Five (frustrating) NHL predictions for 2024
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2024
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Chapters:
0:00 I think these predictions are realistic
0:50 Chicago Blackhawks win draft lottery, Pick FIRST again
2:51 Arizona Coyotes move to Salt Lake City, guaranteed expansion
5:39 Atlanta granted NHL expansion, 3rd try
8:24 NHL awards SAME teams MORE outdoor games
10:59 NHL misses out on more marketing
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#nhl #hockey #sports - Sport
My argument in favor of expansion is that the fanbases are not the problem in either Arizona's or Atlanta's cases. It's ownership and in Arizona's case politics that are the problem. I have no issue with the NHL going back and doing right by markets that didn't work out in the past if there's the right ownership and arena situation in place.
As for the dilution argument, I like the incentive this gives the league to infuse serious cash into youth hockey in order to pack the talent pipeline. It's been exclusively a rich kid's game for far too long now, let's open the floodgates and make sure that all potential talent gets a legitimate shot.
Good comment. I'd say Lacrosse is more of a rich kid's game, but equipment for hockey is more expensive than baseball, football, and basketball, that's for sure.
Great idea for youth hockey. I live in L.A. and I like Brodie's idea for Roller Hockey in warm city markets as well.
@@michaelalley214 For youth play it would be great. In cities like Raleigh/Durham, Tampa, Dallas and the outlying areas surrounding the metro areas you could get a lot of kids playing and starting out doing some roller hockey. The inline game is a perfect way to make up for the cost and difficulty of getting ice rinks in more places. Just like how soccer academies get the youngest kids into the game and moving up the ranks in tiny towns in Argentina and Italy, etc. If someone has talent they can transition into playing on ice in a more competitive setting.
Needs to be player growth in the United States and even countries like Germany that are getting better at hockey. Need some specific goaltending focus too. That's how you get 36 teams playing.
My sentiments are generally against more expansion but I have to admit your points about youth hockey are good ones. I've noticed this as a problem across many sports. I'm a racing guy in the summer and the big leagues are great at taking by way of licensing and other fees but lousy at giving by investing back into local programs.
@@michaelalley214 Atlanta had the Atlanta Fire Ants roller hockey team back in the 90s. The league disbanded.
One frustrating NHL prediction for me is that the Fanatics uniforms will flop. No reason for me to trust that they'll get it right
If their work with MLB is any indicator, most definitely.
I think for the first year they're gonna not change it too much and it'll be like the adidas ones. But then production will drop off a cliff. That's just my feeling though.
Atlanta as a market is significantly different today than it was in 1999. The metro area has doubled in size and has a large number of northern transplants. The majority of the Thrashers STH base is where the new arena is planned to be, so that also puts us in a much better location. In short, it's a lot closer to where existing hockey fans are in a metro area that has exploded since the days of the Thrashers.
I just saw the news by Elliotte Friedman. Congratulations on the announcement to formally pursue an expansion team.
NHL to Atlanta
Chicago getting the Original 6 benefit? Look at the luck the Detroit Red Wings have had in the lottery in the last decade!
I would like to see a yearly Sharks/Knights game in Lake Tahoe. Reno will always be Shark town for the simple fact they hate Las Vegas.
I’m from Reno and like the Knights
Here's one frustrating NHL prediction from me, regarding NHL jerseys: The NHL says "No" to having teams wear white at home games on a permanent basis, and inexplicably has them continue to wear dark at home. Call me crazy if you want, but I've always believed that if you have the home team wearing white all the time, you get to see different colored road jerseys on a nightly basis from different teams.
Atlanta never got a fair shake with any ownership group. Tom Cousins sold the Flames to the highest bidder in 1980 (to Calgary for $12 million) because he was losing money on his real estate ventures.
The Thrashers had chump change for most of their existence, fought for scraps in 1999 exp. draft (anyone remember Patrik Stefan?), only made the playoffs once (and got swept), and on top of that, there was a botched sale to David McDavid in the early 2000s (any Thrashers fan will tell you how bad Atlanta Spirit Group was).
There are many parallels between the Thrashers and Athletics in that they could've been successful if the owners just invested. ASG only cared for the NBA's Hawks. It should be an all-too-familiar story, the assumption of "Oh, they don't care because there's a bunch of empty seats", when bad ownership is the real issue. The Thrashers actually outsold the NBA Hawks in avg ticket sales the majority of their existence.
I could literally talk to you for hours about the Thrashers' history, but let's talk about why ATL's getting a third try:
1. VGK wins Stanley Cup in their 6th year, who doesn't want in? VGK's story is the exact opposite of Thrashers.
2. Vernon Krause & co. are building an NHL-caliber arena where ticket sales were highest for Thrashers. Shovels are almost in the ground for this deal and it was county approved. A Thrashers game trip to and from downtown wasn't the best; think Braves before & after Truist Park relocation.
3. Market size, market size, market size. Atlanta is a top 10 metro pop city without an NHL team; 6 million people. The NHL would rather go there again for way more prospective money than less guaranteed money in Quebec City. USD is more stable than CAD, also.
4. The ECHL's Atlanta Gladiators' "Thrashers Night". The owners of the Atlanta Gladiators literally got permission from the NHL for the team to dress as the Atlanta Thrashers. They even managed to bring Thrash, the literal Thrashers mascot, out of hiatus. There was also a rebrand about 5 years ago where the team got Thrashers-esque uniforms. The NHL knows first-hand that Atlanta wants the Thrashers back.
Yep, the Thrashers outsold the Hawks 7 out of 11 seasons.
I'm in Atlanta, went to plenty of Thrasher games, and still wear a Thrashers #17 Kovalchuk hat.
@@angelo8424 Fun times. Looking forward to their return. Kovalchuk was fun to watch.
@@willp.8120 Me, too, but it's proposed to be built in Forsyth County- Gone are the days when it was so convenient to use the free Park & Ride, and jump on a train for $3 or $4 round trip, for both the Thrashers and Knights games.
