Major Reno's Charge and Retreat at the Little Bighorn
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- čas přidán 17. 06. 2022
- Episode 4 focuses on Reno charging down the west side of the Little Bighorn. Given the mass of Indians he faced, Reno dismounted his 3 companies in a skirmish line. However, after some fighting and without support from Custer, Reno "charges" out of the timber, across the river to his ultimate defensive perimeter. In the process, his command is demoralized and faces heavy casualties. The fight in the next episode will turn to Custer and his 5 companies.
When I was driving semi's over the road I had a chance to walk that battlefield. 25 years later I get chills just thinking about it. I've never believed in ghosts, but there was definitely a _'presence'_ I could feel there, and even though I've been to almost all the major Civil War battlefields? _It was something I never felt before or since in all my 67 years._
Had the same sensation at the Fetterman site in Wyoming. The only people I could see was traffic on the interstate and it's quite a view up there, but it really felt like I wasn't alone.
Yep. Me too.
Join the small crowd that has felt a presence there.
I have been there as well parked at the store by 90 and walked my fat behind up the hill
Much of this speculation is based upon what we know. They did not have that luxury. You have to see it from their limited perspective. No overview; no modern communications; no clear knowledge of the enemy; no knowedge of an overarching plan, etc. What they had were 4 - later on 5 - different commands that were not in support of each other, nor were operating from an overall battleplan. They were still in recon mode. Reno, benteen, and other officers had no idea Custer was in difficulties. These are all either modern constructs based upon myth or, a continuation of the "Libby Lies." In short, they were not having a friendly "what if" discussion, nor sitting around a wargame table with a god-like view. On that day, Custer failed Custer. it does not make him a terrible commander, nor an egomaniacal "presidential-wannabe" (he actually had no plans to run for office, but to go on the talk circuit, which was a huge form of entertainment at the time), but a flawed human who, on that day, made many critical mistakes. And in fairness to the victors, they were the "heroes" that day. You might say, Custer didn't so much lose; the NA's won.
from where I'm from we call it..... playing stupid games for stupid prizes. custer got his suprise... I mean Prize.
I think this is what keeps getting lost -- The warriors simply were better than Custer's men on that day. But then and now it seems that it's a big poke in the ego for white people to admit that the "savages" were better than the US Army.
Great presentation as usual. I have read an account that on the Reno skirmish line some troops were high arching their shots into the village, this is before the Indians began their attack. also the first kills I have read were 3 or 4 youg indians playing next to the river, by the Cav. Indian scouts. I know Chief Gall lost family members early on and it made his heart heavy and he fought with grave vengeance. This was a battle of madness.
Two wives and three children.
Have read about that as well.
Yes your correct.
It was Custers Aricara scouts with Reno who, were given orders to disperse the Hunk papa pony herds to the West of the Little Big Horn campgrounds. These Scouts infiltrated the teepee campgrounds and killed 2 of Galls wives and several of his children. They killed the 4 boys watering ponies also Before disappearing.
The Army has an acronym called METT-TC: Mission, Enemy, Troops, Terrain - Time, Civilians. These are considerations for planning. This acronym wasn’t codified at the time of LBH, but good commanders have always understood the concept even if they didn’t describe things in those terms, i.e., Daniel Morgan at Cowpens or Bedford Forrest at Brice’s Crossroads. If Custer was trying to pull of a “Washita 2.0” at LBH, he made a major METT-TC failure.
It seems by all accounts that this was the plan - Washita 2.0, but Reno saw that he was overmatched and thus foiled the overall plan for Custer but also preserved his own command. Custer needed to ford more quickly as the native forces were moving from Reno to Custer. Custer couldn't have any idea until it was too late that he was over-matched, outgunned and had made too many mistakes in setting this battle plan up. The result is what we all know of it.
The drone footage makes this so much better A+
Yeah why didn’t Custer make use of his drones?
I enjoyed your presentations of this battle and have been to the battlefield 5-6 times. I always wish that I had enough time to do a full walk-thru of the Rosebud & Little Bighorn battles.
I do have a small, hopefully constructive criticism, however. When you post screenshots/photos/satellite maps, please include a north-seeking arrow. I think it would greatly help to better understand the geography of the battlefield's landscapes.
The clip @3:25 beautifully shows why the U.S. Calvary was not really calvary. A unit of 4 would dismount, 3 to skirmish fight and 1 to take the four horses to safety away from the fight. This is what had to change when fighting the Comanche; who, like the Mongols, could fight ON horseback. This is what Jack Hays of the Texas Rangers trained his men to do, fight ON horseback.
Jack Hays! Great reference and interesting points.
They were really mounted infantry, especially without their swords.
Excellent work. I am a long time student of this battle. Your maps and photo exhibits helped me realign much of my understanding of this battle. Many Thanks!
Reno's nerve broke and Benteen dithered both betrayed Custer .Which proves keep your friends close ,but your enemies even closer .
Watering a whole battalion of 125 horses on a hot day and giving them a "blow" isn't dithering, but whatever.
I am heading to the Battlefield in August for another visit. I plan to focus on the timber fight this year . Thank you for your presentation.
That's a helluva steep climb up that bluff for those horses to make after a long run!
What the author fails to mention is after Reno bails from the timber, they rush towards the river looking to cross over. The embankment is 5' plus but there's no where else to cross, and on the opposite side of the river is all steep embankments with one narrow gap! ( look at aerial image showing Lt Hodgsons grave marker). You'll see the narrow gap in the photo. Hodgsons was gut shot on the other side but grabbed a horses stirrup and was dragged to the other side where he died.
czcams.com/users/shortsBmc9NFfhx74?feature=share
For the Native Americans, it was a Buffalo hunt. Reno took flight and his troopers, on their tired horses, struggled to get up the bluffs. Those on foot were described by the Natives as " beside themselves, shooting into the air and the ground, walking like drunken men, not running. " A pretty good description of heat exhaustion. Those soldiers were worn out before the battle even started and it only got worse during the heat of the day. They would have been easy prey, until they got into the defensive position on higher ground. It wasn't so much a failure by Reno but a success of the Native warriors. The same thing applies to the " Last Stand " which wasn't even a last stand. They were encircled and probably knew their number was up. Some stayed behind their dead horses and others ran for their lives. Once those that stayed had been swarmed and killed in a couple of minutes, the attention turned to the 28 men who tried to escape down Deep Coulee and they were all killed there. Their bodies have never been found, so that detail is often overlooked. They were the last to die in the battle, not those on " Last Stand " hill. Why did Custer lose the battle? The Native Americans had something to do with it......
