Magician (Book Review) - by Raymond E. Feist
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- My review of Magician by Raymond E. Feist. A fantasy novel.
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Considering that Magician was the first book Feist ever wrote, and that it was a "let me try my hand at writing part-time and see if I'm any good at it" scenario, the book blows my mind. If you read his own comments in his "Authors Preferred Edition" he acknowledges that Magician has flaws and that he made many mistakes as an author. He has certainly grown and developed as an author, and Magician has a very special place in my heart for what he achieved with it. The fact remains: Magician (while far from perfect) has been the inspiration a number of subsequent authors who have also delivered some amazing works.
You have to read the riftwar saga in completion so magican, silverthorn, and a darkness at sethanon, To start getting a sense of the characters. His main character pug spans 25 books that are all intertwined. Keep reading your not even close to being done
I could not agree with you more. Man when he was talking about lack of character development i just wanted to scream, 'Jimmy the Hand' over and over.
Yup, just found this guy and great videos but i disagree with this one.
Still...the charecter developing in this book is weak. You cant review book one using other books that will come after as reference. Makes sense if you are reviewing the series of course...
PicMus I just finished the original Riftwar trilogy and Krondor’s Sons. I like the characters, but I think (especially in Magician) they do kind of come fully formed right out of the box. Pug, Jimmy, the twins, and Nicholas go through some growth, but not much of anyone else (especially Arutha’s party in Silverthorn and Setathon). Also glaring is that the women DO NOTHING except show up as love at first sight for our heroes when there’s a good spot in the book for it. They each have their own personality, but the main drivers of the plot and their primary allies are universally men. That may change when Feist gets a female co-writer for the Empire books and maybe his writing evolves with the time, but I’m probably not going to stick around to find out. Also the climaxes almost always have a magician (Macros, Pug, Natal, Pug) show up to explain things and save the day in a way that’s not entirely satisfying.
@@Hoffmanniac I agree with pretty much everything you said, I've read most of Feist's work involving Pug and Tomas. You can tell he wasn't excited about the story in the books toward the end of the series, and he recycles characters just by having their great grandson having a similar name and personality. However, the Empire trilogy is probably my all time favourite and I highly recommend you give it a look. Mara of the Acoma (the protagonist) is one of my all-time favourite fantasy characters and she deserves your time
Jimmy the Hand (also James) is one of my most favorite characters. You should read at least the rest of this arc, the Riftwar Saga.
Couldn't agree more darling. Go Raymond!
I would recommend reading all the way through the serpentwar saga too..
Jimmy Hand is just as fun and amazing as Jimmy The Hand.
I Freaking Love Jimmy the Hand he is my favorite as well. I did not read these books until after this review and now I'm like WTF is he talking about I LOVE the Characters and totally have stock in them and feel like I know them usually I sort of agree with what he says but with this one I'm like Did you and I read the same Books
Yes. Totally agree with you. From the things he mentioned on the review, sounds like he only read a few books. You have to read all books from all characters to really understand the point of view of all characters. Riftwar saga was just to explain the world for the reader and Raymond starts building from there creating sagas and branching stories per character that all connects on The Magician's End. I read all 33 books. I didn't enjoy all of them, but I read to understand the events that fold on them. All main characters have entire books dedicated for them. I understand that you can see characters changing a lot the personality but is understandable considering the amount of time passes through the whole history.
I really liked Magican, Silverthorn and A Darkness At Sethanon but I LOVED the Empire Trilogy he wrote with Janny Wurts. That series takes place at the same time as Magician, but is written from the POV of a 'Lord' of the Empire.
Agreed. Also the trilogy after. Hard to get character development from one book. Not sure why he thought he would. Thomas had great development in magician and pug's development over the next trilogy is fantastic.
His best work is probably the Serpent war books, those four are real Genius, Erik and Roo are so relate-able
Totally agree about the Empire Trilogy
I came here hoping Daniel had read the Empire trilogy, and super happy to see this comment. Haha. Suuuuuper love the Empire trilogy. Doing a re-read of it now.
@@hammerhiem75 YES. The serpent war is incredible. Especially the merchant prince. I was just as enthralled by roos rise to monetary power as I was to the battle scenes.
Imagine stopping at Magician and never meet Jimmy the Hand... One of the best character Fantasy have to offer. Imagine stopping at Magician without knowing that this is just an intro and that Master, Silverthorn and Sethanon are amazing! Master is the best of them all where you really meet the Pug you need to meet. Imagine stopping at Magician and never follow the amazing arc of Arutha or Martin. You need Jimmy the Hand in your life Daniel...
I read this in my early twenties and have reread it and it's sequels many times. You have about another 29 books to go to finish the series, I envy your journey for the first time.
Magician is my favorite book, I've never read one that was so immersive, and exciting. I would 10/10 reccomend to anyone looking to buy the books!
Agree
I read this book when I was 14. Thought it was really good. The subsequent books really expand in the ground work laid down in Magician.
SlippyFox agree 100% the sequels grow the characters and world exponentially, first is arguably the worst of the lot for the flaws Daniel has listed
@@xr8dmoose135 hey fair comment, how far/reading order do you have to read up to when it reaches its pinnacle
Alrighty chums here we go. So first, and I saw this mentioned in the comments below, you have to at least finish Silverthorn & Darkness at Sethanon to even begin to see these characters development. If you really felt that was the weakest point of the first book then I would definitely encourage you to finish the first series out and see how the continued development goes.
