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Carbon vs. Wood - Comparing the Sound of Violin Bows
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2019
- In this video we compare carbon violin bows made in Germany, USA and China with two wooden bows. While playability is always at play, we try to focus as good as possible on the difference these bows make in the sound of a fine violin.
The Chinese carbon bow in this comparison looks quite nice, featuring a fancy outfit and a nice finish. We found its sound and playability is not much different from the American bow that costs quite a bit more. Both bows are made using a similar technology that results in a resin content of the stick of around 60%, only 40% being carbon fiber. The result is that their weight is pretty much the same as that of wooden bows, though the wooden bows in the test are actually lighter resp. heavier than the average 60 grams.
The testing also includes some Müsing and Arcus bows, which are made in Germany. The Müsing bows are made in a process that allows to reduce the resin content to about 40%. This allows the stick to produce a similar range of overtones as very good wooden bows. The Arcus bows go even further. Their hand laminated stick has a resin content of as low as 20%, offering a unique resonance quality.
Using a fine modern violin from Oliver Radke, we play some very short passages to directly compare the sound these bows draw. With some not too bad speakers or headphones you should be able to hear some amazing differences.
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A big thank you to the fabulous Alexander String Quartet for letting us use their fantastic performance of the Dvořák Piano Quintet in A Major, Op 81 - III. Scherzo:
/ @alexanderquartet
I just bought my new bow. This video helped me formulate my demands.
The maker and seller at the shop gave me the simple useful advice: first go for obvious elimination of some bows based on your starting preference. One should know in advance some important demands that he is after and do preliminary elimination to fulfill that.
For myself, I have come up generally with these corner stones when choosing a bow:
1) depth/beauty/harmonics on G, D-A, E. They have to be balanced, and wanted.
2) sound strength on G, D-A, E.
3) sautillé playable
4) upbow/downbow staccato bow range. (or any other stroke one prefer).
5) play several frases from personal repertoire. How is the total impression (sound + control/ ease of use) ?
And yes, important things when bying at less prominent places: first check very carefully if bow is conplanar (straight in one plane) and if bow curve in the middle is pronounced. Generally repaired used bows should be avoided if intended for serious long time music implementation.
Again thanks very much for the video.
So you have not tried some Arcus or Müsing bows before making the purchase?
You really should have more subscribers than you currently do. I subbed and look forward to seeing and hearing your uploads. Thanks for your professional work !!
-Mark, Australia.
Thank you, @Skinny_Karlos! We do our best to make everyone happy!
Fascinating. This is the most in-depth video on this topic I have found. This discussion of the nuances in bow construction and the differences in sound produced is very helpful for a noobie like me. However, one nuance that I would have liked more information on is the reaction to changes in humidity and temperature: I live in Florida, so having a bow that can withstand our swings in climate is important in the swamp state.
Climate? Well, that's an easy one. Properly made carbon fiber bows are not affected at all by humidity or changes in temperature. Sure the hair changes length a bit, but the stick retains in camber, never warps and most importantly does not change in its resiliency/elasticity the slightest bit. This is by the way a quality that many players have found to be extremely helpful when playing in a pub our outdoors.
I have an S 5 bow that I have for almost a decade. It sounds very synthetic. I played a few wooden bow that cost a quarter of the s5 and consistently , people listening to me all said they prefer my wooden bow sound.
Hi Nic, I assume your violin has a somewhat bright sound which does not fit a bright sounding S-bow. It would miss warmth and depth. I would recommend you go visit your Arcus dealer and ask to try some T-series bows, or even P- or M-bows, which bring out much more warmth and depth. Many Arcus shops offer a trade-in policy, so that might be just the right thing for you.
A very helpful video, thanks. I felt like I came away with a better understanding of how to judge bow quality than I had before.
I like the "there is no perfect bow" idea especially.
