Honestly I was disappointed when I wasn’t starting over and over again with the first puzzle when I played the port. The twist of it being YOU the player getting better at the puzzle BECAUSE you knew the solution when Junpei technically didn’t was so powerful to me.
It was your video that inspired me to introduce my close friend to 999 through the original DS version and not the port! Maybe I'd squandered my own experience a bit by going port first, and that was kind of a downer, but the idea of doing it right for someone else's first experience was so exciting I just had to try. And she loved it!!! I did find myself enjoying the dialogue so much more when characters weren't constantly pointing out the obvious. I remember, too, at an early puzzle she said something like "I hope I get to do sudoku at some point" and it was the funniest thing to tell her "so remember how you wanted sudoku" when the final puzzle was revealed. Little moments like that could never have happened if we were playing the port. So thank you for making that video!
Thank you so much for putting this into words and doing it so eloquently. I really wish somebody would crack the Steam version of TNG so it could get modded to match the DS version as closely as possible
I find it funny that I found this comment while watching Zero Escape videos since I've been doing something similar. I ripped the files of the PC version and have been remaking the very beginning of the game in RenPy with the DS script, as a proof of concept personal project. Unfortunately I doubt I'll ever finish it because of the time it would take, and I doubt it'd be legal to release. If only the PC version could be modded 😔
@@Hannahnana1312 I don't know if you'll see this comment, but please, PLEASE finish this. I am DYING for this kind of project to be done, in any way it can. I would chip in for you to do this, and I'm sure others would too, although maybe you wouldn't want to take any money for said legal worries... But the offer is there from me 😭😭😭 I just want a more faithful mod of the port version so bad, it kills me that nothing has been tried so far...
@@ProPinkist wow I wasn't expecting a reply to this, kinda forgot I left the comment. I did the very opening right before the escape room then sort of gave up because of a bunch of pain points, such as I'm not sure how to implement an escape room in renpy, and that all the ripped files have no organization at all at least with the way I was able to rip them (QuickBMS). For example 000010ba.png is one of Clover's sprites, and 000010bb.png is one of June's. Everything gets dumped into a single folder with filenames like that, and theres almost 7000 images to sort through. I think I could learn how to do those complex things in renpy and do the tedious work of categorization, but it's hard to find the motivation when I don't know if this can be released to the public, especially if I have to do it alone and unpaid. I saw the Umineko Project where they remade Umineko for the PS3 in a custom engine using it's assets and they seem to be doing okay legally, although I'm unsure if all it would take is the copyright holders to actually take notice or if they're actually safe. They also don't take donations because of that fact. Sorry I can only leave a rambly comment, its just a tough situation :(
@@Hannahnana1312 I actually made a visual novel myself in renpy last year, out of an existing light novel. I only had/have extremely basic coding knowledge from classes I took at one point lmao, and I know what I made is nowhere near as complex as 999 would be, but I do at least have a little experience with renpy. I have a lot of free time on my hands, so I would be more than happy to do the tedious categorizing work for you, and any part of the actual coding process if you could teach me what to do, if that would help motivate you? Two people is better than one~ I’m also a part of the Uchikoshi discord server, so maybe I could get some more information from there about the files or anything else. As for worrying about copyright, we could always keep it between ourselves… I kinda don’t think Spike Chunsoft would mind a personal project like this, they seem pretty active in and close with the community, but that’s just a gut feeling. At the very least, I would feel proud just seeing it completed on my own, but I’d understand if that alone doesn’t make it feel worth it for you. Asdghfdg now I’m the one rambling, sorry 😭 But basically I’m totally down to help you out and lighten your load, if you’d like that! We could figure it out together~
@@Hannahnana1312 the only problem in making escape rooms would be inventory objects and interactions with them - no support for 3d models in renpy, there is only 3d camera. so no turning them around.
I'm still always going to recommend your 999 video to anyone who plays it, port or otherwise. It really is a completely different experience. I played it through the port specifically because of the QoL features and VA (and no restarts, playing sections multiple times sounded super unappealing to me), even after a friend recommended (really heavily suggested) the DS version. I played the port and thought it was alright. I really didn't understand why the twist was so impactful to some when to me it kind of just happened without much setup or precedent. I thought it was just a personal preference thing but watching your video was enlightening, and I finally, really understood why people like 999. I don't care what people say, the changes made really do differentiate whether 999 is a 9/10 or a 7/10 for me. Don't play the port if you can play the DS version.
"The nagging feeling that people are having a good experience instead of an incredible one" Damn, that sentence puts into words a feeling that I never quite knew how to voice. This video is not good... it's incredible.
So true... it's always the same with remasters. Or movie adaptations of books, anime/manga. Often the original product is what the author really wanted it to be and as such it's almost always better.
while the writing changed for the port definitely made it awkward and well bad, i MUST give props to the voice actors doing their best with the cringey butchered version of the dialogue, but also some genuinely amazing moments of voice acting on the part of Evan Smith. particularly in the Safe Ending. also, i have next to no patience when it comes to visual novels. though thats probably the adhd. i love them to death but im not replaying the entire thing over and over to get to a good or true ending or to see all the endings, especially if each route is hours long. nah, if a VN has saves built in, im saving at every dialogue option and loading a save when i hit an ending, because i will get bored and close the game and then it will sit collecting dust otherwise. i know you brought it up but i still feel the need to say my peice on it. like, i think the best experience would be a modded version of the ds ROM that adds in the flowchart. i'd miss the voice acting from the Safe Ending and certain other key points, but i think it would be the overall best way to play the game.
I had a really great time playing the Nonary Games version of 999 (voice acting muted, voiced it with a friend on Discord) but your videos made me sad that i didnt play a version without those writing issues that annoyed me 😞 Excellent videos by the way, it was a treat to watch such high quality videos about this subject!!
