"At worst, these depictions risk implying that black women do not need systemic change, because they're strong enough to withstand society's abuse." EXACTLY. Thank you.
Precisely, I wish that they'd depict more flawed, realistic and vulnerable black women in mainstream media, and not have them be the "Divine Mentor" towards the typically white protagonist. 👏🏽💚
Deer God. Everything is 'problematic'. No matter what you depict. You show a woman as evil? Problem. Good? Problem. Maternal? Problem. Strong? Problem. Sad? Problem. Happy? Problem. Get a life. Or better, see a shrink. You apparently need one.
If they want a damsel in distress/a princess, they usuly cast lighter skin ppl - its sad tbh. Do u know they were gonna animate tiana as a lighter person.
Saron Asmerom right and when they want the black girl to be complex, multi dimensional and alternative they still have lightskin mixed girls be the faces for that even doe growing up in inner city Brooklyn there were dark skin black girls and women who were both hood and alternative and the lightskin mixed girls were straight hood and Thoting and bopping
In highschool I always got told "you talk so white" Just because I'm a fairly shy well annunciated talker. I hate that white is associated with being well spoken and black is associated with being "ghetto"
I get that so much. If I don't snap off on someone or "check" them for something trivial then I am perceived as weak. If I use proper english then I'm told "I talk white". It's like a lose lose situation for black women.
That's because putting others before yourself is one of the strongest traits of a Christian. The more we get away from that and indulge in the concept of self-love and putting yourself above others, the less we get away from Christian principles, thus, salvation. A self-sacrificing woman will always warrant my respect and devotion. It's the only kind of woman I want raising our children.
This isn't 100%true. Tina Turner saves herself and her career. Living Single, Dream Girls and She's gotta have it have ambitious black woman whose eventual strength and triumph is self served.
"At worst these depictions risk implying that black women do not need systemic change because they're strong enough to withstand society's abuse...In reality suffering and abuse can frequently lead to trauma, mental illness and other toxic cycles." SPEAK
My sister died because the nurse, doctors, practically the entire hospital ignored her after her C section surgery, then find out in America black females die from birth complications more because the treatment no one talks about after they give birth is lacking. Everyone keep saying she was so strong, yes black females can be strong but they are only human first and humans can be multi dimensional, its ok if they cry, its ok if they are not strong every day, why do everyone gets to be cuddled and get to be babied, get to be weak and black woman or men always have to be unbreakable, America that does not make sense.
It's also worth noting that black women (and men) don't typically get proper lighting for their skin tone on screen. Once you realize that, you start noticing it all the time and it irks me so much, it's like the film-makers saying that character doesn't matter. Barry Jenkins (Moonlight, If Beale St Could Talk) did a seminar at my school and he talked about how he adjusts the lighting to make black skin beautiful on screen. It's stunning. Film makers and lighting designers should take notes.
Bronze skin doesn't have to be lit to he beautiful. It is. A racist industry trying their best to make white folk look unrealistic in their portrayal (we all know white folk even Asian skin looks different in the real world). Stranger things is a good example. White folks from the set ensure Lucas is always smudged with beige lipstick on his upper lips with terrible lighting to ensure the white characters appear more human and glow when they don't in real life. Point blank. Stand a black person by a white in sunlight with no makeup and you'll see how fake TV is with white portrayal and the intentional de-beautifying done to african beauty. That's why instantaneous blew up. Black Beauty was presented without white racist control in the system and boom everyone wants to look like these women from glowy skin, contrast, voluminous hair, and the features of course.
It was worse in old movies. I remember watching a video before and they were talking about how cameras use to be made to adjust to lighter tones including skin tone. Camera companies didn't consider adjusting their cameras until they realized it was difficult taking ad pictures for chocolate and couldn't see the image well bc it looked way too dark to see.🤦🏾♀️ But even tho that's changed people still don't put enough lighting on dark skin actor's faces. Makes school pictures look trashy.
Outside of Black Panther, I noticed the black female superheroes are portrayed by light skinned or mixed race actresses, even if they are based on comic book characters who are dark skinned. Black male characters can be portrayed as any complexion. The most appropriate opportunity to have a strong black woman in a movie or TV series and she's automatically light skinned...
in the original black panther comics, storm is darker than t'challa and you know she is meant to be dark skinned because they gave the characters varying black skin tones, (for example, killmonger is more brown) so I was very surprised to see that they could accurately cast t'challa but storm was played by mixed women on the big screen.
@@augustm2771 Personally, I found it irriatating that the only black princess was less of a princess and more of a glorified strong, broke, black woman stereotype, complete with a dusty man that she "fixes up." I was waiting for the castles and ballrooms like the other princesses and instead her ending was here's your jobless man and 9-5 restaurant job!! Blech.
@@the_emmasculator ohhhhh I see it now cuz I was like why dose everyone hate princess and the frog but now that u mention that she didn't get her ballrooms and castles like all the other white princess it makes senses now such a shame cuz I loved that movie :(
my dad always told me that just because you CAN live through something terrible doesn't mean you should have to. even if black women all would be strong enough to withstand society's abuse, doesn't mean they would have to.
As a white writer, I just wanted to say this video really gave me a lot to think about regarding how I write my black female characters. Also wanted to thank all of the black women in the comments section for their insightful threads. I don’t want to be a disruptive presence by responding to anyone in particular, but I found this video and comment section to be really enlightening! Even though I’m white, I really hope that this insight will help me to do black women justice in my work and give them the nuanced, complex stories they deserve!
Great! Thanks for taking in the info in the comments well and reflecting upon it. And hopefully you won't be discouraged even if it gets hard to write, so I wish you the best of luck!
Thank you for being respectful in your comment. Yes, please take what you’ve learned to make productive and positive change. The world really needs it.
I’m currently writing and I’m doing the exact same thing! I’m glad this video exists, and many others, to help me flesh out my characters and write better.
@@prospus468 I don't know about apologizing for whiteness, but when someone clarifies that they are white, it is saying "I am aware that I am not central to this experience and therefore my opinions do not override the people who are". It's not apologizing for whiteness. Also, this isn't America. You are on the internet. FYI, that's worldwide.
Yep. Only those who date, work with or have siblings who are black women know the truth. Everyone else is just afraid to get close because they're raised to believe they're aggressive - especially dark-skinned women.
Is it? As a white girl, I am jealous we don't have that stereotype. It is kinda empowering. The closest to that is a bisexual kickass white girl. Still, I can't fully disagree with you, being put in a box is always uncomfortable and wrong. Edit: I got so many reply, everyone is either racist to black or white people or too deep in white shame. I doubt America would ever move on from racism, if everyone is unable to hold a calm, coherent discussion regarding race perspectives. I am not talking about a few of black folks who didn't jump to their guns and actually did a great job explaining their view.
This been a stereotype particularly associated with darker skinned black women. It important when black female writers do great things and bring that stereotype out to put them in diverse personalities and characteristics
it reflects society in its pursuit nature, American predominantly. a person of color who rises above the stereotype they are given, to show they are more than they are worth are encouraged, and hoisted on sholders. yet, if they fail to achieve that, riches grandeur and the such, they are seen, as as failure, even when surpassing that of the racial majority.
It's so interesting that you mentioned that. I have a sister who is light skinned (I am a light skinned male) and she had to deal with the feelings of not being black "enough" because.of her skin tone. I have also had to deal with those feelings.
Raaid Cotman-El well I’m sorry you and your sister had to deal with that and that’s why there are better shows to showcase the experience as lighter skin mixed race people that not black enough thing comes from the fact of course society pressuring negative stereotypes of black peoples that they have internalized as well as the fact that mixed race people are pushed together with black people when they are they’re own people
Writers literally pick one personality traits and discard all other emotional range for black female chatacters. Black women: Sensitive, strong, sweet, sensual, complex, angry, graceful, happy, tearful, empowered, healthy, and dynamic. We are everything every other women is. But no matter how an individual behaves, it still reflects on all of us. It isn't fair. We just want to be who we are and feel what we feel
If there's one black actress in a movie, she can't encapsulate the full spectrum of personalities without becoming a trope, and portrayed realistically would seem to promulgate one stereotype over another. Movies in general are formulaic and need events/circumstances/issues to push the plot, obstacles for protagonists to overcome. Who is going to watch Rambo balking at the thought of taking down an army, or a black woman who crawls into herself when her problems get to her? These are portrayals of people larger than life and movies always reflect the environment in which they're created, I get the point, but these are some of the worst examples I've ever seen of stereotypes being perpetuated.
I don’t think people understand that we want black women to be in other roles that don’t just present them as strong and sassy I want black villains, black manic pixie dream girls, black mean girls, black housewives, black rom com leads, literally I want a black women in every trope they can be in we are just as 3 dimensional as other women and I am tired of us just being viewed in our current tropes!! It’s 2020 people Edit: this is ESPECIALLY important for dark skinned women the black women who are casted in the roles I mentioned above they are almost always light skinned and I am tired of it LET DARK SKINNED WOMEN BE SOFT they feel and experience just as much as us light skinned women do and they need to be represented just as much if not more
@@bumblebee_0112 it’s hard to understand cause a majority of women praise and are about this identity. BW who talk about not needing men, they can do it all etc etc etc. you can walk out side right now and find a BW who will be about this. Shidd sad af
Perfect timing to post this during Mental Health Month. Being a Strong Black Woman is exhausting. Don't praise her, give her help and let her take a nap.
I guess they are facing same problem what medical staff and essential workers are facing all over world right now..they need legit, tangible help and hollow words of praise..😅😧
"She deserves a world that doesn't require her to be so strong all the time" "She Deserves A World That Doesn't Require Her To Be So Strong All The Time" (One more time for the people in the back) ✊🏾" SHE DESERVES A WORLD THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE HER TO BE SO STRONG ALL THE TIME" ✊🏾
I wonder why it is considered "hot and spicy" when Latina women are being angry, but if it's a black woman it's a fearful angry black woman trope? I just don't get it
That really depends on the situation. As someone who's been watching on the sideline of these debates where comments like “Don’t make this about race” happen, I think it depends on the context and subject. Certain times race is called into the topic without relevance. And other times race is indeed a major factor and should be talked about. So I think just because someone says “Don’t make this about race” doesn't mean they are a racist. It depends on what's being talked about.
@@Jasmine-mw5ku exactly. where I live, we have a very famous reality show (Big Brother), and almost half of the cast was black. While in the beginning it sounded great to have some representation on the media, by the end of the first month we had the biggest rejection, from all reality shows. A black woman, a rapper, was eliminated with 99,17% of the votes. One week before her, another black man was eliminated from the show with 98,76% of the votes. They were tremendously cruel to other participants, expelled another black man (who quit the show) from the table were they were going to have lunch, humiliated him when they were on live, made fun of the accent of a woman who comes from the northeast of the country and many other awful things. If you look, you'll see that most of the rejected are black, and if you don't know the context, you will assume it is because of race, but if you watched the show, you'll see it wasn't.
This trope has also been used as a sexist attack towards black women who embrace their femininity. The stereorype that we are so strong is used to strip the femininity from those of us who like being feminine women. We are said to be manly, emaculating to our men and undeserving of romantic love without struggle. This trope teaches black women to accept struggle love like no other.
Gurlllllll You just said it all. I just broke this down to a caucasian woman that took issue with the video. This trope has completely brainwashed most Men, making it dam near impossible to form Healthy relationships. The minute you don't eat shit and take it, You're a Man.
@soul sessions tv Bdhrh No Sweaty, Struggle love as in A relationship where you are habitually treated unfairly and then are expected to stay. MONEY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT LOL. If you unfamiliar with this term, You're probably living this way convinced that crap is normal when it isn't. There is a difference between natural ups and downs in a relationship and someone who is a habitual line crosser.
The worst part is society's view of everyday feminine black women is more like the jezebel, sexually obsessed and wearing revealing clothing etc. It's rather rare in recent decades to see a feminine black woman in media depicted as a glamorous, demure, graceful beauty that turns every head in the room like you'd see with Grace Kelly or Scarlett Johansson. White women get to play those roles all the time, but black woman are shown as more abrasive, strong in a masculine way, or the sassy best friend. I know it all comes down to the "male gaze" and how white men view white women as these dainty little princesses on a pedestal and black women as jezebels that "give you a good time" or whatever but what the hell? Black women are just as diverse in personality as white women but rarely get to be shown as anything more than the tropes shown in this video. The fact that there are SO many videos on this channel of different tropes that pertain to white women "the weird girl, the cool girl, the tough girl, the mean girl, etc" but only one or two videos about black women tropes proves that.
Seconded, I love movies, such as "The Color Purple", or "Precious", which portrays black women as vulnerable and fragile, but through the obstacles that they face, they are able to earn their happy endings, in spite of their horrible, traumatic pasts. 😁💜
As much as I love having a black princess, Princess Tiana had the same strong black women ideology. I couldn’t get over how lazy Prince Naveen was, though 🤦🏾♀️.
Well when your pampered all your life and then your parents cut you off and no nothing else thats what you turn into🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️ but completely agreed about Tiana and they had her a frog for most the movie, no other disney princess besides Jasmine was turned into an animal and that was on the Aladdin series....
Partially the reason why the little mermaid is my fav disney princess movie :) ariel's so gullible, adventurous, curious and dreamlike but tiana just reinforces that godforsaken stereotype onto us like pls
There is this artwork of a little black girl in a tutu holding a shotgun and a picture of Ahmad Arbery, Even little black girls (especially dark-skinned girls) are expected to fight for black men instead of being protected by them
Ever After eww, that’s just disgusting. what was she supposed to do? all they would’ve done was do what they did to george. who should’ve helped george? the GROWN ADULTS who could actually take on the officer(s) without being sent to their grave🤦🏾♀️
It made me at one point fear having a black daughter. I want her see herself as feminine or cute. Of course I wont push femininity onto her but I think black girls need to know they can be just as valuable as the white girl and just as feminine as the Asian girl. She can be pretty, kind, smart and not have to give one away to survive.
Exactly! And as a nerdy, quiet, and shy black girl it would be really nice to shy that represented. I plan on writing my own stories with feminine or nerdy or quiet black girls especially darker skinned black girls, but a lot more is needed than anything I alone could do.
@@ev6564 they generally don't make movies based on shy people. But the women in Hidden Figures checked all those boxes. There's a nerdy more quiet character in Black Panther.
This trope ruined my life lol. Men of other races don’t take me seriously, they want me to twerk or give myself to them easily. I always get asked to work or stay long hours. If I don’t I get seen as lazy. People want to argue with me all the time when I’m being nice and reasonable because they want me to be the angry black woman. I get told I don’t act black or I get called an “Oreo” Because I dress modest and enjoy sims and anime. I don’t fit into their box they want me to so I make them uncomfortable.
@@rosejames5172 ...and also because way too many of your black sisters actually enjoy embodying these stereotypes and are impossible to interact with. It's a two way street, honey, not everything is always somebody else's fault.
I've seen firsthand how being "strong black women" has damaged my mother, my grandmother, and my aunts. I thought I had to be a "strong black woman" and it was destroying me. It's long past time for this stereotype to die.
