Why Are NATO Tanks Equipped With The Wrong Tracks?
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- - Why Is NATO Using Rubber Padded Tracks For Heavy Offroad Terrain?
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Welcome To Survival-Russia. One of the very best Outdoors and Survival related communities on CZcams, and yes, It's a pretty good Channel too.
My name is Lars. I'm From Denmark but I live in Rural Russia now. I live at a Homestead in wild nature surrounded by a huge forest.
On The Survival-Russia channel we do all things related to the Outdoors Lifestyle. I share my thoughts and experiences on Survival Techniques for the woodlands of the Northern Hemisphere. the Reality of Survival. I share Techniques and ways of the Siberian Tribesmen and the Russian Longhunters of the older days. Things not shown outside of Russia very much.
On this Channel we also do Off-Road driving, Vehicle builds, Metal Detecting, all things Outdoors basically. Enjoy!
New "Tank" camping video is up here czcams.com/video/V6ldw_snhM0/video.html
It's probably red tape. No one can make the decision to remove them, waiting for someone higher-up to approve the removal.
This rings true.
I was thinking the exact same thing Jeff. Bureaucracy.
@arron4749 as long as it's literally...
@@taofledermaus He’s correct, though. It’s just doctrinal differences. The main issue here is that some of the nato vehicles are being used in the east, if the reverse were to occur, you might see disadvantages with Warsaw pact doctrinal equipment.
@@taofledermauslol
The rubber pads have rabbit foot prints on them, so anyone finding the tracks will think it is just a bunch of rabbits walking in a straight line.
😂😂😂
😂
The camel toe edition is coming soon...😂
😂😂
Hahahaha
The rubber padded tracks are called Road tracks. Its so they don't rip up the asphalt. They suck in offroad mud and crud.
He said that :) he is asking why they aren't being changed
@@r200ti they really dont have to be changed on a old vehicle thats not being used in combat
Its a dud sir😅
Removing pads voids the warranty :D
🤣👍
😂😂😋
🤣
I appreciate the humour EDDIE 🤣
very American 😀
I’m ex Canadian army mechanic. The only reason is because of paved roads. I have changed these pads and it’s very time consuming. They are a bit quitter too.
Lot of good the quiet tracks do when your are running them with turbine engines.
For a german PUMA tank it takes less than 2hours to change pads. I dont think thats time consuming. Washing it takes the Same time.
@@gosleep2860 1 the Puma is not a tank and 2 there are no Puma's deployed in Ukraine.
@@TheTryingDutchman Not only a MAIN BATTLE TANK is a Tank ;) served with the Puma, know What it is.
In Germany we even Call this category Schützen-Panzer because it has more armor that an "IFV"
@@ChaadFairservice20022 turbine engines, are much quieter than diesels. One of the advantages of the Abrams is that it’s so quiet it’s detected much later than diesel tanks.
Old ex US Tanker here. We had rubber track pads on the M-60 series tanks. They performed well on paved roads as well as off road. The track pads can be removed, because they are replaceable, but I NEVER saw a US tracked vehicle operating with the track pads removed.
ever same here
twice we removed the pads on the outside of the tracks for the AVLB's and CEV's. Why ice and once was for training in Furth due to ice and a second time in Graf due to the snow with a bunch of ice under it. now M1's they are not removeable. Now the ACEs (army armored dozer with the Bradly engine) we took them off during desert storm for better digging ability but had to carry them around and after the war was done started to put them back on.
Have you driven in the same type of conditions as in Ukraine? I mean when has the US ever been in a location with the soil and mud conditions like here?
@@Wifyish God, Holenfields (OPFOR training area in Bavaria) during the spring. OMG I watched an AVLB (M60 bridge launcher) slide down a hill ripping up 2 ft of soil all the way down, and M1's up to the hull deck in mud. We even got a hemmet (8x8 wheeled cargo vehical) stuck using the volcano mine launcher the one night. There was a week period that year just before they normally shut down the training area for the mud period. Remember in a tank if the infantry can walk on the ground without sinking you are good from sinking since an M1 has less weight per square inch than a guys boots. Then the best one, the front end of an M1 sticking the gun into the bottom of a mud pit with the ass end up in the air.
Yep, tanker in West Germany in the 80s. We were never allowed to take them off because they chewed up roads including the trails in the training areas. Even when the tanks slid into civilian buildings when doing road marches in the winter.
From Reddit:
"It's a tradeoff. The pattern on the T-series tracks act basically as ground grousers, in order to get better traction off-road. The tradeoff is that metal tracks will have worse traction on hardball, but they won't necessarily destroy the road just by virtue of being metal. They are worse for road wear, certainly, but a T-72 gunning it down the straight at 70 km/h will not instantly turn the road into rubble. Fun fact, you can actually lose traction with metal tracks on road and can slide (or even powerslide).
