughter system.
Its awful. I'm still unsure about complete veganism though. Being complicit with the meant industry is absolutely evil. If all meat consumption is bad, then are cultures which rely on meat in a non-industrial fashion that's respectful of animals as bad as the meat industry? Are tigers by nature worse animals because they don't show compassion to their prey? Weirdly enough then, I support and respect animal rights activists and vegans even though I don't know about the absolute axioms of their philosophy, because their actions will limit and hopefully eliminate the normalized mass-cruelty to animals. But despite not agreeing with their philosophy fully, this still doesn't justify my consumption of meat, as it is produced by that industry.
Because I grew up in a developing country, where the killing of fowl for dinner would sometimes take place in our backyard, I have always been cognizant of where our food comes from and what that entails.
While I am not going vegan or vegetarian anytime soon, I still recognize the costs a heavily carnivore (especially beef) diet takes upon the environment. This is no doubt helped by meat industry propaganda, which pushes absurd (and unhealthy) meat consumption to Westerners.
My adult children have slowly got me off of red meat, but I have to have a steak once a month.
@@rasheed7934 Why do you "have" to have a steak once a month?
@@juliagoetia Because I'm a carnivore.
@@rasheed7934Actually an omnivore, but I sense a degree of reticence on your part that is entirely unnecessary. Bottom line: the people pushing vegetarianism are pushing an abnormal (for humans) and unhealthy lifestyle.
@@rasheed7934 you both didn't listen to the video or read the original comment
This is semi-tangential, but one of the interesting aspects of the meat-forward American diet, especially in the modern day, boils down to the absolutely horrid quality of supermarket produce for the comparatively expensive price. The vast majority of produce in box stores are underripe, overripe, watery, or sour because it has to travel hundreds or more often thousands of miles to make it to Walmart shelves. The quality of meat doesn't degrade nearly as bad over those distances, and you get a lot more calories per dollar. But pull back that veneer even a little bit - roadside sweet corn, neighbor-grown heirloom tomatoes, apple varieties local to your area, PAWPAWS - and you realize exactly how poor the produce quality really is on the whole in this country.
And for that matter, the fact that WASPs thought their English meat-eating ways was an aspect of superiority is darkly ironic. All classic "American" food is immigrant and/or Black food, _especially_ the meat. Brisket (Jewish), BBQ (Black American), hotdog/sausages (German), jambalaya (French & Black), and I could go on forever.
A Jewish brisket is cooked more like a pot roast than a barbecue brisket but that's just me and my Jewish background.
But you've got a point. A lot of those dishes are made from other parts of the animals. Still meat, but not "the best meat" of these fussy English aristocrats. They'd take the best, most expensive parts of an already expensive animal and discard the rest. That's why the dinner is only steaks! They reach such a level of carnism that not only will they consume, they will be fussy about it. The rest of the cow? Who cares. They want the juiciest, biggest, meatiest piece of the pie and leave the rest to be rendered into peasant meals.
I just realized how fortunate I am to live on a country where Open air Markets are still a thing and their existence are subsidized the the government.
It isn't as comfortable as a Supermarket, and very much not as "clean" looking.
But With easy access to open air market, I can get almost every single local produce fresh.
And when I went to the Main city of my place, I am surprised by the lack of open air markets there and where supermarkets thrive.
And yeah, most of the plant based stiff there isn't as fresh despite the place being more comfortable.
@samuelkatz1124 the upper class wanting to eat the best part of the animal is common across cultures, its not just an English thing. Everyone wants to eat prime rib, not everyone can afford it, meanwhile everyone can afford bull testicles, but not everyone wants it, so prime rib is expensive and testicles cheap
Having Jeffrey Jones as a disgraced outcast in a film about exploitation has retrospectively become more fitting given his real-life behavior.
I still have difficulty processing his crimes. It’s just difficult to believe someone so likable could have that sickness
What a freaking asshole monster that man is!
@@Ditka-89 That's why he was pretty good at it
@@Ditka-89what did he do?
@@galacticupfan7386soliciting a minor
When someone can write a video essay that teaches you something beautiful, uncomfortable, and powerful, and have said video essay be mostly about gay cannibals also, that person is a master of essayism.
I'm so glad you brought up The Terror... it is my Ravenous. I'm so insane over it (guilty of being one of the tumblr girlies). This whole video was just crazy good-- made me reconsider food and eating in a whole new way, just amazing. Wow. I am never not gonna be thinking of this.
I subscribe to the idea that if media that has a message makes you uncomfortable, you should think about the message. Your essay has put me in that uncomfortable spot of self reflection. Thank you, and also, f**k you lol
That is an extremely intellectually healthy attitude, I'm going to start making a point to do that myself :)
You took the words from my mouth!
Definitely agreed.
Ditto. I subscribe to the idea of eating animal products that are "certified humane", but when pro-vegan content is presented in an intelligent, provocative way, I'm always game to spend that time reflecting and re-evaluating. (And ditto specifically with paying attention to messages that make you uncomfortable.)
