Sometimes it kind of sucks... ASIAIR TOP MISSING FEATURES!
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- I've been using the ASIAir intensively recently, and while overall it's a great little device... it really lacks some much needed features in many different areas! This is from a deep sky imaging perspective.
Said otherwise: BECAUSE it's such a great and convenient device, I expect more from it!
00:00 Introduction
01:22 More flexible polar alignment
03:07 Better filter management
05:19 Better sequencer
09:41 Better guiding
13:20 Better search
15:03 Better framing and pointing tolerance
18:29 Open it up!
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Thanks for your suggestions.The ASIAIR team has received it and we will seriously discuss it. Clear skies!
Thank you! I really love the device overall, and I am very excited to see it evolve! Clear skies!
I definitely agree with point 1. They should open it up to other makes. It would have a vast increase on sales of the ASIAIR if you could use other cameras and equipment. I for one would definitely purchase one then .
I agree with Cuiv.
The reset was very scary and confusing as a first time user. (Cuiv mentions that comment I left). If you reset your progress in a game, you lose your progress. If you reset Windows, well, you go back to a blank Windows install. So that term had me on edge.
I'll also add what I did in a previous video: In a plan, I want to be able to pause after a set of exposures. If this is in there, I can then do darks and flats as part of the same plan, because I'll have a moment to put the cap or flat light on. Right now, I have a dark filter in the wheel so I can do darks as part of it, but flats end up being separate.
Speaking of filters: I want to be able to customize the names of the filters. I have, in the wheel, some specialized multi-band nebula and light pollution filters, but there's no way for me to give them proper names.
I would also like to see other focusers supported. There are some really high-end electronic focusers out there that are really nice to have. I would love to see those supported even if this isn't opened up to other cameras and wheels.
I'm really interested in some Player One Astronomy cameras. They offer some sensors that ZWO does not. For example, they have IMX464 sensor based camera and ZWO has said that don't plan on offering that sensor. If ZWO sold IMX464, I would buy it, but since other manufacturers are not supported by ASIAir, I hesitate. Same for IMX432, IMX429 and IMX249. ZWO doesn't offer these sensors, but Player One does. QHY has other models and features not supported by ZWO.
I agree with Cuiv for guiding, framing, better sequencer, pointing tolerance and polar alignement on three points, Thanks Cuiv and Zwo
Speaking as a new guy, this unit is a life saver. Maybe I’m not advanced enough to be affected by some of the issues that torment you guys? I Love this thing, I can lay in bed and control my imaging just outside my window. This way I don’t spill my scotch 😊
I would like to see ‘tonight’s best’ have a sort function based on your main camera settings, so that the images you see are based on your particular sensor size and focal length, rather than just sky position. From my back yard I often get recommendations that are not suited to my image train yet the AAP knows about all my equipment. I don’t think this would be too hard to implement.
I have added you - subscribed: I like the honesty, which almost NEVER exists with other reviewers. Please continue to keep it honest and real - GREAT video - thank you, sir.
Right on, Cuiv! Having used the ASIAIR Pro for nearly a year, I'm in total agreement with all of your criticisms, especially the last #1 point. For example, I have a non-ZWO focuser that is, of course, useless with the ASIAIR. Bravo and clear skies!
Thank you! I know there can be very different opinions, but that was mine :)
Love your passion and enthusiasm about the stuff you report on… have watched most of your stuff and you have helped me so much … thank you from a 70 y/o wanna be Astro photographer
Thanks Paul! Glad my videos have been useful!
One of your items is becoming a reality. They just added the ability to polar align from any part of the sky. And I think they have dramatically improved plate solving accuracy. Lately my night to night imaging has been perfectly aligned.
Awesome!
Great video as always and thank you so much for including my suggestions! Hope ZWO will consider these improvements you suggested. That would make the device even more awesome! Clear skies!
They were good suggestions :)
Nice review, Cuiv! Not having a framing wizard is probably the major reason I have not gone with an ASIAir yet. When you get into longer focal lengths and smaller regions of sky, you want to be able to focus on specific features, not just shoot the given central coordinates.
this is a wonderful ramble. thank you
Fantastic video Cuiv!! I agree with all of that. Especially the object search function.
Thank you!
Love it!!! You’ve voiced so many things that I’ve found in the last year of using AAP. I’ve just ordered my mono set-up and I’m worried about time wasted on re-autofocus because of the lack of focus offsets!
Thanks! Yeah there's a lot that can be improved without complexifying the interface...!
These are all great suggestions. Well done.
Amy! Thank you! :)
All great points. I just can't imagine going from NINA's advanced sequencer to ASIAir.
Agree 100% on better search. Pointing tolerance! Yes! Great stuff as always!
Thanks!
Great suggestions! PEC guiding would be a great addition IMO. Regarding your pointing tolerance for returning to targets on multiple nights… I have a pro tip for you! Find the best sub of the target in question in the library and select “go-to” and it will center your current session to that frame exactly so you won’t have to perform a massive crop as you described.
Thanks for the tip! Yep, I actually featured that tip in another ASIAIR video! But it still doesn't center quite right...
Excellent review, Cuiv. I’ve had the Pro for about a year now and I 100% agree with every single point you made. I shouted “Yes!!!” when Better Search and was brought up. I personally use a mix of common names and catalog numbers, for no rhyme or reason, it just depends on the object and how I came to know it. I’d also like to make changes to app settings even when I’m not connected to the ASIAir. I feel like I should be able to create a target plan(s) and just have those settings upload the next time I connect to it. 🤔
Oh yes! Changes in the app without being connected to the ASIAir would be great!
All-Sky Polar Align (without visibility of NCP) has been unveiled in latest firmware, Cuiv. :)
Great info! New Subscriber!
Thank you for this video, I wasn't aware of some of these problems. As I have a qhy filter wheel and moonlight focuser, I'll stick with NINA for my second mount. You've saved me from disappointment
Glad this helped! Moonlite focuser.... I miss those! I used to have one!
