Are Linux Tiling Window Managers Worth It?
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
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🎵 Music from StreamBeats by Harris Heller.
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Chapters:
00:00 - Tiling Window Managers
01:18 - What is a Window Manager?
02:07 - What is the difference?
02:53 - The contestants
03:10 - Sway (i3)
04:13 - Awesome
05:17 - Herbstluftwm
05:35 - What are the differences?
06:19 - Customization and Conclusion
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Description Tags:
tiling window manager,, window manager, linux window manager, dynamic tiling window manager, linux customization, linux custom desktop, desktop customization, linux swaywm, linux sway, linux sway tutorial, linux i3 customization, linux i3wm, linux herbstluftwm, herbstluftwm, linux awesome window manager, linux awesome wm, michael horn
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#linux #opensource #cutomization - Hry
Bro is speaking with question marks after every sentence?
HAHAHAHA THIS IS SO FUNNY
Wtf?
My guess is that he’s using the same intonation of his native language. Intonation is tricky, and unfortunately it’s probably the most overlooked aspect of learning a foreign language.
Bro has a question
Tiling is not about particular window managers, but about the concept itself. You totally can turn your favorite DE into a tiling window manager, e.g. by installing respective KWin script for KDE Plasma.
and for anyone looking,
Polonium script is best in KDE currently (since bismuth development stopped)
for gnome, i think it's Forge extension
I tried polonium but is not at the level of bismuth yet. The death of bistmuth made me leave kde and now I use hyprland @@vaisakhkm783
@@darthvader1191 he is not talking about TWMs , but just tiling....
standalone tilling window mangers are made for customization and is 100% worth using for that.... and no, tiling window managers don't look good... it's the added widget and panels that along with wallpaper that looks good...
then same can be argued about openbox, which is a floating window manager....
@@darthvader1191 I've used bismuth with KDE for a year (always had some bugs and polonium 0.4 was even worse) and recently moved to awesome. Never used window gaps or any fancy effects - they only reduce the workspace. For me it's 100% about the tiling
@@FakeMichau indeed, a tiling window manager starts with tiling as a basis so it should be better at tiling than other wm. That doesnt stop other wm getting as good at tiling as a tiling wm, it's just code after all.
Well stated. I like what POP OS did with theirs where I can swap between the two ways of doing Window managing.
You've got a point dude! I ended up reducing kde to the minimal
Once you get used to using tiling window managers, it's hard to get back to DEs, feels like there's no turning back. Hands stay on the keyboard, shifting workspaces, moving window to workspaces, tiling, tabbed, stacked, float, low resource consumption, it has everything you need. I'm currently using i3 for X and Sway for wayland, but i3 is my current daily driver.
It's the same for me, but I use sway instead of i3
I feel like I had lower ram usage on kde than i3
"Low resource consumption" man thinks we're stil living in the 80s 😂🤣🤣
it do be important sometimes@@jupiterapollo4985
did you measure the resource consumption?
Beside every benefit you get from a twm, I appreciate how "lean" you can make your system by using one. Clean arch install with configured awesome and basic apps every os should have is 460 packages whereas basic gnome install is twice that.
I'm sad he didn't cover Hyprland
Hyprland can be a bit unstable on Debian based distros which is the reason why it's not covered here.
I essentially looked for those who can be installed effortlessly, on most distros
on regular debian it probably won't compile because it has very old deps (unless you want to recompile the entire wayland stack, I guess) but IIRC it works just fine on debian unstable
@MichaelNr0h That's true. Hyprland is sadly only really made for Arch and NixOS. There are small groups of people sharing information on how to get it to work on other distros, such as Debian, but the chance of it breaking or not working is higher than it succeeding sadly.
@@smallclover Opensuse and Fedora also build well with Hyprland even with an unofficial Silverblue based image.
DWM for the win
I too share your opinion on tiling window managers. I couldn't care less about migrating and adapting to a new workflow when I have no issues with my current one.
How do you know you have no issue when you didn't try the other options before? Maybe you got so much used to it that you don't even notice or perceive them as issues but minor inconveniences or something inevitable.
I thought the same way as you before giving tiling window managers a try when I decided to switch to wayland and since then, I can hardly return to a floating window manager considering how practical features tiling brings that are hardly usable or reproducible on floating windows manager: due to the fact it requires you to use shortcuts, it forces you to use them and optimize/customize the use of your tiling window manager in clever way.