Rubber pads provide better traction on road, but by virtue of being flat, they technically provide worse traction off-road, although it usually isn't that much worse. Road wear for the same weight is gonna be better.
Steel tracks also offer marginally better performance on snow and ice, although it's best to just put the ice-grousers on for that in both cases.
Why the russians usually chose to go with steel tracks? The size of the coubtry means the infrastructure is less dense, so tanks are expected to be doing more offroading."
When thats true, tracked vehicle do more off-roading in this case - fields or wooded areas, it would make sense if working in urban areas but what I would go with is, that nobody just bothers to change them as it is 50/50 one way trip many times for any heavy equipment also the amount of work needed rathen than keep vehicles ready any time. Another question could be if they were supplied with metal tracks or if there is any stockpile of them cuz most NATO countries focus on training and moving on roads, but in contrast excercises in nordic states destroyed roads anyway.
I still have nightmares from driving a dozer on steep ice covered tracks
The rubber pads can be removed to improve off road traction. Usually that is not needed due to 90% of travel is done on roads. NATO war doctrine is to protect infrastructure auch as roads. Russia doctrine don't care about that much. This might be also due to the fact that fadt distances in Russia are traversed by train and not self propelled on the road.
My uncle was in a Sherman in WWII, in an Italian village the tank slid into someone's house while they were sitting down for dinner. It smashed through the wall and they just sat there looking at the tank cursing in Italian. No one was hurt just the house. It didn't have rubber track pads for the cobblestone streets.
Track pads are a pain in the ass to change but the ride is nicer on roads way less vibration.
As a truck driver I know it's hard to motivate and convince truck drivers to get out and put tire chains on when it snows and conditions are bad enough to warrant use. I also know it's equally hard to get drivers that actually put there chains on to stop and take them off after the storm is over and the road has been cleared. Maybe laziness is a component.
Former US Cavalry Scout here. The rubber pads are generally fine in most off road conditions, but the type of mud the Russian steppes have in the fall through spring conditions really would be better dealt with by taking them off, which they very much can do. The main reason to keep them on is if you are going to be switching on and off roads regularly, especially in mixed use units, where you also have wheeled vehicles like LAVs or Bearcats or whatever. Running without pads will churn up more mud, making it difficult for the wheeled vehicles to follow along.
Russian tanks are built for Russian roads. 😂
Which are krap.
Abrams tanks weigh 70 tons 140,000 lbs they would just sink in the mud. Ukraine has very little permafrost.
@@bobsimpson3661 Their poor roads have lead to large, well trained and supplied armies having gone there and died. Sometimes what we might consider a flaw here works to people's advantage in other regions.
@@jamesortiz5388 You're thinking of newer Abrams. The ones we sent are still heavier than a T-90, but only by like 9 tons, as compared to the 18 you difference with new ones. Tanks kind of work like ships, so weight has to be considered along with the length and width, and the track width is also important. The T-90 is a few inches wider than the Abrams, but the Abrams is several feet longer, so the weight is carried over a larger area. I can't seem to find specs on these older Abrams tracks or the T-90, but I would guess they aren't terribly different in width. I doubt even these older Abrams hull length fully negates that extra 9 tons, and of course they have the rubber pads on them, so yes, their performance in mud would definitely be poor compared to Russian built tanks that basically just assume they'll never be on paved roads. It was interesting to learn that the newer Abrams are equipped with split tracks that have permanent rubber pads on them. It has the benefit of now only needing to (possibly) replace half a track link, but, in my humble opinion, it seems to create more parts that can break down, so I don't see its tactical advantages.
@@bobsimpson3661 Russian tanks built for war and most action are always happening God knows where and not in the towns/cities/settlements, meaning permanent off road, mud, mud and mud. And russian tanks built mostly to defend Russia, so for russian mud, which is indeed much more demanding to move across then in US and Europe.
Russian roads was indeed crap till yearly 2000, now situation dramatically changed. Ukrainian roads was a bit better that times because of much softer climate wich destroys roads much slower when in Russia with its normal temps -30 +30C in most populated regions. But Russia spent enormous ammounts of money on roads (you can watch random street views on Google maps, for example) and continues to do that, while Ukraine doesnt cared about roads at all even before war.
Anyways tracked vehicles moved around most of the time using railroads or trucks to save roads and most importantly engine resource, which is quite low for every tank, so its really strange why ukrainians are still using this rubber pads on tracks.