Uh, no it was a failure of
Reno. He did not follow orders to attack the village and create panic and confusion. He halted, dismounted and therefore took 1/4 of his men out of action to hold the horses. Then he panicked, was the first one out of the timber, did not leave a covering force while he retreated and abandoned about 18 men in the timber. I don't see the "success" of the warriors, just some huge failures by the soldiers. The warriors fought well that day, better than Custer and the army would have thought. But let's not overrate their success. They had a chance to completely wipe out the 600 troopers with at least 1200 warriors still battle ready. They were not able to achieve that "success". The reasons are varied.
And yet the Indians failed to take Reno's hill !
Actually the Cheyenne and Sioux were invading Crow land and that's why Custer was there. The Indians left the reservation to follow the warrior way of raiding which led to murder and mayhem.
I'm pretty sure that description of the "walking like drunken men, not running" was with regard to the wounded fleeing from the area of Custer's last stand to the ravine. If not then both descriptions are exactly the same which would be an odd coincidence.
Repeating hearsay? The Last Stand Myth came straight from the Indians.@@tkell31
The Reno charge was like sticking your hand in a bee's hive. Those braves came out of that village like angry bees. Custer arrogance got people killed. The Indian scouts told Custer that it was a large village. Custer must have thought towards the end that he really F d it up big time.😮
Fairly harsh and I think, leaning far too much on hindsight. Reno was, in my opinion, placed in an entirely untenable position. All he knew for sure was that he was facing overwhelming numbers of enemy combatants; that those enemy were in the process of encircling him and that the ammunition necessary to conduct a protracted static defense was elsewhere. Critically, he didn't know where Custer was at the moment of decision. He didn't even know if Custer was still alive. But wherever Custer was; he wasn't where Reno needed him to be. Certainly, Custer had told Reno he would support him but at that critical moment, that was no help at all. And of course, as matters transpired; if Reno had attempted to defend the timber with what ammo he had left after the attack on the village; and wait on Custer; his command would have been annihilated. I think we can reasonably raise a question or two about the somewhat chaotic nature of the retreat to the bluffs. That said, I've never had to make a decision like that, in the middle of a gun battle, while wiping the blood and brains of a former colleague from your face, so I'm inclined to cut the guy some slack here. And although he lost a lot men during the retreat, I suspect that would have happened anyway, one way or another. And finally, there was nothing that Reno or anyone else on the Battlefield could have done at this point to extract Custer from the unfolding disaster. That ship had sailed.
Excellent !
Well said
Don’t totally agree on the harsh statement. Military commanders that lose battles are often Monday morning quarterbacked. His summation and yours actually combine nicely. Very nice series.
I believe this to be the case, as well. What would Reno have made of Custer's lack of support of his initial action? He hardly had time to gather his command between forming the skirmish line and his left flank being turned. A controlled retreat was all but negated at that, very early, point. He might have had success in driving the village retreat had he been given a larger force.
Reno Was A Chronic Alcoholic. Men Who Were THERE Said He Was Inebriated. He Was FIRST To Run Away From The Fight; FIRST At The Top Of The Hill. Cowardly, Drunk And Inept. = Fact. You Are Similar To The Custer FanBoys, Hal.
A fantastic video you can see the nightmare terrain
Excellent as usual. Three years later the British would suffer a similarly catastrophic defeat by dividing their forces in the face of an enemy superior in numbers without a complete understanding of the terrain. And yes, just like the Zulus and the British, the Indians had "something to do"" with Custer's defeat, to paraphrase General Pickett.
I'm not sure why you compare two Armies with very different conflicts and two very different battles. Unlike the US forces, the British were 'overwhelmingly' outnumbered (20,000 Zulus to 1,800). Even on a good day, knowing the terrain would have made little difference to the outcome of Battle of Isandlwana. The Spartans, who knew the terrain extremely well, were defeated by the numbers of Persians who simply overwhelmed them.
If you’ve ever been at the Big Horn site and seen the hill/ridge troopers has to climb in the battle, you would be freaked out. Truly scary shit.
Thanks!
Amazing work ! :)
Great video series about the Battle of the Little Big Horn!!! Got to say THANKS!!!! for NOT mentioning that Reno was "drunk" at the time of his battle. Have been reading books about the battle printed in 21st Century saying that Reno was "drunk" during the battle - even "drunk" during the entire campaign. I would have to find that hard to belief for really do not think that Custer - regardless of how much he and Reno hated each other - would have left Reno in command of a 1/3 of his regiment and in charge of a major portion of the battle. Also hear that Reno was "drunk" from other videos concerning the battle but - when challenge the video maker how they come to that conclusion - would get answers like "that is what I heard/read" or other crap. Now, once Reno took up defensive positions on Reno Hill; Benteen met up with him: AND the pack train arrived on site, am quite certain that some "medicinal brandy" was liberally passed amongst the survivors (may/may not have happened). But it seems that 21st Century book authors or video makers just have to mention Reno as being "drunk" during the battle. Never read anything about Reno supposedly being "drunk" in books printed in 20th Century. Now, IF there is some type of concrete evidence proving otherwise....
He may not of been drunk but he was a coward and feckless nonetheless.
I dunno but an Australian exploration party in 1861, Burke and Wills, took 20 gallons of rum as tonic 'for the camels'. People were bad drunks in those days. Sobriety is a quite modern idea in my experience.
Actually Reno admitted he was " drunk" late in life. Troopers said the officers of Reno's command " drank enough whisky to make any man drunk." I don't think that is the reason for his failure though ... I think he was fearful of his attack, having never fought Indians and that increased when he mounted to charge the village. The Bloody Knife incident was the moment his judgement failed.
Kevin Jones
I don’t believe there is evidence that Reno was drunk during the Valley Fight. I did read somewhere that he was seen to take a flask/bottle out of his saddlebag and take a pull just before beginning his advance into the valley. But that one snort seems to be the most he had until Benteen arrived on the ridge.