Cuiv, that was a very interesting review of what's missing in the ASIair Plus. It's good to get an experienced astrophotographer's view of items like these. I've just recently bought one and am coming to terms with using it for each of its components (targeting, focusing, guiding, shooting & framing, filters). It has helped me to get out of my blue funk re astrophotography. I've done more AP in the past 2 weeks than I've done in the past 10 years! You are right in saying it is a game changer. I sincerely hope that ZWO take up all your suggestions. I would like to be able to grow into this interest, and with the improvements you mention, especially #1, I can see that happening. I'm in the situation where I need to strip down my system after each night's session for security reasons (part of the reason for my 'blue funk'), so this unit is helping me set up quickly and getting productive rapidly with much less hassle.
I have one minor gripe: When the ASIair starts up, the app shows I'm at Dec 90-deg. If I slew to any target, then decide to go to HOME, I'm moved a Dec of 89-deg. Why??? Does everyone's do this, or is it just mine? It doesn't seem to worry the app as a PA immediately after HOME-ing works quite well showing low errors. (Gripe over!)
Excellent analysis and evaluation. Thank you Cuiv.
Glad you liked it!
I agree with the reset plan point, that annoys me every time. They should just get rid of that “feature”. Another one is being able to update a plan or auto run whilst it is running.
Great video thanks. Your points are expertly put and well worth listening to for any budding astro photographer thinking of how to improve their game. I haven't got one of these units yet though I use two Zwo cams and the mini EFW after discovering Altair cams won't connect to anything Raspberry pi related and its been expensive changing over. Though I'm happy using Sharpcap Pro you make Nina sound interesting and its maybe the next step for me. Thanks again Cuiv
Cuiz, thanks to your suggestion, some of the suggested function are included in the latest firmware update.
Thanks for this, I was just about to purchase one of these. Can you review other options please?
Love the ASIAir. People like you, make it better with your suggestions. thanks
Thanks! Same - I think it's a great device, would love to be able to even more with it :)
De nouveau merci pour cette vidéo très instructive . ZWO va avoir du travail grâce à toi ! De toutes les informations que j’ai vu sur l’AsiAir ce sont les tiennes les plus complètes ! Merci encore pour ce travail. Et encore je dois louper des informations à cause de mon niveau d’anglais assez scolaire.... Bon ciel à toi et bonjour de France !!!
Merci beaucoup pour ce feedback Pierre! J'essaye en effet d'etre assez complet dans mes videos :) On verra ce que ZWO en fait!
Love the dither without guiding idea. Some more low hanging fruit: there is an Intervalometer port, open it up to use without needing to hook up USB to select legacy DSLRs. There is already star detect for average star size calculating, have an option to auto calculate on frames and show a graph over time, even better send an alert if it exceeds a threshold.
Wait the intervalometer port there is just there to be pretty?? I had no idea... Yeah that port should work!
Could you please tell us how to calculate the right calibration steps depending on our setup? maybe some kind of magical formula? ^^
Yes, I spent too much time searching without finding
There is no magic formula because this is impacted by seeing and transparency and focal length dependency. Check out for more info: eastwindastro.blogspot.com/2021/02/how-to-adjust-asiair-guide-aggression.html
It's in PHD2's source code! github.com/OpenPHDGuiding/phd2/blob/master/calstep_dialog.cpp , from line 226!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek could you pls translate into more common math for us non-programmers? Thanks /Kurt
Excellent points Cuiv, especially on the polar alignment and guiding which I struggle with. I have trees facing North. Sometimes the excellent plate-solving helps but not always,. Hopefully ZWO listens and implements some of your suggestions. I expect they will.
We'll see! I kind of blindsided them with this video but they're being good sports about it!
At least you have an option to walk or drive to another location where NCP is visible. I live at 1-degree north and absolutely no visibility of NCP! Hence, an EQ mount is something that I want to get but hesitated due to polar alignment difficulty here.
Great job as usual Cuiv articulating everything and I like everyone of your suggestions except I do have some reservation about the sequencer. I like some of recommendations like the filter offsets (if you use them) and changing it while imaging, however, I don't want to see it turn into NINA's advanced sequencer - I can't stand it. They took something that was very simple and made into this complex mess in my opinion. - Cheers Kurt
Oh yeah the advanced sequencer is quite complex - but at least NINA still has the simple sequencer. Completely agree that they could leave the sequencer alone, at least for things like "until target below x degrees"
All good points. I do find it's a bit erratic when it comes to centering on a target which can be very frustrating at times. And like you said, definitely wish they would open it up to other makes of equipment as it's really locking out those who have already started along their astro journeys and have accumulated other makes but might like to add the ASIAIR to their portable arsenal. Here's hoping they are listening to you 😉
We'll see! Fingers crossed!
Great video. Totally agree with your last point. We know why they do it and it's just a sad thing.
I agree with most of your suggested upgrades. Because of how my yard is, 3 point polar alignment would open up a lot more targets. Now that I joined the mono club, the filter offsets would be an amazing addition. In many regards, the ASIAIR seems optimized for OSC cameras and the current product places a lot of restrictions on mono imagers. The only suggestion that I have mixed feelings on is opening up the ASIAIR to other vendors. I started out my astrophotography journey using a hodgepodge of different equipment controlled by a PC. The ASIAIR and the closed ZWO ecosystem is analogous to Apple products. Whether you like them or not, the integration just works and my progress as a beginner took off by having a user friendly control system that manages my EAF. EFW, guiding and camera. The PC based solution held me back as a beginner because of all the trouble I had getting things to work consistently. If ZWO provides the upgrades that you suggest, I would have no reason to consider other alternatives. As I continue to build my knowledge and experience, I might need to revisit other control options unless ZWO starts supporting features useful for imagers growing beyond the beginner level.
Completely agree with that viewpoint!