@@tsukikage It certainly is thought-provoking.
My personal favorite "fun little detail" about the Mexican-American War is that one of the baloney excuses for the war, that America needed to take control of the border region because Mexico couldn't bring to heel 'the powerful native nations' there, was actually more true than the people who uttered it probably thought. The Comanche for instance were certainly not going to be Mexicans or Americans as long as they could fight back. Which they would ultimately be unable to do as they numbered only a few thousand due to impact of disease and the encroaching settlers from the East eventually vastly exceeded the ecological carrying capacity their old hunting way of life required. An interesting element in this is actually regarding the dealings between the Lakota people and the federal government, since the Lakota were also keenly aware of what they'd require in land to maintain their traditional way of life, but tragically the only wealth they had was space and Washington needed to cross that space in order to build railroads to the West so conflict became inevitable.
Regarding meat and history, an interesting small part of a larger whole is as part of the Meiji era project to construct a modern state and empire in Japan: One of the ways in which Japan strived to be recognized as being equal to white "standard of civilization" was adoption and encouragement of eating meat. The emperor Meiji, at the age of 19, ate a steak as propaganda for eating beef as part of a government project for Japan as a nation to reach "civilization and enlightenment." While it would be exaggerated to say Japan was totally vegan for over a thousand years prior to that event, eating meat was a taboo that required spiritual cleansing until the decision to become a society of meat-eaters.
You mean terrestrially raised meat, right? I find it hard to imagine the Japanese not eating fish and crab.
@@ericcampbell503 I'm not enough of an expert to say if the religious taboo included seafood, but as I alluded to it wasn't an absolute ban either way so I'd imagine a fishing village on the coast would have kept to their staple diet. As much as the government pushed eating beef as a part of the modernization project, it obviously wasn't part of the diet for a lot of people because of high levels of urban poverty in Meiji era Japan.
A related curio about history of food in Japan was the high incidence of beriberi in Japan in late 19th century and especially among IJN sailors of poor backgrounds who took the opportunity to "eat like the rich" by eating only white rice in the navy, white rice being a military staple because of it being easier to storage and preserve than white rice. The status of white rice as fine dining made it a ticking time bomb for Japanese society as industrialization made white rice much more available to society, but navy doctor Kanehiro Takaki figured out the connection between nutrition and the disease. There's plenty of other interesting cases of people doing something detrimental just out of satiating their tastes, such as Swedish farmers refusing to learn Finnish and Baltic methods of grain preservation because they thought the taste wasn't as good (the smoke-drying method would have greatly improved preservation of meager Nordic harvests), or the Londoners who traveled several blocks to drink (unknowingly, this whole case was how doctor John Snow proved cholera was caused by a waterborne bacteria) from a cholera-contaminated water pump because the water according to them tasted better.
@@ericcampbell503 I hear tell that it's ok to eat fish because they don't have any feelings.
I still can't see how Japanese society totally abstained for eating meat because of "religious taboo". There are Buddhists in Japan and they are quite a lot of them and I can see Japanese Buddhists to not eat meat
But for the others Maybe less of a religious taboo and more of a Cultural sanctions. Creating a Pasture isn't easy in the limited spaces of Sengoku Jidai era Japan. And losing one after a Warlord sacked a village housing one would be economically catastrophic for anyone.
My guess is that, just like in Rome and Medieval Britain, meat eating is reserved for special occasions, for nobilities, really expensive, or all of them... So people just don't eat pastured meat as much.
Really! I thought eating whale meat went way back in Japan.
The emotional rollercoaster this sent me on from listening respectfully to getting all fired up about capitalism to being distraught over the meat industry to mild hysteria upon hearing "Boyd goes full power bottom".
I watched this from InrangeTV and I gotta say, this was probably the most productive hour of my time all day. Thanks for making this!
"Overanalyzin"
This meme is in every video eassy community on the internet lol
You're not wrong.
Overanalyzing Avatar has really started something
I watched the first Ravenous video about a year ago and afterwards watched the film. It instantly became my hands down favorite piece of cinema. It is by far one of the most bold faced unapologetic excoriations of American expansionism, colonialism, capitalism, and militarism I have seen and it does this so artistically. It’s not a ham fisted manifesto of a movie, but a piece of art with skewering social commentary. And it does all this as a western too. That quintessential genre of lionizing the American myth turned on its head to show that myth for what it really is.