And I'm not even mentioning the level of customizability that I don't remember being possible on any floating window manager.
@@rigierish3807 I know I have no issue with my current workflow because I have no desire to migrate and adapt to a new workflow despite doing research on tiling window managers through the Arch/Gentoo wiki pages and looking up videos about them on CZcams. I also do not perceive anything in my current workflow as a minor inconvenience or something inevitable; I'm satisfied with the current arrangement.
@@caparazo3488 Do you use shortcuts? Like a lot of shortcuts, to switch from windows to windows, to easily switch to the last opened tab in your browser, to save or search quickly something, or use features floating window managers already have compare to tiling?
Because when I talked about minor inconveniences, moving the mouse through the whole screen due to the way floating window environment work just to do something that could've been done with a quick and already existing shortcut if you knew some, beyond Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V is part of them.
So unless your answer to that question is yes, you certainly can improve your workflow, meaning your current use is not ideal.
Again, you're just used to a certain way to use your PC, doesn't mean it's great or that it can't be better (if you would ever want it to be better, which is sort of a rhetorical question at this point).
So the real question is actually: do you want to bother switching to a potentially better way of doing things for you by having to relearn or learn new things. The answer probably being: no, from what you've just said.
I said the exact same thing until I tried one lol
@@jeremybowden3134 Funny that you mentioned this. I put together a Hyprland setup on an Arch system a few days after I wrote that comment and worked with it until a couple days ago. Budgie and Xfce are more enjoyable still.
For me, floating window enviroments have 2 main issues:
Windows get too cluttered over time and end up having useless top bars for window controls, although gnome fixed the later one by making header useful sometimes
Tilers have neither of these problems and also let me tune how exactly I use my computer, therefore I use them
Specifically hyprland, love that one
Mhh. But I only focus on ONE thing at a time. How can a WM be useful to me?
@@kier_eli you can move things to new workspaces with a simple key combo and have them efficiently take up the majority of the screen
@@FatDawlf Ajam 🤔 Well i will try with a dotfile for hyprland on arch
Thanks!
@@kier_eliEverybody focuses on one thing at a time, it's impossible to pay attention to two things at the same time, best you can do is very quickly alternate.
No, the advantage of tiling is that, on top of what the person above me said, it allows you to quickly and efficiently switch from one task/window to another and it forces you to use your computer efficiently.
When I still used a floating window manager, I would never use workspaces and shortcuts (or just the basic ones), now that I switched to a tiling window manager, I can hardly do without them and at least 3 of my workspaces are constantly occupied.
@@rigierish3807 Thanks for your well explained answer! I'm going to try a wm :) To see if it helps with focus 😆
For graphical applications, you can open two or three of them in different workspaces. You can easily switch between the workspaces. Idk why you didn't do that?
Btw you can configure wm to automatically open terminal and browser on startup. That's what most people use.
Didnt knew Sway comes preinstalled with waybar. You can also use other status bars and application launcher.
You can also configure desktop environment to behave like tiling, which should be easier for beginners.
waybar is a default on fedora sway
normally it''d be swaybar
I did the opposite and it took me a month just to fully customize my distro with sway to my liking(ended up copying some config files from minimalistic design from unixporn. considered myself cheating.
That's a nice point...I don't remember how it was for me when I first ran i3wm. Probably turned the laptop with the on/off button, logged in the openbox session and did a quick search on how to open up the browser or something xD I do love the D-menu
Yes, for sure. Have a cheat sheet of your WM. To know how things work from default. Knowing before hand how to open it up and exit are a must know thing.
The biggest trade of using tiling window managers (twm) is time (It consumes a lot of time to setup) but if clean, minimal and fast is a must then the trade of is worth it. ( Also twm stopped DE hopping for me ;)
FYI , I use debian 12 + dwm on my production machines and Arch + Hyprland on my gaming machine
yeah, it's a little bit annoying to make them look appealing enough. I started with i3 recently, and I actually tried to first learn how to use it before trying to rice it. It was worth it, tho.