Hey Cuiv, yes you are absolutely right, the accuracy of the GoTo is completely sub-par, this literally prevents me from using the Plan feature in the ASIAIR altogether. I would love to use it night after night and set and forget, but like you, I just can't. I multi night image all the time and I simply cannot rely on the accuracy of the GoTo to match my subs from previous nights. It is NEVER close enough or accurate. I am left to use Autorun only and I manually have to perform multiple GoTo's on the target one after the other before I am satisfied I am actually seeing the exact same field from the previous night. It is so annoying! This is a really great video mate, some points well made that would really see the Asiair go from good to amazing! Can only hope ZWO listens 🤞🏻🙏🏻
Thanks for the feedback! Yep, at least for the centering tolerance, it would be really, really nice!
Great review...it does seem like a great piece of gear.
But seeing as this is the 3rd version of this device, I'm glad I went the mini pc /RD route!
Thanks Kevin! Mini-PC always works :)
It would be handy if you mention a software version number. Then it would only take a peek at the release notes to see if any of your complaints (eh, suggestions) have been solved. Thanks for this video, hope you’re back soon. Clear skies!
What a wonderfully thorough review. As someone that now also uses NiNA (in addition to ASIair) I can tell NINA has "spoiled" you for other software. ZWO seems committed to continuous development and I hope to see your suggestions implemented in the future.
I hope some of these will be picked up indeed! I've been spoiled by NINA for sure (and yes, having coded some of the features in NINA, I'm invested in it :) )
Great video! I had a try with the original Gen 1 ASIAIR, it looks as if they really haven't changed the actual user experience. I agree with all of your points made here. As a NINA user, this seems severely limiting. I do 90% of my imaging from my city backyard, and I always thought its mobility would be awesome for me when I go to a dark site. Then I am quickly reminded that it will not work with my Altair Astro cameras. I too understand the business decision of locking it with ZWO-only products, but it's severely limiting.
Great video! Clear skies from San Francisco! :)
Thanks Angus! Yes it's so good that it's frustrating it's not even better :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I think it's more frustrating that this Gen 3 was created to fix a self-inflicted problem introduced in the Gen 2. (Does it really count as a new model if it's mostly there to fix a problem it created? Haha 😂).
The calibration steps at 2000 for a 300mm scope or less are needed for it to calibrate guiding when targets are closer to the north celestial pole. Also I have been using the pro for a while now with no trouble. Recently though (twice) in plan mode, the ASIAIR turned off tracking in the mount at the start of the imaging session right after it centered, focused and changed filters. It would start a photo and then stop tracking partway through it. When it finished one target (or I should say “did not”) it would go to the next target, but tracking would still be off. The ASIAIR always turns tracking on automatically when slewing to any target except the home position. So I know it’s an issue with the ASIAIR. And I already reloaded its OS and updated all firmwares to my equipment. I can’t get it to replicate the issue in the house while testing. And it’s probably because I can’t test plan mode indoors because it wants to plate solve and that can’t be avoided. It will track all night no problem and I can image for as long as I want while tracking in preview mode and tracking will not turn off. It was only in plan mode. 2 rare clear nights lost. Very upset.
Aaaah yes that would make sense... I just wish it would be more like PHD2, just warning you that you're calibrating in an area where it's not great to calibrate (and offer the option to slew to such an area)... otherwise that sounds like a very frustrating experience... I hope you find a solution.
Excellent review Cuiv. I would add a manual rotator (like the one in NINA)to the list as I find it essential for target framing.
Oh right, that would be very helpful as well!
Thank-you for the video.
They're all interesting points and possibly will be issues if I delve further into this unreal hobby. But I didn't give issue #1 any thought at all. From my astro beginnings, I purchased two ZWO cameras (guide120 & planetary178) as well as a ZWO guide scope with the first ASIAR on top. I decided to save up and purchase the ASI533 MC Pro after watching your video a while ago. The only issues I've had is that the guiding on the ASIAIR would all of a sudden just piss off and I couldn't stop it doing it. Even after using the same PHD settings from me laptop - go figure. Anyway i don't understand how it all works and just went back to my laptop PHD and Canon. In the last month I decided to have another crack at it with a portable Star Adventurer GTi with the ASIAIR Plus Ive just purchased and make it work - I hope it works!!
I'm glad you pinned ZWOs Comment. I think their gear is good, affordable and functional (in my amateur opinion). How much better equipment would it be if it worked on all set-ups as you have suggested. I hope they seriously consider it!
Excellent video, Cuiv. I don't have one of these but your suggestions have prompted hose restricted me to look closer at my Ekos/Astroberry set up to check a few things there and make improvements if possible. As for Zwo, and all credit to them for responding in the comments, I have their cameras and EFW but a DeepSkyDad EAF. Based on this, I would never buy an ASI Air. What closed-source manufacturers seem to ignore is that while they may gain sales by locking people in, they lose goodwill from others (like me) who will choose other manufacturers based on the better, more flexible, product and service. As soon as somebody graduates from total beginner they normally start asking if equipment can be manipulated for their own purposes and when they find it cannot, the resulting frustration and feeling of being taken advantage of will lead them to turn their back on those manufacturers who lock them in. Apple is a case in point. I would no longer use their products even if they were given away free! Anyway thanks for the insights and keep up the good work. Clear skies!
Thanks Mark! Yes, ZWO is a really reactive company, and they're good sports about this video - that's really good! You're exactly the type of person that I wish could use the ASIAIR... having a single component from another brand disqualifies you.
Great video and great analysis. Point # 1 is very important and I totally agree with you. As I have told you, I am a ZWO and Canon user, but I refuse to purchase an ASIAIR due to its restrictive policy with other manufacturers. All brands that use this policy create a captive market of customers and subsequently neglect quality by not feeling pressure from the competition. I want an ASIAIR but without those limitations, I want to decide for myself, not what ZWO imposes on me. For now I am uncomfortable with ZWO. Every customer counts, every $ counts, and a manufacturer should not lose customers for any reason. My opinion is somewhat harsh, but we must send a clear message to our suppliers. Hugs
Yep, I completely get that decision. It feels like a waste that such a good device can't be used by more people...