Great thought-provoking video, only note I have is as to "certain animals" not being allowed in the house being because of simple prejudice… I’m a hobby farmer with a lot of livestock pets. We only eat eggs (when we can find them) and the chickens and goats and sheep can wander about the whole place as they wish. The horses have to stay fenced in pastures because they are huge and tend to get into trouble. The reason most hooved animals aren’t house pets is the house-training factor. They simply physically do not have enough sphincter control and so pee and poo indiscriminately. The sheep and goats aren’t as bad as they poop dry pellets, so when they are sick we can bring them in the laundry room with a tarp on the floor and shavings to absorb moisture. You can’t do this with cows, they are walking diarrhea machines. Horses plop mounds. Even the little ones. Pigs can be house trained, but a huge part of piggy life is rooting and wallowing in dirt. Keeping them indoors most of the time isn’t the ideal life for them. Chickens are the messiest birds I’ve ever seen (and I once had zebra finches that pooped five feet straight up a wall). So. Much. Poop. Most Carnivora (the taxonomic group) are much more amenable to bringing inside, along with various rodents. In the past people used to make houses with barns in them, but that’s not really advisable from a hygiene standpoint. Parasites, too. Large livestock shed a lot more worms than dogs or cats, and I’ve had a lot of experience in that department. So basically just saying there’s good reasons why certain animals have to live in their own house. Doesn’t mean we love them less, my Shetland wether Sheepie was one of the coolest animals I’ve ever known and his ashes are next to my bed because I can’t bring myself to bury them just yet. 😔
R.I.P Sheepie he’s going back home to Heaven brother.
Jesus died for you, have yourself a wonderful day brother.
@@Devout214 😔🩷
@@Pixiel711 😫💨
@@Devout214 thanks for the thoughts, he was a special lil guy 💖
A side note to separating pets from livestock. Dogs and cats are predators, pigs are prey. At some point, in some way, a pig will exhibit prey behavior and your dog might attack and kill them, but cats are predators and don't give off that behavior. This is why you do not keep pigs and dogs in the same house as pets.
One thing: the male carnivore/female vegetarian dichotomy is a very American (maybe Anglosphere) phenomenon. In most cultures, a more balanced diet is consumed, but any woman worth her grandmother's recipes will look at you cockeyed if you declare within earshot that you abstain from all meat.
I'm pretty sure that the so-called dichotomy doesn't exist outside the heads of some upper class feminists. I genuinely loved this video, even though I disagreed with aspects of it, I cannot deny its excellent production quality and perceptive analysis.
the fanart of Ives wearing a "kitty slut" t-shirt made me laugh so hard I had to pause the video.
But the rural British ate porridge more than beef…
Mythology does have a nasty habit of ignoring inconvenient facts.
also, irish, french, italian, spanish and asian people definitively ate fish and seafood, I am sure those are meat and 9 times out of 10 french won against the english, then again, eugenics can be funny like that.
@@TheTartKnightas far as i'm concerned the irish stopped eating completely for a few years
Well mostly bread. The average male laborer during the Victorian Era eat something like 6 pounds of it a day
@@notbadsince97labourer being important, as that meant city, and yea the city ate loads of bread in Victorian England.
This essay should be an official addendum to the film and required viewing immediately after credits role. Well done ❤
Also "No Ethical Consumption Under Cannibalism" NEEDS to be a shirt in your merch store (the irony of this sentiment is only barely outweighed by the awesomeness of the quote.)
And now I am horribly depressed.
Immediately liked, commented and turned on all notifications (as I had already subscribed)
All of this is true and fantastic, but absolutely nothing can diminish my love for Col. Ives' final line, delivered from the clutches of that bear trap.
Heh bear trap, there's no way that wasn't coded too...
@@Terminalsanity idk, neither man is a “bear” and that lingo was far less known outside the gay subculture in the pre-internet time the movie was made
@@alisaurus4224 Bear has been floating around pop culture since the 70's and was well known by the mid 90's especially in Hollywood.
Obviously neither man is literally a bear there but one is definitely dom coded and that coding lines up with being a bear a dom looking make a sub out someone who winds up on top and in control in the end ,beartrap indeed😁
Atun-Shei: Hey, want to see an hour long leftist critique of a historical cannibalism movie you’ve never watched?
Me: Shit wendigo, that’s all you had to say!
"Get out of your comfort zone, stop studying Hannibal's tactics and start studying the uncomfortable, if we are to have true perspective of the past". I think your quote went along somewhere along the lines of this, really cool video!
Oh where does that come from?
I know this will probably never be seen by atun or gain traction, but I just wanted to say how important this video was for the LGBT+ community-or at least to me. As someone part of the community who is also very interested in history, it's disheartening to see the amount of historical creators touch or avoid queer topics. I know that Ravenous is just a movie, but your dedication in analyzing it in a way that was not only brilliantly put together and well researched, but also respectful-- in which I mean that the topic of "gayness" wasn't seen as just a joke and that it did have a part in the film's plot. Anyway, I know I'm not good with words but I hope you sorta understand what I'm trying to say. Thank you so much again and happy pride month
Why do you people exist?
The field of history is deeply slanted against us queer people and it's genuinely so tragic because of how much queerness there is in history and humanity in general.