Thank you very much. It took me many years of research and development to come to the conclusion that "the one ideal bow" can not exist. Not even the one ideal bow for a given instrument or player or even that one players with that one instrument, because you change your playing style a bit of play different music and hey, everything changes. Just recently I wend from playing octagonal P-series violin bows to the M-series. For the past 1o years or so I have preferred the relatively stiff P-series, but only some months ago something in me has changed and now the more flexible M-series just work so much better for me. We humans are weird. :)
TY for this video. I'm starting to research my next steps for a bow on cello, and the comments about cheaper carbon fiber bows being kind of grittier and less responsive validated exactly what I've been struggling with.
Did you get your hands on some Arcus or Müsing bows?
my brother is trans and is a complete wanker... so i generally just get mad when i see the flag...
Thank you for such an in depth evaluation. I used to think that the only purpose of the bow was to keep the hair in tention. I had no idea that it could affect the sound quality at all. I could really hear the difference, your high end bow sounded the best for sure, well done.
How about a factory tour video?? Sure everyone would appreciate that. Thanks again.
Thank you, Truth! We will try to shoot a video of our ARCUS workshop one day even though we won't be able to show all of our genious "inventions"...;-)
@@ARCUSMuesing could you at least give us a hint about what these "genius inventions" might be? Carbon forging machinery? Automatic presses (to stamp out bows en masse) or lathes that turn out many bows at a time?
Or are they all hand made somehow? Since they are carbon I imagine the process to be more like making a sword!
@@liamnevilleviolist1809 Yes exactly, they are all handmade, from the beginning to the very end, each and everyone of them.
Wow! What a presentation. Incredible! Thank you.
Thank you!!
Fascinating. Thank you!
I like your video ! I'm a beginner violinist and I've got both a fiber carbon bow (I don't know the fiber carbon pourcentage in it) and a wooden bow. I wanted to own both types of bow to figure out what will work for me. My favourite by far (the only one I use now) is the wooden one which is also quite heavier. The fiber carbon one I've got is much much easier to play with, like make you feel you can fly over the strings as you play, very freeing senstation, very clear and "pure" sound, whereas the wooden one was at first definately harder to handle, specially at the frog and all around it is very sensitive to the pressure you put on, you do have to put the exact needed pressure for it to sound good, so it requires a lot more of fine control. It is more difficult to be confortable with then but it is totally worth it because the sound you get out of it at the end is so much more powerwul and richer. So out of my two bows I prefered to learn how to handle the wooden one in pushing myself to be more precise in my bowing. Now I'm actually also able to appreciate very much how this higher sensitivity (which was getting in my way at first as it didn't hide any of my bowing mistakes) is now something helping my playing by giving me a wider range of sounds and subtilities, like every intention you give will be transmitted to the instrument and heard. However I like that I learn about different fiber bow qualities in your video, I'm now even quite curious to try one day a fiber carbon bow with a higher fiber carbon pourcentage in it.
Hi Elise, thanks for your comment! There are indeed big differences among carbon bows, and some of them might be easier to play and some of them aren't. When it comes to sound though there are not many carbon bows that have that rich sound you describe - many of them sound rather dull. That's one of the reasons why we invented the ARCUS bows, to combine both advantages (and many more :-)): Good playability AND amazing, brilliant and rich sound (just like - or even better - than the most expensive wooden bows). At the same time they're extremely powerful and light which makes them the perfect choice when you suffer from pain in your bow arm.
Really?! I bought a carbon fibre bow and it’s significantly heavier than the wooden ones. It’s great for a full-blooded sound, (eg. romantic era stuff), but I generally dislike it for baroque or early classical period music, which demands a lighter touch, the carbon fibre bow does sound absolutely amazing on the g string though, it doesn’t require much effort to get that dark sound out.
@@brysoncheng7574 Thinking about "carbon fiber bows" as being a family of closely related products is like thinking "wooden violins". I'm sure you would agree that they can be vastly different though they are all made from the same materials are very similar in dimensions and design. That same is true here. The Arcus and Müsing bows are completely different animals from those things I prefer to call "plastic bows" as they consist from more plastic (resin) than carbon fibers. That relation is usually only around 30 to 40% fibers and 60 to 70% plastic. The plastic/resin is what ads the weight and damping, rendering the sound dull and dark. In the Müsing bows the fiber content is around 60% and in the Arcus it's 75 to 80%. That's why our bows are so much lighter and more resonant. Their overtone range exceeds any wooden bows.