Thank you, for a gd introduction video to Tiling . I'm a tiling beginner running antiX on a laptop & love it as far as I know. Why antiX because its a gd combination Floating, tiling Menus and settings access that teaches tiling usage at your own comfort level of learning. I learned the hard way to research tiling WM you want to try so you know how to get around, in & out w/o panic. LOL I'm thinking of installing antiX 23 testing version on my server box, once I learn howto format my hdds nvme
i really love about tiling windows managers, especially in Pop OS. using wide monitor it gives me more advantage by using tile manager
Am waiting for tiling realization from Gnome. Seems interesting for big screens
I like tiling window managers so I can keep my hands on my keyboard as much as possible. Being on the computer so long for work, it really starts to mess with my wrists going between my mouse and keyboard
Tiling window managers are great to use on notebooks, since they are much more comfortable to use without a mouse or touchpad. If you install deadmouse or similar plugin in the browser you almost never need to pull your hand over to the touchpad. Especially when you on the way or having the notebook on the belly lying on your couch, a tiling window manager is much more convenient. I use stacking window manager on my stationary PC and a tiling window manager on my notebook.
IMHO as a tiling window manager user for the past 5 years and more casually using it several years prior to that. I believe that they're not just about what they visually give you. For example, as a youth I was sacredly using Windows and I had zero control over my OS environment. Whatever shortcuts I could easily configure in Windows, that's the only "bling" I had. After diving into Linux and tiling window managers, one thing I quickly started focusing on was having a keyboard button for anything I wanted to do. This is what I believe made me stick with tiling window managers. I had to visit the configuration file and I had to see what options it gave me. Quickly I discovered the power of Linux and (I think?) tiling window managers (although it's not really what they're about, they're about tiling, but with it comes a need to discover configurations and change them). They're kind of niche applications that you heavily configure to meet your desires instead of just settling for what MacOS or Windows offers you.
I was talking about this back at the office today and what is the first youtube recommendation? Tiling Window Managers! by Michael Horn!!
If you want to tried a tilling window manager but feel scared about the keybinding, I suggest you can install manjaro sway, it have a full configured swaywm and it does come with the manual one the home screen, it's great for learning tilling manager, but yeah you forgot about hyprland,
Hyprland does not work in all distros flawlessly. That's why it's not in the list
@@MichaelNROH I'd still recommend giving it a chance, like installing Arch Linux with the archinstall script on a VM, it has Hyprland as an option for the "desktop" profile, which consists of different DEs and WMs
Great summary and demo
i cant get used to a new workflow like that, one of the key reasons is the softwares i use already need a lot of screen space, so i cant have less than a full screen for then, the other, well any gain of productivity i might have will take some time to get used to, and i dont have this time to try something new until im more productive in the new setup than the old one.
Tiling Window managers are most certainly worth it, especially since you can do a lot with them. They can look really nice, they are great for experts at keyboard commands, it’s great for those who aren’t interested in a desktop environment, and it’s great for those who want it quick and easy! It can be especially useful to computers with low ram, or they can’t really do much for a desktop environment.
I’ve used dwm for Void Linux on my Netbook, and it’s been a great experience! I do also have MATE installed as well, but it never hurts to have both a desktop environment and a Window Manager. I’ve additionally set up dwm on my Raspberry Pi OS install on my Raspberry Pi Zero W, and for a computer with only 512 MB of RAM, it’s pretty speedy and doesn’t use too much RAM.
@@courtneymertz4596 Good point actually. I did not consider the resource requirements of a DE vs tiling window manager. I have a lot of old hardware that cant run KDE well so using one of these might give it a new lease of life.
How can a WM be useful if I only focus on ONE thing at a time?
@@kier_elishut up and just use gnome.
I don’t like dedicated tiling window managers because of their funky keyboard-only paradigm (why have a GUI if you don’t use a mouse?), weird key combinations and even weirder ways to change them (learning a programming language just to change them, for example).
But you do you, and that is why Linux is wonderful; choice is in the DNA of Linux.
@grandy1955 For example, Ratpoison and DWM are the ones that require you to learn C or Haskell to configure them.
Thanks, I’d much rather have something like Pop!_OS’ Auto-Tiling feature: easily toggleable between that and floating mode, you can move windows with a mouse and the default keyboard shortcuts are not esoteric.
Don’t get me wrong, tiling is an excellent productivity feature, but dedicated TWMs are just not for me. I’d much rather have window managers that are a hybrid of floating and tiling features and tiling can easily be switched on or off.