@@angelo8424Well, I live not too far from Alpharetta so this will be closer for me. I didn't mind going downtown but a lot of people did. Id park at Dunwoody station (North Springs was always full) and ride the train to Five Points, transfer to the blue line for one station. I'd usually eat at the food court in the CNN Center and people watch all the Thrashers jerseys.
Feel like we’re definitely getting a definitive answer on the Coyotes situation by the start of next season at least. It’s either they announce a new arena plan with a date set in stone, or a relocation. It sounds like owners are finally fed up, and the players have started speaking out about it. They can’t go another year of this uncertainty being up in the air.
That’s how I feel.
It won't even take that long, the deal will be settled this summer.
I think Shane Doan was the glue holding that organization together.
Atlanta failed because of ownership. Not the market. Atlanta was never at the bottom of the league in attendance. In fact, there were multiple years where they outsold traditional markets that were underperforming, yet most people ignore this. In a market like Atlanta with 4 teams plus college sports competing for everyone's attention, you need to give the city a reason to show up to the games. The Thrashers peaked at getting swept in the 1st round of their only playoff appearance in their entire existence. It's incredibly dishonest to called Atlanta a bad market for it's low attendance when they couldn't even win a single playoff game in their entire existence. People love to forget that Tampa, Carolina, and Nashville were similar situations to Atlanta, but they got owners that actually cared about the team and turned them into winners, turning the markets into a thriving successes. Meanwhile, Atlanta Spirit was trying to sell the team as soon as they bought them. If Atlanta was lucky enough to have owners that cared about them, then it would've been Arizona moving back to Winnipeg in 2011. Not Atlanta.
It is crazy that people think that hockey can work in Raleigh and Nashville, cities a third the size of Atlanta, and then in the same mindset think that hockey can't work in Atlanta. It's irrational thinking.
Atlanta did better in attendance than most people think.
IN EIGHT SEASONS (8), the Atlanta Flames:
-Had higher attendance than the Pittsburgh Penguins 6 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the Chicago Blackhawks 6 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the Detroit Redwings 4 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the Los Angeles Kings 4 seasons.
In ELEVEN SEASONS (11), the Atlanta Thrashers:
-Had higher attendance than the Phoenix Coyotes 8 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the New York Islanders 8 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the New Jersey Devils 5 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the Anaheim Mighty Ducks 5 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the Washington Capitals 5 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the Nashville Predators 6 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than Chicago Blackhawks 5 seasons.
These are also the reasons both teams left, both having to do with ownership.
The Flames left because the owner, named Tom Cousins, who owned Cousins Properties, a local commercial real estate company, began having financial problems in the late 1970s (after the Flames had been around about five seasons) when the Federal Reserve Bank raised interest rates. When this happened, other companies who wanted to build things were being denied loans, given the effects of higher interest rates. Cousins Properties could not acquire enough contracts, and thus not enough capital to keep it afloat. Tom Cousins wasn't a deep pocketed owner, and his company's stability was predicated on continuous building. So, in order to save the company, Cousins decided to sell his only asset that could provide him enough cash to prevent his company's insolvency. He sold the Flames. Since he needed a lot of money to save his development business, he sold the Flames to the highest bidder, just which happened to be an interested owner whose intention was to take the team to Calgary. Ted Turner wanted to buy them team, but because he owned two other teams, the Hawks and Braves, the NHL would not allow him to buy the team. There were other interested buyers, but because they did not offer as much, none of them were chosen for sale.
The Thrashers' story is a bit more complicated. In 1997, Atlanta was awarded a franchise. The owner was Ted Turner, under Turner Sports. At the time, he had recently sold the Braves, thus allowing him to own an NHL team (because he could only own two teams). However, Turner sold the team, along with his other sports assets, the Atlanta Hawks and Philips Arena in earlier 1999, even before the Thrashers played their first game. He sold them to Time Warner. About a year after the sale, Time Warner merged with AOL (America Online), the largest internet service in America at the time. I don't know how old you are, but they offered dial-up Internet. Here is the issue with that. It wasn't but about two years into the sale that AOL-Time Warner were losing money because people were dropping dial-up Internet rapidly for cable Internet. AOL did not transition quick enough to outcompete competitors, such as Comcast. As a result, AOL-Time Warner became shaky as a company. In order to secure some capital to make them more profitable, as well as to mitigate losses, the company decided to sell its sports teams. Another reason they did so was because with the company's fledgling status, it threatened the stability of both the Thrashers and the Hawks at the time and their long time success. If they had sold them to about any other buyer, the Thrashers would still be in Atlanta. However, they sold them to a group who was only interested in the Atlanta Hawks. The reluctantly bought the Thrashers only because it was the only way for them to get what they wanted, the Atlanta Hawks. From the start, this ownership group, known as Atlanta Spirit Group, a group of businessmen from different cities around the country, wanted to get rid of the Thrashers. In fact, they were ready to sell the moment they acquired the team. What prevented them from doing so is that there were two owners within the group who did want the Thrashers. Mind you, these two owners represented only about a fifth of the owners, as there were at least ten of them. Atlanta Spirit Group, despite the two owners' objections were about to put the team up for sale, but the sale did not happen because the owners who wanted the Thrashers filed a lawsuit against the other owners. For the next six or seven years, the owners were suing one another. The lawsuits cost the ownership group a huge amount of money, making them unprofitable. What's more, they mismanaged their money and handed out huge, unheard of contracts for certain players on the Hawks. This made them even more unstable as an ownership group and made them lose more money. This resulted in the Thrashers selling off most of their good to decent players, and when the ownership group made it known that they did not care about the team, many of the fans lost interest. Even with all this going on, the Thrashers never finished last in attendance. Speculations regarding the owners selling the team crescendoed after the courts decried that that the owners could sell the team. As a result, attendance plummeted in the second half of the last season, as people figured that they were trying to move the team out of Atlanta, and many realized that the owners did not care about the team. During Atlanta Spirit's tenure of owning the Thrashers, they hardly even marketed the team. You could hardly find a billboard advertising for them around the metro area, but you sure saw plenty of Atlanta Hawks billboards, hundreds in fact. This is because Atlanta Spirit wanted to tank the team by lowering the maximum amount of fans who attended games to justify a reason to sell them when they would be allowed to sell the team.