I resent the strong black woman stereotype because it gives us no space to be actual human beings who hurt and feel. Black women have so many positive qualities, I hate that the defining quality we're value by is strength which in codeword is how well we can take pain and anguish. That's just not a compliment to me at all. I rather be known for something beautiful, fun, creative not extremely abusive.
Hi, currently writing a novel that has a black teenager that has this stereotype. She is a side character, and is in short describes as a tomboy with a talent for mechanics. She lives with her father who runs an auto shop, and due to her mother being absent she has to play the role of employee, daughter and housekeeper. I was only half aware of the implications of this stereotype so I tried to balance her out in two ways. 1) I try to hint typical teenage curiosity and insecurity, particularly relationships. More development for the character is planned further down the line, primarily to peel back her layers. 2) Make the other characters within similar circumstances. Ex: the main character, despite being white is living with his uncle due to his parents being dead, has to work for him at his restaurant, and as a result is socially stunted. A supporting character is Hispanic and based on personal experiences, and another is a girl living in a hotel with someone who isn't related, struggling to become an artist. The reason I comment this is because I want to write a story that isn't only entertaining and unique, but also authentic to people's experience. I've tried engaging with people from multiple backgrounds in this pursuit. And likely I wish to further improve. Would you by any chance have any helpful suggestions? Is there a message worth expressing and form to display it? I hope this helps foster further discussion.
@@juanmanuelpenaloza9264 honestly the best thing I could suggest as a black teenager would be for you to trying to give her more personality traits instead of explaining why she's so strong explain how she feels about acting strong like is she sad that she has to be such a strong girl I would suggest you expand on her emotions so it doesn't come off as if she's just strong and that's the way she is
It's interesting to compare the contrasting meanings of "strength" in women across color lines, isn't it? When the image is of a black woman, it means endurance and stoicism, to the end result of selflessness; whereas if it's a white woman, it means wielding weapons, kicking ass, breaking rules, the very opposite of selflessness. The word itself cannot be depended on.
I'm am quiet, soft spoken, and nurturing. People always assume I am one of these tropes. In general, I am never treated like a lady. I have been told when I showed any emotion to suck it up. I find that a lot of people treat black women like they are men. Because of all this, despite how gentle and loving I am, I never truly felt feminine until recently when I found a man who saw me for who I truly am.
Could you please explain what you mean by "being treated like a man?" I've also been told to not show my emotions, but I've also seen women of all races get ignored and made fun of if they cry or get super emotional especially in a work environment.
@@sheonnaharris2317 being treated as though, because of the color of your skin (especially for darkskinned women) as a black woman, you must be masculine or have masculine traits that correlate with the "strong black woman" trope.
especially dark skinned black women never have the option to be selfish or to do something for themselves. they always have to be doing it for someone else.
I am the nerdy, shy, antisocial black woman. I wasn't accepted in the black community because I wasn't "black" enough. I developed a persona of the stereotypical loud, sassy black woman around others just to be accepted and it was mentally exhausting. I'll just be me.
Same. I love anime and manga. I love basketball and science. People tell me I’m “different”. I don’t think people know how much black people love all of those things, especially anime.
That’s why I love Issa Rae. I can relate to her awkward characters more than Tyler Perry’s struggle baby mama drama characters lol Edit: whew almost 3k of us agree lol
The problem with the strong black women trope is that that they portray one form of strength. It is like when we tell men not to feel or get emotional, we tell black women the same thing. Just because a person cries and is vulnerable or soft spoken or not confrontational, it does not mean they aren't strong. It also shows that you have to go through some deep hardship to be strong. That isn't always the case. Plus you can express your femininity to be strong. Now you need to do the token black guy.
I just rewatched “Not Another Teen Movie” and was blown away by how a 20 year old movie, we still have all the same stereotypes, Token Black Friend being one of them.
I feel you. I said that shit the other day. It is exhausting. I want a man that will pick me up so I can I fall apart. Real talk. I date white guys now. The emotional dependency that black men have is too much. They go from their mothers to their girlfriends, to their wives. They get their self esteem from a woman's attention. They thrive on women stroking their egos. It's one more thing that I have to deal with. I find that white guys don't always exhibit that same dysfunction. Not that they don't have it at all, but I think it's like 90% of black guys and like 50% of white guys. I need a protector. I need someone to look out for me and take care of me.
@@ineedhoez You know why? Mothers. Their mothers. Their mothers took care of them and nurtured them so they expect their wives to the same thing without complaining or needing for themselves. My mom's advice was to just get a nice, white man, lol. She was joking because she had been frustrated with my father, but the more I look at it, black men mostly go after white women because white women fetishize black men, I don't fetishize white people, but why not do the same?
I hate "resilience". It's a way of saying "these people don't need our help or our pity or guilt, because they're just miraculously elastically strong".
as a dark skinned black girl this trope really affects us in a negative way. because of it we are dehumanized and masculinized. we aren’t allowed to be sensitive and feminine. people think we are strong and don’t need a man, but most black women want to find love but we’re seen as people who don’t. hopefully there will be more positive forms of representation for black women because we really are put at the bottom.
Women who are not black (like me) often mistake this portrayal as positive since they look badass and cool but we were too biased to see this negative traits. You deserved better and i hope more people learn (specialy writers) the trope can be dehumanizing
Chris black women are allowed to refer to themselves as whatever they want, and if they want to be independent they can do so. there’s an issue with the way white writers put us in these boxes that only give us negative stereotypes. what we need are more diverse roles in the media.
Chris the thing is that most black women arent like that to begin with. these writers created this character first and because it was one of the first representations of us we see, some feel like that’s what their identity was meant to be. but most of the black women i know are just everyday women. we aren’t just a character written for us. many people just assume we are and we get treated like that. from the day we are born the world is against us. i had self love and embraced my african culture and heritage. but people in america told me that i had to change who i was to be more accepted. as a child to now i’ve been told to lighten my skin, loosen my hair, treated like i was stupid, and nobody wanted me romantically. it was a role forced upon me by others. we go through a lot and in a way we are strong, but i had to realize that i didn’t have to accept those perceptions of me. i deserve to be loved and uplifted and girly, and so does every other black girl.
@@Chris-rg6nm also, if they're ONLY seeing Black women that way then they have a really skewed perspective of the world around them or they're basing it off the toxic stereotype already perpetuated by white writers who wrote shows they watched growing up and absorbed it into their material
I think the strong black women trope arguably also implies that black women have a higher physical pain tolerance which is still a widely believed (FALSE) idea.
It’s important to note that this trope is made for media targeted for and to attract wider non-Black audiences. TV Shows like Living Single (the original Friends - yes I said it) and Girlfriends subverted this trope and showed varieties of Black women years before mainstream media caught up because it of its target audience.
Exactly. You have one black person in a movie, they have to be larger than life. This trope does exist but most of these were the dumbest examples. Felt like white, cursory apologetic nonsense all through. Anyone who went through the experiences depicted in these movies have to be stronger than most people. No one wants to watch some feeble protagonist.
The darker she is the stronger movie makes her.. when they want feminine black women they go for 1 that looks like zendaya or or 1 that you have to ask "is she black?" Basically a black woman closer to whiteness than the average black woman (the majority of black women in America dont look like zendaya they look more like lil kim before surgery) Edit: if I had this much subscribers as likes I'd be happy😂 thankkkkss y'all
I actually saw something on Facebook book the other day that made me wonder this happened. Someone made a post about the rise of the southern bell. What was said in the post makes me wonder if some of the things attributed to the southern belle didn't bleed over into black culture (after all, colorism did) because the southern belle basically drew her power from the fact that she was white. I wonder if subconsciously American culture hasn't just assumed that the lighter one's skin the more you have to be protected, cottled, etc. It's a stupid concept but the appears to be what happened.
@@shelisadaniel6718 it's not just Americans.. it bleeds over internationally granted jamaicans are protected by their men regardless of color but the lighter the skin the more dainty she's expected to be.. and you're expected to be STRONGer when you're darker..
@@aneshalove226 Yeah I thought about that after I wrote it. It's just a theory for now, one I would obviously need to research more as it just came off the top of my brain. In the Facebook post I watched, it only talked about the southern belle in the American South. I do realize that this is a thing in a lot of countries, usually anyplace that white people wound up colonizing. Do you suppose there's a reason why? (Sarcasm, of course. )
I just hope that when ever things like this are brought up that we don't undermine lighter skins and/or mixed girls black identity as well. The enemy and the wrong is the misuse and terrible real prejudices and purpose the white directors and casting and Hollywood truly are trying to portray which is force us to believe that lighter is still the only beautiful. Just bc we get to "pass" doesn't mean we are ok or do not struggle with our black identity or self-love. Especially people who are of mixed cultured. Do not undermine them or try to strip them of their black identity or assume things of how they identify themselves.
Me too but I hope she narrates more videos and not just on topics related to race. And I hope black women actually wrote this video and were involved with the research
I bet she didn't write it though. This should have been deeper than what it was. And I feel like it just stereotyped nearly every black women on TV as a stereotype. But also, looking at a selection of their other videos, this appears to be a "video bait" channel where they generate tons of content.
As a white writer, I’m quite aware of this trope and I’m trying to make sure the largest black character in my book is empowered in a different way. She’s sensible, sure, but sweet and feminine, interested in flowers and botany.
Awwwww that sounds awesome and quite frankly the most realistic depiction I've ever heard. It's like we're black before we're women/ girls. Thank you for acknowledging that. It means alot. 😢❤
Issa Rae and Michaela Coel did an incredible job on showing their audience how complex and intricate black women actually are. they're not tropes, not one thing, not one emotion. they are human and act depending on their experience, personality and ability.
@@MissEricaFlowers one of the biggest retroactive cringes I ever had was remembering how when all the moms in my 4th grade class all said "Gone With The Wind" was their favorite book.
YES. This. Besides the fact that it's just a feel-good trope which does not match the reality of the situation, we also need ideas on how to have characters help their beloved friends with darker skin tones in their times of need, WITHOUT coming across as this trope.
Percival917 I think I’ve seen some movies that could have been about the white savior trope, but I think they sort of manage to do something different and come across as less problematic. There was the Disney Channel movie called got a kick it up which is about a white teacher who starts working at a mostly Latino high school, and starts coaching the dance team which other schools would call the cheerleading team. And I feel like they somewhat avoid many of the white savior troves by portraying the teacher as having baggage from her past and by giving the students more autonomy and showing them doing stuff on their own when they feel unsupported by the teacher. Oh, and she doesn’t just decide to be the coach. She only becomes the coach because the students know she has a background in dance and they ask her to be the coach. So I think that’s one way to avoid the white savior Trove. Although it is subjective. And then I remember seeing the movie Australia starring Nicole Kidman and Hugh Jackman. Nicole Kidman’s character tries to literally save someone, specifically a half aboriginal/half white younger boy who is in danger of being taken away from his family. But that ultimately does not work out. I think this shows how the issues that aboriginal Australians phase is a huge issue, and it can’t be solved by a single white person who wants to do the right thing. Another movie might have showed her character rescuing the young boy from his fate and present it as a feel good sort of being wild glossing over the fact that the issue is more severe than just one person being put in danger of being removed from their family.
This is EXACTLY why I'm writing books with various Black girl leads. The gist of this video is that Black women are individuals and women like any other. We need variety in media because there is no singular way to represent us, and media shapes people's views of us. There are strong Black women. There are weak Black women. There are girly Black women, ditzy, clever, naive, goofy, shy, sexual, chaste, and *all kinds* of Black women. We are diverse women with different personalities and interests and deserve the same kind of judgement of individuality rather than group that white women are afforded.
As a black woman, I got emotional about 1 min into this. People act like black women can burn the candle at both ends for decades and we'll be fine. We're not.
I'm a semi-brown South Asian girl and I cried my eyes out at this. I hope everyone facing bad behavior because of their color get more respect and the attention they deserve. ❤
I'm a disability activist and I always find it interesting the different parallels one can observe when looking at the plights of different minority groups. The strong black women trope is similar to the supercrip trope in the disability/impairment/chronic illness community, and it's similar to the smart asian stereotypes - it paints all three as someone to aspire to be, and by doing that, it becomes acceptable for society to punish those not working hard enough to achieve that nearly impossible standard. And that standard is reinforced everytime we praise disabled people online, sharing videos of them being able to graduate college while ignoring the greater problem of fixing the incredibly ableist educational system that made it so damn hard to achieve that. And it's reinforced every time we publically praise a woman of color who has to suppress aspects of her identity while working far more than her white counterparts to get where she is, while we ignore the problem of fixing obstacles that made it so damn hard to get there. And it's reinforced every time we expect an entire race to be more intelligent than their white counterparts, blaming them when they fail to live up to it, and dismissing their intelligence they worked so hard to achieve as nothing more than an aspect ingrained into the DNA of that race. MINORITY GROUPS DON'T WANT YOUR PRAISE. WE WANT YOU TO FIGHT SO WE DON'T HAVE TO WORK SO DAMN HARD TO ACHIEVE THAT PRAISE.
Riigghhttttt, or being called slow because you do not understand "black lingo" generally used in poorer and/or black majority communities. Or being made fun of for going to a private school, they only stop when they ask you to buy something for them. Like ewwwwwwww.
There's not enough balance to counteract this "Strong Black Woman" and "Social Justice Warrior" representation. We need more variety in stories. I want to see black women playing the parts of house wives, career women, manic pixie dream girls, damsel's in distress, quarky geniuses. I'm tired of seeing black women being masculinized and portrayed as these independent women that don't need men, women that have to protect men, have to take care of everyone, embittered, women that don't need support, women that don't need validation, etc. This imbalance in representation is toxic. We're NOT SUPERWOMEN. The average black woman can't match men in strength, agility, and speed. We're women just like any other non-black woman. I'm human first, a woman second, and that other stuff later. Also, I'm so tired of seeing black women being treated like an equal physical threat to men. Further, people are less likely to help us because of this "Strong Black Woman" crap. Apparently, we can handle it. Look at rates at which we're being physically abused and killed. Obviously, we're not super human. Obviously, we can't take it. Resilient, sure. Magic, no. I will say, there are some positive changes in the media that I appreciate, but again, it's not balanced.
I agree with everything you said ! The only thing is, do you want to be as much objectified as white woman ? People assume that they're weak and dumb with no character They can sexually assault them easily because they're seen as weak. We should stop making tropes because it puts everyone in cases, and start writing women as human with flaws and qualities, sensitivity and strength.
@@irene5298 There's something wrong with it when BW aren't deemed worthy of protection because of some notion that we're these super human beings that can go through anything. BW are not born with exceptional strength, we live in a society that forces us to be strong.
I'm glad you showed Bonnie from The Vampire Diaries. That girl would go missing (literally missing) multiple times, and sometimes for months, and her "best friends" wouldn't think twice until they needed her to help them with their own problems.
@Weeby&Geeky Yep. That "team" worked really well saving everyone BUT Bonnie. And what happened to Enzo was honestly insult to injury. Literally showing how strong Bonnie was to stop the hellfire at the cost of her lover and then having to go through life alone. All that strength and throughout the series she had loss after loss (which she handled better than the MC) and suffered major episodes of depression and had very low self-esteem. But she pulled through and received little more than a pat on the back from her "friends".