Crikey, I wonder how long it took for this one to get demonetised... in earnest this channel just gets better and better, and this has absolutely left me with some things to really think about.
I do appreciate that you dress up for the theme of the videos
That's his incentive to do the video to begin with 😂
Can’t let those wool coats sit in the closet for years at a time. What if moths got to it?
May I just say that Neal McDonough has a gift for finding lesser known but exceptional films to participate in? Seeing him confirms atun-shies hypothesis
He made a great hitler
I think this is your best video essay yet
"Can't wait to sit down with a nice ham sandwich to watch this insightful video of a movie I've never seen" - My innocent unspoiled self about an hour or so ago
This one hits like a truck in too many places. Time to reevaluate it all.
I feel physically sick and am suffering from extreme cultural shock, fear, and feeling the physical pain of the suffering portrayed simultaneously
Tbh, if you were to send this video to an average western straight dude-bro, and force them to watch all of it, then there would be more holes in their worldview than a tree that went through the Battle of Gettysburg.
@@pufffincrazy5275Well I'm a regular guy living in a western country and the way I see it alot of what he said is overly dramatizing. My world veiw is intact I'm sure to your disappointment, despite watching every last second of this when it came out I still disagree.
@@rogerkeleshian2215 Okay, then you get to be in the same camp as everyone else who justifies slavery, mass murder, rape and oppression. If that's the life you choose for yourself, own it.
So happy you made a longer video on this movie. As someone who in undergrad was obsessed with regeneration through violence in American Lit., I wish that I knew about this film back then!
It took me a while to notice your table setting, sir. How morbidly fantastic .
I'm Muslim and witness halaal butchering sometimes. It's sad and a reflection of the state of (what I think this video has taught me) my carnist conditioning that I didn't react inside. I thought some things in this video were a bit of a stretch and I don't even necessarily consider myself left-wing, but I watched this whole thing, subscribed and liked it. You moved me.
The in-n-out ""stungun"" is no or less more brutal than hearing the set of very particular goat screams as half its throat is cut alive. I considered Americans pressing a gun to its head "more humane" for some bizarre reason, when internally I believe that they are intelligent individuals who deserve their lives. I think the video is an Aussie slaughterhouse. I find it difficult to get the necessary protein I need for my growth goals, as well as difficulty in breaking my eating routine... a trait of my autism. Could you tell from the length of this comment? lol
This video inspired me to actively give my energy towards researching and figuring out where to purchase the necessary foods for these goals in a vegan manner. Like, actually properly committing to several changes.
My sister was a vegan and ardently refused to take part in family meals, weddings etc because they are almost always meat with no vegan options, but she was never pushy about it. She passed away in 2016 and I think I should follow this particular ideal. Thank-you so much for making me see this clearly my friend.
I'm sorry to hear she isn't with us. Good for you to think on it, think about how our cultures imprint on us the 'need' to eat meat or not be part of our culture and society. I've been mostly vegetarian for 35 years (ate meat for around 6-8 years in my 20s, as I was fed up of the difficulty and stigma). But I went back to it when i started to think more about how my food was made..
I do find it hard to see others that I care about, and love, eat meat. Knowing that they either suppress or simply do not feel the same respect and sorrow that I feel for the animals that went into their meal. Good on you taking a second look and thinking about one of the most defining decisions we can make about ourselves in life.
The other possibility is that you intellectually recognize that, 𝓳𝓾𝓼𝓽 𝓵𝓲𝓴𝓮 𝓮𝓿𝓮𝓻𝔂 𝓸𝓽𝓱𝓮𝓻 𝓪𝓷𝓲𝓶𝓪𝓵 𝓸𝓷 𝓹𝓵𝓪𝓷𝓮𝓽 𝓮𝓪𝓻𝓽𝓱, you are part of a food chain hierarchy; and that eating the flesh of other animals (as opposed to, say, killing for sport or sadism) is perfectly logical, rational, healthy, and a sin-free part of your inherent nature.
@Michael Anderson There is nothing natural about factory farms, convenience stores and processed meats. The only natural part of this food chain of yours is your heavy coping when confronted with the ethical ramifications of your intellectual inaction.
Im happy you are making the change. it take quite some strength to confront ones shortcomings. As a tip maybe for the protein. there probably are some vegan protein powders where you live, at least where im at, they have pretty good stats. other than that lentils are very high in protein (although you fart like a mfer from them).
@@KArchine I have been struggling with the same problem, concerning close family. I dont know why but its getting harder to look at them compassionatly rather than in anger
Damn, I knew I should've wore my turtleneck today.
So i've been a fan for years now and my appreciation for your work has only grown lately. But being an anarchist, socialist, disabled and bisexual trans woman means I always, always have to be on the lookout for that Moment when it turns out "Oh nice, yet another artist who wants me dead or dying." It's not a nice place to be in, especially since i try to learn and think about what everyone has to say, even that kind of person.