@@commentarysheep I can understand, I only became interested in tiling window managers after I started to program with vim. The only thing I don't like about pop os tiling is that I can't change the mod key to alt
@@commentarysheep in most tiling window managers we can really easy turn off and on tiling ... just a keypress(use a mouse and drag).... and also have rule based tiling which automatically make windows like a popup window floating
And why programming language support is, to make custom work flows...
when i was using qtile, i defined layout such that a keypress will show a list of workflow (class, work, entertainment....) and
- if i choose class, it will open up my note taking app with corresponding date, MS teams for class, and a browser with my pdf text book. and arrange them neatly...
- if i choose work, it will open up a terminal with last session of tmux for work, browser with corresponding docs,confluence, and servicenow... :) and lofi music in yt
etc
one keybind for quickly searching text selection in google... keybind for music control etc...
i am fairly good at python, so making this work only cost 2 hours max... i would not recommend learning a language for it.... just pick one you comfirtable with... i3, sway doesn't need any language, and bspwm can be used with any language....
Honestly I’ve got so used to my keybindings I find a normal desktop environment foreign and slow for me now. I just tried gnome and kde this week, but just couldn’t get used to them. I think the best part of bigger projects like kde and gnome is their ability to provide solutions behind the scenes for things like game performance etc on Wayland. I notice with an nvidia gpu on Wayland gnome provides (somehow) really stable and smooth framerates without any issues in csgo at least, out of the box without configuration. On the other hand, a hypeland config can be really reproducible on multiple machines, leading to a consistent aesthetic and workflow that can be reproduced and tracked using a version control system much easier.
@@cenunix It may be good for you, but it’s really not for me. I’d much rather have my heavily skinned, but workflow-wise still Windows-like Plasma DE.
For me it all depends on the use. I run Arch Linux with Gnome DE. I tend to use it for most things. However I am a researcher and writer and tend to have numerous tasks going at once when doing the work, in which case I find the workflow of a Tiling Window Manager beneficial. So I have Hyprland installed for that reason. It's perfect for the workflow.
I have used a tiling wm for a long time but i switched back to normal desktop environments for half a year now and have no desire to go back to a tiling wm
A great option is bspwm, is fast, easy to configure and it's available for almost all Linux dittos.
NIce video!
I might check out the cosmic shell and the windows tileing for my personal debian build. I love Pop os but dont care for ubunutu. id rather just use Debian anyways build to my liking. lolz
Tiling managers seem great for older or not too powerful laptops which are mostly used for programming, remote stuff, browsing, editing, etc.
Mh, actually something that I didn't really think about but you are correct
Think of an small laptop you only take out to the coffee shop to work on that article. No interruptions, just researching and writing.
In fact, right now I am working on setting up an "Ohsidian Laptop" with NixOS at the core :-D
One of the best compromises (that wasn't covered) is KDE Bismuth. It was very handy before I heard the call of DWM again. It's not as easy to use in NixOS as other distros, so be forewarned.
That was my gateway drug as well 😅
@@FakeMichau
Gateway to DWM or NixOS?
@@davidturcotte831 twms in general, i'm on awesome now
Hahaha same, I configured bismuth with the same keybinds as qtile and once I got accustomed I transitioned to real twm
I like wmii, when it become broken I've configured Xmonad like wmii.
Xmonad is a framework to build tiling window managers.
using hyprland for one day now. I would not say I don't like it, but I don't see any specific speed improvement. There are even more animations than gnome and gnome does let you tile if you want to. On top of that, everything just works with gnome unlike in hyprland you have to configure every single basic thing. While I am fine with it, I don't see the big deal.
I am a developer. But I would say that a tiling window manager will not make your workflow faster unless you do a job that does not involve much thinking and involves jumping around between different apps. Most people work on or two applications at a time and use maximized windows.
Tiling on handheld (Steam Deck) should be default, and is so much more efficient for desktop use in this form factor.
I don't think Tiling Window Managers would be a great fit for the Steam Deck, mainly because of the screen size.
@@MichaelNROHWhen using multiple workspaces and having shortcuts to switch between them and move the windows to them, making it so you only have 1 to 2 windows per workspace, it would be extremely fitting.
Oh wow...Sway looks amazing!
i like kiosk-like window managers. like ratpoison and cagebreak. of course, you can split your screen if you really want to but it's not the same thing as tiling. i have very minimalistic linux systems installed and i only use the web browser and the terminal emulator anyways so all the other window manager and desktop environment options are very bloated for my use case.
i don't need a bar, i don't even need multiple workspaces honestly. i just need a window manager to open one window and render it, that's all.
as for gaming
i've never have any issue on tiling and wayland (I use sway)
maybe sometimes i have to move game to a new workspace and then fullscreen
I didn't expect them to fail in Gaming, since it's essentially the same as on any other Desktop environment.