Excellent review Cuiv. I have been contemplating the ASIAir for a year now as I would like a more portable setup as oppossed to hauling around a laptop but I am at a juncture in my AP experience and deciding how I am going to upgrade my equipment. Compatability with other brands is a big no no for me, I get it from a business perspective (its what Apple do, hell we even do it my business to lock customers into the eco system) but it is very limiting and is the ONLY reason I have not bought this as I would have bought one a year ago in fact.
I think I will wait until ZWO further upgrade their mini astro pc. As soon as they open it up to other brands I will be at their doors for it. The argument for support is a tough one however and may require a bit of a change in their business model, this can be a very time consuming exercise as all know who are in the software/hardware business but, it can work. Looking forward to what ZWO do.
CS
Brad
I had already decided the ASIAIR wasn't for me, and watching this review validated my concerns. My initial concern was PC compatibility, I could run it through an emulator but that just seems a bit to janky for me. As far as the being locked into a certain manufactures product goes I'm ok with that, if it means more stability (I remember when Microsoft stopped supporting a huge list of 3rd party hardware in the search for a more stable operating system, wow that was like 100 years ago). I see that ZWO is following this so I'll put these suggestions in an order of importance to me.
1. Better sequencer
2. Better guiding
3. Polar Alignment
4.Better framing and pointing tolerance
5. Better search
6. Better filter management (this is low on my list simply because I use one shot color)
7. Open it up
PC compatibility is at the top of my wish list.
Great review Cuiv! And thank you ZWO for responding, it's always nice to see a company work with it's end users to create a better product.
Absolutely! Big kudos to ZWO for answering and being such good sports about it!
I've only ever used an ASIAIR pro since pickup up this hobby. I love mine and was surprised you said it was missing features, but you were right on your points. I wish it would have a search list of 'closest to my location' where I could platesolve and get results in that patch of sky.
Pretty much every feature he mentioned is available in NINA for Windows laptop/mini-PC & remote desktop users. I've not used the ASIAir and probably wouldn't unless these things were added. Until then it's not in the same league as the Windows programs. It's also not that much cheaper considering you can get very small low-power mini PCs with Windows for pretty cheap and use a remote desktop client on your tablet for a similar experience.
Thanks Andy! I think I've been spoiled by NINA :) And I do like to optimize my imaging time as much as I can!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Having something that was as simple and plug and play like the ASIAIR got me a big head start in this hobby.
Great recommendations. I emailed ZWO about meridian flip centering as well. When I set up the imaging session I enter the co ordinates but over the imaging session it slightly moves and after meridian flip, ASIAIR uses the las know image co ordinate instead of the original target. So the overall image starts to creep and you've to crop a bigger section out.
Thanks! Yeah, completely agree!
This is great. I was really worried when you were getting so excited during the Unboxing and First Light videos. My overactive imagination was think how sad it would be if you ditched NINA for this shiny new toy. 😂
I will buy one eventually for a potable rig to take camping but right now I'm enjoying learning all I can about NINA.
Oh it definitely has its strengths, but it does have limitations too, and we need to be cognizant of that!
Cuiv, Thanks for your very informative reviews. I'm at a very beginner level and simplicity helps a lot to make the learning curve a little easier. That's why I'm debating about jumping on this little device. With that said, do you have any information about the temperature resistance of this device. I live in a place where summer hits 38+ degrees and winter drops to 0- degrees. Thanks for your help to our community!
Thanks Fabian! I still think it's a great device for beginners and I really like it - I just want more out of it :) I can't say anything about temperature resistance for now... it's survived 34 degrees or so outside, but can't say more at this stage...
Some sort of wizard to set the calibration step and other settings would be great. Some of these features have been included meanwhile, would be great you re-do this video with version 2.0.
Totally agree on polar alignment. Would purchase this in a heartbeat for the future.
I am situated just one degree north of the equator and have to resort to a modified DARV with DSLR & telephoto lens.
BTW. Can this ASIAIR PRO/PLUS work with DSLR & camera lenses? IE non-ASIAIR cameras & astrographs?
I know this is a very late post for the upload of the video ( it could also be me too not being able to work it out ) but being able to use the app to make a plan with out having to be connected to the air from my experience I needs to be connected, so I need to set up my rig make plan then run it on the night. I would like to see ( it could do it I just haven't worked out how too) pre made plans days in advance i.e. I have clear sky's tomorrow or next few days let me plan ahead so on x date I can run x plan with out having to connect to the air so when I do connect to it I can say run plan x from x time, so at what ever time my rig comes to life and starts and starts the plan.
Great video! I like the ASIAIR and I didn't have any issues with the centering of the targets, yet. What I did find really annoying is that the meridian flip is only performed once and you can't enter your mount limits. I had my telescope bump into the tripod twice, because sleepy me didn't calculate the duration of the imaging session correctly.
Ooh that sounds scary on the flip, thanks for the update!
Great video as ever! I agree with you, mostly - but only because of my different perspective. I like the simplicity because I have very little time to image and I need a portable setup. I worry that more complication could put off the users who buy this for its simplicity, such as beginners or those who just prefer the simplicity. However, I suspect this could be dealt with as a software issue on the app. Maybe there could be a free app with the basic features and a "pro" app (maybe with a small subscription to help cover developer costs) with many more features unlocked. Or something like that.
I currently image with a modded DSLR on a Skyguider pro, and the ASIAIR Pro functionality is even more limited as a result. So even though they say it can be used with the listed DSLRs, there are still a few more barriers (or at least I haven't figured it all out - time, again). Mind you this is pushing me into planning to invest in a dedicated astro camera (ZWO of course....).
One addition that would be useful would be the ability to set an imaging plan WITHOUT connecting to the mount (there is not much advantage to connecting to a tracker if your polar alignment is reasonable and exposures are short-ish). In other words to use the ASIAIR as an intervalometer, I tried this and it stops at a step asking me to connect the mount.
That's a good idea - two different versions of the software! SW has Synscan and Synscan Pro apps for instance. Also, using the app without being connected to the ASIAIR comes up a lot in other comments as well!