Atlanta Spirit did not take seriously any sales to interested parties who would keep the team in Atlanta. Tom Glavine wanted to own the team, but they denied him. There were other groups who came forward, but when they saw the stipulations on the sale, they balked. You see, Atlanta Spirit Group never intended to keep the team here in Atlanta. They even wanted the team out of their arena. One of the owners was later even outspoken and upset that during the Thrashers stay they outsold the Hawks most seasons and that the Thrashers tended to attract a lot of white suburbanites that the Hawks had trouble attracting. Stipulations for the sale were that the new owner could not receive any revenue on concessions or parking, and they had to pay an exorbitant arena use fee to Atlanta Spirit Group. These stipulations were so outrageous that no owner who wanted to keep the team in Atlanta, at Philips Arena, the only Atlanta arena the NHL at the time said was big enough for the team to play in. Thus, in essence, Atlanta Spirit Group forced the team out with nowhere to play. Their stipulations for sale made it where no one would risk such a situation, as that would bankrupt any team. And since the NHL said they could play nowhere else, Atlanta was left with a situation whereby if the team stayed, they'd have to play in Philips Arena and the owner would take huge losses by these sale stipulations. As a result, no one bought the team, and since True North Sports had just been denied the sale of the Phoenix Coyotes, the former Winnipeg Jets, given Glendale agreeing to fund the Coyotes, they then looked to Atlanta and took advantage of the situation, a situation not brought on by the fans but a crooked ownership group.
Hockey in Nashville has worked really well in the long run since it's inaugural season. However I've always believed that the fans of the Thrashers got screwed over. I wasn't opposed to Winnipeg getting the Jets back, but think it's BS that it was the Thrashers that got moved. Especially with the Arizona situation. But now they're talking about the Jets moving already, I'd love if they moved back to Atlanta and became the Thrashers again.
Thank you for posting this. I was a Thrasher season ticket holder from franchise start to finish. You nailed the explanation!
I don’t think success is guaranteed, but a strong ownership group & business plan, such as what both Vegas and Seattle have, would give the team a very strong chance of success.
@@dan4346
I have no doubt in my mind that it will be a smashing success.
The only way the preconceived mindset can be changed is to inform people of what happened. There has been a lot of misinformation out there based on ignorance with regard to why the Thrashers left. This has influenced what people think of Atlanta hockey support, but the Atlanta sports market in the league. Yet, it ignores the circumstances of what happened, or the facts of how good a sports market the Atlanta area is these days.
I disagree. I don't think they should get a 3RD CHANCE when there is so many other deserving markets that want teams, i.e, Houston, Salt Lake, Quebec City, Hamilton, Kansas City, Portland, etc. Feel Me ?
I’d like it if they removed the Stadium Series to be honest. I miss when the Winter Classic was the outdoor event of the NHL we all look forward to. Having like 3 a year just makes the Winter Classic not as special anymore (that and the fact it’s the same teams every year).
The NHL did that to Minnesota, moved the team and less than 10 years later, a new team and a new arena came. And the pitcher throws from the same point to the same point every pitch. Lot easier to track. Harder to fit that sensor on a puck that moves around the entire sheet of ice. That explains the 20 year gap
The NHL didn't move the North Stars, the league had nothing to do with it at all. The owner was losing money and was blocked by the arena owner (the City of Bloomington, MN owned the arena) from ever making any upgrades. He tried different ways to get out of that deal, but couldn't. He was blocked by politicians from trying to build a new arena in Minneapolis (St. Paul did NOT want that). So ultimately, his hands were tied and it was either sell the team (again, as he had just purchased the team few seasons prior, this time a significant loss since he'd have to share the information he now had with prospective buyers), move them, or fold. And St. Paul got what they wanted once the North Stars left, which was a brand new arena in downtown St Paul for the Wild to play in. Now Norm Green was an asshole, that much is not debatable, however I don't actually place all the blame on him for moving the team. There were so many political forces working against the team that it was pretty much inevitable. Much like the issues that the Coyotes are dealing with now.
I feel like hockey is too fast to have metrics all over the screen. I love the stats in-between whistles
Apparently for arizona and mullett arena their original “rental agreement” ends the 25/26 season (even though i could’ve sworn it ended the 24/25 season) and then they also have the option to extend year by year. No way the board of governors wants that to go on for like 6-7 years.
The board likes money, and the Yotes are cash flow positive at Mullet. That's the only thing that matters.
No, do not put player stats above the player during the game! That is the most annoying thing during play to see the name above the skater. Absolutely not.
the sport itself i feel needs to be more accessible to new players, the gear (esp for kids) the cost is insane and keeps getting more and more expensive, it's a hard gatekeep imo vs other sports like basketball, football, or soccer which requires less gear and is more affordable. When those numbers go up and more interest in hockey goes up then they can think about expansion.
Bay Area native here, loved your point on roller hockey. Growing up I got into hockey through my dad (Who was from Canada) and learned to roller blade because it's all I could really do. Ice arenas are nice but they are few and far between as well as being pricey for someone trying to casually get into the game. Roller hockey can be learned and played in just about any parking lot or street. The barrier to entry is lower and allows people who may not neccessarily have all the money to get into Ice hockey a way to enjoy the sport locally.
As a Minnesota fan, I am continually offended & disappointed by the fact that we have Hockey Day Minnesota yet the Wild don't play an outdoor game that day. I am also split on the earlier game times. As someone who works 4 10s I find it frustrating to have to make dinner during games some nights based on when I get home. Something I would personally like to see more of is free OTA games again. Not TNT, not ESPN or the streaming services. Just have it accessible on TV. Right now the only way to even have access to NHL is by subscription via one way or another.
The Wild do play every year on Hockey Day Minnesota they start the game at 8 PM an hour later than their usual time for night games
@@michaelleroy9281 Yes but they play at the X.