If they are configured correctly, they should theoretically be even more stable since there are less dependencies which could break
How did u get DaVinci resolve working on Linux? I'm using debian 12 and I have a Rx 6700 XT and it doesn't work. First is the unsupported graphics, I fixed it and then the programs open normally but when I play some media on it it doesn't show anything
You need rocm-opencl and might also want to check for the codecs you are using.
Funny how the original Microsoft Windows 1.0 started with tiling windows back in the mid 1980s. This was considered a temporary step towards overlapping (floating) windows.
You seem to have the wrong idea of a twm. They are not meant to be used with the default settings. The whole point is to configure them to specifically work for you. Of course if tilling isn't for you, a floating wm is also an option. Like openbox. But again it is meant to be configured and not left at the defaults.
I'm a big fan of DWM and edited the source code to the point that I like it. Having my own personal build of it feels very satisfying! It's partly why I love LFS so much, I have a fully custom system with sometimes custom packages and nearly everything is source based, save for Steam and NVIDIA drivers.
Bro im newbie linux user i want to try debian 12 with DWM but i have no idea how install it , any kind of help !
I don't know the process for doing Debian + DWM as i do Linux From Scratch, but where I would start is look up guides on CZcams on how to get a window manager working on Debian, the replace the guide's choice of window manager with DWM. Look up guides on how to get DWM working. I think Mental Outlaw covers it in detail. If the guide to get a WM working on Debian uses a ~/.xinitrc, at the very bottom of the file, write "exec dwm". make sure there are no exec .. above the "exec dwm" line. Good luck! That being said, I recommend bspwm for a beginner as it's more simple to change its config files.
have you riced it?
@@MehMeh-mj5hn Not really besides adding keybinds and applying the window gaps patch. I did remove the bar though.
I love the concept of tiling window managers, but is it worth the effort of building your entire system from scratch just to have this feature? For me, definitely not. It's just too much work. As you mentioned, Pop-shell, Forge, or Bismuth are good enough. You can still keep your windows organized while enjoying all the benefits of the DE. I just wish auto-tiling window managers would become more popular to the point where DE developers take it seriously and embed it into the DE. That's why I have high hopes for Cosmic DE.
And this is the beauty of Linux!
What distro do you use?
Where can I find the wallpaper at 6:09?
Thank you for the video, but from my perspective you missed the one key feature that can't be replicated with KDE or Pop Shell: it is how multiple monitors are handled. Tiling window managers do it differently and in a way that is superior in my opinion.
Don't forget that even how a tiling window manager handles workspaces on multiple monitors can vary. For example like how Awesome has separate workspace/tags for each monitor. But qtile shares the workspaces between monitors. So even then it can vary based on preferences.
i love hyprland.
it uses wayland
also, you can use it with a mouse :)
(edit: you can use a mouse in any TWM, i meant that you can move windows arround like a floating wm)
Does it have keyboard shortcuts that make sense? If not, is it easily configurable?
If yes, I might have to check this out. If Hyprland has non-esoteric keyboard shortcuts, doesn’t require to learn a new programming langauge for configuring stuff in it and you can move stuff in it with the mouse, then Hyprland might be THE tiling window manager that has just fixed all of my complaints about previous window managers like DWM, Ratpoison, i3 and others.
@@commentarysheep hyprland is easly configurable.. no programming languages.. and it's beautiful by default..
The only issue is it's only currently offically supported in nixos and arch linux... because packages are too new for other distros to adapt.. :*( otherwise hyprland is one of the best twm ever...
@@commentarysheep you can use a mouse in every twm, and all their configs are pretty much clones of each other written in their respective languages, you don't need to actually know how to code in the language to configure the wm. maybe they just dont fit your workflow
@@Axify You’re right that TWMs and me are not friends and I hate the workflow of dedicated tiling window managers, but Pop!_OS’ Auto-Tiling is immaculate! Now THAT is tiling window management done right.
@@Axify I totally agree, you need to be ready to configure things at first.
