Do the Helix Reverbs Suck? [compared to Strymon and Chase Bliss]
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- čas přidán 1. 08. 2024
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One of the things that still follows the Helix around is that the Reverbs are not up to par - which I think is based mostly on past experience rather than the more recent "Dynamic" algorithms. Here I wanted to put them side to side with the Strymon Cloudburst and Chase Bliss CXM1978 and see which I preferred.
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00:00 Intro with Chase Bliss CXM1978 and HX Stomp
2:19 What's this about then
3:22 Device A
4:38 Device B
5:32 Device C
6:26 Reveal
7:33 Chase Bliss Tail
7:57 Strymon Tail
8:17 Helix Tail
10:55 conclusion
11:55 Chase and Helix Clarity?
15:30 So do they Suck?
17:00 Cloudburst can do this though - Hudba
At this level it's probably more important which unit has the features you need and the UI that works best for you. Most people would be much better served learning how to get the best out of the gear they have than worrying about whether the shiny new reverb is better than the one they have.
@@JA-qo3uk I've got a nice amount of mid to top end gear and really once you get past a certain level the differences get smaller and smaller. It's far more important to know what the right sound is for the right situation and how to get it.
None sounded bad. In the comparison C sounded the best from an ambient perspective, but that was because the guitar was lower in the mix and the reverb higher compared to A and B. All the trails sounded musical, though I’m not a fan of long plate trails due to their metallic nature.
I’m still a relative noob with ambient sounds, so this video has been very educational.
Thanks once again, John!
Hey Jonathan. Great video. I've been through most reverbs and I've settled on an old eventide space after a hx stomp. Very good combo.
I think the new dynamic reverbs are great but I still find the glitz to be my go to. It’s just so big and beautiful. Love it.
I agree with your assessment of the sounds. I have an HX Stomp, and it is an endless gold mine of wonderful tones. Your videos have been a treasure trove of knowledge and valuable instruction. I think Yamaha/Line 6 Helix should compensate you for all the good work you've done. I purchased an HX Stomp because you proved what a fantastic piece of gear it is. Thanks 👍
I used Heliosphere in an outdoor show in an old Spanish military barracks and it was very usable. It’s all about designing your patches adjustments for the venue, not the set list.
Great comparison and it shows the value of the line 6 products. Thanks
I actually use LINE6 products for my sounds, and those reverbs and effects sound stellar - although I mostly play piano, I engage the verbs for a more ambient feeling, and I found stay there for days! The Particle reverb is an interesting for sure
Cool video. Interesting to know Helix verbs sounds this good. Thx!
I was C>B>A . I guess I just really like Helix for reverb.
Me too!
Great video, thanks JNC.
I may have missed it in the video but could you go over how you have the Dynamic Plate set in this video?
I've got a Source Audio Ventris that keeps getting less and less use with how great the Helix verbs sound, especially for everyday sounds.
Could you share or show the Helix setting you used in here?
You have such an incredible ear John!
As a triple HX owner (Effects, Stomp XL, Native), I really wanted to like the Helix the best, but I liked it least (though I liked all of them quite a bit). It was a bit too "crowded" for my taste. I liked it fine just listening to the tails, but during the playing, I felt it crowded out the dry signal in a way the others didn't, creating a bit too much dissonance at times. But I suspect if the reverb level were slightly reduced (and maybe a bit of the mids & shimmer cut), I'd like it just as much. All that said, it's impressive that a Stomp could do so well vs. the others-yet offer so much other capability as well. -Tom
What do you think of the Fractal Reverbs vs Helix Reverbs and Strymon, Neunaber, Eventide reverbs?
Is there a way to recreate the boss Tera echo on the hx stomp ?
Time for a Chords of Orion ambient collaboration project John!
Wow, seriously impressed with the Helix. I have no hands on experience with the Bliss but in the blind test liked it least and indeed thought it was probably the Helix (and I love my Helix). I've limited experience (so far!) with the Cloudburst but liked B and C pretty equally so in-corrrectly assumed they must be Cloudburst and Bliss.
Very interesting, great test, thanks.
I was A, C, B in that order. I was actually surprised by helix too. Nice!
This was my preference as well. I actually liked C too but the mix seemed higher like it was over taking over the dry sound. B I had kind of an instant dislike to, which is crazy since I've been watching tons of clips about this pedal and thinking about getting it... A was the stand out winner for me.
@@Coztomba Same, A, C, then B. Was surprised by B cus I thought it was kinda donky... a bit flat and uninteresting compared to the other two.
Same as well!
After hearing all 3, I ranked them - #1 A, #2 C, #3 B. I described what I liked about A and C as you did John, with a definite amount of 'complexity' and 'believability' about what I was hearing. B was much more simplified in its trail and sounded more like a set of direct echoes than space. I agree, the reverb in the Helix was very impressive and stacked up very well against the Chase Bliss.
Is there a reverb in the helix that is similar to the cloudburst?
