I’m learning it again at 91 and you are very much like my teacher when I was 14! Many of the lovely suggestions that you give I can see on my music that my teacher also suggested. This is a truly beautiful beautiful Brahms work that’s stirs the soul.
I've worked on this truly gorgeous piece for about 12 months now. But listening to your video gives me so many other interesting ideas to think about. And all presented in such a clear and calm manner. Thanks so much 👍
What a beautiful and insightful presentation of this Intermezzo by Brahms. The comments are absolutely useful, as are the demonstrations of different ways to interpret phrases and notes and even whole sections. Any student, any composer, any performer would benefit from this in-depth and penetrating look at this Intermezzo!
What a wonderful teacher - as well as pianist and academic. Although (as a non-musician) I had always loved this Intermezzo, the analysis and skilled disection shown and taught here, has greatly enhanced my love for this piece. Thank you.
Love your interpretation. Thanks for taking the time to put this together and share your talents! I really learned a lot that I will be applying to my practice.
I have been enjoying learning this piece lately and immersing myself in its exquisite beauty ... and now I look forward to playing it again tomorrow with even more passion after listening to your wonderful insights. Thank you!
Thank you so very much for your wonderful instruction. I didn't think I was much interested in Brahms until I heard this composition a short time ago. Now, this beautiful work plays over and over in my mind and I'm determined to learn it . . . practicing daily after a long hiatus.
I've only noticed this as I'm returning to Brahms from a long absence. What doesn't come out in your explanation is the part of Brahms which is so difficult to achieve - there are often two or more melodies going on at the same time. The thing I find exhausting about Brahms is the attention to detail required, which you've hinted at but have tended to shy away from after dealing with one or two elements. Perhaps I am being a little unkind as the video covers much of value. But there are a few important points which I believe need to be made, if this isn't too rude: 1. the dynamic lilt in the piece is crucial. Almost everywhere outside of the midsection there is a continual rise and fall in dynamic expression, almost to the point of seasickness. Failing in this regard is like playing Schubert's violin sonatinas without vibrato. It's also the reason why a slower tempo is important. 2: The tendency to excessive density in the accompaniment often occurs because people forget that pedal-sustain is vastly more effective in modern instruments. Those counter-melodies which the left hand is shot through with are often lost because pedal sustain is used for mushy sustain rather than a means to achieve otherwise impossible legatos or lingering chord structures. The trick is to work out where those melodies are and shy away from using the pedal so you can accentuate the left-hand melodies, but otherwise employ the pedal for sustain-effect elsewhere. But make sure you under-utilize the pedal rather than overdo it. 3: After the midsection the dynamics are still pianissimo, even if you're no longer using the soft pedal. Yet you seem to give the implication that somehow you can launch into the following section with aplomb. That's not what is marked. You start pp and build until the second time round, some four bars later, which you can launch into after building from almost nothing. 4: [you can take this part with a pinch of salt if you like] At the start of the piece (and recapitulation) there isn't just a single melody in the right hand. There are two. Brahms developed this technique of competing and complementing melodies, I believe taking inspiration from Schumann's Warum? (op 12 no 3) and other works. He uses the same technique in Op118 no 5, but there it is more explicit. This means you need to give both lines prominence - or alternate their prominence - rather than just concentrate on the top one. It also explains why your suggestion that the F# jump in bars 3, 11, and elsewhere should be started on the beat rather than before makes more sense, as the lower falling A-G#-F# melody is arguably the primary motif for the whole piece. In the same way your suggestion that the final phrase melody is C#-B-then up to the higher sounds quite incongruous in a piece of this nature. I know this may sound a bit fringe and crazy, but consider this: Why did Brahms separate the two right-hand lines in these cases (and particularly at the start) - the lower notes are explicitly given different stalks from the upper ones? Furthermore, consider the top line as being compromised by the lower one, so that the upper line would naturally just descend C#-B-A downwards, with a following jump up an octave to the higher A. But with the introduction of the secondary A-G#-F# line below it this is almost unplayable, so the upper line misses the lower A and jumps straight to the upper one. Jumps of a seventh in a primary melody set in contrary direction to the overall melody are rare up to this point, and almost unheard of among conservative composers, of which Brahms is almost the epitome. With an understanding of an implied but silent lower A in the initial melody, the interpretation of the final melodic line of C#-B-D, C#-B-A-upperA suddenly makes all he sense in the world. All in all this is technically straight-forward to play but so dense with stylistic possibilities that you could take a lifetime and still never quite master it. Play it too sweetly and it sounds lame. Play it appassionata (which is an ever-present temptation) and you will lose the exquisite detail in the arrangement. IMHO if you play this and don't end the piece emotionally exhausted and covered with sweat then you're missing something. YMMV...