Now if you talk to experts in composite technologies they may tell you that such a high fiber content is quite impossible to achieve, which is exactly what we've been told 25 years ago and which is why we had to start our own production by developing an completely new technology of making bows.
Bernd Müsing Ah, I see. I recently purchased a wooden French bow which costed a fortune cuz I got tired of the carbon fibre. Maybe I should buy a carbon fibre one for a different sound as well? I’ll check your website out:)
@@brysoncheng7574 When you play one of our upper grade Arcus bows - brace for a very, very special experience. :)
The trio test at @13.00, 3rd position on the A string, the wood bow (in my opinion), clearly sounded better than the carbon fiber ones. On all examples. Apologies, my only gripe. Other than that an excellent, and informative presentation. Thank you.
Do you play the violin? If so, find some Arcus bows and try them against wooden bows in a similar price range and then tell me again what you found. I've done this test with hundreds maybe more than a thousand players over the past 22 years and 3. position on the second string is almost always the eye opener.
I would have liked to have seen/heard in closing a comparison of the richer sounding wood bow with the best carbon fibre. I was able to stop/start and compare, and while the projection of the carbon fibre bow was better, I still found the wood sounded warmer with a richness. I appreciate what you say about choosing the one that you like best because you spend the most time with it. Even though I play cello, I found this tremendously informative. Thank you.
Kara, our bows are available through many shops around the world. Maybe one is near you, so why not give them a try and see what you find out yourself? Regarding "warmth", that is something we can influence with the design of the bow. For example our M-bows sound warmer/darker/deeper than the S-bows.
I agree. If you're happy with just the higher notes, you can skip between 3:17 and 19:44. It would be nice to hear each string though, as with the others.
Such a good video, that is what I was searching for!
Thanks!
Thank you very much, BRO/KE! We are glad you like it and hope you can make good use of it.
This was so helpful. I am reconsidering a new bow from a beginner bow to more intermediate and would prefer carbon as long as the sound and quality is commensurate. Thank you!
Maybe one of the MÜSING bows would be ideal for you. As for the sound you will find that you would have to spend several times the money to get a wooden bow that is a match.
Fun fact: The logo on his T-shirt actually means “bow” in my language ! Coincidence ??!
Hehehe, yes the word "arcus" is originally Latin and means "bow". But maybe it has found its way into a modern language like so many other words?
ARCUS Müsing I am from Romania and the violin bow is called “Arcus”
@@ClassicalAmboo Great to know, thank you for this information!! As far as I googled now, Romanian is the only language that still uses the word "ARCUS"...That is really interesting! Thanks for sharing
@@ARCUSMuesing Back in the day my latin teacher actually explained us nowaday, among the Romance family languages, romanian is the closest modern language to vulgar latin,
@@ARCUSMuesing In spanish the word "ARCO" is used for bow (violin bow and weapon bow boht) I suppose that the origin of this word is "ARCUS". Sorry if my english is not the best.
Great video. I am an adult beginner. Had a carbon bow that came with my $700 violin. Bought a wood bow on AMZ, $25. I vastly prefer the wooden bow, mainly the sound. As you mentioned the difference I heard was the upper ranges. I had no idea the bow would be so different., Thank you for your thoughts/suggestions.
Actually, the difference would be even bigger than you can imagine. Do find some Müsing bows and give them a try, you may find you don't wont to live without one. :D
It would perhpas help if you gave the brand and the model of the bows you actually compare your bows against. It'd help put the test into perspective. But very informative overall, thank you very much!