Thanks so much for the honest review. I just canceled my order on the ASA air. I’m sure they will come out with many improvements as you requested. The last one, however. Who knows. But at this point I think we’re better off waiting to see what they do to further the Astro photography adventure.
I think that's fair - to be honest, I really love the little device, it's made me image in times when I wouldn't image otherwise - let's see what ZWO cooks up in the future!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek As you pointed out, Cuiv, the value proposition is quite high for short focal length refractors and lightweight mounts.
Way to go Cuiv. I agree with you that ZWO should open up their product to other cameras, focusers etc. I’m with you on all your criticism’s & yeah the framing bit too. Clear Skies Brother….
Thanks Robert!
Agree with everything mentioned here including point #1. My biggest disconnect with ASIAIR is the lack of support for non-ZWO devices - for top-of-the-line focusers & efw.
Thank you!
Loved the video and understood all you were taking about only wish that I could someday get to those situations. I am a novice to the hobby but have been purchasing sa few things to make it easier to set up (i also own Celestron AVX SC8" with StarSence)
So I have the Asi Air Pro (without antenna) I also have a ZWO 533 and the 120 guide camera.
I use the ioptron SkyWatcher Pro (Nikon d5600 when not using ZWO)
I have been using camera lens Tamron 200 -600 and a wide angle for Milky Way.
So my question is during setup what do I select if I am using the iOptron Skywatcher since it is not listed and wat to I choose if I am using a camera lens not a telescope.
One other thing is the only way to see live in Video Mode? what is Live Mode for? Thanking you in advance for your help.
I actually don't know what the Sky watcher Pro is (isn't it a simple tracker?) So I'm not sure. Have you tried asking on the ASIAIR Facebook group?
Excellent video Cuiv. For a beginner maybe a great tool but its not so suited to advanced or intermediate users. As you show it lacks a lot of features. I also use products that are not ZWO. I was considering one but I now plan to put NINA on a NUC. I think that will be better for my portable rig
Thank you! Yes, it's just that even for me, it's been such a boon - I've been imaging so much more thanks to the ASIAIR (and the lack of remote desktop failures) - it's really a cool device! We'll see what their roadmap is :)
I liked your video and your suggestions that will be implemented possibly some day. But as for now and people like me just starting out with astrophotography what the ASIAIR PLUS offers is a great starting point to simplify your photo sessions for newbies.
Very true - some suggestions have apparently already been implemented and it's transparent for beginners (more accurate auto centering, and keep imaging past meridian but before the flip)
Great video Cuiv, at this point a comparison with other portable systems such as astroberry / stellarmate would also be appropriate, which would have to partially compensate for the lack of integration with products of other brands using INDI drivers.
Stellarmate also has an application and looks very promising as a portable system
I didn't want to compare in this video - I ended up referring to existing features in NINA, EKOS, and PHD2, as the illustrate what I felt was missing in the AA.
I've been testing Stellarmate extensively these past weeks as well - and helping fix a lot of the bugs in the app. I think it's good enough now that it could be used decently. I will have a video soon where Stellarmate is at the heart of things.
Toujours au top Cuiv! Complètement d’accord avec toi , et content que tu ne rencontres pas les soucis de portée wifi avec ton AaPlus.
Si un jour #ZWO accède à toutes tes requêtes (sauf peut être celle d'ouvrir aux autres marques... ca je n'y crois pas une seconde), ce boitier serait l'outil ultime pour l'astrophoto!
ZWO s'ouvrira presque certainement à d'autres constructeurs, la pression prendra effet. Étreintes
@@jesuspineiro1622 I personally use only ZWO gear, but I would love to see ZWO open the Asiair to other brands. As Cuiv is saying, it would be great for the AP community. Unfortunately I understand why they don't do so, but don't think they will change their mind about it.. but who knows? fingers crossed..
Thanks Alex! Yeah, I don't have much hope for #1... but I think the device really has a LOT of potential!
V informative Cuiv! I thoroughly agree with point #1. I did consider acquiring one some time ago - but its lack of compatibility with non-zwo products was a major turn off. Im sure at some point a company will develop a similar but more 'universally compatible' device??
Currently the closest candidate is Stellarmate - which I've been testing. It's far from being as intuitive as the ASIAIR though...
I strongly agree with your point 1, Open the darn thing up. I have multiple setups. 2 of the 3 are using zwo camera and filter wheel, the other is QHY. Neither of them are using zwo focuser (Junk in my book) I have Moonlite Nitecrawlers on 3 and Primalucelab on the other. My guide cameras are Loadstar so that 2 strikes against them sofar on hardware. Final strike is I use NINA and the asiair can NOT compare to the flexibility I have with NINA
I miss my old Moonlite focusers, those are truly amazingly crafted pieces of machinery!
Polar alignment: yea.. it would be nice to use plate solve and get a polar alignment that way. it is pretty flexible with the polar alignment already, but I would agree that there could be an option to use plate solving with 2-3 points for people who can't see Polaris.
Filters; can't say I had those issues. Or don't feel that dithering differently for every filter is really required. I dither every frame anyway. And I don't feel I have to change gain. This is all probably because I shoot narrowband anyway, and the difference is minor between those, so unity gain works.. same for the focus. differences in focus are minor between my narrowband filters. (larger if I switch to the LRGB filters) So you could perhaps turn off the focussing in between filters all together and focus on the time and temperature. But, I can't be a bad thing to focus once in a while anyway, it takes 2 minutes..
Sequencer: it already has improved LOADS.. the whole plan mode is new since a few months..
yes. The resets are annoying.. and more integration of the livestack in the other menu's, could be nice, but you might be asking a bit much to run plan mode, and live stack, all at the same time.
Something I want to see is better options. similar to like you said to certain degrees, I want them based on time. I can select a start time. I can select exposures and how many for a target. But I can't select an end TIME for a target to switch to the next one.
