I love her. She's so down-to-earth and realistic; Her scope is so holistic and her conclusions are so balanced. Well beyond her time, her books will be referenced in the far future when most books and their authors that we know today are long forgotten.
An EX- Vegan received Death and Rape threats ----" The most frequent theme of the many death threats I received was that my family members and my companion animals should be killed in front of me in the way that factory farmed animals are killed. There were also threats of sexual violence made against me, which is a common silencing tactic used against women. It was also disturbing to see that not one prominent vegan blogger (many of whom I had considered friends) came out to stand against this and call for a reasonable, respectful dialogue." Women need the freedom and space to communicate to each other that a vegan diet may not be adequate for their health, fertility, and health and IQ of their future children. This Vegan culture of ridiculing, threatening, accusing of mental problems, shaming/blaming those ex vegans who are brave enough to tell the truth and come out in public that the vegan diet made them ill, is WRONG. How many more women are just keeping quiet with illness/infertility or quietly eating animal products? We don't need and shouldn't tolerate these petty, bullying facist vegan tactics, what we Need and should encourage is an open, honest, respectful exchange of truthful information. Many vegan commenters here wish to discredit ex vegan women " she is mad, fucking retarded, she's mental, she's got no proof, she's got no tests, she's not a doctor, she's not a scientist" Well, you just look like little, petty, small minded, censoring bullies. You cannot silence these women and they are spoiling your pretty fiction of the perfect, " Healthy? vegan Diet". letthemeatmeat.com/post/3141542244/interview-with-an-ex-vegan-tasha
Early man ate meat. You want to be natural - eat meat, roots and berries. Vegetarianism is a nice idea and factory farming is bad....but everything she says is true.
the problem of meat is that it's energeticaly least profient type of food, you can get. In other words, planet would be exhausted of energy, water, and resources, like 10x more, than when you eat little-to-no meat. This is, why it's better to not go paleo, rather save energy, waste, and resources for something else. As vegetarian, you can live heathly life for sure. And also, when you eat only small portions of meat, lets say one fish a week. That is prooven by long term studies, that vegetarians have less problems, than "regulary" eating people. So, for sure, we should not eat "meat, roots and berries". That would destroy the planet. It is madness. Also, you cannot produce so much "heathly" meat, as they were it , basically from wild animals. There are acumulating toxins, heavy metals and pesticides and antibiotics in animals, more than in plants. It would be utopia, to feed 8 bilion people of wild animals, or extra heathly meat (which is harder to produce). Completly madness. You would need only 10% of the fertile grounds, to feed them from vegetation. This is, why we need to find way to vegetarianism, the more population there will be, the more important it will be.
Laurel Long-- ex animal rights activist, on meeting Lierre and the effect of The Vegetarian Myth on her; "I was experiencing major depression that did not improve no matter what I did. I met Lierre Keith at a small feminist gathering on the East coast several years ago. She encouraged me to eat meat, assuring me I would feel better. Since I had nothing else to lose, I got up all my courage and tried it. As if by magic, I felt better than I had in well over a decade. The change was absolutely incredible, and a few months after eating meat again, I went back to school full time. That was a year and a half ago. I recently interviewed an ex-vegan who started eating meat again after reading The Vegetarian Myth. Why is that book so effective? Well, I started eating meat prior to actually reading Keith’s book. However, the book is effective because the analysis of agriculture just plain makes sense. Humans were never designed to eat grains and, indeed, it is grain consumption that is destroying the landbase! If the book wasn’t powerful, vegans wouldn’t be making a huge fuss over it. Why did you leave veganism? I never thought I would stop being vegan, much less eat meat. However, I was experiencing major depression that did not improve no matter what I did. Someone I deeply cared about refused to talk to me anymore because of how negative I was. I couldn’t even go to school or hold down a job. I became more and more depressed and had to drop out of college. After this, I was never able to fully get back into the AR community again, no matter how much I tried, because I simply did not have the stamina. Do you think veganism was connected to your depression? Absolutely. For the first several months I was vegan, I really did feel good. However, I soon became severely depressed. When I started eating meat, the depression vanished." letthemeatmeat.com/post/448973503/interview-with-an-ex-vegan-laurel-long
She hit the mark when she said, "these people who eat their traditional diets." Here is the thing, and this has been a hot topic on TED before, but people do evolve to consume what is available to them naturally. What we eat today is not as natural as we wish it were, vegan or animal based, we have altered our food supply completely. Nothing is as it once was, and it is unfortunate. Realistically, our ancestors ate what was easiest for them to find, be it through hunting or foraging. In tropical climates, that might include a lot of fruit. In colder climates, that might include a lot of animal flesh and root vegdtables. I wish people would just be more realistic. No one diet is perfect for everyone, so test things out for yourself, and see what leaves you feeling the best. If you are concerned the choices you make are not 100% healthy, that you may have depleted your body of some nutrient, consult a physician for testing. It isn't as difficult a task as so many try to make it out to be.
People may evolve to eat what is available to them, but only to the point of where they are successful enough for survival. Evolution doesn't give a crap if you die of cancer or heart disease in your 40's, it only cares if you can live long enough to have children. That is why the Inuit who have lived isolated up north for over 10,000 years have the highest rates of heart disease of any population due to their high fat diets. Modern humans and our ancestors have spent the majority of our history eating fruits, vegetables, and starches, and every human being on earth is most healthy on a vegan diet.
I do not disagree with that, and in fact would have agreed with this statement had I read it elsewhere. However, my personal statement was geared more toward this guest speaker and her claim that indigenous peoples are so much healthier eating their native foods. People evolve, adjust, and frankly eat to survive. Indigenous peoples ate what was available to them, so they were as healthy as they could be for that area. Frankly, I don't buy into the belief that one diet fits everyone, but that each person needs to eat according to what leaves them feeling healthiest. I prefer a plant based diet with fish once in a while, no eggs, no dairy. That's me, but that would not work for even my own siblings.
habadashery2009 "That is why the Inuit who have lived isolated up north for over 10,000 years have the highest rates of heart disease of any population due to their high fat diets." That is simply false as you use modern fast food Inuit data. Inuits living on there traditional 90%-99% meat/fish diet didn't even have heart diseases thay had also hardly cancer. "People may evolve to eat what is available to them" Meat has been available to Chimps as it did to humans. Humans have been eating meat since at least 2 million years. "Modern humans and our ancestors have spent the majority of our history eating fruits, vegetables, and starches, and every human being on earth is most healthy on a vegan diet." That is simply a big lie. A couple of scientific data who proves you wrong. Now provide me yours. -"Evolving to Eat Mush": How Meat Changed Our Bodies NGC 2005 -The Hunting Apes:Meat Eating and the Origins of Human Behavior Craig B. Stanford 1999 -Early Humans Began Eating Meat Earlier Than Thought: Oldest Known Evidence of Anemia Caused by a Nutritional Deficiency 2012 -Meat, Cooked Foods Needed for Early Human Brain Christopher Wanjek, LiveScience Bad Medicine 2012 -Meat Eating Behind Evolutionary Success of Humankind, Global Population Spread, Study Suggests , sciencedaily 2012. -"Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA): An Ancient Nutrient for the Modern Human Brain"Published: 10 May 2011 -Oldest Evidence of Stone Tool Use and Meat-Eating Among Human Ancestors Discovered: Lucy's Species Butchered Meat2010 -"New tolls, new food" Smithsonian.
celt130 NGC 2005 "Carnivorous humans go back a long way. Stone tools for butchering meat, and animal bones with corresponding cut marks on them, first appear in the ***fossil record*** about 2.5 million years ago." - LOL! What a load of crap.
celt130 The Hunting Apes: Meat Eating and the Origins of Human Behavior Craig B. Stanford There are many differing theories as to the causes of brain size increase - This is just ONE OF THEM.
Why would someone dislike this? You can disagree but in the end this what she end up with in her struggle between thinking and searching, we all do that and it’s good to share what you came up with and it’s all negotiable just so we can all gather information and thoughts and get closer to the right thing.
As she said, as a vegan "you don't want to look for information because you threaten who you are" Same things applies to the vegans who come on here and listen to this. they re scared of hearing the truth
There's many vegans who make their own choices and respect people that still choose to eat meat, but on the other side their are extreme vegans who feel the need to push their ideas onto other people and shame those who decided to leave veganism. Some even go as far as never talking to their family again because they didn't want to go vegan. That's when it becomes like some sort of cult mentality.
So, I painfully watched the entire 28 minutes of this video and Lierre Kieth did not present a SINGLE counter argument to a vegan/vegetarian diet. 1. Name one nutrient that is ONLY found in meat that cannot be found in a plant-based diet. 2. Name one disease or deficiency that is ONLY found among vegans. 3. Plant protein IS digestible. Animal protein actually makes your body acidic and messes up your pH levels. 4. Did she really say vitamin A, D, and K is not found in plants? Vitamin D you get from the sun and the rest of the vitamins and minerals ARE found in plants. 5. A vegan diet has been found to prevent and sometimes reverse diabetes and cancer, not cause it. 6. The Eskimos may not have got cancer a lot, but they sure did get osteoporosis and had a very short life span. 7. How come the countries with the highest consumption of meat and dairy also have the highest rate of osteoporosis? 8. The human brain runs on glucose (sugar), NOT fat. 9. The U.S. alone could feed 800 million people with grain that livestock eat. 10. Meat has 0 fiber -- have fun being on the crapper for awhile. I love to hear Lierre Kieth (who is only an author, not a doctor or nutritionist) or ANYBODY please try to refute and these 10 points. Otherwise you meat eaters are all just talking out your ass and are just trying to finding excuses to justify your meat eating habits and the slaughter of 58 BILLION animals per year!
Dee Smith How come meat eaters are just as deficient in B12 as vegans? B12 is naturally found in the dirt, not animals. So the only reason animals have B12 is because when they eat the plants (with that little bit of dirt) they get B12. The only reason people get B12 deficient today is because we now live in such a clean and sterile environment. Many years ago B12 was not an issue. Everybody should take a B12 supplement if their levels are low, not just vegans. As for DHA, your body creates it on its own. The body can convert ALA into EPA and DHA -- ALA is found in soy, walnuts, flaxseeds, hempseed, chia seed, ect. Did you honestly think I haven't heard these arguments before?
Really? Animals have B12 either because they have a rumen or they use coprophilia to absorb the bacterially produced B12 from the gut, I.E they eat their own poo, a little bit of dirt no sorry...and yes vegans are deficient. Abstract Background: Vegetarians have a lower intake of vitamin B-12 than do omnivores. Early and reliable diagnosis of vitamin B-12 deficiency is very important. Objective: The objective was to investigate vitamin B-12 status in vegetarians and nonvegetarians. Design: The study cohort included 66 lactovegetarians or lactoovovegetarians (LV-LOV group), 29 vegans, and 79 omnivores. Total vitamin B-12, methylmalonic acid, holotranscobalamin II, and total homocysteine concentrations were assayed in serum. Results: Of the 3 groups, the vegans had the lowest vitamin B-12 status. In subjects who did not consume vitamins, low holotranscobalamin II (< 35 pmol/L) was found in 11% of the omnivores, 77% of the LV-LOV group, and 92% of the vegans. Elevated methylmalonic acid (> 271 nmol/L) was found in 5% of the omnivores, 68% of the LV-LOV group, and 83% of the vegans. Hyperhomocysteinemia (> 12 μmol/L) was present in 16% of the omnivores, 38% of the LV-LOV group, and 67% of the vegans. The correlation between holotranscobalamin II and vitamin B-12 was weak in the low serum vitamin B-12 range (r = 0.403) and strong in the high serum vitamin B-12 range (r = 0.769). Holotranscobalamin II concentration was the main determinant of total homocysteine concentration in the vegetarians (β = −0.237, P < 0.001). Vitamin B-12 deficiency led to hyperhomocysteinemia that was not probable in the upper folate range (> 42.0 nmol/L). Conclusions: Vegan subjects and, to a lesser degree, subjects in the LV-LOV group had metabolic features indicating vitamin B-12 deficiency that led to a substantial increase in total homocysteine concentrations. Vitamin B-12 status should be monitored in vegetarians. Health aspects of vegetarianism should be considered in the light of possible damaging effects arising from vitamin B-12 deficiency and hyperhomocysteinemia. ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/1/131.long
I waste eating some junk 25 years ago when I changed, cold-turkey into a vegan diet. It was the best!!! Lots of energy. No need to sleep but 6,7 hours. But it only lasted a year. Little by little I regressed. Was the problem the "vegan" or was I eating way to much fruit?. I changed the fruit and felt better. Gave up on vegan and would eat only a little bit of meats and yogurt. Fast forward to 2010. I had erectile dysfunction, premature ejaculation, etc. Visit a vegan nutritionist and used vegan lifestyle for a couple years. Nothing. Started working hard and ended up looking pathetic. But I wanted to believe vegan is the moral way to survive. There are many vegans who are great examples. Finally somebody I looked like shit. I started eating a lb of meat a month and two eggs a day. Felt better, but not great. Finally another nutritionist told me to eat 4oz meat everyday, two eggs, bone soup, and two spoons of whey. Three weeks into it, I can seen the difference. So in my heart I want to be vegan. But I have to choose between either that or dying sooner than I should. For a long time I reached the conclusion meat is not the real culprit. Eaten in extreme moderation, like for health, instead of for pleasure, it just can't kill us like so many people claim. The real problem, in my humble opinion, is all the processed junk we eat around the meat. All the grains and sugar.
+Francisco Navarro I've tried to be vegan on numerous occasions. I think it's an admirable goal to want to reduce animal suffering. However, no matter what we do, something dies for us to live. It's just nature. I have Hashimoto's disease and got very ill from vegan foods. I'm intolerant to gluten and soy and the vegan "meats" literally made me vomit. I've determined that it's probably a lot better just to stick to whole foods: Veggies, fruits, organic dairy, grass fed/wild meat if possible, backyard eggs, because at least I'm not supporting the large concentrated feed lots, and I feel a lot better.
Everything she says is true about insulin carbs and protein and cholesterol and how the body functions chemically. I have been doing LCHF for years and ever once and a while I regress to a normal diet and allergies come back I get sick tired bad digestion bad bowl movement body fat freaks out. Mind you I am a competitive bodybuilder who trains others to get in peak shape in 16 weeks to get on stage. The funny thing is the LCHF diet produces reproducible results week by week in everyone I train and in my self this a key component when dealing with science. It's just hard to explain how eating fat will make you lean even when the science is right there. I just wrote up a diet for a guy who works with my wife he lost 20 in 6 weeks eating tons of fat and protein and his cals were like 2500 to start no need to starve your self. He had doubts but he gained muscle and his abs are showing now and text me every week thanking me for changing his life.
Kat Kamp You are doing a great service to humanity. My wife never cave in to my persuading her to become vegan. She is all right. However she was diagnosed with low thyroid function, not sure if the name Hashimoto applies, though. I learned some veggies from the broccoli family are not good for her. They will not be tolerated by you either, I think. Unfermented soy is a "NO, NO.!!!!" Non organic unfermented dairy is no, no. Raw fermented would be the best. I've learned that organic iodine is greatly needed for the thyroid. You may want to also consider eating some apricots everyday for at least six months. Dr. Marshall claims they antagonize the inorganic iron stuck in the liver from years of fortified white junk (I mean flour). Sorry. I got carried away!!! Me? as of now I'm doing great. I still have some more to go. But my muscles are feeling like meat again. For years they felt like jello. I'm kidding.
WTF? You had erectile dysfunction that was cured by eating meat? The crap that's in animal foods is what clogs the arteries, including penile ones. Of course, many people go on a vegan diet to reverse heart disease, but a low-fat, whole food, vegan diet will give you rock hard erections as well. You just have to remember to eat a larger volume of food for energy because low-fat plant foods are not nearly as calorie dense as animal foods. I'm a 50 year old vegan who has to wear jean shorts at a beach. If I wear shorts that are loose and thin cloth I'd have some unsightly bulges showing whilst around my partner in her swimming clothes.
Clyde Rembrandt WTF Clyde, can't you read? When did I say my ED was cured by eating meat? ED like most health challenges is caused by more than on factor. Anyone who is spending anytime searching, with an open mind, will come to the conclusion toxins are a BIG, BIG factor. I returned to vegan for almost two years and didn't feel any effect. Didn't it help at all? I'm sure it id prepare the soil to when I found a detox tea that seemed to fix the problem. But I didn't understand the need for protein, if I had entered a different phase in my life. If you don't need to eat meat to have a great sex life, I congratulate you. I'm happy for you. But stop using your testosterone to block your understanding, please. Our bodies are dealing with different things. Some people can be vegetarians. Some can't. I can't. I tried it. I would like to still be one. But I can't. If you can, please open your ears and realize I'm not you. Others are not you.
You know, each of us is experimenting with our own bodies, and researching, to find the diet that works for us. What would happen if commenters focused on what they find works in their life, rather than discrediting others? I think we'd learn a lot more from one another about living healthier lives.
I don't mind a debate or even constructive criticism, but I draw the line when it come below the belt insults. Show a vegan an inconvenient fact that their lifestyle is unhealthy and they reply with sophomoric responses like accusing us of eating like maggots. Grow up, eat a steak and get some protein, amino acids omega 3's Coq10 and other nutrients for the brain only found in meat because it's obvious that you are sorely lacking!
Absolutely devastating - you could hear it in the host’s reactions. We really owe it to ourselves to work towards that future of extensive agriculture where humans enjoy the production of healthy ecosystems rather than the pure destruction today.
I am Vegetarian from my mother's womb, I have never put a piece of roten corpse inside my body. I'm a healthy person I weight normal and have energy just as every one else. In my opinion meat eating is below human dignity
@Aroncare I feel so sorry for you. Hopefully you take B12 supplements. I used to be plant based and I am thrilled with how much better I feel eating mostly meat now. I am so grateful to the animals that die so I can get proper nourishment. There is no life without death.
She's right. The human body was not designed to eat grass...we produce no cellulase. I have adopted a mostly fish and steamed vegetable diet and have eliminated most grains out and feel better than I have in years.
I was vegan for 14 years and had to revert back to meat diet last month for exactly the reasons Lierre is talking about. I experienced and felt all this first-hand even before hearing about Lierre. As an ex-vegan who still loves vegans for what they are standing for, it's still hard for me to accept what we are at this time and never thought we were so dependent on meat protein, but people like you Lierre (having gone through what you went through) keep me going now and are close to my heart, and are helping with this transition back to previous lifestyle, but with obviously some differences, taking the last 14 years as a vegan in my heart as well. You're one of the few who really understands Lierre. I know some will find it hard to believe, but when you feel this as strongly as I have after coming close to death, and really feeling the difference with meat protein, it's hard to ignore. I'm hoping a chicken and fish diet will suffice, and we can do without eating other animals.
If u think it's ethical healthy to consume meat think again! Very healthy vegaterian here vegans go a bit to far sometimes like adding climate change to the agenda
Okay, but did you get on Cronometer to find out what your "vegan" diet was lacking, or, did you get a comprehensive blood test from a qualified nutritionist to discover?. My guess is, your vegan diet was low in iron, zinc, B12, and other nutrients that made you feel awful. As as longtime vegan there have been times where I was not making the best whole food choices and my nutrition suffered. It was not the vegan "diet" but MY poor food choices.