I have tested a vast number of "normal" carbon fiber bows, including several of the tree American makers and plenty Chinese bows with and without branding. Many of the Chineses bows comes with fancy names, but they differ very little from each other in my experience. So in the comparison of the sound it really doesn't make much difference. The fundamental problem with all these bows is that their resin content is around 60%, which is the cause for too much damping in the higher frequencies.
I have to be honest, I prefer the wood bows. There's a humble quality to wood bows, and yes colours too, subtlety etc... but sometimes they can be a bit quite. When the first carbon fibre bow was played I thought "okay... we are losing sound here, but perhaps it plays easier".
Some people will shake their heads at wooden bows and say "no, carbon fibre has power and great functionality, especially when trying to play a concerto with an orchestra or heavy sonata with a grand piano". Even though I only use wooden bows, I would have to concede that many carbon fibre bows will do much better than many wooden bows of the same price.
I was stunned (not in a good way) when the last bow was tested. I thought "here we go, it's going to have all the colours of a wooden bow, but have a light enough weight to let the instrument vibrate freely and sing to its full potential!" but sadly not. One thing that did come across was that it sounded very even in comparison to the bow before it. All the notes were the same richness and volume. I see on online stores though that the top Arcus bows go for about $8k or $9k?? Is that true?? For Australian's looking at the price tag, after converting it, we are looking at at least $11000!! That is an incredible amount compared to many other bows available and I don't know where that price comes from.....
Arcus are a legitimate innovative company that produce probably the best carbon fibre bows. But I can not see where $11000 comes from. Sorry to say. I have recommended these bows to many people (and know rich colleagues who have them and are very pleased with them) but the price tag puts them off, which is a big shame. Even shaving off a few thousand would likely change their mind and I don't know whether or not the Arcus/Müsing company would consider this drop in price. This company seems successful enough without dropping prices, but I'm thinking of the many musicians who would love to use these bows but can't afford them.
Arcus COULD take the music world by storm by being more affordable and maybe make a huge profit in that change. I hope I am not out of line in saying what I'm saying, you are the business experts and you clearly put in all the hard work to make the company as successful as it is! I respect that greatly. I am just giving you my opinion as a performer (and potential customer!)
All the best!
Hello Liam, thank you very much for your deep thoughts and for sharing them. I understand that you are astonished at the prices we are asking for the 9-class bows, and I'm quite sure you will be even more astonished when you hear that these are the ones that are often sold out.
If you had the chance to play a full set of T-bows for example, you would find that the sound of the T4 (1,750$ Aus) would be a match to wooden bows two or three times its price. The T5 (1,600 €) plays in a league with the most expensive modern bows and second tier old French master bows at a price range of about 5,000-20,000 €. When you come to the T6 you will discover that it is a match to the most expensive great old master like Tourte, Peccatte, Voirin, Simon, you name it. The T6 is 2,300 €, which would be 3,600 $ Aus., Let's say you pay 60,000 $ for such a fine bow, then the T6 is only 1/16 of that.
This brings us to the T7. This is where the fun really starts, because if you compare the sound with any other bow (except an Arcus), no matter if the acoustics are good or bad, it will always win in a blind audition. The T8 is another step up, and the T9 another one.
What has happened so often is that professional musicians initially purchase a mid-range Arcus as a second bow. After some time they find out that they only play with the Arcus, as it allows to do many things that wooden bows don't, and which you simply don't want to miss any more. And then they come for a second round and end up buying an 8- or 9-class Arcus.
Regrading the price of the 9-class bows: Only about 5% of our sticks achieve this level, and the demand for them is very robust. I admit they are pure luxury, no musician needs one. A 6- or 7-class is all that you would ever need, but still, once you have played one, you will want it.
@@BogenmacherD the T6 already is a match to Tourte, Peccatte, Voirin, Simon???
Precisely.
Fantastic explanation. I am searching for bow and will use your advices.
Thank you. Glad to hear that we could be of help!
I purchased an Arcus S6 from an online retailer today, immediately after watching this video. My only trepidation was whether I might perhaps like the Musing C5 better for my own fiddle and playing style. Alas, I may be doomed to always wondering, without having a chance to compare them side-by side.