I actually mentioned in your review for your personal top 10 series about these and man I hope you do continue with the books. The Serpentwar Saga goes down as one of my all time favorites with the way he expands his worldbuilding, new characters introduced and the epic sorts that he has carry on.
Basically all that to say this: I double dog dare you to finish out through A Darkness at Sethanon and then re-review the series as a whole. If you still feel sort of meh about the whole thing then don't carry on. But I doubt you will.
On top of which, because i'm so passionate about this particular series, I'll give you my audible login info so you can just burn through them that way.
DOUBLE DOG DARE!!
This is exactly how I feel lol
@@chacepassmore6474 I Only just read the books after seeing this review and am think WTF was he talking about he was Waay WAAAAAY off I freaking Love the Characters Jimmy the Hand being my Favorite I was thinking did he and I even read the same books and I a Noticing Most people feel that same way
@@chrismiksworld That's what I'm saying bro! Like dude....how are you not mesmerized by these books rn
I realize this review was done a year ago and you're probably never going to read this, but, for those just seeing this review like I did here is my takeaway.
I started this series as a set given to me by a neighbor who knew I loved to read when I was in high school. They only gave me Magician: Master through Darkness at Sethanon. I didn't even know there was a starter book called Magician: Apprentice. By the time I had read the 3 I had I was eager to read the first one. When I finally tracked a copy down and read it I was like....well I'm glad I didn't read that one first!
It's not "bad" really just not super character driven. I think having it split into 2 books really did it a disservice. The first "book" is all of the building and set up. While the second part is where we really start to see the characters.
I was able to read the 2nd part and kind of pic up on what happened in the 1st because of how well it was written. If I had read the 1st part 1st I might not have continued.
I LOVE his work however. He gets better the more he writes
Magician: Apprentice and Magician: Master are the author's preferred edition, they added quite a lot back into the book that the original edited out for length. I thought the characters were fairly well developed, but I may have just developed them in my own mind, and I'm quite biased, I started the series when I was 9 and have read all of the books many times. I think Guy du BasTyra is one of the best antagonists ever, and I still want to be Martin Longbow when I grow up. And then there's Kulgan and Tully.
actually it comes in both forms, in the US for a long time you couldnt get a single volume version, that changed years after the authors preferred editions came out, the single volumes you will find now are going to be the authors preferred edition, single or dual volume.
and, i liked where he went with guy, from enemy and antagonist to friend and ally, and, i could list so many chars even ones form side stories like patrus who i can remember clearly from all those years ago.
hell, my first book by feist wasnt his first, it was the first first krondor book based on the game, and, by the end of that trip, i had managed to get the first books at a used book store we came across on the trip, good times...
now days, i have ALL of his works on my SD card in my phone... i can drop back into the series any time... and... have been tempted to do it again.
people who like LOTR and Harry Potter, tend to get me telling them to read the first 3/4 books of this series and tell me what they think when doing a compare and contrast... those who have... not a one has come back without wanting the rest of the books...one... i sent a water damaged copy of the first 1/2 of the first book.. he dug change out of his couch the 3rd day after it arrived, a few chairs... and collected up some books he knew he would never open again, and went to the used book store a few blocks away... the gal not only was able to give him the rest of the first series in trade, but replaced the water damaged copy after seeing its condition... she also gave him a few of the other feist books she had... then showed him her collection of first edition hard covers... 2 sets 1 never opened, one shes read many times.. she also had harry potter, the shanara books, and some other classics.....dragon riders of pern..... when he came to visit he ended up taking me back with him almost 4hrs south of here.. so i got to meet the book store gal.. and brought her a bunch of books... she let me rip all the audio books she had used copies of on cd, and just wanted a copy for herself on mp3-cd for her car, "sold", she traded me some books i brought in for some i wanted, turned out her books are all signed by the authors for feist, tolkien and a few others, and she moved the collectors books into a safer location just incase... when she found out how much a couple were worth due to being part of the first run of first editions and being signed... feist apparently signed and sent her books over the years after they met and he was so happy to hear she had used his books as part of a college course she use to teach.... (she retired due to being tired of having white girls yell at her for being white...when shes actually native american..by over 3/4 no less..)
Silverthorn and A Darkness At Sethanon get into the characters a lottt more. Especially Arutha!
Yesssss
Obviously super late to the party on this one, but I just finished reading Magicians End, the final book in the series, and I am devastated that it's come to an end. I implore you to read the rest of the first trilogy at the very least. These books get better and better with every iteration. The character development is itself develops more and more the farther in you go. As an avid fantasy reader and reviewer, you are doing yourself and your channel a disservice by not at least reading Silverthorne and A Darkness at Sethanon.
And most of all, to review a series of books that started 30 years ago, after they have finished, based solely on the first book is so lack luster. Read more of the series and rethink your review my friend, because you are going to love the character progression the more you read.
I hate to be that guy, but you really have to read the second book before you can judge it as a whole. I feel. Certain characters really get their proper development in the second book and going forward.
His Serpent-War series (same world) is even better.