I'm shooting target one, and know that I want to switch to my second target at 02:30 in the morning. because that is when it comes into view.. But I can't select that. The only thing I can do is see how long it expects to run for target 1.. and add/subtract subs in order to roughly match the time to 02:30. But I'd love to just be able to tell it to shoot as many frames as possible until 02:30, and then switch to target 2 at 2:30, just to take the guess work out. And would perhaps be easier to implement than certain degrees or positions like your suggestion.
Guiding: I changed my settings myself. So... I haven't run into this issue. But, yes. It should be able to provide better default calibration given that it has all the needed information to do that. The dithering without guiding? meh.. I don't use the asiair without guiding, so not something I run into, but I can understand the benefit for portable setups.
Searching: Yes, it should be so much better.. it should be able to find things without having to need to go to Stellarium to find the catalog ID's... so.. YES..
Framing: yes, it's clunky. and could be more accurate. I tend to frame in Stellarium, and then use the RA and DEC from there and put those into the ASIAIR manually. It works, but something with a little more intergraten could help. But you might be limited to the power of the tablet/phone to do this.
Thanks for that feedback! In the end it really comes down to each person's preferences...!
Could you tell me what the physical reason is for the 33-minute time exposure limit for the ASI2600MC-Pro is please?
I have no idea! I didn't even know of that limit - have you tried asking ZWO?
Sorry to ask an ASI AIR amateur question. I was wondering if the PLUS will automatically guide for 8 different targets during 1 session - 1 hour each per target, or do I have to recalibrate for each new target? Thank you.
The centring tolerance gripe is my #1. Losing too much of the frame due to that. The other is having to Reset if i want to make any change to Autorun. Would like to see Synchronised Dither, Electronic rotator support (or even a ZWO rotator), ability to select a star manually for EAF Autofocus, meridian flip on demand, PEC training & playback.
Centering tolerance would indeed be great to have.. Also very good suggestions!
Great critique, Cuiv. Hopefully ZWO was listening, ( and I’m sure they were listening very intently to this video🤓). One mention to your last point of opening it up. Here’s an idea. Since NiNA encompasses all of the features that ASIAIR is lacking, perhaps a NINA hardware device could be developed along with accompanying NINA apps available on apple & android devices. That would be the game changer of all game changers.
That would be super cool! But NINA relies on .NET, and that makes it hard to be portable..
A simple firmware upgrade can incorporate plate solving to polar alignment. That’s a great idea.
Would be very nice - plus the source code to do so is all over the place :)
Is it possible to fully disable the meridian flip with the ASIAIR?
I have an Avalon mount and don't need a meridian flip with my setup.
I believe it's possible, but not completely sure!
These are all great ideas. I have seen all of the requested at some time or another. I think my only frustration is that ZWO has not implemented ideas faster. I am guessing they have a limited staff developing the software?
Your comment on allowing the plan to switch objects based on its altitude in the sky is a good one. I know I have set up plans that the object set before finished ruining some subs and waisting time because the system had difficulty doing its meridian flip or refocusing took too long.
Yes let us change gain between plans! lol been asking for this for a while.
Yes the guid calibration steps need work. The system should calculate the right resolution based on sensor and FL. I Wonder will doing calibration closer to the equator work better with its current situation?
For searching for targets a image with variable zoom based on your sensor and FL would be nice. Sometimes I go to an object and its way to cropped or way to small. Just like you mentioned.
I really wish the Air could tell me what angle my camera was at. So if rotating manual I could get it back in the same rotation. I think you mentioned that too.
Yes I totally agree. Pointing tolerance needs to be better. Longer centering exposures seam to help but not much.
Here is my biggest wish. It's similar to your last and largest wish. The DSLR intervalometer trigger port does NOTHING! Can we make it functional for piggy back astrophotography? That is my largest wish right now.
They could just make the ASIAIR software open source, then we'd take care of things :p
As to your biggest wish, I didn't even realize the intervalometer port didn't do anything! That seems like such a waste!! Why??
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I think they have simply been working on other aspects of it. Eventually it will come. I hope :)
I wish the power cord from the junction box to the unit was longer.
Cuiv, very good vid. However I would like to add one point which was not mentioned yet to my knowledge, the offline plan mode. I can not plan anything on my ipad without connecting to my Asiair. If I could do offline planning I would be very happy. Cheers Tom
Great video, I like your honesty about products and totally agree with item number one. It is the only reason I will not purchase an ASI Air, I just don't want to be tied into ZWO products. Like most people I want the flexibility of choice to enjoy this hobby. Thank you for everything you post.
Glad you enjoy! It's constructive criticism of course, but still I'd love to see more!
Great video. What is the little silver guidescope ? Is it any good?
It's the QHY miniGuideScope. It's simple, cheap, pretty bad (hey it's a guide scope!), but it works!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I wonder if it's worse than the ZWO mini guidescope.
@@hael8680 Probably the same!
Always been waiting for a dinfinitive feedback on this, although I only understood 10% of it (due to my lack of knowledge with automated setups) 😆 thanks Cuiv. PS skies looked overcast from the video btw 😁
Sorry it was a bit complex! I shot the video on two different days - one was overcast, the other perfectly clear :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek no worries Cuiv its actually my lack of knowledge with automated setups that is why some things are rocket science to me, the videos are fantastic 😉 Just started to get a decent mount (Celestron cgem that I got for about 580usd second hand, needs a bit of tuning), do you think for a starter like me without too many needs will Asiair cover the basics?
Although I think ASIAIR PRO added a big push to me and many others into easing Astrophotography procedures, after using it for almost one year now, I strongly agree with ALL your points and would include Two more, if I may. I have three setups: a mobile one using an Askar FMA180, and two fixed ones using a Skywatcher Evostar 72ED, and a Ritchey-Chretien 6. Well, the issue is, each time I switch from one setup to the other, I will need to reset all camera and imaging/guiding telescope parameters (FL, Gain, etc). 1- It would be nice o add a SETUP profile that we could choose from while starting up ASIAIR. 2- It also will be nice to have the ability to run the ASIAIR PRO software without having to physically connect the ASIAIR's power, but I suspect this one would be difficult to implement, as the software part seems to be just the User interface of the ASIAIR PRO itself. Just my two cents. Great work you're doing Cuiv!!! Salutations!