Do you think the NHL should consider more semi-neutral site locations for the outdoor games to widen the variety? ex. Lightning/Panthers at Camping World in Orlando, Carolina/Nashville at Neyland Stadium, San Jose/Seattle at Autzen
If the Predators cold play a game at Bristol, they’d own the all-time hockey attendance record in the world if they could sell it out.
Great topic! Definitely I favor of more teams to 36 ... this would lead to 6 divisions of 6 teams each. Focus more on regional rivalries. Potential new teams of Houston, KC, SLC, Atlanta and Quebec City, (why not Sacramento). The NHL lead with adding a team in Vegas and will probably lead with expansion to 36 (and then 40)
Atlanta is the logical metropolitan area for this hockey gap much like the isolated Los Angeles market until San Jose and Anaheim were added in the 90s. They have plenty of Northeasterners that have moved into the region even since the Thrashers have left.
Would like to see more western teams in the Winter Classic - or just make the All Star Game an outdoor event.
Just move the Coyotes to Atlanta. They can play at Gas South until South Forsyth is done. Gas South is where the ECHL team plays which is in Duluth. Gas South can fit 11,200+ which is more than Salt Lake because Delta Center has obstructed seats. Atlanta can fit in the Central maybe not ideal but Arizona wasn’t ideal either. People don’t understand the popularity of hockey and lacrosse in the Northern Suburbs of Atlanta.
How the heck would you have an outdoor game in Arizona or Florida? Its stupid hot in those places.
They shouldnt even have teams, tbh.
Humidity is a bigger obstacle than heat for ice. But understand your point.
Afternoon hockey games are very market specific. They work in Boston, and Philadelphia. Tampa will play 1 or 2 afternoon games at most, over the course of the season. Sometimes they play zero afternoon home games. In the Winter in the Sun Belt, because of the mild weather, people have things to do during the day. 7pm starts work best down South.. Canadian teams rarely play any home afternoon hockey games for whatever reason…Hockey Night in Canada. I was very happy to see that Columbus will finally host an outdoor hockey game at the Horseshoe. My understanding is that a large part of the reason for the delay was on Ohio State and not the NHL. Buffalo deserves another outdoor game too.
I agree with the roller hockey thing. I started playing with Roller blades in the early 90s with Mario Lemiux being my all time fav player and the Penguins being my team and still is however the Kraken are now my 1B team. Growing up in Utah we had ice and ice hockey but I enjoyed roller hockey more.
The lottery isn't rigged. There's literally no way it could be with the way it's conducted nowadays. What I'm annoyed about is the Blackhawks not even getting a slap on the wrist for the Kyle Beach saga. They should lose their first round picks for 10 years and be stripped of at least their 2010 cup.
Thanks Brodie, could not agree more. Please keep the hockey content coming.
One thing you have to keep in mind re. NHL expansion. NHL has 7 Canadian-based teams. MLB has one. NBA has one. NFL has zero. Thus, there are more US cities without NHL teams than without NBA / MLB / NFL teams.
I’d like to see the NHL do more with rivalry games. I grew up in LA, and love my LA teams. I really get into the California Clasico between the Galaxy and the Earthquakes, with even a special trophy as the prize. I’d love a similar Kings/Sharks rivalry series. I think it would be great for both markets, and help promote west coast hockey. It could even be expanded to a Kings, Sharks, Ducks, Knights event every season.
What happened to the puck tracker that we had as kids. Watching from the TV many people struggle to follow the puck, and hockey is getting faster, doesn’t help.
Hi new to your channel and I'm very glad you're a sharks fan :)
Regarding the Coyotes. If they're gonna move then move them to Canada. It wont happen because Bettman has a very obvious bias against Canada but the fact QC still doesnt have a team is mind boggling to me. You could put a sustainable and profitable franchise in QC, Halifax or even Regina or Saskatoon with ease. Hell you could throw another team in the GTA and it do fine I am sure. Instead he is insisting on bailing out failing franchises that he would probably force to move out of Canada if they were in the same spot.
For an American major sports League... 32 teams is enough!
The NHL who is hanging on trying to Stave off the MLS for the top 4... needs to focus on strengthening its existing 32 markets!
Imo: Only relocations should be considered at this point!
Atlanta had their second ownership application for an expansion NHL franchise submitted today. There are now two groups in Atlanta vying for a team.
Krause Sports Entertainment Group (Vernon Krause and South Forsyth's "The Gathering at South Forsyth")
Alpharetta Sports and Entertainment Group (Anson Carter and the City of Alpharetta's arena plan as part of the North Point Mall redevelopment site).
atlanta can get in line. sd is getting their bid ready and has big $$$'s in kroenke behind it-arena and all. nhl loves the $$$'s and kroenke has plenty of it. atlanta or sd with two teams up the road? sd wins. a fresh market (not a recycled one) with no major competition outside of padres.
I come from a famous US hockey family but live in CA so I had the same issues actually getting on the ice…so I played soccer and indoor soccer in old rinks. Played indoor soccer as if I was playing hockey (checking into the boards, cleaning up in front of the goal etc.) and if there was a “sin bin” I would have lead the league in penalty minutes served.
I heard that the attedance in Florida for hockey was a problem. I'm a Devil's fan living in Orlando, but Tampa is one of the most attended arenas in the country, and the Panthers are in the middle of the pack. The Sharks, Blue Jackets, Jets, and Coyotes should have heavy consideration for relocation prior to expansion.
The sharks? The sharks were in the playoffs for practically 20 years straight with a finals appearance and several western conference finals appearances. Always filled the arena as they should have. Let them complete their first rebuild since the 1990s before people start talking relocation 😂
I don't think he was referring to Tampa Bay, rather the Florida Panthers. They had been fairing less than ideal, but that has changed over the past couple seasons.
The Panthers’ attendance issues are still far too recent to be considered solved. They’re 1 average-bad season away from being right back in the basement attendance wise.