I just read the first 5 over the last month of so, but I kind of agree with the video. Book 2&3 spend a lot of time with Arutha and his gang, and while I like those characters and Arutha in particular, only Jimmy and Locklear really change. Based on your word and these other comments, I will give Serpentwar a shot, because I do like the writing despite that criticism.
Granted, having read the whole Riftwar Saga collectively my first time and trying to remember just the magician is hard, but I could have sworn that Pug was life like dealing with his failures and growth as a mage. Did you say you read the original version? I read the the 10 year 2 volume version. I was weird and read the intro. The idea was that in that transition from classic to modern fantasy the publisher cut a lot from the first book when first it was originally written. The 2 volume version is sort of the director's cut of the books, putting back in much of what was cut from the author's original story. If you read the single volume version it is possible that is why you missed out some of that character development you felt was lacking.
I Only just read the books after seeing this review and am think WTF was he talking about he was Waay WAAAAAY off I freaking Love the Characters Jimmy the Hand being my Favorite I was thinking did he and I even read the same books and I a Noticing Most people feel that same way
Raymond Feist and his Rift War Saga and beyond stands out for me as one of my favorite fantasy series, and the reason for that is the world building and the characters. I love the characters in this series, some more than others, but I think you found it lacking because just reading Magician is just a peek into the beginning of this world. The growth of various characters, seeing them change through life, seeing the legacy they leave behind in later books is what makes this world so precious. Its like watching your family grow. Magician sets up the backbone for those who go on to shape the world. The only reason this series doesn't stand out as my absolute favorite is that much much later in the series the story starts to "jump the shark" for me, but there are a plethora of tales to enjoy before getting to that point.
I think I've ranted enough on a fairly old video and I am knew to looking into your channel, after finding it looking for WoT tv show news, but thank you for taking the time to read and review a book close to my heart.
My favorite character is Nakor. He's weird and funny but at the same time very mysterious and wise. When he's around there is always something funny or unexpected happening. He is a magician who denies the existence of magic and I just find that hilarious.
One of the best characters in fantasy. I messed up chronologically and so missed when he first came into it so I was like who is this crazy guy. I had to go back and read them :)
The sequals are better, I prefer his serpentwar saga myself.
S Hollis serpentwar saga is by far the best. Eriks story is one of my favorits
Agree! Among my favorite series.
S Hollis same
Yep.. Love it. I loved both Roo and Erik.. but Nakor is my all time fave. And it's ironic that he said he didn't care for the battle writing in Rift.. because Serpent war go's so deep into battle tactics that you can almost imagine being a commander on the field.. heck.. by the end of shards i felt like if i had to i could organize a group of soldiers into building perfect defensive fortifications and place them in correct units for any type of attack lol.
The serpent war is brilliantly done, but would never be the same without Magician.. it set everything. Beat book ever written!
I'm not really seeing what you said about the characters not being developed... like... at all. Pug definitely changes from the country lad we meet on the first page and Tomas certainly does as well (though some of that is because of his inner battle with the Valheru, but that battle itself is character defining). I was most certainly attached to Martin, Arutha, Lyam, Duke Borric, Dolgan the dwarf, the good elves and the bad, the Tsurani, and just about everything else in that world. It's why I had to read Silverthorn, A Darkness at Sethanon, Prince of the Blood, and The King's Buccaneer.
It's also why I was incredibly disappointed with the Serpentwar Saga. For one, there's a time skip of several decades, so just about everyone you loved is now old (and thus, not a main character). For another, several characters are killed off. Some are killed off, but are resurrected as demons (which is just out of nowhere).
Jared Masten I agree partially. Pug has a fee shuddering starts and stops in development very early on. I mean how else can you go from 8 to 20 in 500 pages? But Feist smoothed over the missing development well, but for the first half of the Saga, it feels a lot like character development (minus Milambers raw power being developed later.) All seem like backstory points. Like the character is introduced, a little backstory to get you going. Flash forward 5 years. Then explain how the character became who they are based on the last five years.) There's not a lot of in action development early on.
When I first discovered these books in my childhood, it was known as "The Riftwar Saga" and only had 4 books. I read a forward in a later special release (that now apparently is just called Magician. It really was two books when I was a kid.) That mentioned Apprentice was written while Feist was in college and he had no plans of being a pro author at the time. But the Saga was only four books: Magician: Apprentice, Magician: Master, Silverthorn and A Darkness at Sethanon. This all inclusive story of 4 books later had other stories written to expand on characters (Jimmy the Hand, the Empire, the Kingdoms children as rulers, just kind of a Forgotten Realms kind of thing that was later called The Riftwar Cycle. But by the end of Magician: Master, you've seen the end of Feists' freshman writing. In fact, you see a little of his writing sophistication about halfway through Master, so about 3/4 through the single release. But Silverthorn and A Darkness at Sethanon see a true character development and the final culmination of growth for two mainly, Thomas (?) The Velheru, and Pug/Milamber learning (even more so) who and what they are. It's very impressive by the end of the Cycle but I have always Considered the first two books a slog. Silverthorn and A Darkness at Sethanon are about the same amount of words as the entire Magician book, so I'd recommend finishing the cycle. Like reading books 8-11 of WoT without reading Sandersons books.
yea characters the strenght of his works are that the characters are developed through the story so the characters get more and more complex as they have their adventures so the story is really more than just magician.