I haven't seen your original review of the game, not even the spoiler-free one, because a friend recommended this game to me, and I like to go into my games as blindly as possible. I was rewatching your ff2 review and then saw that you uploaded something new, so I thought "Might as well". I'll send your review to my friend, though, cheers. (He played the DS version)
I saw your video about a year ago. Almost immediately after watching someone play through the entirety of the port of 999 having only watched half of a playthrough of the original almost a decade ago. I was in love with the story and wanted to share it with my sister and your first video on the port is what convinced me to spend the extra on getting the original. I have to say I agree with you almost 100% and I'm glad there are meticulous people like you to give some perspective on what is lost in the port. One of the best parts of our playthrough was putting on voices for the characters (though I felt my Santa and Junpei voices weren't distinct enough most of the time.) I love the voice casting for the port but you're right that there is something to be said for reading them yourself.
Just watched both videos and I can't tell if I didnt notice the bad dialogue or ended up becoming numb to it, but having it pointed out like that made me realize how unnatural it was. I found it hard to find Junpei likable at some points, and I wonder if the constant talking might have had anything to do with it. I also find it sad that I could have had an even better experience, like you mention, it was good, but it could have been even better with some of these things that have been left out. It sucks that its a trend where ports or remake end up being done at the sacrifice of a different experience than others, and causing a mess when people try to experience a series.
Your original video actually got me to replay 999 DS with two of my friends who hadn't touched the series before. It was honestly a much better experience, and we had a lot of fun supplementing the lack of voice acting with our own voices. Much more fun than my initial playthrough which had been with the port. I honestly think the port could've been about twenty times better if they just found a way to implement the second screen well, or at least weren't so terrified of switching to novel mode a bunch. That's what a lot of the issues with the script changes, story, and ending come down to. But I guess they were worried about going too experimental with presentation... for a port of the game that was practically all about doing that. And while I can definitely see the arguments for why forcing the player to start from the beginning and skip through dialogue is enriching... a lot of the routes are just a bit *too* long for me to think that's worth it. When we were doing our playthrough, the only moments where we genuinely weren't enjoying our time was during some especially long sections of skipping, and that was when we even had a tweaked version of the room to speed up text speed, and the emulation speed increased to 2x. Maybe the flowchart is a bit too far in the opposite direction, but I still think it's a net positive in the end.
The only thing the flow chart does, is push you into the better endings without a guide. I know when I played 999 on the DS that i eventually looked up a guide for the puzzles and routes for the endings, but was looking at a spoiler-free one so I didn't get story spoilers(still, fuck that puzzle with the random "choose the next number in this sequence that doesn't..." I had to ask a friend for help on that one, and the guides never had an answer.) Also, I watched one of my favorite LPers go through the port, with so many of us giving non-spoilers hints, or saying "this thing someone said will be important" without giving additional context...and although she got to the end nicely, and even skipped an ending because of luck, I still think that the way the ending is done on the DS version is so much better than the solo-screen port. I will vociferously defend the original to the end...the QoL changes are nice, but they divert so much from what the story is trying to do... Honestly, as hilarious as I just thought this up, it almost feels like using the chart is like something that Sans from the Genocide ending of Undertale says, that timelines were jumping and shifting...because that's what you're doing when you use the chart...you're just jumping to the next important spot, and not reading into the story.... Though the chart DOES make Let's Playing it a bit nicer, as the person making the LP doesn't have to cut out things or drive the audience along with the repeating text.
Overall great points, but one area where I will disagree slightly is the artist vision thing. Even if the repetition was part of Uchikoshi's initial vision, I would say adding the flowchart to 999 makes it fit better within the established lore of the Zero Escape franchise as it is more consistent with the concept of shifting found within VLR and ZTD. So I think an argument can be made that the flowchart isn't just convenient, but also a way to establish more cohesion between 999 and the other 2 games. Granted, how much this matters to any given player is dependent on whether or not they are a lore obsessed weirdo like me.
I think that's an unfair metric to use against the DS version of 999. As the first instalment in a franchise, it couldn't account for changes to the lore that would be added in the other games. Not only is VLR so massive that you couldn't possibly start the game from the beginning everytime, but there are also story-related reasons that the flowchart needs to exist. Likewise, not having the flowchart works better for the story that 999 tells. The experience is just not the same.
@@luluzin5022 I am not using it against the DS version. It's just that in the video, the choice to add the flowchart is presented as being purely for convenience and without any benefits on the creative side. I am just putting forth an argument that the design does still have some creative aspect to it.
Your original 999 video is one of my favorites ever. I've been a vocal supporter of the DS game being new time fans first experience with this wonderful game (maybe with the faster text patch if it's unbearably slow for them). The Nonary Games should have been a Novel Mode only game, retaining the exact same script as the DS version with no additional voiced dialogue. If it just did that, I don't believe I would have that much ire for it. It still wouldn't be as good, but it would be servicable.
Yeah prior to finding your video (just now) I assumed that novel mode was identical to the original DS version (having only played that version myself and seen others play mostly ADV mode). So now I'm angry too. I think most old fans make that assumption and either don't remember how different the dialog was, or haven't tried the port. All of this is extra relevant to me right now because I'm in the process of making a book out of the original DS script so I can read it without having to play it. It's...complicated and slow going. But this is EXTRA motivation.
The saddest thing is just watching other people play the game and they're playing the port, as you said they often don't take the game seriously because of the weird dialogue. And most of them play in adventure mode. It's just... sad. Why not just make the Novel mode mandatory? The game's a freaking visual novel! There weren't really that many people that knew about these games already before the port, but when you try and talk about it to anyone now, there's a good chance they have played the port so they don't understand why I'm so passionate about it... to them it's just another game, and not the crazy experience that I had on my DS; I literally couldn't stop thinking about 999 and VLR for a good while when I finished them, I was just emotionally drained, it's just that good. And now in people's mind it's all about the freakin' adventure mode port. Yah I'm very biased as well. And I’m also furious whenever I look at threads of people discussing it and the people who recommend the PC version are almost always the most passive-agressive for some reason « if you enjoy 20 hour long dialogue with no narration on your tiny little ds screen then go for it » and things like that like what the heck? Also very hard to find let’s plays of the DS version that isn’t on a rom that looks super weird it’s hell honestly. Such a good game doesn’t deserve all this. Welp that felt good to get that off my chest I’m gonna go calm down now
i actually think they created the adventure mode for the twist, like, they made it just so they could have the junpei vision/akane vision stuff at the end
I've only ever played the port of the game, and I honestly agree with you. Even though I played exclusively in novel mode and loved both the game and the writing, I did not connect with the feeling of being Akane, who had to go back through multiple timelines to find the solution to the puzzle. The final puzzle is a mind-blowing cherry that recontextualizes the whole game, and it didn't hit nearly as hard in the port. Thanks for letting me know about the DS version; I'll be sure to check it out.