My primary motivation for videoing this conversation with Lierre was to look at the unsustainability of monocrop agriculture (primarily for grains). Just read today that 75% of food crop species have gone extinct in the last 100 years. That's a lot of important bio-diversity we will/would need in future -- to reduce reliance on pesticides, herbicides, irrigation. I salute people who are experimenting with food forests in their region. As Lierre said, we need perennial polycultures rather than monocrop agriculture.
Comment threads are becoming one big mess here, comments are not shown at all. There should be 169 comments in this thread alone! Is something wrong with your settings or is it my internet connection?
peakmoment Fine, but veganism/vegetarianism isn't the root cause of monocrop agriculture. Perhaps you should have named it something different than the "Vegetarian Myth" if that really was your goal. A lot of grain that is produced also goes to livestock that then gets slaughtered for their meat, so neither you or Lierre have any sustainable arguments.
Arvin Vaziri Half true.. Most people on my side dont think animals should be fed grains. We think they should be grass fed. Grass based agriculture with grazing animals that can be used for food is the way to go. Grains and vegetables are secondary and the way they are grown currently leads to desertification of the planet...
Some guy222 You think your plastic shoes, air flown sugar snap peas, quinoa, wild rice, soy ice cream, agave syrup, imported miso, etc etc etc DOESN'T hurt the environment? little bit naive mate...
Has anyone mentioned her interview on kpfa where she admitted to binging on eggs and dairy every chance she got while being a "vegan"? Or that all vegans eat beef once a week??? Was she really a vegan or a hipster pretending to be a vegan?
If she did that it is quite clear it was because the vegan diet was not nourishing her at all and so she gave in to her natural cravings for the food one really needs to thrive. I ate like a vegan as an experiment and found one of the things I craved most was eggs and liver. Many people who try a vegan diet will find they do not thrive at all and they get weaker and sicker. One ignores deficiencies from the vegan diet at ones own peril. The vegan diet is very dangerous. I have seen first hand the damage it does.
Sylvia King suuuure sure sure. Let me give you an alternative story about somebody else to show you how ridiculous this statement is. "The reason he was binging on Xanax is because he was missing coke, he wanted to stay clean and many people who were addicted to coke will find they will not thrive without it and get weaker and sicker from their addiction. They begin shaking sweating and it's just easiest go back to coke, or pretend you're clean and binge on other drugs instead of making excuses". That's what it is EXCUSES. If you set your mind to something and follow the guidelines and make sure you don't give in to your cravings vegan diet is good enough to sustain a human being. What she did, as she admitted in this video, she was trying to impress somebody and hence her thinking she was a vegan where in fact she was just pretending.
Without global delivery of food there would be no vegans. Could you live on what only grows locally for the whole year without salting and/or pickling the shit out of it.
WOW This might be the vid that Pushes me to STOP eating bread! Im gunna start eating for survival & health & not for the pleasure...& eventually the Pleasure will be in the health!
I was a vegan for 14 years for ethical reasons, deteriorated slowly over that time and almost dead twice in the end. I tried everything. I was still stubborn and kept on vegan diet. But felt a real difference after trying animal products again (reluctantly to prove animal products wouldn't help me), and health was restored amazingly. I really FELT this, all the theory she talks about may be just words to many who haven't felt this, and many vegans will always find an argument to defend their way of life (like we did), and you can find an opposing argument to anything if you try hard enough (random quotes/data that don't explain it all ultimately, but just oppose statements to desperately defend your position), but when you actually feel the effects first-hand, it's no longer just unproven theory. And sadly it may require vegans to "crash" like we have in order to finally accept what we are and need. We'll just have to find other ways to continue that dream we share with vegans, to eliminate suffering, respect all living beings, and make the world a better place. Just in a more gradual and realistic way. Our intentions are still there, and we'll succeed ultimately with those intentions in our hearts.
I'm on page 179 of this book; I'm kind of surprised that I'm not seeing more comments about how incredibly well written this book is! I'm mesmerized by it; I've taken breaks from reading to do other things like work and run errands, but if I just had all free time I wouldn't stop reading it. Lierre writes incredibly well; very passionate about what she's discovered. I love it. Of course I came to it with a very open mind because I haven't lived a vegetarian or vegan life. I admire the great intentions of people who are vegetarian or vegan. But this book really resonates as true based on other books and other research I've read. I guess it is controversial to other people; to me, I just keep nodding my head because I know she's right.
and then I checked out her other videos and realized she endorse underground militant violence in order to fight the powers that be and end civilization to save the planet!! Oh boy...too extreme for me! the planet matters more than the people because of "overshoot"....I did like her veggie myth book in the first half but I hate her underground ideas...lots of people would get hurt that way.
What I don't understand is that she's basically saying that vitamin A cannot be obtained from plants, at all, even though every source I find says that provitamin A gets converted into Vitamin A from vegetables. I'm not really sure what she means by that statement? I am entirely clueless about biochemi, but this seems very clear and easy to back up, unless I've missed something.
I see a lot of vegan/vegetarians who were having a lot of health problems that alleviated or cleared up when they went to a keto/carnivore diet on various CZcams videos and comments on the Internet; however, I haven't read any keto/carnivore dieters who were having major health issues that cleared up after they converted to a vegetarian/vegan diet.
The issue is they are still mentally ill thinking THEY will change the planet and the nature of people....literal communists...even her in this video says having less people is better instead of saying let nature take it's course... ignoring that abundance creates abundance... since she lives out nature and in urban hellhole...
Of course, because not all omnivores eat a wholesome "diet", nor do all vegans. If a vegan is not consuming enough iron through beans, is low in iodine, folate, zinc, that can make anyone feel bad. My vegannism has improved over the MANY years because I took the time to understand what to add to what I ate. Blood tests also help to see what ius missing, but most ex's did not take the time to do that. They eat what they want and ignore the rest. You seem to ignore the fact that the EX"S" grew up as an omnivore, they did not come from a vegan upbringing. So, when stressed and feeling poorly, they revert to what they knew. MY blood test revealed I was low in D3, despite taking it for 2 years, and that I avoided grains yet needed the B vitamins within them. Lyme was also part of the whole issue.
" I received an outpouring of emails from fellow ‘vegan’ bloggers, who told me in confidence that they weren’t really vegan ‘behind the scenes’. They ate eggs, or the occasional fish, or piece of meat, all to keep themselves healthy, but were too scared to admit to it on their blogs. I even received emails from two very prominent and well respected members of the vegan AR community. One a published and much loved vegan cook book author, the other a noted animal rights blogger, their emails detailed their health struggles and eventual unpublicized return to eating meat. Many people sent me links to other vegans who had struggled with veganism related health problems and had been forced to return to eating animals and animal products, or had decided to stop following a vegan diet, such as: Raw Model, Debbie Does Raw, Daniel Vitalis, Sweetly Raw, Chicken Tender, The Non-Practicing Vegan, and PaleoSister, to name just a few. It was refreshing to know I wasn’t the only one suffering from this problem, and the more I heard, the more it seemed I wasn’t even in the minority." curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1728051
What gets me, is that people automatically assume that vegetarians turn to flour and sugar in replace of meat. Maybe some due. But as a Vegan, I have non of these in my diet. It's the same with a meat diet. A meat diet introduces all meat foods, like fatty shredded beef, sausages, burgers, bacon which are usually on a BUN with flour and sugar dressings of some sort. So it's the place in the middle that really needs addressed. However, it's too easy to "slip-up" on a meat diet and "have a little restaurant food here and there". Then you are back in the diabetic/cancer/obesity game. Paleo must be VERY lean with all chard portions and fat cut off the edges and removed from the meat from every meal - very lean. Include grass-fed organic beef and free-range chicken meat. But it must be VERY clean (all the time) along with an organic whole food diet of vegetables. No boxed, packaged, flour, butter, sauces, fried, sugar, fast food, vending machine food, chips, and nothing except water to drink. If you follow this on a paleo diet, you are head of the game. Are some people healthier on a paleo diet then a vegan? Yes absolutely. Are some vegans on a healthier diet then paleo? Yes of course.
Plus plant-based diets don't satisfy my stomach I don't feel full and I don't have the energy I feel crap and the other thing is I wind up on the toilet all day
Notice to commenters: I will delete comments that are bashing, name-calling, or flaming. Give us your personal experience, or reference some information that you find valuable. If you continue bashing, I will block you from the channel. I intend this forum to be a respectful discourse, which means commenters agree to disagree.
Sandra Barlow Lierre's assertions about commercial agriculture's being biocide (and leads to desertification) is supported by countless studies and just plain history (the middle east was once covered with forests). Ditto Her assertion that we need perennial polycultures rather than monocrops. That discussion was the primary focus of our conversation and why I interviewed her. Did you listen to those parts of the conversation?
I've been trying to reply to posts on here which plainly misunderstand the point that I have been making. For a start, I am not anti-meat eating. I am anti-sanctimonious preachers on either side of the debate who tell other people what is good for them. I don't care about factory farming, nor about the cows. Cows are pathetic. I just think videos like this are examples of precisley the type of high-and-mighty bigotry that both meat eaters and vegans are guilty of. I think Lierre is talking some sense that would help SOME people, some vegans are not in good shape, for whatever reason. But it is for THEM to decide, not HER. Some vegans are in fine shape. Patrik Baboumian, hey, vegan world record breaking strongman. Then there was the British sikh who completed a competitive marathon aged 100. He's a vegan too. There are all sorts, no one thing helps every person. I do get a sense that vegans overreact to criticism of their diets at times, but it's not about B12 deficiency. I have been vegan for 25 years and medically tested for B12 annually for the last 8, never any deficiency registered. I think some vegans sometimes react out of fear that all this might be right, but then I may be wrong. If you enjoy talking down to people, and want to post videos about what's bad for people, and what's killing the planet, have a go at smoking, or fracking, or proponents of nuclear power. Veganism is a fringe issue which concerns less than 1% of the world's population, most of whom are capable of deciding for themselves if they feel well or are fit, and if they need to revert back to a meat-based diet. But really, this video is so high-and-mighty-we-are-right-and-you-are-wrong-and-you-are-low-life that you have no right to complain that people post angry responses to it.
Agreed, although vegans can be very 'intimidating' at times. Not you, I've met vegans who, when they learn I am vegan and can't preach to me, grill me on which vitamins I take etc.
peakmoment I have lived in the Middle East, and yes, it's mostly desert. I've never heard anybody blame vegans for it though, I singly doubt there are more than a handful of vegans across the whole region. Vegans are mostly developed world inhabitants or Indians, where of course the desert is creeping uncontrollably through the monsoon regions and rainforests. Meanwhile, in Mongolia near us here, the vast Gobi Desert surely owes to the overcultivation of mung beans and quinoa plantations. In any case, the bit that struck me most about Lierre's claims was that 1 she was not really a vegan and 2 she claims that vegans eat beef, which really invalidates everything else she says about us.
Chris Trickett She doesn't really mean that vegans caused the desert. She means that agriculture over centuries (millenia?) in the area that used to be the fertile crescent which literally leeched the land of all its nutrients turning it into a desert. The vegan population now puts a comparable strain on the modern agriculture system in a more condensed time period.
I was a vegan for 14 years for ethical reasons, deteriorated slowly over that time and almost dead twice in the end. I tried everything. I was still stubborn and kept on vegan diet. But felt a real difference after trying animal products again (reluctantly to prove animal products wouldn't help me), and health was restored amazingly. I really FELT this, all the theory she talks about may be just words to many who haven't felt this, and many vegans will always find an argument to defend their way of life (like we did), and you can find an opposing argument to anything if you try hard enough (random quotes/data that don't explain it all ultimately, but just oppose statements to desperately defend your position), but when you actually feel the effects first-hand, it's no longer just unproven theory. And sadly it may require vegans to "crash" like we have in order to finally accept what we are and need. We'll just have to find other ways to continue that dream we share with vegans, to eliminate suffering, respect all living beings, and make the world a better place. Just in a more gradual and realistic way. Our intentions are still there, and we'll succeed ultimately with those intentions in our hearts.
I got sick eating a vegetarian diet. I just liked animals, so didn't eat to eat them. My pets never have any problem eating meat and those I took in that had lived outdoors would go after after birds like it's normal.
I'm a vegan, have been for 25 years but I don't care what people eat. It amuses me how riled people get about the subject. It's mostly meat eaters who go on about it endlessly, but vegans can be just as boring too. People eat meat, or they don't! If you feel the need to say anything else about it, even a single word, you probably have a lot more missing in your life than some random vitamin.
I have an auto-immune condition. Went vegetarian for 7 years in my 30's. Exacerbated my condition to its worst. On top of that, I have a student that's epileptic. The carb/starch/sugar paradigm wreaks havoc for many people. The original ketogenic diet was developed for kids with epilepsy. My student removed those plant products and saw real changes, as I have, too. My body LOVES the fats and proteins. I do some low-glycemic veggies, but mainly fats and protein. The ratio that works best for me fats to protein to carbs... 4 : 1 : 1 F : P : C
No vitamin A, K, E, fat, or protein in plants? How the hell did this women come so far as to publish a book? A 5 year old can google or ask their doctor where to get those vitamins, and google or the doctor will say kale, spinach, sweet potatoes, etc. 🙄 she lost all her credibility right there.
Fat soluble vitamins A, D, E, K are produced in animal bodies -- ours and others. Some people (elderly, children, those with chronic illness) may be unable to make these in sufficient quantity.
It is extremely sad how easily people are brainwashed! But it's not a pleasant thought that the government wants you to stay sick and really doesn't want to protect you. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
I have seen many vegan girls/women get ill, hypoglycemia, chronic fatigue,cessation of periods,inability to conceive,insomnia, fibromalgia, M.E, depression, tiredness, etc. These symptoms often happening before the 20 year mark, I see no reason to doubt Lierre's truthfulness about her quite typical symptomology.
She made a lot of sense, from many of the things that i have read and learned about industrial revolution. I live in a country where a lot of the surplus products comes in and hurts the economy and the livelihood of farmers.
I was interested in what she had to say but vitamin A is found abundantly in carrots, vitamin E in sunflower seeds and almonds , vitamin D from sunlight. Has she researched this at all?
Lierre's claim surprised me, too. I dug deeper and learned that the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K are made within an animal body; the plant foods provide the elements but not the full vitamin. So her research is sound. (By the way, most people in the northern & southern latitudes can't get enough vitamin D from sunlight -- not enough hours in winter especially).
Michael Groom She said the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K are not found in plants. Which they aren't. She didn't talk about plants having the building blocks, but that an animal body is where the complete vitamins are made. (That's in the book or you can research it online).
not sure about retinol but in terms of protein she forgets to mention that our body breaks all protein we eat whether plant or animal into its specific amino acids (building blocks) and then rebuilds its own with them.. getting the 'complete' protein she talks of is very misleading in this sense I feel,, protein is predominantly a plant product.. plants produce hundreds of them.. all of the essential amino acids all animals need (including all carnivores) must come from plants.. don't even bananas contain all 8 essential amino acids? I know that soy definitely does, as well as quinoa and several other grains.
I was all with her until she started talking about feminism. She said we need to teach a girl how to read, women outnumber men in university. That was the dumbest thing I've heard.
Humans have a long and complex digestive system not a short digestive tract like she said early on in the video. Just thought I would clear that up so no one is confused.
Arab Dude Listen to your body. Do you feel sluggish after eating meat and dairy? Do you struggle on the toilet (without sounding rude, but it's got to be said!)? Do you feel satiated after eating meat? Can you chew meat raw? Can you hunt and kill your meat without a weapon? If so, how often can you eat? Do you feel full, satisfied and wholesome after eating vegetables and fruits? Are you ill? Do you get ill often? My only advice to you would be to watch "Udderly Amazing" by Walter Veith!
This women wasn't a vegan she use to eat beef once a week and pig out on cheese and eggs. A proper plant based diet is the best diet for the human body. It's been proven time and time again.
crackshack2 I get that you think you're a smart ass, but check out some anthropological evidence. It shows that humans rarely ate meat, i.e. when there was famine. You;re out of your depth.
Emma Webb rarely eat meat? I eat meats all the time along with my vegetables. Why? Do you know anything about history? You do know its much more expensive to graze animals and feed your population with beef, chicken. Since the agricultural revolution has the majority of humanity has eaten more plants such as (uhhh durrrr) grains, yes! wheat, rice, etc. WHY?! because farming enabled bigger populations to kill your enemies with, other societies that were still hunter and gatherers could not afford to field such numbers that farming societies could. It was a function of suriviving against other groups. Not, oh humans prefer plants because thats all theyve ever eaten for the majority of civilization.
Her claim that we developed "large brains" as a result of meat consumption is misleading. Consuming meat meant we were consuming more NET CALORIES, which is what helped "grow" our brains. Our brains don't run on "meat," they run on glucose -- which, yes, you can get entirely from carbohydrates and plant-based sources.
Her information checks out to me. I am a former vegetarian who suffered physically from eating that way. The second i started eating meat again, i saw a huge improvement in my health. Then i went the other way and started a ketogenic diet ( high fat, medium protein, extremely low carbohydrate ) and dropped weight ridiculously fast and felt even better. I do appreciate peak moment for sharing this. When i was a vegetarian, i downrated the video because i didn't like what i was hearing. It's funny to come back to it years later and click 'like'.
Thanks for your honesty, neptronix. Your experience sounds remarkably like mine, and even Lierre's. Changes in diet make take awhile to have their effect. I feel like being ketogenic has taken decades off my life -- energy levels, weight, emotional stability.
There's no one right diet for everyone. It seems Lierre's body was starving for quality fats. Your vegan diet seems to work well for you. You may have stronger genetics than other people, as well as eating a well-rounded vegan diet.
peakmoment "There's no one right diet for everyone" Out of curiosity, do you believe that smoking cigarettes may be for some people and not for others? In other words, status as a non-smoker may not be beneficial for everyone. I know plenty of people who claim they feel lousy without smoking and much better when they smoke every 90 to 120 minutes. Do you think that smoking could be like diet where there is no one-size-fits-all?
***** Firstly, there is no vegan diet. One could have two cantaloupes and six peaches for breakfast or 25 oreo cookies with three cups of coffee for breakfast. Both options don't contain animal products, but I'll leave it as an exercise for you to find any distinguishing features between the two examples. I could generate many more examples as this one may be a little tricky. The only nutrient that vegans should not rely on for their diet is vitamin B12. All other nutrients can be found in dietary sources that don't contain animal products. That being said, if you strongly oppose B12 supplements you probably shouldn't eat meat because the livestock industry uses 90% of all synthetically produced vitamin B12. Perhaps you could drink local pond or lake water and defecate in your garden as a B12 source if you really want to avoid industrially produced vitamin B12. Basically, some people can squeak by while eating animal body parts, eggs, and milk from their nipples. But, many end up with heart disease, certain cancers, diabetes, fibromyalgia, and many other aliments that they could have avoided by avoiding animal products. Animal eaters hate it when they hear about someone who grew up eating animal breast milks, eggs and body parts but now enjoy greater health because they omitted them from their diet. That being said, omitting animal products from one's diet is not for everyone. You'd probably need the research skills of an average 6th grader to distinguish between vegan junk foods and health foods.
I guess it's just a coincidence that populations that have the lowest meat and dairy intake happen to be the healthiest and longest living people on earth, like those who live in Okinawa. Maybe we should tell them that they need to eat more meat like all the other people with obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and osteoporosis.