Hi Sam, I can understand your doubts but I suspect the Arcus S6 fits your playing style better. The strength of the Müsing C5 is its capability to bounce easily, so it would be good for bowing techniques like Spiccato and other classical bowing techniques. The S6 on the other hand is very strong, fast and loud. Many Jazz and Blues fiddlers around the world actually play with an Arcus bow and are very happy with it. Let me know if you have any more questions! Have fun playing with your new bow!
Thank you for this informative video. I bought a violin starter kit, a stentor student 2 outfit, several months ago and I am already looking for a new bow. Edited the violin outfit I bought
Did your violin starter kit include a bow? What is your current playing level?
@@ARCUSMuesing mine did include a bow. Still around beginner level
Just advertised with a 'fully mounted wood bow'
@@IanOcampoPodRider2016 Did you try a Müsing bow already? They are very good for beginner level.
@@ARCUSMuesing not yet. I will try to get one as my next
The carbon fiber bow (min 6:00) not yield some frequencies (compared with wood bow) thus it sound more empty or lax. On the other hand, the ARCUS bow sounded very good
Yes, you are probably right about the frequencies. Thanks, we're glad you like the sound of the ARCUS ☺️
I could hear the difference between the bows and liked the Western deeper sound bow. The chinese like a higher sounding music. Which I do not appreciate. Good video. Personally other than the Chinese bow any bow would suit me after a few hours practice.
Thank you, Paul. Maybe any bow would suit you after a few hours of practice, but only one would sound really amazing (the ARCUS). And after a few hours more of practice you will notice that it means much less shoulder/bow arm pain to play with the ARCUS. 😉😉
Hello Mr Müsing and thank you for your very informative videos!
I'm a violin student looking for an upgrade for my brazilwood bow. A professional player has told me that, while carbon fiber bows have made huge progress over the past years, they do not recommend using a carbon fiber bow for studying, because since carbon fiber dampens vibrations less than wood, playing on a carbon fiber bow for long periods would cause more stress to the finger joints, and possibly even damage in the long run. So they recommended getting a pernambuco bow over a carbon fiber bow. We're talking about the $500-$700 price range (so, e.g., Müsing C2 or C3 vs a similarly-priced pernambuco bow).
Have you heard this criticism before and what's your opinion?
Hello, thanks for getting back to me regarding ergonomics/vibrations/fatigue. The short answer is that the Arcus and Müsing bows reduce the problems that many players have substantially. They have allowed many players to play free of pain and discomfort that had serious problems with wooden bows. The long answer is that this has to do more with the frequency of the vibrations than with their intensity. I have explained that is a different video: czcams.com/video/7vFgPDX_xFA/video.html
10:4 "that is very similar". Maybe i am just being snobbish but the wooden bow sounds a lot better to my hears. More medium, warmer and more noble. Thank you for this comparison sir.
I just listen to your wonderful playing czcams.com/video/5hJFfpbUcG4/video.html, really nice! You may be right, that the Arcus C3 sounds a tiny bit more rough than the wooden bow (which would cost several times as much). But just one class up, the M4 sound clearly more beautiful. And more powerful too, by the way. Of course there is always the problem with the compression on CZcams, the recording gear, your speakers,... Have you ever tried some Arcus bows?
@@ARCUSMuesing Thank you for your nice comment. Never tried a carbon bow since a very long time. I will if i have the opportunity though.
This is fantastic!! I have been searching for a video like this for weeks, exactly the information I need to consider when I buy my new bow. However, what if I am unable to try them? With certain unfortunate lockdowns, how can I decide? Thanks so much!
Hi Andrews, many dealers offer to do send a selection of bows to try out. Do you want to write us an email to info@arcus-muesing.de? We will be able to give you more information.