The credible evidence strongly suggests he was not drunk during the valley fight, though became so on Reno Hill. These are carryover lies started by Libby to turn her husband into a hero. While i don't think Custer was a crazed commander, on that day, he was no hero.
Reno disobeyed his orders. It was supposed to be four prong attack that when in simultaneously, the same as the Washita.
While the numbers at the Rosebud may have been 1,000, not all warriors were necessarily there. Unlike soldiers under command, they weren't required to fight. Second, it would be difficult to have an accurate count considering the tactics employed by the NA. I suspect Fox, for all his excellent work on the LBH, was incorrect on his numbers of enemy. But I also find it interesting that we keep looking at the battle from a "how did Custer lose" mindset rather than how did the victors win. I'll answer my own question: The enemy NA were determined, well led, using fresh ponies, and out for blood. Plus, of course, they had overwhelming numbers. With Custer's command split, ultimately 4 times, there was no way to win.
Agreed. Also the long range of the Springfield Trapdoor carbines was not an advantage, the coulees and ravines allowed the NAs to close with the Troopers without coming under fire until there were well within the range of NA firearms and even bows and arrows. Numbers, terrain, superior rate of fire weaponry, Attitude and poor tactics of the cavalry led to this defeat of Custer.
Excellent Video 🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷
It was one big Custer fluck period. I don't give a hoot about all the wouldas couldas shouldas. Custer was a brave fool and did not have a clue what he was getting into. very sad and unfortunate but it is part of our history.
Custer fluck...I love that.
Reno and Benteen were smart to realize what the odds were and move to a position they could fortify and defend.
They also allowed alot of good men die and be mutilated.
@@winstondurden4427 They would have been killed if they hadn't done what they did. Custer got his men wiped out not Reno and Benteen.
Agreed. But how do you fall asleep at night knowing that you may have saved a few of your brothers? Cowardice is hard to make peace with.
@@winstondurden4427 I suspect you haven't studied the battle and background. Benteen was not a coward. He led the Union cavalry charge in Kansas City that drove the confederates all the way to Arkansas and wiped out 2/3 of their army. He was a smart veteran cavalry officer. Custer was already mostly wiped out by the time Benteen arrived because Custer divided his force. If Reno had left the fortified area to "rescue" the small number of Custer's troops who were still alive they all would have died.
That's not to say Custer wasn't brave but his tactics were predicated on the expectation that the Indians were retreating. Not only did he not have Reno and Benteen with him but he split the 5 companies he did have with him and then dismounted with zero fortifications or time to build them. That wasn't Reno or Benteen. That was Custer.
Dizzy- you really know your history--solid post. You've been right this whole time, I've been trolling. I've walked battlefield twice and I've seen what they were up against. When Reno ran into Benteen after his retreat, they both realized that they had just kicked the hornets nest. Custer and his men were already wiped out. It also doesn't help that there was so much contention between all the officers.
At the Battle of LBH, you mentioned Reno was "no Hal Moore." Neither was Myles Moylan, regardless of his performance at the Battle of Bear Paw.
You would think they could have kept the Interstate a little further north of the battlefield given there was nothing else out there !
Reno was following Custer's reckless attack plan.
The Native Americans were done running.
Of course Maj. Reno was no Hal Moore. Maj. Reno never ordered close air from the Sky raiders and artillery support like Hal Moore did in Vietnam, Did Capt. Benteen spend too much time watering the horses? Well he could not have gone to the Gary Owen store because it was closed. Note: This comment is not to be taken seriously. I am from Texas and we get visitors asking why they fought the Battle of the Alamo in the downtown area of San Antonio.
The Mexican army hung out at the river walk after the battle and had some margaritas.
some great evidence based analysis here and no real theorising/assumptions without supporting evidence - I wish other youtube historians would follow such an example. I do wonder at your thoughts on the Reno Court of Enquiry as a reliable source though, being as it is has been widely suggested that there was a lot of falsification involved in the accounts related. I would love to one day walk this battlefield, it's just such a pain to get to from the UK.
For more of 17 years and after 15 books read I always return to the same question . Could Reno have had a good shelter in the timber ? Could he has defended the place until Custer had finished his movement ? I remember one sargent or officer said to a journalist that they could have fought the whole Siux nation . Some others said no . I do not think Custer could win the battle bur if Beenteen had join Custer they might have found a better place to resit and wait till Terry came
There is an indian testimonial, which says they were surprised at Reno’s flight, as they thought the timber absolutely defensible.
@@drstrangelove4998 Ammunition tells the tell and no they could not. At Roake's Drift the British had a semi fort built of boxes and mealie bags and near to 21,000 rounds of ammunition and used up near 21,000 rounds in that long battle. The Indians were in the timber line, Reno did not have any kind of defensive line or good chain of command and had no were near even 2000 rounds of ammunition. At Roake's Drift the British are fighting a spear armed enemy, not a heavy armed mix of Indian war bands. the British had a small area to hold and a well-rounded command and control of that small area. Withdrawal is the only thing that saved Reno's command. It was only a matter of time before the ammo ran out (remember once the ammo gets low you cannot control an area effectively) and the Indians used fire to force the command out of the timber line.
@@Tellgryn the British had plenty ammunition and a unified and disciplined command. It was tough and terrifying but they held their nerve. Custer had a more mixed force, not all fluent in English. Italians, Germans etc. Some of the Sioux had been up to Canada and bought repeater rifles.
"fought the whole Siux nation." Anytime I hear hyperbole like that I know it is from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. I suppose we can never "know" with certainty whether it could have been held, but it wouldn't have changed the outcome. And if the enemy got into the trees, they would have had a fight best suited to them. Considering limited ammo, many troopers who had never fought and had little training firing their weapons, and the determination of the enemy, I think the most likely outcomne is the position would have fallen with few survivors.
@@brg8960 I have been pondering over what you said for years . One the most sensible testimonies was the one of Doctor H. Porter ( surgeon with Reno) He was of the same oppinion as yours . In general Half of the surviors said it was the only solution . Flee . But all said that the retreat was done without any order : Reno was drunk and forgot the way how to do that movement .I think that if Reno had not been drunk they could have resisted more time and Benteen Joined forces with Custer Maybe ..... who knows
Yes very good 📹 veryy good
I've never been clear on exactly what Custer expected from Reno. Reno was told to attack and he would be supported. What does that even mean? To put it in modern armor officer terms, was Reno supposed to execute a holding attack or a penetration attack?