High fat diets cause obesity due to how fats are metabolized in the body. Fats almost always get deposited in adipose tissue after consumption unless one is in ketosis and starving. Sugars and carbohydrates on the other had either get used immediately by the trillions of cells in your body that need energy, get stored as muscle glycogen, or burnt off as body heat. I challenge you to find me a fat vegan who follows an 80/10/10 style diet. I myself follow the 80/10/10 diet and that is why I am able to easily build muscle and stay lean.
habadashery2009 How do you explain people getting obese or putting on fat consuming nothing but sugar when drinking commercial fruit juices? Is there a difference between consuming processed sugars while drinking commercial fruit juices as opposed to eating natural sugars in the form of whole fruit?
Do you think it's the juice that makes them fat, or is it everything else that they eat that contributes to weight gain and metabolic disorders? In other words eating a big mac and blaming a sugary drink for your weight gain doesn't make much sense. Refined sugars aren't nearly as good as naturally occurring sugars as they aren't processed well by the body due to their lack of presence of other nutrients and can cause inflammation. People who complain about weight gain when eating fruit or natural fruit juices should consider what else they have in their diet such as high fat foods, and if they have previously been starving which will cause temporary weight gain when switching to a proper diet.
Disregard heart disease, diabetes, & tumor growth, then we can disregard veganism. Hunter-gatherers rarely had diseases of old age because they rarely lived to old age.
peakmoment I'm not sure what "as long as we do" _is_. How long does that mean? The US average? In any case, those who survived childhood, accidents & the infections involved, bad water, etc...were the healthiest of the bunch in the first place. And what exactly _did_ they die from when older? Something somehow _better_ than what people die from now?
Im Yu But gatherers of what? Things such as shellfish, insects, or small mammals are categorized with the gathering label, generally, because one does not "hunt" them with a spear. As such, many animal products/calories may be misunderstood to be vegetation, if one assumes all animal eating is due to "hunting" and only vegetable foods are gathered.
Nah didn't like this at all. Go ahead and eat your meat fats to get protein, but don't tell me as a vegan that I am sick and unhealthy. Also the interviewer seems extremely gullible in my opinion.
Lierre Keith is a person whose shown great courage in not only changing her course in life to essentially save her life as well "health wise, physically and consciously too, but to then go public and stay public while receiving constant threats from organizations and or the staunch supporters of vegetables, and fruits are all that is not only needed, but is what man should only consume as meat is a poison to the human body. I applaud her, and tip my hat to someone who simply states her feelings on what she herself has gone though. Lierre also knows personally many zealots in the community of Vegans who did not either fully follow the tenets, and or suffered badly either way from having followed it too closely over the many years she held true to the beliefs. We need to appreciate people like Lierre as there are not many who tell their personal story for others to make inform decisions instead of simply going by their initial feelings in the matter than by utilizing someone else's experience in having lived through it already. God bless her and anyone else who is brave enough to be honest in what they experienced.
She says some vitamins like A,D,K,E are not found in vegetables. I have checked from internet from different sources. Most of sources of these vitamins are vegan food. For example there is one top 10 list for Vitamin A, except liver all others are vegan food. And as far as i know vitamin d is from sun. So i am really confused about this.
But you're missing the main point; yes plants, like carrots and yams have vitamin A, but in the presence of animal fats, these vitamins are much more efficiently absorbed into our bodies. Without animal fats, the vitamins which are in the plants are partially but not so completely absorbed.
Ok now some vitamins are water soluable, but vitamin A is fat soluable, so we need fats in order to absorb this vitamin. And polyunsaturated fats aren't stable, they go rancid easily and can cause lots of problems. that leaves saturated fat and monounsaturated fat. It's very likely that the best absorption of vitamins does occur with saturated fat which comes from animal sources. check out this info I found: www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/the-skinny-on-fats/ The much-maligned saturated fats-which Americans are trying to avoid-are not the cause of our modern diseases. In fact, they play many important roles in the body chemistry: Saturated fatty acids constitute at least 50% of the cell membranes. They are what gives our cells necessary stiffness and integrity. They play a vital role in the health of our bones. For calcium to be effectively incorporated into the skeletal structure, at least 50% of the dietary fats should be saturated.38 They lower Lp(a), a substance in the blood that indicates proneness to heart disease.39 They protect the liver from alcohol and other toxins, such as Tylenol.40 They enhance the immune system.41 They are needed for the proper utilization of essential fatty acids. Elongated omega-3 fatty acids are better retained in the tissues when the diet is rich in saturated fats. 42 Saturated 18-carbon stearic acid and 16-carbon palmitic acid are the preferred foods for the heart, which is why the fat around the heart muscle is highly saturated.43 The heart draws on this reserve of fat in times of stress. Short- and medium-chain saturated fatty acids have important antimicrobial properties. They protect us against harmful microorganisms in the digestive tract. The scientific evidence, honestly evaluated, does not support the assertion that “artery-clogging” saturated fats cause heart disease.44 Actually, evaluation of the fat in artery clogs reveals that only about 26% is saturated. The rest is unsaturated, of which more than half is polyunsaturated.45 I know this sounds CRAZY compared to the line we've been given for years! But the more I read into all of this, the more I'm inclined to start agreeing. Our health problems, before the Ancel Keys study that demonized saturated fat, were far less than the health problems and heart disease problems that rose quickly after people traded in their saturated fats for polyunsaturated oils and margarines and now of course we all know that trans fats are awful for our bodies! It is pretty jarring to our belief systems, sure, but the definition of an open mind is to take in all the information, and don't discard any of it only because it doesn't fit with ideas you have already. Someone posted a video that was good; the narrator of this video said that if you have a hypothesis that all ducks are white and you see only white ducks for a long time and then come to really believe it's a fact that all ducks are white, then when you see a black duck, you can't ignore that black duck and still believe all ducks are white! You have to change your mind and say, oh it's wrong that all ducks are white.
thanks for your information! i have to look into all that in more detail, but meanwhile I'm still skeptical because I lived for years on a mostly vegan diet occasionally supplemented by dairy, eggs, or meat; and now I live on a "normal" diet high in animal products and I don't feel that my health is better at all, in fact it seems worse. anyway I guess the truth will probably turn out to be somewhere in the middle: probably a completely vegetarian diet is not healthy, but a diet that is so incredibly reliant on meat, refined sugar, trans fats etc. as the modern day western diet is probably not healthy either.
carfreelori Regarding Ancel Keys, he is far from the only scientist who noticed a strong link between saturated fats and cardiovascular disease. The vast majority of scientists that did follow-up testing also found the same, and academic understanding on saturated fat has been pretty established for the past 60 years. Tens of thousands of studies have come out since then to either question or verify his initial hypothesis and the evidence for the past 6 decades is very one-sided confirming Keys' findings. And the reason they are 'demonized', to use your word, by the American Heart Association, and literally every institution for public health, is because they clearly, without a doubt, 100% are strongly linked to cardiovascular disease. In fact, the mechanisms by which saturated fatty acids increase plasma LDL and ApoB (and thus the risk of cardiovascular diseases) are so well understood that many of them are now textbook facts. Textbook facts... That means the mechanisms are being taught in universities around the world. As a biologist myself, I could explain this topic in more depth if you'd like. The only source I know of who is arguing the opposite is indeed the Weston A Price foundation, which isn't surprising considering they are a lobby group funded wholly by its members which are mostly companies whose products are in line with their principles. They are as authoritative a voice in the matter of public health as Monsanto, and I wish people would stop letting corporations slip the veil over their eyes like this. Every single thing you listed as a fact in your post which I'm assuming you copied from their site is entirely untrue and pure propaganda. The World Health Organization, American Heart Association, National Institutes of Health are some of the most authoritative voices on the matter of public health. It's there you should be looking for the bulk of your nutritional recommendations; not the WAPF.
***** I'd say the point is this, a HEALTHY omnivore diet would not contain trans fats or processed foods; it would still contain whole foods and ideally not contain refined sugar except for just a tiny bit. It would contain plants and meats and dairy but would be made from scratch rather than buying ready made gmo crap from the supermarket. Nobody has mentioned that if anyone vegetarian, vegan, or omnivore is eating grains that are gmo...genetically modified...it probably isn't healthy. My idea of a healthy, balanced diet would contain a smaller amount of carbs but not no carbs at all; but I suppose it would be a semi low carb higher fat diet. I think fat has been villanized, if that's a word, unfairly because of flawed, messed up studies.
Could we not have some respect and compassion for Lierre, who is a real person with real feelings? Here is Lierre's sister on vegans reaction's to The Vegetarian Myth, A:"I have been stunned by some of the criticisms I have read, usually by people who have not read the book, and the very odd theories some people have about who she is. They have NO IDEA. Lierre? A jetsetter paid off by the meat industry? She lives in a trailer on the pittance that the government pays to people on disability. She has lived in poverty her entire adult life. She has NOTHING. I bought her the computer that she wrote The Vegetarian Myth on. I bought her the socks she is wearing because every single sock she owned had giant holes in the heels. Lierre? Eat factory farmed meat? She’d rather starve. Lierre? Exaggerating her illness? She hardly ever mentions it unless you ask. She has been in excruciating pain every day of her life since she was eighteen and a half years old. Do you want to know what doctors say when they look at her MRI? Lierre? A half-assed vegan? You could not FIND a more fundamentalist, purist, thorough vegan. No animal product touched her body. I remember one year when she decided to live entirely without plastic. She was baking her own bread. She had a wooden toothbrush. This is a woman who lived her ethics. And these particular ethics nearly killed her. Vegans need to understand this: she IS the poster child. Q, Lierre gets many vegans so angry that it’s almost as if she, rather than factory farmers, is enemy number one. My interpretation is that this is because many vegans care less about animals and the environment than about maintaining their vegan identities. And Lierre poses a greater threat to the vegan identity than actual animal abusers do. A: I think you are probably right. I think they probably also feel attacked by her. I think back to how I felt when I was a vegan. While I tried never to proselytize, I felt very passionately about it. And of course many attacks against vegetarians and vegans come from people who scoff at the very idea of trying to live carefully, of trying to find solutions, of taking the experience of other sentient beings seriously. Many people think it is laughable to imagine a world where anything but human gratification and short-term human benefit dominates. This is not Lierre Keith. What Lierre’s attackers need to understand is that she actually IS in their camp. She has the same underlying motivation, and in the case of many of her attackers, she went farther with it than they have, and she’s been at it for longer than most of them have been alive. Q: Recently, three vegans approached your sister from behind as she lectured about factory farming, and hit her with pepper-laced pies. What does this say about the attackers and those vegans who supported it? A:Well that is my question exactly. Is there no one practicing vivisection in the bay area? Are there no factory farms between Oregon and San Francisco? Do we not know the names Monsanto, Cargill, ADM? And THIS is your target?? A woman who has been working for social change longer than you’ve been alive? A middle-aged, disabled person living below the poverty line and in chronic pain? What does that say about your movement? The planet is dying and THIS is your action? I would also like to say that over the past 25 years and more Lierre has faced violence of all kinds at the hands of police, state troopers, military police, court security guards, prison guards, pimps, rapists and drunken frat boys, all in the pursuit of a more equitable world. Is that the camp you really want to be in? Because that’s where you are standing right now. Q, Do you miss anything about veganism? I miss the simplicity. It really seemed that our personal choices could save the planet and bring about all of this justice. And it seemed that we could separate ourselves from death, that we could not be a part of it, not be the cause of any creature’s suffering. We thought we could be clean, that the blood would not be on our hands, at least. We thought there was some meaningful distinction between animals “with faces” and animals without faces. (Which animals don’t have faces? Did we mean bugs? Did we mean creatures whose faces are not visible without a microscope? How did we not know that we are dependent on organisms that don’t necessarily resemble us?) Now I understand that there is no personal solution. If we want justice and a sustainable food system and health we have got to do larger and more complicated things. We have got to raise animals in such a way that they build topsoil and we have to face their deaths. We have got to change the way our continent is being used and destroyed, rather than accepting what large corporations call healthy. We have got to kill and to retain our reverence at the same time. It is all much, much harder."
You can definitely get vitamin A and vitamin E from plants. Also soy, leafy greens, legumes, nuts and seeds all have protein. I'm not saying we should all go vegan but anyone can Google this information and see what she is saying is not true. So after all this "research" 5 minutes in, she is already way off... I have no intention of watching further.
Jeff Tolmich Are you trolling or do you actually know nothing about nutrition? Vitamin A & E both mainly come from plants, only a few animals contain those nutrients and your body is designed to digest the following: sweet potato, carrots, kale, squash, romaine lettuce, apricots, cantaloupe, red pepper & mango (vitamin A) tofu, spinach, almonds, sunflower seeds, avocados, broccoli & squash (vitamin E). If you want to learn more, go look it up.
Keri Nyx Jeff is right to ask. The precursors for vitamins A and E are in plants, but not the complete vitamin. It takes an animal body to make the complete vitamin. If the source is animal, it's more readily assimilated. Some people cannot readily manufacture their own vitamins, so an animal source would work better for them.
peakmoment According to the woman in this video who clearly hasn't got a clue about nutrition. But where are the real scientific sources that back up those claims?
Keri Nyx Do you have a clue about nutrition Keri? you Cannot get vitamin A from plants, only precursors, [maybe do your research before slagging people off?] Here's one of the studies you asked for, I can post many more if you'd like? "Our research shows is many women are simply not getting enough of this vital nutrient because their bodies are not able to convert the beta-carotene.” Sixty-two women volunteered for the study, of which 29 of them were found to be carrying the genetic variation which prevented them from being able to sufficiently convert beta-carotene into vitamin A. Dr Lietz, who is based in the School of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development at Newcastle University, added: “Worryingly, younger women are at particular risk. The older generations tend to eat more eggs, milk and liver which are naturally rich in vitamin A, whereas the health-conscious youngsters on low-fat diets are relying heavily on the beta-carotene form of the nutrient.” The research team is now going to study whether the effect of the genetic variation can also be observed in men and whether body composition will influence the ability to absorb and convert beta-carotene into vitamin A." www.thejournal.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-scientists-discover-genetic-variation-4469748
Thank you for this. Yes, it's harder to fight huge corporations than just stop eating meat. I feel overwhelmed, but now really understand what is going on.
Long term studies to give accurate data about what? Not necessarily optimal health. I should clarify: brain size/weight relative to body weight, not size alone. Brain size alone of course doesn't indicate intelligence. My reading indicates humans have measurably lost brain size and stature, and gained more chronic degenerative diseases since the advent of agriculture -- that's what might concern us about optimal nutrition...and where to measure it from.
I recommend all vegans to read the Epic study. Studied over 500,000 people, conclusions just don't support veganism and vegetarianism as the road to health and longevity.
This is a great video and is based on many scientific studies carried out over decades. It also talks against the cultural norms or dogmatic following of our current north American ideal diets which have been spoon fed to us over the past 40 years. Essentially since the McGovern Report in the 1970s.
Hmmmm...........I've been vegan since birth. I'm 20 years old. I see no problems with veganism. The problem is that people do it the wrong way, eat the wrong foods, and use supplements way too much. Then when it doesn't work, they blame it on veganism. Being vegan isn't an issue as long as you eat a decent variety of foods, and you're not starving yourself. There are people who watch the documentary Earthlings, and go vegan without hesitation. They have no problems with the change in lifestyle. But there are 4 basic common-sense rules. You cannot starve yourself, you can't use supplements instead of real food, and you can't live on just oreos and soda (or the opposite, lettuce and tomatoes). You need to get some variety just as you would if you weren't vegan. It's really simple. Don't make it complicated.
***** Unfortunately I could never put the flesh of another being into my body. My body is a temple and I am NOT willing to poison it, as I'm sure most vegans agree. We all want freedom of speech and actions yet, whenever anyone chooses to exercise it, you carnivores all go crazy. Madness.
Here's something that I find very interesting: 'Studies suggest that the majority of vegetarians return to eating meat after a relatively short time. For instance, CBS conducted a poll of a representative sample of the US population and found three times as many people described themselves as former vegetarians than as vegetarians. Although the margin of error of the poll allows for substantial variance in the ratio, this estimate means that it is likely that over 75% of self-identified vegetarians in the United States at some point return to eating meat. There are two reasons that the percentage would be higher: first, people who were vegetarian for a short time several years before the survey may not have recalled it at the time of the survey, whereas people who were vegetarian at the time of the survey almost certainly did recall this, even if they were only vegetarian very briefly. Second, some of the people who reported being vegetarian at the time of the survey would not remain vegetarian for their whole lives, and the survey did not have any means of detecting this. Overall, the evidence suggests that the vast majority of people who adopt dietary changes like vegetarianism, veganism, and other forms of animal-product-limiting eventually return at least some distance towards their former dietary habits. An intervention that changes an individual’s diet usually has only a temporary effect. To know the size of the effect, we need to know how long it lasts.' comes from: www.animalcharityevaluators.org/research/foundational-research/vegetarian-recidivism/ 'Based on the available data, we believe that the average new vegetarian (or other animal-product-limiter, including vegans, pescetarians, and with less certainty adherents to meat reduction diets such as Meatless Mondays or Vegan Before 6) will retain their new dietary pattern for 3.6-13.3 years, with the most likely estimate being around 6.2 years. It is possible but not substantiated that even after quitting their animal-product-limiting diet, former limiters will continue to eat somewhat fewer animal products than they had originally. Because the one study that included analysis based on participants’ motivations for vegetarianism did not find substantial differences in recidivism based on differences in motivation, it is likely that these findings are broadly applicable to any programs with similar target audiences, once differences in the rate at which people are convinced to go vegetarian are taken into account. Further research on a variety of points would be useful for reducing uncertainty and confirming that these results apply to the general population. However, we see limited value in multiple individual programs establishing the length of time that participants retain new dietary habits, because there is little evidence that the original cause of vegetarianism affects recidivism.' This doesn't indicate that vegetarianism or veganism isn't worthwhile for those people who are able to stay optimally healthy. It just points out the high percentage of people who eventually revert to consuming some animal products. Why do so many people revert back and not make their vegetarianism life long? I've heard other ex vegans talking about health problems related to the vegan diet. Lierre is in with a very large number of people. In fact, they estimate the mean length that a person stays a vegetarian to be 6.2 years. LIerre was a vegan for 20 years, way beyond that mean! I mean, if you can be a vegan and be optimally healthy, it's noble, and more power to you. The reason I've become so interested in this debate is, frankly, because not too many of you vegans have a "live and let live attitude"; gosh, you remind me of all the "born again" christians who've tried to recruit me over the years because it's the ONLY way!
ibid "The observation led the researchers to a radical conclusion: As complex societies emerged, the brain became smaller because people did not have to be as smart to stay alive. As Geary explains, individuals who would not have been able to survive by their wits alone could scrape by with the help of others-supported, as it were, by the first social safety nets."
I appreciate the integrity and objectivity it must have taken after being a vegetarian for so long to challenge what you believed in and in turn embrace tradition!!!!! You make many wonderful points that are hard to ignore!!!!
What a brilliant woman. Thank you Lierre for your wisdom. I was nearly sucked into the vegan cult; it seems to make sense until you dig a little deeper!
Can someone speak to the truth that 98 to 99% of all animal products are factory farmed? Three glaring issue to me here is that there's no way to feed 8 billion humans with animal products from grazing animals when you consider land availability.