@Weeby&Geeky I shipped Bamon too. Julie Plec is a racist though. We were all fooling ourselves to believe she would have ever put her dream boy with a black woman.
Weeby&Geeky I LOVED Bonnie and Enzo as a couple. They were arguably the healthiest couple on that show. I hated Bonnie with Jeremy. He was immature, cheated on her with a ghost, and basically gave up on her when she was stuck in the prison world with a murderer, even though she brought Jeremy back to life. TWICE. AND sacrificed herself the second time. Like, honestly, I couldn’t stand that boy. I couldn’t get into Bonnie and Damon because they were never meant to be together on the show. Damon was always going to be with Elena. ENZO on the other hand was PERFECTION when he and Bonnie got together. Before that NEITHER of them had a person in their corner. They were both very loyal to one another and at the drop of a hat they were willing to do what it took to protect the other. At the end of the day, every one of Bonnie’s friends had someone they prioritized OVER her (Damon was one of the only ones who did something selfless and decent by not hurting her to get Elena back), though she often put her life in jeopardy for them, and usually at the cost of her loved ones, her safety, and her emotional health.
This is a very interesting video. As someone who grew up in a mainly white country, my introduction to black people were American films. I always thought it was so weird that black women all seemed to have the same personality. I remember looking at actresses that were so pretty and feminine, who I would expect to be the leading actress but were never given a softer side, always angry, always snarky, never weak, always acting like the queen mom not the daydreamer princess. The same happened with Latinas of course who were always fiery and passionate which made most people expect the same from me, me being half Colombian in a country that though all Colombians should be like a Shakira videoclip, while I was an introverted bookworm. I thank the internet for opening my eyes to other representations. Specifically English and French productions, either TV or films. It's there where I got to see people of other races playing diverse roles, were they were everyday people, either nerdy, stupid, mean, kind, fashionable etc. Just like white actors. It's there were I suddenly realised that something wasn't clicking with me all these years in American films. I always felt pressure to portray my Latin side as people expected me to which makes me realize that it must be so, so, so much more overwhelming and stressful for black women...
Do you mind referencing those films to me plz? I'm a young black girl and I'm tired of not seeing good representation of black girls in American media. It's super annoying and sends the message that all of us act like that when that's simply not true. The library is my haven and I've never gotten into a physical fight in my life. I'm usual that kid in the corner at parties waiting for my friends to be done so we can go. (I don't go to parties that was just an example).
I find this trope absolutely disgusting it shows black women as inhuman strong men who can take on everyone’s problems. Black women, just like everybody else, are allowed to be tired and take mental and physical breaks. Doing it all, ALL THE DAMN TIME runs you ragged and should not be praised. I’m tired of seeing black women fighting and scratching just to get by, let us be human.
Exactly, you've really hit the nail on the head here!🔨👏🏽Let Black Women be vulnerable and flawed, but hopeful in the face of adversity, like Precious or Celie from "The Colour Purple". Nobody has all the answers, and it makes them more human and relatable. 💖
As a white woman, I always feel incredibly inspired by black women characters, or strong women in general. But this video made me see how these archetypes can also be sadly toxic. I will still forever be inspired, but will think twice before consuming narratives like this with a simple mind.
@@Chris-rg6nm I think when it was created it was used to showcase an aspect if black women that was never showcased or appreciated but as it was used by other people, the different dimensions of the trope (like to toll having to uphold this persona can take) were ignored and made the women one dimensional rather than an aspect of a whole person
I don't see this characters masculine, i just see one type of women, and that is very wrong, i agree with you on what you said, it has to give black women the same variety of characters as they do with white women
Two: medical issues I can attest to black women getting inferior care due to these stereotypes in both of my pregnancies I had significant issues. With my first son I expressed concerns about breastfeeding (my son literally ripped the flesh off of my nipple) I was told "black women have tougher skin I've never had an issue with a black woman feeding" I was then encouraged to continue feeding and expressing despite bright blood red bottles. Finally another lactation consultant had my son checked for a tongue tie. My second pregnancy was much worse I had sever hip pain that was continually dismissed it turned out my son's skull was against my hip bone and he got stuck during my C section and would up with an indent in his skull. He also ended up with a host of other issues but is doing well now. When he was in NICU i was still recovering from my csection, haemolysis, and blood transfusions; rather than be wheeled to go see my baby I had to walk to the children's Hospital with no assistance from nursing staff to feed him at all hours day and night. On my walks I could see other women being wheeled over but when I asked I was told they were too busy and I'd have to go myself.
this is disgusting... id be lying if I said I was surprised. I have endometriosis, a condition that I've complained of symptoms for since my periods started at age 10 yet I was told the all consuming paid is normal. the ovulation pain is normal, the inability to move for days is normal, throwing up for the entirety of my period is normal. the accompanying other issues are normal and I would be fine. now, as a 26 year old, nearly 27 is when a black female doctor has finally started taking me seriously and has prescribed me medication to help with the pain. Another instance: I complained of severe knee pain to my doctor that started suddenly and without my hurting myself. went to the doctors 3 times over the course of 3 months and was told nothing was there and I should take ibuprofen and I'll be fine (he did not even check). finally saw my new black female Doctor, she made me lie down and checked the movement of my knee and she could see the swelling I had said was there and after an xray - I was told my right knee had become badly inflamed due to a repetitive strain injury. my work place has yet to take my pain seriously though. one step at a time right. I'm sorry you had to endure that, stay strong ♡
I’m light skinned but I still face the same stigma’s. We may look different to each other, but the same to others. But I will never discredit what you may face on a day to day.
@@korykent5645 Women on either side of the black spectrum face issues that may not be qualitatively the same but affect them personally. She doesn't disregard dark-skinned women's issues by mentioning her own. The dark skinned woman is strong enough to overcome all her problems alone and the light skinned black woman has no problems. Back men pass up on dark skinned women, and dark skinned women drag light skinned women and basically say they're not black. It's not an exact science but there's plenty of shit to go around.
My son almost died during child birth, because the doctor thought I wasn’t trying hard enough to push. Somehow after 22hrs of labor, the thought that I might have been exhausted or that the baby’s head was too big was never considered. The black nurses pleaded with him and looked on in horror as he delayed my C-section until the last minute. Thank GOD my son was ok...just had a few cuts from the forceps the doctor used to try and force him out.
Neal Brennan said this on his podcast recently: "White women want to be princesses, black woman want to be queens." I think it goes along the idea that "she deserves a world that doesn't require her to be so strong all the time." Princesses get to be protected, carefree, and feminine; while queens have to be protective, responsible, and assertive.
I never thought of that, it kind of reminds me of how Tiana is portrayed, even though she is a Disney princess she actually has the qualities that are attributed with being a queen.
@@Melcatsite I have such a huge love/hate (well more of disappointment than "hate") relationship with this film. I adore Tiana and certain side characters that help drive the story, but this film still leaves me confused and conflicted all at once. It also doesn't help that she is the only Black woman/princess in the Disney line-up, and yet they still keep on churning out more white princesses/main leads with each new movie that they make (Moana and Coco being the exceptions/Big Hero 6 also counts considering the main cast has POC in the main roles). I still care deeply for this film, but I will not deny my critical side and act as if this movie has no problems. :/
@@majeedmamah7457 It's an effort to reclaim black women's experience as never being considered as worthy of protection. Black women have come to collectively identify with being "strong" and "independent" because they have no choice but to be.
I really cannot stand the strong black women stereotype. This affects black women in the worst way. I can’t tell you how many times people tried to use me like a mule and treated me like garbage because I’m suppose to be a “ strong black woman “ and should be able to take it. A lot of men also expect you to take on traditional roles as well as take on the role of a man like your superwoman. You also are called angry, aggressive, ghetto, masculine, etc for trying to express yourself. This also affects us in school and the work place as well not just relationships. This is how the WORLD perceives us. We need to see more positive representation of FEMININE BEAUTIFUL BLACK WOMEN who are HUMAN BEINGS WITH FEELINGS and aren’t expected to carry the world on their shoulders like a MULE.
@g7dmother •}:{• you'd enjoy being called "emotional" and "overreacting", and then "hysterical" if you dare to get angry because nobody takes you seriously or even listens to what you are saying.
My mom has been in depression for YEARS (I mean more than 20 years) BECAUSE she was taught to suck it up, cope with it simply and take everything to care for children and responsibility. Where's the man there ?
To the non black women arguing with black women about how they're portrayed in the media.....STOP and LISTEN! This is the problem! When ever black women come forward and say our perspective on our experiences here comes someone who has no idea what it's like to be us telling us what they THINK! We are well aware of our stories, how we are depicted and how it makes US feel! How can you possibly come here and argue with us about that? If we say the Strong Black Woman trope lessens our femininity then guess what it's true! If we say there is a lack of diverse depiction of black women in the media because of this trope then guess what it's true. Stop telling us that we're wrong for feeling this way or seeing things this way because you have no idea what it's like to be us. The audacity, entitlement, arrogance, and amount of privilege it takes to step to someone who experiences you will never understand, and tell them that THEY are wrong for their views about this is abusive! This is exactly why things are the way they are. Did the video not highlight for you why this trope is problematic? Where you not paying attention? You're gaslighting us and people wonder why we get angry. Unbelievable!
You are clearly not familiar with this channel to know that the voice analyzing in this video ISN'T the two portrayed in the intro. I have no idea what race this voice belongs to but it's likely that it is a black woman because the voice doesn't belong to either of the two standard narrators. Next, your passion is NOT misplaced, but you have no enemies here. Take a breath. No one is arguing with you and your opinions are valid. Okay? Okay. Lastly, I think some of the points in this video are very insightful. Hopefully you can see what I'm talking about from a logical perspective.
@@jazthespaz837 i don't think Tiffany was speaking against the video at all. just to comments of white people who are, yet again, brushing off the discussions black people bring to the table
I went into this video with a healthy amount of skepticism, thinking you guys wouldn't have the range to examine the real damage that this trope has done. But you surprised me by giving a voice to someone that can speak to this topic better than the usual people at The Take can. I really appreciate that. Too many black women have internalized this trope and see themselves as masculinized superheroes, especially dark skinned black women. But at the end of the day, black women are just women. And that's not an insult.
Ikr me too 😔 my hear was beating fast when i saw the video i thought they were gonna praise these stereotypes and not go into depth about it but I was so happily wrong they tackled the situation better than I could imagine 💖
And that is the reason why I love the show Insecure.... the main character doesn’t have any of those stereotypes. Just a normal awkward black girl who is three dimensional that makes mistakes and is afraid of confrontation but can be funny and cry instead of being strong willed. I can just relate to that more.
Black women are the most underestimated, misunderstood women. Their expectations are held up so high that to meet them would be impossible. If we, as a collective whole, could understand that they are human just doing the best they can and give them a little compassion and a safe place, maybe we can allow these women heal and be at peace. It’s ok to not be strong all time, it’s ok not to take care of everyone all the time, it’s ok to put you first.
@Nia M Looking up on wikipedia, it classified "sassy" under the sapphire category. I'm guessing the sassy black woman is downplayed version of the angry black woman (Disney channel's ones comes to my mind).
The reality is that these stereotypes are also perpetuated by real people in our lives, not just in the media. Parents, teachers, peers etc. We are always expected to be super strong and nurturing it's instilled in us since childhood. An Indian male friend told me that I am behaving like a "western" woman when I mentioned that I have no desire to get married or have children. I'm from South Africa and have lived/worked in a few other countries. The problem with being an African black woman is that you are not expected to be assertive, you are mammy. When you do speak up for yourself, eloquently and assertively, they can't understand how you think that you are an EQUAL! They either gaslight you or call you crazy behind your back. This was a good video!
My manager (along w/ a slew of teachers) love to throw that “girlfriend” at the end of the sentence to address me like....I’m not even sassy like that. I don’t even use the term “girlfriend”! Wtf?
awkwardletter95 😂😂😂 I’m laughing at this because you bring up a great point. I’m Latina and was born and raised in the Chicago inner city so I speak with a certain dialect (didn’t notice it until I lived in Southern California for 4 years). My former roommate who was a lily blonde white girl from the suburbs would speak normally with everyone else but would start her sentences with “Girl,...” when she would talk to me. I was like🤔
I'm sorry you get gaslit left and right. That can get really exhausting. At the end of the day, your choices are valid--it's your life! Let ignorant bigots do and say whatever they want--they're not worth your energy or thoughts.
I decided to start seeing a therapist years ago. My therapist is an amazing woman and has helped me through a lot. When I was going through a lot in my life and obviously severely depressed, she said to me "Don't be sad, you're a STRONG BLACK WOMAN." I will never forget how I felt when she said that. It was like I was expected to have this strength that made me immune from being depressed and suicidal. I loathe this stereotype.
I would argue that this can be very toxic. Our media are showing black woman (especially drak skinned) as independent and very masculine. White society tried to take away black woman's femininity since slavery times. The diversity of the characters played by black woman is very needed right now.
It was honestly more white women policing black women’s femininity once they realized their men were attracted to us. That’s why they had laws to cover black women’s afros.
We do need more diversity. I hope the 'strong, black woman' also gets the rewrite she deserves and is allowed to actually benefit from these traits. As a dark-skinned girl who has a more masculine aura and is fiercely independent I am often attacked for not muling (usually by people who have/ would never do anything similar for me) choosing to use my traits in a more self serving manner. I also feel attacked for celebrating my more feminine side.
The strong black woman trope is also what makes society look at little black girls as grown women , we are expected to be wiser, more mature. As a result of that we are not protected. We’re given a very short amount of time to be children.
Growing up as a dark skinned Nigerian girl in America, I always felt that I was treated as masculine and unattractive, unlike how my white female contemporaries were treated. I realize this trope feeds into how I was treated. I grew up in an era where the "pretty" black girls were those like Megan Good, Beyonce or Halle Berry, those who had lighter skin than I did.
There are drawbacks and perk side in it. Being treated as an unattractive woman all the time is bad, but it allow men to look at you with another perspective, and to know you better before try other things. Being looked upon as a sexy and fragile body all the time sucks.
Graziela Almeida yes but there’s a difference between assumptions having something “suck” and being marginalized, oppressed and traumatized. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to erase the hardships on either side, but we can’t act like they’re exactly the same. The long-standing effects are NOT the same.
I'm what you would consider as brown or light skin, and I always make it a point to uplift my darker skin sisters whenever I can. I lowkey wish I was dark skin though. You guys have the prettiest skin and features.
@soul sessions tv Bdhrh I believe it's a newer term but its existence has been w us since the 60s show Julia..w Dianne Carroll...the first tv show w a bw as a lead that was a professional ( RN). Shes safe brown...a beautiful woman and she landed on the 80s nighttime soap Dynasty...if she were darker neither of these roles would have been given to her. She's safe brown...
@@saeon4427 no, he has a valid point. There is a Strong black woman stereotype but this video doesn't do much to explain it. If you listed all the adjectives the video gives for this trope, its EVERY adjective. What do Precious and Kerry Washington on scandal have in common? What do Ola Mae (Ghost) and Ms. Cellie have in common? What do Tina Turner and the women from Hidden figures have in common? And don't say they had to endure racism, because that's all black people. And don't say they had to deal with sexism, that's all women.