But regardless, that mindset has in the past lead me to be a little on edge whenever I watch your videos, waiting for that Moment, especially since you have made it a point to not talk about modern politics more than is necessary.
But with this video, and in the other talking about the queer club fire, you genuinely surprised me with the frankness and conviction that you sympathize and empathize with the unpersoned people who died and lived through that fire and that you spoke about the inherent vampirism of capitalism. This goes double for the way you doubled down as Billy Yank
This might be a silly thing to say, but thank you for making the videos that you do, I think I'll look forward to them for as long as you make them
Post Script...
Johnny Reb should be redeemed, finally put away the rebel flag, and him and Billy Yank should kiss. Once the last episode comes out there's like 50/50 chance im writing fanfic about them.
Really excellent video as always.
Food is such a fascinating aspect of human society, and sociologically speaking, I think people fail to truly appreciate how meaningful it is to our perceptions. For most westerners at least, we spend almost the first two decades with zero control or agency in the things we consume. We eat what our parents/guardians serve us. We have no idea what's healthy or unhealthy. We simply eat others put in front of us. And this aspect of socialization is formative. Food is culture, but not everyone is able to put into words just how meaningful it is. They might be quick to anger when you break some food-norm, but they might not be capable of the kind of introspection required to understand why they are upset.
If you're the vegetarian at the thanksgiving dinner table, you have felt what it means to go against the culture that raised you. People would never state this in such stark terms, but denying common foods is not entirely unlike denying a religion, a system of social organization, or some other foundational belief.
I guess my point is this - to the omnivores, interrogate your beliefs. Be willing to appreciate the argument of the moral vegan, and even if you do not change, perhaps you might consider that just because something is as aspect of your culture doesn't mean its inherently good.
And to the vegans - when you get upset that the world isn't moving at your pace on this issue, understand exactly what it is that you are asking your friends/family/peers to do - You are asking them to give up a meaningful aspect of their culture (and not just that, but an aspect of their culture that has been etched in stone since long before they had the agency to choose for themselves). that sort of thing doesn't just "change" for most people... even when it should.
When it comes to all matters of critical theory/systems-thinking, I can't help but think of this Wallace quote - There are these two young fish swimming along and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says “Morning, boys. How’s the water?” And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes “What the hell is water?”
Help the "carnists" understand that they are swimming in water, a system that can be understood and critiqued. But understand that society isn't all that interested in teaching us to know what "water" is, and is much more interested in the simple fact that we continue swimming.
For myself, I have not given up meat entirely... but my patterns of consumption have changed as I've gotten older and begun to think about the moral value of animals and the exploitative nature of capitalism.
I am perfectly conscious that I eat living things, you do too, I am perfectly conscious that by eating I kill things, you do too.
Honestly I don't think I have ever been not conscious of that, well at least since I became old enough as a child to be conscious of the nature of things.
I find the amount of mental gymnastics people do to distance themselves from the reality of death to be ridiculous and somewhat absurd.
Everything lives by killing other things or feeding on things that died in someway or another.
The nice Little cow is going to be eaten by wolves in the wild it's a pray animal.
In time those same wolves are going to die and they bodies are going to fertilize the soil the cow eats.
This is not to say I encourage the unethical treatment of animals, on the contrary there's a growing movement of ethical meat eaters encouraging lessened consumption of meat and ethical non intensive cattle raising.
Vegetarianism, similar to many such excesses is not even ecologically convenient...
I don’t see capitalism as an exploitive means of economics, rather it is perhaps the best method humanity currently has for dealing with the inevitable issue of scarcity. All other economic systems haven either lead to suffering on a large scale ie feudalism or mass death. iE communism/socialism. As long as scarcity of resources is an issue for humanity their will always be inherent inequality.
@@gamingforever9121lmao we currently produce enough food to feed the entire world. We enforce scarcity currently by having a monetary barrier to access this food. This leads to hundreds of thousands of POUNDS of food being thrown away DAILY because it has not been bought. Capitalism benefits from this artificial scarcity.
@@prince_of_cats yes and the reason why we have an over abundance of food is because of capitalism encouraging farmers to produce more due to monetary incentives. Communism/socialism does not solve the problem of scarcity/supply instead it makes those issues worse every single time it’s been implemented. See the USSR China in the 50s and North Korean now.
@@prince_of_cats scarcity is not enforced by capitalism as it relates to food you’d have a point if you had mentioned the Diamond market which actually is artificially restricted to create false value. But when it comes to food that food waste in the US is do more to people not buying more food then they actually need as an example take bananas. Any banana that as even the slightest blemish will not be sold and is thrown out that is entirely because people have expectations when it comes to food expectations that the market provides for and so food is wasted.
It’s truly astonishing for me how absurd were believes of 19th century ideologues of anglo-saxon supremacy. As a foreigner I am however deeply fascinated with it. And all of your videos depicting origins of american culture and history.