I think you would be interested in this game called Your Turn to Die: Death game by Majority. Its similar to 999 in many ways other than the fact that it is an escape mystery game, the characters also affect the routes you take in the game as well. It has an excellent plot with well developed characters and is worth checking out. Its a free game which you can play in browser or on any device but it also has a steam version with extra side stories.
I have a lot of the same sentiments as you for things I'm passionate about. For some reason "quality of life" upgrades seem to favor the majority, but there can be so much lost in translation when solely focusing on that. I also find the Last Guardian snippet VERY relatable. It's like trying to run a marathon...if each of us could push a magic button to get in shape for it, most would do so. You may or may not enjoy the marathon....but if you had disciplined yourself to do the grind and get in shape, it's so much more rewarding. Now compare that to the quality of life "upgrades" that Square adds to the modern ports of classic FF games. It's almost like they're insecure about the older titles. I purchased the DS version of 999 this year because of your recommendation. I plan to play it in October or so. If I like it, I'll also try the ports to compare.
Nice analogy. It'd be interesting to see a video on your perspective of the Pixel Remasters or how you treasure the features of the older games! Speaking of which, are there any videos in the works for you? You'll have to tell me how you liked 999 when October comes around!
@@ItsYourPalJacobI thought about making a vid just about the PR’s. I think they’re great, but they did make them way too easy. The newly added cheats to the console ports should be unthinkable imo. I hate stuff like that. I’ll certainly let you know what I think of 999. Even though I mostly play FF, I like to take breaks and try new things every now and then.
I'd thought I must've somehow forgotten how poor the dialogue was until the part where Junpei described the gory details of Snake's corpse to Clover. Then I knew it was just different dialogue.
I mean, Junpei did that in the original too. It was kind of a plot point, since by mentioning how messed up the bone in his left arm was, Clover was able to recognize that the body in Door 3 wasn't her one-armed brother.
The way people talk about the port stems from a larger problem with game discussion. Games aren't viewed like whole pieces of art, but just as a maluable collection of features that will inevitably become outdated features. If you put in more features and you replace outdated features with modern features, that's "objectively better." The only reason you'd think outdated features are better is because of subjective bias and "nostalgia" So, it makes sense why the Nonary Games version would be considered objectively better. The DS's graphics don't just have a different art style, they're outdated and low resolution. Wether or not a game has voice acting isn't an artistic choice, it's a feature that was absent from the original and "fixed" in the port. Quality of life features are always good. So, the port must be the definitive version. It has the most features.
Unfortunately this sentiment is so commonplace it's why you see so many remakes of games now. Many gamers do not respect the medium they claim to love by viewing everything as disposable and needing of 'upgrades'. It's pretty disheartening
I dislike the notion that artistic vision can be used as a defense against any media's faults, and I say this as an artist myself. Sometimes, intentional decisions are not good and should be criticized. Avoiding repetition is writing 101 and forcing the player to replay entire sections of the game, including puzzle rooms, is the ultimate form of repetition.
While I understand that sentiment and think you make a good point, discrediting how the author wanted to make the audience feel without considering why is a notion that I dislike. I’m not saying it shouldn’t or can’t be criticized, I even criticized it in the original video, but it’s repetitive nature ended up playing a pivotal role in how powerful my experience with the true ending was, and I’d argue that it wouldn’t have hit me or others as hard without it. It’s certainly decisive and could have been implemented better, but it’s inclusion is important.
What do you think of the Japanese voice acting? All your references to the voice acting have been about the English version I also want to mention that there does seem to be an awful amount of mental gymnastics for justifying why the DS game didn't have a flowchart. Especially considering Uchikoshi has never said that it was deliberately omitted for a stylistic choice (because if he said it was, you would have quoted it, making your argument much stronger). It's much more sensible to assume that no flowchart/jump back option was because of constraints in development (whether it hardware/software), or time constraints. If no flowcharts was an artistic decision, how come no other ZE game or the port have no flowchart? It can't be ruled out that it was an artistic decision, but what irks me is you treat it as fact in both videos.
Akane can go through different timelines and go in the middle of them I don’t understand why it’s so far fetched that she didn’t start from the beginning
The whole concept of "convenience and fun should be above artistic vision" would kill so many critically and fan acclaimed series like NieR, Souls or even the Ico trilogy. Gamers nowadays tend to avoid any kind of hardship and gravitate towards mindless experiences.
[SPOILERS] 🌞 🌞 unrelated but whenever I'm recommending 999 to any of my friends i always lend them my ds cause i really dislike the port. i wanted to play it through first to see the differences but I've never actually finished it😭😭 ace's evil speech was so awkward i couldn't get through it honestly I HATE THIS WHOLE SCENE JDKSK also a greatly disagree when it comes to voiceacting, it's atrocious. i dislike most of the performances (especially ace and junpei) imo 999 is one of those games way better without voices. it's cause the game was never designed in the first place for voiceacting; the original has this,, unnerving, silent atmosphere, and that's partly to the voices. i really loved how dialogue felt really sparse, which really makes you feel like those people don't know eachother and aren't willing to talk too much. so when in the true ending there's way more things being said outloud, it hits way harder. like you have the feeling they got to know eachother and are a lot more open. i hate the port with a burning passion as well lol (even the upscaled art looks awkward for me😭😭 they at least could've copied the lines and shading used in the cutscene artwork but nooooooo why would we put thought and effort into this niche funky game no one remembers)
I've done the same for a few friends, let them borrow the DS version, but I never saw them again lol. I have a bad track record with that so I tend not to let people borrow my things anymore. I agree the game isn't really meant for voice acting. I'm not a big fan of it either but when trying to find examples for my criticisms for the VA work I came up empty-handed.
I started with the port and I honestly didn't like it at first, which I honestly think is in psrt to how the dialogue was handled. I didn't like any of the characters until I played further. I'm glad I stuck it out but I really wish I played the DS version first.