Oh yes those are two excellent suggestions! Equipment profile! With the ASIAIR Pro there is a workaround: just have a different micro-SD for each equipment profile (microSDs are so cheap these days, but not possible with the Plus though). And yes, being able to use the software without turning on the ASIAIR would be very nice!
Dude, amen on the better meridian flip settings. I hate that pause! Also, polar alignment anywhere in the sky would be huge. YES to the automated calibration step size. YES to adding the PHD2 guiding assistant…would love that backlash measurement that’s in the guiding assistant. YES to framing wizard! YES to better pointing tolerances…my biggest gripe as well (I tagged your Cuiv FB page on a post about it…would love your support on that post.) Totally agree with all of the other points, but the ones I mentioned above are the ones I find most important. One thing I’ll add is that I’d love to have the option to just stop tracking after the plan is over. I’d love to turn off the camera cooler, keep my dew heaters on (powered by AAP), and just stop tracking. Right now, I have to “return to home position” in order to stop tracking, and that’s just one unmonitored slew (risking cable snags) that I could avoid.
Somehow I still don't know how to answer posts with my official Cuiv page (and the Cuiv page is not joined to the ZWO group and I don't know how to do it)... but I answered personally in there...
Oh interesting idea on the stop tracking! I'm too scared of it ending up facing the rising sun, so I always prefer home position, but yes that works!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek pointing at the sun is a great point…I think every target I’ve ever imaged finishes up in the west at sunrise, but I can see how that could be a problem!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek you know what else would be nice? If the AAP could take short subs in a loop and display rotation angle, to make framing easier.
@@JeffHorne yesses, manual rotator!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek yes please! :)
Did anyone mention the ability to adjust Gain when changing filters, My SHO look great at 100% but when it moves to LRGB my stars explode. Need a way to set gain Per Filter.
Cuiv, how bad are the vibration issues and heat plumes from your balcony? Am considering a similar setup in order to clear some bothersome trees.
Pretty bad! But the seeing in Tokyo is usually terrible as well, so I'm not missing that much :D
Right on the money. People have been asking for support for other focuses for years. The INDI drivers are actually already present on the device, along with the INDI server. It is just the interface 'hiding' them. Maybe ZWO makes more profit out of EAF than ASIAIR, who knows.
Maybe they indeed make more profit out of the EAF than the ASIAIR! :)
The necessity of having a clear view of Polaris (or general area) is what made me opt for the PrimaLuceLab Eagle instead of the ASI Air. For people who, like myself, live in apartments that are south-faced, this is a complete deal-breaker, as Drift Alignment is our only hope of actually getting aligned.
Yep... Hopefully that's something they'll look into implementing...
there are a few things which I see that ASI could have doen better -
1 - there is no support for the QHYCCD Polemaster. The Polemaster performs better alignment over the ASI Air Plus (I have not tried the most recent version). The software that Polemaster has is a little out of date - but functional.
2 - I use my camera and lens as my main imaging device. This is not a big deal but having some logic where the ASI Air can use my ASI Guide Camera for feedback would be nice - I have to switch between my guide scope and imaging device in the menu. I have a Sony camera (A7R III) which was claimed to be supported but Sony being like Apple, does not play well with 3rd party vendors.
3 - Make the ASI Air more friendly to non-ASI devices.
4 - Include a power supply with your ASI Air. It surprised me that I had to order one after my ASI Air Plus arrived - having a notice that you needed one would have been nice at the time of order.
Hi, nice video! Iam using ASIair pro, what is the formula to determine the best calibration step ? Thanks a lot
github.com/OpenPHDGuiding/phd2/blob/master/calstep_dialog.cpp , from line 226 :)
Thanks so much! Take care !!!
It sounds like a good product providing you have all ZWO gear but i prefer the versatility of NINA. I know it will work with just about any product addition that I buy.
That's pretty much it!
Very insightful. As a year-long+ user of the ASI AIR Pro I completely agree with all of your suggestions. Let's hope ZWO is listening. I also think that ZWO may make a mount or mounts at some point. I feel the mount market is ripe for disruption and the recent foray by SharpStar is just the start. A $2k, sub 4 Kg, 12V harmonic mount (which the SharpStar is not) would clean up. (I'm contemplating buying the RA 135 but baulk at the price of what is a non-premium mount.) Is there a formula to calculate the calibration step from the guide scope FL and pixel size etc? Cheers, Des
For the calibration formula, check the PHD2 source code, line 226 github.com/OpenPHDGuiding/phd2/blob/master/calstep_dialog.cpp !
Thank you so much for this video.
It sounds good that ASIAIR team is looking at your suggestions. Hope they will update software for more flexible polar alignment.
Do you think it is possible to make a 3 star alignment with Skywatcher AZ-Gti and then continue the night with ASIAIR Pro?
I think that would work - use NINA or EKOS for the PA, then switch to the ASIAIR
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks for your reply.
You know and have used NINA. Is it possible that you could test it? 🙏🙏please
Agree with all of what you said. The ASIAIR is a great piece of kit, however there are definitely draw backs. I have both an ASIAIR and a mini-pc and I'm probably going to place the ASIAIR to the side for the time being. I'm not sure if I can really point to a reason why, other than just echoing some of the things you said, which is kind of a shame because I do love the ASIAIR in principal. Just in practice it feels like, for me, I get better use out of things like NINA.
Thanks for that feedback Tomec?
The ASIair seems like a product that would benefit setups where you want it compact, light and all in one. Personally I prefer using a NUC with NINA, and the other software I use. The ASIair is like getting a phone with everything installed.
Completely agree - it's just so darn convenient, especially for a mobile setup...
Hi,
You said that you can not set the same frame on following nights, well, there is an option to plate solve from an existing image, and as for composition, if you long press a point in the screen, the mount will slew there.