Exactly. The lack of clear operational terms and definitions caused many problems, not just at the LBH.
Custer never formulated a battle plan. He was still in recon mode. Making up a "plan" as he went, without his officers knowing what that was becaue it didn't yet exist.
‘Move out and draw fire soldier’
So, a question; What was done with the Native American casualties? I am sure there were some, as described during all the narratives. Did they get buried on location, or carried with the moving tribes, or just left? There are markers on the field for some, but what about the non-famous warriors?
The village was continually growing until the fight.
So is that deep gully near the ford caused by buffalo???
Water runoff.
It seems that Reno never got more than 200 yards from the river until his retreat... No person at the RCOI puts him closer than that. His retreats to the bluffs are never more than a half mile by anyones testimony and the fact he said he retreated because of the treat from the Indians shooting from the bluffs puts this entire battle way back closer to Reno Hill. If one things that Reno crossed two miles of open with all flanks exposed and tired horses and throwing away of pistols and such.. anyways possibly the ten men with the runaway sgt. planting the guidon in the village may account for that misconception. If he was that far advanced he would have seen the entire command under Custer coming down the bluffs. Twice that many as he was two sheets to the wind and seeing double at that time.
The Fettermen massacre a few years earlier had a huge effect both for and against Custer and not being aware of the battle of the rosebud sealed his fate , oh that and a bunch of angry Lakota & friends.
public cant go down to the river as far as I know, wonder if the Ranger led tours go down there ?
I spoke to a Ranger at LBH and he mentioned they do not go to that area since it is not part of the National Park. I have heard that the best bet is to chat up the locals at a gas station or the like and they might oblige.
Reno ran straight into a buzz saw,
there was more than enough natives to win
Is the store and museum out of business now (Feb 2023)? They were still going when I was there in June of 18.
It is out of business. The landowner got into legal trouble and sold off all of the artifacts to private collectors.
@@MilitaryHistory317 Oh, crap, it's too bad the museum at the National Battlefield couldn't get their hands on them. At least I did see them in 18.
photo was Keogh not Hodgeson. Keogh in Papel Army Helmet
That’s Hodgson. Those were US Army dress helmets.
@@jandrewhearne Formal Uniforms in the mid to late 1870s borrowed heavily from the Prussians of Europe. There is a wonderful book titled The US Army in the West 1870-1880 by Douglas C McChristian. The book focuses on the Uniforms, Weapons and Equipment during that tumultuous decade as well as the innovative nature of the American Soldier at that time and is a real treasure to me.
I can certainly tell you cavalry were not the immaculately attired sharp looking troopers you see in the field in the John Wayne westerns.
I am Apache from an Arizona reservation. I visited the Little Bighorn site in 2000 while passing by to visit relatives further up north. Like many tourists, I was curious about the historical monument and had never been there before. My tribe did not have recent roots in Montana - Apaches were predominantly located in the southwest. While walking by the cemetary I ran into racism. An angry white man with a son of about age 10 began making racist remarks about having me killed with a modern war tank. I did not want to get involved in a scene of harsh racial tension in the presence of a small child, so I just walked away. Nowadays, I usually carry an iPad and will just film a video on confrontations like that it it happens again and let it go viral so people can see the raw racism modern Native Americans can still deal with. With that said, my opinion on the obsession with Reno and whether if he is a "coward" with a disorganized retreat under panic or not is itself rooted in racism. In many films and books, Native Americans are often labeled very quickly as "cowards". But if they stand up for themselves then they are "savages". By contrast, despite Reno's failure in his part of the battle, some are still trying to make out Reno as "not a coward" which to me has a root in white supremancy - the belief that the "Indians are the cowards" but "not the white soldiers". One historian pointed out that the white racism of the time was so extreme that a primary shock with Custer's defeat was rooted in the fact that the prevailing racist belief was that Custer's soldiers could defeat any number of Indians however large it got. As for Hal Moore, I studied Agent Orange and the Vietnam War for decades. In public health courses for an MPH, I gave a presentation on Agent Orange to graduate students and built a model of the dioxin. From having studied the Vietnam War, I am aware that Hal Moore's troops at LZ Albany were largely annihilated - even more so than Reno's men. There is a YT documentary on LZ Albany. The movie "We Were Soldiers" leaves the part out at LZ Albany. I have an in-law who was an Apache soldier for the US Army and served in Colonel Hackworth's counter guerilla unit. He died from PTSD and illness. Hackworth himself blamed his terminal cancer on exposure to chemical defoliants in Vietnam. War is hell. The Apache elders I knew made it clear not to glorify war. As for Custer, his massacre of mostly women and children at the Washita finally caught up with him. The "invincible white supremacist with unsurpassed bravery" lost the battle. Realistically, the size of the battle pales in comparison to the Battle of the Wabash around 1790. But as noted, the obsession with Custer's loss is largely rooted in the racism of the time - the belief that he absolutely, positively, undeniably could not lose a battle as an invincible white supremacist of the 1800s' era of Manifest Destiny. So much for that.
Perpetual victimhood. What a load of crap.
The NA fought a determined battle under inspired and highly competent leadership. Custer was very unprofessional dividing his command, full of hubris and arrogance. He deserved to lose and his men paid the penalty.
Do you all know about 1 or 2 or 3 of Reno's guys had their horses go berserk during the charge towards the village. These troopers therefore went charging into the village on horseback, and they were alone !!!! I am sure they had a very bad day...............but a short one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reno was in shock from losing bloody knife and panics from what I can tell. Where these companies or troops? I thought troops were cavalry and companies infantry, batteries artillery???
Companies officially until 1883. Then troops. But some surviving letters show that the term troop was sometimes informally used before it became official - “Gray Horse Troop,” etc.
What does the archeology digs say about where the battle took place in the timbers? I can understand that we don't know where the river was but casings should still be present
Why didn't Custer have Reno flank around the village to the west and scatter the pony herd, which would have tipped the tribes off balance, distracted, stopping their ability to escape the valley while he recon along the bluffs to the east looking for a crossing.