My experience with the game is very similar to yours. Played it on the DS before the 2nd game came out when it was already really hard to find a copy of. Zero escape honestly kinda ruined all other VNs for me, since most really met the standard it set for me. Anyways, I'd like to see your thoughts on the sequels. I just barely consider VLR to be the strongest overall.
Personally, I wrote the port’s dialogue off as being poor localisation, as if the game hadn’t been translated well. I still really enjoyed the game and went on to play the sequels, and I even threw a 999 themed birthday party, so I’d say the port still had strong effect on me despite the dialogue. It’s a shame they didn’t do a better job with the port when clearly it was possible.
instead of trying to separate the dialog and narration literally to two different screens akin to the ds version they really should've done it the usual way vns on pc do - having those both in the same text box, just differentiate them by either color or text box design. which some vns do already, like different color dialog boxes for different characters speaking even. would not be as noticeble as having two different ways of reading, requires no change in dialog, does not need coded in changes between screens because players might pick one and ignore the other completely. like literally leave UI for junpei blue and paint it violet for akane's narration and that's it - i think they did exactly that at the ending actually, besides renaming screens as junpei/akane vision. you have one screen stop trying to make it into two again, use the advantages of your medium dammit
I played the vita version and absolutely loved it. Bummer that it missed those narration details becouse I did find the ending part odd and had to think for a moment what was happening. Still happy that I played it because I would have become frustrated by replaying from the beginning every time. Plus I liked the voice acting. I put the dialog on auto while I was cooking.
saying an updated version is inherently better just because of the addition of voice acting is like saying an anime is better than the manga because it's animated If someone tried to make that argument about the Junji Ito Collection they would 10000% get laughed out of the room
You are implying that making excellent Junji Ito anime adaptation is impossible. Personally I think anime can be better than manga just because it's animated, but only when that animation doesn't sacrifice the creative views of the source material.
@@luimu that’s not what I was implying, no. I’m saying that things that would come with an adaptation like voice acting and music don’t inherently make an anime better than a manga, which is something a lot of people seem to believe
Thanks for the concern haha. School has just been getting really busy as I approach graduation in a year. These videos also just take a really long time to make. I’m using the last month I have away from school to work on my next video but it’s probably still a little ways off.
@@ItsYourPalJacob Oh lmao, I didn't expect a respond! Neat. Just worried a bit, because I know several youtubers who made a few banger videos and then decided to fade away into the abyss forever and I would've hated to "lose" another one because your videos are really entertaining. No stress, was just curious.
do you have any plans of covering the sequels? really curious on your overall thoughts and theres barely any content covering these games in detail which is such a shame
Having no puzzles is a bummer, but overall the iOS version is a better experience than the PS4/PC port of the game when it comes to the story. I didn't play or research the iOS version, but based on what I have seen, it kept the original DS script intact without the novel/adventure mode stuff and was able to pull it off on one screen because they consciously separated character dialogue and narration.
The... the same dialogue is in the novel mode? Really? When there is narration so a bunch of them are not needed anymore? ...why? ...so... if having Voice Acting automatically makes things so much better... why are Undub mods to give games the japanese voices and keep the text to dialogue boxes/subtitles so popular? I mean, unless people knew Japanese they would be no different than just having the beeps from the DS version...
God i feel this to my bone I would compare this to the crash bandicoot remake. In a way, it did a lot of things better than the original games. You can properly save in the first game. And other stuff i forgot lol. Outside of that the remake is inferior for many reasons The graphics and gameplay are the big ones. The character models are already super outdated cuz those are just adding extra "realism" on cartoony characters, and they're already getting outadated. And the new hitbox system is terrible What sucks is that many people got a negative experience with the serids, saying people only like it cuz of nostalgia and it annoys me to no end.
Imagine if people recommended a version of Sixth Sense where Bruce Willis' character has all his dialogue cut, and all of his speaking lines are given to the kid. Oh, but they introduced English subtitles and cleaned up the special effects--easy recommendation. Can't live without it! Even if the port only ruined the ending of the game, that's--that's the ENDING OF THE GAME. The ending of the video game MATTERS. Hearing Joe Shmoe give his greatest doofy Junpei impression isn't a worthwhile trade, and I'm going CRAZY that people think that doesn't sound insane to suggest!
Yeah, talking with people that love the port is such a wierd experience, I brought up in a group chat once that people who prefer the port are generally people that were never gonna truly love 999 anyway, because the port's enhancements largely benefit those who aren't really into visual novels in the first place, and I still think that's "generally" true, but man then someone in that chat said that 999 was their favourite game of all time and they both played the port first and prefer the port to the DS version, and I hear that and I just don't know how to respond... I hope, one day, somehow, 999 gets another chance to be ported to modern consoles, even it's just a straight port that awkwardly shoves 2 screens on your TV at once and does nothing else, I'd like to believe the original version of 999 can be preserved for future generations beyond just through DS emulators...
Solid video but I think I disagree with you on every point you made. I’m going to try the ds version soon but I think it’s highly unlikely to change my opinion.
Honestly I was disappointed when I wasn’t starting over and over again with the first puzzle when I played the port. The twist of it being YOU the player getting better at the puzzle BECAUSE you knew the solution when Junpei technically didn’t was so powerful to me.
if you do door 6 im pretty sure on certain routes santa goes on about this with rats(im pretty surr)
@@aheadsounds2522 if you go through door 5 and pick the dog when looking at the Fupenarya picture Lotus also talks about it
It was your video that inspired me to introduce my close friend to 999 through the original DS version and not the port! Maybe I'd squandered my own experience a bit by going port first, and that was kind of a downer, but the idea of doing it right for someone else's first experience was so exciting I just had to try. And she loved it!!! I did find myself enjoying the dialogue so much more when characters weren't constantly pointing out the obvious. I remember, too, at an early puzzle she said something like "I hope I get to do sudoku at some point" and it was the funniest thing to tell her "so remember how you wanted sudoku" when the final puzzle was revealed. Little moments like that could never have happened if we were playing the port. So thank you for making that video!
Thank you so much for putting this into words and doing it so eloquently.