Hello from Detroit Michigan brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us on your adventures through the woods and the grate white north
Everybody loves the Survival Russia "tank". It's awesome 👍
If only the GAZ factory would crank up production of the GAZ 71/GT-SM and make more, it really is an incredibly useful unstoppable "SUV". Everyone in rural Russia should have one
Nobody would be stupid enough to invade Russia without taking account of the unique weather, ground conditions and hardened citizens. Well maybe not apart from Napoleon....oh and that Austrian guy....
Apparently you can add USA to that list. They always lose wars. They are worse than the French.
@DOOMAO He is as sharp as a balloon! :-)
Get on your 🦄 😂😂😂, fighting in Eastern Europe is not for NATO...Sorry.
Whats so hard about russian weather? Snow and ice. Yea tuff shit😂
And Charles the 12th of Sweden
Greetings Lars. Ive been a Tank Platoon Commander for 12 years Leopard 2a6. Yes all the Rubber Pads can be easy removes and there are even extra Pads Out of Metal to Change Out for much more grip. WE never Drive without Rubber Pads tho Just to keep Tracks and offcours roads alive longer.
I drove a FV432 all over Germany as a Sapper in the sixties. We were constrained by not enough money to be able to replace tracks that wore out from sliding on the roads. I remember being threatened to be put on a charge because my rubber pads were worn down and I had not replaced them. My Troop officer had instructed me not to replace the pads because we had a annual inspection coming up and he wanted to save the pads to look good. We were also not allowed to use the filtering system at all because they had no spare filters. Of course when no one was around I switched them on for a few seconds just to see how it worked. Bear in mind we did a lot of road miles on the NATO exercises. Pads were good for the road. The metal tracks were sliding a lot especially on cobblestones. We did very little off road driving until we arrived on site for whatever task we needed. I meet some Danish Sappers at Hameln on bridging exercises and we swapped hat badges which was a good deal because our badges were plastic and the Danes had brass ones. I still have them to this day. I wore out the differential on my APC because of excessive sliding caused by the camber of the road especially when the pads were worn. Cheers.
The air filter box on MK1 432's could hold a couple of packs of herfy's as you say the filters never got fitted unless it was a crash out or FFR inspection the RQMS held them in the stores
From Quora:
"Western tanks often have rubber pads on their treads to reduce wear and tear on roads and other hard surfaces. These rubber pads also help to improve traction and reduce noise. On the other hand, Russian tanks often prioritize durability and ruggedness, and their treads are designed to withstand harsh conditions without the need for additional rubber padding. Each approach reflects the different design philosophies and intended usage of the tanks in their respective military doctrines."
in essence : they have chosen death
l translate: Western tank is meant to make money for the industry, have impressive stats on paper, look good on parades, be environmentally friendly and not cause disturbances on civilian roads. Russian tank on the other hand is made to win continental land war.
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Hi, Lars.
Thx for the video.
Video quality 1080p@60 demands pretty good internet connection, but in terms of viewer experience changes almost nothing. Plz let us watch your channel also in 1080p without 60 frames per second.
I am in the same situation as you))) I watch everything in 720 here lol@@user-qu9wk7ru7e
Hi Lars. I'm sorry if you didn't like my comment. I want to make clear it was not about against right wing but against the Anglosaxon_Zi***** empire. Anyone can be right wing inclined, nationalist, conservative, anti-globalist, anti-woke, that's legitimate and OK but N*** and or Z******, I'm against those. ATB from an Anti-Imperialist.
Это русский пикап называется у нас у деди был на дачи гтт 20 лет с 90-2010 , вещь в тайге незаменимая !
Great patch on your left arm! The glory Yugoslav army - Vojska Jugoslavije. Can I ask whats the story behind it?
As a former M113 driver instructor for the Belgian Army, we removed the rubber pads on a few occasions while driving cross country on the military training ground, and indeed it made a huge difference. Climbing trees and extracting the vehicle out of mud pits became much easier. On the other hand driving the APC at speed on concrete hardened surface became tricky. You really had the impression to drive on a ice covered road, and the slightest action on the sticks made the vehicle drifting sidewards. But with some training it became very feasible. Drifting at night on a concrete road was spectacular, as a huge amount of sparks were created while turning the vehicle at speed. Indeed, I think the best thing to do is to withdraw the rubber pads, traction will be increased significantly. Even using padless tracks in icy and snowy conditions increased significantly traction. We used the original US provided tracks connected by octogonal track pins, not the connectors as on the Diehl tracks (I don't remember the type code number of the US supplied tracks, pads were fixed with one center nut, not the German Diehl tracks were the track pads were clipped like on the Leopard).
I am familiar with the M113 of course. We used to ride one for fun and games on the training ground back in Denmark :)
I was recently on a 4 day trip to the forest in my APC seen in this video. I actually had to climb a bridge twice, which had been partly washed away by water from ice and snow melting. The bridge had been temporarily repaired with logs. Wet logs lol
I appreciate your comment.