It is not. The most of countries on Earth are not developped enough to have factory farming. Also, what would qualify as organic farming in the USA qualifies as normal (factory) farming in Europe just because the animals are not killed at organic slaughterhouse where they are killed individually without seeing other animals dead. Free range cows and sheep on the pastures are totally normal in Europe.
"There is no end to people who want to bash, ridicule and criticise you." If you want respect you should first give respect to others. That's an universal rule all over this planet if you talk to other cultures. That's exactly what I teach to my children. You will simply gain nothing by acting the way you do.If you want to explain your vision it should be done in a correct manner without using lies. You will always have people who do not agree with you, that's life.
I will tell my emotional vegan friend that when you eat a salad remember that millions of worms, insects, and bacterias died till this food reach your table, and remember that recently scientists find that trees have feelings too. So either you will die with hunger or you have to think again and have a barbecue with me.
Thank you for posting this valuable information. I have recently transferred from a vegan diet to a Paleo diet for health reasons. This is confirmation that I've done the right thing. So grateful!
Please don't make decisions regarding your health based on CZcams videos. She has no nutrition credentials, and her claims have been debunked several times.
@@patiotaiza Some of her claims are false, but she definitely has the big picture. Keto and paleo are both exploding in popularity because of how effective they are. The carnivore community is also growing quickly just because it yields incredible results. I was cripplingly sick all my life and didn't even realize it. Removing plants from my diet made all my ailments vanish in a matter of weeks. I would rather die than go back to eating wheat.
She was never vegan. Her words, she ate dairy and eggs every chance she got. She ate sugary foods. No science based papers cited. Lots of rants and repeats. A better title would be....... "A junk food vegetarian, who did it all wrong MYTH"
I agree with you. I would never criticize a person's lifestyle, that's an unalienable right. As I've questioned medical researchers with regards to carcinogens and not one being able to answer it, I'll offer it for your consideration. How do you know you wouldn't be as healthy if you weren't vegetarian? The obvious answer is you can't know. The only way we can know the results of health issues is if we know the cause and effect of the physiology, we don't. Every diet makes the same claim. Thomas
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***** Literally speaking, you are quite right, although it's my choice on whether to keep or close the comments section. I should've mentioned that we're producing about new programs per month, including some in future about health and diet. ~Janaia
***** Let me suggest that you immerse yourself in all the videos on the nutritionfacts.org channel to ascertain what the evidence indicates is "balanced, healthful diets" - I think you will be supprised.
***** I used pubmed & BMJ for reference. Epidemiological studies are critical to temper the kind of reductionist trap that you are falling into like the HISTORIC fact that general obesity is a modern phenomenon - grain eating is not. What about all the obese rice eating Chinese ?!?!?! or obesity in the ancient near east - bread basket ?!?!? or in ancient Rome from the grain grown in Egypt !?!?!? Basic observation can trump studies many times over. Red meat VS any other meat is pointless since the biggest problem is bacterial toxic load which is common to ALL animal based products. It is clear to me that these kinds of studies are just to confound the public into giving up and eating anything they are TOLD to. Each epi-study on nutrition facts is ALWAYS accompanied by well executed reductionist studies. Epi is the predictor & reductionist is the confirmation. True, no one study generally has that much significance of its self but the overall picture is starting to emerge & it is DEFINITELY one without animal products.
***** See the latest issue of BMJ regarding dietary fiber intake and heart disease - off the back of this meta analysis:- www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6879 Conclusions - Greater dietary fibre intake is associated with a lower risk of both cardiovascular disease and coronary heart disease. Findings are aligned with general recommendations to increase fibre intake. The differing strengths of association by fibre type or source highlight the need for a better understanding of the mode of action of fibre components. Now we can say - yes, lets get into the reductionist detail of how all this works out but & this is a big BUT - animal products have no fiber & plants do. You see pointers to good nutrition are not that complicated.
Vegan for nearly 5 years until my health COMPLETELY fell apart. I was so very sick.. Have been eating animal products again for 4 days and I feel much improved already. For the first time in years I feel like I’m not starving.
But they tell us people have never lived as long as they live now. I always wondered about that since our family knows that our great -grandparents lived to the age 103 & 99 respectively. Also if you go through old cemeteries in European countries where they all have headstones with inscriptions, you can read the birth and death dates back to a hundred years and sometimes longer. People back then lived quite a long time. Mostly died (if not through war or accidents) at ages 78 - 90. There are lots of modern gravestones of children. Must be the age of cancer.
Hormones and antibiotics are illegal in farming in the EU, so stop lying. And I don´t know where you took that formaldehyde nonsense from. Formaldehyde is used for preserving dead animals in museums, scientifical collections and stuff.
Cha Chi It really is an insult to all vegetarians, claiming that they must all be nutritionally deficient in some way. Not to mention all the millions / billions of people in entire cultures that have been vegetarian for thousands of years, such as Hindu's.
R. Giskard "P.S. Your child is notably fat and ugly." Bravo, my friend. Well spoken. You insult babies like only a true sociopathic meat lover could. This was a resounding victory on the matter on nutrition. We have triumphed today! Those coward vegans will forever fear the name R. Giskard! Is something like that how you imagined insulting a baby would make you come across? Because, to me, it just made you look like a taint licking dingleberry. And Dee, you're lovable in the way you support R Giskard. And by lovable, I mean homely. Get a room, you two.
I am the host, not the guest in this show. I do not claim (rigidly or flexibly) that veganism is unhealthy. I think that veganism requires some very careful balancing to get sufficient nutrients. But then, that's true of any diet for healthiness! Where I stand is that there is no one right way to eat. Our genetics & our heritage's native foods are big factors on what we can *assimilate*. People whose heritage is the tropics will thrive on very different foods from those in the far north.
R. Giskard has been asking for an idealized vegan menu. I'm curious about the same. Not down to the portion sizes, but just a sense of what foods can be included in a vegan diet. I've been reading about the downside of many foods which, if eliminated, make for a small set of choices for a vegan. (In addition to all processed foods, I'm thinking of gluten, fructose, vegetable (seed) oils, and unfermented soy).
Joshie Matthews I'm not interested in bashing vegans. As I've told you before, people make their own diet choices. I think the jury is out on veganism (in terms of health), just as the jury is out (but coming in quite negative) on gluten -- both very recent arrivals in human diet. As you know, I'm interested in sustainability -- what will sustain human health for the long run, for many many generations. Based on my nutritional research, and my own explorations with diet, I choose to be ketogenic (fat-burning). But I have friends who are vegans. A new friend who is vegan eats mostly processed foods. I'm interested to learn from other vegans what a he might eat for maximum nutrition -- not the processed foods, which aren't healthy for anybody.
***** Lives in the SAME UNIVERSE as all of us.Its just some of us, let our emotions blind us to the truth.She tells the truth.Whether you choose to accept it, is up to you.
***** Her comments are factual.I have researched them.Also most of her points are logical.Like I said, detach emotion as it becomes clear.Unfortunately, vegans are incapable of doing so.
Jazz Man You don't need to be a scientist to merely regurgitate proven research,which is what she is doing.I have researched her claims.Apart from the fact that her opinions are logical and difficult to refute, IF you can detach emotion,you will find she is correct. Whether you choose to accept it.Is up to you.Or you and your fellow vegans can simply reject reality and insert your own version.
I've met lots of vegans. None of them are a picture of health. I've also met a bunch of people on atkins/keto. They are a lot healthier. I'll keep my meat, thanks.
hahahaha the only thing you have to do is look for the #vegan tag on instagram and look at vegans and how they are healthier than the average person, so thanks to the internet your anecdotal "proof" can suck a butt, fuck you.
It's weird how meat eaters know so many vegans, especially unhealthy ones...... I've been vegan for 5 years, and i'm the only vegan I know, most people I meet are vegetarians.......And i guess we can just completely disregard the 100s of millions of sick westerners who are scoffing pills every day to keep them alive......Because that's inconvenient to your anti vegan narrative................
Vegans have a 15% less chance of dying than meat eaters. The average life expectancy in America is about 80 years old. So that means vegans will potentially live into their early 90s on average. Good day.
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Why so many dislikes?? you guys know that vegan is not the diet that is most natural to humans it's common sense and research corroborates this... I love you vegan/vegetarians your heart is in the right place but your methods are wrong.
Caresse Dansée This is purely scientific... Your inability to understand science because you're an idiot uneducated vegan doesn't mean this is unscientific.
@@misskai8158 Actually, most poop is the result of indigestible plant matter, mostly fibre. Carnivores produce roughly ten times less poop than a regular person.
I wonder if this lady has looked into perma-culture related methods of farming like hugelkultur and forest farming. I have watched videos where deserts have become forests because of people reintroducing life into those areas.
I switched to a Vegan Diet 7 months ago. I have never had any problems with my diet. My iron levels, blood pressure and calcium levels are way better than before. I eat minimal processed foods and consume primarily whole foods. I've been healthier than I ever have been. My acne is cleared up, my bowel motions are amazing, I have more energy and I don't feel sick. My Mum and I look so much younger and healthier now. It's great. It's not possible for us to have lived on a meat diet. All the evidence points towards a plant based diet as whole foods are more stable and secure. You can eat 100% fruits, vegetables, legumes and beans and live. You can't live on 100% Meat and Dairy Products. You need phytonutrients, and carbohydrates form 40 - 60% of our diet as I've learned from University. You don't need a high amount of protein, you only need around 10 - 15% which can be easily consumed in plant based foods.
Joshie, you suggested a month ago that someone interview me. (I can't get the Reply feature to work on that comment). I was interviewed last spring -- not about personal aspirations but my view on the state of the world. Peak Moment episode 235, "Living with the Predicament." Living with the Predicament
I'm on page 112 of the book; I really think it's extremely well-written and I agree with just about all I've read so far. I can see why vegetarians and vegans are totally up in arms about this book though. But you know, just because you don't want to hear this doesn't mean it isn't true and it sure doesn't mean that she wasn't qualified to write it; I'd say she did some thorough research of her own before she wrote this book. I love the book and I think it's definitely on point. Her ideas about what we really need are right. I can imagine though how hard it is for someone who's vegan to read this with an open mind.
now I've read the book...i agree with her naming of problems related to monocrops and some of her other ideas for sure...but then she starts getting way too extreme for me!!! Way too extreme!
Lierre should be respected for her bravery in telling the truth, another vegan woman who blogged that she had ceased to be vegan because of her health was not only accused of lying and not having proof of her health, but also threatened with murder and rape. Does this not feel at all familiar? Men telling us that we cannot trust the intuition of our bodies, our ancestral knowledge? Haven't we had about 400 years of Male "experts" telling us to "shut up, your'e mental, do you want to be locked up or burnt?" if we tell the truth around healing and our health and our Knowing.
The picture about hunter gatherers is being distorted here. They did not live as long as we do hence some diseases did not have time to show. They also did not have meat every single day during the year (don't forget the GATHERERS part), they often went hungry, while we do not. They had high energy expenditure in comparison to us and they consumed wild plants, much richer in phyto-nutrients, often rather bitter and having certain protective effect on our health, not that abundant in our modern fruits and vegetables bred for higher palatability. Starch based diet, on the other hand, promotes growth of certain strains of good bacteria in our intestines, protecting the gut lining from cancer, which, on the other hand, is enhanced by phenolic and sulphide compounds in the gut when on high animal protein diet, especially from processed meat. I would be interested to find out more details about the dietary recommendations of this lady and her own diet.
I'm personally not vegetarian but if you are a vegetarian it's not wrong at all like this woman is claiming. Vegetarians can have complete proteins by combining incomplete proteins together such as beans, rice, lentils etc...You can receive the proper nutrition when you are a vegetarian. This lady needs to take a nutrition class because you can recieve vitamins and minerals from plant sources. Also your body was not made to digest certain meats anyway. This lady has no clue what she's talking about. Her statement is false
You're missing the real vegetarian protein problem. You can mix protein sources and get a proper amino acid spectrum... on a spreadsheet. But once you figure in the fact that many of those AA's are locked up in tough plant proteins which can't be digested by us, you see that the vegans face another protein problem for which there is no obvious solution. I guess maybe if they soak their protein sources in ethanol for a few hours before consumption it might unlock them. But that's a lot of booze per day, if you ask me.
R. Giskard Honestly that's your opinion but not all humans can digest meat properly. If you took a nutrition class you would have learned how you can be a healthy vegetarian.
I extend the same offer to you that I do any vegetarian who claims a vegetarian diet to be healthful. Provide me a 24 hour all plant meal plan which does not depend upon supplement pills, hypodermic needle injections, or artificially fortified food. I'll analyze it, compare it to the RDA's and the EAR's, and we can discuss the results. You might want to scan the threads under this vid to see how various vegetarians have tried to evade putting up a concrete menu for analysis. They're all afraid to do so, you see, because they know that any all plant menu they put up is going to have problems even at the level of essential nutrients. Even before we get to the concepts of conditionally essential nutrients, and optimal values as opposed to the bare minimum EAR values. If you think this is just "opinion", then take it out of that realm by posting a concrete vegetarian menu which we can evaluate objectively. All vegetarians whom I have challenged (and there are many) have been too afraid to respond. I, myself, have already posted a 24hr omnivorous menu plan of high nutrient density foods here, along with an objective analysis of nutritional content. Why are you so afraid to do so? Because you know how bad vegetarianism will end up looking if you do. Take a course in nutrition. You'll soon learn your folly.
"Killing an animal is hard; digestion one is easy. Killing a plant is easy; digesting one is hard" - John Durant, The Paleo Manifesto, quoted by Dr. Michael Eades, author of Protein Power It may appear that digesting plants is easy -- but assimilating their nutrients can be another question. Many have phytic acid or other ways to dissuade animals from eating them (e.g., you need to soak seeds and nuts to reduce these.).
Logan Smith Thank you, Logan. You invited me on several years ago. It took awhile to get there -- I'm just not able to keep up with all the social media. I need a kindly mentor to teach and help me prioritize activities on G+, FB, and T.
I was vegan for 3 weeks but stopped because I became a fundamentalist picking on people who ate meat. Life consumes life for life. Always has always will. Every lifeform is sentient and has feelings. So if vegans are truly against harming animals, what about the insects you walk on or hit with your cars? Regenerative animal and plant agriculture is the healthiest for the planet. .
After 30 years being a vegetarian I still like what she is saying. We need to change what we do...factory farming has got to stop. Thank you for radical thinking.
This is why the vegans are freaking about this book!!! ---"The aspect of this book, that makes it so important and controversial, is Keith's attempt to point out the hypocrisy of the moral stand that vegetarians rely on. The quasi-religious belief that killing animals for food is wrong. This is the one that will push the buttons and get the reaction, but after being a vegetarian for 28 year's myself it was a position that I had come to realise was both false and blinkered. When I chose plant proteins over animal protein I was responding to the childish and immature emotional prejudice towards large mammals. I didn't want to kill a cow so I could live. To maintain this I had to ignore the facts that Keith drives home in this book - when we shift our diets to soy instead of free-range steak we condemn another acre of biologically diverse pasture to the plow. For each cow thus saved from the chop by our misguided vegan principles, we destroy the lives and habitats of millions of those less charismatic organisms - wild plants, fungi, insects, worms, nematodes and the whole irreplaceable ecosystem within the soil. Hardly moral is it? Indefensible in fact. Hence why the vegans are baying for blood, and Keith deserves an accolade." reveiw from Amazon
You can fit the population of the world in just a few counties on Florida. Fact of the matter is, this garden is plenty big enough. The only reason people have any food shortages or are stuck eating chemically ridden food is simply because of laziness. There are millions of acres that have nothing more than grassy beautiful landscapes. Well let me tell you something, those big grassy yards are the problem, they provide nothing to sustain life. People have chosen to mow instead of sow and now they reap their reward. It's unfortunate that our bodies cannot survive on grassy yards so we must reply on mass production to feed us. No... It's not some corporations fault, it's our own, we choose to be lazy and the product of laziness has always been bad health.
I love her. She's so down-to-earth and realistic; Her scope is so holistic and her conclusions are so balanced. Well beyond her time, her books will be referenced in the far future when most books and their authors that we know today are long forgotten.
An EX- Vegan received Death and Rape threats ----" The most frequent theme of the many death threats I received was that my family members and my companion animals should be killed in front of me in the way that factory farmed animals are killed. There were also threats of sexual violence made against me, which is a common silencing tactic used against women. It was also disturbing to see that not one prominent vegan blogger (many of whom I had considered friends) came out to stand against this and call for a reasonable, respectful dialogue."
Women need the freedom and space to communicate to each other that a vegan diet may not be adequate for their health, fertility, and health and IQ of their future children.
This Vegan culture of ridiculing, threatening, accusing of mental problems, shaming/blaming those ex vegans who are brave enough to tell the truth and come out in public that the vegan diet made them ill, is WRONG. How many more women are just keeping quiet with illness/infertility or quietly eating animal products? We don't need and shouldn't tolerate these petty, bullying facist vegan tactics, what we Need and should encourage is an open, honest, respectful exchange of truthful information.
Many vegan commenters here wish to discredit ex vegan women " she is mad, fucking retarded, she's mental, she's got no proof, she's got no tests, she's not a doctor, she's not a scientist" Well, you just look like little, petty, small minded, censoring bullies. You cannot silence these women and they are spoiling your pretty fiction of the perfect, " Healthy? vegan Diet".
letthemeatmeat.com/post/3141542244/interview-with-an-ex-vegan-tasha
I wouldn't be that worried about the rape threats since most Vegans have erectile dysfunction
Early man ate meat. You want to be natural - eat meat, roots and berries. Vegetarianism is a nice idea and factory farming is bad....but everything she says is true.
the problem of meat is that it's energeticaly least profient type of food, you can get. In other words, planet would be exhausted of energy, water, and resources, like 10x more, than when you eat little-to-no meat. This is, why it's better to not go paleo, rather save energy, waste, and resources for something else. As vegetarian, you can live heathly life for sure. And also, when you eat only small portions of meat, lets say one fish a week. That is prooven by long term studies, that vegetarians have less problems, than "regulary" eating people. So, for sure, we should not eat "meat, roots and berries". That would destroy the planet. It is madness. Also, you cannot produce so much "heathly" meat, as they were it , basically from wild animals. There are acumulating toxins, heavy metals and pesticides and antibiotics in animals, more than in plants. It would be utopia, to feed 8 bilion people of wild animals, or extra heathly meat (which is harder to produce). Completly madness. You would need only 10% of the fertile grounds, to feed them from vegetation. This is, why we need to find way to vegetarianism, the more population there will be, the more important it will be.
Laurel Long-- ex animal rights activist, on meeting Lierre and the effect of The Vegetarian Myth on her;
"I was experiencing major depression that did not improve no matter what I did.
I met Lierre Keith at a small feminist gathering on the East coast several years ago. She encouraged me to eat meat, assuring me I would feel better. Since I had nothing else to lose, I got up all my courage and tried it. As if by magic, I felt better than I had in well over a decade. The change was absolutely incredible, and a few months after eating meat again, I went back to school full time. That was a year and a half ago.
I recently interviewed an ex-vegan who started eating meat again after reading The Vegetarian Myth. Why is that book so effective?
Well, I started eating meat prior to actually reading Keith’s book. However, the book is effective because the analysis of agriculture just plain makes sense. Humans were never designed to eat grains and, indeed, it is grain consumption that is destroying the landbase! If the book wasn’t powerful, vegans wouldn’t be making a huge fuss over it.