I really wish somebody would crack the Steam version of TNG so it could get modded to match the DS version as closely as possible
I find it funny that I found this comment while watching Zero Escape videos since I've been doing something similar. I ripped the files of the PC version and have been remaking the very beginning of the game in RenPy with the DS script, as a proof of concept personal project.
Unfortunately I doubt I'll ever finish it because of the time it would take, and I doubt it'd be legal to release. If only the PC version could be modded 😔
@@Hannahnana1312 I don't know if you'll see this comment, but please, PLEASE finish this. I am DYING for this kind of project to be done, in any way it can. I would chip in for you to do this, and I'm sure others would too, although maybe you wouldn't want to take any money for said legal worries... But the offer is there from me 😭😭😭 I just want a more faithful mod of the port version so bad, it kills me that nothing has been tried so far...
@@ProPinkist wow I wasn't expecting a reply to this, kinda forgot I left the comment. I did the very opening right before the escape room then sort of gave up because of a bunch of pain points, such as I'm not sure how to implement an escape room in renpy, and that all the ripped files have no organization at all at least with the way I was able to rip them (QuickBMS). For example 000010ba.png is one of Clover's sprites, and 000010bb.png is one of June's. Everything gets dumped into a single folder with filenames like that, and theres almost 7000 images to sort through.
I think I could learn how to do those complex things in renpy and do the tedious work of categorization, but it's hard to find the motivation when I don't know if this can be released to the public, especially if I have to do it alone and unpaid. I saw the Umineko Project where they remade Umineko for the PS3 in a custom engine using it's assets and they seem to be doing okay legally, although I'm unsure if all it would take is the copyright holders to actually take notice or if they're actually safe. They also don't take donations because of that fact. Sorry I can only leave a rambly comment, its just a tough situation :(
@@Hannahnana1312 I actually made a visual novel myself in renpy last year, out of an existing light novel. I only had/have extremely basic coding knowledge from classes I took at one point lmao, and I know what I made is nowhere near as complex as 999 would be, but I do at least have a little experience with renpy. I have a lot of free time on my hands, so I would be more than happy to do the tedious categorizing work for you, and any part of the actual coding process if you could teach me what to do, if that would help motivate you? Two people is better than one~ I’m also a part of the Uchikoshi discord server, so maybe I could get some more information from there about the files or anything else. As for worrying about copyright, we could always keep it between ourselves… I kinda don’t think Spike Chunsoft would mind a personal project like this, they seem pretty active in and close with the community, but that’s just a gut feeling. At the very least, I would feel proud just seeing it completed on my own, but I’d understand if that alone doesn’t make it feel worth it for you.
Asdghfdg now I’m the one rambling, sorry 😭 But basically I’m totally down to help you out and lighten your load, if you’d like that! We could figure it out together~
@@Hannahnana1312 the only problem in making escape rooms would be inventory objects and interactions with them - no support for 3d models in renpy, there is only 3d camera. so no turning them around.
"This game is more than just its ending"
Agreed! I had a terrific experience along the way.
I'm still always going to recommend your 999 video to anyone who plays it, port or otherwise. It really is a completely different experience.
I played it through the port specifically because of the QoL features and VA (and no restarts, playing sections multiple times sounded super unappealing to me), even after a friend recommended (really heavily suggested) the DS version. I played the port and thought it was alright. I really didn't understand why the twist was so impactful to some when to me it kind of just happened without much setup or precedent. I thought it was just a personal preference thing but watching your video was enlightening, and I finally, really understood why people like 999. I don't care what people say, the changes made really do differentiate whether 999 is a 9/10 or a 7/10 for me. Don't play the port if you can play the DS version.
My man! The sequel I've been waiting for LESGOOOOOOOOO
"The nagging feeling that people are having a good experience instead of an incredible one"
Damn, that sentence puts into words a feeling that I never quite knew how to voice. This video is not good... it's incredible.
So true... it's always the same with remasters. Or movie adaptations of books, anime/manga. Often the original product is what the author really wanted it to be and as such it's almost always better.
while the writing changed for the port definitely made it awkward and well bad, i MUST give props to the voice actors doing their best with the cringey butchered version of the dialogue, but also some genuinely amazing moments of voice acting on the part of Evan Smith. particularly in the Safe Ending.
also, i have next to no patience when it comes to visual novels. though thats probably the adhd. i love them to death but im not replaying the entire thing over and over to get to a good or true ending or to see all the endings, especially if each route is hours long. nah, if a VN has saves built in, im saving at every dialogue option and loading a save when i hit an ending, because i will get bored and close the game and then it will sit collecting dust otherwise. i know you brought it up but i still feel the need to say my peice on it.
like, i think the best experience would be a modded version of the ds ROM that adds in the flowchart. i'd miss the voice acting from the Safe Ending and certain other key points, but i think it would be the overall best way to play the game.
I had a really great time playing the Nonary Games version of 999 (voice acting muted, voiced it with a friend on Discord) but your videos made me sad that i didnt play a version without those writing issues that annoyed me 😞
Excellent videos by the way, it was a treat to watch such high quality videos about this subject!!
I haven't seen your original review of the game, not even the spoiler-free one, because a friend recommended this game to me, and I like to go into my games as blindly as possible. I was rewatching your ff2 review and then saw that you uploaded something new, so I thought "Might as well". I'll send your review to my friend, though, cheers. (He played the DS version)
I saw your video about a year ago. Almost immediately after watching someone play through the entirety of the port of 999 having only watched half of a playthrough of the original almost a decade ago. I was in love with the story and wanted to share it with my sister and your first video on the port is what convinced me to spend the extra on getting the original. I have to say I agree with you almost 100% and I'm glad there are meticulous people like you to give some perspective on what is lost in the port. One of the best parts of our playthrough was putting on voices for the characters (though I felt my Santa and Junpei voices weren't distinct enough most of the time.) I love the voice casting for the port but you're right that there is something to be said for reading them yourself.
Just watched both videos and I can't tell if I didnt notice the bad dialogue or ended up becoming numb to it, but having it pointed out like that made me realize how unnatural it was. I found it hard to find Junpei likable at some points, and I wonder if the constant talking might have had anything to do with it. I also find it sad that I could have had an even better experience, like you mention, it was good, but it could have been even better with some of these things that have been left out. It sucks that its a trend where ports or remake end up being done at the sacrifice of a different experience than others, and causing a mess when people try to experience a series.