As someone living in Utah right now I don't really want to see the Coyotes move up here either, at least not permanently. I mean, they are an interesting young team with a real chance to be good in the near future, but I'm unimpressed with the ownership. I think we can do better here. I'd rather get an expansion team, and I'm pretty sure the group that's pushing to get the NHL in SLC would rather go that route, too. On the other hand, the situation in Phoenix is likely not sustainable for as long as it's going to take in order to get a new place built there. So why not do a variation on what you said here: Let the Coyotes come here for however many years it will take to get their new arena sorted out in Phoenix, but with the understanding that they will move back to Phoenix as soon as they can. Then reward SLC for taking on an orphan like this with a spot at the front of the line in the next expansion, whenever that is. SLC then has the incentive to push forward with their plans for a better arena, which they may well get sooner than Phoenix can sort themselves out so the Coyotes might be the first team to play there, and Phoenix gets to keep their team as soon as they can figure out where to put them. They could probably even still play a few games every year at Mullett arena to help keep the local ties alive.
I live in Utah. I’m beyond excited for an nhl team. I’m all for the arena downtown (or at the point). However I do not want the coyotes for any length of time. That organization is bad luck!
But why does that matter if they're only here temporarily? I can still go cheer for the Bruins when they come into town, and watch them play against other good teams as well. I don't have to care if they are any good or not. I worry just a little bit because I don't know exactly how they managed to wear out their welcome so completely in Glendale, but if a few years of the Coyotes can help get us our own franchise it's worth it even aside from the chance to go to NHL games in the mean time.@@Dnt461
I mean I think in the long run it doesn’t really matter. Utahns will attach to whatever and enjoy the team if it’s an expansion or coyotes move. They’ll get rebranded probably anyways.
Grew up playing hockey in Jersey and have been living in Atlanta for going on six years. Of course expansion here would be heavily scrutinized, but the fan base is absolutely there and I do earnestly believe it would be a huge success with the right ownership. It’s a far better market than Houston and is the 7th largest TV market in the country.
Hmm...I know that the NHL doesn't like that huge market void between Nashville, Carolina, and the two Florida teams (there ARE a lot of people in that space), but I think there would be more of an imperative to establish a Texas rivalry first - all other things like population being more or less equal. Bring back the Trashers yeah, but Houston has a way bigger catchbasin for peripheral fans and TV markets if you throw in New Orleans, San Antonio, and Austin...I don't think the Coyotes' real problem is money at this point. It's shame and embarassment thrown at them from the rest of the league for playing at the Mullett (even though I kinda like watching them play games there). People keep blaming the team. Government at all levels in Arizona is notoriously bad - corruption, political feathernesting, Balkanized spite between the various suburbs. The lie still gets perpetrated that the Coyotes didn't pay their taxes in Glendale. Glendale keeps that lie going. The taxes were paid late, but they were paid - every dime. Glendale tried to lock the team into an abusive long-term lease at the Desert Dumpster, and hockey balked. Glendale claims it makes more money with monster truck shows and tractor pulls, but a look at their calendar of events shows otherwise. Glendale is a redneck outpost that the Coyotes are lucky to be away from. On the other hand, what kind of a place NIMBYs out a trash dump to prevent an arena complex from going in?... 😖 ...Hockey asked them for public money to remediate the dump. That's all. Then a bunch of Screaming Mimis get together and woke mob the thing to death in Tempe. There are things called extenuating circumstances that make things go awry. When you do business in Arizona, those come with the cacti. But at the end of the day, it's a great place to do business - once you've run the gauntlet...
I really like your idea of going back to promoting roller hockey in warm city markets. In the 90's there was an outside hockey venue at a park here in the Glendora/Covina area. I went to an Anaheim Bullfrogs game in a roller hockey league game where the Ducks play. There was real youth interest and I believe it could be so again! Sometimes it seems the NHL is really bad at promoting the sport of hockey outside their league games. Great Take!
Detroit hasn’t played an outdoor game since 2017. Doesn’t exactly fit the argument of “same teams every year” argument.
Of course, Houston gets no team AGAIN. But you are the best.
Brody ! Things in league would project good financial and attendance would shout now for Houston and Quebec for problem cities Arizona and Winnipeg! First before expansion!
YES on roller hockey. I grew up playing roller hockey in a non-traditional environment (Kentucky Throughblades). It’s cheaper, you can mix it up with ball hockey, and you can hook lower socioeconomic folks (I was one of those kids). I swear something like pro beach hockey would do well enough if managed properly.
Expansion only makes sense if the amount of games in the regular season goes down.
yotes to slc-YES. Just got to get dirt bag owner out of the picture.
central division-
colorado
chicago
dallas
minnesota
nashville
salt lake
st.louis
winnipeg
I think there should be outdoor games for all Candian teams every 2 years. I think we need a game in Banff or Jasper, Brodie's hub idea is solid so you can have 2 weekends with 3 games each
Fully agree with spreading the love to teams who haven't played or played minimal. As a Flyers fan I would be overwhelmingly happy to not ever see us play a S-S or W-C ever again! At 1-6-1 or was 1-4-1 yeah please let's be done with Philly it's so depressing to see us lose every frickin time. I would love to see more original 12 or perhaps some more west coast or Florida even.
The Chicago draft one, you don't have to go back that far to the Penguins and Sid. Not only was Mario aging out, the team filed for bankruptcy. And coming off a lockout the league had to orchestrate rules governing the lottery. At least one of the rules only served to push Pittsburgh to the top of the odds.
Atlanta has a huge adult league presence and a very strong youth league presence as well. The fans are here and we are waiting.
Completely disagree about the outdoor games. The sheer number of them now is the reason why they don't matter anymore, or feel like an event. If they really wanted to get more fans, theyd find a sponsor to stream it on youtube for free and remove a barrier of entry for kids....
Just look back to 2015 when Buffalo and Arizona had the best odds for the first pick then out of left field, Edmonton comes and gets it. Which was their 4th first overall pick in 5 years. The NHL tries to sway things in a certain way.
How would they pull off an outdoor game in Florida or Arizona?
If day games are on the West Coast, that's fine because the 10pm start time is impossible for me on the East Coast, but I like my team playing at 7pm. I see plenty of families and from what I've seen a lot of kids love staying up late to go to games.