Its a completely different mindset. NATO worries about damaging road surfaces and Russia worries about getting from A to B and winning a battle. I remember catching a crew of an RE engineer bridge layer in Germany doing 'doughnuts' in their tank on the tank park hardstanding so the steel grousers would show up on the road surface. This would allow them to stay out of the Engineer exercise for two days while they changed out all their rubber track pads (Chieftan chassis)
In Vietnam, we ran only every third track link was padded on the APC's, still padded for asphalt but enhanced traction off-road
That sounds like a genuinely good idea. That is the first time anyone have mentioned that here. Thank you
The steel “tabs or teeth” on tracked equipment can be welded on, or removed (cut off) from regular tracks. It’s called “corking”, we do it on equipment used for pipelining or construction during winter months.
Because NATO tanks are diverse!
Beat me to it😂👏
They identify as rubber tracked snowmobiles.
🦄🌈
remember the rubber to avoid hiv
🐇
The rubber pads are propably rusted stuck, so they are a bitch to remove. They propably too "lazy" to do it. I am also from Denmark. I was in self-propelled artillery (M109) and we had those rubber pads on our tracks also. We were told that we were only using the pads in PEACE TIME, in order to not ruin civilian roads and farmers' fields too much, etc. I remember we spent some days putting on new pads, because the old pads were worn out. They were (ofcourse ;D ) rusted stuck, and it was very tough to bash them out with sledgehammers. I remember having very blistered hands back in 1991 :D
Thank you very much for your comment and basically confirming what our instructor on the bridge layer told us. I think it is quite logic, that a set of tracks with "slick" rubber pads, will not get as good traction as tracks with a more off-road orientated thread pattern. Like comparing road tires to off-road tires in mud such. Mange tak og god weekend!
@@SurvivalRussia I lige måde! Fedt at du er flyttet til Rusland! Det ser ud til at du hygger dig max derovre! :D
Det spiller max! Rusland har sine plusser og minusser, som alle andre lande, men jeg har det fint her. Mange tak!@@mortvader
The pads have been on NATO tracked vehicles for so long that it's likely that nobody has thought about removing them.
they lost the knowledge . . .
lol, they have X pattern grousers that can be bolted on in place of the pads, by why would you want to wreck your own roads for the small advantage that they offer, it would be different if you were going on the offensive and invading, as you don't give a crap about your enemies roads,
Ukraine were given tanks for military parades.
Coming from a M1, M1A1and M1A2 tank veteran of Graf, Horensfelds, NTC,Iraq, and Kuwait along with many other places ,I can tell you I never had a problem with those rubber track pads gripping. I have climbed over logs, cars, trenches and somethings that should have never been climbed over. They are a good multipurpose track that are not without their downfalls , but hey everything isn't perfect!
Thank you for the input. For some reason, the Russian tank driver mentioned the rubber pads on the Marder as "not being useful," or something along those lines. I appreciate your comment.
Marine Corps M1a1 tanker here and we never had issues with the pads. We can turn and move faster than anything known out there in our weight class. They said when the m1 was first created they didn't govern the speed and the tracks fell apart. I'm sure the rubber keeps the metal parts from stressing as much.
The Wehrmacht's tank troops always said that until Operation Barbarossa in 1941. :))
All those places you mention are not muddy & wet like Ukraine.
My thought exactly.@@SilverforceX
I think I can answer thia question. I was a kid back in the 60's in the UK and we were surrounded by military vehicles. This was before motorways and most roads were just paved over roman roads. Our village in Wiltshire was right next door to an immense tank proving and training ground. When the Centurions, Chieftans and FV432's came through they totally wrecked the weak roads. So the general public rose up and demanded that when tracked vehicles where on sealed roads they had to have the rubber pads. As a 10-12yr old ('66-'68) I used to sneak into the training ground and steal stuff from the army. Rations, chocolate and what not. Once stole a bunch of the rubber pads to muck about with. Also shells. Had loads of spent machine gun shells and because the Chieftans use caseless ammo (120mm) we used to nick the plastic spacers used for powder charges - instant frisbees! Sadly it didn't work out well for several kids. I have a slight deafness in my right ear due to stealing stuff from a Centurion while it was live firing. Don't do this kids!
Love that chevron on your sleeve :) Stay safe kamerad, greetings from Serbia
Ja gledam vidim nas grb😂😂
Pozz iz Cg
Awesome video as always! Thank you for the years of great content!
I agree, the T55 had metal tracks, no rubber on them. Ex Romanian T55 tank crew member here. Rubber is most likely is for streets.