Rise of a merchant prince, so cool to make trading exciting.
The Riftwar Saga beginning with Magician are by far my favourite books ever! I disagree with the comments in this video that the characters are not well written. I am very invested in all the main characters especially
Pug, Tomas and Jimmy the Hand.
My favorite series of all time is WoT, and I think this is my 2nd, because they are completely different, because I love the character's and the more you read the books, the more you would like the characters. This was a much more simple book series than Jordan's complicated world, and I found it refreshing.
Hey there, how many books and in what order did you read these? Thank
@@tomscharf8812 There are several Trilogies and small series actually. The one you should start with is The Riftwar saga. It is 3 books which are, Magician, Silverthorn and A Darkness at Sethanon. If you like that then you can check out some of his other works.
Hi it's 2022 so I'm about as late as my UberEats. I read the riftwar saga over 6 years ago and it really impacted me. The way Feist navigates loss and death, and how the plot subverts the readers preconceptions of fantasy is masterful imo. I enjoyed your review a lot and would like to hear your review of the subsequent books in the saga!
Fiest got me hooked when I was about 13, within a couple years after that I owned all of his books and had read most of them several times. Magician is just the tip of the iceberg, it all gets better from there in my opinion.
Can you please tell me if this is the books that pug travels to a world /dimension where the females have to go into the hiding once they are going to have a child. But the place is really what I thought of as hell but to the people who live in it is normal. They also once they come the hiding fight there father's at there court if they kill them they become the Lord. ..
@@garydunlevy5673 No, same author, different books. That is covered in the Darkwar saga that spans 3 books in total. The names of the books in order are Flight of the Nighthawks, Into a Dark Realm, and Wrath of a Mad God. These books come way later in the series though, I wouldn't recommend jumping right to them. The best way to read all of them is chronologically.
This universe is huge, read the whole thing. Having only read the first book, you are missing so much. Revisit this review after reading at least throught the Empire trilogy.
Have you read the whole saga...Magician is just the set up
Magician stands head and above my favourite fantasy novel of all time.. The story of Pug is just amazing and the adventures of Thomas, integrating almost sci fi elements with the fantasy are incredible. Unfortunate that you didnt like it more.
Read this book 17 years ago and have recently been reading the rest of the full cycle of Raymond E Feist. This was his first book. You need to read the rest of the saga. I have read The Riftwar Saga
,The Empire Trilogy, and Krondor's Sons and just started the The Serpentwar Saga.
Best book ever written! Best scope, best imagination and dragons! What more do you need people.
I think Daniel is spot on in the character building part and also sometimes very slow-paced.
For that, Mark Lawrence is the guy that does it the best with his broken empire series books. The writing style is gritty, super engaging, and fast-paced.
Was going to say 'not enough character development' then I realised it's only in the first book. After 20 books...a little bit of development
I bought Magician 30n years ago or so ,,, i wore the book out! i bought another ,,, and i have read the 4 copy twice now ,,, and put it carefuly away ,,, it is a big book but it is only the first ,,,, if you have not read it yet ??? you lucky so and so you have so much to discover ! whole worlds of fantasy that is equal to Tolkien ! ..
the talon of the silver hawk trilogy-ish things are my favourites from feist
I like tal too... but he's no tomas!
@@leemortimer9597He's better. Talon had the quest or revenge, Thomas followed his sword so to speak
Unrelated note, but which book should I start first. 1. Homeland by R.A. Salvatore 2. The Last Wish by Sapkowski 3. The Way of Kings by Sanderson 4. The Black Prism by Weeks 5. The Eye of the World by Robert Jordan
I haven’t read any of these books and now I just finished college I am looking to get back into reading. Thanks guys.
josh ferguson The Black Prism
Second The Black Prism
Eye of the world or Black Prism are my choices there.
I would say Eye of the World. Or Homeland. My love for WoT is only surpassed by Drizzt Do'Urden. Of only the first 10 books of Drizzt)
josh ferguson the way of kings is sooooo amazing. And Sanderson finished the eye of the world series after jordan passed away.
Magician felt like a D&D campaign that he wrote down, because i think it might have been a D&D campaign. The characters develop a ton more in later books
I’m in the 3rd book and I rly like the story it’s got such a good story and back story. When I read fantasy I normally care most for back story.
Magician has a very special place in my heart. The first real fantasy I read except for LOTR, and the book that basically taught me English. I mean real English, not school English. The first few chapters were difficult, and I had to re-read them a couple of times to really understand what was going on.. but at the end of the book the words flew off the pages. Also, it was so amazingly epic for young me. It was all I wanted and needed at that time. Character development wasn't on my mind, I wasn't analyzing the book, I was just enjoying the ride... immensely.
Feist's best books are "Magician", "Darkness at Sethanon", the Serpent War Saga, "Daughter of the Empire" and "The King's Buccaneer"
Totally understand your points but i implore you to keep reading, at least till A Darkness At Sethanon. Feist is still finding his feet here and it will get better and better.
I listened to Bardiac Knowledge's audiobook rendition of Magician so perhaps he deserves much of the credit, but I loved the characters in this book.
Amos Trask is a example of well endearing acting, but also well understood will economic characterization.