Minor suggestion - name your video titles in some way to make them more obvious for those trying to play them in order, and to show they are all part of a series. This video title doesn't say it is Chapter 4, while the previous videos do have the chapter number in them.
Gotta say that it was the dumbest military attack in the history of the world....not to mention there was no reason for it! Custer basically fled the battle and then got his ass surrounded and slaughtered....👍
No insults to your ideas.. actually I like them. Pvt Theodore Goldin G co. claimed he brought a message from Cook/Custer .. He never read the whole message .. the last words "we'll soon be with you." It was for Reno but the soldier said he actually gave it to LT Hodgson.. ( I realize proving this true is difficult at best. ) Reno was not familiar with the standard Army way of Indian fighting...I think Custer expected him to charge the village ... when he didn't ( Custer was signaling to him from his elevated location to Charge but Reno didn't understand.) I suspect ( I may change my view if I find more information. but ....) the message ( it arrived about this time) influenced Reno to mount up and charge as he has stated.. Bloody Knife was mounted and close to Reno getting ready to charge too ... but not everyone was mounted and ready .. the gore from Bloody Knife's wound panicked and confused Reno. He may even have thought he was wounded in the head. ( Note Reno's bandaged head) so Reno's fear got the better of him and he started the retreat. I don't know if staying in the woods was a better idea, but I do know that a number of warriors and some soldiers said they could have fought well from there. Message or not.. I think Reno's intention was to charge the village but the death and the shock and gore from Bloody Knife unhinged Reno. Once a rout is started it's hard to stop. Then Benteen doesn't follow orders or common sense and never supports Custer. I think the deployment of Custer's wing shows he ( and his men ) were expecting support from Benteen up until their end.
Thanks for your series.. Nice maps. I think you do a great service figuring out where the River flowed then. I think that miss-location has confused things. .. I'm sure the landscape is not exactly the same as it was.
“That was a charge Sir”
Reno did the best of a F/U situation…
Especially knowing custer was a dunce.
Skirmish lines didn’t last long. They all collapsed. Soldiers were running and shooting as they ran. These were trapdoor rifles and single shot. Soldiers had no where to hide. Very little cover. Soldiers died where they fell. You can imagine the fear these soldiers felt. Each man was for themselves at the end. This is why you find the soldiers scattered about in many areas. There was no command. Many officers were killed early. Many bodies were mutilated and unrecognizable. Reno was an experienced cavalry Officer. There was a lot of confusion going on.soldiers horses were shot from under them. Indians called it a Buffalo hunt. Soldiers were running for their lives. Reno’s command took 41 soldiers at the Timbers.
One question: What evidence is there that the entire Souix / Cheyanne force went to the Rosebud fight ? That may have just been a detachment..
It was certainly not all, but probably most of the village since Sitting Bull went. It is an interesting point for future scholarship.
اللهم عجل لوليك الفرج الامام الموعود القائم بالحق المهدي
Reno could not have held the Timber position, because he lacked the ammunition. Each Trooper carried only 24 rounds of pistol Ammunition and 100 rounds of carbine ammunition-and much had already been expended by the time their skirmish line collapsed and they retreated into the Timber. They didn't even have their sabers, only small arms. Had they tried to hold the Timber, they would have run out of ammunition within 1-2 hours and been massacred. Every officer with Reno who spoke at the Court of Inquiry agreed that retreating to Reno Hill was the only possible course of action, as for how that retreat was executed-it's easy to criticize 150 years after the events and without the noise/confusion/fear/panic of being in a situation like that. Reno saved half his Command, something Custer did not. And I am not a Reno fan, his personal conduct before and after the battle was absolutely appalling. But on that day, I can't say I'd have done anything different.
Just stop the stupid.
The skirmish line is the preferred way to engage with the weapons the 7th was equipped with.
Pistols are good for close quarters, but not against greater numbers....
Reno was outflanked and pushed....
Reno was asked to do a job with insufficient forces, period.
Everything Custer did proves this point....
Custer did not charge a superior force with pistols.
Custer attempted to control the battle field with skirmish lines. And he failed. With more men....
There is nothing to argue. Reno ad his faults, but that doesn't mean he is at fault.
Custer could not handle the numbers he was up against. How was Reno to do so with less men? It's absurd to blame Reno...
At the Rosebud, same thing. The foremost engaged men had to retreat or be wiped out.
Custer is the on that didn't consolidate and fight an organized retreat...
Well said. "There is nothing to argue." I agree, except, once something becomes mythologized, the arguments become pulpit pounding beliefs, rather than well-reasoned positions based upon facts, like the ones you so clearly showed.
Why not just fight in the timber? Plenty of cover and easier to build a defensive perimeter???
Ammo, ammo, ammo.
Watched another analysis of this that made the claim Reno was drunk.
The evidence is stacked in favor of his being inebriated.
@@MilitaryHistory317i bet he got sober pretty quick
@@MilitaryHistory317 Bullshit. If anything, the opposite.
Lt. Benjamin Hodgson was from Philadelphia, PA, and is buried in Laurel Hill Cemetery.
Custer's abandoning Reno's small force of 120 men was not the first time he had done that. He also abandoned troops at the Battle of the Washita in 1868, when Major Elliott and his troops rode off to chase warriors and were wiped out. Custer did not bother to determine their fate.
John. He did send a force out to find Elliot, but it could not get downstream far enough because the natives were in force.
@@MilitaryHistory317 Of interest: In May, 1877, through an interview with Horned Horse as a spokesman for Crazy Horse, a Chicago Times reporter learned that Crazy Horse maintained that the lowest estimate of warriors in the large camp on the LBH was 7,000.
That is not what happened.If you do not know what you are talking about do not say anything at all.
@@mikehunt-fx7sf BWAAAAAAAA-A-AAAAAAAHHHHhhhhhhhhhh!!!