@@khalmasonart Variety isn't that hard to reach. We want to also have nerdy girls, the girl next door, the girl in the corner in solitude, the girl who suffers because of mental struggles. Black women are strong, we know this. We've been strong and that has been shown. But that's not all we are. That's not all black people in general are. We want normal characters that don't have to be heroes or complete suffering outcasts to be noticed. Give us normal roles with normal yet important meanings like others, because we aren't bullet proof. We crack, and we aren't always strong. We want to be treated like people, given the chance and opportunity to be weak because we do break down. We aren't always strong black soldiers.
I just wanna say as a black european girl. That is learning english through the American culture. I think that you do a great work to make this video. I'd learn plenty things about the image and stereotypes that we had as black women in our society "because" of pop culture. And I think understanding those things help me in "my journey" of self love/image. I don't watch a lot of American shows, but I do have a global image of it. And sometimes I suffer due to those stereotypes as probably the most of us (even the messages in those shows don't always mean to convey misconception). SO a big thanks The Take from a Belgian new subscriber ^^ And last but not least the (ennoying) "sorry for bad english folks" ! XD PS: I know that I still make faults in my phrasing but I hope that the people whose reading my comment understood me. Have a nice day y'all and HAPPY NEW YEAR in advance.
This video summed almost eveything that is happening with us black girls. The one that really gets me is the angry black woman/sapphire thing. Every time I go to the store with my mom and something goes wrong at the checkout, my mom likes to check them when they're wrong in a respectful manor (as she should). But whenever she raises her voice a little bit, I catch myself subconsciously cringing bc I instantly know that she is going to be seen as the aggressive black woman by ppl watching. This makes me so mad bc even when we are rightfully angry or upset, we also have to be forced to suppress those emotions in fear of fitting a stupid stereotype. I'm a quiet person but when I get mad in public, I usually force myself to suppress that anger so I don't get stares or "why are you being aggressive?" question. It's a real struggle and it needs to change.
Exactly exactly. Which just want a good old normal film or show with a black women as a lead or supporting character is that too much to as for? No 'black struggle/gang/dysfunction' films
That part about how the worth of black women is often ascribed to our behavioral characteristics and not an innate respect of human value...i felt that. Didn't really think about it in that way particularly and I'm grateful to Ms Harris Perry for putting it into words. I definitely feel like once I am suddenly not agreeable or assert myself or express a grievance, I'm often ostracized or met with indignation or suddenly demonized even. It's hard to be a black woman. It's hard to have, navigate and express emotions as a black woman. We should be seen as intrinsically of value.
One of the biggest reasons why black women are portrayed as always "strong" is because that is what most black men and white people respect about black women, and since they influence media more than we do, we always get stuck with these portrayals. We need more black women changing the narrative.
I do appreciate the strong black women roles but they make us seem so superhuman that we never get to be portrayed as soft, and feminine. I really want this superhuman black female stereotype to be put to rest for a little bit because that inadvertently emasculates the men and makes some men not want a black woman because they already feel inferior based on how we are represented.
The minute Miranda Bailey (Grey’s anatomy) stopped taking care of everyone else and putting all her focus on the other characters and got her own personality and flaws and troubles people instantly started hating on her. I definitely think there’s a deeper meaning than that because the fans are more than happy to accept all the other women’s flaws
Ditto, I'm glad that they got a woman of colour to narrate this video, since Susannah and Debra, the women mostly behind this channel, are white, and she might understand the topic a little bit more, plus she helps to disprove stereotypes commonly associated with this archetype. 👩🏾💙
I am hoping too that she doesn't just narrative videos that take on POC discussions/portrayals/films-- I would love to hear more of her! Let her do videos that aren't just about race
I am a BW that is strong and multilayered. There are various types of strength, i.e quiet, bold etc. I have no qualms about being a woman with strength and dynamism. This doesn't mean that I'm not a human. It's nothing wrong with being strong. I think the biggest problem with being a strong BW is allowing BM and non Blacks to use BW's strength against themselves and using BW's strength for their self serving purposes. For instance, many BM NEED a strong BW when they often want to divest themselves of mature responsibilities and to cover their feelings of inadequacy or cowardice especially concerning protection of BW. As this video reveals, Non Blacks NEED strong BW so that they can cover up their racial bias or their lack of will to remedy racial bias/sexism towards BW. BW should be free to be what we need to be in our interpersonal relationships and we need a make over and get control as it relates to our public image and on screen.
The thing is black women especially my dark-skinned sisters have internalised these limiting stereotypes as we have been placed in positions because( ik I'm gonna be attacked but so be it that) our men simply don't protect us like we do and are willing to berate us with colouristic remarks - what other races of men subject their women with such treatment, so we adopting the strong blk women to counter this. We are perceived as masculine by accepting this stereotype through acting as the provider.
Protect you...how? From what? No women in my family have been assaulted or even disrespected on any level. Not on my watch. I’m 6’ 2”, 220 for a reason. I protect & provide for my family. My wife is the happiest, most chill woman on the planet. It doesn’t hurt that she’s beautiful & carries herself as a lady. She had a protective father in her life so she knows the natural order. I come from good stock myself; my mother & father, grandparents, etc instilled strong values & principles. I’m tired of this bullshit narrative. Most of the brothers in my circle are hard working family men..& definitely not punks!! Maybe y’all looking in the wrong places...
I think this and also that we HAD to be the head of households as men went to wars, took more submissive roles in relationships, and then were disproportionately placed in jail or simply abandoned us. We have to constantly be strong for ourselves and our families because no one. And I mean no one is going to help us. Not even our doctors 😓
Often times people see the strong black women as superhuman that they can endure all but we must remember that she is human and she is flawed like everyone she has weakness. She deserves to be taken care of as well.
I live half way around the world, and always figured all black american women were "the strong black woman". I thought them superior to white women, based on their seaming resilience. But it's true that when you are portrayed a certain way, you lose (in a sense) the option to be yourself- if the self you are doesn't match the stereotype.
A lot of Black females have that problem with themselves. They feel they are “weird” because they don’t fit the stereotype that the world projects on us.
The strong black woman is often depicted as practically a-sexual or dating the single, left over man that no one else is attracted to. One example is Abbie Mills of Sleepy Hollow. She is an attractive woman, yet no man except for her ex seemed to be attracted to her, nor is she attracted to any one. Contrast that with Ichabod Crane, who seemed to attract just about every woman that he came across. Another example is Bonnie Bennett who had only 2 relationships over the multiple seasons of the show. The first relationship was with her friend's little brother and the second was with a man who had been rejected that same friend's boyfriend's mother. Every other guy that she was attracted to was used her, tricked her or was murdered.
Ugh, you triggered me with that Sleepy Hollow thing. That whole show was the trope on display. Ichabod running after his wife, the vulnerable and sweet damsel in distress while the black female sidekick was just masculinized to death. I’m sure the writers would have been tired at some point of that circus and have them hook up but the original set up was so comically one-dimensional, I’m not surprised it got canceled.
I rarely use this word, but, PREACH! As someone who watched both shows, it's nice to see others who understand. And you forgot the disgusting writer who actually tried to pair Bonnie up with the son of the man her biological mother married and practically raised after she ghosted on Bonnie.
Rewatch the first season. Tom Mison(Ichabod Crane) during an interview stated "he's clearly in love with her" when asked about Ichabod and Abbie, so he portrayed it that way. Also, Abbie Mills was originally written for a white woman to play, which would explain why there's a budding romance during the first season. I don't doubt the showrunners script sabotage/ship baiting in later seasons were purely motivated by race.
@@ebonspace lisa turtle was actually a pretty groundbreaking character. Before her, it was pretty unusual to see the pretty popular fashionista girl being black. And they made it clear she was one of the most sought after girl in school
The CZcamsr Chrissie is largely responsible for bringing this to light let’s all support her channel. They put dark skinned black women in these roles more than anything and it puts us in harms way while hurting our image. I’m glad black women are waking up to the truth.
I hate this trope bc if u don’t act like this then ur told that you “act white”. Like we’re not all super sassy and loud (which there’s nothing wrong w that) but it’s just so annoying
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Please cover the Fat Girl archetype at some point! 😊
Who's the narrator? She doesn't sound like the two ladies usually on this channel.
Lolita tropes! !
Who is the narrator???!! Please give her some credit for all of the hard work she put into this video.
@@redpinkandwhite102 According to the credits, her name is Alana Barrett-Adkins. 💕
"At worst, these depictions risk implying that black women do not need systemic change, because they're strong enough to withstand society's abuse."
EXACTLY. Thank you.
As if anyone being able to "take" abuse justifies abusing them
Precisely, I wish that they'd depict more flawed, realistic and vulnerable black women in mainstream media, and not have them be the "Divine Mentor" towards the typically white protagonist. 👏🏽💚
Yes.
Heidi G : I also wish that our displays of “strength” wasn’t defined by how well we can endure abuse!
Deer God. Everything is 'problematic'. No matter what you depict. You show a woman as evil? Problem. Good? Problem. Maternal? Problem. Strong? Problem. Sad? Problem. Happy? Problem.
Get a life. Or better, see a shrink. You apparently need one.
And this trope is mostly given to darker skinned black women
If they want a damsel in distress/a princess, they usuly cast lighter skin ppl - its sad tbh. Do u know they were gonna animate tiana as a lighter person.
Saron Asmerom who tiana???
@@starlord6433 From Princess and the Frog
@@starlord6433 The Princess and the Frog
Saron Asmerom right and when they want the black girl to be complex, multi dimensional and alternative they still have lightskin mixed girls be the faces for that even doe growing up in inner city Brooklyn there were dark skin black girls and women who were both hood and alternative and the lightskin mixed girls were straight hood and Thoting and bopping
Because of these stereotypes people will be like “You don’t act black.”
In highschool I always got told "you talk so white"
Just because I'm a fairly shy well annunciated talker. I hate that white is associated with being well spoken and black is associated with being "ghetto"
Very true
Big Blue Weeaboo are you into Japanese culture?
Thank you for saying that.
I get that so much. If I don't snap off on someone or "check" them for something trivial then I am perceived as weak. If I use proper english then I'm told "I talk white". It's like a lose lose situation for black women.
"The strong black womans power is only celebrated when it is in service to others"
Never when she is saving herself
That's because putting others before yourself is one of the strongest traits of a Christian. The more we get away from that and indulge in the concept of self-love and putting yourself above others, the less we get away from Christian principles, thus, salvation. A self-sacrificing woman will always warrant my respect and devotion. It's the only kind of woman I want raising our children.
This isn't 100%true. Tina Turner saves herself and her career. Living Single, Dream Girls and She's gotta have it have ambitious black woman whose eventual strength and triumph is self served.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Exactly
Not powerful
A USEFUL IDIOT
in service to whites
vs
The BLACK MAN
SHE IS OUR ENEMY!
facts
Colourism is a huge factor in this trope. Most of these women are dark skinned
Exactly
This.. No one admits this
Girl speak your truth ✊🏾✊🏾
Preach on things ppeople won't address
Kodak said he like light skin women cause their easier to break down. That says something
"At worst these depictions risk implying that black women do not need systemic change because they're strong enough to withstand society's abuse...In reality suffering and abuse can frequently lead to trauma, mental illness and other toxic cycles." SPEAK
🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌
💯💯💯💯
goes for other women as well
@@virces6563 no
@@virces6563 Yet. This is a video about the strong black woman trope in media. Be gone or be quiet 🤫
This stereotype literally kills us in the medical field
I know, ask Serena Williams if she hadn't been an advocate for her own health Serena might not be alive today.😑
It’s awful
Really,how so?
How?
This kills us in all fields. Love, medical anything you can think of. This has destroy our image.
My sister died because the nurse, doctors, practically the entire hospital ignored her after her C section surgery, then find out in America black females die from birth complications more because the treatment no one talks about after they give birth is lacking. Everyone keep saying she was so strong, yes black females can be strong but they are only human first and humans can be multi dimensional, its ok if they cry, its ok if they are not strong every day, why do everyone gets to be cuddled and get to be babied, get to be weak and black woman or men always have to be unbreakable, America that does not make sense.
So sorry your sister had to experience this! Sending you love ❤️
So sorry for your loss. It so sad that black women all over the world have to go through these injustices
so sorry for your loss x
Oh my God. That is so cruel and horrible and disgusting. I'm so sorry for your loss. Poor girl/woman.
Sick society.
I'm sorry for your lost❤
We need more soft🌸feminine roles for dark skinned black women.
Your not white
g7dmother •}:{• lol someone give her a cookie
..so that feminists can complain about women being portrayed as soft and feminine..
Have you seen the film The photograph? I know it’s not a series but Issa is portrayed as soft and feminine and serves looks in every scene ♥️♥️
Samara Worlobah thank you!!!
I wanna see a black female character that is shy, introvert, and not so strong-tempered, to change the stereotype.
Lauren Faust's DC SUPER HERO GIRLS'S BUMBBLEBEE thats EXACTLY her take on the character and she is a super hero! check that out if you like
@@alejandrocervantes3624 Yeah and iridessa from the tinkerbell movies.
salad caesar lol true
I don't know that i wanna see that either, but it wouldn't hurt to have some diversity
So that feminists can complain about the patriarchy pushing gender stereotypes of women being calm and submissive bla bla bla...
It's also worth noting that black women (and men) don't typically get proper lighting for their skin tone on screen. Once you realize that, you start noticing it all the time and it irks me so much, it's like the film-makers saying that character doesn't matter. Barry Jenkins (Moonlight, If Beale St Could Talk) did a seminar at my school and he talked about how he adjusts the lighting to make black skin beautiful on screen. It's stunning. Film makers and lighting designers should take notes.
Exactly! They do this to Danai Gurira on The Walking Dead all the time, so everyone is always surprised how pretty the actress is in real life.
Bronze skin doesn't have to be lit to he beautiful. It is.
A racist industry trying their best to make white folk look unrealistic in their portrayal (we all know white folk even Asian skin looks different in the real world). Stranger things is a good example. White folks from the set ensure Lucas is always smudged with beige lipstick on his upper lips with terrible lighting to ensure the white characters appear more human and glow when they don't in real life. Point blank. Stand a black person by a white in sunlight with no makeup and you'll see how fake TV is with white portrayal and the intentional de-beautifying done to african beauty. That's why instantaneous blew up. Black Beauty was presented without white racist control in the system and boom everyone wants to look like these women from glowy skin, contrast, voluminous hair, and the features of course.
tikapaprika I was just about to comment this. TWD does not know how to light black ppl at all
It was worse in old movies.
I remember watching a video before and they were talking about how cameras use to be made to adjust to lighter tones including skin tone. Camera companies didn't consider adjusting their cameras until they realized it was difficult taking ad pictures for chocolate and couldn't see the image well bc it looked way too dark to see.🤦🏾♀️
But even tho that's changed people still don't put enough lighting on dark skin actor's faces. Makes school pictures look trashy.
wow, i didn't know this. thanks for the info!