I was an Abrams tanker, and always heard that we could replace the rubber pads with steel pads with grousers. But I never saw a set... I can tell you this, the rubber isn't worth a SHIT on ice!😂
In the Bundeswehr every tracked vehicle has a set of ice grippers on board and they are used on a regular basis on the icy roads especially in the training areas.
rubber pads are better for on the roads, and also extend the life of the main track block by being able to be removed when they are worn down, and replaced with new track pads,, we were taught that that the pads were to come off during war time
As a combat engineer that is a good question
There was a fun video last week of a guy in Russia running a red light near a tank factory where the crossing road was the one used by brand new tanks going to the test range. The tanks tracks were stopped for quite a while before they eventually collided. So that might be one plus for rubber blocks.
I have seen some videos from that location too :)
Tanks will often drive on roads during exercises and transit between bases. NATO ordinances and local laws require the use of rubber pads, and since it's expensive and time consuming to swap out steel and rubber for combat and shuttling usage, NATO tanks stick with rubber.
I know here in the UK metal tracks on road are illegal, and for some reason this applies to the military, so I think that is the reason we use rubber tracks. If I'm not mistaken The Tank Museum did a video on rubberised tracks, but I know whey have released some questionable videos regarding the war and Russian tanks in the past, so I would take it all with a pinch of salt.
I'm ex 16/5th Queens Royal Lancers and we had pads on all our CVRT's through the whole of my career with absolutely no issues, even on exercise in Norway we'd cross through forest terrain with downed tree's in minus condition's without any drama. When based at Catterick after basic training it would be paramount to inspect the bonded pads in the hangers before venturing out as the local authorities would be onto the garrison 24/7 due to road damage.
In the late 1970s several US Tanks with radio antennas up made contact with powerlines in Germany killing the crew members and starting fires, SOP changes were made all antennas on all vehicles had to be tied down when moving, and new Tanks and tracked vehicles were given the new rubber padded tracks to lower the risk of electrocution and to reduce wear on pavement and gravel and reduce track noise.
Unless the crew were outside the tank, touching it, they would be fine contacting an electrical line.
@@paulthiessen6444 Tanks have been hit by falling HV power cables ( many Kv) and nothing happened to the crews as long as they stayed in the tank and drove away
You're right about rubber tracks in the woods, they're mainly for asphalt and gravel use
I was a guest and trained in the Panzer Division. Operating the tank over modest bumps felt smoother than a Cadillac. They trained me how to start the tanks. Turn and navigate over logs without jumping the treads off the rollers, how to drive in convoys day and night how to change tracks and how to load aim and fire the main gun. Firing the smoke mortars was fun to me. All in a training area Russia Ukraine area would be significantly different.
I’m a 22 year U.S. Army tanker, M60 through the M1A1 Heavy. Served in combat and never had an issue with the rubber pads. Never. There are actually longer bolts for the end connectors that we put in while I was in Germany that gave us better grip on icy roads.
The rubber pads were put in mostly for traveling down asphalt roads. Mostly to prevent the asphalt from being totally destroyed. But like any vehicle that travels through boggy terrain, russian or nato, they will get stuck reguardless.
Nato is not exactly known for common sense. .
ruZZia is also known for its moronicity!
Russian tracked vehicles have to deal with the "Rasputitsa". I believe that is the single greatest impediment to military mobility and logistics support anywhere in the world.
According to @TheChieftainsHatch CZcamsr the rubber pads have numerous purposes.
1. They provide traction on hard surfaces like roads. (Metal tracks have traction issues on pavement)
2. They absorb vibrations which extends the service life of the equipment. (It's not being rattled apart as bad)
3. They don't tear up roads as bad.
4. They don't get caked up with dried mud, and lose traction nearly as bad a metal tracks, and they can be changed out with heavier treads to add even more traction if needed.
One of the comments stated that on the M 113 one pad every second track link could be removed to offer better traction off road. We tried this configuration also, but that didn't give any gain as far as traction was concerned. One couldn't feel any difference while driving with all pads mounted, or driving with only 50 % of the pads mounted. The US provided tracks were supposed to have a life cycle of 5000 Km, so when these tracks arrived at the end of that, we took of the pads to offer this experience to our pupil drivers. In fact without the pads, the V shaped steel cams on the track links wore off quite quickly, while with the pads mounted, the only point of friction on hard surfaced roads was the rubber pad. One other comment stated that the rubber pads isolated the vehicle in case an antenna came in contact with a power line. I remember we met with such an incident while a Mercedes Unimog 4x4 light truck crossed an electrified railroad line with the antennas up. The crew managed to escape unharmed, but the truck burned to the ground on the ralroad crossing, immobilising the rail traffic for hours.
The answer is very simple:
All of NATO designs of tracked vehicles
Were created during the COLD WAR.