It never stated, the life debt he feels he owes the prince, but is apparent throughout his every deed and action.
All I really need to know about Charles is the image of a guardsman bounding into the cellar and leaping into the hole, blind, no hesitation, stuck with me.
Afterwards he's attending chores and reveals with a smile "Jump in hole. Good fight." He was one of those previously anonymous bold soldiers
I wanted more from him, but not to understand him better, because I understood him so well.
Somehow The Upload got screwed and my patreon list is not shown. THANKS CZcams! Here they are:
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Again special shout out to Justin Wilson!
The Riftwar Saga is a wonderful series. Magician is the first (two) book in the series, followed by Silverthorn and A Darkness at Sethanon. Perhaps that will give you more of the character development you are looking for. Personally, i think the spinoff Empire trilogy by Feist and Janny Wurts is an even better series, and you would be doing yourself an injustice to not give it a read some time. And it also has oodles of character development, at the very least for the main character, Mara of the Acoma.
Magician was my first non Tolkien/Harry Potter fantasy novel, and I read it when I was around twelve (having read Tolkien the year previous and Harry Potter perhaps the year before that). Therefore I noticed precisely zero character flaws and instead fell in love with the fleshed out world and the very light levels of political intrigue (which were mind blowing to younger me). I can definitely say that I enjoyed Silverthorn and Darkness at Sethanon more though, as Arutha appealed to me as a main character far more than Pug - he had a more human edge than Pug did. My favourite of Feist's series set in Midkemia was definitely the books about Talon, though I also greatly enjoyed some of the later books in the saga that took more of a philosophical bent, and worked through different depictions of heaven and hell. The expansive world building has been something that's hooked me ever since - if there isn't scope, scale, and excessively complicated magical races, then what honestly is the point.
I also found the serpent war to be incredible.. Roo turned out to be one of my favorite characters.. and if he ever wrote again.. damn i would LOVE to get a prequel series about the life and adventures of NAKOR !!
Would you like an orange?
Does the Serpent war saga contain more action?
Nakor strikes me as having been someone's D&D character. In fact, the world and the stories Feist puts in it are deeply inspired if not directly pulled from D&D campaigns he was involved in. Assuming you can never fully trust Wikipedia, here's my source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_E._Feist
From a nameless servant to Magician's apprentice, from slave to Magician. From a kitchen boy to a Master of the Universe, yeah no, character development. Don't agree with you on this one Daniel. Do yourself a favor though read the rest of the series and if you ain't hooked by Darkness at Sethanon. You'll never will be...
Kind of salty. Reads opening book in a massive series, puts out a stand-alone book review. Thanks for reviewing chapter 1: Introduction. Read more, please, and do another review. At the very least, the rest of the series. Magician is NOT a stand-alone novel.
I found _Magician_ to be an enjoyable read, and I plan to get to the other books in the series eventually. On an unrelated note, I just finished _Fall of Light_ (second book in the _Kharkanas Trilogy_ ) and it was fantastic! Now I am kinda bummed that I will have to wait a long while before the concluding third book, _Walk in Shadow,_ comes out.
I love how this bookshelf of yours would get severely roasted by your current self.
I just finished Magican, Silverthorn and A Darkness At Sethanon and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone. Definitely gonna pick up the rest from this universe.
Unfortunately what I consider the series greatest strength is also a big weakness. Each mini series within the overarching saga has a brand new cast of characters and take place sometimes decades apart. There are maybe a half dozen or so characters that show up with regularity throughout but for the most part things are changed up regularly. This means feist is able to tell all kinds of different stories with different origins but it also means character development is quite lacking. However those characters that do show up throughout, pug in particular, have a lot of growth and development and by the end are barely recognisable as the same person from the early books. Pug goes through a lot by the conclusion and I love the character. However it does mean some of my favourite characters like Arutha, Laurie and Roo don't get as much attention as they perhaps deserve. Still one of my favourite series though
Before you jump in and judge this trust me when I say you need to read the whole saga before passing judgment. The saga breaks down characters and opens your eyes a d mind to a world like nothing else, so please read the saga.
I don’t understand this critique. First of all, do you have any idea how many books are set in this world, with the characters and their descendants going through all sorts of arcs. Reading the first book and complaining there was no character development is like watching episode one of season one of Game of Thrones and complaining there was no character development. There’s way, way more to it, dude.
Secondly, I don’t understand how you read this book and not get personally invested with the characters. When I was eleven years old, I completely identified with Pug, the boy no one wanted, the kid who seemed to have so much potential but didn’t seem to live up to it. His friendship with Tomas is amazing. And Jimmy the Hand remains one of my all-time favorite fantasy characters ever. The fact that I met him as a child and watched him grow into an old man through a dozen and a half books makes him live and breathe to me. His actions certainly had consequences in his life, as did Pug’s, as did Tomas’s, as did Arutha’s... as did twenty other characters you don’t even know about yet.
If you love fantasy books, you owe It to yourself to read more Midkemia novels. Don’t pass judgment based on dipping your toe in.
i realise this is a 3 year old video. One of my personal favourites though. I wpuld say the character development in the minor characters is weak, but the major characters of pug and thomas was massive. Arutha also sees some significant development. Even Fantus and Kulgan having some growth, but meecham, gardan, the princess and all the ancilliary characters do suffer from being part of the world building.