Yes - I covered those options on my previous video about the ASIAIR! But still, it centers with too high of a tolerance based on that - and same for the plan. The only workaround is to not use plans, but Autorun with a manual centering using the press and goto on the screen - still a very manual (and finicky) process, which could be easily fully automated with a tolerance parameter.
Excellent video like always! I believe there are other options today! Look it up, Pegasus from Greece and Eagle (prima luce lab) from Italy. I didn't test them myself so I could be 100% wrong! Clear skies!
I think the closest is Eagle (Pegasus are power boxes) - but really the simple interface of the ASIAIR has meant that I've been imaging more than usual, it's been really helpful!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek In the Prima Luce Lab channel, I think I understand that they will release an app "similar" to the ASIAIR! That would be a great thing, maybe ZWO will open their hardware when the market reach more than just them as astrophotography dedicated gear, when the market get like... 4 o 5 different brands they will change their mind!
Agree with all points (and a few I didn’t realize.) But, I’ll tell ya, I don’t think I would’ve dived so deep into the hobby without it. I would probably still be visual only if I hadn’t started out with the ASIAir Pro.
And, thank you, for such a thorough review, by the way. Your videos are always on target. Cheers!
Yes, exactly! The ASIAIR is such a great device for beginners - it just could be even better :D
@@CuivTheLazyGeek And that is why I’m so glad you did this video critique. They had to have seen it. And much of their customer base has replied in agreement. Pressure is on. Thanks!
I wish ASIAIR would work with iPolar and QHY Polmaster. A plug-in interface would be revolutionary.
Mmmmh I don't see much need, their polar alignment routine does work quite well and very quickly as it is (and this is after having tested iPolar)
Thanks Cuiv !! You have convinced me that the ASI Air is not for me. I do have a couple Altair cameras that I love and use quite frequently. I'll stick with NINA. Maybe someone can develop and come out with a NINA Air pro. 🤔 I'd buy that for a dollar. 😛
Yeah if you have Altair cameras and don't plan on selling them and buying ZWO products instead, the ASIAIR won't work for you - I still think that it's a great device... Otherwise I wouldn't be bothering to make suggestions like these :)
You can use previous image to frame the object. If you go in image management and select any image then there are options at the bottom to go to the target based on that image. I agree with you about almost all the points. Also, I read somewhere (not done it) that once you go to your desired image and say take a 30 secs image then tap on any part of image and ASIAIR is supposed to center the image at that point. They need to open the ASIAIR to non zwo products. I am using Optec focuser in other setup and would have gladly bought another ASIAIR but that means I cannot use Optec focuser. I just hope it doesn’t become another Microsoft v Apple battle. We all know how that turned out especially in computer world.
Yeah I covered those framing methods in my previous video - the problem with using a previous image is that it won't center it exactly the same due to the too generous tolerance. Which means you then need to adjust it with the hold and goto technique. But that means you have to use autoruns rather than reuse plans...
I've done both - use an image from a prior night to go exactly there for the current night; and for framing, you can move the object by tapping on the screen so indicate where you want the center of the frame to be.
I'm guessing others have already said this ... I'd *really* like a "night mode" option - to help save night vision during the run.
Thanks, Cuiv, for a fabulous, thoughtful video - as always.
Hi Cuiv Great vid you have raised some valid points and awesome the ZWO team will take on board your views/thoughts. I would also like to ask or anyone here are there shorter cables available that are shorter than standard cables that would be more suitable to the Asiair Pro and Plus concept.I have searched here there and everywhere to no avail for shorter cables that would help more with cable management as the idea is to connect upwards not down .The available stock standard cables do not help the concept,seeing many setups with some artistic looking cable designs tied up with whatever will keep them tidy .I think it would be great if ZWO could introduce a range of shorter cables to more suit this connect up method as the work has been refined with updates to the Zwo AsiAir Pro and Plus models but cable development has been left wanting.
That's a very good idea! Introduce a series of USB cables and power cables short and long you can buy separately!
I agree it is annoying you can't set the gain per filter, particularly when like I do you are mixing narrow band and broad band imaging in the same plan.
The plan mode is very new, it has only recently been added, its ok as V1.0. I hate the Plan reset loop every time I make a small change and I am forced to watch the scope refocus again. I like that I can frame up my shot by taking a preview and pointing with my finger to the centre I want. I like that when I make a plan and choose a custom target the ASIAR asks if I want to save and use the current position I have just pointed to in the plan - that was a cool thing to discover.
The meridian flip delay is very annoying but I accept it to have very reliable automation.
Why are you knocking the EAF? They are expensive for what they do but all astro-gear is expensive. It is a 100% better than using a bhatinov mask. Focusing is reliable and none of the three EAFs I use have large backlash. Most of the big backlash issues I found are because of poor focusers or not tightened screws. In any case there is nothing wrong with some backlash as long as it is stable - the algorithms handle it
I don't agree with you about the guiding quality. ASIAIR, I believe is targeted at portable and semi-portable setups. E.g. 750mm and shorter focal length scopes. The ASIAIr achieves most nights better that 1.5 arc second guiding on my HEQ5. If I am using a DSLR or any ASI camera I'm going to have round stars all the time. A bigger scope needs a bigger mount and you would invest in a PC or a NUC and run NINA :)
Both of my EAFs have a large amount of backlash, around 95 to 120 (measured by visually checking rotation of the EAF focuser shaft, not attached to anything else). Internally there's a lot of plastic in the mechanism, which is not a huge deal, but does mean backlash lottery... but also potential for the characteristics of the focuser to change over time (others have seen backlash suddenly increase dramatically - fortunately my EAFs have been fine for now).
Let's say it's a very far cry from a Moonlite.
As for the guiding, on the same mount, I get around 0.6" RMS with PHD2 multi-star guiding, and around 1.5" RMS with ASIAIR. And I am using it with a low focal length - even then there are excursions beyond my pixel resolution (RMS is a mean!) and that does impact the image...