Just started the video but I'll say it now. Yes yes they are. Only reason I use gnome is for pop os tiling feature or I'd be on kde. I wish windows had something like it. Closest thing I have on windows is powertoys which is pretty damn good to. Just doesn't tile it for you automatically
Tiling windows manager are useful to manage terminal windows. So I don't use them, I use Tilix a Tiling Terminal Emulator. It allows me to manage sub windows inside the Main Tilix Window. I can spit a window horizontally or vertically into tiling terminal-windows and I can do it many times and recursively.
I use Tilix mainly to manage my OpenZFS backups process, in general I use 3 tiled-windows one for my desktop and 2 for my backup systems through ssh.
And I use the standard GUI windows for File Manager; Firefox or my Win XP VM to play my music during the backup process of ~1 hour :).
"Win XP VM to play my music"
That's a Linux user all right
@@FakeMichau Well I installed and activated that VM with Windows XP Home in March 2010 and it is a nice relict from my past and WMP plays my music with WoW and TrueBass effects. It survived 2 Virtualbox owners; 3 desktops and 4 CPUs :)
@@darthvader1191 I disagree, most GUI apps need too much space to tile them and also in Gnome you can easily switch from work-space.
I have a question about tiling window mangers. How do they work with two or three or more monitors?
Depends on how you configure them. You can seperate the Screens and choose to only tile on the active one (whatever Window is selected).
You can tile across both monitors, whereas each Window gets tiles wherever it fits best (or where you see it fit best).
Or you can use multiple workspaces (collections), either for both screens or even seperated from one another.
I've use i3. It's ok but it gets tedious when a window like a dialog box opens in full screen and you need to adjust the windows behavior.
This is so true. Modern applications are just not made for tiling managers.
@@Woolong-ql1jh Update. I went back to a desktop manager. However, i3 is still installed. And I switch to it occasionally.
I tried Tiling WMs but it's not my cup of tea.
If I need tiling, Plasma by now has all the features I need.
Or my personal favourite, System76’s COSMIC desktop and its Auto-Tiling feature.
GNOME + Tiling Assistant = Heaven.
Thanks for the overview. This helped me realize tiling window managers are not for me and that's ok.
Yes! Next question, please!
How do I connect to Wi-Fi on a fresh install with i3?
There are also scolling w managers!!
Díky!
Thanks, I appreciate it
tiling tend to be anyoing when working with apps that require a lot of real state. Let say I have postman, vscode a console, firefox, so arranging workspaces is the only option, but when having a lot of ws, the purpose is defeated, given you can do the same without tiling , or regular side by side
Awesome is awesome. 😁
you forgot the most important thing about tiling window manager: they are more efficient and lightweight compared to des, like for example ubuntu vs ubuntu sway sway runs 10x faster on my dual core laptop from 2012 but ubuntu on the other hand consumes a lot of memory and as snappy as ubuntu sway.
Speed depends on the workload.
Yes maybe Windows load faster, yes maybe there are less resources used.
But whenever you run more intensive applications or games, then there is no difference really.
That also accounts for Web browsers that load video files
Love You
bspwm makes multi monitor easier
I use a tiling window manager with plenty of graphical applications just fine...
yes i don't get why he told can't use twm with graphical applications.. windowmanagers are for arranging gui applications right..
@@vaisakhkm783 in all honesty there are some apps that cause issues like polkit prompts and thunderbird notifications but for the most part their fine.
I said that it feels off, not that you can't use them that way.
My graphical programs are all being run in fullscreen mode and I got accustomed to never let go of my mouse when using them.
Tiling WMs mix that workflow up, which I don't like personally.
@@MichaelNROH mix up 'your' workflow is a fair point, but you cannot say twms cannot be used for gui apps, because it is for arranging gui apps.. (yes terminal emulators are also a gui app)
other types of apps, TUI /terminal apps, don't need window manager, there we use tmux for similar workflow
@@MichaelNROH Honestly sounds like you didn't quite the "spirit" of something like awesome. And therefore expected something different but got burnt when those expectations weren't met (and I don't blame you, will come back to this later). With awesome for example, if you don't like something, some app doesn't launch in a way you want, you want something to behave differently - you edit rc.lua, and NOT just move to another twm. In my option, that's one of the biggest reasons for moving to a twm in the first place.
It's just like with moving from windows to linux - you may expect a fairly user friendly experience where most of the things are familiar and you don't need to configure much BUT after installing debian for example you may quickly realize that's not the case. And then you start to distro hop to find something that suits you instead of trying to adapt and configure the system to your liking and preference. All because your expectations were unrealistic.