i agree with some of the points you made but i have to strongly disagree with others. you're definitely right on how there are two melodies at the start, brahms was a master of counterpoint and the beginning is simply his masterful counterpoint at work. he has a main melody (C# B D) and a complement melody (A G# F#) but clearly the former has to be the one in the foreground. "the lower falling A-G#-F# melody is arguably the primary motif for the whole piece" could you explain how you came to this conclusion as to me, brahms makes it painfully obvious that the C# B D motif is the most important one - he puts it in the bass (08:51) and inverses it (11:39) and ends the piece with it. "But with the introduction of the secondary A-G#-F# line below it this is almost unplayable" i don't see how that would impede the pianist from playing C# B A, that would just be descending thirds. "Jumps of a seventh in a primary melody set in contrary direction to the overall melody are rare up to this point, and almost unheard of among conservative composers, of which Brahms is almost the epitome" i agree it was indeed a rather rare melodic interval but you should realise that this was one of brahms's last few pieces, and he was more revolutionary than you think! the leap up to the A is such a poignant and difficult melody for a singer and that was exactly what brahms had wanted, a feeling of struggle but beauty. perhaps giving both lines prominence would be an interesting interpretation but so far from all the pianists i've heard, none have done that to an audible extent (and that includes glenn gould, master of giving prominence to hidden lines!) and personally i wouldn't do that myself. it would sound forced and would rob the beauty away from a single beautiful melodic line.
4:37 I usually play the F sharp ok right thumb on the beat, then the basstone (A) and then the melody A. So the basstone doesn't come on the beat, but "inside" the big jump
Clive, you present this with such sensitive insight! It's so illuminating on many levels, especially harmonically. I really appreciate your gift of sharing this and your other tutorials with other musicians and music lovers!
The most direct and helpful video on this piece for me. I have small hands so the points you made were especially appreciated, made sense, and will be applied. Thank you for taking the time share your insights!
Thanks a lot ! I've got piano exams for June and I need to play this but I lost interest in it before the first french lockdown, and now I can't see my teacher again... This really helps me understand the piece, thanks for your free online lesson !
Do you mean a Pleyel? It's possible that it's a better match to Brahm's favoured Streicher piano, which was apparently much lighter in tone than a modern German grand when played softly. I find most Steinwayish performances of Brahms get very bang-crashy but still muddy at the bottom as there's too much attack in the note, even when played softly.
Thank you so much for the video. It's very helpful. I still haven't started it yet. I'm actually a little nervous about starting this hehe. I haven't played any Brahms in my entire piano journey. His technique is very new to me. I can tell he loves echoing his notes with SO MANY notes and with small hands this is going to be a little challenging for me. Going to give it a go, because I absolutely adore this piece and the way he tells his story really. Heartbreaking in some parts but then there's a little hope in there too. Just wonderful.
For a small hand (very small), would it be possible to delay/slow down the left hand a little to compensate or to correct any abruptness that might occur for that very big stretch?
Definitely, Cup. The high A sounds more expressive anyway if it is a little 'late'. Try to use forearm rotation to move in an arc from the F sharp to the A, rather than lifting and jumping.