NATO had no operational war planes / orders
for active invasion / maneuvering behind the
IRON CURTAIN = USSR BORDERS LINE.
NATO hold only defensive strategy to hold the lines
In western europe - Germany, france, belgium etc
Against the waves of USSR ground forces.
For that NATO used the superior roads system of west eu
To deploy the tracked vehicles by self driving on roads
And off road maneuvers in the west eu country side - NOT
SIBERIA.
NATO and the WARSAW PACK were/still are
Women from venus Men from Mars.
Be blessed, healthy, free, independent and prosper.
My guess is they find It more important to protect the street than complete the mission
It's so the panzies,can drive them on paved roads.😂😂😂😂
That is what I said, but that does not explain why they keep using them off-road...
@@SurvivalRussia The pads are bolted on and over time they rust and smoo up. It is not worth the time to remove them. In the UK we don't have the exspance of terain to train. We have to move on metaled roads and the turns eat the road and us with vibrations. So keep the pads on. While on paper you get better traction with no pads. In reality I have never thought I should take off the pads to move across terain.
You were correct the first time. It's cause they drive on the city streets and highways. I have no idea why they don't have off road tracks to swap out. Mabey they were too expensive to get with the initial purchase.
1:25 Interesting, Lars has an old Federal Republic of Yugoslavia army arm patch on his left sleeve. Hello from Serbia, Lars!
They were demanding them from the 70s on all our tanks in the 70s onwards, for roads, quick to transport on the highway without damaging the roads, but strangely enough all our tank's were disbanded in the 2000, only wheels only, the Lav, 😊.
Interesting observation and a good tip !
Thanks for the video
No problem!
Thanks Lars, I have learnt something. And any day you learn something is a good day.
Not sure I would want to be a tanker on either side ? Those drones are a formidable weapon.
The evolution and future of warfare. Just like the difference from Napoleonic calvary charges to WWI trench warfare with crew served machine guns.
yeah i am not surprised and suspect few are, that drones would become the main way. soon nothing but drones and bunker hq i think. factory, missiles, drones and a few hq dug deep. nothing else besides infantry amongst the civilian pop.@@karl28560
@@karl28560 Next step is probably making Trophies etc. cheaper and be able to shoot drones down, shouldn't take too long tbh
Would you rather be on the receiving end of the 120mm shell coming from the tank's main gun? Tankers still have a better chance of survival, even with drones on the battlefield. Crews usually have time to evacuate, but the tank is done for. Infantry, or armor crews, that get hit by a round from a T-90 are more likely to be gone from this life after the first hit. And people seem to not know, or forget that this is no different than WW2. You have to have combined arms and air cover to have effective armor pushes. We still see that today. In the late stages of the war, German superior armor was shredded from up above and could only move at night or hid under trees by day, because the Luftwaffe could not defend them, and the allies were bombing and rocketing them from the air. That's how Witman was ended. And all up until then, tank losses were constant. Really the only difference today is we see fewer tank duels, and less traditional artillery engagement of tanks. So really what has been superceded here is traditional air cover, and anti-tank artillery. The artillery is replaced by ATGM's, and the air cover replaced by drones. The tanks place on the battlefield, and barrage artillery, are more constant.
@@LoneStarMillennial I had to check this and yes, Wittmann was KIA in an ambush by tanks, not airpower
because they are made for parades , not battle
Most US and EU tanks have even “transitioned” to wheels, because the real purpose of a trans-tank is to suppress rebellion back home…
You really are a daft trol. ruZZia uses steel tracks as easier to clean when driving over civilians
well 40 years ago when i was in German MP we always checked the track pads of tanks, because they used to get lost offroad and the tankers were too lazy to put new in 😁, guess nobody told the boys that in war those pads are obsolete, so they got that Marder stuck and left it there ready to get evacuated through Russian troops
The C team is running things...
Great topic Lars , nice to visit again, always a pleasure, thanks for sharing YAH bless brother !
Thank you Mike. Stay blessed brother.
The rubber pads are for traction while driving on paved roads. Our vehicles would do 60 MPH on paved roads, and never had any issues in the jungle over obstacles or up or down slope.
As a British tank expert said in a recent video dealing with WW1 tanks "all tanks can become bogged down, even a modern 60 ton MBT" & of course British tracks have removable rubber pads.
Many people have unrealistic ideas about what tanks and tracked vehicles can and cannot do.
Not just tracks but engines
I think it’s mostly because everyone fights the last war. I believe NATO was/is equipping armor to make use of highways in Europe in the event the Cold War went hot in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.
Just my $0.02 worth..
It's because NATO expects you to fight on there terms. How dare you fight in mud!!!! If you study the difference in Russian ground clearance and track width you can tell a lot about armor design from country to country
for a second I thought it was time to have the special camping operation.