It seems that carbon fiber bows are objectively better than wood ones now and days. However, it is quite interesting how we haven't found a similar thing with the violins. Frankly, I rather keep the violins wood
Carbon fiber is a material with huge potential, but is also very difficult to understand and to master. I find that carbon fiber instruments are getting better over the years and also think there is still much that still needs discovering and developing. I expect that over the next decades we will see some very interesting stuff comming.
This short review of Daniel Blair about his ARCUS S7 also provides some good arguments why you should choose a high quality carbon bow (like ARCUS ;-) over wood. czcams.com/video/cC3C2pWWC2g/video.html
I'm on a island with no way to test bows and only listen to recordings. What bow would you recommend for a 1yr beginner Cellist who will never stop playing? I'm only able to purchase online. Thank you.
Thank you for being interested in our bows. You can either have a look at our websites and contact us through them: www.arcus-muesing.de/en and www.muesing.eu Or write us directly an email: info@arcus-muesing.de. Where exactly are you living? Maybe we there's a dealer nearby that can let you try the bows.
Ich finde es gerade sehr faszinierend, dass gute Carbonbögen scheinbar wirklich gute Einflüsse auf den Klang haben können, Carbon-Geigen aber bis dato sehr gewöhnungsbedürftig klingen. Sie die einfach noch nicht ausgereift oder resonieren sie zu gut und klingen dadurch weniger angenehm als Holz, das bestimmte Frequenzen verschluckt?
Eine Frage, die mir noch kam: Die Bögen innerhalb einer Serie, egal ob Arcus oder Müsing, sollten ja relativ identisches Spielverhalten liefern und sich "nur" im Klang unterscheiden, oder? Sprich: Wenn man weiß, dass man bspw. mit einem C3 gut klarkommt, wäre es das gleiche Spiel mit einem C5, nur eben mit klareren Obertönen?
Es gibt schon einige sehr gute Carbon-Instrumente, finde ich. In unserem Laden haben wir seit kurzem eine Geige von Carbon-Klang und ein Cello von mezzo-forte, und beiden kommen bei unseren Kunden sehr gut an. Die meisten sind regelrecht verblüfft, wenn sie sie anspielen.
Innerhalb einer Serie sind unsere Bögen schon recht ähnlich. Manche Musiker finden die "kleinen" Unterschiede die es gibt vernachlässigbar, andere empfinden sie als sehr bedeutsam. Ich persönlich liege da auf halber Strecke und mag manche Bogen schon lieber als andere von einem Typ.
If you play a violin that is valued at over $2000, a better bow can make a huge difference. i.e. Keep the the $2000 violin and spend $1000 on a bow that will make your violin sound better than a $5000 violin you were looking at. Of course, a better bow may mean spending $1000 or more. The weirdest part of this is that even two identical carbon fiber bows can sound different. I tested two Coda Luma bows and one was significantly better on my violin. The associate who was helping me was equally surprised by the difference in the sound.
I think the quality of the horsehair and resin is more important than the weight of the bow.
Thanks for your comment. The quality of the horsehair is important, you are right. But there are also a lot of other factors that contribute to the quality of the bow, like the stiffness and balance of the stick. Only the perfect combination makes the perfect bow :-)
There is so much I would like to discuss with you on this topic. But I would literally have to write a book to discuss all of my thoughts. Ha ha. It would be a discussion much better had in person over coffee.
Hello George, I'll be happy to make you some really nice coffee if you come to visit us in Würzburg and would love to have a chat with you. I assume you have played a wide range of bows - does that include some Arcus or Müsing bows?
Not sure what his comparisons are but my Berg carbon fiber bow from 1998 is a pretty good resemblance of my Dominique Peccatte. Not sure about the fiber vs resin ratio or even whether they still make Berg bows but worth checking out.
I have played and studied some Berg bows in the past. They sure look great, very similar to wooden bows. Their weight and elasticity was pretty much like wooden bows too. In our test their resonance quality came out similar to our lowest category at best. But maybe they have improved since. But it seems they find a customer every now and then and are still making a few bows every year. I just checked their website and found that they are also making frogs, which actually look really pretty.