Yeah but that guitar tho 👀👀
Chords please! what tuning is that? 3.20 and onwards. Beatiful
@johnnathancordy where can I find that Cloudburst preset please? Under what update and name?
I don't think they suck, at all. However, I haven't been able to get that warmth, that musicality, that the Strymon Flint gives me.
The Strymon Flint is awesome for sure - I tried that for the first time just before the kid was born - loved it
Sounds great John. Where's your blue K-Line?
Oddly enough, I actually preferred the Helix on this specific case... Great comparison!
They all sound great! Maybe I’m not the most discerning listener but for me reverbs reverb. Don’t mind the difference between my fender amp, helix, and old digital pedal.
from blind test, i love the bigness and the way the C decay. (havent reached the reveal part)
With the HS Stomp, I feel the more time you put in the more you will get out of the algorithms. I find most of the factory presets too over the top. It’s a great platform, if you are willing to roll up your sleeves.
Intelligent break-down, thanks
I liked the Stomp over the Strymon but the CB was my favorite in the blind test
I have the h9, specular tempus, and hx stomp. I like the gfi most but if you're using the hx as an effects box then you can build something that the others couldn't possibly do. My problem with the h9 is that it changes the dynamics of my fuzz pedals and levels are all over the place. The stomp is easily the best buy on the market, imho.
Funny how the strymon sounded the cheapest to me. I like helix reverbs but the spatium algorithm on my GFI Skylar is so amazing and it will never leave my board unless they make an updated version with midi capabilities and proper stereo outs/ins and not the trs cable type stereo.
What about fractal? I think they tend to be more studio like than musical.
Well you definitely changed my mind on this
That guitar sounded incredible. Was that a baritone or just drop tuning?
Also wondering what brand/model that gorgeous sky blue guitar is
Like your videos John !
Might be able to do the little synth with the string synth after the reverb tails similar to your awesome choir verb patch 🤔
I like the reverb on C the most, from what I hear the only thing I think I prefer in the other two is they retain the clarity in the tone of the unmixed signal, it’s a little brighter and fuller. I think Line 6 has a strange reputation. I feel like the DL4 had a great reputation, I even saw quite a few boards with the MM4, but when they moved those algorithms into a multi-unit their effects started seeing less usage (though a good few use the M9). Could also be the increase of popularity with Strymon & their Hi-Fi integrative powerhouses. All that being said I keep my Line 6 M series around, but I did move on to individual pedals. My favorite reverb is the Red Panda Context V1 & V2, they have a slight different tonality & parameters. The V1 is a little wider frequency which is my always on & the V2 I have before & kick on when using a reverb for more of an “effect”.
Thanks for reading this useless information.
I find the 1978 and all Meris products to be so clear and high fidelity, never muddy. I prefer Meris, but they are all quite good for sure.
For routine verbs, the Helix is great. But the Ensemble feature on the Cloudburst is unmatched by anything in the Helix. I just ordered the Cloudburst to pair with my Helix Floor.
I always thought Helix verbs sounded fine. I just got a Cloudburst 2 days ago. It's okay, but nothing special imo. Right now my board is Digitech RV-7 and Boss RV-5. The Cloudburst is okay, but I think i prefer the Boss modulate setting instead.
It's impressive that Helix can go toe to toe with something like the CXM and we have to make comparisons splitting hairs like this to find the differences.
The difference to me was note clarity in the mix. I like the sound of the verb in helix best, but the notes were more buried.
What is that guitar you're playing? Sounds like a baritone?
Like you said you kind of have to turn them up to really hear the differences between three great sounding effects but those levels are far too for 99% of user cases
I really don’t see the Chase Bliss as a pedalboard unit though, it belongs on a mixing desk as outboard gear. The Eventide H9 had that vibe to me too
Yeh - often if I'm noticing the Reverb it's a sign that I should turn down the reverb haha. Something I don't remember often enough...
@@johnnathancordy Flint + Cloudburst together is incredible combo and is still about 300 quid less than the CB.
Kind of surprised the Cloudburst did not translate as well here. Maybe the context is a big driver here as the Cloud algorithm really is very special live in the mix and I haven’t found anything quite like it. I really have been impressed with the Stomp’s new reverbs for sure though and love the dynamic plate.
I just picked up the Cloudburst and ran it through it’s paces and it is exactly what I hoped for - it sounds fantastic. One thing I did note is that there is quite a difference ibetween running it with analog dry through vs digital and it is in digital mode that it does the thing I want it to. The conversion is very very good, like the H9 so I don’t mind it set that way.
I thought device A was definitely the most expensive, but I actually preferred device C.
I was sat thinking "please let C be the helix!" My dreams were answered. Thought it was better than B, and I thought A was too much. 😊
I thought the C was the Cloudburst. HELIX was great. My friend has a Cloudburst, he says it Follows the 5th of a chord around. With a Cloudburst you Got STEVE BARBER following you around like Venus Isle.
HA! The Cloudburst actually has a synth rather than any harmony or anything specifically like that.