It's already a dog fight to make playoffs with the 32 teams now, if they did expand, they also need to relegate 4 teams every season. And I don't want to have to give up any of my guys to expansion.
You have a problem with Chicago getting the #1 draft pick two years in a row, but this wasn't a problem?
2010 Edmonton #1 Taylor Hall
2011 Edmonton #1 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2012 Edmonton #1 Nail Yakupov
2015 Edmonton #1 Connor McDavid
They need to bring back Roller Hockey International
Any thoughts on an in season championship like the nba? Maybe ending with winter classic
You covered a lot here, and I appreciate that! Lots of good points too.
1. Will Chicago win the #1 pick again? Maybe. But two years in a row is, in my book, a coincidence. You need at least three to become a pattern - and I don’t see today’s Blackhawks having lottery success year after year like the Edmonton Oilers did in 2010-2015.
2. I don’t know what happens to the Coyotes. For the fans, I hope they stay there. But they’ve been thrown so many lifelines that I really can’t blame the league or club if they move.
3. On expansion, the league should absolutely NOT consider expansion. Not only because of the playoff format (which, I agree, works) or dilution of talent (which IS happening to a small degree - in players, coaches, and officials), but primarily because of scheduling. If you keep an 82 game schedule and a home-and-home plan against the opposite conference, which I think they should, a 34-team league only leaves 48 in-conference games, averaging 3 apiece. Those in-conference rivalries are already weakened, this will weaken them further.
Points 2 and 3 considered, I believe Atlanta should remain a possible destination for relocation. They are not a market missing a fanbase. The way they lost the Thrashers was really an insult to the fans - there was all this talk about the Coyotes possibly moving back to Winnipeg, and at the 11th hour the owners of the Thrashers raised their hand and said “I’ll do it!”. Caught everyone off-guard. That was a reflection on ownership and several things done wrong there, not on the city.
4. For awhile, I thought the outdoor games became tired and its time to put the brakes on them. But my team (Devils) participated in the Stadium Series this year and the impact on the fanbase was intense. I wouldn’t want to deny another team of that. But I agree 100%, that the same teams shouldn’t be getting that outdoor experience over and over - it loses its luster for the team fans and it harbors resentment from league fans. But of course they will continue to offer games to the same clubs, because the league has grown stale and predictable like that.
5. As with the outdoor games, league marketing is stale and predictable, and laughably third-rate. The promotion and production is B-Tier at best. (The All-Star events and the awards shows border on unwatchable - yet the thing fans care about - THE IN-PERSON DRAFT - is going away). My home team network (MSG) doesn’t even have a constant shot count in the scorebug, much less other measurements. I get it that RSNs are struggling right now, but this is where the league can and should step up and help make the product as best as they can. The only consolation here is that the merchandising for the NHL is just as laughable as it is for the other pro sports leagues. (Thanks, Fanatics).
Thanks for letting me vent in your comments. Overall I think the NHL needs a refresh, which comes with new leadership. Gary Bettman has done a tremendous job over the years, but it’s time for a new perspective.
Macklin.celebrini.big.deal.with.blackhawks.
Chicago gets the number one pick if they win the draft lottery as a Blackhawks ❤fan that's OK with me
@@michaelleroy9281 Can’t argue with that. If they win fair and square, fine. My issue with the Oilers was not with the league but with the team. They had all those picks and couldn’t turn them into success for so many years.
Just give Quebec city and Hartford their team back
The outdoor games have become so irrelevant. There's too many and it's just not a big deal, anymore. Watching an outdoor game is like driving by a McDonald's. "Oh look there's another one, no big deal..."
What? You liked the Lake Tahoe game... They literally canceled the game till 12:30 at night. It came back on a different TV channel. The entire thing was a disaster.
loved it. they ABSOLUTELY screwed up trying to do it during daytime hours. sun + altitude + blue skies of any Tahoe day were entirely predictable. next time.. drop the puck soon as the sun goes over the sierras... beautiful sunset into the 2nd period.
As a flyers fan that game was brutal to watch. So brutal!
Good job Brodie.
Honestly the slap on the wrist for Chicago covering up a scandal, them tanking, and being rewarded so fast compared to teams like Detroit. Sure the draft lottery is pure chance, but there has to be a better system than this
In regards to each of these
1. Here's the best case I have against last year's draft was rigged. If it were rigged, don't you think the Coyotes would have won it? There was that Tempe election for the proposed ne arena, and having Connor Bedard would have definitely been instrumental in getting those to pass.
2. Speaking of the Coyotes, this is a team, with ownership, that has kicked the can down the road again, and again, that when the Tempe vote failed last year, the can rebounded and hit their foot again. I've said that shovels needed to be in the ground over two YEARS ago. The NHLPA isn't keen on playing in a College arena any longer. It must end, and now, it's relocation.
3. Atlanta. If there will be expansion, it will be like when the NHL expanded to 30, just this time to 36. The three leading candidates will be Atlanta, Québec City, and whomever doesn't get the Coyotes between Houston and Utah. Also, the idea of awarding a conditional expansion franchise to Arizona as a consequence of relocation, with the condition of a new arena is more than reasonable.
4. Outdoor games. Florida is going through the best stretch in franchise history. I wouldn't be surprised to see an all-Florida Winter Classic or Stadium Series game in 2026.
5. I have nothing to say here.
outdoor game at Whitehorse
In my view the only league that needs to expand at the moment (out of the "BIg 4") is the NBA & in their case they only need to expand by two teams which are Seattle & Vegas. Seattle in particular deserves the Sonics back after having turned Key Arena from a dump into a world class facility in Climate Pledge Arena. The NBA in my view absolutely owes Seattle a return of the Sonics after how they left Seattle for OKC. As for Vegas there is plenty of money from the casino companies to bring a team there it is just the NBA's unwillingness to share T Mobile Arena with the Golden Knights that is getting in the way of that.