Thank you for that video and all of your work Atun-Shei. I am glad that my adventure with american history started partly thanks to your channel.
Never forget that you're just as susceptible to those kinds of beliefs as were the people back then. Work to self examine.
“You can tell we’re superior because we have developed highly sophisticated methods of bloodshed.”
-The underlying implication of white supremacy and imperialism
I'm an American, and it feels just ad alien to me. What a different time...
Don't find it fascinating, find it disgusting, backward, inbred and backwater, after all, it is an "ideology" - if it even can be called that- which worked towards the destruction of the world.
So glad you made this follow up. The only critique I had of you first take on Ravenous was I wished it was longer and more on depth.
I watched your previous video when it came out, and it made me re-watch Ravenous (as I was too young to really catch the "subtext" when I first watched it). This is such an excellent materialist dissection of the films themes. Bravo.
Listening to the reading about women feeling like pieces of meat during sexual assault, I remember a tape being lifted from the serial killer David Parker Ray where he literally calls one of his victims which he had drugged as "As far as I’m concerned, you’re a pretty piece of meat, to be used and exploited". Eerie.
I'm honestly stoked for this video. I've watched the first video about 10 times always wishing it was longer.
I rewatched this recently with family, and they hated it. In revenge I made a whole video about cannibalism and talked about Ravenous and the Terror
The Terror is incredible! I rewatched it recently with my boyfriend, my fourth time lol
@@dangerousdays2052 how? Just because people don't like the same things as you doesn't mean they suck.
That thinking is just immature.
@@kingofcards9516 Right? I always make sure to distinguish actual analysis of a piece from my personal tastes or opinions. You are totally valid and entitled to your disliking of something, but it grinds my gears when you act like that means they are poorly written or somehow bad storytelling.
@@misfits9294 it grinds my gears when I get called some slanderous name by a leftist just because I slightly disagree with their opinions.
@@kingofcards9516 you literally spread fascist propaganda on your channel. You have an entire playlist of it.
All you do is misrepresent your opponents
this was a difficult watch, took me all afternoon. great work.
Production quality of your videos has always been good but this is next level!
the nonchalant drop of lebensraum reminds me of something I read once : "Lebensraum is just German manifest destiny"
It's a good thing I finished watching this before I commented. I'm glad that I didn't feel talked down to throughout. Confronted for sure, but I didn't feel condescended to, which I think is a massive benefit of your approach. Much like your Dracula video I'll be thinking about this one, and the points in it, long after I've closed my browser. Maybe it's just my approach to viewing this, but I feel like I'm being invited to think more and talk more than I'm being told to think in a certain way.
I don't know what I expected of this video, but I certainly didn't expect to be questioning more than one aspect of my lifestyle at the end.
thats because u live an awful life
My favorite book is another that focuses a lot on drawing connections between vampirism & queerness in terms of how they are socially experienced-it’s so interesting to see how extensive of a body of work there is on that subject (and similar ones)!
I know this comment is pretty old but could you tell me the name of the book?
@@Disco_Dem Yeah! It’s Carry On by Rainbow Rowell :)
So excited for this, you’re the only reason I know about this movie and I love it. Definitely needs more attention.
I love this movie almost as much as Atun-Shei. So awesome to see someone finally giving this one a deep dive like it's always deserved.
This movie is so good. There's an action scene in it where the dude is just rolling down a hill, but it's so tense because of everything happening. What a great film
Finally got around to buying and watching this film after having it thoroughly spoiled by your two videos. I loved it, wish I had seen it beforehand but thank you for bringing it to attention and adding more context than anyone could ask for. Makes me wish Antonia was still around making movies.
Incredibly challenging watch. Work like this makes me feel proud to be a patron.
Videos like this make me even more excited to see your film.
Incredible, you've made incredibly strong arguments, and convinced me, not only to genuinely consider changing my diet and advocacy, but also why Ravenous is one of my favorite films, once again. I would love to see this kind of thing for my other favorite film, The Lighthouse
Utterly based video. Even more than usual. Great work as always. The omission of a content warning was truly inspired.
This was a very visceral video to watch! I'm still chewing on the Concepts you presented. I'm gonna be thinking about them for a while.
That rant about chasing after the almighty dollar, I want to inject it into my vein! Excellent as always!
This is brilliant work man. Maybe your best yet, and that’s saying a lot.
Fantastic use of deep-cut Franz Ferdinand tracks! What a wonderful surprise in another fantastic video, mate!
Freshman year at Emerson College, I had to show an inspirational clip in my media arts class; I showed the Manifest Destiny scene. I found out the next day from the lab teacher that I freaked out my professor. Ravenous is the best, and the soundtrack alone is a masterpiece. Great Video.
he finally completed the metamorphosis into a breadtuber
The poor man.
As if we didn't have enough crumbtubers.
Lol I thought that the second he said he'd criticized capitalism lol
@@kingofcards9516 Get over it titty baby.