@@ARCUSMuesing Since you bring it up, can you define resonance quality and how you measure it?
@@midnighttutor Resonance quality is comprised of several factors. For example the "smoothness" of vibrations, which is something you can not measure, but hear and feel. Then there is velocity of sound, which can be measured easily with the proper equipment. But the most important is probably damping (the lesser, the better). That can be measured, but it can also be tested quite easily by comparing several specimen. This is what violin makers do when the hold a piece of wood between the thumb and a finger and tap it. That is also how bow makers test raw sticks. The damping of pernambuco is at around 0,4% - 0,6%, which is also where the sticks of the Müsing bows are. "Normal" composite bows have a lot more damping, as their resin (epoxy) content is much higher, ranging from around 0,7% and over 1%. Arcus bows range from 0,1% to 0,4%.
Listening on good quality headphones, I could barely tell the difference between any of the bows, with the exception of the last one (on the left of picture) which made that violin sound completely different (and amazingly good!).
There comes a point when the feel and response in the player's hand is just as important as the sound.
@@gutbucket260 This is true.
The cheap bow is ok for most people, except you're a soloist because the mic is really focused on you
@@kristof9695 When I was a boy I almost stopped playing because of my bad violin and bad bow. They made it impossible to play and sound like my teacher even though I was practicing quite a lot, which totally frustrated me. Some strokes just would not work. Luckily I was lent a rather nice violin and my teacher lent me her second best bow, and I kept going. I think that many students stop playing because of their bad instruments and bows. When you check the career of successful players you will notice that most of them not only had very good teachers, but also rather good instruments and bows very soon. I have observed the same with amateur players of all ages - they will play a lot if they have a good bow, and rarely do if their equipment is bad.
Same here, and I have very good quality headphones and sound card.
What are your thoughts on carbon instruments? I notice you're using a traditional wooden violin. I ask because having heard both for my instrument (cello), I prefer wood. Does this timbre and character preference have any relation to which bow material a player might prefer? Or perhaps to the grading for your bows? (S, M or T).
Hello Rob, I think carbon fibre composites are a fantastic material to make instruments from. Over the past years I have seen quite a few of which I did like some, others not so much. But that is not a question of the material, but to match our preferred sound with the right design. I think that we will experience a steady evolution and maybe some day they will not only be more durable and reliable, powerful and easy to play, but also offer the most beautiful sound. Maybe that will happen in 20 year, maybe in 50, who knows?
@@ARCUSMuesing Thank you for your thoughts.
Omg thats a hell of a difference
Thank you! We are also always about the difference it makes but weren't sure if it was clearly audible in the video. So thanks for the feedback!
@@ARCUSMuesing glad I helped
I like the videos but honestly, you're so quiet I need to max out my volume just to barely hear you talk
Was just about to say something similar. The audio balance is quite terrible.
Yes, unfortunately we had some mess up with the microphone that day...Really sorry about that!! It's probably better if you listen to it with your headphones on. You'll also be able to hear the difference between the bows clearer.
As I was watching this for the 2nd or 3d time I wondered if Chitin would make a better binder than Epoxy? I did a quick search on google on found there is a lot of interesting research being done on this. I can really begin to see the future of affordable violins and bows as being 3d printed Carbon fiber/Chitin resin.
You can't print "endless" carbon fibers as we use them in our bows. Short fibers don't offer the level of strength that we want in our bows. The very low resin content is also only possible to achieve in a high pressure system, which, as far as I know, only we apply. 3D-printing is basically zero pressure.
But, you never know which new technologies might be available in the future, but rest assured, we are always on the cutting edge. :)
I bought a fairly expensive carbon-fibre bow last year. The tip snapped off after four or five weeks. I've been wary of carbon fibre bows ever since.