Outside of Black Panther, I noticed the black female superheroes are portrayed by light skinned or mixed race actresses, even if they are based on comic book characters who are dark skinned. Black male characters can be portrayed as any complexion. The most appropriate opportunity to have a strong black woman in a movie or TV series and she's automatically light skinned...
in the original black panther comics, storm is darker than t'challa and you know she is meant to be dark skinned because they gave the characters varying black skin tones, (for example, killmonger is more brown) so I was very surprised to see that they could accurately cast t'challa but storm was played by mixed women on the big screen.
That’s so true AMANDLA STEINBERG is every dark skin every and it’s so damn annoying
@Lizania Rodriguez go to the fiery Latina trope video
All the woman you guys are naming are mixed...
Why are you so obsessed with shades?
" The strong black woman is only celebrated when she's serving other"
Time to use it for themselves 💕
Say it again!!
miranda on grey’s anatomy
@@greendust6512 i hope you do stay away from black women. Thank you
@@greendust6512 Thanks. We appreciate you doing us black women a huge solid by staying the F away from us.
@@greendust6512 You sound stupid.
We couldn’t even escape this trope with the Princess & the Frog.
Aleia exactly. I hate/love that movie. Let black little girls have fairytales!
I related to the movie so much that it took a while for me to question why our story had to be that way.
@Cherry Muse i can only see it being offensive as having the characters being frogs most of the time. can you explain the more offenses?
@@augustm2771 Personally, I found it irriatating that the only black princess was less of a princess and more of a glorified strong, broke, black woman stereotype, complete with a dusty man that she "fixes up." I was waiting for the castles and ballrooms like the other princesses and instead her ending was here's your jobless man and 9-5 restaurant job!! Blech.
@@the_emmasculator ohhhhh I see it now cuz I was like why dose everyone hate princess and the frog but now that u mention that she didn't get her ballrooms and castles like all the other white princess it makes senses now such a shame cuz I loved that movie :(
my dad always told me that just because you CAN live through something terrible doesn't mean you should have to. even if black women all would be strong enough to withstand society's abuse, doesn't mean they would have to.
Amen
They should go transgender.
..then he punched my momma
Black women are not oppressed or abused. Look at what women in dictatorships go through and then find tell me your “abused”
As a white writer, I just wanted to say this video really gave me a lot to think about regarding how I write my black female characters. Also wanted to thank all of the black women in the comments section for their insightful threads. I don’t want to be a disruptive presence by responding to anyone in particular, but I found this video and comment section to be really enlightening! Even though I’m white, I really hope that this insight will help me to do black women justice in my work and give them the nuanced, complex stories they deserve!
Great! Thanks for taking in the info in the comments well and reflecting upon it. And hopefully you won't be discouraged even if it gets hard to write, so I wish you the best of luck!
Thank you for being respectful in your comment. Yes, please take what you’ve learned to make productive and positive change. The world really needs it.
Thank you!!
I’m currently writing and I’m doing the exact same thing! I’m glad this video exists, and many others, to help me flesh out my characters and write better.
@@prospus468 I don't know about apologizing for whiteness, but when someone clarifies that they are white, it is saying "I am aware that I am not central to this experience and therefore my opinions do not override the people who are". It's not apologizing for whiteness.
Also, this isn't America. You are on the internet. FYI, that's worldwide.
This trope is so dangerous and awful it has basically stripped black women in general of being feminine and innocent ,its most used on dark skin women
dear black girl Exactly Sis!
Exactly. It makes us be seen as masculine.
Exactly!
Yep. Only those who date, work with or have siblings who are black women know the truth.
Everyone else is just afraid to get close because they're raised to believe they're aggressive - especially dark-skinned women.
Is it? As a white girl, I am jealous we don't have that stereotype. It is kinda empowering. The closest to that is a bisexual kickass white girl.
Still, I can't fully disagree with you, being put in a box is always uncomfortable and wrong.
Edit: I got so many reply, everyone is either racist to black or white people or too deep in white shame. I doubt America would ever move on from racism, if everyone is unable to hold a calm, coherent discussion regarding race perspectives. I am not talking about a few of black folks who didn't jump to their guns and actually did a great job explaining their view.
This been a stereotype particularly associated with darker skinned black women. It important when black female writers do great things and bring that stereotype out to put them in diverse personalities and characteristics
Hear hear
it reflects society in its pursuit nature, American predominantly.
a person of color who rises above the stereotype they are given, to show they are more than they are worth are encouraged, and hoisted on sholders. yet, if they fail to achieve that, riches grandeur and the such, they are seen, as as failure, even when surpassing that of the racial majority.
Kevin 5012 facts
It's so interesting that you mentioned that. I have a sister who is light skinned (I am a light skinned male) and she had to deal with the feelings of not being black "enough" because.of her skin tone. I have also had to deal with those feelings.
Raaid Cotman-El well I’m sorry you and your sister had to deal with that and that’s why there are better shows to showcase the experience as lighter skin mixed race people that not black enough thing comes from the fact of course society pressuring negative stereotypes of black peoples that they have internalized as well as the fact that mixed race people are pushed together with black people when they are they’re own people
Writers literally pick one personality traits and discard all other emotional range for black female chatacters.
Black women: Sensitive, strong, sweet, sensual, complex, angry, graceful, happy, tearful, empowered, healthy, and dynamic. We are everything every other women is. But no matter how an individual behaves, it still reflects on all of us. It isn't fair. We just want to be who we are and feel what we feel
If there's one black actress in a movie, she can't encapsulate the full spectrum of personalities without becoming a trope, and portrayed realistically would seem to promulgate one stereotype over another.
Movies in general are formulaic and need events/circumstances/issues to push the plot, obstacles for protagonists to overcome. Who is going to watch Rambo balking at the thought of taking down an army, or a black woman who crawls into herself when her problems get to her? These are portrayals of people larger than life and movies always reflect the environment in which they're created,
I get the point, but these are some of the worst examples I've ever seen of stereotypes being perpetuated.
I don’t think people understand that we want black women to be in other roles that don’t just present them as strong and sassy I want black villains, black manic pixie dream girls, black mean girls, black housewives, black rom com leads, literally I want a black women in every trope they can be in we are just as 3 dimensional as other women and I am tired of us just being viewed in our current tropes!! It’s 2020 people
Edit: this is ESPECIALLY important for dark skinned women the black women who are casted in the roles I mentioned above they are almost always light skinned and I am tired of it LET DARK SKINNED WOMEN BE SOFT they feel and experience just as much as us light skinned women do and they need to be represented just as much if not more
It had to be said. I hope this happens soon. And I live to see it.
This is the one...👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 idk why it's so hard for ppl to understand this!
@@bumblebee_0112 it’s hard to understand cause a majority of women praise and are about this identity. BW who talk about not needing men, they can do it all etc etc etc. you can walk out side right now and find a BW who will be about this. Shidd sad af
@KStar yes!
I'd love to see more pampered black housewives
Perfect timing to post this during Mental Health Month. Being a Strong Black Woman is exhausting. Don't praise her, give her help and let her take a nap.
Stephanie Perry indeed, tiring
Love it! Naps are totally underrated
Please and thank u. Offer her some tea. I am assuming we are worth a cup of tea
I guess they are facing same problem what medical staff and essential workers are facing all over world right now..they need legit, tangible help and hollow words of praise..😅😧
Stimulus checks for black women!!! 😁😁😁 we deserve it 😎😎😎 lol we need a break.
"She deserves a world that doesn't require her to be so strong all the time"
"She Deserves A World That Doesn't Require Her To Be So Strong All The Time"
(One more time for the people in the back)
✊🏾" SHE DESERVES A WORLD THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE HER TO BE SO STRONG ALL THE TIME" ✊🏾
Good things must be said three times
Lajla Jean Amen.
Amen, sister, let Black Women be flawed and vulnerable, and not just be a sounding board for the (usually) white protagonist. 👩🏾💜🙌🏾
Well said
Lajla Jean 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾💯
I wonder why it is considered "hot and spicy" when Latina women are being angry, but if it's a black woman it's a fearful angry black woman trope? I just don't get it
Racism
Racism for sure. They treat us like we’re not sensitive or feminine. It makes me sick.
Because Latina women are considered to be more feminine-looking and so they get sexualized.
racism~ and fetishising latinas.
@@rosejames5172 oh yes, everything is racism. You live in a bubble.
“Don’t make this about race” is the number one phrase racist people say, they don’t want to face their biases.
Exactly
Like the people who were kiling Asians during this pandemic
That really depends on the situation. As someone who's been watching on the sideline of these debates where comments like “Don’t make this about race” happen, I think it depends on the context and subject. Certain times race is called into the topic without relevance. And other times race is indeed a major factor and should be talked about. So I think just because someone says “Don’t make this about race” doesn't mean they are a racist. It depends on what's being talked about.
@@Jasmine-mw5ku exactly. where I live, we have a very famous reality show (Big Brother), and almost half of the cast was black. While in the beginning it sounded great to have some representation on the media, by the end of the first month we had the biggest rejection, from all reality shows. A black woman, a rapper, was eliminated with 99,17% of the votes. One week before her, another black man was eliminated from the show with 98,76% of the votes. They were tremendously cruel to other participants, expelled another black man (who quit the show) from the table were they were going to have lunch, humiliated him when they were on live, made fun of the accent of a woman who comes from the northeast of the country and many other awful things. If you look, you'll see that most of the rejected are black, and if you don't know the context, you will assume it is because of race, but if you watched the show, you'll see it wasn't.
Sounds racist to me.
Yes I absolutely hate how they then turn it around to we're being racist because we call it out
This trope has also been used as a sexist attack towards black women who embrace their femininity. The stereorype that we are so strong is used to strip the femininity from those of us who like being feminine women. We are said to be manly, emaculating to our men and undeserving of romantic love without struggle. This trope teaches black women to accept struggle love like no other.
Gurlllllll You just said it all. I just broke this down to a caucasian woman that took issue with the video. This trope has completely brainwashed most Men, making it dam near impossible to form Healthy relationships. The minute you don't eat shit and take it, You're a Man.
@soul sessions tv Bdhrh No Sweaty, Struggle love as in A relationship where you are habitually treated unfairly and then are expected to stay. MONEY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT LOL. If you unfamiliar with this term, You're probably living this way convinced that crap is normal when it isn't. There is a difference between natural ups and downs in a relationship and someone who is a habitual line crosser.
@@Ladybug-no9sc Yes. I realized this as a young girl growing up.
a.d.w. n. It’s sucks, it’s too many insecurities I conjured up just by watching something on screen
The worst part is society's view of everyday feminine black women is more like the jezebel, sexually obsessed and wearing revealing clothing etc. It's rather rare in recent decades to see a feminine black woman in media depicted as a glamorous, demure, graceful beauty that turns every head in the room like you'd see with Grace Kelly or Scarlett Johansson. White women get to play those roles all the time, but black woman are shown as more abrasive, strong in a masculine way, or the sassy best friend.
I know it all comes down to the "male gaze" and how white men view white women as these dainty little princesses on a pedestal and black women as jezebels that "give you a good time" or whatever but what the hell? Black women are just as diverse in personality as white women but rarely get to be shown as anything more than the tropes shown in this video. The fact that there are SO many videos on this channel of different tropes that pertain to white women "the weird girl, the cool girl, the tough girl, the mean girl, etc" but only one or two videos about black women tropes proves that.
She would like a world that doesn't require her to be strong 😭😭
Seconded, I love movies, such as "The Color Purple", or "Precious", which portrays black women as vulnerable and fragile, but through the obstacles that they face, they are able to earn their happy endings, in spite of their horrible, traumatic pasts. 😁💜
Amen!
Exactly！
Whew!!! What a world that would be!
That really hit hard
I'm disappointed that colorism was not included in this conversation.
@panmensizar It matters, goofball.
Baby steps, I guess.😒
black people cant defeat colorism, in fact we depend on it
manovrsb You mean *YOU* depend on it? lmao speak for yourself💀
But this video is not about colorism
As much as I love having a black princess, Princess Tiana had the same strong black women ideology. I couldn’t get over how lazy Prince Naveen was, though 🤦🏾♀️.
Well when your pampered all your life and then your parents cut you off and no nothing else thats what you turn into🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️ but completely agreed about Tiana and they had her a frog for most the movie, no other disney princess besides Jasmine was turned into an animal and that was on the Aladdin series....
Prince Naveen is not black or is he? I always thought he was a dark skinned Indian/South Asian.
Partially the reason why the little mermaid is my fav disney princess movie :) ariel's so gullible, adventurous, curious and dreamlike but tiana just reinforces that godforsaken stereotype onto us like pls
It's always about struggle love
AND how tiana was just the black character there to give her friend charlotte some advice.. always putting others' needs before her own ugh
There is this artwork of a little black girl in a tutu holding a shotgun and a picture of Ahmad Arbery, Even little black girls (especially dark-skinned girls) are expected to fight for black men instead of being protected by them
**Little Dark skin black girls
There was a black man who shamed a 17 year old black girl for not protecting Geronge and video taping.
I saw it too. I was completely disgusted
@@nevadapolite6517 It needs to be made because it's true.
Ever After eww, that’s just disgusting. what was she supposed to do? all they would’ve done was do what they did to george. who should’ve helped george? the GROWN ADULTS who could actually take on the officer(s) without being sent to their grave🤦🏾♀️
*I'm so tired of it. Why can't we ever be nerdy, quiet, shy, quirky, valued for our beauty, or - god forbid - a damsel in distress?*
Exactly
It made me at one point fear having a black daughter. I want her see herself as feminine or cute. Of course I wont push femininity onto her but I think black girls need to know they can be just as valuable as the white girl and just as feminine as the Asian girl. She can be pretty, kind, smart and not have to give one away to survive.
Exactly. Does it hurt to have darkskin black women portrayed like this?
Exactly! And as a nerdy, quiet, and shy black girl it would be really nice to shy that represented. I plan on writing my own stories with feminine or nerdy or quiet black girls especially darker skinned black girls, but a lot more is needed than anything I alone could do.
@@ev6564 they generally don't make movies based on shy people. But the women in Hidden Figures checked all those boxes. There's a nerdy more quiet character in Black Panther.
This trope ruined my life lol.
Men of other races don’t take me seriously, they want me to twerk or give myself to them easily.
I always get asked to work or stay long hours. If I don’t I get seen as lazy.
People want to argue with me all the time when I’m being nice and reasonable because they want me to be the angry black woman.
I get told I don’t act black or I get called an “Oreo” Because I dress modest and enjoy sims and anime.
I don’t fit into their box they want me to so I make them uncomfortable.
That's racism dear.
I feel for you
We must change this
I love sims and anime
@@rosejames5172 ...and also because way too many of your black sisters actually enjoy embodying these stereotypes and are impossible to interact with. It's a two way street, honey, not everything is always somebody else's fault.
Same. I'm a black chick who loves scifi. So high school was all about not being "black" or some such nonsense.
I've seen firsthand how being "strong black women" has damaged my mother, my grandmother, and my aunts. I thought I had to be a "strong black woman" and it was destroying me. It's long past time for this stereotype to die.