Why did you leave veganism? I never thought I would stop being vegan, much less eat meat. However, I was experiencing major depression that did not improve no matter what I did. Someone I deeply cared about refused to talk to me anymore because of how negative I was. I couldn’t even go to school or hold down a job. I became more and more depressed and had to drop out of college.
After this, I was never able to fully get back into the AR community again, no matter how much I tried, because I simply did not have the stamina.
Do you think veganism was connected to your depression?
Absolutely. For the first several months I was vegan, I really did feel good. However, I soon became severely depressed. When I started eating meat, the depression vanished."
letthemeatmeat.com/post/448973503/interview-with-an-ex-vegan-laurel-long
Being vegan for a few months resulted in a cranky attitude and weight gain and lethargy. Feel great after adopting a more LCHF/ Paleo approach!
Imagine how good that first steak tasted after not eating meat for 20 years.
She hit the mark when she said, "these people who eat their traditional diets." Here is the thing, and this has been a hot topic on TED before, but people do evolve to consume what is available to them naturally. What we eat today is not as natural as we wish it were, vegan or animal based, we have altered our food supply completely. Nothing is as it once was, and it is unfortunate. Realistically, our ancestors ate what was easiest for them to find, be it through hunting or foraging. In tropical climates, that might include a lot of fruit. In colder climates, that might include a lot of animal flesh and root vegdtables. I wish people would just be more realistic. No one diet is perfect for everyone, so test things out for yourself, and see what leaves you feeling the best. If you are concerned the choices you make are not 100% healthy, that you may have depleted your body of some nutrient, consult a physician for testing. It isn't as difficult a task as so many try to make it out to be.
People may evolve to eat what is available to them, but only to the point of where they are successful enough for survival. Evolution doesn't give a crap if you die of cancer or heart disease in your 40's, it only cares if you can live long enough to have children. That is why the Inuit who have lived isolated up north for over 10,000 years have the highest rates of heart disease of any population due to their high fat diets. Modern humans and our ancestors have spent the majority of our history eating fruits, vegetables, and starches, and every human being on earth is most healthy on a vegan diet.
I do not disagree with that, and in fact would have agreed with this statement had I read it elsewhere. However, my personal statement was geared more toward this guest speaker and her claim that indigenous peoples are so much healthier eating their native foods. People evolve, adjust, and frankly eat to survive. Indigenous peoples ate what was available to them, so they were as healthy as they could be for that area. Frankly, I don't buy into the belief that one diet fits everyone, but that each person needs to eat according to what leaves them feeling healthiest. I prefer a plant based diet with fish once in a while, no eggs, no dairy. That's me, but that would not work for even my own siblings.
habadashery2009
"That is why the Inuit who have lived isolated up north for over 10,000 years have the highest rates of heart disease of any population due to their high fat diets."
That is simply false as you use modern fast food Inuit data. Inuits living on there traditional 90%-99% meat/fish diet didn't even have heart diseases thay had also hardly cancer.
"People may evolve to eat what is available to them"
Meat has been available to Chimps as it did to humans. Humans have been eating meat since at least 2 million years.
"Modern humans and our ancestors have spent the majority of our history eating fruits, vegetables, and starches, and every human being on earth is most healthy on a vegan diet."
That is simply a big lie. A couple of scientific data who proves you wrong. Now provide me yours.
-"Evolving to Eat Mush": How Meat Changed Our Bodies NGC 2005
-The Hunting Apes:Meat Eating and the Origins of Human Behavior Craig B. Stanford 1999
-Early Humans Began Eating Meat Earlier Than Thought: Oldest Known Evidence of Anemia Caused by a Nutritional Deficiency 2012
-Meat, Cooked Foods Needed for Early Human Brain Christopher Wanjek, LiveScience Bad Medicine 2012
-Meat Eating Behind Evolutionary Success of Humankind, Global Population Spread, Study Suggests , sciencedaily 2012.
-"Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA): An Ancient Nutrient for the Modern Human Brain"Published: 10 May 2011
-Oldest Evidence of Stone Tool Use and Meat-Eating Among Human Ancestors Discovered: Lucy's Species Butchered Meat2010
-"New tolls, new food" Smithsonian.
celt130 NGC 2005
"Carnivorous humans go back a long way. Stone tools for butchering meat, and animal bones with corresponding cut marks on them, first appear in the ***fossil record*** about 2.5 million years ago." - LOL!
What a load of crap.
celt130 The Hunting Apes:
Meat Eating and the Origins of Human Behavior
Craig B. Stanford
There are many differing theories as to the causes of brain size increase - This is just ONE OF THEM.
Why would someone dislike this? You can disagree but in the end this what she end up with in her struggle between thinking and searching, we all do that and it’s good to share what you came up with and it’s all negotiable just so we can all gather information and thoughts and get closer to the right thing.
As she said, as a vegan "you don't want to look for information because you threaten who you are"
Same things applies to the vegans who come on here and listen to this. they re scared of hearing the truth
Ambient Wanderer it’s weird that people see that being vegan defines who someone is! It’s just a healthy choice they made, not a personality.
There's many vegans who make their own choices and respect people that still choose to eat meat, but on the other side their are extreme vegans who feel the need to push their ideas onto other people and shame those who decided to leave veganism. Some even go as far as never talking to their family again because they didn't want to go vegan. That's when it becomes like some sort of cult mentality.
Because vegans are a cult, and she is an apostate to them.
@@christopherl4249 Lies.
So, I painfully watched the entire 28 minutes of this video and Lierre Kieth did not present a SINGLE counter argument to a vegan/vegetarian diet.
1. Name one nutrient that is ONLY found in meat that cannot be found in a plant-based diet.
2. Name one disease or deficiency that is ONLY found among vegans.
3. Plant protein IS digestible. Animal protein actually makes your body acidic and messes up your pH levels.
4. Did she really say vitamin A, D, and K is not found in plants? Vitamin D you get from the sun and the rest of the vitamins and minerals ARE found in plants.
5. A vegan diet has been found to prevent and sometimes reverse diabetes and cancer, not cause it.
6. The Eskimos may not have got cancer a lot, but they sure did get osteoporosis and had a very short life span.
7. How come the countries with the highest consumption of meat and dairy also have the highest rate of osteoporosis?
8. The human brain runs on glucose (sugar), NOT fat.
9. The U.S. alone could feed 800 million people with grain that livestock eat.
10. Meat has 0 fiber -- have fun being on the crapper for awhile.
I love to hear Lierre Kieth (who is only an author, not a doctor or nutritionist) or ANYBODY please try to refute and these 10 points. Otherwise you meat eaters are all just talking out your ass and are just trying to finding excuses to justify your meat eating habits and the slaughter of 58 BILLION animals per year!
B12
DHA
So can you get B12 in vegan diet? can you get DHA? [just to mention 2 vital nutrients!]with proof please
Dee Smith How come meat eaters are just as deficient in B12 as vegans? B12 is naturally found in the dirt, not animals. So the only reason animals have B12 is because when they eat the plants (with that little bit of dirt) they get B12. The only reason people get B12 deficient today is because we now live in such a clean and sterile environment. Many years ago B12 was not an issue. Everybody should take a B12 supplement if their levels are low, not just vegans.
As for DHA, your body creates it on its own. The body can convert ALA into EPA and DHA -- ALA is found in soy, walnuts, flaxseeds, hempseed, chia seed, ect.
Did you honestly think I haven't heard these arguments before?
Really? Animals have B12 either because they have a rumen or they use coprophilia to absorb the bacterially produced B12 from the gut, I.E they eat their own poo, a little bit of dirt no sorry...and yes vegans are deficient.
Abstract
Background: Vegetarians have a lower intake of vitamin B-12 than do omnivores. Early and reliable diagnosis of vitamin B-12 deficiency is very important.
Objective: The objective was to investigate vitamin B-12 status in vegetarians and nonvegetarians.
Design: The study cohort included 66 lactovegetarians or lactoovovegetarians (LV-LOV group), 29 vegans, and 79 omnivores. Total vitamin B-12, methylmalonic acid, holotranscobalamin II, and total homocysteine concentrations were assayed in serum.
Results: Of the 3 groups, the vegans had the lowest vitamin B-12 status. In subjects who did not consume vitamins, low holotranscobalamin II (< 35 pmol/L) was found in 11% of the omnivores, 77% of the LV-LOV group, and 92% of the vegans. Elevated methylmalonic acid (> 271 nmol/L) was found in 5% of the omnivores, 68% of the LV-LOV group, and 83% of the vegans. Hyperhomocysteinemia (> 12 μmol/L) was present in 16% of the omnivores, 38% of the LV-LOV group, and 67% of the vegans. The correlation between holotranscobalamin II and vitamin B-12 was weak in the low serum vitamin B-12 range (r = 0.403) and strong in the high serum vitamin B-12 range (r = 0.769). Holotranscobalamin II concentration was the main determinant of total homocysteine concentration in the vegetarians (β = −0.237, P < 0.001). Vitamin B-12 deficiency led to hyperhomocysteinemia that was not probable in the upper folate range (> 42.0 nmol/L).
Conclusions: Vegan subjects and, to a lesser degree, subjects in the LV-LOV group had metabolic features indicating vitamin B-12 deficiency that led to a substantial increase in total homocysteine concentrations. Vitamin B-12 status should be monitored in vegetarians. Health aspects of vegetarianism should be considered in the light of possible damaging effects arising from vitamin B-12 deficiency and hyperhomocysteinemia.
ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/1/131.long
I waste eating some junk 25 years ago when I changed, cold-turkey into a vegan diet.
It was the best!!!
Lots of energy. No need to sleep but 6,7 hours. But it only lasted a year. Little by little I regressed. Was the problem the "vegan" or was I eating way to much fruit?.
I changed the fruit and felt better. Gave up on vegan and would eat only a little bit of meats and yogurt.
Fast forward to 2010.
I had erectile dysfunction, premature ejaculation, etc. Visit a vegan nutritionist and used vegan lifestyle for a couple years. Nothing. Started working hard and ended up looking pathetic. But I wanted to believe vegan is the moral way to survive. There are many vegans who are great examples.
Finally somebody I looked like shit. I started eating a lb of meat a month and two eggs a day. Felt better, but not great.
Finally another nutritionist told me to eat 4oz meat everyday, two eggs, bone soup, and two spoons of whey.
Three weeks into it, I can seen the difference.
So in my heart I want to be vegan. But I have to choose between either that or dying sooner than I should.
For a long time I reached the conclusion meat is not the real culprit.
Eaten in extreme moderation, like for health, instead of for pleasure, it just can't kill us like so many people claim.
The real problem,
in my humble opinion, is all the processed junk we eat around the meat.
All the grains and sugar.
+Francisco Navarro I've tried to be vegan on numerous occasions. I think it's an admirable goal to want to reduce animal suffering. However, no matter what we do, something dies for us to live. It's just nature. I have Hashimoto's disease and got very ill from vegan foods. I'm intolerant to gluten and soy and the vegan "meats" literally made me vomit. I've determined that it's probably a lot better just to stick to whole foods: Veggies, fruits, organic dairy, grass fed/wild meat if possible, backyard eggs, because at least I'm not supporting the large concentrated feed lots, and I feel a lot better.
Everything she says is true about insulin carbs and protein and cholesterol and how the body functions chemically. I have been doing LCHF for years and ever once and a while I regress to a normal diet and allergies come back I get sick tired bad digestion bad bowl movement body fat freaks out. Mind you I am a competitive bodybuilder who trains others to get in peak shape in 16 weeks to get on stage. The funny thing is the LCHF diet produces reproducible results week by week in everyone I train and in my self this a key component when dealing with science. It's just hard to explain how eating fat will make you lean even when the science is right there. I just wrote up a diet for a guy who works with my wife he lost 20 in 6 weeks eating tons of fat and protein and his cals were like 2500 to start no need to starve your self. He had doubts but he gained muscle and his abs are showing now and text me every week thanking me for changing his life.
Kat Kamp You are doing a great service to humanity. My wife never cave in to my persuading her to become vegan. She is all right. However she was diagnosed with low thyroid function, not sure if the name Hashimoto applies, though. I learned some veggies from the broccoli family are not good for her. They will not be tolerated by you either, I think. Unfermented soy is a "NO, NO.!!!!"
Non organic unfermented dairy is no, no.
Raw fermented would be the best.
I've learned that organic iodine is greatly needed for the thyroid. You may want to also consider eating some apricots everyday for at least six months. Dr. Marshall claims they antagonize the inorganic iron stuck in the liver from years of fortified white junk (I mean flour).
Sorry. I got carried away!!!
Me? as of now I'm doing great. I still have some more to go. But my muscles are feeling like meat again. For years they felt like jello.
I'm kidding.
WTF? You had erectile dysfunction that was cured by eating meat? The crap that's in animal foods is what clogs the arteries, including penile ones. Of course, many people go on a vegan diet to reverse heart disease, but a low-fat, whole food, vegan diet will give you rock hard erections as well. You just have to remember to eat a larger volume of food for energy because low-fat plant foods are not nearly as calorie dense as animal foods.
I'm a 50 year old vegan who has to wear jean shorts at a beach. If I wear shorts that are loose and thin cloth I'd have some unsightly bulges showing whilst around my partner in her swimming clothes.
Clyde Rembrandt WTF Clyde, can't you read?
When did I say my ED was cured by eating meat?
ED like most health challenges is caused by more than on factor. Anyone who is spending anytime searching, with an open mind, will come to the conclusion toxins are a BIG, BIG factor.
I returned to vegan for almost two years and didn't feel any effect. Didn't it help at all? I'm sure it id prepare the soil to when I found a detox tea that seemed to fix the problem. But I didn't understand the need for protein, if I had entered a different phase in my life.
If you don't need to eat meat to have a great sex life, I congratulate you. I'm happy for you.
But stop using your testosterone to block your understanding, please.
Our bodies are dealing with different things. Some people can be vegetarians. Some can't. I can't. I tried it. I would like to still be one. But I can't. If you can, please open your ears and realize I'm not you. Others are not you.
You know, each of us is experimenting with our own bodies, and researching, to find the diet that works for us. What would happen if commenters focused on what they find works in their life, rather than discrediting others? I think we'd learn a lot more from one another about living healthier lives.
That would be great if vegans would stop hounding meat eaters. But they won't leave it alone.
***** Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from criticism. Eat a hamburger, because you are clearly loosing brain cells.
Thank for proving my point!
I don't mind a debate or even constructive criticism, but I draw the line when it come below the belt insults. Show a vegan an inconvenient fact that their lifestyle is unhealthy and they reply with sophomoric responses like accusing us of eating like maggots.
Grow up, eat a steak and get some protein, amino acids omega 3's Coq10 and other nutrients for the brain only found in meat because it's obvious that you are sorely lacking!
***** Ha, ha, ha... ignorant child.
Absolutely devastating - you could hear it in the host’s reactions. We really owe it to ourselves to work towards that future of extensive agriculture where humans enjoy the production of healthy ecosystems rather than the pure destruction today.
I am Vegetarian from my mother's womb, I have never put a piece of roten corpse inside my body. I'm a healthy person I weight normal and have energy just as every one else. In my opinion meat eating is below human dignity
@Aroncare I feel so sorry for you. Hopefully you take B12 supplements. I used to be plant based and I am thrilled with how much better I feel eating mostly meat now. I am so grateful to the animals that die so I can get proper nourishment. There is no life without death.
LIERRE KEITH for President.
She's right. The human body was not designed to eat grass...we produce no cellulase. I have adopted a mostly fish and steamed vegetable diet and have eliminated most grains out and feel better than I have in years.
That's why you don't see us munching on the company lawn every lunch hour :P
I was vegan for 14 years and had to revert back to meat diet last month for exactly the reasons Lierre is talking about. I experienced and felt all this first-hand even before hearing about Lierre. As an ex-vegan who still loves vegans for what they are standing for, it's still hard for me to accept what we are at this time and never thought we were so dependent on meat protein, but people like you Lierre (having gone through what you went through) keep me going now and are close to my heart, and are helping with this transition back to previous lifestyle, but with obviously some differences, taking the last 14 years as a vegan in my heart as well. You're one of the few who really understands Lierre. I know some will find it hard to believe, but when you feel this as strongly as I have after coming close to death, and really feeling the difference with meat protein, it's hard to ignore. I'm hoping a chicken and fish diet will suffice, and we can do without eating other animals.
I applaud your change for the better but ruminant meat is necessary for optimal health and healing. Best wishes
If u think it's ethical healthy to consume meat think again! Very healthy vegaterian here vegans go a bit to far sometimes like adding climate change to the agenda
Okay, but did you get on Cronometer to find out what your "vegan" diet was lacking, or, did you get a comprehensive blood test from a qualified nutritionist to discover?. My guess is, your vegan diet was low in iron, zinc, B12, and other nutrients that made you feel awful. As as longtime vegan there have been times where I was not making the best whole food choices and my nutrition suffered. It was not the vegan "diet" but MY poor food choices.
My primary motivation for videoing this conversation with Lierre was to look at the unsustainability of monocrop agriculture (primarily for grains). Just read today that 75% of food crop species have gone extinct in the last 100 years. That's a lot of important bio-diversity we will/would need in future -- to reduce reliance on pesticides, herbicides, irrigation. I salute people who are experimenting with food forests in their region. As Lierre said, we need perennial polycultures rather than monocrop agriculture.
Comment threads are becoming one big mess here, comments are not shown at all. There should be 169 comments in this thread alone! Is something wrong with your settings or is it my internet connection?
peakmoment Fine, but veganism/vegetarianism isn't the root cause of monocrop agriculture. Perhaps you should have named it something different than the "Vegetarian Myth" if that really was your goal. A lot of grain that is produced also goes to livestock that then gets slaughtered for their meat, so neither you or Lierre have any sustainable arguments.
Arvin Vaziri Half true.. Most people on my side dont think animals should be fed grains. We think they should be grass fed. Grass based agriculture with grazing animals that can be used for food is the way to go. Grains and vegetables are secondary and the way they are grown currently leads to desertification of the planet...
You dont know what you are talking about
Some guy222 You think your plastic shoes, air flown sugar snap peas, quinoa, wild rice, soy ice cream, agave syrup, imported miso, etc etc etc DOESN'T hurt the environment?
little bit naive mate...
Has anyone mentioned her interview on kpfa where she admitted to binging on eggs and dairy every chance she got while being a "vegan"? Or that all vegans eat beef once a week??? Was she really a vegan or a hipster pretending to be a vegan?
***** Maybe she thought she was a vegan but eating eggs and dairy disqualifies her from being one.
*****
What a low, hateful criticism,
what if people were saying you had mental health "issues"?
If she did that it is quite clear it was because the vegan diet was not nourishing her at all and so she gave in to her natural cravings for the food one really needs to thrive. I ate like a vegan as an experiment and found one of the things I craved most was eggs and liver. Many people who try a vegan diet will find they do not thrive at all and they get weaker and sicker. One ignores deficiencies from the vegan diet at ones own peril. The vegan diet is very dangerous. I have seen first hand the damage it does.
Sylvia King
suuuure sure sure. Let me give you an alternative story about somebody else to show you how ridiculous this statement is. "The reason he was binging on Xanax is because he was missing coke, he wanted to stay clean and many people who were addicted to coke will find they will not thrive without it and get weaker and sicker from their addiction. They begin shaking sweating and it's just easiest go back to coke, or pretend you're clean and binge on other drugs instead of making excuses". That's what it is EXCUSES. If you set your mind to something and follow the guidelines and make sure you don't give in to your cravings vegan diet is good enough to sustain a human being. What she did, as she admitted in this video, she was trying to impress somebody and hence her thinking she was a vegan where in fact she was just pretending.