Your original video actually got me to replay 999 DS with two of my friends who hadn't touched the series before. It was honestly a much better experience, and we had a lot of fun supplementing the lack of voice acting with our own voices. Much more fun than my initial playthrough which had been with the port.
I honestly think the port could've been about twenty times better if they just found a way to implement the second screen well, or at least weren't so terrified of switching to novel mode a bunch. That's what a lot of the issues with the script changes, story, and ending come down to. But I guess they were worried about going too experimental with presentation... for a port of the game that was practically all about doing that.
And while I can definitely see the arguments for why forcing the player to start from the beginning and skip through dialogue is enriching... a lot of the routes are just a bit *too* long for me to think that's worth it. When we were doing our playthrough, the only moments where we genuinely weren't enjoying our time was during some especially long sections of skipping, and that was when we even had a tweaked version of the room to speed up text speed, and the emulation speed increased to 2x. Maybe the flowchart is a bit too far in the opposite direction, but I still think it's a net positive in the end.
The only thing the flow chart does, is push you into the better endings without a guide. I know when I played 999 on the DS that i eventually looked up a guide for the puzzles and routes for the endings, but was looking at a spoiler-free one so I didn't get story spoilers(still, fuck that puzzle with the random "choose the next number in this sequence that doesn't..." I had to ask a friend for help on that one, and the guides never had an answer.)
Also, I watched one of my favorite LPers go through the port, with so many of us giving non-spoilers hints, or saying "this thing someone said will be important" without giving additional context...and although she got to the end nicely, and even skipped an ending because of luck, I still think that the way the ending is done on the DS version is so much better than the solo-screen port.
I will vociferously defend the original to the end...the QoL changes are nice, but they divert so much from what the story is trying to do...
Honestly, as hilarious as I just thought this up, it almost feels like using the chart is like something that Sans from the Genocide ending of Undertale says, that timelines were jumping and shifting...because that's what you're doing when you use the chart...you're just jumping to the next important spot, and not reading into the story....
Though the chart DOES make Let's Playing it a bit nicer, as the person making the LP doesn't have to cut out things or drive the audience along with the repeating text.
Overall great points, but one area where I will disagree slightly is the artist vision thing. Even if the repetition was part of Uchikoshi's initial vision, I would say adding the flowchart to 999 makes it fit better within the established lore of the Zero Escape franchise as it is more consistent with the concept of shifting found within VLR and ZTD. So I think an argument can be made that the flowchart isn't just convenient, but also a way to establish more cohesion between 999 and the other 2 games. Granted, how much this matters to any given player is dependent on whether or not they are a lore obsessed weirdo like me.
I think that's an unfair metric to use against the DS version of 999. As the first instalment in a franchise, it couldn't account for changes to the lore that would be added in the other games. Not only is VLR so massive that you couldn't possibly start the game from the beginning everytime, but there are also story-related reasons that the flowchart needs to exist. Likewise, not having the flowchart works better for the story that 999 tells. The experience is just not the same.
@@luluzin5022 I am not using it against the DS version. It's just that in the video, the choice to add the flowchart is presented as being purely for convenience and without any benefits on the creative side. I am just putting forth an argument that the design does still have some creative aspect to it.
Your original 999 video is one of my favorites ever. I've been a vocal supporter of the DS game being new time fans first experience with this wonderful game (maybe with the faster text patch if it's unbearably slow for them). The Nonary Games should have been a Novel Mode only game, retaining the exact same script as the DS version with no additional voiced dialogue. If it just did that, I don't believe I would have that much ire for it. It still wouldn't be as good, but it would be servicable.
Always a good day when my pal Jacob uploads a video, especially when its a 999 video.
Yeah prior to finding your video (just now) I assumed that novel mode was identical to the original DS version (having only played that version myself and seen others play mostly ADV mode). So now I'm angry too. I think most old fans make that assumption and either don't remember how different the dialog was, or haven't tried the port. All of this is extra relevant to me right now because I'm in the process of making a book out of the original DS script so I can read it without having to play it. It's...complicated and slow going. But this is EXTRA motivation.
The saddest thing is just watching other people play the game and they're playing the port, as you said they often don't take the game seriously because of the weird dialogue. And most of them play in adventure mode. It's just... sad.
Why not just make the Novel mode mandatory? The game's a freaking visual novel!
There weren't really that many people that knew about these games already before the port, but when you try and talk about it to anyone now, there's a good chance they have played the port so they don't understand why I'm so passionate about it... to them it's just another game, and not the crazy experience that I had on my DS; I literally couldn't stop thinking about 999 and VLR for a good while when I finished them, I was just emotionally drained, it's just that good. And now in people's mind it's all about the freakin' adventure mode port. Yah I'm very biased as well.
And I’m also furious whenever I look at threads of people discussing it and the people who recommend the PC version are almost always the most passive-agressive for some reason
« if you enjoy 20 hour long dialogue with no narration on your tiny little ds screen then go for it » and things like that like what the heck?
Also very hard to find let’s plays of the DS version that isn’t on a rom that looks super weird it’s hell honestly. Such a good game doesn’t deserve all this.
Welp that felt good to get that off my chest I’m gonna go calm down now
i actually think they created the adventure mode for the twist, like, they made it just so they could have the junpei vision/akane vision stuff at the end
I've only ever played the port of the game, and I honestly agree with you.
Even though I played exclusively in novel mode and loved both the game and the writing, I did not connect with the feeling of being Akane, who had to go back through multiple timelines to find the solution to the puzzle.
The final puzzle is a mind-blowing cherry that recontextualizes the whole game, and it didn't hit nearly as hard in the port.
Thanks for letting me know about the DS version; I'll be sure to check it out.
I think you would be interested in this game called Your Turn to Die: Death game by Majority. Its similar to 999 in many ways other than the fact that it is an escape mystery game, the characters also affect the routes you take in the game as well. It has an excellent plot with well developed characters and is worth checking out. Its a free game which you can play in browser or on any device but it also has a steam version with extra side stories.