Watched Celebrini in person as he plays for my Alma mater in college hockey, hes the real deal. I hope he goes to the Sharks. But we know draft lottery is crapshoot
As an Islander fan, I agree with staying the love with outdoor games. They only played 2 (2014 & 2024) and both were against the Rangers. The worst part about it was there was a Winter Classic in Citi Field, yet it was Rangers v Sabres & sure too the Rangers lease, Sabres were the home team. To put it into perspective for California fans, it would be like the Sharks hosted a game vs the Kings in Anaheim Stadium.
Edmonton had three #1 picks in a row starting in 2010. Chicago getting two in a row is not that unusual.
The Thrashers issue was never fans, it was dysfunctional ownership and losing the lease on the arena.
The Chicago thing is why I hate the lottery. Just give the worst team the first pick. Yes I know about tanking on purpose, but you know what really sucks, having an awful season then not getting that first overall pick and the knowing the light at the end of the tunnel is another season away, maybe… maybe…
They would have good ownership this time and the arena will be in the northern suburbs where the fan base is. The Thrashers were so bad and so poorly ran. At what point do fans have to keep supporting garbage? I don’t blame the Oakland A’s fans for not supporting their garbage ownership either. I also don’t think they should expand either.
Brodie, here are the facts on Atlanta.
1) Atlanta is the SIXTH most populated metropolitan area by population in the USA as of 2024. It has passed Miami, Philadelphia, and Washington within the past three years.
2) Atlanta is the SIXTH largest media market in the USA.
3) Atlanta has the EIGHTH highest GDP amongst metropolitan areas in the USA.
4) Atlanta has a huge corporate presence: (Coca-Cola, UPS, the Home Depot, Southern Company, Georgia-Pacific, etc.)
5) Atlanta, in terms of media network presence, is third behind New York and Los Angeles. It is home to CNN, The Weather Channel, Cartoon Network, TBS, TNT, Boomerang, and TCM.
6) Atlanta currently is the home of the hockey night coverage on TNT. The studios pre and post game are from Atlanta.
7) Atlanta has grown almost a million and a half people since the Thrashers left town. The population is now at 6.4 million people.
8) Atlanta never lost its teams on account of fan support. Both were on account of ownership mishaps. (More on this later.)
9) Atlanta bested Chicago Blackhawks in attendance 11 out of 19 NHL seasons, an original six team.
10) Atlanta has an arena that is set to begin construction in September. It has a potential owner who owns the land on which it is set to be constructed. The land has been cleared and is currently being graded. The county has agreed to pay upwards of 40% of the costs of the arena. It has already been given approval. A new freeway exit is being constructed right near the new arena site.
11) Atlanta has great sports attendance in all its other sports. Atlanta United of the MLS is first in attendance and has always been first attendance since they entered the league seven years ago. Atlanta Braves of the MLB was fifth in attendance out of 30 teams last year, and it probably would have been second if the stadium were as large as those that were 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. The Falcons finished in the top half of attendance even with multiple years in a row with losing records. The Hawks are at over 99% capacity in attendance.
12) Atlanta is far larger than other cities that do well in the NHL in the same region. Atlanta is over three times the size of Nashville. It has far more northern transplants than Nashville. Atlanta also outsold Nashville six out of the eleven seasons that the Thrashers were in Atlanta. Atlanta is over three times the size of Raleigh-Durham and they had the second highest attendance last year. Atlanta is over double the size of Tampa Bay who had the third best attendance last year.
13) Atlanta held a "Thrashers Night" last week and had an easy sell-out despite the team having the worst record in the ECHL.
Great breakdown. I’d love to see Atlanta back in the league. A better expansion process should also give them a good starting base.
Who the hell is going to read all of that? You do realize that no one here is in the position to build an arena and buy a team in Atlanta?
@@tracymoon4437
It's already happening.
The Forsyth County Board of Commissioners have already approved it, and Vernon Krause is the potential new owner who owns the land where the arena is being constructed. The county officials have had multiple meetings with NHL officials. The NHL gave approval for the ECHL Atlanta Gladiators to use the NHL-trademarked Atlanta Thrashers uniforms for a Thrashers night, likely because they plan to re-enter Atlanta and are doing so to ignite the fire in people in the area who were upset after Atlanta Spirit Group, LLC destroyed the team.
Also, I broke it down for everyone to read using numbers and not jumbling it all together, so as to make it easy and for people to take the time to read it.
@@IronSikh44
Absolutely, not the terrible expansion draft they had in 1999. Give them a Vegas Knights, Seattle type of draft.
@@tracymoon4437
County officials have already approved the arena. The land has been cleared. The potential owner owns the land where the arena is set to be constructed.
I agree. Once a month Frozen frenzy is a great idea.
the only one I agree with is the Hawks get the #1 because we all know
Would someone in Houston please step up to lure the Coyotes there please!
Nope. Deal with it.
Please take them. Utah wants an expansion team
@@Dnt461 Nah, staying in Arizona is where they will be. But thanks for playing.
From a Marketing opportunity, have a 'mic nite' where the microphones above the ice is broadcast instead of the color commentators. Make it a pay per view feed and watch the cash roll in.
I think San Jose Sharks will get the number one pick over all
As long as potential ownership stay quiet, they get the team, whether it bring a relocated or an expansion franchise. Utah group in that case did it wrong.
Won't be Utah. Rather, Atlanta or...* gasp* Quebec City!!
Well, Arizona, Florida, Tampa, and the Stars aren't exactly on a goof climate that holds ice that well without it melting within half a day...... maybe in an indoor football stadium, but not an outdoor stadium.
Arizona is a hot mess and the politics of that state will cost them the Coyotes. Moving them to SLC is perfect. NHL doesn't need to expand and the inflation is hurting the fans ability to afford to attend games and it's only going to get worse.
13:30 As someone who lives in the Atlantic Time Zone (one hour ahead of Eastern Timezone), I would love it if more West Coast games would be held in the afternoon. My son is a Sharks fan, but in our timezone, the games only start at 11 or 11:30 pm... It's not easy for him to follow his favorite team!
Where are you, Nova Scotia or New Brunswick?