You know. This battle has been debated and debated again until it’s taken on a life of its own. There is one indisputable fact that no matter how people want to spin it, that is true, George Armstrong Custer was an egotistical, arrogant, incompetent commander who got his men killed due to his own stupidity. Bloody knife told him if they attacked the village they would all die. Custer called him a woman and bloody knife laughed and told him they would both be dead by sundown. He refused to take his artillery because it slowed him down, and he left the gattling gun as well. He was ordered by Gen. Gibbon NOT to engage the enemy until the other two columns arrived for support. Custer not only left his pack animals behind with Benteen, but he didn’t know the size of the enemy force, and split his command not twice, but into three columns in the face of a superior force. The hearings after was to try to blame someone except the fool responsible. If you study his civil war record you could easily have predicted how reckless he would be with the lives of his troopers. The fact is Reno was in shock after bloody knife was killed and he was covered in blood and brain matter. Yes he made confusing decisions, but the testimony given at the review said that when his troops started across the river that the Indians were like a swarm of bees pouring out of the village. He stood no chance in that situation and was frankly lucky his men survived at all. That’s mostly because the Indians had taken revenge on the coward who attacked the Washita. They hated Custer with a intensity that was all consuming and their focus was to destroy his command which they did easily. Gall gave an interview later in which he said that yellow hair had killed his wife and children at the Washita. He sated “ my heart was very bad at Little Bighorn and I killed all my enemies with the hatchet”. Oh poor Custer. He and his men killed women, children, and old men at the Washita which in my mind explains the terrible atrocities committed on the solders bodies. I personally think Custer was a coward who killed himself if you look at his wound and how he was found. He didn’t die a noble death he died because he was unfit to command at Little Bighorn. So try to say oh Reno and Benteen should have saved him. Bullshit they didn’t know where he was and if they had tried they all would have been killed. I’d have left his ass to fight his way out too. The only reason they survived at all was because the Indians didn’t choose to destroy them period.
Where to even begin... Okay, egotistical and arrogant, you mean like Sheridan, Crook, and Nelson Miles? The battle was lost before the 7th even left Ft. Lincoln because of the horrible command climate in the unit, which was clearly his fault. Also, he was a great cavalry commander in the Civil War, and his performance in April '65 was brilliant, not to mention his skillful command of cavalry in the Shenandoah Valley. Most of his Civil War troopers adored him, and the few detractors suffered from jealousy. He fell apart after the Civil War, starting with the occupation of Texas. The Indians did NOT know during the battle it was Custer leading the charge. Gall would have no clue during the fighting, only after he had been informed around the campfire. You probably did not know that at the Washita, Custer ordered his Indian Scouts to stop killing women and children and even teased Benteen about shooting a young teen that Benteen swore opened fire on him. Your assessment of the Reno Court of Inquiry is backward. Reno was trying to clear HIS name and called for the inquiry. The court simply damned Reno with faint praise. Oh, he divided his forces! Do you mean like Lee at Chancellorsville, Rommel during the Gazala Battles, Crook one week earlier, who could have been wiped out, Sheridan the cavalry right before Appomattox, etc.?
You know who else left Gatling Guns behind? Nelson Miles. Was it stupid to turn down the other cavalry companies? Yes. By the way, it was Indian culture to commit atrocities. Look at what happened at The Rosebud for starters.
@@MilitaryHistory317 yeah I know that, but they had good reason to hate Custer.
@@MilitaryHistory317 oh man please! Don’t even mention him in the same breath as Lee or Rommel. Yes Lee split his command into not three, but four units at Chancellorsville. He stood facing 160,000 Union troops with 14,000 men and made hooker believe he was going to just oblige him and crush his forces on his breastworks. All the while Jackson was marching his entire corp to destroy hookers right flank, and damn close to his entire army. He knew hooker had no taste to engage him. You bring up maybe his most brilliant battle and compare Custer to him. I won’t even go into Rommel. It’s knowing your enemy, it’s making decisions that are informed by the circumstances and knowledge of enemy dispositions . Custer was warned, and to say gibbon and the entire plan was chaos is just revisionist history as all Custer apologists do. By the way, he was reprimanded by Sheridan for his reckless charges not knowing the force he was attacking. At Appomattox his arrogant ass was almost arrested by James Longstreet for charging into the confederate lines demanding the surrender of lees army. In fact Longstreet told him to get his ass back to his lines or he’d slap him in irons. Brainy he was not. Those columns were exactly where they were supposed to be except for crook who had been engaged. Gibbon arrived exactly as planned and found Custer had violated explicit and direct orders not to bring on a engagement, and was in fact told by gibbon to not try to grab the glory by doing exactly what he did. The simple fact is that if it hadn’t been for Little Bighorn he’d be a footnote in history. I might add that gibbons record during the civil war, especially at Gettysburg far succeeded anything Custer attained. The proof is in the fact Custer’s rank was demoted to Lt. colonel while gibbon retained the rank of general. Libby Custer campaigned tirelessly to make him the big hero but I don’t care what excuses are made. He was in command and he, and he alone bears that responsibility. That is the nature of command. I mean you violate the maxims of war at your peril. Those like Lee and Rommel were brilliant army commanders who took calculated risks. Calculated being the operative word. You take command and you suffer the consequences of your mistakes. As for Robert E. Lee he’s probably the greatest military commander this country ever produced. There’s a reason he was offered command of all Union forces before war broke out. In every battle he fought he was outgunned and hugely outnumbered and he handed the Union army defeat after defeat with brilliant tactical control of the fields of battle. His cause was tragic, but once he went on the offensive he never let up. His ability to know the character of his opponents was uncanny including Grant whose moves he anticipated and moved to frustrate. The seven days is almost unbelievable in how he defeated the army of the Potomac. I mean in the end the battle will be argued till history finally moves it into the dustbin. It’s his troopers I think about. As for him I could care less. One thing I’ll never concede and that’s if Reno and Benteen had tried to reach him there would have been no survivors period.
Shoulda known it was over once Crazy Horse arrived 😂😂😂
Count COUP???
Are you SIOUX??
Are you CHEYENNE??
Please describe how your comment is relevant in any way, shape, or form. You certainly seem like the life of the party.
@@MilitaryHistory317
The comment is relevant as a direct response of your utilization of the term coup. As for being the life of the party it all depends on the party and the party all depends on who's throwing it.
Good question white's don't count coup? Inappropriate comment.
I believe I had read that Marcus Reno had personally supervised moving Indian women and children to safety during an earlier engagement, and was left spared by the Indian forces at this battle.
I don't believe the natives knew in particular who they were fighting.