As much of a hit or miss the port is. Im still happy i played it. And im happy you introduced me to 999 so. Thanks for that👍
I have a lot of the same sentiments as you for things I'm passionate about. For some reason "quality of life" upgrades seem to favor the majority, but there can be so much lost in translation when solely focusing on that. I also find the Last Guardian snippet VERY relatable. It's like trying to run a marathon...if each of us could push a magic button to get in shape for it, most would do so. You may or may not enjoy the marathon....but if you had disciplined yourself to do the grind and get in shape, it's so much more rewarding. Now compare that to the quality of life "upgrades" that Square adds to the modern ports of classic FF games. It's almost like they're insecure about the older titles.
I purchased the DS version of 999 this year because of your recommendation. I plan to play it in October or so. If I like it, I'll also try the ports to compare.
Nice analogy. It'd be interesting to see a video on your perspective of the Pixel Remasters or how you treasure the features of the older games! Speaking of which, are there any videos in the works for you?
You'll have to tell me how you liked 999 when October comes around!
@@ItsYourPalJacobI thought about making a vid just about the PR’s. I think they’re great, but they did make them way too easy. The newly added cheats to the console ports should be unthinkable imo. I hate stuff like that.
I’ll certainly let you know what I think of 999. Even though I mostly play FF, I like to take breaks and try new things every now and then.
I'd thought I must've somehow forgotten how poor the dialogue was until the part where Junpei described the gory details of Snake's corpse to Clover.
Then I knew it was just different dialogue.
That bit in particular wasn't different dialogue. It was a wtf moment even in the DS version.
I mean, Junpei did that in the original too. It was kind of a plot point, since by mentioning how messed up the bone in his left arm was, Clover was able to recognize that the body in Door 3 wasn't her one-armed brother.
The way people talk about the port stems from a larger problem with game discussion. Games aren't viewed like whole pieces of art, but just as a maluable collection of features that will inevitably become outdated features. If you put in more features and you replace outdated features with modern features, that's "objectively better." The only reason you'd think outdated features are better is because of subjective bias and "nostalgia"
So, it makes sense why the Nonary Games version would be considered objectively better. The DS's graphics don't just have a different art style, they're outdated and low resolution. Wether or not a game has voice acting isn't an artistic choice, it's a feature that was absent from the original and "fixed" in the port. Quality of life features are always good. So, the port must be the definitive version. It has the most features.
Unfortunately this sentiment is so commonplace it's why you see so many remakes of games now. Many gamers do not respect the medium they claim to love by viewing everything as disposable and needing of 'upgrades'. It's pretty disheartening
Oh yea! I’ll been waiting for a follow up! Wonderfully made video!
You're right still. Also, props for Octopath traveler clip! go play the sequel too!
I dislike the notion that artistic vision can be used as a defense against any media's faults, and I say this as an artist myself. Sometimes, intentional decisions are not good and should be criticized. Avoiding repetition is writing 101 and forcing the player to replay entire sections of the game, including puzzle rooms, is the ultimate form of repetition.
While I understand that sentiment and think you make a good point, discrediting how the author wanted to make the audience feel without considering why is a notion that I dislike. I’m not saying it shouldn’t or can’t be criticized, I even criticized it in the original video, but it’s repetitive nature ended up playing a pivotal role in how powerful my experience with the true ending was, and I’d argue that it wouldn’t have hit me or others as hard without it. It’s certainly decisive and could have been implemented better, but it’s inclusion is important.
What do you think of the Japanese voice acting? All your references to the voice acting have been about the English version
I also want to mention that there does seem to be an awful amount of mental gymnastics for justifying why the DS game didn't have a flowchart. Especially considering Uchikoshi has never said that it was deliberately omitted for a stylistic choice (because if he said it was, you would have quoted it, making your argument much stronger).
It's much more sensible to assume that no flowchart/jump back option was because of constraints in development (whether it hardware/software), or time constraints. If no flowcharts was an artistic decision, how come no other ZE game or the port have no flowchart?
It can't be ruled out that it was an artistic decision, but what irks me is you treat it as fact in both videos.
I don't think the character sprites were upscaled for the port. According to creator Kotaro Uchikoshi, the characters were drawn at 1024 x 768.
Akane can go through different timelines and go in the middle of them I don’t understand why it’s so far fetched that she didn’t start from the beginning
I just watched the first video tonight and was so pleasantly surprised to see a follow-up video!
Leaving a comment to show some love jacob and help the algo, love the content and keep it up! One love dawg!
The whole concept of "convenience and fun should be above artistic vision" would kill so many critically and fan acclaimed series like NieR, Souls or even the Ico trilogy. Gamers nowadays tend to avoid any kind of hardship and gravitate towards mindless experiences.
999 2 Electric Boogaloo
My only criticism of you is that you didn't go harsh enough on the dialogue, the voice acting, the script changes, and the handling of the 2 screens
[SPOILERS]
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unrelated but whenever I'm recommending 999 to any of my friends i always lend them my ds cause i really dislike the port. i wanted to play it through first to see the differences but I've never actually finished it😭😭 ace's evil speech was so awkward i couldn't get through it honestly I HATE THIS WHOLE SCENE JDKSK
also a greatly disagree when it comes to voiceacting, it's atrocious. i dislike most of the performances (especially ace and junpei)
imo 999 is one of those games way better without voices. it's cause the game was never designed in the first place for voiceacting; the original has this,, unnerving, silent atmosphere, and that's partly to the voices. i really loved how dialogue felt really sparse, which really makes you feel like those people don't know eachother and aren't willing to talk too much. so when in the true ending there's way more things being said outloud, it hits way harder. like you have the feeling they got to know eachother and are a lot more open.
i hate the port with a burning passion as well lol (even the upscaled art looks awkward for me😭😭 they at least could've copied the lines and shading used in the cutscene artwork but nooooooo why would we put thought and effort into this niche funky game no one remembers)
I've done the same for a few friends, let them borrow the DS version, but I never saw them again lol. I have a bad track record with that so I tend not to let people borrow my things anymore.
I agree the game isn't really meant for voice acting. I'm not a big fan of it either but when trying to find examples for my criticisms for the VA work I came up empty-handed.