NB @@willp.8120
Are you near Frederickton or Moncton?@@andreaudet
Why not just change frozen frenzy’s name to hockey day North America have it tie into the already existing naming system they already use and do it twice a year once pre All-Star game and one post all-star maby also use special uniforms make it more of a event
“the NHL wants to acquire/generate new fans” Because of revenue sharing, the player cap, with the right ownership, the NHL will be profitable in any big market American city.
Amalie arena sells out every game. I can’t speak for the panthers but the lightning are doing great in the Florida market.
Great Video. I agree with you. I think that Chicago will likely win Draft/Macklin Cellibrini. I know that Chicago will be a good chance randomly, merely because of their record, which is the way it should be & not only because Chicago is one of my favorite teams. I also agree with you about others, especially Atlanta getting A Third Chance At Hockey (are they going to be called The Atlanta Third Time's A Charm team? LOL). Gary Bettman is even growing tired with The Arizona Coyotes Project (& he wants them there). Let me know what you think
I'm not saying the NHL is rigged. However, if you look at the lottery, who gets the calls, and who gets the outdoor games (the exact same teams). IT'S RIGGED.
I’m really hoping to get a team in Utah and will shout for joy if it happens! Though I do have to say that I’d be really sad for fans in AZ losing their team if the Yotes ended up relocating here. I can’t imagine how awful it’d be to have my team ripped away like that.
I think we need a new Pro Inline Hockey League for NHL players to do during the off season
Concerns over expansion markets in comparison to other leagues does not really make sense.
Consider that the NHL, with 7 Canadian teams only has 25 American teams. NFL is in 32 US markets, the NBA has 1 Canadian team and 29 US markets, and MLB the same. That means, just in terms of market saturation, the NHL basically has 4 additional markets it could expand into to contrast with the other pro leagues in North America. I mean, consider the markets that other leagues are in that the NHL is not yet; San Diego, Portland, Salt Lake City, Houston, San Antonio, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Memphis, Cincinnati, Cleveland, New Orleans, Oklahoma City. Now consider even untapped markets like Vegas was when the NHL was the first in there, like Austin Tx, Louisville Kentucky, or somewhere in Virginia, not to mention Quebec City and a second team in Toronto or Toronto area (seriously, how does New York have essentially 3 teams and Toronto has just 1).
That is a LOT of potential markets for the NHL to expand to. I think 40 teams is quite realistic.
Milwaukee is the most galling. Women's hockey (Womens!!!!) is big in Wisconsin, and they don't have an NHL team yet. That's a crime.
Not if the League comes to its senses and continues to withdraw from the sun belt. There is more demand for the NFL and NBA than there is for the NHL in most American cities.
Major League Baseball, the NBA, and the NHL should all have NFL Red Zone-like broadcasts once per week where all the teams are in action, the schedules are staggered enough so that there's always a game with action, and they can dip into and out of each team's local broadcast at any time based on in-game drama, and league-standings implications, for a seven-to-nine-hour commercial-free broadcast for games throughout the league. Now, that's a package worth paying for.
As a Canadian.... This is the third video of yours I have watched and I've like them all except for that last comment.
You want the NHL to do what where and who with roller blading?
😂.
Sorry, but that is dumb.
But funny.
Maybe you were just trying to be silly.
Good one.
Come visit a place where it doesn’t snow. You’ll see why wheels are important to growing the game. Now go back to your tim hortons 🤣
@@brodiebrazil Watch your egotistical American MOUTH!
Wait, Florida teams with attendance issues? What's the issue of the Lightning? Thought they were doing well in attendance. I have been out of the loop, fill me in.
I see the Panthers getting 19,000 for some games
@@michaelleroy9281 exactly
Also the nhl needs to expand to reach others including nfl fans looking for a different sport to watch. Including the outdoor games, they have to do more outdoor games. U have to peak the interest of other markets, like do an outdoor game with the teams from the class of 67. Do winter classic in LA or even in AZ
NHL is expanding.
Expansion: Yes, very diluted now.
Anyone remember oilers winning the first pick 4 out of six years, At one point three straight years?
expansion is going to happen in all the leagues over the next few years so the NHL will be keeping in line with the rest of the leagues, and most important the owners love money. BTW maybe if the sharks ice a roster that is deserving of a outdoor game maybe they get another
I don’t see anything wrong with the hawks getting another 1st overall, the oilers got a lot of 1st overalls until they drafted McDavid
It's not a lottery, Gary already knows who he is giving it to.
Atlanta has loads of transplants from more Northern climates, so I think it probably wouldn't be a bad place for expansion despite the history. However, they are planning on building an arena there waaaaaaay the heck out of the Atlanta core, which I think would doom this third iteration almost instantly. And I agree, Brodie, not an optimal time for expansion. Yes, Vegas and Seattle were pretty successful expansions, but that doesn't mean this will continue.
The location of Atlanta's new arena is a good spot, considering it is in the middle of where the highest concentration of hockey fans are in the metro area.
Before the Braves moved to the suburbs they looked at where their season ticket sales were coming from and chose to build in an area with high season ticket sales. The area around downtown Atlanta near Turner Field had sparse season ticket sales. The Braves have seen an increase in attendance since the move.
A lot of baseball and hockey fans did not like going to downtown Atlanta for a game, namely because it was perceived as unsafe, you were constantly asked for money by panhandlers walking from the parking lots to the arena, or you had to potentially deal with strange characters if riding the MARTA train. Furthermore, traffic into downtown Atlanta stays high volume until over 8 pm which meant during the weekday it was hard to get to the arena. While there is heavy traffic up Georgia 400, it tends to move faster than the downtown connector, and a lot of the hockey fan base lives in the area, and many work in the area, too, as there are many high tech offices jobs, corporate jobs, retail, etc. in the Alpharetta area.
@@willp.8120 I agree re. suburban arenas. I like lots of (cheap or preferably free) parking and getting in and out quick. In Toronto, the Jays, Raptors, and Leafs all play in the heart of downtown. All three get great attendance numbers anyways, but still.....hassle to get there by car.
I’m not saying it’s rigged, but I’m saying it’s rigged by not saying it’s rigged. Great logic.