A very interesting tutorial I must say , I could be played by a string quartet or quintet or by singers, The whole story about the harmonic changes (what is theory) He changes from this to that, Did Brahms think off this when He wrote the piece. It came out more or less spontainously. However Brahms was a troubled man with the gift to show it all in music
It's interesting how some see Brahms as such a dramatic but almost aggressive of composers, but I love this piece which shows so much depth in his feelings and I feel very sad with listening to this piece but also in a beautiful way... I struggle at times to even listen to it to throughout without getting a little tearful as it makes me feel such ( loss ) almost as if he lost someone very dear to him and learning to - let go , which we all in life struggle to do.... Thanks again Clive for sharing this tutorial. I would most certainly say one of my all time favourite pieces with almost everything inside it , like a small book with many chapters surprisingly inside. There is also one piece that is similar with sensitivity and love , but quite technical which is Rachmaninoff prelude In Bb op 23 no 2 The run down of broken octave arpeggios and the left hand bass notes with so much sensitive vocal lines... Now I'm rambling on as I love all this music 😊 Lance.
@@pianoinsights6092 Well yes most certainly, my partner had a severe accident and music was part of my escape from reality at times music in many ways is just as real as reality itself... This piece by Brahms is one of a very deep feeling I'm always going to be on that journey of learning to - let go and is part of grieving.
@@pianoinsights6092 sorry Clive that wasn't typed clearly... My partner has in ways recovered , but has suffered a severe brain injury... So I'm sure you can understand in some ways in m partly grieving.... Thanks for you kind words...
@@pianoinsights6092 I'm just recently listened first time to a beautiful piece by Paderewski - Nocturne in Bb . It has a graceful suttleness about it with a lovely melody line in the left hand...
At the Tempo I in the middle section, why do you play suddenly forte? Brahms simply writes 'tre corde' followed by a crescendo to a forte. And why do you suggest soft pedal early in the piece and don't mention it when Brahms actually indicates it - in the F sharp major section?
Great insights and ideas on approaching this piece. Thank you. Tempo through the piece is one aspect you didn't address much, which I started paying attention to in my playing; and I am trying to figure out what is ideal tempo throughout parts of this piece (besides the marked ritardandos and piu lento's). Playing it with a metronome was an interesting exercise just to be aware how much my tempo was changing in some parts. I was speeding up after measure 16 at C maj after the first part, and in the left hand after the high note around measure 22. After realizing how much my temp was changing more than I realized (where tempo change wasn't marked), and hearing different recorded interpretations, I'm still working on deciding what I think is best on tempo variation throughout the piece.
Thanks Troy. I agree with your ideas about the C major section. The harmonies move more slowly and a more flowing tempo definitely fits nicely, within limits of course. Tempo is such a personal thing, but I find that I enjoy great ranges of tempi in different performers, as long as they 'make their case', win me over. That's the challenge: to find a tempo which convinces you and therefore is more likely to convince others.
I can see how this music is a minefield where at any moment you fail because of an insensitivity resulting in loss of clarity. The left hand voicings seem very different to anything I would use in an improvisation, particularly with so much pedal.
I’m learning it again at 91 and you are very much like my teacher when I was 14! Many of the lovely suggestions that you give I can see on my music that my teacher also suggested. This is a truly beautiful beautiful Brahms work that’s stirs the soul.
I`m 80 and started to learn it last week - its a beautifull piece of music
I've worked on this truly gorgeous piece for about 12 months now. But listening to your video gives me so many other interesting ideas to think about. And all presented in such a clear and calm manner. Thanks so much 👍
What a beautiful and insightful presentation of this Intermezzo by Brahms. The comments are absolutely useful, as are the demonstrations of different ways to interpret phrases and notes and even whole sections. Any student, any composer, any performer would benefit from this in-depth and penetrating look at this Intermezzo!
Thanks Mary Carol! I very much appreciate your comments.
What a wonderful teacher - as well as pianist and academic. Although (as a non-musician) I had always loved this Intermezzo, the analysis and skilled disection shown and taught here, has greatly enhanced my love for this piece. Thank you.
Love your interpretation. Thanks for taking the time to put this together and share your talents! I really learned a lot that I will be applying to my practice.
An EXCELLENT analysis of this wonderful piece! Thank you so much! I never tire of hearing it.
Thank you for your insights!
Thank you so much for making this video!
Loved this video!
I have been enjoying learning this piece lately and immersing myself in its exquisite beauty ... and now I look forward to playing it again tomorrow with even more passion after listening to your wonderful insights. Thank you!