Not too far into the future :)
That's exactly what I said rubber pads are only for driving on roads as not to destroy tarmac in the field your supposed to unbolt the road pads so the tracks can dig into the soil, I actually saw a Ukrainian M113 trying to get out of a tank pit and it's tracks were spinning in the mud trying to get up a very slight slope I thought to myself why don't they just remove the road pads. It made no sense to me, unless they weren't trained to remove them.
Big question is that since these are donated. Did any of the politicians think to send other types of treads. I mean these are all old surplus vehicles. Maybe they didn’t get sent with them. Maybe who knows.
CZcams forced me to watch this with relentless suggestions. Yikes.
From what I've seen, mostly roads in and around settlements are used during assaults and defending. Perhaps that's why.
Norwegian tank driver back in 1984 Leopard 1. Also rubber here to save roads. But i. winter on ice road they performed badly. Lots of tanks just slided sideways of road no traction at all. Had to wait for civilian trucks to spray sand on the roads. We also had metal pads with a big X pattern. The plan was to change every forth of rubber with these. But as I remember that was for war time only.
Yes the metal replacement treads with the x pattern are called growsers, we’ve used them a fair bit in Canada as the ground conditions are similar to Eastern Europe especially in winter. The rubber track pads are removable, but labour intensive and the mobility gain isn’t that much if driving on multiple terrain types.
I was in amtracs, the US Marine Corps' amphibious assault vehicle, and the rubber track pads never bothered our traction in muddy terrain. The only problem they ever caused was the work to replace them.
Mud is mud, most of the time and sticks to everything. Especially clay mud. I guess the pads are not that much of downside in mud, but... I would think that in wet muddy conditions, crawling over wet slippery logs or wood, the pads might reduce traction. As I said, our instructor on the bridge layer in the Danish army, specifically mentioned the track pads not being for real off-road conditions. Other Danes here mentioned that they were told that the pads are for "peace time only." Anyway, there must be some reason the Russian tanker specifically mentioned the rubber pads.
Just a bit of nerdy video for track driver guys basically :)
As an heavy equipment operator I was wondering the exact same thing they definitely are not able use the machines to their full potential and sometimes you need to get the hell out of their and with them slick tracks they are just going to spin out
2.1k likes to only 15k views.
CZcams is doing some shady and funky stuff my friend.
As per usual. 😉😉
Your emblem on the left hand is the emblem of the army of Yugoslavia.
Rubber would have a softer sound than metal. Maybe they are keeping them on for stealth?
My guesses before watching the rest of the video... Cost cutting or availability. To reduce noise. To prevent damage to roads. Shortages. Human error. They're for different terrain. Etc.
Didn’t realise this guy is participating in the war on the Russian side
Germany has special offroad trackpads often seen on the fron of the hull u can change these out and and have more traction.
Tank weight will push non padded tracks into the asphalt. Notice Tank motorpools are made from concrete and not asphalt.
Yes, I know they are for paved roads. I said so.. Using rubber pads off-road is not a great idea.
I watched an interesting video about early British tank development in the 1930s. They put metal pads on the tracks, but they couldn't climb steep hills on the wet grass. Just slipping and sliding back down the hill. They had to quickly drill holes and put metal screws to finish their demo for the top brass. 😂
I'd speculate that at least with some of the faster vehicles, they're left on in more situations because they help dampen track harmonics that would otherwise chew up link pins, road wheels, idlers, sprockets... and especially return rollers/guides with rear drive and all that untensioned return track slapping around. Abrams track links are even completely encapsulated in rubber so the road wheel runs on it too. There are ice cleats and grousers for all, though... and to be honest, with a vehicle as heavy and powerful as an Abrams, I probably would be happy sensing slippage and backing out of an area rather than having a super-aggressive tread and finding my vehicle sitting on it's belly with the tracks freely spinning in the two trenches I just dug. Grab a shovel, gonna be a long night...
Rubber pads are mainly for use on hard surface roads, better handling, less damage to the road, etc. For, off road, just remove them.
Don't care what anyone thinks. Russia hardware is awesome 👍
thanks for your infonation about the tracks on nato tanks !
I know from the Military they used Rubber Tracks on hared road surfaces and swap them out accordingly
The rubber pads can be replaced with steel pads for off-road and winter driving. But they are never used in peace time, so I doubt they were included in the delivery. I don’t think the tracks a supposed to be used without pads due to wear
Your 'Big Boy' was the first vehicle I contributed to! It is fine to see operating. I do wish you would feature it more on your channel.
James is awesome!