Sylvia King i am living proof against what you said.. hello :D LOOOL!
Without global delivery of food there would be no vegans. Could you live on what only grows locally for the whole year without salting and/or pickling the shit out of it.
WOW This might be the vid that Pushes me to STOP eating bread! Im gunna start eating for survival & health & not for the pleasure...& eventually the Pleasure will be in the health!
Bakki Boo well said!
I was a vegan for 14 years for ethical reasons, deteriorated slowly over that time and almost dead twice in the end. I tried everything. I was still stubborn and kept on vegan diet. But felt a real difference after trying animal products again (reluctantly to prove animal products wouldn't help me), and health was restored amazingly. I really FELT this, all the theory she talks about may be just words to many who haven't felt this, and many vegans will always find an argument to defend their way of life (like we did), and you can find an opposing argument to anything if you try hard enough (random quotes/data that don't explain it all ultimately, but just oppose statements to desperately defend your position), but when you actually feel the effects first-hand, it's no longer just unproven theory. And sadly it may require vegans to "crash" like we have in order to finally accept what we are and need. We'll just have to find other ways to continue that dream we share with vegans, to eliminate suffering, respect all living beings, and make the world a better place. Just in a more gradual and realistic way. Our intentions are still there, and we'll succeed ultimately with those intentions in our hearts.
I'm on page 179 of this book; I'm kind of surprised that I'm not seeing more comments about how incredibly well written this book is! I'm mesmerized by it; I've taken breaks from reading to do other things like work and run errands, but if I just had all free time I wouldn't stop reading it. Lierre writes incredibly well; very passionate about what she's discovered. I love it. Of course I came to it with a very open mind because I haven't lived a vegetarian or vegan life. I admire the great intentions of people who are vegetarian or vegan. But this book really resonates as true based on other books and other research I've read. I guess it is controversial to other people; to me, I just keep nodding my head because I know she's right.
and then I checked out her other videos and realized she endorse underground militant violence in order to fight the powers that be and end civilization to save the planet!! Oh boy...too extreme for me! the planet matters more than the people because of "overshoot"....I did like her veggie myth book in the first half but I hate her underground ideas...lots of people would get hurt that way.
I was only half way through when I wrote this...I didn't know about her militant underground stance!
This ladies and gentlemen is why we don't get our information about life on a cereal box
Totally agree. Stop the subsidies and restore the pasture lands.
What I don't understand is that she's basically saying that vitamin A cannot be obtained from plants, at all, even though every source I find says that provitamin A gets converted into Vitamin A from vegetables.
I'm not really sure what she means by that statement?
I am entirely clueless about biochemi, but this seems very clear and easy to back up, unless I've missed something.
She's clueless. Vitamin d also comes from the sun and vitamin K2 is in natto.
Different people convert beta carotene into vitamin a at different rates. Some convert it well and others poorly.
I see a lot of vegan/vegetarians who were having a lot of health problems that alleviated or cleared up when they went to a keto/carnivore diet on various CZcams videos and comments on the Internet; however, I haven't read any keto/carnivore dieters who were having major health issues that cleared up after they converted to a vegetarian/vegan diet.
The issue is they are still mentally ill thinking THEY will change the planet and the nature of people....literal communists...even her in this video says having less people is better instead of saying let nature take it's course... ignoring that abundance creates abundance... since she lives out nature and in urban hellhole...
Of course, because not all omnivores eat a wholesome "diet", nor do all vegans. If a vegan is not consuming enough iron through beans, is low in iodine, folate, zinc, that can make anyone feel bad. My vegannism has improved over the MANY years because I took the time to understand what to add to what I ate. Blood tests also help to see what
ius missing, but most ex's did not take the time to do that.
They eat what they want and ignore the rest. You seem to ignore the fact that the EX"S" grew up as an omnivore, they did not come from a vegan upbringing. So, when stressed and feeling poorly, they revert to what they knew.
MY blood test revealed I was low in D3, despite taking it for 2 years, and that I avoided grains yet needed the B vitamins within them. Lyme was also part of the whole issue.
I love the alfalfa spike in her hair.
It's gorgeous
" I received an outpouring of emails from fellow ‘vegan’ bloggers, who told me in confidence that they weren’t really vegan ‘behind the scenes’. They ate eggs, or the occasional fish, or piece of meat, all to keep themselves healthy, but were too scared to admit to it on their blogs. I even received emails from two very prominent and well respected members of the vegan AR community. One a published and much loved vegan cook book author, the other a noted animal rights blogger, their emails detailed their health struggles and eventual unpublicized return to eating meat. Many people sent me links to other vegans who had struggled with veganism related health problems and had been forced to return to eating animals and animal products, or had decided to stop following a vegan diet, such as: Raw Model, Debbie Does Raw, Daniel Vitalis, Sweetly Raw, Chicken Tender, The Non-Practicing Vegan, and PaleoSister, to name just a few. It was refreshing to know I wasn’t the only one suffering from this problem, and the more I heard, the more it seemed I wasn’t even in the minority."
curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1728051
What gets me, is that people automatically assume that vegetarians turn to flour and sugar in replace of meat. Maybe some due. But as a Vegan, I have non of these in my diet. It's the same with a meat diet. A meat diet introduces all meat foods, like fatty shredded beef, sausages, burgers, bacon which are usually on a BUN with flour and sugar dressings of some sort. So it's the place in the middle that really needs addressed. However, it's too easy to "slip-up" on a meat diet and "have a little restaurant food here and there". Then you are back in the diabetic/cancer/obesity game. Paleo must be VERY lean with all chard portions and fat cut off the edges and removed from the meat from every meal - very lean. Include grass-fed organic beef and free-range chicken meat. But it must be VERY clean (all the time) along with an organic whole food diet of vegetables. No boxed, packaged, flour, butter, sauces, fried, sugar, fast food, vending machine food, chips, and nothing except water to drink. If you follow this on a paleo diet, you are head of the game. Are some people healthier on a paleo diet then a vegan? Yes absolutely. Are some vegans on a healthier diet then paleo? Yes of course.
Why would you cut off fat? Its one of the joys of Paleo eating.
When I was vegetarian I ate a lot of sugar, but after I went on my master cleanse, I gave it all up.
Plus plant-based diets don't satisfy my stomach I don't feel full and I don't have the energy I feel crap and the other thing is I wind up on the toilet all day
Notice to commenters: I will delete comments that are bashing, name-calling, or flaming. Give us your personal experience, or reference some information that you find valuable. If you continue bashing, I will block you from the channel. I intend this forum to be a respectful discourse, which means commenters agree to disagree.
Sandra Barlow Lierre's assertions about commercial agriculture's being biocide (and leads to desertification) is supported by countless studies and just plain history (the middle east was once covered with forests). Ditto Her assertion that we need perennial polycultures rather than monocrops. That discussion was the primary focus of our conversation and why I interviewed her. Did you listen to those parts of the conversation?
I've been trying to reply to posts on here which plainly misunderstand the point that I have been making. For a start, I am not anti-meat eating. I am anti-sanctimonious preachers on either side of the debate who tell other people what is good for them. I don't care about factory farming, nor about the cows. Cows are pathetic. I just think videos like this are examples of precisley the type of high-and-mighty bigotry that both meat eaters and vegans are guilty of. I think Lierre is talking some sense that would help SOME people, some vegans are not in good shape, for whatever reason. But it is for THEM to decide, not HER. Some vegans are in fine shape. Patrik Baboumian, hey, vegan world record breaking strongman. Then there was the British sikh who completed a competitive marathon aged 100. He's a vegan too. There are all sorts, no one thing helps every person. I do get a sense that vegans overreact to criticism of their diets at times, but it's not about B12 deficiency. I have been vegan for 25 years and medically tested for B12 annually for the last 8, never any deficiency registered. I think some vegans sometimes react out of fear that all this might be right, but then I may be wrong. If you enjoy talking down to people, and want to post videos about what's bad for people, and what's killing the planet, have a go at smoking, or fracking, or proponents of nuclear power. Veganism is a fringe issue which concerns less than 1% of the world's population, most of whom are capable of deciding for themselves if they feel well or are fit, and if they need to revert back to a meat-based diet. But really, this video is so high-and-mighty-we-are-right-and-you-are-wrong-and-you-are-low-life that you have no right to complain that people post angry responses to it.
Agreed, although vegans can be very 'intimidating' at times. Not you, I've met vegans who, when they learn I am vegan and can't preach to me, grill me on which vitamins I take etc.
peakmoment I have lived in the Middle East, and yes, it's mostly desert. I've never heard anybody blame vegans for it though, I singly doubt there are more than a handful of vegans across the whole region. Vegans are mostly developed world inhabitants or Indians, where of course the desert is creeping uncontrollably through the monsoon regions and rainforests. Meanwhile, in Mongolia near us here, the vast Gobi Desert surely owes to the overcultivation of mung beans and quinoa plantations. In any case, the bit that struck me most about Lierre's claims was that 1 she was not really a vegan and 2 she claims that vegans eat beef, which really invalidates everything else she says about us.
Chris Trickett She doesn't really mean that vegans caused the desert. She means that agriculture over centuries (millenia?) in the area that used to be the fertile crescent which literally leeched the land of all its nutrients turning it into a desert. The vegan population now puts a comparable strain on the modern agriculture system in a more condensed time period.
I was a vegan for 14 years for ethical reasons, deteriorated slowly over that time and almost dead twice in the end. I tried everything. I was still stubborn and kept on vegan diet. But felt a real difference after trying animal products again (reluctantly to prove animal products wouldn't help me), and health was restored amazingly. I really FELT this, all the theory she talks about may be just words to many who haven't felt this, and many vegans will always find an argument to defend their way of life (like we did), and you can find an opposing argument to anything if you try hard enough (random quotes/data that don't explain it all ultimately, but just oppose statements to desperately defend your position), but when you actually feel the effects first-hand, it's no longer just unproven theory. And sadly it may require vegans to "crash" like we have in order to finally accept what we are and need. We'll just have to find other ways to continue that dream we share with vegans, to eliminate suffering, respect all living beings, and make the world a better place. Just in a more gradual and realistic way. Our intentions are still there, and we'll succeed ultimately with those intentions in our hearts.
I got sick eating a vegetarian diet. I just liked animals, so didn't eat to eat them. My pets never have any problem eating meat and those I took in that had lived outdoors would go after after birds like it's normal.
I'm a vegan, have been for 25 years but I don't care what people eat. It amuses me how riled people get about the subject. It's mostly meat eaters who go on about it endlessly, but vegans can be just as boring too. People eat meat, or they don't! If you feel the need to say anything else about it, even a single word, you probably have a lot more missing in your life than some random vitamin.
I DIED 40 TIMES WATCHING THIS VIDEO
Anthony Pearson That is a shit ton of lives.
+Anthony Pearson With such survival rate it's going to be hard to eliminate all 7 billions
Literally same
Good news. Die for the last time...
I have an auto-immune condition. Went vegetarian for 7 years in my 30's. Exacerbated my condition to its worst. On top of that, I have a student that's epileptic. The carb/starch/sugar paradigm wreaks havoc for many people. The original ketogenic diet was developed for kids with epilepsy. My student removed those plant products and saw real changes, as I have, too. My body LOVES the fats and proteins. I do some low-glycemic veggies, but mainly fats and protein. The ratio that works best for me fats to protein to carbs...
4 : 1 : 1
F : P : C
No vitamin A, K, E, fat, or protein in plants? How the hell did this women come so far as to publish a book? A 5 year old can google or ask their doctor where to get those vitamins, and google or the doctor will say kale, spinach, sweet potatoes, etc. 🙄 she lost all her credibility right there.
Fat soluble vitamins A, D, E, K are produced in animal bodies -- ours and others. Some people (elderly, children, those with chronic illness) may be unable to make these in sufficient quantity.
The precursors for vitamins A, D, E and K are found in plants.
Well time to go make yet another vegan 1300 calorie smoothie with every single vitamin and mineral my body needs! lol
Staggering to read the number of comments against Lierre. So sad, actually, that people are not taught critical thinking skills....
It is extremely sad how easily people are brainwashed! But it's not a pleasant thought that the government wants you to stay sick and really doesn't want to protect you. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
It's wierd that critical thinking gave me a different conclusion.
@@killerbean5006 Weird indeed.
I have seen many vegan girls/women get ill, hypoglycemia, chronic fatigue,cessation of periods,inability to conceive,insomnia, fibromalgia, M.E, depression, tiredness, etc. These symptoms often happening before the 20 year mark, I see no reason to doubt Lierre's truthfulness about her quite typical symptomology.
She made a lot of sense, from many of the things that i have read and learned about industrial revolution. I live in a country where a lot of the surplus products comes in and hurts the economy and the livelihood of farmers.
I was interested in what she had to say but vitamin A is found abundantly in carrots, vitamin E in sunflower seeds and almonds , vitamin D from sunlight. Has she researched this at all?
Lierre's claim surprised me, too. I dug deeper and learned that the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K are made within an animal body; the plant foods provide the elements but not the full vitamin. So her research is sound. (By the way, most people in the northern & southern latitudes can't get enough vitamin D from sunlight -- not enough hours in winter especially).
I suspect she has not.
Michael Groom She said the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K are not found in plants. Which they aren't. She didn't talk about plants having the building blocks, but that an animal body is where the complete vitamins are made. (That's in the book or you can research it online).
not sure about retinol but in terms of protein she forgets to mention that our body breaks all protein we eat whether plant or animal into its specific amino acids (building blocks) and then rebuilds its own with them.. getting the 'complete' protein she talks of is very misleading in this sense I feel,, protein is predominantly a plant product.. plants produce hundreds of them.. all of the essential amino acids all animals need (including all carnivores) must come from plants.. don't even bananas contain all 8 essential amino acids? I know that soy definitely does, as well as quinoa and several other grains.
that's not a showstopper. just add nutritional yeast to your diet. what nonsense
I was all with her until she started talking about feminism. She said we need to teach a girl how to read, women outnumber men in university. That was the dumbest thing I've heard.
Humans have a long and complex digestive system not a short digestive tract like she said early on in the video. Just thought I would clear that up so no one is confused.
Sarah Grimm In relation to what? proof?
Sarah Grimm just like omnivores
My sources are from Dr. John McDougall, Dr. Colin T. Campbell, Dr. Dean Ornish, and Dr.Caldwell Esselstyn
would you say the majority of biologists and anatomists classify humans as: herbivores carnivores or omnivores?
Sarah Grimm
Super biased veg/an proponent sources all.
I'm so confused. There's so much conflicting information, I don't even know what to believe any more.
Arab Dude Listen to your body. Do you feel sluggish after eating meat and dairy? Do you struggle on the toilet (without sounding rude, but it's got to be said!)? Do you feel satiated after eating meat? Can you chew meat raw? Can you hunt and kill your meat without a weapon? If so, how often can you eat? Do you feel full, satisfied and wholesome after eating vegetables and fruits? Are you ill? Do you get ill often? My only advice to you would be to watch "Udderly Amazing" by Walter Veith!
This women wasn't a vegan she use to eat beef once a week and pig out on cheese and eggs. A proper plant based diet is the best diet for the human body. It's been proven time and time again.
George LFC you make a time machine and tell that to the 6foot tall hunter gatherer humans
crackshack2 I get that you think you're a smart ass, but check out some anthropological evidence. It shows that humans rarely ate meat, i.e. when there was famine. You;re out of your depth.
Emma Webb
rarely eat meat? I eat meats all the time along with my vegetables.
Why? Do you know anything about history? You do know its much more expensive to graze animals and feed your population with beef, chicken.
Since the agricultural revolution has the majority of humanity has eaten more plants such as (uhhh durrrr) grains, yes! wheat, rice, etc.
WHY?! because farming enabled bigger populations to kill your enemies with, other societies that were still hunter and gatherers could not afford to field such numbers that farming societies could.
It was a function of suriviving against other groups. Not, oh humans prefer plants because thats all theyve ever eaten for the majority of civilization.
Her claim that we developed "large brains" as a result of meat consumption is misleading. Consuming meat meant we were consuming more NET CALORIES, which is what helped "grow" our brains. Our brains don't run on "meat," they run on glucose -- which, yes, you can get entirely from carbohydrates and plant-based sources.
We are just too many, no matter what we do If we keep reproducing like this.
@Rebel Life why do you think so?
Her information checks out to me. I am a former vegetarian who suffered physically from eating that way. The second i started eating meat again, i saw a huge improvement in my health. Then i went the other way and started a ketogenic diet ( high fat, medium protein, extremely low carbohydrate ) and dropped weight ridiculously fast and felt even better.
I do appreciate peak moment for sharing this. When i was a vegetarian, i downrated the video because i didn't like what i was hearing. It's funny to come back to it years later and click 'like'.
Thanks for your honesty, neptronix. Your experience sounds remarkably like mine, and even Lierre's. Changes in diet make take awhile to have their effect. I feel like being ketogenic has taken decades off my life -- energy levels, weight, emotional stability.
There's no one right diet for everyone. It seems Lierre's body was starving for quality fats. Your vegan diet seems to work well for you. You may have stronger genetics than other people, as well as eating a well-rounded vegan diet.
peakmoment
"There's no one right diet for everyone"
Out of curiosity, do you believe that smoking cigarettes may be for some people and not for others? In other words, status as a non-smoker may not be beneficial for everyone. I know plenty of people who claim they feel lousy without smoking and much better when they smoke every 90 to 120 minutes. Do you think that smoking could be like diet where there is no one-size-fits-all?
*****
Firstly, there is no vegan diet. One could have two cantaloupes and six peaches for breakfast or 25 oreo cookies with three cups of coffee for breakfast. Both options don't contain animal products, but I'll leave it as an exercise for you to find any distinguishing features between the two examples. I could generate many more examples as this one may be a little tricky.
The only nutrient that vegans should not rely on for their diet is vitamin B12. All other nutrients can be found in dietary sources that don't contain animal products. That being said, if you strongly oppose B12 supplements you probably shouldn't eat meat because the livestock industry uses 90% of all synthetically produced vitamin B12. Perhaps you could drink local pond or lake water and defecate in your garden as a B12 source if you really want to avoid industrially produced vitamin B12.
Basically, some people can squeak by while eating animal body parts, eggs, and milk from their nipples. But, many end up with heart disease, certain cancers, diabetes, fibromyalgia, and many other aliments that they could have avoided by avoiding animal products.
Animal eaters hate it when they hear about someone who grew up eating animal breast milks, eggs and body parts but now enjoy greater health because they omitted them from their diet. That being said, omitting animal products from one's diet is not for everyone. You'd probably need the research skills of an average 6th grader to distinguish between vegan junk foods and health foods.
*****
Here you go champ. See if you can spot the choline remark in this thread. You can do it if you try harder than most people would have to.
I guess it's just a coincidence that populations that have the lowest meat and dairy intake happen to be the healthiest and longest living people on earth, like those who live in Okinawa. Maybe we should tell them that they need to eat more meat like all the other people with obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and osteoporosis.