Thank you for sharing such an inspiring tutorial, with so many useful insights and practical suggestions
Beautiful and inspiring This piece is sublime Brahms absolutely flourished in his later years. Thanks again. :-)
I am working on this now and found your video very helpful and insightful. Thank you!
Great video! Thank you so much
Thank you so very much for your wonderful instruction. I didn't think I was much interested in Brahms until I heard this composition a short time ago. Now, this beautiful work plays over and over in my mind and I'm determined to learn it . . . practicing daily after a long hiatus.
2:41 OMG THE CAT SO CUTE OWO
Dear Sir, I am playing this for my third year university exam. Thank you for this. It was incredibly helpful.
Sincerely,
Kutlwano
I've only noticed this as I'm returning to Brahms from a long absence. What doesn't come out in your explanation is the part of Brahms which is so difficult to achieve - there are often two or more melodies going on at the same time. The thing I find exhausting about Brahms is the attention to detail required, which you've hinted at but have tended to shy away from after dealing with one or two elements. Perhaps I am being a little unkind as the video covers much of value. But there are a few important points which I believe need to be made, if this isn't too rude:
1. the dynamic lilt in the piece is crucial. Almost everywhere outside of the midsection there is a continual rise and fall in dynamic expression, almost to the point of seasickness. Failing in this regard is like playing Schubert's violin sonatinas without vibrato. It's also the reason why a slower tempo is important.
2: The tendency to excessive density in the accompaniment often occurs because people forget that pedal-sustain is vastly more effective in modern instruments. Those counter-melodies which the left hand is shot through with are often lost because pedal sustain is used for mushy sustain rather than a means to achieve otherwise impossible legatos or lingering chord structures. The trick is to work out where those melodies are and shy away from using the pedal so you can accentuate the left-hand melodies, but otherwise employ the pedal for sustain-effect elsewhere. But make sure you under-utilize the pedal rather than overdo it.
3: After the midsection the dynamics are still pianissimo, even if you're no longer using the soft pedal. Yet you seem to give the implication that somehow you can launch into the following section with aplomb. That's not what is marked. You start pp and build until the second time round, some four bars later, which you can launch into after building from almost nothing.
4: [you can take this part with a pinch of salt if you like] At the start of the piece (and recapitulation) there isn't just a single melody in the right hand. There are two. Brahms developed this technique of competing and complementing melodies, I believe taking inspiration from Schumann's Warum? (op 12 no 3) and other works. He uses the same technique in Op118 no 5, but there it is more explicit. This means you need to give both lines prominence - or alternate their prominence - rather than just concentrate on the top one. It also explains why your suggestion that the F# jump in bars 3, 11, and elsewhere should be started on the beat rather than before makes more sense, as the lower falling A-G#-F# melody is arguably the primary motif for the whole piece. In the same way your suggestion that the final phrase melody is C#-B-then up to the higher sounds quite incongruous in a piece of this nature. I know this may sound a bit fringe and crazy, but consider this: Why did Brahms separate the two right-hand lines in these cases (and particularly at the start) - the lower notes are explicitly given different stalks from the upper ones? Furthermore, consider the top line as being compromised by the lower one, so that the upper line would naturally just descend C#-B-A downwards, with a following jump up an octave to the higher A. But with the introduction of the secondary A-G#-F# line below it this is almost unplayable, so the upper line misses the lower A and jumps straight to the upper one. Jumps of a seventh in a primary melody set in contrary direction to the overall melody are rare up to this point, and almost unheard of among conservative composers, of which Brahms is almost the epitome. With an understanding of an implied but silent lower A in the initial melody, the interpretation of the final melodic line of C#-B-D, C#-B-A-upperA suddenly makes all he sense in the world.
All in all this is technically straight-forward to play but so dense with stylistic possibilities that you could take a lifetime and still never quite master it. Play it too sweetly and it sounds lame. Play it appassionata (which is an ever-present temptation) and you will lose the exquisite detail in the arrangement. IMHO if you play this and don't end the piece emotionally exhausted and covered with sweat then you're missing something. YMMV...
i agree with some of the points you made but i have to strongly disagree with others. you're definitely right on how there are two melodies at the start, brahms was a master of counterpoint and the beginning is simply his masterful counterpoint at work. he has a main melody (C# B D) and a complement melody (A G# F#) but clearly the former has to be the one in the foreground.