On the German tanks they carry “grabber” pads to replace a few of the rubber pads:
I guess the fitting for the rubber pads will get mucked up and it would be a pain to clean to get the rubber pads back in. So in icy or muddy conditions there are 3-4 grabber pads spaced out over each of the tracks so that 1-2 are constantly in contact with the ground to ensure sufficient grip. But that’s for peacetime operations.
I think that most of the tracked vehicles that you see are older and the pads haven’t been removed in years if ever. Could be the fasteners are rusted so it’s very difficult to remove them. Otherwise it must not be a hindrance to the performance of the track as it seems.
Armoured personnel carrier battalion in early 80’s in BAOR (British Army Of the Rhine) we were told they were just for roads in peacetime, however having changed a few pads we realised if the shit hit the fan we wouldn’t have time to remove them. Cross country in rain, snow mud and slush, we never seemed to have any trouble, we never ever tried without them so I don’t know if it would have been better without them.
Rubbers cheap, consumable for America, and they can get higher speeds with lighter weight tracks. Plus a few other reasons.
so american tanks are only for street use ?
They are set up to be generalists, able to handle all conditions reasonably well
Remember the first Ukrainian Leopard loss? It was in Poland. They wrecked a Leo-II on a simple driving exercise. The Polish officer who led the training course said he has never seen anyone handling a tank with such recklessness. It's very likely that the Ukrainians aren't really well trained. I would even speculate that influential units or soldiers immediately called "dibs" on the "fancier" vehicles, thinking of them as some cool new toy, or a fun way to fight while others are kneading the mud. It also explains all the stupidity they displayed around Robotyne and other places, leading to enormous losses. Simply put, the Ukrainian army sucks at combined warfare.
In fact we had two versions, the M113 A1 (green Diesel engine without turbo charger), and the AIFV (green Diesel engine with turbo charger)(AIFV stands for Armored Infantry Fighting Vehicle in the Belgian Army, some US visitors called it the mini Bradley, and in Holland the vehicle was called YPR-765, some of which can be seen in footage taken by Russian troops in Ukraine). The AIFV was in fact a M 113 A2 with additional armour, sloped sides with gun ports and some versions were equipped with a one man turret equipped with a Oerlikon 25 mm auto cannon. All the tracked vehicles in the Belgian Army were disposed off and replaced by wheeled vehicles, because the top brass in Brussels found them too agressive and too expensive. We did what we could to warn off against cross country limitations of wheeled armour, but to no avail. So you can imagine that tracks with rubber pads were the last of their preoccupations. The argument handled was often that in agriculture applications their was no need for tracks either. But once artillery has remodeled the landscape, wheeled vehicles become useless. I'm quite surprised that a lot of armored vehicles sent to Ukraine are in fact wheeled ones, like the AMX 10 RC or the VAB. I would like to find out to which extend these vehicles are useful to the Ukrainian Army. Seems to me that they are quite useless, given the terrain.
I don't think they had a lot of good use out of the AMX 10RC. They are very rarely seen in action. Not sure about the VAB.The UKR black soil is deep, up to several meters, and even worse than clay when wet.
As design engineer, I say:
How would you estimate the teams of design engineers from countries who considered Soviet Union / Russia their main enemy for 70 years, when their designs are not fit for the environment of their perceived main enemy ?
Russia was never their main enemy.
That perception was for the general population.
@@thulomanchay - - So, who was their main enemy during the Cold War and the Warsaw Pact? A lot of the Western equipment still used today, was designed in those years. That includes the Bradley and the Abrams.
@@FlorinSutu
Russia was never their enemy.
The vehicle will make less vibration- and everything will last longer.
Take them off- and you have Battle Tracks ( for max performance in tactical environment) but you will be on a much shorter maintenance schedule/ rota.
I had no idea you used to be a sapper (anti-mine I hope). That, my friend is a noble job. Been watching you for years! Josh from USA says "Hello!".
Bad DESIGN. On the M1 and Challenger 2, by vehicle weight, to meet "All Conditions" Requirements, they need to be about 30% WIDER.
Western Designers knew mostly they would drive on Hard Packed ground, so the Chosen track width, was "minimum required" to INCREASE PROFITS.
Profit over Purpose, the same problem with ALL Western Designs of EVERYTHING. "Just good enough" Engineering, is in fact NOT good enough, if you expect Function AND Longevity.
😊
Tracks need to be able to grip well, but what is also important is the ability to shed the clumps of soil from the tracks before it clogs up the track and make it slippery
I wouldn't be surprised to learn no steel tracks were laid in supply and the models with rubber pads can't get them removed easily. We're talking about the people that think insulating wires in armored vehicles with corn fiber derivatives is a good idea, after all.
Besides, some NATO countries are mountainous, mostly stony ground all over, like Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Sweden and Finland too, if I'm not mistaken.