High fat diets cause obesity due to how fats are metabolized in the body. Fats almost always get deposited in adipose tissue after consumption unless one is in ketosis and starving. Sugars and carbohydrates on the other had either get used immediately by the trillions of cells in your body that need energy, get stored as muscle glycogen, or burnt off as body heat. I challenge you to find me a fat vegan who follows an 80/10/10 style diet. I myself follow the 80/10/10 diet and that is why I am able to easily build muscle and stay lean.
habadashery2009 How do you explain people getting obese or putting on fat consuming nothing but sugar when drinking commercial fruit juices? Is there a difference between consuming processed sugars while drinking commercial fruit juices as opposed to eating natural sugars in the form of whole fruit?
Do you think it's the juice that makes them fat, or is it everything else that they eat that contributes to weight gain and metabolic disorders? In other words eating a big mac and blaming a sugary drink for your weight gain doesn't make much sense. Refined sugars aren't nearly as good as naturally occurring sugars as they aren't processed well by the body due to their lack of presence of other nutrients and can cause inflammation. People who complain about weight gain when eating fruit or natural fruit juices should consider what else they have in their diet such as high fat foods, and if they have previously been starving which will cause temporary weight gain when switching to a proper diet.
If kids there are fat tell them to stop eating fish and chips and cut out processed foods including drinks that have corn syrup.
habadashery2009 Did you read the whole thing? I mention kids who come from a poor background who do not consume junk food.
Another woman who got ill on the Veg/vegan diet and got well on low carb- high fat
diet
Christine Cronau: The Fat Revolution
Disregard heart disease, diabetes, & tumor growth, then we can disregard veganism. Hunter-gatherers rarely had diseases of old age because they rarely lived to old age.
The research I've read indicates that if hunter-gatherers survived childhood and accidents, they lived as long as we do.
peakmoment I'm not sure what "as long as we do" _is_. How long does that mean? The US average? In any case, those who survived childhood, accidents & the infections involved, bad water, etc...were the healthiest of the bunch in the first place. And what exactly _did_ they die from when older? Something somehow _better_ than what people die from now?
peakmoment
that is true. Hunter and gathers do live to their 70s and 80s if they survived childhood and accident.
AmandaNerdBot Keep in mind that hunter-gatherers were mostly gatherers.
Im Yu But gatherers of what? Things such as shellfish, insects, or small mammals are categorized with the gathering label, generally, because one does not "hunt" them with a spear. As such, many animal products/calories may be misunderstood to be vegetation, if one assumes all animal eating is due to "hunting" and only vegetable foods are gathered.
sykeo123, you've been spewing trash, disrespect and expletives for long enough. Either clean up your act or I will ban you from this channel.
your video is totally biased, subjective and is propaganda
who are you talking to?
This woman is a failed vegan who is looking for excuses to stop being a vegan
I've forgot more about nutrition than she knows
so if your trying to ban me FUCK OFF
Nah didn't like this at all. Go ahead and eat your meat fats to get protein, but don't tell me as a vegan that I am sick and unhealthy. Also the interviewer seems extremely gullible in my opinion.
Lierre Keith is a person whose shown great courage in not only changing her course in life to essentially save her life as well "health wise, physically and consciously too, but to then go public and stay public while receiving constant threats from organizations and or the staunch supporters of vegetables, and fruits are all that is not only needed, but is what man should only consume as meat is a poison to the human body. I applaud her, and tip my hat to someone who simply states her feelings on what she herself has gone though. Lierre also knows personally many zealots in the community of Vegans who did not either fully follow the tenets, and or suffered badly either way from having followed it too closely over the many years she held true to the beliefs. We need to appreciate people like Lierre as there are not many who tell their personal story for others to make inform decisions instead of simply going by their initial feelings in the matter than by utilizing someone else's experience in having lived through it already. God bless her and anyone else who is brave enough to be honest in what they experienced.
She says some vitamins like A,D,K,E are not found in vegetables. I have checked from internet from different sources. Most of sources of these vitamins are vegan food. For example there is one top 10 list for Vitamin A, except liver all others are vegan food. And as far as i know vitamin d is from sun. So i am really confused about this.
There is a difference between something being in the plants, and being in the plants in a form which is accessible for human digestive system.
This video is full of misinformation.
+Other Voices, Other Choices Please be specific about the misinformation.
+peakmoment everything in this video.
Totally lied about certain vitamins not being in plants.
doesn't even know what an "essential amino acid" is. insane.
cites wikipedia many times.
I just Googled vitamin A and there is a ton of plant foods containing it, where does she get her information??
But you're missing the main point; yes plants, like carrots and yams have vitamin A, but in the presence of animal fats, these vitamins are much more efficiently absorbed into our bodies. Without animal fats, the vitamins which are in the plants are partially but not so completely absorbed.
Ok now some vitamins are water soluable, but vitamin A is fat soluable, so we need fats in order to absorb this vitamin. And polyunsaturated fats aren't stable, they go rancid easily and can cause lots of problems. that leaves saturated fat and monounsaturated fat. It's very likely that the best absorption of vitamins does occur with saturated fat which comes from animal sources. check out this info I found:
www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/the-skinny-on-fats/
The much-maligned saturated fats-which Americans are trying to avoid-are not the cause of our modern diseases. In fact, they play many important roles in the body chemistry:
Saturated fatty acids constitute at least 50% of the cell membranes. They are what gives our cells necessary stiffness and integrity.
They play a vital role in the health of our bones. For calcium to be effectively incorporated into the skeletal structure, at least 50% of the dietary fats should be saturated.38
They lower Lp(a), a substance in the blood that indicates proneness to heart disease.39 They protect the liver from alcohol and other toxins, such as Tylenol.40
They enhance the immune system.41
They are needed for the proper utilization of essential fatty acids.
Elongated omega-3 fatty acids are better retained in the tissues when the diet is rich in saturated fats. 42
Saturated 18-carbon stearic acid and 16-carbon palmitic acid are the preferred foods for the heart, which is why the fat around the heart muscle is highly saturated.43 The heart draws on this reserve of fat in times of stress.
Short- and medium-chain saturated fatty acids have important antimicrobial properties. They protect us against harmful microorganisms in the digestive tract.
The scientific evidence, honestly evaluated, does not support the assertion that “artery-clogging” saturated fats cause heart disease.44 Actually, evaluation of the fat in artery clogs reveals that only about 26% is saturated. The rest is unsaturated, of which more than half is polyunsaturated.45
I know this sounds CRAZY compared to the line we've been given for years! But the more I read into all of this, the more I'm inclined to start agreeing. Our health problems, before the Ancel Keys study that demonized saturated fat, were far less than the health problems and heart disease problems that rose quickly after people traded in their saturated fats for polyunsaturated oils and margarines and now of course we all know that trans fats are awful for our bodies!
It is pretty jarring to our belief systems, sure, but the definition of an open mind is to take in all the information, and don't discard any of it only because it doesn't fit with ideas you have already.
Someone posted a video that was good; the narrator of this video said that if you have a hypothesis that all ducks are white and you see only white ducks for a long time and then come to really believe it's a fact that all ducks are white, then when you see a black duck, you can't ignore that black duck and still believe all ducks are white! You have to change your mind and say, oh it's wrong that all ducks are white.
thanks for your information! i have to look into all that in more detail, but meanwhile I'm still skeptical because I lived for years on a mostly vegan diet occasionally supplemented by dairy, eggs, or meat; and now I live on a "normal" diet high in animal products and I don't feel that my health is better at all, in fact it seems worse.
anyway I guess the truth will probably turn out to be somewhere in the middle: probably a completely vegetarian diet is not healthy, but a diet that is so incredibly reliant on meat, refined sugar, trans fats etc. as the modern day western diet is probably not healthy either.
carfreelori
Regarding Ancel Keys, he is far from the only scientist who noticed a strong link between saturated fats and cardiovascular disease. The vast majority of scientists that did follow-up testing also found the same, and academic understanding on saturated fat has been pretty established for the past 60 years.
Tens of thousands of studies have come out since then to either question or verify his initial hypothesis and the evidence for the past 6 decades is very one-sided confirming Keys' findings. And the reason they are 'demonized', to use your word, by the American Heart Association, and literally every institution for public health, is because they clearly, without a doubt, 100% are strongly linked to cardiovascular disease.
In fact, the mechanisms by which saturated fatty acids increase plasma LDL and ApoB (and thus the risk of cardiovascular diseases) are so well understood that many of them are now textbook facts. Textbook facts... That means the mechanisms are being taught in universities around the world. As a biologist myself, I could explain this topic in more depth if you'd like.
The only source I know of who is arguing the opposite is indeed the Weston A Price foundation, which isn't surprising considering they are a lobby group funded wholly by its members which are mostly companies whose products are in line with their principles. They are as authoritative a voice in the matter of public health as Monsanto, and I wish people would stop letting corporations slip the veil over their eyes like this. Every single thing you listed as a fact in your post which I'm assuming you copied from their site is entirely untrue and pure propaganda.
The World Health Organization, American Heart Association, National Institutes of Health are some of the most authoritative voices on the matter of public health. It's there you should be looking for the bulk of your nutritional recommendations; not the WAPF.
***** I'd say the point is this, a HEALTHY omnivore diet would not contain trans fats or processed foods; it would still contain whole foods and ideally not contain refined sugar except for just a tiny bit. It would contain plants and meats and dairy but would be made from scratch rather than buying ready made gmo crap from the supermarket. Nobody has mentioned that if anyone vegetarian, vegan, or omnivore is eating grains that are gmo...genetically modified...it probably isn't healthy. My idea of a healthy, balanced diet would contain a smaller amount of carbs but not no carbs at all; but I suppose it would be a semi low carb higher fat diet. I think fat has been villanized, if that's a word, unfairly because of flawed, messed up studies.
"A nuclear disaster is better for the planet then civilization"
Such a lovely lady!
Could we not have some respect and compassion for Lierre, who is a real person with real feelings? Here is Lierre's sister on vegans reaction's to The Vegetarian Myth,
A:"I have been stunned by some of the criticisms I have read, usually by people who have not read the book, and the very odd theories some people have about who she is. They have NO IDEA.
Lierre? A jetsetter paid off by the meat industry? She lives in a trailer on the pittance that the government pays to people on disability. She has lived in poverty her entire adult life. She has NOTHING. I bought her the computer that she wrote The Vegetarian Myth on. I bought her the socks she is wearing because every single sock she owned had giant holes in the heels.
Lierre? Eat factory farmed meat? She’d rather starve. Lierre? Exaggerating her illness? She hardly ever mentions it unless you ask. She has been in excruciating pain every day of her life since she was eighteen and a half years old. Do you want to know what doctors say when they look at her MRI? Lierre? A half-assed vegan? You could not FIND a more fundamentalist, purist, thorough vegan. No animal product touched her body.
I remember one year when she decided to live entirely without plastic. She was baking her own bread. She had a wooden toothbrush. This is a woman who lived her ethics. And these particular ethics nearly killed her. Vegans need to understand this: she IS the poster child.
Q, Lierre gets many vegans so angry that it’s almost as if she, rather than factory farmers, is enemy number one. My interpretation is that this is because many vegans care less about animals and the environment than about maintaining their vegan identities. And Lierre poses a greater threat to the vegan identity than actual animal abusers do.
A: I think you are probably right. I think they probably also feel attacked by her. I think back to how I felt when I was a vegan. While I tried never to proselytize, I felt very passionately about it. And of course many attacks against vegetarians and vegans come from people who scoff at the very idea of trying to live carefully, of trying to find solutions, of taking the experience of other sentient beings seriously. Many people think it is laughable to imagine a world where anything but human gratification and short-term human benefit dominates.
This is not Lierre Keith. What Lierre’s attackers need to understand is that she actually IS in their camp. She has the same underlying motivation, and in the case of many of her attackers, she went farther with it than they have, and she’s been at it for longer than most of them have been alive.
Q: Recently, three vegans approached your sister from behind as she lectured about factory farming, and hit her with pepper-laced pies. What does this say about the attackers and those vegans who supported it?
A:Well that is my question exactly. Is there no one practicing vivisection in the bay area? Are there no factory farms between Oregon and San Francisco? Do we not know the names Monsanto, Cargill, ADM? And THIS is your target?? A woman who has been working for social change longer than you’ve been alive? A middle-aged, disabled person living below the poverty line and in chronic pain? What does that say about your movement? The planet is dying and THIS is your action?
I would also like to say that over the past 25 years and more Lierre has faced violence of all kinds at the hands of police, state troopers, military police, court security guards, prison guards, pimps, rapists and drunken frat boys, all in the pursuit of a more equitable world. Is that the camp you really want to be in? Because that’s where you are standing right now.
Q, Do you miss anything about veganism?
I miss the simplicity. It really seemed that our personal choices could save the planet and bring about all of this justice. And it seemed that we could separate ourselves from death, that we could not be a part of it, not be the cause of any creature’s suffering. We thought we could be clean, that the blood would not be on our hands, at least. We thought there was some meaningful distinction between animals “with faces” and animals without faces. (Which animals don’t have faces? Did we mean bugs? Did we mean creatures whose faces are not visible without a microscope? How did we not know that we are dependent on organisms that don’t necessarily resemble us?)
Now I understand that there is no personal solution. If we want justice and a sustainable food system and health we have got to do larger and more complicated things. We have got to raise animals in such a way that they build topsoil and we have to face their deaths. We have got to change the way our continent is being used and destroyed, rather than accepting what large corporations call healthy. We have got to kill and to retain our reverence at the same time. It is all much, much harder."
You can definitely get vitamin A and vitamin E from plants.
Also soy, leafy greens, legumes, nuts and seeds all have protein.
I'm not saying we should all go vegan but anyone can Google this information and see what she is saying is not true.
So after all this "research" 5 minutes in, she is already way off... I have no intention of watching further.
But are they readily available in plants? Can the human body effectively digest them from these sources?
Jeff Tolmich Are you trolling or do you actually know nothing about nutrition?
Vitamin A & E both mainly come from plants, only a few animals contain those nutrients and your body is designed to digest the following: sweet potato, carrots, kale, squash, romaine lettuce, apricots, cantaloupe, red pepper & mango (vitamin A)
tofu, spinach, almonds, sunflower seeds, avocados, broccoli & squash (vitamin E).
If you want to learn more, go look it up.
Keri Nyx Jeff is right to ask. The precursors for vitamins A and E are in plants, but not the complete vitamin. It takes an animal body to make the complete vitamin. If the source is animal, it's more readily assimilated. Some people cannot readily manufacture their own vitamins, so an animal source would work better for them.
peakmoment According to the woman in this video who clearly hasn't got a clue about nutrition. But where are the real scientific sources that back up those claims?
Keri Nyx Do you have a clue about nutrition Keri? you Cannot get vitamin A from plants, only precursors, [maybe do your research before slagging people off?] Here's one of the studies you asked for, I can post many more if you'd like?
"Our research shows is many women are simply not getting enough of this vital nutrient because their bodies are not able to convert the beta-carotene.”
Sixty-two women volunteered for the study, of which 29 of them were found to be carrying the genetic variation which prevented them from being able to sufficiently convert beta-carotene into vitamin A. Dr Lietz, who is based in the School of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development at Newcastle University, added: “Worryingly, younger women are at particular risk. The older generations tend to eat more eggs, milk and liver which are naturally rich in vitamin A, whereas the health-conscious youngsters on low-fat diets are relying heavily on the beta-carotene form of the nutrient.”
The research team is now going to study whether the effect of the genetic variation can also be observed in men and whether body composition will influence the ability to absorb and convert beta-carotene into vitamin A."
www.thejournal.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-scientists-discover-genetic-variation-4469748
Thank you for this. Yes, it's harder to fight huge corporations than just stop eating meat. I feel overwhelmed, but now really understand what is going on.
Long term studies to give accurate data about what? Not necessarily optimal health.
I should clarify: brain size/weight relative to body weight, not size alone. Brain size alone of course doesn't indicate intelligence.
My reading indicates humans have measurably lost brain size and stature, and gained more chronic degenerative diseases since the advent of agriculture -- that's what might concern us about optimal nutrition...and where to measure it from.
I recommend all vegans to read the Epic study. Studied over 500,000 people, conclusions just don't support veganism and vegetarianism as the road to health and longevity.
This is a great video and is based on many scientific studies carried out over decades. It also talks against the cultural norms or dogmatic following of our current north American ideal diets which have been spoon fed to us over the past 40 years. Essentially since the McGovern Report in the 1970s.
What video did you watch?
Hmmmm...........I've been vegan since birth. I'm 20 years old. I see no problems with veganism. The problem is that people do it the wrong way, eat the wrong foods, and use supplements way too much. Then when it doesn't work, they blame it on veganism. Being vegan isn't an issue as long as you eat a decent variety of foods, and you're not starving yourself. There are people who watch the documentary Earthlings, and go vegan without hesitation. They have no problems with the change in lifestyle. But there are 4 basic common-sense rules. You cannot starve yourself, you can't use supplements instead of real food, and you can't live on just oreos and soda (or the opposite, lettuce and tomatoes). You need to get some variety just as you would if you weren't vegan. It's really simple. Don't make it complicated.
Aaron Civic This is so true
+HOT DOG NEWS CHANNEL aka cancer
***** Unfortunately I could never put the flesh of another being into my body. My body is a temple and I am NOT willing to poison it, as I'm sure most vegans agree.
We all want freedom of speech and actions yet, whenever anyone chooses to exercise it, you carnivores all go crazy. Madness.
Three days ago we were told that processed meats cause cancer. Bet you still eat bacon?
Mmmm flesh
Here's something that I find very interesting:
'Studies suggest that the majority of vegetarians return to eating meat after a relatively short time. For instance, CBS conducted a poll of a representative sample of the US population and found three times as many people described themselves as former vegetarians than as vegetarians. Although the margin of error of the poll allows for substantial variance in the ratio, this estimate means that it is likely that over 75% of self-identified vegetarians in the United States at some point return to eating meat. There are two reasons that the percentage would be higher: first, people who were vegetarian for a short time several years before the survey may not have recalled it at the time of the survey, whereas people who were vegetarian at the time of the survey almost certainly did recall this, even if they were only vegetarian very briefly. Second, some of the people who reported being vegetarian at the time of the survey would not remain vegetarian for their whole lives, and the survey did not have any means of detecting this.
Overall, the evidence suggests that the vast majority of people who adopt dietary changes like vegetarianism, veganism, and other forms of animal-product-limiting eventually return at least some distance towards their former dietary habits. An intervention that changes an individual’s diet usually has only a temporary effect. To know the size of the effect, we need to know how long it lasts.'
comes from: www.animalcharityevaluators.org/research/foundational-research/vegetarian-recidivism/
'Based on the available data, we believe that the average new vegetarian (or other animal-product-limiter, including vegans, pescetarians, and with less certainty adherents to meat reduction diets such as Meatless Mondays or Vegan Before 6) will retain their new dietary pattern for 3.6-13.3 years, with the most likely estimate being around 6.2 years. It is possible but not substantiated that even after quitting their animal-product-limiting diet, former limiters will continue to eat somewhat fewer animal products than they had originally. Because the one study that included analysis based on participants’ motivations for vegetarianism did not find substantial differences in recidivism based on differences in motivation, it is likely that these findings are broadly applicable to any programs with similar target audiences, once differences in the rate at which people are convinced to go vegetarian are taken into account. Further research on a variety of points would be useful for reducing uncertainty and confirming that these results apply to the general population. However, we see limited value in multiple individual programs establishing the length of time that participants retain new dietary habits, because there is little evidence that the original cause of vegetarianism affects recidivism.'