"the lower falling A-G#-F# melody is arguably the primary motif for the whole piece" could you explain how you came to this conclusion as to me, brahms makes it painfully obvious that the C# B D motif is the most important one - he puts it in the bass (08:51) and inverses it (11:39) and ends the piece with it.
"But with the introduction of the secondary A-G#-F# line below it this is almost unplayable" i don't see how that would impede the pianist from playing C# B A, that would just be descending thirds.
"Jumps of a seventh in a primary melody set in contrary direction to the overall melody are rare up to this point, and almost unheard of among conservative composers, of which Brahms is almost the epitome" i agree it was indeed a rather rare melodic interval but you should realise that this was one of brahms's last few pieces, and he was more revolutionary than you think! the leap up to the A is such a poignant and difficult melody for a singer and that was exactly what brahms had wanted, a feeling of struggle but beauty.
perhaps giving both lines prominence would be an interesting interpretation but so far from all the pianists i've heard, none have done that to an audible extent (and that includes glenn gould, master of giving prominence to hidden lines!) and personally i wouldn't do that myself. it would sound forced and would rob the beauty away from a single beautiful melodic line.
4:37 I usually play the F sharp ok right thumb on the beat, then the basstone (A) and then the melody A. So the basstone doesn't come on the beat, but "inside" the big jump
Clive, you present this with such sensitive insight! It's so illuminating on many levels, especially harmonically. I really appreciate your gift of sharing this and your other tutorials with other musicians and music lovers!
Thanks so much, Connie.
Your demonstrations and interpretations are so very helpful, Clive!
The most direct and helpful video on this piece for me. I have small hands so the points you made were especially appreciated, made sense, and will be applied. Thank you for taking the time share your insights!
Thanks Peter.
Thanks a lot ! I've got piano exams for June and I need to play this but I lost interest in it before the first french lockdown, and now I can't see my teacher again... This really helps me understand the piece, thanks for your free online lesson !
I’ve just begun to work on this gorgeous piece and very much appreciate your guidance. Thank you.
You are so welcome,Tom!
This is a very helpful lesson. I especially liked the suggested image of falling leaves. Thank you!
Thanks, Matt.
I heard this played on a straight-strung Playell piano; the contrapuntal texture was greatly improved
Do you mean a Pleyel? It's possible that it's a better match to Brahm's favoured Streicher piano, which was apparently much lighter in tone than a modern German grand when played softly. I find most Steinwayish performances of Brahms get very bang-crashy but still muddy at the bottom as there's too much attack in the note, even when played softly.
Thank you so much for the video. It's very helpful. I still haven't started it yet. I'm actually a little nervous about starting this hehe. I haven't played any Brahms in my entire piano journey. His technique is very new to me. I can tell he loves echoing his notes with SO MANY notes and with small hands this is going to be a little challenging for me. Going to give it a go, because I absolutely adore this piece and the way he tells his story really. Heartbreaking in some parts but then there's a little hope in there too. Just wonderful.
My best wishes to you. It's SO well worth it!
@@pianoinsights6092 Thank you so much! Motivation boost!
讲得真好呀老师
Love the kitty cat too.
For a small hand (very small), would it be possible to delay/slow down the left hand a little to compensate or to correct any abruptness that might occur for that very big stretch?
Definitely, Cup. The high A sounds more expressive anyway if it is a little 'late'. Try to use forearm rotation to move in an arc from the F sharp to the A, rather than lifting and jumping.
@@pianoinsights6092 I'll try! Thank you so much :)
Its incredibly useful
Thanks, Irene.
A very interesting tutorial I must say , I could be played by a string quartet or quintet or by singers, The whole story about the harmonic changes (what is theory) He changes from this to that, Did Brahms think off this when He wrote the piece. It came out more or less spontainously. However Brahms was a troubled man with the gift to show it all in music
It's interesting how some see Brahms as such a dramatic but almost aggressive of composers, but I love this piece which shows so much depth in his feelings and I feel very sad with listening to this piece but also in a beautiful way...