I resent the strong black woman stereotype because it gives us no space to be actual human beings who hurt and feel. Black women have so many positive qualities, I hate that the defining quality we're value by is strength which in codeword is how well we can take pain and anguish. That's just not a compliment to me at all. I rather be known for something beautiful, fun, creative not extremely abusive.
GirlYouAlreadyKnow Preach! My ability to endure pain and anguish is the LEAST Interesting thing about me as a Black Woman!
Hi, currently writing a novel that has a black teenager that has this stereotype. She is a side character, and is in short describes as a tomboy with a talent for mechanics. She lives with her father who runs an auto shop, and due to her mother being absent she has to play the role of employee, daughter and housekeeper.
I was only half aware of the implications of this stereotype so I tried to balance her out in two ways. 1) I try to hint typical teenage curiosity and insecurity, particularly relationships. More development for the character is planned further down the line, primarily to peel back her layers. 2) Make the other characters within similar circumstances. Ex: the main character, despite being white is living with his uncle due to his parents being dead, has to work for him at his restaurant, and as a result is socially stunted. A supporting character is Hispanic and based on personal experiences, and another is a girl living in a hotel with someone who isn't related, struggling to become an artist.
The reason I comment this is because I want to write a story that isn't only entertaining and unique, but also authentic to people's experience. I've tried engaging with people from multiple backgrounds in this pursuit. And likely I wish to further improve. Would you by any chance have any helpful suggestions? Is there a message worth expressing and form to display it?
I hope this helps foster further discussion.
@@juanmanuelpenaloza9264 honestly the best thing I could suggest as a black teenager would be for you to trying to give her more personality traits instead of explaining why she's so strong explain how she feels about acting strong like is she sad that she has to be such a strong girl I would suggest you expand on her emotions so it doesn't come off as if she's just strong and that's the way she is
@@ivysweetieheart9770 Gotcha. Thank you for your feedback.
It's interesting to compare the contrasting meanings of "strength" in women across color lines, isn't it? When the image is of a black woman, it means endurance and stoicism, to the end result of selflessness; whereas if it's a white woman, it means wielding weapons, kicking ass, breaking rules, the very opposite of selflessness. The word itself cannot be depended on.
I'm am quiet, soft spoken, and nurturing. People always assume I am one of these tropes. In general, I am never treated like a lady. I have been told when I showed any emotion to suck it up. I find that a lot of people treat black women like they are men. Because of all this, despite how gentle and loving I am, I never truly felt feminine until recently when I found a man who saw me for who I truly am.
I felt this
ULGROTHA imma be honest I can’t really process this so I don’t know if your being condescending or not
Random citizen, that's great that you found someone who treats you like a human being, and who likes you for who you truly are!
Could you please explain what you mean by "being treated like a man?" I've also been told to not show my emotions, but I've also seen women of all races get ignored and made fun of if they cry or get super emotional especially in a work environment.
@@sheonnaharris2317 being treated as though, because of the color of your skin (especially for darkskinned women) as a black woman, you must be masculine or have masculine traits that correlate with the "strong black woman" trope.
especially dark skinned black women never have the option to be selfish or to do something for themselves. they always have to be doing it for someone else.
this and i have stopped
I am the nerdy, shy, antisocial black woman. I wasn't accepted in the black community because I wasn't "black" enough. I developed a persona of the stereotypical loud, sassy black woman around others just to be accepted and it was mentally exhausting. I'll just be me.
I had to do the same thing in middle school....
Same, I'm learning to unpack.
Same. I love anime and manga. I love basketball and science. People tell me I’m “different”. I don’t think people know how much black people love all of those things, especially anime.
So is the black community perpetuating this stereotype as well?
yep...just be you.
That’s why I love Issa Rae. I can relate to her awkward characters more than Tyler Perry’s struggle baby mama drama characters lol
Edit: whew almost 3k of us agree lol
Yesss this🙌🏾
Right!! Same here.
Yes, I love that silly little woman. She is so refreshingly awkward and deeply funny!
She is very relatable indeed
I can't relate to any of them
The problem with the strong black women trope is that that they portray one form of strength. It is like when we tell men not to feel or get emotional, we tell black women the same thing. Just because a person cries and is vulnerable or soft spoken or not confrontational, it does not mean they aren't strong. It also shows that you have to go through some deep hardship to be strong. That isn't always the case. Plus you can express your femininity to be strong. Now you need to do the token black guy.
I'd like to see a vulnerable man or woman who expresses their emotions openly without them coming across as a crybaby
This.
I just rewatched “Not Another Teen Movie” and was blown away by how a 20 year old movie, we still have all the same stereotypes, Token Black Friend being one of them.
@@RandomSkyeRoses Oddly enough, eu have a few examples in animation like aang from avatar and steven universe.
Not another teen movie is a parody meant to have all the stereotypes though.....
I'm tired of being strong.
Same tbh
I feel you. I said that shit the other day. It is exhausting. I want a man that will pick me up so I can I fall apart. Real talk. I date white guys now. The emotional dependency that black men have is too much. They go from their mothers to their girlfriends, to their wives. They get their self esteem from a woman's attention. They thrive on women stroking their egos. It's one more thing that I have to deal with. I find that white guys don't always exhibit that same dysfunction. Not that they don't have it at all, but I think it's like 90% of black guys and like 50% of white guys.
I need a protector. I need someone to look out for me and take care of me.
@@ineedhoez 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
ineedhoez it’s important to find someone who you can be both strong and weak with.
@@ineedhoez You know why? Mothers. Their mothers. Their mothers took care of them and nurtured them so they expect their wives to the same thing without complaining or needing for themselves. My mom's advice was to just get a nice, white man, lol. She was joking because she had been frustrated with my father, but the more I look at it, black men mostly go after white women because white women fetishize black men, I don't fetishize white people, but why not do the same?
I hate "resilience". It's a way of saying "these people don't need our help or our pity or guilt, because they're just miraculously elastically strong".
as a dark skinned black girl this trope really affects us in a negative way. because of it we are dehumanized and masculinized. we aren’t allowed to be sensitive and feminine. people think we are strong and don’t need a man, but most black women want to find love but we’re seen as people who don’t. hopefully there will be more positive forms of representation for black women because we really are put at the bottom.
Women who are not black (like me) often mistake this portrayal as positive since they look badass and cool but we were too biased to see this negative traits. You deserved better and i hope more people learn (specialy writers) the trope can be dehumanizing
@@Chris-rg6nm 😐😐😐 wrong
Chris black women are allowed to refer to themselves as whatever they want, and if they want to be independent they can do so. there’s an issue with the way white writers put us in these boxes that only give us negative stereotypes. what we need are more diverse roles in the media.
Chris the thing is that most black women arent like that to begin with. these writers created this character first and because it was one of the first representations of us we see, some feel like that’s what their identity was meant to be. but most of the black women i know are just everyday women. we aren’t just a character written for us. many people just assume we are and we get treated like that. from the day we are born the world is against us. i had self love and embraced my african culture and heritage. but people in america told me that i had to change who i was to be more accepted. as a child to now i’ve been told to lighten my skin, loosen my hair, treated like i was stupid, and nobody wanted me romantically. it was a role forced upon me by others. we go through a lot and in a way we are strong, but i had to realize that i didn’t have to accept those perceptions of me. i deserve to be loved and uplifted and girly, and so does every other black girl.
@@Chris-rg6nm also, if they're ONLY seeing Black women that way then they have a really skewed perspective of the world around them or they're basing it off the toxic stereotype already perpetuated by white writers who wrote shows they watched growing up and absorbed it into their material
I appreciate that a black woman is narrating this video, that's cool as hell! Where my fellow black girl cinephiles at? ✋🏽
Comfortably Plump RIGHT HERE!!!
Heyy!
Right here! 🙋🏿♀️🙋🏿♀️🙋🏿♀️💁🏿♀️💁🏿♀️💁🏿♀️❤❤🧡🧡💜💜🖤🖤
Checking in sis ¡
Right here
I think the strong black women trope arguably also implies that black women have a higher physical pain tolerance which is still a widely believed (FALSE) idea.
It’s important to note that this trope is made for media targeted for and to attract wider non-Black audiences. TV Shows like Living Single (the original Friends - yes I said it) and Girlfriends subverted this trope and showed varieties of Black women years before mainstream media caught up because it of its target audience.
Exactly. You have one black person in a movie, they have to be larger than life. This trope does exist but most of these were the dumbest examples. Felt like white, cursory apologetic nonsense all through.
Anyone who went through the experiences depicted in these movies have to be stronger than most people. No one wants to watch some feeble protagonist.
The darker she is the stronger movie makes her.. when they want feminine black women they go for 1 that looks like zendaya or or 1 that you have to ask "is she black?" Basically a black woman closer to whiteness than the average black woman (the majority of black women in America dont look like zendaya they look more like lil kim before surgery)
Edit: if I had this much subscribers as likes I'd be happy😂 thankkkkss y'all
Preach
I actually saw something on Facebook book the other day that made me wonder this happened. Someone made a post about the rise of the southern bell. What was said in the post makes me wonder if some of the things attributed to the southern belle didn't bleed over into black culture (after all, colorism did) because the southern belle basically drew her power from the fact that she was white. I wonder if subconsciously American culture hasn't just assumed that the lighter one's skin the more you have to be protected, cottled, etc. It's a stupid concept but the appears to be what happened.
@@shelisadaniel6718 it's not just Americans.. it bleeds over internationally granted jamaicans are protected by their men regardless of color but the lighter the skin the more dainty she's expected to be.. and you're expected to be STRONGer when you're darker..
@@aneshalove226 Yeah I thought about that after I wrote it. It's just a theory for now, one I would obviously need to research more as it just came off the top of my brain. In the Facebook post I watched, it only talked about the southern belle in the American South. I do realize that this is a thing in a lot of countries, usually anyplace that white people wound up colonizing. Do you suppose there's a reason why? (Sarcasm, of course. )
I just hope that when ever things like this are brought up that we don't undermine lighter skins and/or mixed girls black identity as well. The enemy and the wrong is the misuse and terrible real prejudices and purpose the white directors and casting and Hollywood truly are trying to portray which is force us to believe that lighter is still the only beautiful. Just bc we get to "pass" doesn't mean we are ok or do not struggle with our black identity or self-love. Especially people who are of mixed cultured. Do not undermine them or try to strip them of their black identity or assume things of how they identify themselves.
So glad they got a black woman to narrate this
Me too but I hope she narrates more videos and not just on topics related to race. And I hope black women actually wrote this video and were involved with the research
I bet she didn't write it though. This should have been deeper than what it was. And I feel like it just stereotyped nearly every black women on TV as a stereotype. But also, looking at a selection of their other videos, this appears to be a "video bait" channel where they generate tons of content.
her name plz ?
@@KingLeno But they put real effort and time into their videos, you can tell a lot of research goes into them
Because they are talking about a “strong” black women🙄
As a white writer, I’m quite aware of this trope and I’m trying to make sure the largest black character in my book is empowered in a different way. She’s sensible, sure, but sweet and feminine, interested in flowers and botany.
Awwwww that sounds awesome and quite frankly the most realistic depiction I've ever heard. It's like we're black before we're women/ girls. Thank you for acknowledging that. It means alot. 😢❤
What is the name of your book?
Thank you
Femininity is a stereotype
Issa Rae and Michaela Coel did an incredible job on showing their audience how complex and intricate black women actually are. they're not tropes, not one thing, not one emotion. they are human and act depending on their experience, personality and ability.
Yesssss. 👏🏿👏🏿 Thanks for mentioning these two
"Oh honey child, please don't send me away."
Oh god, that was hard to watch.
For real, that’s the top of cringiest stuff I have ever seen.
That was the original 'Imitation of Life' movie. I couldn't finish the movie. It was very unbearable because of that character.
The book was even worse!
@@MissEricaFlowers one of the biggest retroactive cringes I ever had was remembering how when all the moms in my 4th grade class all said "Gone With The Wind" was their favorite book.
I almost stopped watching after I saw that.
So who ready to see The Take explain the white savior trope? 🙋🏽♀️
YES.
This.
Besides the fact that it's just a feel-good trope which does not match the reality of the situation, we also need ideas on how to have characters help their beloved friends with darker skin tones in their times of need, WITHOUT coming across as this trope.
Seth meyers did a fake movie trailer on that
YES
*cough* HOLLYWOOD *cough* It was such a visually beautiful TV show but the 'white saviour' aspect was jarring me.
Percival917 I think I’ve seen some movies that could have been about the white savior trope, but I think they sort of manage to do something different and come across as less problematic. There was the Disney Channel movie called got a kick it up which is about a white teacher who starts working at a mostly Latino high school, and starts coaching the dance team which other schools would call the cheerleading team. And I feel like they somewhat avoid many of the white savior troves by portraying the teacher as having baggage from her past and by giving the students more autonomy and showing them doing stuff on their own when they feel unsupported by the teacher. Oh, and she doesn’t just decide to be the coach. She only becomes the coach because the students know she has a background in dance and they ask her to be the coach. So I think that’s one way to avoid the white savior Trove. Although it is subjective. And then I remember seeing the movie Australia starring Nicole Kidman and Hugh Jackman. Nicole Kidman’s character tries to literally save someone, specifically a half aboriginal/half white younger boy who is in danger of being taken away from his family. But that ultimately does not work out. I think this shows how the issues that aboriginal Australians phase is a huge issue, and it can’t be solved by a single white person who wants to do the right thing. Another movie might have showed her character rescuing the young boy from his fate and present it as a feel good sort of being wild glossing over the fact that the issue is more severe than just one person being put in danger of being removed from their family.
“One of the greatest regrets in life is being what others would want you to be, rather than being yourself.”
Colorism is also at play in these roles, the strong black women tends to be darker skinned
This is EXACTLY why I'm writing books with various Black girl leads. The gist of this video is that Black women are individuals and women like any other. We need variety in media because there is no singular way to represent us, and media shapes people's views of us. There are strong Black women. There are weak Black women. There are girly Black women, ditzy, clever, naive, goofy, shy, sexual, chaste, and *all kinds* of Black women. We are diverse women with different personalities and interests and deserve the same kind of judgement of individuality rather than group that white women are afforded.
Exactly
We need this!
Love this and stand by this! I will be in line to buy your books!
I’m with you on this! Rooting for this!
Yes thank you. I love seeing black artists, authors, animators etc who break the stereotype
As a black woman, I got emotional about 1 min into this. People act like black women can burn the candle at both ends for decades and we'll be fine. We're not.
We really aren’t
The traits are unattractive and masculine...
I'm a semi-brown South Asian girl and I cried my eyes out at this. I hope everyone facing bad behavior because of their color get more respect and the attention they deserve. ❤
I'm a disability activist and I always find it interesting the different parallels one can observe when looking at the plights of different minority groups. The strong black women trope is similar to the supercrip trope in the disability/impairment/chronic illness community, and it's similar to the smart asian stereotypes - it paints all three as someone to aspire to be, and by doing that, it becomes acceptable for society to punish those not working hard enough to achieve that nearly impossible standard. And that standard is reinforced everytime we praise disabled people online, sharing videos of them being able to graduate college while ignoring the greater problem of fixing the incredibly ableist educational system that made it so damn hard to achieve that. And it's reinforced every time we publically praise a woman of color who has to suppress aspects of her identity while working far more than her white counterparts to get where she is, while we ignore the problem of fixing obstacles that made it so damn hard to get there. And it's reinforced every time we expect an entire race to be more intelligent than their white counterparts, blaming them when they fail to live up to it, and dismissing their intelligence they worked so hard to achieve as nothing more than an aspect ingrained into the DNA of that race. MINORITY GROUPS DON'T WANT YOUR PRAISE. WE WANT YOU TO FIGHT SO WE DON'T HAVE TO WORK SO DAMN HARD TO ACHIEVE THAT PRAISE.