I think my bias stems from the fact that I was 12 when I discovered Magician: Apprentice at a local bookstore . . . It was the first high concept fantasy story I ever read (yes, before Lord of the Rings despite knowing my parents had read those books and had copies at home from when they were kids in the 50s / 60s). Being that the age I was is often the peak of impressionable youth, I was completely sucked in. I had buddies that were Tolkien enthusiasts and also Rifts fans (a textbook RPG similar to DnD) which we did play quite often. They read the entire Riftwar Saga with me after I'd discovered the first book and they were known to throw criticism at it for being too much like Lord of the Rings which I hadn't started to read yet. After having read Lord of the Rings, though, I definitely prefer Feist's writing style more than Tolkien's "documentary" style of storytelling . . . Going off topic here. The point is, I love Magician and Feist's descriptive storytelling . . . It has been literal decades now since I've read it, so I'm very curious myself to go back and retread the story and put your critique to task to see whether or not I still relate to the characters . . . As an impressionable youth, I loved Feist's character development and had an emotional connection to Pug and Thomas, their yearning for adventure and love as well as the pangs of adolescence and growing into their own.
I would disagree with you on character building for at least Pug. I think maybe the difference is that I discoverd this book in middle school and as a child of divorce with parents (and my brother and I) living in different states, I heavily identified with Pug's life. I do not know if you continued on with the series, but when you get to the second book, you get the same from the new main protagionist Jimmy the Hand (introduced in this book).
The big thing to remember is this world and the adventure grew out of Feist playing D&D with friends, so his tendancy was to develope his main character and be more serface with his secondary characters. He got much better as his writing progressed beyond this series. The Empire Trilogy (with Janny Wurts) is a wonderful series, then he has a 4 book series after that that is amazingly strong in many ways, but like this book each book tends to focus heavily in the main character with more surface for the others, but in serpentwar saga each book shifts main character perspective.
The kings buccaneer & sliverthorn did a lot for me as a kid.
I think you should finish the series it’s so good!!!!
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the characters. Yes, many of them were underdeveloped, but Pug specifically was incredible to me. Maybe not the most complex and fully realized character in fantasy today but he was lovable and I was fully immersed in his stakes. I love the arc of going from knowing basically nothing about the world to being this powerful mage who is not only invested in improving his own world but also this new world that he has been brought into, Despite the fact that he knows they did horrible things to him and that thread of supporting both worlds continues into the sequels.
Magician was split into 2 volumes, in my opinion, because majority of Americans were intimidated by a 800 page book. Have the first volume at 300ish pages got people hooked to buy the 2nd book.
Would you say Wheel of Time is a B-class fantasy?
You now need to read empire trilogy.. I love Feist and Wurts.. but this is greater than the sum of the parts
this remains boys own adventure but i loved it at 12, have read them all and love the development of characters and family line, Magician just the introduction to his worlds
Macros was such an important character, and sadly I hardly know him in development terms...that said, I cherish my time with these books. I agree with your summation. My son is reading Magician (unabridged) and comments on the world building quite often. Characters, not so much.
I agree with most of the comments and your video. The book was good. Easy to read, kept me going. The characters were underdeveloped, and you have to read the next few books to really understand them. But that's also the problem. By the end of Riftwar I was tired of them doing the same thing over and over with different characters and destinations. Serpent war became a slog and I just gave up. Pug and Makros became these macguffin characters that could solve most if not all the problems.
It seems my opinion is unusual here, but it seems the norm on other places I've looked: Magacian (author's intended version) was great! Original, epic, well written. But the books who followed were average at best, the only redeeming aspects was the characters already created in the first book, and the world they live in.
I've read Magician several times, and my suggestion (like with the Matrix movies) is to stick to the first, and not let the sequels destroy your experience of it.
Like Ray says "You can't argue taste" but I really like the coming of age story and the way the main story splits into several threads and then, when Ray and Janny write The Empire stories.. wow, that's when Magician truly takes off and nails itself on my eternal top 10 list of the greatest stories of all time. No, I don't compare it to stories in other genres. In fantasy, Ray's Magician is awesome.
The characters. Well, Pug is a great character and Arutha too. There are characters that aren't all that strong but over-all I love it. Pug's early years as an orphan of the keep and how he develops is just diamonds.
The story is, in places, a little thin and sometimes very Tolkien but still, I love it!
the lack of charcter deveopment in magician is partially, if not mostly to do wit the fact theres 30 books in the series and pugs character development, along with many other characters happen over the entire series. there is so many characters a that each set of books sort of focuses on individual character development. Jimmy the hands story of being a gutter rat to eventually being one o the highest stations of authority in the kingdom is great. also, read Conclave of shadows. it follows a young man whose lost everything an only motive is revenge eventually learning how to forgive those who wronged him. while simultaneously delving into the mind of a greedy corrupted noble who falls from grace and learns to be humble.
Any recommedations for other title's finished every book , and having a hard time finding books that captivate me as these did
I started re-reading Feist during lockdown and I've kept going. For the most part, I've been quite happy with how well the books have held up. Feist was doing a lot of progressive things back then that I hadn't realized when I read the books twenty years ago (including POC as part of the setting without defining them by that fact, for example) though he still has a lot of flaws (with one notable exception, he can't write women).