I struggle at times to even listen to it to throughout without getting a little tearful as it makes me feel such ( loss ) almost as if he lost someone very dear to him and learning to - let go , which we all in life struggle to do.... Thanks again Clive for sharing this tutorial.
I would most certainly say one of my all time favourite pieces with almost everything inside it , like a small book with many chapters surprisingly inside.
There is also one piece that is similar with sensitivity and love , but quite technical which is Rachmaninoff prelude
In Bb op 23 no 2
The run down of broken octave arpeggios and the left hand bass notes with so much sensitive vocal lines...
Now I'm rambling on as I love all this music 😊
Lance.
Thanks, Lance. It's very interesting to hear how certain music affects people's feelings.
@@pianoinsights6092
Well yes most certainly, my partner had a severe accident and music was part of my escape from reality at times music in many ways is just as real as reality itself... This piece by Brahms is one of a very deep feeling I'm always going to be on that journey of learning to - let go and is part of grieving.
I am so sorry to hear about your loss.
@@pianoinsights6092 sorry Clive that wasn't typed clearly... My partner has in ways recovered , but has suffered a severe brain injury... So I'm sure you can understand in some ways in m partly grieving....
Thanks for you kind words...
@@pianoinsights6092
I'm just recently listened first time to a beautiful piece by Paderewski - Nocturne in Bb . It has a graceful suttleness about it with a lovely melody line in the left hand...
LOL. I had to scroll through many of your videos to find your name! I came rather close to Clive Swansbourne with "Klaus Vonflum", didn't I? Haha ;)
Excellent. I've been working on this piece for about one month. Very helpful indeed. Thank you.
You're very welcome Greg!
Omg I should have found this earlier! You’ve literally analysed everything I’m studying recently! Thank you so much
Do not feel bad!; study biographies, that will offer you so information!! ; and will help you approach a composition with honesty!!
At the Tempo I in the middle section, why do you play suddenly forte? Brahms simply writes 'tre corde' followed by a crescendo to a forte. And why do you suggest soft pedal early in the piece and don't mention it when Brahms actually indicates it - in the F sharp major section?
I'm struggling with the part where there's triplets in one hand and eighth notes in the other TwT any tips?
Great insights and ideas on approaching this piece. Thank you. Tempo through the piece is one aspect you didn't address much, which I started paying attention to in my playing; and I am trying to figure out what is ideal tempo throughout parts of this piece (besides the marked ritardandos and piu lento's). Playing it with a metronome was an interesting exercise just to be aware how much my tempo was changing in some parts. I was speeding up after measure 16 at C maj after the first part, and in the left hand after the high note around measure 22. After realizing how much my temp was changing more than I realized (where tempo change wasn't marked), and hearing different recorded interpretations, I'm still working on deciding what I think is best on tempo variation throughout the piece.
Thanks Troy. I agree with your ideas about the C major section. The harmonies move more slowly and a more flowing tempo definitely fits nicely, within limits of course. Tempo is such a personal thing, but I find that I enjoy great ranges of tempi in different performers, as long as they 'make their case', win me over. That's the challenge: to find a tempo which convinces you and therefore is more likely to convince others.
What piano do you have?
It's a 1970 Yamaha concert grand.
I can see how this music is a minefield where at any moment you fail because of an insensitivity resulting in loss of clarity. The left hand voicings seem very different to anything I would use in an improvisation, particularly with so much pedal.
It seems like Brahms named his pieces like astronomers name astral bodies. [weird cluster of letter] + [randomly generated numbers] = presto.
너무 좋은 야마하 그랜드 피아노로 저도 갖고 싶어요.저의 로망이에요.브람스op118no2번 저도 어려워도 연습해요.
10:44
Some wonderful insights. I do think you're playing it too fast. It sounds rushed to me - particularly the f#m section.
Is your name Klaus Vonflum? Please enunciate your last name so that people can understand it. Thank you. Lovely video.
Over the phone I have to spell it out mostly. Enunciating it doesn't seem to help.. just one of those things.
PS Love your cat socks!
The cat wins.
No soft pedal - tone control - and the left hand needs to be much stronger to give the harmonic counterpoint
Thank you so much for making this video!