I started with the port and I honestly didn't like it at first, which I honestly think is in psrt to how the dialogue was handled. I didn't like any of the characters until I played further. I'm glad I stuck it out but I really wish I played the DS version first.
My experience with the game is very similar to yours. Played it on the DS before the 2nd game came out when it was already really hard to find a copy of. Zero escape honestly kinda ruined all other VNs for me, since most really met the standard it set for me. Anyways, I'd like to see your thoughts on the sequels. I just barely consider VLR to be the strongest overall.
Personally, I wrote the port’s dialogue off as being poor localisation, as if the game hadn’t been translated well. I still really enjoyed the game and went on to play the sequels, and I even threw a 999 themed birthday party, so I’d say the port still had strong effect on me despite the dialogue. It’s a shame they didn’t do a better job with the port when clearly it was possible.
instead of trying to separate the dialog and narration literally to two different screens akin to the ds version they really should've done it the usual way vns on pc do - having those both in the same text box, just differentiate them by either color or text box design. which some vns do already, like different color dialog boxes for different characters speaking even. would not be as noticeble as having two different ways of reading, requires no change in dialog, does not need coded in changes between screens because players might pick one and ignore the other completely.
like literally leave UI for junpei blue and paint it violet for akane's narration and that's it - i think they did exactly that at the ending actually, besides renaming screens as junpei/akane vision.
you have one screen stop trying to make it into two again, use the advantages of your medium dammit
Another BANGER video from my pal Jacob. 🔥🔥🔥
What?? A follow up video?? Let's go
I played the vita version and absolutely loved it. Bummer that it missed those narration details becouse I did find the ending part odd and had to think for a moment what was happening. Still happy that I played it because I would have become frustrated by replaying from the beginning every time. Plus I liked the voice acting. I put the dialog on auto while I was cooking.
saying an updated version is inherently better just because of the addition of voice acting is like saying an anime is better than the manga because it's animated
If someone tried to make that argument about the Junji Ito Collection they would 10000% get laughed out of the room
You are implying that making excellent Junji Ito anime adaptation is impossible. Personally I think anime can be better than manga just because it's animated, but only when that animation doesn't sacrifice the creative views of the source material.
@@luimu that’s not what I was implying, no. I’m saying that things that would come with an adaptation like voice acting and music don’t inherently make an anime better than a manga, which is something a lot of people seem to believe
please make more videos, i like them a lot :^)
Convenient, I just watched your original video a week ago.
It should say the courps lives but no i just haven't been paying attention
Funny enough I literally just started playing 999
It's been over a whole year since you last uploaded, are you doing alright? Just checking up.
Thanks for the concern haha. School has just been getting really busy as I approach graduation in a year. These videos also just take a really long time to make. I’m using the last month I have away from school to work on my next video but it’s probably still a little ways off.
@@ItsYourPalJacob Oh lmao, I didn't expect a respond! Neat. Just worried a bit, because I know several youtubers who made a few banger videos and then decided to fade away into the abyss forever and I would've hated to "lose" another one because your videos are really entertaining. No stress, was just curious.
do you have any plans of covering the sequels? really curious on your overall thoughts and theres barely any content covering these games in detail which is such a shame
No plans for VLR or ZTD right now. I don’t feel like I could add anything new to the conversation that hasn’t already been said.
@@ItsYourPalJacob ah bummer but i guess thats fair
Hell yeah new Jacob video
Reminds me too much of Sonic Adventure vs Sonic Adventure DX.
The one that was intended vs the cheaper, most comfortable option.
What about RF3 vs RF3 Special?
@@wedasantika6079 Hm?
I want your thoughts on the iOS version with puzzles removed.
Having no puzzles is a bummer, but overall the iOS version is a better experience than the PS4/PC port of the game when it comes to the story. I didn't play or research the iOS version, but based on what I have seen, it kept the original DS script intact without the novel/adventure mode stuff and was able to pull it off on one screen because they consciously separated character dialogue and narration.
The... the same dialogue is in the novel mode? Really? When there is narration so a bunch of them are not needed anymore?
...why?
...so... if having Voice Acting automatically makes things so much better... why are Undub mods to give games the japanese voices and keep the text to dialogue boxes/subtitles so popular? I mean, unless people knew Japanese they would be no different than just having the beeps from the DS version...
God i feel this to my bone
I would compare this to the crash bandicoot remake. In a way, it did a lot of things better than the original games. You can properly save in the first game. And other stuff i forgot lol. Outside of that the remake is inferior for many reasons
The graphics and gameplay are the big ones. The character models are already super outdated cuz those are just adding extra "realism" on cartoony characters, and they're already getting outadated. And the new hitbox system is terrible
What sucks is that many people got a negative experience with the serids, saying people only like it cuz of nostalgia and it annoys me to no end.
Bro come back wtf
Imagine if people recommended a version of Sixth Sense where Bruce Willis' character has all his dialogue cut, and all of his speaking lines are given to the kid. Oh, but they introduced English subtitles and cleaned up the special effects--easy recommendation. Can't live without it!
Even if the port only ruined the ending of the game, that's--that's the ENDING OF THE GAME. The ending of the video game MATTERS. Hearing Joe Shmoe give his greatest doofy Junpei impression isn't a worthwhile trade, and I'm going CRAZY that people think that doesn't sound insane to suggest!
Evan Smith is fun, but you can tell he's usually not a regular VA.
nice
Tell us how you really feel bro 😁
Yeah, talking with people that love the port is such a wierd experience, I brought up in a group chat once that people who prefer the port are generally people that were never gonna truly love 999 anyway, because the port's enhancements largely benefit those who aren't really into visual novels in the first place, and I still think that's "generally" true, but man then someone in that chat said that 999 was their favourite game of all time and they both played the port first and prefer the port to the DS version, and I hear that and I just don't know how to respond... I hope, one day, somehow, 999 gets another chance to be ported to modern consoles, even it's just a straight port that awkwardly shoves 2 screens on your TV at once and does nothing else, I'd like to believe the original version of 999 can be preserved for future generations beyond just through DS emulators...
Solid video but I think I disagree with you on every point you made. I’m going to try the ds version soon but I think it’s highly unlikely to change my opinion.
So it’s been 8 months what yah think?