Custer = coward battle of the Little Bighorn , forever , 💀👿
Interestingly, not one of the indians camped at the village had a pair of clean underwear, either before, or after the battle. Their lack of hygiene may have caused nausea among Custer’s men.
You blaming Reno is absurd...why do you all hold on to the romanticism around Custer as if he could do no harm? Custer sent Reno into a hornet's nest with no back up...Custer's orders for Benteen were also dumbfounded.
You misidentified a photo of Capt. Myles Keough as hodgeson.
I wonder why they just didn’t stampede that huge piney herd straight through the village?
Because this wasn't a silly hollywood movie.
@@brg8960 😂😂😂😂😂 Ok.🤷 I just think that would have been the common sense thing to do. Since that is what the arikara’s were supposed to do anyway. (Run the pony herd off) But I firmly believe that Bloody Knife and his men. Got distracted by Blood Lust once they saw the women, children and old ones digging wild Turnups. Especially since Gall and all his buddies continually harassed and beat up Bloody knife in their youth. So once they recognized who it was they went for them. Instead of going to the Pony Herd. Hollywood movie or not. Custer should have kept everyone together. Stampeded the Pony herd through the village. And followed right behind them with the whole Regiment in a Wedge and Charge completely through the Village. Indian testimony even states. That For a Short time Custer had the village completely at his will. They stated that he could have rode completely over top of them. Instead they let the warriors wake up. Get to the pony herd. Mass, then use their #’s to obliterate Custer. But quit being a Troll!
@@matthewhicks1725 Once again, the mythology will not die. The Arikara were not supposed to stampede the herd, but scout for Reno. They did go off to steal ponies, and were successful. Custer did not know where all these things were, as he was still in recon mode. You can't hatch a plan until you know the layout and the enemy forces. he did not. All these ideas come out of knowing all we know. But they did not. Indian testimony is all over the place. Read Michno. He has worked thru it as well if not better than anyone. Custer never had the encampment (made up of three villages) at his will. That is complete ficrtion. Read Wagner's "The Strategy of Defeat at the Little Big Horn:" it will walk you thru the entire battle. As I have said, we know what happened. No mystery. No mythology. Just another horrible battle that in the end, had little significance. On that day Custer messed up. it happens. Look at Lee in Gettysburg
@@brg8960 I think the Indian Accounts are pretty spot on. Why wouldn’t they be? The whole Custer waving the Hat from the Ridge deal. In my opinion was not a approval of Reno’s Decision to Dismount. But a “Get your ass in there and do what I told you to do!” Moment. Charge the Village. Send everything into chaos. However if Reno would have did it that way. It wouldn’t have worked. I don’t believe he was drunk enough yet to make that mistake. He didn’t have enough men in my opinion to charge deep enough into the village. And he knew it. Once Custer saw that the Village was Stationary. And Reno had dismounted. He should have withdrawn. But his ego drew him into believing that he could pull off the Washita Move. But He simply didn’t listen to the scouts. Regarding the complete enormity of the village. And he died for it.
Indian testimony states that the timber was defensible, and wondered why Reno retreated. Until that point, only a few troopers had been killed.
Reno’s contention that he was waiting for Custer to follow him makes no sense. The plan was obviously a Custer hammer and anvil. Reno distracting warriors from Custer’s hammer. Reno panicked, and wrecked that plan.
Rino was flanked, that's is when the plan succumbed to facts on the field.
Custer did not bring the weapons needed for close quarter fighting. Reno could not charge a superior force with range weapons.
Reno did not have enough men to hold the timber.
The strength of the Seventh Calvary was long range fire power. Their tactics were long range tactics.
There is a reason the seventh was constantly trying to establish firing lines to control the battle field. The indians were constantly undermining this tactic for good reason on their part.
Reno needed either enough men to form an L shaped line to prevent flanking, or enough men to also attack the pony herd.
In short, Reno needed Benteen at the start.
I don't see how staying in the timber would have helped the situation. Probably no action could have saved the Seventh, once the engagement had begun. But we know Custer saw Reno's skirmish line from the bluffs above. His only way to help Reno was to attack from another direction to draw away some of Reno's attackers. But he could not attack soon enough from his position. I wonder if is possible Custer decided then that the only way to escape disaster would be to capture the women and children of the village.
If Reno had ordered a hasty retreat instead of setting up a skirmish line, and Custer saw that he had no anvil, he might have retreated as well.
(Reading more on the subject, I found out that Custer gave Reno his assurance that he would back Reno's charge up. But he moved against the village using the hills to hide behind instead. Given his experience at the Washita, it seems quite possible that Custer used Reno's troops to take the brunt of the fighting, while he moved behind to capture the noncombatants. Not a bad strategy. but not one a commander is likely to spell out to his subordinates.)
First, how many indian braves were engaged at the Timber fight?
Second, while dividing your forces to surround an Indian camp was standard tactics, retreating from Indians, without establishing a covering force was suicidal.
Interestingly alternative would be if Benteen was in charge of the timber fight.
Course that would leave Reno still on the scout to the left.
@@gilbertkohl6991 this is absurd, assuming that Reno should not have retreated without a covering force is poor logic.
The reason he was retreating was he had insufficient forces to control the battle field. If he had reserves to cover the retreat, he would have had reserves to cover his flank making the retreat unnecessary!
There are only a few options:
Reno was a weak coward and should have never been in charge. In that case Reno should have went on the scout and Benteen should have taken Reno's place.
The problem is Custer made that dectand Reno did not show himself to be a coward previously.
Custer had Reno engage too soon before he could get in place for his attack. Again Custer's decisions.
Reno never had enough men to take control of the battle field he was tasked with. Again, Custer made the decision on force deployment.
Or Benteen was too far out of position to lend support where needed,again Custer's decisions..
Custer's force that was wiped out was bigger than Reno or Benteen had, so how were they to do more with less, especially Reno who was the first too engage and begin using up his resources. Benteen covered the most ground prior to engagement.
The short of it is, Custer tried to do too much with too little, without enough reserves to deal with the chaos of contact with the enemy.
Custer was not the only one to get spanked by the tribes, the battle of the rosebud lends insight to this battle.
Custer should have used actual scouts to make Benteens scout,keeping more men with his main force. Reno needed enough men to not get flanked and ideally, attack the pony herd and scatter it... Then Custer would own the batty field. But that didn't happen.