And I don't blame anyone for having unrealistic expectations because most stuff they hear probably comes from people that glance over things like configuration or needing to adapt your mindset just to make whatever they talk about sound more "user-friendly", "better" and easy. (One of the reason I openly say Linux is NOT user friendly, may discourage some from trying Linux but at least they might not hate it when they do)
As an i3 user, I feel very satisfied
7:01 that would defeat the point of a window manager. It should manage your window and nothing else
I use Arch + i3w btw ;-)
yes
For me, tilers are the only solution for sane working on multi monitors as few Desktop environments have one desktop per screen behaviour.
There was a patched openbox version I used for a while, but it was fairly crashy, and Gnome gets close by having only the primary screen switch workspaces, but it's still not as flexible as most tilers in this regard.
Gnome can handle different workspaces for each monitor btw. It's just the default in the settings
I got used to a WM in about 2-3 days
I don't think I could go back
Everyone has different preferences
please put a de-esser on your mic
those esses are really harsh to hear
What about dwm and sway ☹️
Floating windows make sense to me, thanks to decades of using that format in Windows. Switching would involve a lot of accustomizing myself to the different setup, and I just don't see how a tiling window manager would be any better for me.
I also use max 2 windows in 1 screen with minimal switching, and 2 screens overall. So tiling isn't offering anything better. But it's good to know the options in case our work flow changes in the future.
More options is always better 😊
Honestly, the biggest thing is just getting used to using all of your workspaces. Floating window managers usually have multiply workspaces, but I don’t see it utilized all that often.
Agree, after using i3 for a while I got so used to workspaces, that after switching back to de like Gnome I still use workspaces all the time, they're just too good. Maybe I'll switch back to wm, but now I'm too lazy to customize all that stuff, after a couple of weeks of customizing everything I need a rest
@@acclorite_ They're actually great, I would much rather use more workspaces then tiling up my screen, unless I actually need two programs running on the same workspace.
@@kobeneilson6717 Probably, I don't miss tiling much, but after using workspaces for a while, I can't live without them. The only one thing that I miss is a stupidly large amount of customization on WMs
The hype land setup goes crazy
Yeah agree, desktop manager is a bad name, it should be called login environment manager LEM. I see many people get confused with Desktop Environment.
It’s a tricky one.
by default sway uses dmenu as an application launcher (called with super+d) so u dont have to open anything in a terminal
in some distro sometimes it is swapped for wofi
Can u share the wallpaper thats on your system?
browsecat.art/sites/default/files/minimalism-sunset-wallpapers-52691-48430-6514248.png
For me! I'm graphic designer, the tilling window manager is out of point. I use heavily drag-n-drop and other feature ... so the tilling window manager, I assume is best for scripters
@@darthvader1191 are you experimented this, or just say because you believe it?
I use a tiling window manager (xmonad) and drag n drop works just fine in it and every other window manager I've used.
Could be Wayland's fault if the WM uses it. I constantly have some dragging - dropping problems because either I'm doing it to fast (dunny why I have to hold the file for longer), or the Program doesn't load the contents, even though it seems to import for a short time (e.g. drag and drop to DaVinci Resolve from another workspace)
Was not that bad when I tried them out, now i cannot go back to windows.😅
honestly I'm not the biggest fan of tiling window managers, I like when it's organized and that's what it gives me, but everything becomes too small when you have a LOT of apps open at the same time (me) (discord, spotify, web browser, teamspeak, another web browser, office, kdenlive, settings, mpv, file manager and vpn and torrent and also terminal 2x).
You do know that tiling WM have an infinite amount of workspaces? I only use 2, 3 max apps in one workspace
fair enough, forgot that existed since I got 3 monitors, which is a constant headache for me but I cant go back now@@jeremybowden3134
u can tile or float in wm easy. most full DE run floating for the most part. Gnome can tile, dunno how effective that is, but its GNOME for gods sake, who uses it?
I used Awesome with compton almost over a decade ago because I had garbage hardware and could not afford and it was a life saver. Now just because I use 64GB RAM I have no need for them. Tiling Window Managers will always be GOAT. Once society falls apart only Tiling Window Managers will rule.
Case Closed.
Who says that you are automatically, overgeneralized more productive or more effective with a TWM?
It's by design since you always have all Windows open on one desktop without any additionaly work.