Co-sign every word. Dismantling the systems that oppress should always be emphasised in advocating for change regardless of the inequality in focus.
PREACH GIRL! PREACH!👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
"You act white" I am so over these stereotypes and when I don't follow them that's what they say 😑😑
Riigghhttttt, or being called slow because you do not understand "black lingo" generally used in poorer and/or black majority communities.
Or being made fun of for going to a private school, they only stop when they ask you to buy something for them. Like ewwwwwwww.
I've gotten it before, and it never offended me once. I knew what they really meant by it.
There's not enough balance to counteract this "Strong Black Woman" and "Social Justice Warrior" representation. We need more variety in stories. I want to see black women playing the parts of house wives, career women, manic pixie dream girls, damsel's in distress, quarky geniuses. I'm tired of seeing black women being masculinized and portrayed as these independent women that don't need men, women that have to protect men, have to take care of everyone, embittered, women that don't need support, women that don't need validation, etc. This imbalance in representation is toxic. We're NOT SUPERWOMEN. The average black woman can't match men in strength, agility, and speed. We're women just like any other non-black woman. I'm human first, a woman second, and that other stuff later. Also, I'm so tired of seeing black women being treated like an equal physical threat to men. Further, people are less likely to help us because of this "Strong Black Woman" crap. Apparently, we can handle it. Look at rates at which we're being physically abused and killed. Obviously, we're not super human. Obviously, we can't take it. Resilient, sure. Magic, no.
I will say, there are some positive changes in the media that I appreciate, but again, it's not balanced.
This is exactly why we need more of our own to tell our stories.
I agree with everything you said ! The only thing is, do you want to be as much objectified as white woman ? People assume that they're weak and dumb with no character
They can sexually assault them easily because they're seen as weak. We should stop making tropes because it puts everyone in cases, and start writing women as human with flaws and qualities, sensitivity and strength.
But maybe people would love to have what I consider as a burden
Hey there’s nothing wrong with being equal to men ?? But i get what you mean
@@irene5298 There's something wrong with it when BW aren't deemed worthy of protection because of some notion that we're these super human beings that can go through anything. BW are not born with exceptional strength, we live in a society that forces us to be strong.
I'm glad you showed Bonnie from The Vampire Diaries. That girl would go missing (literally missing) multiple times, and sometimes for months, and her "best friends" wouldn't think twice until they needed her to help them with their own problems.
@Weeby&Geeky Yep. That "team" worked really well saving everyone BUT Bonnie. And what happened to Enzo was honestly insult to injury. Literally showing how strong Bonnie was to stop the hellfire at the cost of her lover and then having to go through life alone.
All that strength and throughout the series she had loss after loss (which she handled better than the MC) and suffered major episodes of depression and had very low self-esteem. But she pulled through and received little more than a pat on the back from her "friends".
@Weeby&Geeky I shipped Bamon too. Julie Plec is a racist though. We were all fooling ourselves to believe she would have ever put her dream boy with a black woman.
Weeby&Geeky I LOVED Bonnie and Enzo as a couple. They were arguably the healthiest couple on that show. I hated Bonnie with Jeremy. He was immature, cheated on her with a ghost, and basically gave up on her when she was stuck in the prison world with a murderer, even though she brought Jeremy back to life. TWICE. AND sacrificed herself the second time. Like, honestly, I couldn’t stand that boy. I couldn’t get into Bonnie and Damon because they were never meant to be together on the show. Damon was always going to be with Elena. ENZO on the other hand was PERFECTION when he and Bonnie got together. Before that NEITHER of them had a person in their corner. They were both very loyal to one another and at the drop of a hat they were willing to do what it took to protect the other. At the end of the day, every one of Bonnie’s friends had someone they prioritized OVER her (Damon was one of the only ones who did something selfless and decent by not hurting her to get Elena back), though she often put her life in jeopardy for them, and usually at the cost of her loved ones, her safety, and her emotional health.
They did Bonnie so fucking dirty, that shit still boils my fucking blood
AvgJane19 girl I’m about to write a thesis on this shit. I just CANNOT cope with that ending for my girl.
This is a very interesting video. As someone who grew up in a mainly white country, my introduction to black people were American films. I always thought it was so weird that black women all seemed to have the same personality. I remember looking at actresses that were so pretty and feminine, who I would expect to be the leading actress but were never given a softer side, always angry, always snarky, never weak, always acting like the queen mom not the daydreamer princess. The same happened with Latinas of course who were always fiery and passionate which made most people expect the same from me, me being half Colombian in a country that though all Colombians should be like a Shakira videoclip, while I was an introverted bookworm. I thank the internet for opening my eyes to other representations. Specifically English and French productions, either TV or films. It's there where I got to see people of other races playing diverse roles, were they were everyday people, either nerdy, stupid, mean, kind, fashionable etc. Just like white actors. It's there were I suddenly realised that something wasn't clicking with me all these years in American films. I always felt pressure to portray my Latin side as people expected me to which makes me realize that it must be so, so, so much more overwhelming and stressful for black women...
Do you mind referencing those films to me plz? I'm a young black girl and I'm tired of not seeing good representation of black girls in American media. It's super annoying and sends the message that all of us act like that when that's simply not true. The library is my haven and I've never gotten into a physical fight in my life. I'm usual that kid in the corner at parties waiting for my friends to be done so we can go. (I don't go to parties that was just an example).
@@squidwardtentacles7144 Chewing gum, insecure, some girls,
Amazing video! We really need more diversity of black women in movies 👌🏾
I find this trope absolutely disgusting it shows black women as inhuman strong men who can take on everyone’s problems. Black women, just like everybody else, are allowed to be tired and take mental and physical breaks. Doing it all, ALL THE DAMN TIME runs you ragged and should not be praised. I’m tired of seeing black women fighting and scratching just to get by, let us be human.
Exactly, you've really hit the nail on the head here!🔨👏🏽Let Black Women be vulnerable and flawed, but hopeful in the face of adversity, like Precious or Celie from "The Colour Purple". Nobody has all the answers, and it makes them more human and relatable. 💖
As a white woman, I always feel incredibly inspired by black women characters, or strong women in general. But this video made me see how these archetypes can also be sadly toxic. I will still forever be inspired, but will think twice before consuming narratives like this with a simple mind.
@@Chris-rg6nm I think when it was created it was used to showcase an aspect if black women that was never showcased or appreciated but as it was used by other people, the different dimensions of the trope (like to toll having to uphold this persona can take) were ignored and made the women one dimensional rather than an aspect of a whole person
I don't see this characters masculine, i just see one type of women, and that is very wrong, i agree with you on what you said, it has to give black women the same variety of characters as they do with white women
For God's sake let us be human!
Two: medical issues
I can attest to black women getting inferior care due to these stereotypes in both of my pregnancies I had significant issues. With my first son I expressed concerns about breastfeeding (my son literally ripped the flesh off of my nipple) I was told "black women have tougher skin I've never had an issue with a black woman feeding" I was then encouraged to continue feeding and expressing despite bright blood red bottles.
Finally another lactation consultant had my son checked for a tongue tie. My second pregnancy was much worse I had sever hip pain that was continually dismissed it turned out my son's skull was against my hip bone and he got stuck during my C section and would up with an indent in his skull. He also ended up with a host of other issues but is doing well now.
When he was in NICU i was still recovering from my csection, haemolysis, and blood transfusions; rather than be wheeled to go see my baby I had to walk to the children's Hospital with no assistance from nursing staff to feed him at all hours day and night. On my walks I could see other women being wheeled over but when I asked I was told they were too busy and I'd have to go myself.
❤️
this is disgusting... id be lying if I said I was surprised. I have endometriosis, a condition that I've complained of symptoms for since my periods started at age 10 yet I was told the all consuming paid is normal. the ovulation pain is normal, the inability to move for days is normal, throwing up for the entirety of my period is normal. the accompanying other issues are normal and I would be fine. now, as a 26 year old, nearly 27 is when a black female doctor has finally started taking me seriously and has prescribed me medication to help with the pain. Another instance: I complained of severe knee pain to my doctor that started suddenly and without my hurting myself. went to the doctors 3 times over the course of 3 months and was told nothing was there and I should take ibuprofen and I'll be fine (he did not even check). finally saw my new black female Doctor, she made me lie down and checked the movement of my knee and she could see the swelling I had said was there and after an xray - I was told my right knee had become badly inflamed due to a repetitive strain injury. my work place has yet to take my pain seriously though. one step at a time right. I'm sorry you had to endure that, stay strong ♡
I'm so sorry you had to go through this! I pray for all black women that this narrative changes, and quickly! Our lives literally depend on it
I had a similar circumstances that led to my son being disabled.
That's just awful!
We need more stories about us. The darker-skinned black woman.
I’m light skinned but I still face the same stigma’s. We may look different to each other, but the same to others. But I will never discredit what you may face on a day to day.
@@SwisherGutsLLC i mean you did discredit by saying "i face the same stigmas". which you absolutely don't, liar
@@korykent5645 Women on either side of the black spectrum face issues that may not be qualitatively the same but affect them personally. She doesn't disregard dark-skinned women's issues by mentioning her own.
The dark skinned woman is strong enough to overcome all her problems alone and the light skinned black woman has no problems. Back men pass up on dark skinned women, and dark skinned women drag light skinned women and basically say they're not black.
It's not an exact science but there's plenty of shit to go around.
My son almost died during child birth, because the doctor thought I wasn’t trying hard enough to push. Somehow after 22hrs of labor, the thought that I might have been exhausted or that the baby’s head was too big was never considered. The black nurses pleaded with him and looked on in horror as he delayed my C-section until the last minute. Thank GOD my son was ok...just had a few cuts from the forceps the doctor used to try and force him out.
Neal Brennan said this on his podcast recently: "White women want to be princesses, black woman want to be queens."
I think it goes along the idea that "she deserves a world that doesn't require her to be so strong all the time." Princesses get to be protected, carefree, and feminine; while queens have to be protective, responsible, and assertive.
I never thought of that, it kind of reminds me of how Tiana is portrayed, even though she is a Disney princess she actually has the qualities that are attributed with being a queen.
@@Melcatsite And she struggles the entire time. Theme song is "Almost There". Hate that f'in movie.
@@Melcatsite I have such a huge love/hate (well more of disappointment than "hate") relationship with this film. I adore Tiana and certain side characters that help drive the story, but this film still leaves me confused and conflicted all at once. It also doesn't help that she is the only Black woman/princess in the Disney line-up, and yet they still keep on churning out more white princesses/main leads with each new movie that they make (Moana and Coco being the exceptions/Big Hero 6 also counts considering the main cast has POC in the main roles). I still care deeply for this film, but I will not deny my critical side and act as if this movie has no problems. :/
Don't black women call themselves queens. Isn't that what they want?
@@majeedmamah7457 It's an effort to reclaim black women's experience as never being considered as worthy of protection. Black women have come to collectively identify with being "strong" and "independent" because they have no choice but to be.
I really cannot stand the strong black women stereotype. This affects black women in the worst way. I can’t tell you how many times people tried to use me like a mule and treated me like garbage because I’m suppose to be a “ strong black woman “ and should be able to take it. A lot of men also expect you to take on traditional roles as well as take on the role of a man like your superwoman. You also are called angry, aggressive, ghetto, masculine, etc for trying to express yourself. This also affects us in school and the work place as well not just relationships. This is how the WORLD perceives us. We need to see more positive representation of FEMININE BEAUTIFUL BLACK WOMEN who are HUMAN BEINGS WITH FEELINGS and aren’t expected to carry the world on their shoulders like a MULE.
Keep crying
worse is when Black women do this to each other
Rev. Robin Kay Monk Self yup!!!!
@g7dmother •}:{• you'd enjoy being called "emotional" and "overreacting", and then "hysterical" if you dare to get angry because nobody takes you seriously or even listens to what you are saying.
@@papyrusted Begone troll! If you don't like us why are you on this video?
My mom has been in depression for YEARS (I mean more than 20 years) BECAUSE she was taught to suck it up, cope with it simply and take everything to care for children and responsibility. Where's the man there ?
Yes, and at the risk of creating another stereotype I want to see more soft, dainty, elegant, black women on screen like Brandy in Cinderella
To the non black women arguing with black women about how they're portrayed in the media.....STOP and LISTEN! This is the problem! When ever black women come forward and say our perspective on our experiences here comes someone who has no idea what it's like to be us telling us what they THINK! We are well aware of our stories, how we are depicted and how it makes US feel! How can you possibly come here and argue with us about that? If we say the Strong Black Woman trope lessens our femininity then guess what it's true! If we say there is a lack of diverse depiction of black women in the media because of this trope then guess what it's true. Stop telling us that we're wrong for feeling this way or seeing things this way because you have no idea what it's like to be us. The audacity, entitlement, arrogance, and amount of privilege it takes to step to someone who experiences you will never understand, and tell them that THEY are wrong for their views about this is abusive! This is exactly why things are the way they are. Did the video not highlight for you why this trope is problematic? Where you not paying attention? You're gaslighting us and people wonder why we get angry. Unbelievable!
You are clearly not familiar with this channel to know that the voice analyzing in this video ISN'T the two portrayed in the intro. I have no idea what race this voice belongs to but it's likely that it is a black woman because the voice doesn't belong to either of the two standard narrators. Next, your passion is NOT misplaced, but you have no enemies here. Take a breath. No one is arguing with you and your opinions are valid. Okay? Okay. Lastly, I think some of the points in this video are very insightful. Hopefully you can see what I'm talking about from a logical perspective.
@@jazthespaz837 i don't think Tiffany was speaking against the video at all. just to comments of white people who are, yet again, brushing off the discussions black people bring to the table
@@Evarya If that is that case, then I apologize to the original commenter. I jumped the gun.
Ikr? How dare people with the wrong skin color express themselves!
IAmAgainst youre literally such a loser lol you tried
I went into this video with a healthy amount of skepticism, thinking you guys wouldn't have the range to examine the real damage that this trope has done. But you surprised me by giving a voice to someone that can speak to this topic better than the usual people at The Take can. I really appreciate that. Too many black women have internalized this trope and see themselves as masculinized superheroes, especially dark skinned black women. But at the end of the day, black women are just women. And that's not an insult.
Ikr me too 😔 my hear was beating fast when i saw the video i thought they were gonna praise these stereotypes and not go into depth about it but I was so happily wrong they tackled the situation better than I could imagine 💖
And that is the reason why I love the show Insecure.... the main character doesn’t have any of those stereotypes. Just a normal awkward black girl who is three dimensional that makes mistakes and is afraid of confrontation but can be funny and cry instead of being strong willed. I can just relate to that more.