Hello Greg, now that's very unfortunate. I assume that has been a Chinese carbon fiber bow? We have cut up quite a few of such sticks and what you find inside is that the fibre orientation is pretty chaotic, which can lead to failure any day. When you say it was fairly expense, how much was it and did you get it replaced? The Arcus bows are made with a fibre structure that is absolutely even and straight and they come with a 30 year warranty, but they are actually made to last over centuries. When a carbon fiber bow is properly made it is hugely more durable than any wooden bow, by the way.
@@ARCUSMuesing I've bought so many bows in the last few years that I can't recall the particulars, except that it was, as you rightly guessed, Chinese-made. I'll have to try an Arcus one of these days. Most of my bows are Pernambuco, somewhere in the $200 range, although I've spent more on the instruments I practice on.
I think I've spent far more on bows than on instruments . . .
The angle between his desk and the cabinet behind him hurt my eyes
Unfortunately, there's not much space in our shop (but the best background)....😉
@@ARCUSMuesing i Hope your channel going bigger and you can expand your store space... Amiin :)
@@Phitaq1987 Hahaha, yes thanks.
Great video!
What could you say about CodaBow Prodigy CB-SPA4G? And what was the name of the bow from China?
The Chinese carbon bows that we have don't bear a name. I purchased them at the last MusicChina in Shanghai where you can find 20 or 30 small companies who assemble carbon bows and wooden bows. They are the nicest ones I could find. As far as I know all these small businesses buy the sticks from one big factory. There is a huge variation in quality from one stick to the next, so a name would not really provide any relevant information.
Would the M series violin bow be a better match for an old violin with wound gut strings?
I mean the Arcus M series.
@@marymckenna5524 that is possible, but if the sound is very warm and you want more brilliance, the S-bows might do even better.
what is difference violin bow and cello bow
Well, kind a everything? Weight, strength, balance, all dimensions, tuning,... Like what is the difference between a cello and a violin, right?
I wish I could tell the difference! Unfortunately, the sound has to go through your microphone, get digitized, and finally coming out of my speakers. I'm sure you can tell the difference with the fiddle right under your chin, and maybe somebody sitting in the room with you could tell the difference as well. I've got two bows that make my fiddle sound different. The lighter one makes the instrument sound "brighter."
Hello I.M. Have you tried listening with some good headphones? Maybe the speakers are not cutting it.
Well If you compare a $2000 wooden bow with a $149 carbon fiber bow, is the comparison honest ?
No it's not, but we did not only compare to cheap Chinese bows that retail at around 300 € here in Germany, but also US-made bow with a list price of about 1,000 €. The Arcus M3 in this video has a list price of 900€. At 9:30. Only at 18:30 I come to the P9, but that's more than 8,000 €. :D
The fittings on the violin don't really match the varnish. Probably should replace it for some darker tone wood and it looks pretty dense and heavy.
It's a matter of taste, I think it's looks really really nice
That's just a trick of the light. :)
I dont really like carbon bow its to light that it slides way easier
Which is why nobody can play an even lighter baroque bow? Where did you get that funny notion from? Maybe it' some experience that you have made with light wooden bows? They are so weak that they indeed go sideways when you try to play hard/loud, but not an Arcus bow. Over the past 22 years I have never heard such a comment from a player. But maybe you want to tell us more about your experience. Maybe also let us know which instrument you play and which bows you have tried. (With which I don't mean playing it for 2 minutes in a shop with people staring at you).
Chemically youre comparing the same thing brother
Wood and carbon fiber are not chemically the same thing.
Long live Wikipedia. Here is the chemistry of wood:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood#Chemistry
Our bows are made from Carbon and Epoxy resin. While Carbon fiber are almost pure Carbon, the chemistry of Epoxy is rather complex:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoxy#Chemistry
There is no difference in sound. Period.
The bow maintains tension on the hairs so that the hairs can cause the violin strings to vibrate. Whether the bow is made of wood or stale Twizzlers, sufficient tension on the hairs will produce the same sound.
Adjust ur hearing aide & report back!
@@ratherrapid
Take your anti-psychotic medicine then come back and tell me that bow material affects the sound.
It’s basic physics, you idiot.