I could 100% tell that A was the Chase Bliss but I wasn’t sure between B and C
I really liked A, but realistically B/C sound great. For me the helix is just so much more than a reverb, so the fact the HX reverbs can stand with the heavy hitters the value for money really starts to show.
Wow… I liked the helix the best.. didn’t think it would be bad but didn’t expect it to be my fav. Cba came in a close second and strymon was my least favorite.
LINE 6 SPONSOR THIS MAN! His demos are second to none!
Sponsored = Biased. Please, no.
Had no idea which was which, but I liked c the best
No I love the Helix reverbs.
The Helix reverbs really became top shelf in the last software update.
It was actually several updates ago when they started making strides. If you’re not on 3.5 already, do it ASAP!
I compared a lot of reverbs. I ended-up buying a Neunaber Immerse MkII.
The chase bliss sounds the best but definitely not for £850. I’m very happy with my helix reverbs.
Going in blind, Device C was much better to me for what I'd want out of an ambient Reverb around the 6 min mark. I'm pretty sure I know what it is, but am hoping I'm wrong haha
oh snap I was wrong! and I was wrong in the way I was hoping I would be! haha
I think they all sounded great! Which is typical if John is playing..
I liked Helix the best among these. Strange. I wasn't expecting that to happen.
Regarding the clarity discussion at 11:54, concerning the Chase Bliss having a bit of a blooming response to transients (esp. w/ muted/pizzicato playing), for folks working in-the-box in the sense of using plug-ins, it might be worth having a look at a new reverb by WA Production called KSHMR Reverb (made w/ input from KASHMR). One of its unique features is an ability to duck transients from the reverb. The reverb quality itself is getting rather mixed reviews. But even critics are liking the transient ducking feature. It currently has really low intro pricing (through March 2023). Here's KSHMR explaining it: czcams.com/video/4dhjoEuayOo/video.html. And here's a fairly technical critical review, that nonetheless is quite positive about the transient handling capability: czcams.com/video/X5h62UYFt3g/video.html. -Tom
Ok.. Now I don't care about the reverbs.. Amazing playing there. New to your channel. What is your tuning?
This is a baritone tuned to B!
@@johnnathancordy sounds sick man. Thanks for the reply! Have a nice sunday
Wow IMO interesting. For me first is strymon helix and then chase bliss.
63 spring is my jam.
They all sound good. I prefer analog knobs and pretty colored pedals. Like candy.
I didn't watch this video (but I do like your channel!). I just stopped by to say that your be hair looks alarmingly like toupée in the thumbnail. That's all - have a good one!
Chase Bliss was my favourite by far, the other two I liked different aspects of.
👍🏻👍🏻🙏🏼🙏🏼
Usually, I find that there are "ambient guitar" YT guitar channels and they tend to be a separate animal to jazz and or rock technique / theory instructional, John literally can do it all
I must know how you got that sound with the helix. Sounded amazing. Which verb was this? dynamic?
@johncordy
I was looking to do that synthy pad guitar sound for drones with free plugins or my zoom g1xon. The particle reverb is amazing. It can definitely do something like the strymon
I have not watched the reveal yet. I paused it at end of Device C demo to make a choice in the comments. I think A and C sounded great. B not so much.
When a headline ends in a question mark then 98 percent of the time the answer is no.
hihih got all right ;)
Wow this is a tremendous endorsement of Helix. If a 900 dollar pedal can't explicitly beat it, why get anything else. I use the dynamic verbs exclusively
Thumbs up if this video relieved your gas
Line 6 really should pay you to do these videos. Your vids are better than theirs.
Everyone assumes they do anyway unfortunately
As a PnW guitar player, it’s crazy to say I liked the Strymon the least. Helix won this one surprisingly enough.
No
Yes. Line 6 dynamic reverb algorithms (issued two and one year ago) are less sucky than older ones and can be compared to some other developers' algorithms that does not suck.
Yes, if you care about reverb quality and you have a choice you will probably use something else anyway.
Their greatest advantage is you can use them on Helix hardware while you can not use any other algorithms of your choice there.
The problem for me is the transparency, any room reverb on a computer plugin, will sounds more transparent and better then the room reverb on helix...
Did like the first one best. Strymon was a bit "stymied" - thin, bright and short. Helix, while more wide-band than the Strymon, had crappy tails which probably used some less optimal feedback loops in order to make longer tails than it actually managed, but then again why would one use any of these when recording ambient style music since there are several IMO superior DAW plugins that are much cheaper than any hardware pedal. That said, for live use I think the Helix reverb would be as good one would require.. No need for additional overpriced pedals. YMMV.
Having spent lots of time with strymon, boss, fractal, kemper and helix, I will say the helix verbs are incredibly far behind just about anything else out there. same geos for delays
Is there that when you make these helix presets you can describe the name of the preset and say exactly where to find it in your presets? I'm struggling to find it and you have a lot of presets
@johnnathancordy