A lot of Feist's writing had a strong improvement after he co-wrote the Daughter of the Empire series with Janny Wurts, and afterwards we see much more character-driven stories. While Erik and Roo are the go-to examples of his improved characters, for me Talon and Kaspar are when his stories start being character-driven, rather than plot-driven, though TBF we see the groundwork for this laid out in the Serpentwar Saga when he starts (mostly) limiting his perspective to a single character throughout the novel rather than jumping around. It's also why, IMHO, Shards is the weakest book of the saga as he goes back to multi-point character perspective and so Shards loses the personalization that was so important to the rest of the saga.
All of this sidesteps, however, an important point: Daniel is reviewing a book, not a series. One shouldn't have to wade through four novels before a series "gets good." How many times have you passed on a TV series that someone raved about because you didn't have the patience to sit through a season and a half for things to improve? Fortunately, as Daniel says, Magician is good. It stands on its own. And if you like it, you'll likely enjoy the rest of Feist's writing and enjoy how his writing and characterization improve as he practices his craft. While I've never met Feist, I think it a strong indication that he took feedback seriously and actively developed his skills as a writer.
For myself, I just got to Flight of the Nighthawks in my re-read. I'm looking forward to getting to know this next generation of characters all over again.
I know this is old and as others have pointed out I would love if you would do a reread of the whole riftwar saga and revisit this within that context. I feel like this is like viewing book 1 of WoT without the context of the entire series
This came up as my recommended because of things I'm currently doing unrelated. Very good review. It was nice to see this, I hadn't known you had done this back then, I should have seen this before now, I'd been watching you. It was nice to see you talk about something else so dear to my heart (not this book, but another computer game/book that was Feist's IP). You're dead on about Magician. Right on the nose, actually, about the writing that was indicative of its time. Fair and pleasant. Good review. Heartwarming to see.
Krondor: the Betrayal, Assassins, Tears of the Gods is series that I really enjoyed from him. But unfortunately the only three books I ever finished reading that he has written.
He released a novella to finish that series, so there are 4 in the Riftwar Legacy now
In my opinion, I recently read Magician Apprentice and Master and LOVED the second part. I know it's a trilogy/quartet but you can easily leave your journey at Magician and just read it as a standalone in my opinion. It worked perfectly as most of the stuff was contained in Magician's ending. I'm currently reading Silverthorn and am over 30% into it and liking it. Very interesting thoughts like usual for your review!
Hey Daniel I am wondering if you have ready any books by Michael G Manning? He has an amazing list of books I've found myself lost in the last half year.
I Only just read the books after seeing this review and am think WTF was he talking about he was Waay WAAAAAY off I freaking Love the Characters Jimmy the Hand being my Favorite I was thinking did he and I even read the same books and I am Noticing Most people feel that same wayI in the comments Freaking Love these Books and Love The Characters I don't see how you couldn't get to where you feel like you know them or like them
Good job completing the review while staring directly into the sun.
Having read most of the series at this point, I'd have to agree that especially in the earlier books, feist concedes character development to world development, I often feel far more attached to the feeling that the world feels alive and complex than to the feeling that these characters feel alive and complex. Still one of my favourite book series, and seeing many, many characters and how they change over time makes up for that lack to me, since every side character has a degree of being a blank slate for you to imagine "what would this character be doing right now"
I don't know, I'd say that while Pug and Thomas are developed more as archetypes than people, in this volume, some of the others have a greater sense of intimacy: in particular I'd nominate Arutha.
I definitely enjoyed watching him grow from an intense, somewhat brooding and aloof late-teenage noble, to hardened battle commander who won the reverence of his men. That and the crew at the Keep who surround him are a fun bunch and play off each other very nicely.
This book is more story driven rather than character driven. And if you like this type of work you are a story follower rather than a character follower. However to say that these characters are underdeveloped is just false you need to First finish reading the series to get a feel for the character.
I feel like Feist grew as a writer while he wrote the 31 books from Magician to Magician’s end. Read all of them and (if you are like me) you will be left in awe about the vast scope of the universe that was written. After you read magician you are looking through a microscope, the scope gets massive.
Would really love it if you checked further into the riftwar saga and the Conclave of Shadows series set within the Midkemia world, Feists work is my personal favorite in fantasy and i think he gets better with character development and describing action as his writing evolves throughout his works.
I second this. The serpentwar saga is also really good from what I remember, and not too hard to get through, just 4 books. One thing I like about Feist is that characters from previous books will show up in newer books, so you get little updates about their lives. He is very good at following up with his old characters that way, and it's a really cool way to reward people who have read all his books.
I remember reading these in my teens and anxiously awaiting the issue of the next book in the series. For those of us who grew up in the 70s and 80s these types of books encouraged you to use your mind's eye & were incredible. They involved the imagination of the reader as much as the writer. Also remember that Raymond Feist wrote a horror novel previously to this series called night flyer that was a standout book in its genre.
I read them in my youth and many times after. But after being a more developed reader, I agree with you. Feist is a great world builder, but his characters sometimes lack depth. Though he does get stronger in the Empire & Serpent saga. I did like the series after that, Talon of the Silverhawk, but after that the worlds he kept building where kinda interesting, but lacked depth and the characters just felt like charachters I'd already read. In the end I felt nothing for the newer characters but was just driven to see how the serie would end. All in all I would give them a 7 indeed.