I thought he made breadtuber the first time he k1lled Klaus.
@@grmpEqweer hating Nazis is a universal good.
Bread tubing is not a universal good, more of a political annoyance. Like the “skeptic community” and the incels.
Bad people on the internet complaining at the cameras
I can put myself in the historical mindset of the individuals who perpetrated these objectively horrific atrocities... but I cannot for the life of me understand the mindset of someone who would more or less spoil the entire first season of The Terror with no warning whatsoever.
The world truly is full of monsters.
lol based for making the comparison between manifest destiny and lebensraum. for some reason nobody knows that lebensraum was literally just germans reading american manifest destiny manifestos and translating them. i wonder why
Great video! You put into words a lot of things ive been thinking and feeling these last few years.
Liking and commenting to get this out there as aggressively and masculinely as possible because this may be my favorite video you’ve made
Wow! This video left me in a crumpled sniffling ball in the corner of my room trying to budget out how much it would cost to replace every animal product in my house with vegan alternatives. 10/10 Atun-Shei Films, favorite video yet!
Am I a bad person for thinking of how good a burger sounds? But yeah damn good video, I feel like you can really see an increase in production value and competence.
I spend about $120 a week for two people. I do a lot of home cooking, which helps cuts costs. I could probably spend less, but there are some items we like to have around like dairy free ice cream and chips. Aldi has a lot of good options if there's one near you for switching some items out if you want to have a go at it.
@@larashore1000 Aldi is a goddamn godsend
There’s actually some really good tasting meat alternative substitutes now - even ones with out soy (I hate fake soy meat. So gross) but overall including more beans and legumes in your diet is the way to go to not have any deficiencies. If you actually want to try to go vegetarian or vegan, don’t do it all at once. Start by replacing on thing at a time until that thing becomes a habit and normal. Then go to the next. I’m still having trouble finding a good replacement for eggs and cheese that aren’t gross or cost a fortune.
I married a vegan. I still eat meat, but I don't use as many animal products as I used to
this is by far one of the greatest video essays I have ever seen, and it has made me hungry for more...
In an ironic turn of events, nothing makes me want to eat beef less than being described by Dr. Beard as a ‘beef eater’ (cuz wtf no), especially in context
_WEED EATER_
I was watching this while eating a bacon/mushroom sandwich and having no qualms with all the cannibalism, but then you brought up the CZcamsr growth vortex and I that was the thing that made me take a break while eating. Dunno what that says, but I totally feel yah on that
I got hungry in the middle of the video and ate a chicken Cesar salad with mashed potato’s
Every perfectly paced and edited Atun-Shei video is subtly trying to get me to throw up at any of the dark subjects he covers, this is one is no different and I had to take multiple pauses throughout. Excellent work, I am eagerly (dreading) the next one
This video made me lost my appetite and my meal was vegetarian. Lord have mercy
I cannot believe that I have been watching your videos religiously for years now and I just realized today that I was not subscribed.
Fantastic media analysis, probably one of the best that I've ever seen. I love your work, and you are doing a great job at it. Please, please, please continue.
I’ve probably seen this movie 15x. It’s just that fantastic. Even now, I’ll listen to the soundtrack and get goosebumps every time those clumsy strings start.
I watched this after your recommendation 3 years ago. It's still highly memorable to me and a heavy hitting message.
I don't really think there is any cognitive dissonance in saying the killing and eating of animals is a morally neutral act, while considering factory farms to be cruel and evil
99.9% of animal products in America come from factory farms. The simplest, easiest way to resist that cruelty and evil is to refuse to partake in it any further.
@@AtunSheiFilms This is true, for sure, but at the same time more than half of the clothes that are sold in the US, over two third of all electronics devices not to mention all the other goods are made in China and South East Asia (particularly Bangladesh for clothes) by peoples who're working under what could be at best referred to as slavery of the wage kind. They're also the same peoples who're only now finally starting to get access to meat as an important part of their food sources.
I feel that humans are more morally important to support than animals, both in terms of what actions we as everyday peoples can do at our level here in the west and how peoples in developing countries can survive.
@@aelexlegrand4642 future people will look back at us and look down the same way we do to those of old.
It should hopefully give perspective.
@@AtunSheiFilms I feel like I'm back on r/anarchism with this... And I would like to point out that this isn't exactly true. (And I'm not just talking about that percentage, I can see that's just for effect).
While it's true that the majority of the animal products consumed in the US come from factory farms, the majority of animal products produced globally are not produced in the countries where they are consumed.
Capitalism being what it is, if the majority of people who could afford to were to stop consuming animal products, the farmers current producing animal products would not stop producing those animal products.
It's an industry worth hundreds of billions, they can afford to retool their process to serve markets where people do not have the luxury of refusing cheap food. Poor people in the west would continue to eat meat, simply for lack of choice, especially when, with wealthier people no longer competing for it and offering 'prime cuts' to them for premium prices no longer being a sound financial strategy, it would become a lot cheaper.