This doesn't indicate that vegetarianism or veganism isn't worthwhile for those people who are able to stay optimally healthy. It just points out the high percentage of people who eventually revert to consuming some animal products. Why do so many people revert back and not make their vegetarianism life long? I've heard other ex vegans talking about health problems related to the vegan diet. Lierre is in with a very large number of people. In fact, they estimate the mean length that a person stays a vegetarian to be 6.2 years. LIerre was a vegan for 20 years, way beyond that mean!
I mean, if you can be a vegan and be optimally healthy, it's noble, and more power to you. The reason I've become so interested in this debate is, frankly, because not too many of you vegans have a "live and let live attitude"; gosh, you remind me of all the "born again" christians who've tried to recruit me over the years because it's the ONLY way!
ibid
"The observation led the researchers to a radical conclusion: As complex societies emerged, the brain became smaller because people did not have to be as smart to stay alive. As Geary explains, individuals who would not have been able to survive by their wits alone could scrape by with the help of others-supported, as it were, by the first social safety nets."
I appreciate the integrity and objectivity it must have taken after being a vegetarian for so long to challenge what you believed in and in turn embrace tradition!!!!! You make many wonderful points that are hard to ignore!!!!
What a brilliant woman. Thank you Lierre for your wisdom. I was nearly sucked into the vegan cult; it seems to make sense until you dig a little deeper!
Can someone speak to the truth that 98 to 99% of all animal products are factory farmed? Three glaring issue to me here is that there's no way to feed 8 billion humans with animal products from grazing animals when you consider land availability.
It is not. The most of countries on Earth are not developped enough to have factory farming. Also, what would qualify as organic farming in the USA qualifies as normal (factory) farming in Europe just because the animals are not killed at organic slaughterhouse where they are killed individually without seeing other animals dead. Free range cows and sheep on the pastures are totally normal in Europe.
"There is no end to people who want to bash, ridicule and criticise you."
If you want respect you should first give respect to others. That's an universal rule all over this planet if you talk to other cultures.
That's exactly what I teach to my children.
You will simply gain nothing by acting the way you do.If you want to explain your vision it should be done in a correct manner without using lies.
You will always have people who do not agree with you, that's life.
I will tell my emotional vegan friend that when you eat a salad remember that millions of worms, insects, and bacterias died till this food reach your table, and remember that recently scientists find that trees have feelings too. So either you will die with hunger or you have to think again and have a barbecue with me.
Thank you for posting this valuable information. I have recently transferred from a vegan diet to a Paleo diet for health reasons. This is confirmation that I've done the right thing. So grateful!
Please don't make decisions regarding your health based on CZcams videos. She has no nutrition credentials, and her claims have been debunked several times.
@@patiotaiza Some of her claims are false, but she definitely has the big picture. Keto and paleo are both exploding in popularity because of how effective they are. The carnivore community is also growing quickly just because it yields incredible results.
I was cripplingly sick all my life and didn't even realize it. Removing plants from my diet made all my ailments vanish in a matter of weeks. I would rather die than go back to eating wheat.
She was never vegan. Her words, she ate dairy and eggs every chance she got.
She ate sugary foods.
No science based papers cited.
Lots of rants and repeats.
A better title would be.......
"A junk food vegetarian, who did it all wrong MYTH"
I agree with you. I would never criticize a person's lifestyle, that's an unalienable right. As I've questioned medical researchers with regards to carcinogens and not one being able to answer it, I'll offer it for your consideration. How do you know you wouldn't be as healthy if you weren't vegetarian? The obvious answer is you can't know. The only way we can know the results of health issues is if we know the cause and effect of the physiology, we don't. Every diet makes the same claim.
Thomas
Joshie, celt130 and other frequent commenters: we're providing a discussion forum for you here. How about donating to Peak Moment TV --- as your thanks? Donate online or by mail at peakmoment.tv/donate/. Thanks ~ Janaia & Robin
***** Literally speaking, you are quite right, although it's my choice on whether to keep or close the comments section. I should've mentioned that we're producing about new programs per month, including some in future about health and diet. ~Janaia
***** Let me suggest that you immerse yourself in all the videos on the nutritionfacts.org channel to ascertain what the evidence indicates is "balanced, healthful diets" - I think you will be supprised.
dunklaw Also www.ecopolitan.com/dr-t-3 gives more in depth information on balanced healthful diet.
*****
I used pubmed & BMJ for reference.
Epidemiological studies are critical to temper the kind of reductionist trap that you are falling into like the HISTORIC fact that general obesity is a modern phenomenon - grain eating is not. What about all the obese rice eating Chinese ?!?!?! or obesity in the ancient near east - bread basket ?!?!? or in ancient Rome from the grain grown in Egypt !?!?!?
Basic observation can trump studies many times over.
Red meat VS any other meat is pointless since the biggest problem is bacterial toxic load which is common to ALL animal based products. It is clear to me that these kinds of studies are just to confound the public into giving up and eating anything they are TOLD to.
Each epi-study on nutrition facts is ALWAYS accompanied by well executed reductionist studies. Epi is the predictor & reductionist is the confirmation.
True, no one study generally has that much significance of its self but the overall picture is starting to emerge & it is DEFINITELY one without animal products.
***** See the latest issue of BMJ regarding dietary fiber intake and heart disease - off the back of this meta analysis:-
www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6879
Conclusions - Greater dietary fibre intake is associated with a lower risk of both cardiovascular disease and coronary heart disease. Findings are aligned with general recommendations to increase fibre intake. The differing strengths of association by fibre type or source highlight the need for a better understanding of the mode of action of fibre components.
Now we can say - yes, lets get into the reductionist detail of how all this works out but & this is a big BUT - animal products have no fiber & plants do.
You see pointers to good nutrition are not that complicated.
Thank you for exposing the truth
Vegan for nearly 5 years until my health COMPLETELY fell apart. I was so very sick..
Have been eating animal products again for 4 days and I feel much improved already. For the first time in years I feel like I’m not starving.
But they tell us people have never lived as long as they live now. I always wondered about that since our family knows that our great -grandparents lived to the age 103 & 99 respectively.
Also if you go through old cemeteries in European countries where they all have headstones with inscriptions, you can read the birth and death dates back to a hundred years and sometimes longer. People back then lived quite a long time. Mostly died (if not through war or accidents) at ages 78 - 90.
There are lots of modern gravestones of children. Must be the age of cancer.
I used to be a vegetarian. Then I realized I wasn't getting enough hormones, antibiotics, and formaldehyde in my diet.
Hormones and antibiotics are illegal in farming in the EU, so stop lying. And I don´t know where you took that formaldehyde nonsense from. Formaldehyde is used for preserving dead animals in museums, scientifical collections and stuff.
Is this a joke? Lol
LOL. I was thinking the same thing. "You have to get everything from meat". WTF? What a wack job.
Right! Lol
Cha Chi It really is an insult to all vegetarians, claiming that they must all be nutritionally deficient in some way. Not to mention all the millions / billions of people in entire cultures that have been vegetarian for thousands of years, such as Hindu's.
Seb Rogers I agree. It's clinically Obvious that meat does people more harm than good.
R. Giskard "P.S. Your child is notably fat and ugly."
Bravo, my friend. Well spoken. You insult babies like only a true sociopathic meat lover could. This was a resounding victory on the matter on nutrition. We have triumphed today! Those coward vegans will forever fear the name R. Giskard!
Is something like that how you imagined insulting a baby would make you come across? Because, to me, it just made you look like a taint licking dingleberry.
And Dee, you're lovable in the way you support R Giskard. And by lovable, I mean homely. Get a room, you two.
World economic forum : "u will no longer eat meat"
Ppl ur selves be the resistence, make businesses against it, increase the production
I am the host, not the guest in this show. I do not claim (rigidly or flexibly) that veganism is unhealthy. I think that veganism requires some very careful balancing to get sufficient nutrients. But then, that's true of any diet for healthiness!
Where I stand is that there is no one right way to eat. Our genetics & our heritage's native foods are big factors on what we can *assimilate*. People whose heritage is the tropics will thrive on very different foods from those in the far north.
R. Giskard has been asking for an idealized vegan menu. I'm curious about the same. Not down to the portion sizes, but just a sense of what foods can be included in a vegan diet. I've been reading about the downside of many foods which, if eliminated, make for a small set of choices for a vegan. (In addition to all processed foods, I'm thinking of gluten, fructose, vegetable (seed) oils, and unfermented soy).
Joshie Matthews I'm not interested in bashing vegans. As I've told you before, people make their own diet choices. I think the jury is out on veganism (in terms of health), just as the jury is out (but coming in quite negative) on gluten -- both very recent arrivals in human diet. As you know, I'm interested in sustainability -- what will sustain human health for the long run, for many many generations.
Based on my nutritional research, and my own explorations with diet, I choose to be ketogenic (fat-burning). But I have friends who are vegans. A new friend who is vegan eats mostly processed foods. I'm interested to learn from other vegans what a he might eat for maximum nutrition -- not the processed foods, which aren't healthy for anybody.
Joshie Matthews Paleo eaters do.As did hunter gatherers.
***** Lives in the SAME UNIVERSE as all of us.Its just some of us, let our emotions blind us to the truth.She tells the truth.Whether you choose to accept it, is up to you.
***** Her comments are factual.I have researched them.Also most of her points are logical.Like I said, detach emotion as it becomes clear.Unfortunately, vegans are incapable of doing so.
Jazz Man You don't need to be a scientist to merely regurgitate proven research,which is what she is doing.I have researched her claims.Apart from the fact that her opinions are logical and difficult to refute, IF you can detach emotion,you will find she is correct.
Whether you choose to accept it.Is up to you.Or you and your fellow vegans can simply reject reality and insert your own version.
I've met lots of vegans. None of them are a picture of health. I've also met a bunch of people on atkins/keto. They are a lot healthier. I'll keep my meat, thanks.
hahahaha the only thing you have to do is look for the #vegan tag on instagram and look at vegans and how they are healthier than the average person, so thanks to the internet your anecdotal "proof" can suck a butt, fuck you.
It's weird how meat eaters know so many vegans, especially unhealthy ones...... I've been vegan for 5 years, and i'm the only vegan I know, most people I meet are vegetarians.......And i guess we can just completely disregard the 100s of millions of sick westerners who are scoffing pills every day to keep them alive......Because that's inconvenient to your anti vegan narrative................
Ridiculous statement. Drs Mc Doughall, Esselstyn, Greger, Barnard are all lean and health; Atkins, Sears, Fallon, Weil are all FAT
Vegans have a 15% less chance of dying than meat eaters.
The average life expectancy in America is about 80 years old. So that means vegans will potentially live into their early 90s on average.
Good day.
Armani they have 15% less chance of dying? Sooooo they can be immortal?
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Why so many dislikes?? you guys know that vegan is not the diet that is most natural to humans it's common sense and research corroborates this... I love you vegan/vegetarians your heart is in the right place but your methods are wrong.
This is unscientific nonsense.
It's resentful rants from a sick woman. If everyone who got ill blamed their diet, we wouldn't eat a thing without getting sick.
Caresse Dansée This is purely scientific... Your inability to understand science because you're an idiot uneducated vegan doesn't mean this is unscientific.
She's full of crap. Literally.
@@misskai8158 Actually, most poop is the result of indigestible plant matter, mostly fibre. Carnivores produce roughly ten times less poop than a regular person.
I wonder if this lady has looked into perma-culture related methods of farming like hugelkultur and forest farming. I have watched videos where deserts have become forests because of people reintroducing life into those areas.
I switched to a Vegan Diet 7 months ago. I have never had any problems with my diet. My iron levels, blood pressure and calcium levels are way better than before. I eat minimal processed foods and consume primarily whole foods. I've been healthier than I ever have been. My acne is cleared up, my bowel motions are amazing, I have more energy and I don't feel sick. My Mum and I look so much younger and healthier now. It's great. It's not possible for us to have lived on a meat diet. All the evidence points towards a plant based diet as whole foods are more stable and secure. You can eat 100% fruits, vegetables, legumes and beans and live. You can't live on 100% Meat and Dairy Products. You need phytonutrients, and carbohydrates form 40 - 60% of our diet as I've learned from University. You don't need a high amount of protein, you only need around 10 - 15% which can be easily consumed in plant based foods.
Come back and tell us about it seven years from now.
@@victorialadybug1 Well I left that comment 8 years ago. Still vegan and feeling great 9 years in. :)
Joshie, you suggested a month ago that someone interview me. (I can't get the Reply feature to work on that comment). I was interviewed last spring -- not about personal aspirations but my view on the state of the world. Peak Moment episode 235, "Living with the Predicament." Living with the Predicament
I'm on page 112 of the book; I really think it's extremely well-written and I agree with just about all I've read so far. I can see why vegetarians and vegans are totally up in arms about this book though. But you know, just because you don't want to hear this doesn't mean it isn't true and it sure doesn't mean that she wasn't qualified to write it; I'd say she did some thorough research of her own before she wrote this book. I love the book and I think it's definitely on point. Her ideas about what we really need are right. I can imagine though how hard it is for someone who's vegan to read this with an open mind.
now I've read the book...i agree with her naming of problems related to monocrops and some of her other ideas for sure...but then she starts getting way too extreme for me!!! Way too extreme!
Lierre should be respected for her bravery in telling the truth, another vegan woman who blogged that she had ceased to be vegan because of her health was not only accused of lying and not having proof of her health, but also threatened with murder and rape. Does this not feel at all familiar? Men telling us that we cannot trust the intuition of our bodies, our ancestral knowledge? Haven't we had about 400 years of Male "experts" telling us to "shut up, your'e mental, do you want to be locked up or burnt?" if we tell the truth around healing and our health and our Knowing.
I don't believe she has her facts straight.
The picture about hunter gatherers is being distorted here. They did not live as long as we do hence some diseases did not have time to show. They also did not have meat every single day during the year (don't forget the GATHERERS part), they often went hungry, while we do not. They had high energy expenditure in comparison to us and they consumed wild plants, much richer in phyto-nutrients, often rather bitter and having certain protective effect on our health, not that abundant in our modern fruits and vegetables bred for higher palatability. Starch based diet, on the other hand, promotes growth of certain strains of good bacteria in our intestines, protecting the gut lining from cancer, which, on the other hand, is enhanced by phenolic and sulphide compounds in the gut when on high animal protein diet, especially from processed meat. I would be interested to find out more details about the dietary recommendations of this lady and her own diet.
I'm personally not vegetarian but if you are a vegetarian it's not wrong at all like this woman is claiming. Vegetarians can have complete proteins by combining incomplete proteins together such as beans, rice, lentils etc...You can receive the proper nutrition when you are a vegetarian. This lady needs to take a nutrition class because you can recieve vitamins and minerals from plant sources. Also your body was not made to digest certain meats anyway. This lady has no clue what she's talking about. Her statement is false
You're missing the real vegetarian protein problem. You can mix protein sources and get a proper amino acid spectrum... on a spreadsheet. But once you figure in the fact that many of those AA's are locked up in tough plant proteins which can't be digested by us, you see that the vegans face another protein problem for which there is no obvious solution. I guess maybe if they soak their protein sources in ethanol for a few hours before consumption it might unlock them. But that's a lot of booze per day, if you ask me.
R. Giskard Honestly that's your opinion but not all humans can digest meat properly. If you took a nutrition class you would have learned how you can be a healthy vegetarian.
I extend the same offer to you that I do any vegetarian who claims a vegetarian diet to be healthful. Provide me a 24 hour all plant meal plan which does not depend upon supplement pills, hypodermic needle injections, or artificially fortified food. I'll analyze it, compare it to the RDA's and the EAR's, and we can discuss the results.
You might want to scan the threads under this vid to see how various vegetarians have tried to evade putting up a concrete menu for analysis. They're all afraid to do so, you see, because they know that any all plant menu they put up is going to have problems even at the level of essential nutrients. Even before we get to the concepts of conditionally essential nutrients, and optimal values as opposed to the bare minimum EAR values.
If you think this is just "opinion", then take it out of that realm by posting a concrete vegetarian menu which we can evaluate objectively. All vegetarians whom I have challenged (and there are many) have been too afraid to respond.
I, myself, have already posted a 24hr omnivorous menu plan of high nutrient density foods here, along with an objective analysis of nutritional content. Why are you so afraid to do so? Because you know how bad vegetarianism will end up looking if you do.
Take a course in nutrition. You'll soon learn your folly.
Joshie Matthews Is your lack of education now the only defense you have left? LOL.
Where's your menu?
vanessa Gratton-Misek
Don't mind the trolls, Vanessa.
"Killing an animal is hard; digestion one is easy. Killing a plant is easy; digesting one is hard" - John Durant, The Paleo Manifesto, quoted by Dr. Michael Eades, author of Protein Power
It may appear that digesting plants is easy -- but assimilating their nutrients can be another question. Many have phytic acid or other ways to dissuade animals from eating them (e.g., you need to soak seeds and nuts to reduce these.).
Welcome to G+ Janaia! :)
Logan Smith Thank you, Logan. You invited me on several years ago. It took awhile to get there -- I'm just not able to keep up with all the social media. I need a kindly mentor to teach and help me prioritize activities on G+, FB, and T.
I was vegan for 3 weeks but stopped because I became a fundamentalist picking on people who ate meat. Life consumes life for life. Always has always will. Every lifeform is sentient and has feelings. So if vegans are truly against harming animals, what about the insects you walk on or hit with your cars? Regenerative animal and plant agriculture is the healthiest for the planet. .
After 30 years being a vegetarian I still like what she is saying. We need to change what we do...factory farming has got to stop. Thank you for radical thinking.
first radical feminist i've liked in a while! Nice job.
People I thought that what matter in life was respect, love and 90% of this comments are hateful
This is why the vegans are freaking about this book!!! ---"The aspect of this book, that makes it so important and controversial, is Keith's attempt to point out the hypocrisy of the moral stand that vegetarians rely on. The quasi-religious belief that killing animals for food is wrong. This is the one that will push the buttons and get the reaction, but after being a vegetarian for 28 year's myself it was a position that I had come to realise was both false and blinkered. When I chose plant proteins over animal protein I was responding to the childish and immature emotional prejudice towards large mammals. I didn't want to kill a cow so I could live. To maintain this I had to ignore the facts that Keith drives home in this book - when we shift our diets to soy instead of free-range steak we condemn another acre of biologically diverse pasture to the plow. For each cow thus saved from the chop by our misguided vegan principles, we destroy the lives and habitats of millions of those less charismatic organisms - wild plants, fungi, insects, worms, nematodes and the whole irreplaceable ecosystem within the soil. Hardly moral is it? Indefensible in fact. Hence why the vegans are baying for blood, and Keith deserves an accolade." reveiw from Amazon
You can fit the population of the world in just a few counties on Florida. Fact of the matter is, this garden is plenty big enough. The only reason people have any food shortages or are stuck eating chemically ridden food is simply because of laziness. There are millions of acres that have nothing more than grassy beautiful landscapes. Well let me tell you something, those big grassy yards are the problem, they provide nothing to sustain life. People have chosen to mow instead of sow and now they reap their reward. It's unfortunate that our bodies cannot survive on grassy yards so we must reply on mass production to feed us. No... It's not some corporations fault, it's our own, we choose to be lazy and the product of laziness has always been bad health.