Is someone is faster themselves depends on how they operate it, but the UX design is meant for that
@@MichaelNROH The point being that by principle what is effective and productive depends on a lot of things and not (only) on the design of the UX. And it is also not (only) depending on the person. It is hugely depending on the workflow which is due to the work you have to do. So the person who designed TWM designed it to be effective for his style of work and specifically to his work (which was most likely programming and coding and thus actually not what most people work on a PC). Hence saying it would be (in general) effective and productive, or even be designed to be that in general, is obviously an overgeneralization.
@@little_forest you are missing the point... all TWMs (standalone)are highly configurable to fit your need... yes their is a traidoff in initial effort... but then it's really effective once configured for your need...
i was a long term twm user, but currenly on plasma... plasma could never match configurability of most twms... (means it is exponentially hard to have your own workflow you might need to make plugins and kwin scripts.. while programmming langs in twms can do most things in few lines of code...)
and non-overlapping window arrangement is effitiant for everyone... that's why even windows/plasma is added tiling, and even gnome is experimenting with it
@@vaisakhkm783 Then e.g. is it possible to configure a TWM so that there is no need for keyboard shortcuts but instead effectively usable (in any possible scenario) with mouse inputs? Or e.g. add bars? Or is it e.g. possible to configure a TWM to have dynamic workspaces? And all that without any need for any kind of programming skills.
@@little_forest it depends on which twm, for example, all this are available in hyprland, fully usable with mouse by default... (no programming langs)
also, dynamic workspace is the default behaviour of i3...(another one without any programming language)..
more advanced configurations only need programming...
like my qtile have a config called 'class mode' which opens up MS teams, notes with current date, all my textbooks in zathura and a browser...
and i have a 'work' mode, which opens up confluence, docs, terminals with my tmux sessions neovim session already loaded, email in browser (it's my parttime job)
it also have things like a keybindings that could search currently selected words anyware could be searched in google, nice integrations with tmux, so that there is no context swtiching between tmux and twm and neovim buffers...
Yeah, tiling is nice. Until you throw the GUI into the mix.
5:13 "gaymers"
personally I don't prefer TWM. I use softwares that ain't made for TWM. For example CAD software.
Same 😅
can someone explain me what is wayland
Wayland is a display protocol which basically transports display information around.
With a Wayland compositor, which of course composites an image, it is responsible to transport image data
RTFM
Nah. I have tried it for a little short amount of time, and I think it is waste of space for most cases. Maybe it's only good for specific cases like a special type programming where you have to see the entire contents of two windows at the same time. Other than that, why should I waste of my already small screen space by making all windows show their entire content on the screen?
Yes. They are. There. I answered before watching.
I'm a WM user.
They increase productivity: yes, by 0.0000.... you get the point
I only use them because they're fun, I got used to them now, I wouldn't stand clicking on the very tiny edge of a window just to resize it yuk.
🦆
My pc cant bspwm 😢
All Distros with it can't install and booting with it crashes my pc.
have you configured bspwm (with sxhkd) before starting it?
@@sudoharun yap, iv done all and set start bspwm in .xinitrc
Hyprland?
If I want to tile my terminal I am satisfied enough with tmux.
Tiling and terminal multiplexing are not the same thing. Perhaps from a very surface level people consider tmux as "tiling for a terminal", but its most useful features have nothing to do with the ability to split a screen into multiple views. Sessions for project management and splitting SSH sessions into multiple views without more connections are what I use it for most. If I simply need another terminal that is unrelated to the first, I would rarely use tmux for that, and just use the window manager.
Normal linux users: SDDM is KDE's login manager and should called that
Micheael: KDEM is the proper name for KDE's login manager
?
4:32
@@tntredstone Yeah, I called KDM a Login Manager instead of a Display Manager.
This isn't SDDM.
Lol I thought you were wearing graduation 🎓
forgot to mention hyprland, the only good looking tiling window manager
(that was a joke, please don't raise your pitchforks xd)
Эти все программы не оптимизированы для показа в таких маленьких окнах. В некоторых окнах был виден один значок, что не имеет никакого смысла. С окнами приятней работать во весь экран. Что убивает весь смысл тайлинговых оконных менеджеров. Может быть когда-то, когда все использовали терминалы и редакторы было и удобно, но не сейчас.
Before watching video: No
After watching video: No
tbh This video was so mediocre that I would expect some people to go from Yes to No
You are deliberately skipping the best WM because you have to type "sudo make clean install"?