Girl Issa messy as hell! 🤣🤣🤣🤣I love Insecure. ❤️
Black women are the most underestimated, misunderstood women. Their expectations are held up so high that to meet them would be impossible. If we, as a collective whole, could understand that they are human just doing the best they can and give them a little compassion and a safe place, maybe we can allow these women heal and be at peace. It’s ok to not be strong all time, it’s ok not to take care of everyone all the time, it’s ok to put you first.
what about the much more frequently done “sassy black woman” trope ......
@Nia M Looking up on wikipedia, it classified "sassy" under the sapphire category. I'm guessing the sassy black woman is downplayed version of the angry black woman (Disney channel's ones comes to my mind).
They mention this in their sidekick/best friend video I believe.
Would love to see an analysis of this trope by The Take
Doesn't that tie into the sapphire category too? Correct me if I'm wrong
Be honest only blk women can play that role
The reality is that these stereotypes are also perpetuated by real people in our lives, not just in the media. Parents, teachers, peers etc. We are always expected to be super strong and nurturing it's instilled in us since childhood. An Indian male friend told me that I am behaving like a "western" woman when I mentioned that I have no desire to get married or have children. I'm from South Africa and have lived/worked in a few other countries. The problem with being an African black woman is that you are not expected to be assertive, you are mammy. When you do speak up for yourself, eloquently and assertively, they can't understand how you think that you are an EQUAL! They either gaslight you or call you crazy behind your back. This was a good video!
YES! some people, when you act like their equal be like, " HOW DARE YOU! 😡"
😂
My manager (along w/ a slew of teachers) love to throw that “girlfriend” at the end of the sentence to address me like....I’m not even sassy like that.
I don’t even use the term “girlfriend”! Wtf?
awkwardletter95 😂😂😂 I’m laughing at this because you bring up a great point. I’m Latina and was born and raised in the Chicago inner city so I speak with a certain dialect (didn’t notice it until I lived in Southern California for 4 years). My former roommate who was a lily blonde white girl from the suburbs would speak normally with everyone else but would start her sentences with “Girl,...” when she would talk to me. I was like🤔
Haha. I hear the same stuff etveb as a light skinned Indian girl. I guess anyone "non Caucasian" is thought of as natural mommy.
I'm sorry you get gaslit left and right. That can get really exhausting. At the end of the day, your choices are valid--it's your life! Let ignorant bigots do and say whatever they want--they're not worth your energy or thoughts.
I decided to start seeing a therapist years ago. My therapist is an amazing woman and has helped me through a lot. When I was going through a lot in my life and obviously severely depressed, she said to me "Don't be sad, you're a STRONG BLACK WOMAN." I will never forget how I felt when she said that. It was like I was expected to have this strength that made me immune from being depressed and suicidal. I loathe this stereotype.
a good example of how feminism must be interesctional. what's empowering to some women is a tired stereotype to others
"We deserve a world that doesn't require her to be so strong all the time" A WORD.
I would argue that this can be very toxic. Our media are showing black woman (especially drak skinned) as independent and very masculine. White society tried to take away black woman's femininity since slavery times. The diversity of the characters played by black woman is very needed right now.
Agreed! Its even toxic for masculine behavior if that's considered masculinity
It was honestly more white women policing black women’s femininity once they realized their men were attracted to us. That’s why they had laws to cover black women’s afros.
J Doree you are absolutely right - and we still enforce those policies today
We do need more diversity. I hope the 'strong, black woman' also gets the rewrite she deserves and is allowed to actually benefit from these traits. As a dark-skinned girl who has a more masculine aura and is fiercely independent I am often attacked for not muling (usually by people who have/ would never do anything similar for me) choosing to use my traits in a more self serving manner. I also feel attacked for celebrating my more feminine side.
The strong black woman trope is also what makes society look at little black girls as grown women , we are expected to be wiser, more mature. As a result of that we are not protected. We’re given a very short amount of time to be children.
This basically tyler Perry movies in a nutshell
Ugh I'll never watch one of his movies ever again 🤮
Growing up as a dark skinned Nigerian girl in America, I always felt that I was treated as masculine and unattractive, unlike how my white female contemporaries were treated. I realize this trope feeds into how I was treated. I grew up in an era where the "pretty" black girls were those like Megan Good, Beyonce or Halle Berry, those who had lighter skin than I did.
There are drawbacks and perk side in it. Being treated as an unattractive woman all the time is bad, but it allow men to look at you with another perspective, and to know you better before try other things. Being looked upon as a sexy and fragile body all the time sucks.
Graziela Almeida yes but
there’s a difference between assumptions having something “suck” and being marginalized, oppressed and traumatized. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to erase the hardships on either side, but we can’t act like they’re exactly the same. The long-standing effects are NOT the same.
@@justjackiie Preach!
I'm what you would consider as brown or light skin, and I always make it a point to uplift my darker skin sisters whenever I can. I lowkey wish I was dark skin though. You guys have the prettiest skin and features.
@soul sessions tv Bdhrh I believe it's a newer term but its existence has been w us since the 60s show Julia..w Dianne Carroll...the first tv show w a bw as a lead that was a professional ( RN). Shes safe brown...a beautiful woman and she landed on the 80s nighttime soap Dynasty...if she were darker neither of these roles would have been given to her. She's safe brown...
As a black woman, I've always hated this damn trope.
Then what you want black women to be portrayed as? If each character leads to a stereotype, then we might as well not have black women in film.
@@khalmasonart stfu and stop gaslighting
@@saeon4427 no, he has a valid point. There is a Strong black woman stereotype but this video doesn't do much to explain it. If you listed all the adjectives the video gives for this trope, its EVERY adjective. What do Precious and Kerry Washington on scandal have in common? What do Ola Mae (Ghost) and Ms. Cellie have in common? What do Tina Turner and the women from Hidden figures have in common? And don't say they had to endure racism, because that's all black people. And don't say they had to deal with sexism, that's all women.
@@KingLeno why do we have to endure something we didn't create?
@@khalmasonart Variety isn't that hard to reach. We want to also have nerdy girls, the girl next door, the girl in the corner in solitude, the girl who suffers because of mental struggles.
Black women are strong, we know this. We've been strong and that has been shown. But that's not all we are. That's not all black people in general are. We want normal characters that don't have to be heroes or complete suffering outcasts to be noticed. Give us normal roles with normal yet important meanings like others, because we aren't bullet proof. We crack, and we aren't always strong.
We want to be treated like people, given the chance and opportunity to be weak because we do break down. We aren't always strong black soldiers.
I just wanna say as a black european girl. That is learning english through the American culture. I think that you do a great work to make this video. I'd learn plenty things about the image and stereotypes that we had as black women in our society "because" of pop culture. And I think understanding those things help me in "my journey" of self love/image. I don't watch a lot of American shows, but I do have a global image of it. And sometimes I suffer due to those stereotypes as probably the most of us (even the messages in those shows don't always mean to convey misconception).
SO a big thanks The Take from a Belgian new subscriber ^^
And last but not least the (ennoying) "sorry for bad english folks" ! XD
PS: I know that I still make faults in my phrasing but I hope that the people whose reading my comment understood me. Have a nice day y'all and HAPPY NEW YEAR in advance.
This video summed almost eveything that is happening with us black girls. The one that really gets me is the angry black woman/sapphire thing. Every time I go to the store with my mom and something goes wrong at the checkout, my mom likes to check them when they're wrong in a respectful manor (as she should). But whenever she raises her voice a little bit, I catch myself subconsciously cringing bc I instantly know that she is going to be seen as the aggressive black woman by ppl watching. This makes me so mad bc even when we are rightfully angry or upset, we also have to be forced to suppress those emotions in fear of fitting a stupid stereotype. I'm a quiet person but when I get mad in public, I usually force myself to suppress that anger so I don't get stares or "why are you being aggressive?" question. It's a real struggle and it needs to change.
There is also colorism but some aren't ready for that convo...
Maybe they could start by making a movie featuring a black woman that's not just about "being a black woman"
Bingo!
Good start.
Exactly exactly. Which just want a good old normal film or show with a black women as a lead or supporting character is that too much to as for? No 'black struggle/gang/dysfunction' films
The Photograph did this well.
That’s what I loved about the TV shows Scandal and Insecure.
That part about how the worth of black women is often ascribed to our behavioral characteristics and not an innate respect of human value...i felt that. Didn't really think about it in that way particularly and I'm grateful to Ms Harris Perry for putting it into words. I definitely feel like once I am suddenly not agreeable or assert myself or express a grievance, I'm often ostracized or met with indignation or suddenly demonized even. It's hard to be a black woman. It's hard to have, navigate and express emotions as a black woman. We should be seen as intrinsically of value.
Agreed!!
I love how you expressed this. Making a note of this for myself, if you don't mind. :)
@@MsZephyra Go for it! Glad I could help
One of the biggest reasons why black women are portrayed as always "strong" is because that is what most black men and white people respect about black women, and since they influence media more than we do, we always get stuck with these portrayals. We need more black women changing the narrative.
I do appreciate the strong black women roles but they make us seem so superhuman that we never get to be portrayed as soft, and feminine. I really want this superhuman black female stereotype to be put to rest for a little bit because that inadvertently emasculates the men and makes some men not want a black woman because they already feel inferior based on how we are represented.
The minute Miranda Bailey (Grey’s anatomy) stopped taking care of everyone else and putting all her focus on the other characters and got her own personality and flaws and troubles people instantly started hating on her. I definitely think there’s a deeper meaning than that because the fans are more than happy to accept all the other women’s flaws
No shade, didn’t know there was a black woman on the “the take” staff til this video. But it’s good though.
Ryan Stewart then it is so! 💀 I heard her voice and was like hold on...
I was about to say the same exact thing. Not sure how to feel about it tbh
Ditto, I'm glad that they got a woman of colour to narrate this video, since Susannah and Debra, the women mostly behind this channel, are white, and she might understand the topic a little bit more, plus she helps to disprove stereotypes commonly associated with this archetype. 👩🏾💙
@@trinaq she has narrated other videos
I am hoping too that she doesn't just narrative videos that take on POC discussions/portrayals/films-- I would love to hear more of her! Let her do videos that aren't just about race
This was so Bonnie in Vampire Diaries
I am a BW that is strong and multilayered. There are various types of strength, i.e quiet, bold etc. I have no qualms about being a woman with strength and dynamism. This doesn't mean that I'm not a human. It's nothing wrong with being strong. I think the biggest problem with being a strong BW is allowing BM and non Blacks to use BW's strength against themselves and using BW's strength for their self serving purposes. For instance, many BM NEED a strong BW when they often want to divest themselves of mature responsibilities and to cover their feelings of inadequacy or cowardice especially concerning protection of BW. As this video reveals, Non Blacks NEED strong BW so that they can cover up their racial bias or their lack of will to remedy racial bias/sexism towards BW. BW should be free to be what we need to be in our interpersonal relationships and we need a make over and get control as it relates to our public image and on screen.
The thing is black women especially my dark-skinned sisters have internalised these limiting stereotypes as we have been placed in positions because( ik I'm gonna be attacked but so be it that) our men simply don't protect us like we do and are willing to berate us with colouristic remarks - what other races of men subject their women with such treatment, so we adopting the strong blk women to counter this. We are perceived as masculine by accepting this stereotype through acting as the provider.
PREACH
Exactly. What is called in popular culture “femininity” was cultivated over generations of women and girls being protected and provided for.
@@SuaNam08 I couldn't have said it better myself.
Protect you...how? From what? No women in my family have been assaulted or even disrespected on any level. Not on my watch. I’m 6’ 2”, 220 for a reason. I protect & provide for my family. My wife is the happiest, most chill woman on the planet. It doesn’t hurt that she’s beautiful & carries herself as a lady. She had a protective father in her life so she knows the natural order. I come from good stock myself; my mother & father, grandparents, etc instilled strong values & principles. I’m tired of this bullshit narrative. Most of the brothers in my circle are hard working family men..& definitely not punks!! Maybe y’all looking in the wrong places...
I think this and also that we HAD to be the head of households as men went to wars, took more submissive roles in relationships, and then were disproportionately placed in jail or simply abandoned us. We have to constantly be strong for ourselves and our families because no one. And I mean no one is going to help us. Not even our doctors 😓
Often times people see the strong black women as superhuman that they can endure all but we must remember that she is human and she is flawed like everyone she has weakness. She deserves to be taken care of as well.
I live half way around the world, and always figured all black american women were "the strong black woman". I thought them superior to white women, based on their seaming resilience. But it's true that when you are portrayed a certain way, you lose (in a sense) the option to be yourself- if the self you are doesn't match the stereotype.
A lot of Black females have that problem with themselves. They feel they are “weird” because they don’t fit the stereotype that the world projects on us.
Whenever you don't fit the stereotypes you apparently don't act black😒 There are shy and feminine black woman too.
The strong black woman is often depicted as practically a-sexual or dating the single, left over man that no one else is attracted to. One example is Abbie Mills of Sleepy Hollow. She is an attractive woman, yet no man except for her ex seemed to be attracted to her, nor is she attracted to any one. Contrast that with Ichabod Crane, who seemed to attract just about every woman that he came across. Another example is Bonnie Bennett who had only 2 relationships over the multiple seasons of the show. The first relationship was with her friend's little brother and the second was with a man who had been rejected that same friend's boyfriend's mother. Every other guy that she was attracted to was used her, tricked her or was murdered.
Ugh, you triggered me with that Sleepy Hollow thing. That whole show was the trope on display. Ichabod running after his wife, the vulnerable and sweet damsel in distress while the black female sidekick was just masculinized to death. I’m sure the writers would have been tired at some point of that circus and have them hook up but the original set up was so comically one-dimensional, I’m not surprised it got canceled.
See other examples of this: Lt. Uhura (Star Trek) and Lisa Turtle (Saved By The Bell).
I rarely use this word, but, PREACH! As someone who watched both shows, it's nice to see others who understand.
And you forgot the disgusting writer who actually tried to pair Bonnie up with the son of the man her biological mother married and practically raised after she ghosted on Bonnie.
Rewatch the first season. Tom Mison(Ichabod Crane) during an interview stated "he's clearly in love with her" when asked about Ichabod and Abbie, so he portrayed it that way. Also, Abbie Mills was originally written for a white woman to play, which would explain why there's a budding romance during the first season. I don't doubt the showrunners script sabotage/ship baiting in later seasons were purely motivated by race.
@@ebonspace lisa turtle was actually a pretty groundbreaking character. Before her, it was pretty unusual to see the pretty popular fashionista girl being black. And they made it clear she was one of the most sought after girl in school
The CZcamsr Chrissie is largely responsible for bringing this to light let’s all support her channel. They put dark skinned black women in these roles more than anything and it puts us in harms way while hurting our image. I’m glad black women are waking up to the truth.
Diedre Banks I was just thinking about sending this video to her!
No
Chrissy is homophobic and transphobic
Chrissie is amazing
YUP!!!
I hate this trope bc if u don’t act like this then ur told that you “act white”. Like we’re not all super sassy and loud (which there’s nothing wrong w that) but it’s just so annoying