Blaming Reno or Benteen is pure rubbish.
Reno didn't retreat to the trees because he had control, he retreated because he was flanked. It is not like he didn't understand tactics, he understood he was flanked without reserves and had neither the firepower or mobility to correct the situation. The trees and the river crossing were acts of desperation from a situation he did not create.
There is some evidence that Custer hung Reno out to dry. Intentionally or not.
Custer was known for his bold attacks in the civil war. But he did no deep raids into enemy territory. His bold tactics were supported by friendly Divisions that he could count on for support, and supply lines managed by the army he was attached to
Custer stuck his neck out too far and had it lopped off.
If Reno had stayed in the trees Benteen would have had to stop and cover his retreat and still not support Custer in time. Or ignore Reno, charge after Custer leaving Reno to his fate and that pack train exposed with no significant force to join up with.
There is nothing to indicate that Benteen would have rescued Custer instead of sharing his fate and dooming Reno and the pack train to also fall...
Imagine if Crazy horse had all of Custer's rifles, pistols, and the ammo in the pack train?! Terry may have been in deep trouble!
I believe we should be careful with terms like “obviously” because we’re looking at the battle in hindsight. An attempt at Washita 2.0 seems obvious to us, but was that made clear to Reno. I think all he got was instructions to attack and he would be supported. That's vague.
Let me fix your erroneous Title for this video: Battle of the Little Bighorn, Episode 4, Reno's Charge and Reno's OTHER Charge." See what I did there?
Excellent presentation-- Everything that could go wrong went wrong at the LBH- Custer had no business going in to battle after marching soldiers and horses 78 miles in 24 hours - sending men into battle with 100 bullets and no idea if the pack train is coming or for who knows it may be under attack - hard to believe these decisions came from a West Point graduate-- men and animals were beyond the point of exhaustion - Benteen hated Custer on one account Benteen young daughter took sick and Custer refused Benteen leave to go be with the sick daughter whom shortly died - Reno hated Custer and Custer was just recently brought back on board as Renos superior- Reno and Benteen despised each other but got on the same page after LBH for their mutual interest - 7th was as dysfunctional as you could get - Custer knew the size of the Indian village Custer had no respect for the Indians- It is doubtful in my opinion the Indians outgunned Custer as i believe the Indians expended most of their ammo at the Rosebud they overwhelmed Custer by shear numbers and veracity of power -- especially after the 100 bullet allotment was gone it was over quick - Reno pulled up dismounted and organized skirmish line- did that big ditch just ahead as Reno mentioned at the inquiry have anything to do with that - Reno sent two dispatches to Custer after Cook and Keogh left Reno at the crossing - Custer put Reno in a tough spot and According to Reno no orders were relayed back from those two dispatches- Custer ordered Benteen off left oblique on a wild goose chase in extremely rough country on completely exhausted horses -
I do think defense of the Timber might have held the Indian's attention while keeping them from going after Custer. Soldiers in the Timbers was a greater threat to the Indian village than troopers retreated to Reno Hill and digging in were! Once Reno retreated there, the Indians could have given full attention on Custer because by Reno digging in there and so far away from the village, the Indians just need a small group to keep an eye on him. Others could go after Custer which is what the Indian accounts say they did. Also by holding the Timbers, Benteen could have joined him and routed the Indians attacking him there by attacking them from behind and routing them. Instead Reno joining Benteen on a defense that the Indians were not concerned about did NOTHING to aid Custer ! So agree Reno should have established a defense and held it in the Timbers so that Custer could have captured the women and children and held them hostage and ended the fight.
Reno was a disgrace and should have been booted out of the Army !
The timber could have been held. Even with terrible retreat. Reno lost most of his men retreating from the timber.
And the Officers that concurred were paid off in one way or another to say so. Either literally or figuratively in a way to shelter their feelings of guilt. Reno has political guardians his whole drunken post civil war service.
No and I repeat the timber could not have been held. The troopers were low on ammunition at the time of the retreat. The amount of ammo they had going across the Little Bighorn would limit their combat time to about 45 minutes in the firefight they got into with the Indians. Rate of Fire has to be maintained in order to hold ground, Reno's command did not have the ammunition to hold. The fire in the woods was to chase out what was left of Reno's command, the Indians shot down a number of men trying to escape the fire. Reno's command was back across the Little Bighorn was almost totally out of ammunition. So, I do not know how they could have held off near 1000 warriors with very limited ammunition, no one at the time thought they could hold the timber line, this is a total misconception of the Reno battle (trying to hold the timber line).
@@Tellgryn You can't convince those that have an agenda based upon what they want to be true. Beliefs, sadly, win out over rational thought. flyingirish is simply repeating the Libby Lies that, for some strange reason, refuse to die.
Please don't use that stuff you use to fly around with when you are making comments. Seems like you know more than all the other arm chair generals making comments.
That was meant for flyingirish31
@@neilsquitieri6990 you mean the facts? Yeah, sticking with those.
Always well done sir...
The reason the battle was lost. Cowardice by Reno. He should have stayed in trees and waited for reinforcement by Benteen and possibly even Custer that could have swept north, taken the non-combatants and used them as human shields to get them warriors to retreat or even surrender. Washita 2.0.
Instead his cowardice and Benteens petulant pokiness ended up causing total defeat.
Yeah.. I agree. Benteen could have been the hero .. but his distrust of Custer clouded his judgement.
In hindsight “Washita 2.0” seems to be what Custer had in mind. But he didn’t brief his subordinates on his “concept of the operation.” I don’t believe Reno and Benteen really understood “the commanders intent.” Little fragmentary orders like “Attack and you will be supported.” Or, “Hurry up, bring packs,” seem clearer through hindsight.
Petulant pokiness, lol! Custer was detested by his staff especially Benteen. I've had mortal enemies at work, if they were in a fatal accident I would have rejoiced (a corrupt, criminal lazy ops manager ). When a boss is hated, no one will risk their lives for him
@@decimated550 a: you’re a disgusting human to think that way.
B: a lot of Custers men liked him.
C: Benteen was a petulant child that day. And always acted that way around anyone he didn’t like. And Custer was in charge. He was under his orders.
Native Americans would have butchered them in the woods. They would have appreciated the natural environment as cover.