Feist’s universe is amazing. Macross is pretty close to being my favourite fantasy character. On my fourth reading of this book at the moment. I’m up to Macross’ introduction. Still love the book as much as I did the first time I read it almost forty years ago. Gonna read all of Feist’s books in a row to see if the rest still hold up (My favourite, when I read it years ago, was Darkness at Sethanon). I give Magician 8/10.
I was reading this story in the 1990s, so, define "new". And it's finished. The entire series is done.
Wow. You read his first book or what should have been the first book (The Author's Preferred Edition in 92) and thats it. What about the other 26 books (30 if you include The Empire Trilogy). This along with Sara Douglass's Battle Axe, Matthew Reilly's Ice Station and Robert A. Heinlein's Star Ship Troopers are the 4 books that started me off at 19(1995) and I have never stopped reading since. I do include audiobooks in this as I do a lot of driving.
I'll look forward to your review of A Darkness at Sethanon to round out the Riftwar series for greater context. My impression after reading it in the late 80s was it was a bit slow to begin with, then took off with JUST ENOUGH character building as he introduced so many and made it easier to digest, at least for me. This also allowed for increased cognitive room, again, at least for me, to accept the world building concurrently happening.
There were times that I experienced emotions of fear and sadness (both in a particular underground setting) that I had not experienced in a novel before.
I have read many fantasy novels and this Riftwar series was the standard that I weighed them against. Even now as I try to get through the first Kingmaker book, I continue to compare, but agree that its little comparison and am finding the difference between older and newer fantasy writing styles. Thanks for your great channel!
I loved the entire series. Id advice you to read the entire storyline from Magician till the end. In total i think 20 books or so. The consequences come more in later books. Read for example more Darkness over Sethanon, Shadow of a Dark Queen, etc.
there are a total of 30 books in the midkemia and kelewan you have to read alot more than just magician such as of course Jimmy the hand /prince arutha/thomas and pug /naked the isalani/mara of the acoma/Erik von darkmoor/all well done characters.would take wayyyyy to talk about each character
Ok bro you need to read all the books before understanding Ray....
its more of a gateway book to fantasy id say, not my very favourite, but surely my most reccomended to friends
he builds the world alot honestly throughout the books, like quite a bit spanning alot of different countries, worlds, dimensions
Tried this after reading about 8 Feist books...SUPER slow, NO magic, THIN characters, LAME battles/action. But yes, according to everyone, this series picks up much more in the 3rd and 4th books.
Wow, I just had an epiphany. The upright man is the Artful Dodger and Jimmy the hand is taken from Oliver Twist..
I have just finished reading his entire book series in this universe it’s 31 books long and is amazing
I think I read 2 or 3 trilogies of this series when they came out 30+ years ago. Of all the books I have read in my life, Pug and Tomas are probably the pair I think back to most often. It was amazing to see what those kids grew into.
In regards to character development: these characters continue throughout several different sagas and in-between books (which I recommend, the Krondor books are great) and I think it might be better to hold off reviews on individual books and review the sagas as a whole
Block Yo I agree in part. His review is based on just Magician which, to be fair, isn't the best of Feists' writing. I would have given Magician a 5 or 6 on my initial read, but would probably consider it a 7 of weak 8 if taking in the Riftwar Saga alone. (Magician, Silverthorn, A Darkness at Sethanon.) But, surprisingly, that would go lower the more of the Riftwar Cycle I read. The Kandor trilogy is great as a stand alone (provided you read Riftwar Saga first) and the Daughter of the Empire (I forget the trilogy name..the Empire trilogy?) Is great with the same looking Glass, but to read the entire Cycle and give the whole thing a score would be like..reading The Canticle(? I honestly forgot the name of this book...) As part the Legend of Drizzt and weighing them together with the Elminster Saga...
@@jamessavage8753 big difference here being that Magician (Apprentice-book 1, and Master-book 2) are part of the Riftwar SAGA, a trilogy (or quadrilogy?), not a stand-alone novel. He doesn't NEED to read the whole CYCLE(all SAGAS) to get the gist of what is good about the first book(s), but the rest of the original series IS necessary to have an educated opinion on the author's work. New authors generally don't go in with a "shooting a pilot" mentality, and rarely are beloved authors best works their first.
@@craigmoen1430 that's basically just what I said, I'm confused.
Magician was such an awesome read! Loved it. Have you ever read anything by David & Leigh Eddings? You would probably like them.
LOL!! I don't smoke or drink. But yea could hang out.
These authors got me into fantasy when I was 11. I reread their whole works every year still. Except the Elder Gods series. Jeez those are awefull.
Eddings was one of my first foot splashes in Fantasy. Read Belgariad before LotR, WoT or the Icewind Dale Trilogy, if that can be imagined. Eddings and Feist are very similar in a few different ways and someone who really enjoys one might feel the same with the other, but for me, personally, I couldnt do any rereads (and I've tried) of Belgariad or Malloreon series')
Read these book 26 years ago and met Raymond Feist 5 years ago . He addressed a lot of the questions I ask him