And there would suddenly be a massive growth in western dairy farmers and cattle ranchers who (pretended they) found a conscience and decided to end world hunger by selling their wares cheaply in food-insecure areas of Africa, South America and Asia.
Farming practices, of course, would become even more cruel as a result of having to cut costs.
The most effective way to resist that cruelty and evil is to end capitalism so that farmers are no longer incentivised to put profit over the welfare of living things. The most effective way to resist that cruelty and evil *within* capitalism (insofar as that is even possible), is to be aware of what you consume and insist that you will only consume animal products that are produced with as little cruelty as possible (none at all being, of course, ideal, but probably untenable). If for no other reason than that in capitalism, you don't motivate an industry to do better by ceasing to consume anything they produce. The moment you stop being at least a _potential_ customer, they stop giving a shit about you.
@Robbert van Eijndhoven The percentage is 99.0%, you're right, I was slightly off www.sentienceinstitute.org/us-factory-farming-estimates
Otherwise, we agree.
You just elevated and cemented this movie in to my superlative canon. Bravo!
You are incredibly based. Thank you for being morally consistent and vocally vegan o7
Man, this was a really great video. I've always loved your content and knowing that you're vegan makes me enjoy it even more. Hopefully one day people will stop turning a blind eye to such widespread cruelty. Anyway man, have a great day.
Wow. This was just masterful. Speaking as the cowardly flavour (ha) of carnist, I've been on a full emotional journey and now I have to go and sit quietly and reflect. And bin all my cheese.
Eat your cheese. Don’t waste it. It’s milk.
@@helwrecht1637 Genuinely curious, how does calling cheese milk qualify as a reason not to throw it out?
@@astralaxI'm sure they mean, the harm was already done to the animal by harvesting its milk, so if you throw it away the suffering was for naught.
The act of eating meat or animal products isn’t really morally bad. It’s the pain that happened to get it. Once that pain has happened for a particular product, throwing it away will not take away the pain. Just don’t buy more in the future. If you purchase it, they will replace it, which causes future pain. So basically it’s a sunk cost for the stuff in your fridge, but not the stuff still in the store
@Dez Asher The suffering was already for naught. Stealing the breast milk of the tortured cow and its butchered calves just adds insult to injury.
Animals do not exist purely for our pleasure. They are not ours to do with as we please. Why not just... leave them alone?
Truly exquisite! Consuming this video left me feeling satisfied and morally superior for the next 3 hours. It even made me feel as if I were to change my behavior: as if I could stop consuming
I love how you specify the validity of different readings of this film. I think one of the things that make it so interesting is the variety of messages that can be analyzed from it, depending on what lens you decide to approach it from. It's simultaneously a story about queer self acceptance and a story about the evils of american imperialism, about the ethics of eating meat and about cultural appropriation. Its a different message nearly every time you watch it, and all of the messages are equally striking. I only watched it for the first time about 2 weeks ago (and then a second time.. and a third time...) and i havent been able to stop thinking about it since. Amazing movie, and amazing video. 😊
One of the best movie reviewes (and social commentaries) I've ever seen.
You’ve done some great videos, but this may well be the most intersectional analysis you’ve done. It’s been amazing watching your channel go from ‘hey wanna hear some cool stories about New Orleans’ to ‘Here’s a deep critical left-wing analysis of the themes of Ravenous, using big words like dialectic’.
First piece of analysis I've seen that has me genuinely considering going vegan, or at least vegetarian. Thanks for the very thoughtful deep dive on one of my own favorite films.
Vegetarian is easier. As long as you don't mind eggs and stuff. Pescetarian is catching on. Fish are barely sentient as it is.
But we still need to consider the “strip-mining” trawling approach that is ruining the ecosystem.
If you don't mind me asking, why?
@@soulknife20 Vegetarian is a good stepping stone and an advisable starting point. The reason you want to eventually transition to an animal product free diet is because buying dairy and eggs still financially supports the same meat industry that you recognize as immoral. As Atun-Shei pointed out in the video, chickens cultivated for eggs live in horrific conditions, and once they die are ground into by-product (spam, hot-dogs, etc). The obvious exception being if you have your own chickens that you treat well, or have a friend who does.
I do agree it can be really difficult to switch suddenly to being completely vegan. I was vegetarian for almost a year before I switched completely. You need time to figure out how to eat meat free first, especially if you were like me and ate meat as a part of literally every meal.
You should give it a try if it interests you but don't feel pressured to make certain changes if they strain your health or wallet too much for your liking. Also be mindful that many popular vegan foods like quinoa are grown under awful conditions for human workers and/or not ecologically sustainable. This is not to guilt you, as this is a larger systemic problem, but realistically you'll have to determine what you value and if you can reasonably live with the consequences of your choices, whichever ones you make.